Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darth_Serenous 10-20-07, 05:28 PM	My players arn't the ones who like to broke the rules. And I want to change some rules to make the game more fun and intense. The first thing I wanna change is the spellcasting system. I wanna make it a "at will" and not "per day". Why? Because its hard to explain in game why you can only cast Magic Missile 2 times at first level. Even if you rest 8 hours by reading or meditating, you still need to wait for tomorow. Another thing I wish to modiffy is more feats and skills per level. Maybe add 2 Class skill at first level (to the choice of the player) except for the Rogue and the Bard) Those feats would be relative to the background. And for the feats it would be 1 for 2 levels (instead of 1 for 3) And what about a Ability score augmentation like in SAGA? (2 points at 4th instead of 1) I need your oppinion
Kaligrad 10-20-07, 05:37 PM	If you want to overpower your PC's, you go right ahead. Just remember that villians with NPC classes should have these advantages too, and that they might end up being overpowered when compared to their foes. And from what I've seen, player enjoy more difficult challenges where they might lose than easier ones where they kill everything without difficulty.
Ddraiglais 10-20-07, 05:39 PM	My understanding of the Vancian system is that the spell leaves the mind of the wizard. With more experience, the wizard can retain more spells. I am all for any spellcaster to be able to cast their spell limit every time they rest for eight hours. I would let the rogue and bard get more skills too. That's the big way they balance those classes. If you want ability scores and feats to come quickly, then that is your choice. However, you may end up with very powerful characters. The easier way to augment characters' abilities in the game is through magical items. That way if you are too generous, you can find ways to take them away. The bottom line is that it is your game. You can change what you like. I think the 4th ed magic system will be more like what you are suggesting. My biggest recomendation is to not let your players get too powerful too quickly. The game becomes boring for them and frustrating for you if they have too easy of a time with encounters.
twiggyleaf 10-20-07, 05:59 PM	I have always been a big supporter of house rules and I never complain about any DM who decides to play differently from official guidelines. In relation to your system with spells, I'm sure it can work fine although I find the "Daily quota" system seems to determine its own natural breaks in game flow that suit both me and my players. I also used to have your view of feats when I started using 3.5. However, after a couple of years of play as both PC and DM, I feel that the balance is right, especially when you get to higher levels. What I do is offer an extra feat to palyers when they start, just so players can get into the swing of their characters a little bit sooner. Some DMs I play with offer the same thing as a local flavour, i.e. people from a certain world get an extra feat from that world. A couple of us talked about changing the feat acquirement to 2 levels instead of 3, but I notice that it has never been introduced into any of our games and I think it is because they all feel, like me, that when characters get past 5th level the feats to ratio level starts to even out better. However, I do agree that these things are the DM's decision, and as long as everyone at the table is having fun, official rules remain merely guidelines.
Senevri 10-20-07, 07:20 PM	The thing is, house rules change balance. Making spellcaster abilities at-will is usually a huge, huge boost for them, and they're already by far the most powerful. Give them a wand of magic missile, if they're feeling useless, instead. Read Unearthed Arcana variants from the SRD. Check out my house rule ideas from my .sig. Check out the "Unearthed Arcana & Houserules" board.
Ultima0071 10-20-07, 07:45 PM	If all your players have spellcasting classes, then go right ahead. Though, if you have more non magical classes, you will get some ranting. A wizard that can cast the wish spell an unlimited number of times per day is TOO powerful. Wail of the Banshee already kills and the Gate spell is amazing. You could just allow your spellcasters to gain an extra feat or something.
Darth_Serenous 10-20-07, 08:18 PM	My current party is made of : A NPC rogue (will die soon), a Druid, a Fighter (Dwarf) and a Cleric... And I just remembered why SAGA use a +2 ability bonus. Because there is no official magic or other way to boost them. So nan... And just to make it clear, the "at will" wont be realy "at will" but more like Mana system or a Cool down system...I dont know... And of course the NPC will gain those advantages too! And the main reason Im doing this, its because I want to make a lvl 2 PC fight a CR5 monster with a little challenge. Ok...maybe I should work on a Spellcasting system...I just want it more cinematic-like...
StevenO 10-20-07, 08:38 PM	I believe advanced feat selection and increased stat bonus were both mentioned in an article on the main page at one time. They aren't such a bad thing IF you're playing in a magic poor world otherwise they are a powerful thing at higher levels. Increasing the skill points (and selection) for all the classes EXCEPT rogues and bards is UNACCEPTABLE. Doing so negates the big benefit of being a rogue to start with so unless you are trying to drive out the skill classes don't do it. If you were to raise skill points I actually believe a rogue should get a bigger increase than the rest so it can remain the "skill" character. Making spellcasting "at will" should never happen. Even many of the wizard/sorcerer combo classes (one class, not Ultimate Magus type) wouldn't come close to matching to potentially abusive and destructive power of that idea. Spells per day and spells known are designed in part to keep casters from being an even more important part of the game. Instituting that rule would make playing anything other than a spellcaster an excercise is futility. If you want a "caster" who can use his abilities "at will" you should pick up the Complete Arcane and look at the Warlock.
Roog 10-20-07, 10:09 PM	And the main reason Im doing this, its because I want to make a lvl 2 PC fight a CR5 monster with a little challenge. If this is your main goal their is a much simpler solution. Reduce the abilities of the monster to reduce its CR, or increase the level of the party. In fact, since I just want it more cinematic-like... the best solution would probably be to increase the level of the campaign, D&D feels more cinematic at higher levels, so just boost all the PCs to level 5 (or whatever number works best) and go from there.
deanruel 10-20-07, 11:20 PM	Honestly Darth? House Rule it up buddy. Obviously before you implement anything huge give it a brain storming session and see if it causes any huge rifts. But generally speaking you can do pretty much whatever you want and as long as your a competent DM things will turn out great. Want to make stats increase by 2 every 4 levels? No problem. Do it dude. And if you are so cautious that you want to counteract even a small change like that then maybe double the cost of any stat increasing items. Want to make more skill points. Do it dude. Give everyone another skill point a level or maybe even two. Or just the people you think need it. Won't alter the game much here. Want more cinematics? Action points baby. Actions points are awesome for cinematic stuff and a really good reason to pick up the Unearthed Arcana. Now the infinite spellcasting thing is a bit trickier. If you have Unearthed Arcana they have a recharge variant in there that isn't bad. Or you could just base everything off the Warlock. Essentially strip the Warlock of all of his specific class features, replace them with feats or whatnot and then just say that ANY 1st level spell can be a least invoc, and that ANY 3rd level spell can be a lesser invoc, etc etc etc. Basically as long as you give your houserules a few minutes of thought to take out any GLARINGLY obvious rulebreakers and are willing to think on-the-go you can houserule like MADNESS and everyone will have tons of fun. Don't worry about it so much and don't worry about what the ultra-conservative board goers say. Do your thing. I promise it'll work out.
Absynthe_minded21 10-21-07, 12:04 AM	I've always felt that the spells per day system was twisted. Instead of granting your players limitless spells however, try merging the mage and sorceror. Give them the mage's spells per day limit and the sorceror's ability to spontaniously cast any spell in his "book" For clerics still requiring them to prepare spells is a good idea, but allowing them to spontaniously cast spells from their own domains, instead of inflict/cure, will give them some flexibility. Maybe allow them to spend turning attempts for additional spells too, (one turning attempt nets you a first level spell, two attempts get you a second level spell...)
Shadowhowler 10-21-07, 12:15 AM	I would say DON'T add these house rules... This is out of character for me, being that I have in my DMing history made many MANY house rules. However, you said in your OP that your players don't like to change it up and mess with the rules. Therefor, the changes you want to make for 'more fun' will likely result in LESS fun as they irritate your players. House rules are cool only if your players are on board, for the most part.
Sinfire Titan 10-21-07, 01:21 AM	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/rechargeMagic.htm That is as close as it will ever get. Good Luck.
molten_dragon 10-21-07, 07:42 AM	You're changes aren't necessarily bad, but will have some effects on game balance you might not have thought of. Giving more skill points to everyone but the rogue and bard will take away some of what makes those two classes special. Even Giving more skill points to everyone will take away some of what makes the rogue and bard (and to some extent the ranger) special. This is because the ratio of skill points gets lowered. Normally a rogue gets 4 times as many skill points as a fighter or wizard (8/level vs. 2/level) If you give everyone two more then a rogue will only have 2.5 times as many skills as a fighter or wizard (10/level vs. 4/level). Upping the number of feats does the same thing to fighters. Everyone will have more feats, and since feats are the only thing fighters get, it makes them less unique. As far as spellcasting goes there are three options I can think of. First is to use a point-based casting system (one can be found in Unearthed Arcana), Second is to use the recharge magic system (Also unearthed arcana, although this will have some balance issues, because the PCs will be able to enter every fight fully healed). Finally, would be to make up something yourself that mechanically looks something like the Warlock (unlimited uses of the powers they have, but a VERY limited set of abilities), but feels more like a standard wizard/sorcerer. As far as changing the number of ability score points given, it won't really affect balance between the classes, just give slightly more powerful characters overall.
Darth_Serenous 10-21-07, 01:09 PM	the best solution would probably be to increase the level of the campaign, D&D feels more cinematic at higher levels, so just boost all the PCs to level 5 (or whatever number works best) and go from there. Nice solution...but how mae the players get 4 level and lot of money in one shot. We are in the Temple of Chaos. So maybe the Chaos just boost them...any idea?
wizarddog 10-21-07, 03:59 PM	As far as the spells per day issue, why not rule that Wiz can regain their spells as the time allows to memorize spells and do not need rest of 8hrs. Sor and Bard can regain spell slots with the same prep. Clerics and Druids can pray to regain spells at any time. That way they can regain spells or change them within a 30min-2 hour ratio. Then create feats that cut the time down. :cool: For skill points you could give an overall +1 circumstance bonus to all the PC's skill rolls per level on skills they put points in. So a Fighter could put ranks in a cross class skill and have it increase without having to expend so many points on it. The skill monkey classes would become even more valuable.
JackSnape 10-21-07, 06:19 PM	Nice solution...but how mae the players get 4 level and lot of money in one shot. We are in the Temple of Chaos. So maybe the Chaos just boost them...any idea? Make up a deck of many things variation that has no (or only minor) downfalls, make all the cards: go up 1 level, gain 10k gold, gain 1 feat, Gain +1 magic weapon, etc. Let the players play some kind of game with an NPC to get the cards, or just chose a predetermined number. This will raise your party as a whole, tho you will probably end up with some level/wealth differences. You could also just have them find a lot of treasure, and give them a lot of XP for fighting easy monsters :) As far as spells per day goes it wouldn't be game breaking to allow L0 spells or spells 4 spell slots below you're highest level to be cast at will, but at will low level spell casting is problematic because it steals the thunder from the fighter types when they normally are able to shine. . .
Roog 10-22-07, 07:53 AM	Nice solution...but how mae the players get 4 level and lot of money in one shot. We are in the Temple of Chaos. So maybe the Chaos just boost them...any idea? Re-imagine the characters as the level they need to be. There will be a small continuity error whatever you do, after all the point of changing things is to make things different; but the characters will still be the same people in the same situation. Boosting the characters is no a larger change to the game than changing the rules to boost them. Just give them all enough XP to get from level they are to the level they need to be. As for equipment, that's are slightly more complex question. Ideally, I would leave them with their current gear. If they really need better gear, let them spend about half the wealth by level for their new level on improved versions of their current gear (i.e. the same items but of better quality or with stronger magic).
Derren S. 10-22-07, 08:01 AM	My players arn't the ones who like to broke the rules. And I want to change some rules to make the game more fun and intense. The first thing I wanna change is the spellcasting system. I wanna make it a "at will" and not "per day". Why? Because its hard to explain in game why you can only cast Magic Missile 2 times at first level. Even if you rest 8 hours by reading or meditating, you still need to wait for tomorow. Another thing I wish to modiffy is more feats and skills per level. Maybe add 2 Class skill at first level (to the choice of the player) except for the Rogue and the Bard) Those feats would be relative to the background. And for the feats it would be 1 for 2 levels (instead of 1 for 3) And what about a Ability score augmentation like in SAGA? (2 points at 4th instead of 1) I need your oppinion Some important things about houseruleing 1. Know what you are doing. And I mean really know as in "be sure how it will affect the balance and that you won't regret it later". Many times a houserule which looked good at first glance turn out to be worse than the raw. 2. Only change as little as possible. Having a huge list of houserules to track is a pain. 3. !Very Important!. It is always better to substitute something existing than to invent something new. For example in your case replacing the wizard/sorcerer with the Warlock could be better than to invent a new spellcasting system. Psionic instead of magic would also work. For clerics you can use the Favored Soul and add Turn Undead instead of the cleric. Its still Vacian spellcasting but imo a bit better than how the cleric casts.
Yami 10-23-07, 12:56 PM	Nice solution...but how mae the players get 4 level and lot of money in one shot. We are in the Temple of Chaos. So maybe the Chaos just boost them...any idea? How about they gain some temporary "positive" levels somehow? they're then reduced back to their ordinary level after certain conditions are met. Having a known time limit on this buff would definitely increase the urgency of getting this tough battle over with!