Changing a Lions Shield into a Ram Shield...any advice? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changing a Lions Shield into a Ram Shield...any advice? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lxarth
05-23-05, 02:27 PM A PC just aquired a Lions Shield, but the PC wants to change it into a "Ram Shield".

I don't just want to say no, but looking at this item it is a specific item with pretty concrete abilities. My players is good enough to just accept it if I can it can't be done, but is it possible to change an existing magical item like this?

The reason he wants to do this is because his character "sysbol" is a ram. He even has a ram horned helm, and I was almost gonna just make it a "Ram Shield" to begin with, but it is alot funny to have a player try himself to change stuff instead of me just seeding the world with items to help the party.

Another question...the Lions Shield does 2d6 damage, does anyone know where they came up with this?

Also...when someone activates the ability of the Lion Shield, does he lost the shield benifits like one would if useing a Shield Bash attack?

Thank for your help!
Sternenschwinge
05-23-05, 02:45 PM A PC just aquired a Lions Shield, but the PC wants to change it into a "Ram Shield".

I don't just want to say no, but looking at this item it is a specific item with pretty concrete abilities. My players is good enough to just accept it if I can it can't be done, but is it possible to change an existing magical item like this?

He could sell it and pay a mage to one with the same Abilities at his own design. Will be expensive and take time, but hey, if it's so important too him... . :P

The reason he wants to do this is because his character "sysbol" is a ram. He even has a ram horned helm, and I was almost gonna just make it a "Ram Shield" to begin with, but it is alot funny to have a player try himself to change stuff instead of me just seeding the world with items to help the party.

Another question...the Lions Shield does 2d6 damage, does anyone know where they came up with this?

Also...when someone activates the ability of the Lion Shield, does he lost the shield benifits like one would if useing a Shield Bash attack?

Good question. If you have to "attack" with the shield, I'd say he loses the shield benefits, if the shield attacks by itself, he can still defend himself, ergo keeps the benefits.

Thank for your help!

no problem
fdnickerson
05-23-05, 03:41 PM Another question...the Lions Shield does 2d6 damage, does anyone know where they came up with this?

Also...when someone activates the ability of the Lion Shield, does he lost the shield benifits like one would if useing a Shield Bash attack?

Thank for your help!

1. At first I thought that 2d6 was the damage done by a lion's bite attack, but I looked it up in the MM and it wasn't. So I guess they decided on it just for the heck of it.
2. I don't think so because the lion's attack is independent from your own.
VirgilCaine
05-23-05, 03:46 PM Gee, it's just like King Arthur, that animated TV show from ungodly eons ago.

But anyway, sure, you could do that.
The PC should find a character who makes magic shields and can make a lion's shield, and they work out payment, allow the shield to be remade as a ram's shield for like 1/4 the cost of a new one.
Of course, they could just pay this off in service, so that's no biggie.
Lxarth
05-23-05, 03:46 PM 1. At first I thought that 2d6 was the damage done by a lion's bite attack, but I looked it up in the MM and it wasn't. So I guess they decided on it just for the heck of it.

So did I. Are there rules for a Ram? or at least something similar? At least I could compare and see if the damage would change...I probably wont do that though.

I posted this in the Magic forums and someone gave some good advice with the Fabricate spell...seems simple enough too.
Da Dinictus
05-23-05, 04:07 PM If I'm not mistaken, the Rhino's Hide also deals 2d6 damage... in a charge, true, but 2d6 damage, still. So yes, in a way, that's the lion shield biting, but based on another armor piece's ability. Or vice versa.

Items may vary from region to region - an example may be the use of healing potions, other regions may use healing tiles they break over their wounds (Unearthed Arcana), so a variation on the Lion's Shield is not too strange, if you can find someone who has the feats to create the item and the time and the will to make the item for the PC, and perhaps trade the two.
fdnickerson
05-23-05, 05:22 PM So did I. Are there rules for a Ram? or at least something similar? At least I could compare and see if the damage would change...I probably wont do that though.

I posted this in the Magic forums and someone gave some good advice with the Fabricate spell...seems simple enough too.

There were stats for sheep in the 2e monster manual but it didn't make the port to 3rd ed. A ram did 1d4 head butt damage in 2e. If it were me I'd make the attack a 1d6 because bighorn sheep (which is what i think your player's char wants) should do more damage than regular sheep. Or you could stick with 2d6 just for usability reasons, which is probably how it was arrived at in the first place.
Sildatorak
05-23-05, 05:37 PM I think that a ram's shield is a perfectly valid variant of the lion's shield. I think the only real question in this case is whether you want to allow recrafting of magic items from existing items.

I have an idea floating around in my head for a spell that transfers the magic from an existing item to a nonmagical masterwork item of similar purpose. I haven't worked out the details, but it would be dang useful. You could actually use the weapons of fallen foes of significantly different size to enchant new weapons of the proper size for you. I'd say it would probably be someplace in the 5th level region and have an xp component of about 1% of the base price of the item (1/4 the xp of what it costs to create it).

This is a rough idea, but you could develop it into a nice little plot arc by having the party do some adventures collecting rare supplies that an allied NPC wizard needs to complete his research on this spell.
CzarGarrett
05-24-05, 09:21 AM I'd look a bit at the Ring of the Ram as well as a Lions Shield.

Maybe a combination of a sheild and the Ring could be what you're looking for, although at a much cheaper price that an actual combination would be.
kenichi
05-24-05, 09:41 AM Or the player could enchant the shield with some sort of illusion magic so it looks like a ram instead of a lion.
Possibly just as a temporary solution until he finds someone to permanently change its shape (wish maybe?, kinda like a instantaneous polymorph any object to something virtually identical).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lxarth 05-23-05, 02:27 PM	A PC just aquired a Lions Shield, but the PC wants to change it into a "Ram Shield". I don't just want to say no, but looking at this item it is a specific item with pretty concrete abilities. My players is good enough to just accept it if I can it can't be done, but is it possible to change an existing magical item like this? The reason he wants to do this is because his character "sysbol" is a ram. He even has a ram horned helm, and I was almost gonna just make it a "Ram Shield" to begin with, but it is alot funny to have a player try himself to change stuff instead of me just seeding the world with items to help the party. Another question...the Lions Shield does 2d6 damage, does anyone know where they came up with this? Also...when someone activates the ability of the Lion Shield, does he lost the shield benifits like one would if useing a Shield Bash attack? Thank for your help!
Sternenschwinge 05-23-05, 02:45 PM	A PC just aquired a Lions Shield, but the PC wants to change it into a "Ram Shield". I don't just want to say no, but looking at this item it is a specific item with pretty concrete abilities. My players is good enough to just accept it if I can it can't be done, but is it possible to change an existing magical item like this? He could sell it and pay a mage to one with the same Abilities at his own design. Will be expensive and take time, but hey, if it's so important too him... . :P The reason he wants to do this is because his character "sysbol" is a ram. He even has a ram horned helm, and I was almost gonna just make it a "Ram Shield" to begin with, but it is alot funny to have a player try himself to change stuff instead of me just seeding the world with items to help the party. Another question...the Lions Shield does 2d6 damage, does anyone know where they came up with this? Also...when someone activates the ability of the Lion Shield, does he lost the shield benifits like one would if useing a Shield Bash attack? Good question. If you have to "attack" with the shield, I'd say he loses the shield benefits, if the shield attacks by itself, he can still defend himself, ergo keeps the benefits. Thank for your help! no problem
fdnickerson 05-23-05, 03:41 PM	Another question...the Lions Shield does 2d6 damage, does anyone know where they came up with this? Also...when someone activates the ability of the Lion Shield, does he lost the shield benifits like one would if useing a Shield Bash attack? Thank for your help! 1. At first I thought that 2d6 was the damage done by a lion's bite attack, but I looked it up in the MM and it wasn't. So I guess they decided on it just for the heck of it. 2. I don't think so because the lion's attack is independent from your own.
VirgilCaine 05-23-05, 03:46 PM	Gee, it's just like King Arthur, that animated TV show from ungodly eons ago. But anyway, sure, you could do that. The PC should find a character who makes magic shields and can make a lion's shield, and they work out payment, allow the shield to be remade as a ram's shield for like 1/4 the cost of a new one. Of course, they could just pay this off in service, so that's no biggie.
Lxarth 05-23-05, 03:46 PM	1. At first I thought that 2d6 was the damage done by a lion's bite attack, but I looked it up in the MM and it wasn't. So I guess they decided on it just for the heck of it. So did I. Are there rules for a Ram? or at least something similar? At least I could compare and see if the damage would change...I probably wont do that though. I posted this in the Magic forums and someone gave some good advice with the Fabricate spell...seems simple enough too.
Da Dinictus 05-23-05, 04:07 PM	If I'm not mistaken, the Rhino's Hide also deals 2d6 damage... in a charge, true, but 2d6 damage, still. So yes, in a way, that's the lion shield biting, but based on another armor piece's ability. Or vice versa. Items may vary from region to region - an example may be the use of healing potions, other regions may use healing tiles they break over their wounds (Unearthed Arcana), so a variation on the Lion's Shield is not too strange, if you can find someone who has the feats to create the item and the time and the will to make the item for the PC, and perhaps trade the two.
fdnickerson 05-23-05, 05:22 PM	So did I. Are there rules for a Ram? or at least something similar? At least I could compare and see if the damage would change...I probably wont do that though. I posted this in the Magic forums and someone gave some good advice with the Fabricate spell...seems simple enough too. There were stats for sheep in the 2e monster manual but it didn't make the port to 3rd ed. A ram did 1d4 head butt damage in 2e. If it were me I'd make the attack a 1d6 because bighorn sheep (which is what i think your player's char wants) should do more damage than regular sheep. Or you could stick with 2d6 just for usability reasons, which is probably how it was arrived at in the first place.
Sildatorak 05-23-05, 05:37 PM	I think that a ram's shield is a perfectly valid variant of the lion's shield. I think the only real question in this case is whether you want to allow recrafting of magic items from existing items. I have an idea floating around in my head for a spell that transfers the magic from an existing item to a nonmagical masterwork item of similar purpose. I haven't worked out the details, but it would be dang useful. You could actually use the weapons of fallen foes of significantly different size to enchant new weapons of the proper size for you. I'd say it would probably be someplace in the 5th level region and have an xp component of about 1% of the base price of the item (1/4 the xp of what it costs to create it). This is a rough idea, but you could develop it into a nice little plot arc by having the party do some adventures collecting rare supplies that an allied NPC wizard needs to complete his research on this spell.
CzarGarrett 05-24-05, 09:21 AM	I'd look a bit at the Ring of the Ram as well as a Lions Shield. Maybe a combination of a sheild and the Ring could be what you're looking for, although at a much cheaper price that an actual combination would be.
kenichi 05-24-05, 09:41 AM	Or the player could enchant the shield with some sort of illusion magic so it looks like a ram instead of a lion. Possibly just as a temporary solution until he finds someone to permanently change its shape (wish maybe?, kinda like a instantaneous polymorph any object to something virtually identical).