Changing deities? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changing deities? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rubber_cement
02-15-04, 07:00 PM One of the PCs in my game wants to change deities. She's a level 2 cleric, and wants to change deities to get different domains. So I told her I'd think about it. Should I allow this? Everyone (including me) is new to the game so I think I should be more lenient, but I'm afraid this might set a poor precedent. And if I do allow it, what should I do to make it fit in-game? Thanks!
Hyperion
02-15-04, 07:09 PM Changing deities is definately a big thing, if you guys are all new I'd allow her to make a new character with the deity she wants. I usually allow my players the chance to correct their characters once if they're new, but it's all about how strict you wanna be. As for the cleric I don't think it should be an in game change. There's no way a cleric would change her deity without some major upheaval. Out of game is better though.

Also something to think about is have your players create their characters all the way to level 20. This cuts down on a load of time they spend on leveling their character and also gives them a better feeling of what the character is about. It also keeps them focused one where their character is heading.
Just a thought.

Hyperion
Adriayna
02-15-04, 11:47 PM The question isn't really about changing dieties because of moral reasons, but rather because of domains. If you have a new player, I would probably allow it, simply becaues of the unfamiliarity of the system. If its an experienced player, then shame on them because they should have known better.

Changing deities is a major issue though, as clerics are heavily based on their deity. You would have to do some major re-working in-game to make it fit. Even if its just one good god to another--there has to be a reason for the change.
LordMacbeth
02-16-04, 12:06 AM I wouldn't let one of my players change dieties for anything but roleplaying reasons. ON the other hand, my players arn't new to the game. If you are sure they arn't doing it to Min/Max then I would let them, it would keep them happy, and possibly generat eroleplaying opportunities.

As a side note, I really don't think it was George Orwell who said "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." I'm pretty sure it was said by Lord Acton in a 1887 letter. You better check it out. Orwell wrote about the evils of communism and the fallicy of mankind, similar in topic to the quote, but I'm REALLY sure thats not his quote.
Silimaure
02-16-04, 12:27 AM Saw something along those lines in the 3.0 books, it goes something like this:

Cleric falls (like a paladin), losing spellcasting and turning abilities, must contact a cleric of the new diety, do a quest, and then recieve a atonement spell from that cleric after the quest. The cleric will then gain back all abilities and be a cleric of the new faith.
LordMacbeth
02-16-04, 12:30 AM It would be a god roleplaying experence for the cleric, but you might have problems getting the whole group invoved.
DrMorganes
02-16-04, 01:23 AM Disallowing a deity change except in drastic cirsumstances is all well and good when dealing with seasoned players. However, people new to the game need to be free to experiment a little bit with their first characters, especially in the first few levels.

Sounds like your player is unhappy with the choice of spells she has available with her current deity/domain combination. If she's new to the game, this really doesn't surprise me. I'd allow her to change her deity and/or domain selection ONCE and simply use DM fiat to say that's what the character has had all along. No penalties, no major questing.

Make it clear that such switching is NOT normally allowed, and that you're letting her do it this time in an effort to help her get into the game. Personally, I'd spend a little time with her talking about what sort of cleric she wants to play and suggest a deity with domains appropriate to her concept. She wants to be a healer? Pelor is your best and most obvious choice. If she's looking more at a warrior priest, Heironious or Kord may be better options. A nature-based cleric would probably choose Ehlonna or Obad-Hai, though such a character concept is probably better served as a druid.

If you like, invite her to post in this thread. I'm sure the community at large wouldn't mind offering her some advice.
UZI
02-16-04, 09:06 AM If you want to keep the deity change in-game, make it difficult if the original deity is lawful or evil. If the starting deity is neutral good, neutral, chaotic good, or chaotic neutral, the deity is not likely to "enforce" obedience and fidelty to their original creed. That being said, until they make contact with a cleric of the new deity (or spend some time praying in the new deity's temple), they're pretty much stuck with the old-one.

For a simpler mechanic (if the deities involved are "friendly" with each other), have the new deity choose the player to be a "chosen" cleric; this can give some good character-based side-quests, or backstory to your main campaign.

If you want to do it out-of-game, that's up to you.
Ilanthe
02-16-04, 10:18 AM This is very much your call. With a new players I'd allow the change as a one-off. Make it clear you're NOT setting a precedent. At the same time you could make sure everyone else is happy with their characters. Character creation isn't easy, especially when you're not sure what the impact of some choices will be in the game.

If it will make it fun for you and the players then play out the change in game as outlined in the other suggestions. I do suggest though that you don't leave the cleric, or her party, without healing spells for too long. An alternative might be a one on one session with the cleric, where the change-over is played out. Much depends on where the party currently is in your campaign and how easy this would be to fit in.

But don't be afraid to just rule the change happened and everyone continues happily onward if this is the solution you prefer.

Re: having the players create their characters up to lvl 20. I'd hate to have to do this and I'm a fairly experienced player. Some people have a strong character concept, but you're dealing with new players here who probably aren't even aware of all the options that will become open to them. By all means encourage them to think ahead - to have motivations and amibitions for their characters, but hard and fast progression on paper seems too fixed for what I like to experience as a more organic process. Who knows what their adventures might lead them too, or how their characters will change.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rubber_cement 02-15-04, 07:00 PM	One of the PCs in my game wants to change deities. She's a level 2 cleric, and wants to change deities to get different domains. So I told her I'd think about it. Should I allow this? Everyone (including me) is new to the game so I think I should be more lenient, but I'm afraid this might set a poor precedent. And if I do allow it, what should I do to make it fit in-game? Thanks!
Hyperion 02-15-04, 07:09 PM	Changing deities is definately a big thing, if you guys are all new I'd allow her to make a new character with the deity she wants. I usually allow my players the chance to correct their characters once if they're new, but it's all about how strict you wanna be. As for the cleric I don't think it should be an in game change. There's no way a cleric would change her deity without some major upheaval. Out of game is better though. Also something to think about is have your players create their characters all the way to level 20. This cuts down on a load of time they spend on leveling their character and also gives them a better feeling of what the character is about. It also keeps them focused one where their character is heading. Just a thought. Hyperion
Adriayna 02-15-04, 11:47 PM	The question isn't really about changing dieties because of moral reasons, but rather because of domains. If you have a new player, I would probably allow it, simply becaues of the unfamiliarity of the system. If its an experienced player, then shame on them because they should have known better. Changing deities is a major issue though, as clerics are heavily based on their deity. You would have to do some major re-working in-game to make it fit. Even if its just one good god to another--there has to be a reason for the change.
LordMacbeth 02-16-04, 12:06 AM	I wouldn't let one of my players change dieties for anything but roleplaying reasons. ON the other hand, my players arn't new to the game. If you are sure they arn't doing it to Min/Max then I would let them, it would keep them happy, and possibly generat eroleplaying opportunities. As a side note, I really don't think it was George Orwell who said "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." I'm pretty sure it was said by Lord Acton in a 1887 letter. You better check it out. Orwell wrote about the evils of communism and the fallicy of mankind, similar in topic to the quote, but I'm REALLY sure thats not his quote.
Silimaure 02-16-04, 12:27 AM	Saw something along those lines in the 3.0 books, it goes something like this: Cleric falls (like a paladin), losing spellcasting and turning abilities, must contact a cleric of the new diety, do a quest, and then recieve a atonement spell from that cleric after the quest. The cleric will then gain back all abilities and be a cleric of the new faith.
LordMacbeth 02-16-04, 12:30 AM	It would be a god roleplaying experence for the cleric, but you might have problems getting the whole group invoved.
DrMorganes 02-16-04, 01:23 AM	Disallowing a deity change except in drastic cirsumstances is all well and good when dealing with seasoned players. However, people new to the game need to be free to experiment a little bit with their first characters, especially in the first few levels. Sounds like your player is unhappy with the choice of spells she has available with her current deity/domain combination. If she's new to the game, this really doesn't surprise me. I'd allow her to change her deity and/or domain selection ONCE and simply use DM fiat to say that's what the character has had all along. No penalties, no major questing. Make it clear that such switching is NOT normally allowed, and that you're letting her do it this time in an effort to help her get into the game. Personally, I'd spend a little time with her talking about what sort of cleric she wants to play and suggest a deity with domains appropriate to her concept. She wants to be a healer? Pelor is your best and most obvious choice. If she's looking more at a warrior priest, Heironious or Kord may be better options. A nature-based cleric would probably choose Ehlonna or Obad-Hai, though such a character concept is probably better served as a druid. If you like, invite her to post in this thread. I'm sure the community at large wouldn't mind offering her some advice.
UZI 02-16-04, 09:06 AM	If you want to keep the deity change in-game, make it difficult if the original deity is lawful or evil. If the starting deity is neutral good, neutral, chaotic good, or chaotic neutral, the deity is not likely to "enforce" obedience and fidelty to their original creed. That being said, until they make contact with a cleric of the new deity (or spend some time praying in the new deity's temple), they're pretty much stuck with the old-one. For a simpler mechanic (if the deities involved are "friendly" with each other), have the new deity choose the player to be a "chosen" cleric; this can give some good character-based side-quests, or backstory to your main campaign. If you want to do it out-of-game, that's up to you.
Ilanthe 02-16-04, 10:18 AM	This is very much your call. With a new players I'd allow the change as a one-off. Make it clear you're NOT setting a precedent. At the same time you could make sure everyone else is happy with their characters. Character creation isn't easy, especially when you're not sure what the impact of some choices will be in the game. If it will make it fun for you and the players then play out the change in game as outlined in the other suggestions. I do suggest though that you don't leave the cleric, or her party, without healing spells for too long. An alternative might be a one on one session with the cleric, where the change-over is played out. Much depends on where the party currently is in your campaign and how easy this would be to fit in. But don't be afraid to just rule the change happened and everyone continues happily onward if this is the solution you prefer. Re: having the players create their characters up to lvl 20. I'd hate to have to do this and I'm a fairly experienced player. Some people have a strong character concept, but you're dealing with new players here who probably aren't even aware of all the options that will become open to them. By all means encourage them to think ahead - to have motivations and amibitions for their characters, but hard and fast progression on paper seems too fixed for what I like to experience as a more organic process. Who knows what their adventures might lead them too, or how their characters will change.