Changing deity [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changing deity [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Enaloindir
12-08-04, 04:40 AM Hello all,

What would happen to a cleric when he gets converted to a new faith? Does he get to pick new domains, or does he simply loses access to his old domains? Do Clerics lose any bonus feats they gained as a domain power (this seems rather weird)?

Thanks for your answers,
Enaloindir
Arcen
12-08-04, 05:11 AM Would depend on the DM. Personally I'd have the Cleric lose all class abilities until he did some important quest for the new god in order to proove his dedication.
Enaloindir
12-08-04, 05:12 AM You'd also make him lose his feats?
paradoxmage
12-08-04, 06:35 AM I would require a very good reason for changeing faith. Any domain feats would be gone (unless the new god had same domain and the character was choosing this).
Any PrC with this god in the requirements would be gone (all ability's and spellcasting increase). Would still keep the attack and saves from the PrC.
Enaloindir
12-08-04, 06:39 AM Basically, the party cleric has died, and can only be raised if he converts to the faith of the cleric raising him (both gods are from the Good pantheon, so he's considering it)...
Antigone
12-08-04, 11:21 AM My first question is, how does the dead cleric know that the other cleric will raise him only if he converts? "A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and may refuse to return on that basis." PHB, p. 171. Raise dead, etc., don't allow the caster to communicate with the dead character and bargain with him, so unless the caster has some other way to do so, it sounds to me like the dead cleric should be raised and then confronted with the demand to convert, which could be interesting. Of course, I have other questions, like why would the priest of a good deity blackmail the priests of othe good deities into converting, but that's not your question.

"A cleric who grossly violates the code of conduct required by his god ... loses all spells and class features, except for armor and shield proficiencies and proficiency with simple weapons." PHB, p. 33. Class features includes domain granted powers, and conversion has to violate his god's code of conduct, so ... bye-bye all granted powers, including bonus feats. Think of such feats as divinely inspired knowledge, if it helps - "I don't know how to swing a longsword, but Corellon guides my arm." To rule otherwise would theoretically allow a PC to acquire two free feats (even more if you're using Forgotten Realms) plus two more granted powers even before he starts adventuring. (Character Background: "I was a cleric of Heironeous for two weeks, but then I realized how much better Pelor is, so I converted. Now I've got the two bonus feats from Heironeous and two more granted powers from Pelor." :nonono: )
zodiki
12-08-04, 12:11 PM I'm not usally a harsh DM, but in this case, I'd strip him of all his powers and he wouldn't get any new ones just for converting. Who says the new deity even wants him as a cleric. And I don't think the ex-cleric should be able to go on a quest or something to atone. He's converted! The ex-cleric comitted a great sin. At the most difficult crossroads of his journey, he abandoned his deity.

I tell you what I would do though. I'd let the cleric become a Paladin of the new deity allowing him to switch out 1/2 of his levels for Paladin levels. His turn undead would still stack but all his spells and domain powers would be lost.

- zodiki
Didge
12-08-04, 03:10 PM Ok, here's how I'd handle this.

1st - The cleric who died is now in his/her own version of heaven with their god. WHY would this character want to leave? This is pure bliss for the character. Unless there is something catastrophic happening, I'd say, "Sorry. No go." But that's how I see things. Now if there was some major earth shattering event that the cleric could help avert if they were brought back to life, then yes by all means they might consider it.

2nd - If the cleric did come back and was forced to "convert" the question must be raised, is everyone "forced" to convert that's brought back? Doesn't exactly lend itself to a good god to be "forcing" people to do things. This should be handled in a RP situation, and could be asked that the cleric donate some extra duties/quest/gold for the raising, otherwise...well that's not a road I'd like to visit, and neither is anyone being raised.

3rd - If the cleric does "convert" why would this new god believe him/her? He's already abandoned one faith, what's to stop him/her from doing it again when the situation arises?

4th - Assuming the cleric is brought back, and somehow converts, then I'd say he starts without any advantages that he had from the first religion. I.e., his domain's from the old god are replaced by those of the new. Any feats that are dependant on the old are not lost, s/he simply cannot access them. Think in terms of a PrC. If a character is in a PrC, and loses one of the pre-reqs for the PrC, they don't lose the skills from the PrC, they simply cannot use them until they aquire the ability to qualify for the PrC again. This is how I'd handle that.

Ok, hopefully some of this is helpful to you.
PenderGrass
12-08-04, 03:15 PM Clerics that betray their chosen faith by leaving the flock are destroyed.

Instantly.

****
Melpomene
12-08-04, 03:30 PM He would retain those feats which have nothing to do with diety. If he had WF:Longsword, he still keeps that. ::shrug::

Other than that, I abstain.
Board_Rider
12-08-04, 04:20 PM I think Antigone hit the nail on the head. You(if DM) should ask yourself why that God would put such a stipulation on the raised cleric. If your the player ask the DM that....or just say that you do not wish to be raised. It's your call.
Me? I don't normally exercise this kinda thing in my game. If the PC's got the money and find either a Neutral or Good aligned church then hey the job gets done. Say however if the PC wanted to worship the new deity due to thanks or whatever then I would say that the deity would at least be in the same sort of vein.
Or just do what Pendergrass offered and it will be much easier!!
Enaloindir
12-09-04, 04:12 AM The situation is that my co-DM kind of dropped the ball during the last session, killing 3 of our 7 PCs without giving them a chance to escape...He now realises his encounter was a bit more than "hard" and tries to get it undone without resorting to "the Dallas trick" (it's all a dream...)
Therefore, he was thinking about letting a Good deity (which is getting blackmailed by an Evil deity) contact the dead PCs and bring them back to life.

My co-DM wants us all to convert to the faith of the Good deity, but I think it's not really "Good" behaviour to force a faith conversion, as already pointed out by previous posters.

The quest has something to do with a god trying to enter the world through a special portal and the PCs trying to stop them. First under the guise of stopping a kidnapping plague, but as they advance they discover there is more to the kidnappings (kidnapped spellcasters get sacrificed during the construction of the portal).

Enaloindir

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Enaloindir 12-08-04, 04:40 AM	Hello all, What would happen to a cleric when he gets converted to a new faith? Does he get to pick new domains, or does he simply loses access to his old domains? Do Clerics lose any bonus feats they gained as a domain power (this seems rather weird)? Thanks for your answers, Enaloindir
Arcen 12-08-04, 05:11 AM	Would depend on the DM. Personally I'd have the Cleric lose all class abilities until he did some important quest for the new god in order to proove his dedication.
Enaloindir 12-08-04, 05:12 AM	You'd also make him lose his feats?
paradoxmage 12-08-04, 06:35 AM	I would require a very good reason for changeing faith. Any domain feats would be gone (unless the new god had same domain and the character was choosing this). Any PrC with this god in the requirements would be gone (all ability's and spellcasting increase). Would still keep the attack and saves from the PrC.
Enaloindir 12-08-04, 06:39 AM	Basically, the party cleric has died, and can only be raised if he converts to the faith of the cleric raising him (both gods are from the Good pantheon, so he's considering it)...
Antigone 12-08-04, 11:21 AM	My first question is, how does the dead cleric know that the other cleric will raise him only if he converts? "A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and may refuse to return on that basis." PHB, p. 171. Raise dead, etc., don't allow the caster to communicate with the dead character and bargain with him, so unless the caster has some other way to do so, it sounds to me like the dead cleric should be raised and then confronted with the demand to convert, which could be interesting. Of course, I have other questions, like why would the priest of a good deity blackmail the priests of othe good deities into converting, but that's not your question. "A cleric who grossly violates the code of conduct required by his god ... loses all spells and class features, except for armor and shield proficiencies and proficiency with simple weapons." PHB, p. 33. Class features includes domain granted powers, and conversion has to violate his god's code of conduct, so ... bye-bye all granted powers, including bonus feats. Think of such feats as divinely inspired knowledge, if it helps - "I don't know how to swing a longsword, but Corellon guides my arm." To rule otherwise would theoretically allow a PC to acquire two free feats (even more if you're using Forgotten Realms) plus two more granted powers even before he starts adventuring. (Character Background: "I was a cleric of Heironeous for two weeks, but then I realized how much better Pelor is, so I converted. Now I've got the two bonus feats from Heironeous and two more granted powers from Pelor." :nonono: )
zodiki 12-08-04, 12:11 PM	I'm not usally a harsh DM, but in this case, I'd strip him of all his powers and he wouldn't get any new ones just for converting. Who says the new deity even wants him as a cleric. And I don't think the ex-cleric should be able to go on a quest or something to atone. He's converted! The ex-cleric comitted a great sin. At the most difficult crossroads of his journey, he abandoned his deity. I tell you what I would do though. I'd let the cleric become a Paladin of the new deity allowing him to switch out 1/2 of his levels for Paladin levels. His turn undead would still stack but all his spells and domain powers would be lost. - zodiki
Didge 12-08-04, 03:10 PM	Ok, here's how I'd handle this. 1st - The cleric who died is now in his/her own version of heaven with their god. WHY would this character want to leave? This is pure bliss for the character. Unless there is something catastrophic happening, I'd say, "Sorry. No go." But that's how I see things. Now if there was some major earth shattering event that the cleric could help avert if they were brought back to life, then yes by all means they might consider it. 2nd - If the cleric did come back and was forced to "convert" the question must be raised, is everyone "forced" to convert that's brought back? Doesn't exactly lend itself to a good god to be "forcing" people to do things. This should be handled in a RP situation, and could be asked that the cleric donate some extra duties/quest/gold for the raising, otherwise...well that's not a road I'd like to visit, and neither is anyone being raised. 3rd - If the cleric does "convert" why would this new god believe him/her? He's already abandoned one faith, what's to stop him/her from doing it again when the situation arises? 4th - Assuming the cleric is brought back, and somehow converts, then I'd say he starts without any advantages that he had from the first religion. I.e., his domain's from the old god are replaced by those of the new. Any feats that are dependant on the old are not lost, s/he simply cannot access them. Think in terms of a PrC. If a character is in a PrC, and loses one of the pre-reqs for the PrC, they don't lose the skills from the PrC, they simply cannot use them until they aquire the ability to qualify for the PrC again. This is how I'd handle that. Ok, hopefully some of this is helpful to you.
PenderGrass 12-08-04, 03:15 PM	Clerics that betray their chosen faith by leaving the flock are destroyed. Instantly. ****
Melpomene 12-08-04, 03:30 PM	He would retain those feats which have nothing to do with diety. If he had WF:Longsword, he still keeps that. ::shrug:: Other than that, I abstain.
Board_Rider 12-08-04, 04:20 PM	I think Antigone hit the nail on the head. You(if DM) should ask yourself why that God would put such a stipulation on the raised cleric. If your the player ask the DM that....or just say that you do not wish to be raised. It's your call. Me? I don't normally exercise this kinda thing in my game. If the PC's got the money and find either a Neutral or Good aligned church then hey the job gets done. Say however if the PC wanted to worship the new deity due to thanks or whatever then I would say that the deity would at least be in the same sort of vein. Or just do what Pendergrass offered and it will be much easier!!
Enaloindir 12-09-04, 04:12 AM	The situation is that my co-DM kind of dropped the ball during the last session, killing 3 of our 7 PCs without giving them a chance to escape...He now realises his encounter was a bit more than "hard" and tries to get it undone without resorting to "the Dallas trick" (it's all a dream...) Therefore, he was thinking about letting a Good deity (which is getting blackmailed by an Evil deity) contact the dead PCs and bring them back to life. My co-DM wants us all to convert to the faith of the Good deity, but I think it's not really "Good" behaviour to force a faith conversion, as already pointed out by previous posters. The quest has something to do with a god trying to enter the world through a special portal and the PCs trying to stop them. First under the guise of stopping a kidnapping plague, but as they advance they discover there is more to the kidnappings (kidnapped spellcasters get sacrificed during the construction of the portal). Enaloindir