Changing feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changing feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tekklas V' Netherell
03-29-04, 05:15 PM I have a question. In our campaign, i chose to take the feat Brew Potion at level 3. I didn't use it once, and i decided maybe craft wondrous item was a better idea. My DM says that i cannot change this feat, even though i've never used it. I would allow this, but only if it wasn't opportunistic. ie) a cleric taking extra turning when he has none left against undead.
What is the best way to handle this?
Scion of Coldshard
03-29-04, 05:28 PM Ask the dm to just allow you to switch it out, you are trying to take a feat you could have taken at that time anyway, you have never used the feat, and it doesnt fit the character concept you are going for.

I would certainly allow the change (and have before for that matter).

Basically I dont see why there would be a problem, just say that you accidentally wrote down the wrong feat for whatever reason, as that is what it sounds like.

Ask him why it is a problem, what you could do to change it. At worst ask if you could wait a level and change it over then (full level or two of nonuse as 'punishment' for taking the wrong feat, shift it over to something you are going to use). If that doesnt work then you may be out of luck I'm afraid :(
Sucineri
03-29-04, 05:46 PM I don't see any reason why you couldn't switch it out..if you haven't even used the feat and aren't planning on using it then I would say switch it out easily.
Realms Walker
03-29-04, 06:02 PM Personally I wouldnt allow it. I had a problem where players chose this or that and then later in the game tried to change it again.. If a DM doesnt enforce the rules of the game and stick with it players will think there characters are fluid and Can be changed if for example they make a mistake and take a Class or Feat or Spell or whatever. You Choose yer paths in game and you should live by them. What I would do though is Make the Best of the Brew Potion feat. Instead of Just ditching it MAKE USE of it. You might find that you chose right in the first place.

Thats just my opinion though.
macfry
03-29-04, 06:27 PM Also, don't discount the potion. Its a much underused item in dnd. You can make some pretty nifty stuff. Keep an Eagle's Splendor/Owl's Wisdom/Fox's Cunning under your sleeve to increase your DCs if something starts making saves too easy. Keep a Protection from Arrows in your left breast pocket in case you start getting pelted by archers while you're trying to cast combat spells. Keep a Spider Climb potion in your boot in case you need to get away real real quick. The best thing about all these? Each one I just listed only costs 150 gp and 12 xp to make. Thats it. Plus, you can share with your friends!
Scion of Coldshard
03-29-04, 06:32 PM or with craft wonderous do all of the above, but better, longer, and everyone can still use them.

brew potion is a pretty horrible feat really, it needs some massive help ;) Possibly cutting all costs in half, maybe it would be worth it then.

Edit: I should say again though, swapping out a never used feat for one that the character will actually make use of is never a bad thing ;)
exploding_brain
03-29-04, 06:40 PM We have a similar situation in my campaign right now. A character wanted to take an item creation feat at 3rd level. She took craft wonderous (partly at my urging), and now is reconsidering. Since she's never used the feat, I'm happy to allow her to swap it out for another item creation feat. Of course, the character is still level three, but I'd probably allow it for another couple of levels, or even more, depending on circumstances. As long as the feat is never used, it's reasonable to request this tipe of swap.

What level is your character now?
Lord Crimson
03-29-04, 06:57 PM Ultimately, I'd say it's up to your DM and if he won't let you change it, then too bad. You chose it. No one forced you. You're the one failing to make use of it.

As a DM, I would probably allow it. Once. If you did it again, then it's your problem. You could make better choices if you actually cared enough to do so.

So, if I were you (which, thankfully I am not), I would approach my DM and ask him nicely. If he says "no," ask him if he's willing to give you any reasons. But, bear in mind, he doesn't need any considering that the rules are on his side and YOU were the one to make such a foolish or flippant choice in the matter in the first place.

If it bothers you too much, ask if you can make a new character, from scratch, a level or two lower than your current one. But, again, don't be surprised if he turns you down.
zodiki
03-29-04, 08:01 PM The DM is always right and he's supported here by the rules. However, since you never used it, I would have let you switch it out.
Set
03-29-04, 08:08 PM Since he left some stuff out:nonono:, I feel I must fill in the blanks.

1st- I've already allowed him to change some skills from one to the other. Since he did not use those, and told him it wouldn't happen again (changing skills or feats).

2nd- The only reason it is a "never used" feat is because he has not had any real time since he got it to use it. (If he didn't get time to use it, he would have not had any chance of doing anything with the Craft Wondrous Item feat.)

3rd- He had all kinds of plans to use it, then decided that the items created by the Craft Wondrous Item feat looked better and wanted to be able to make them. (He may disagree, but that is mainly how it was...)

Yes, I am his DM.
Scion of Coldshard
03-29-04, 08:11 PM Seems fine, some players just dont plan as well as their characters in the game world probably will. It is a game after all, it is ok to let things slide now and then ;)
KitsuneSoup
03-29-04, 08:14 PM Well, I allow players to use a wish to swap one feat for another. The restrictions on this are as follows:

a.) An exchanged feat must be a feat gained by all classes, not by a special feature of a class (i.e., fighters cannot switch their bonus feats).

b.) An exchanged feat cannot be exchanged again.

c.) As noted in the rulebooks, any feat that was dependant on a feat that was exchanged no longer functions; it lies dormant until the prerequisites are once again met.

For players who cannot gain a wish, they can jolly-well quest for one.

As an aside, I like potions. A lot. So much, I made two more feats to chain with them that were judged by the old boards not to be too overpowered.

The first, Brew Elixir, let you make potions of spells up to 6th level using the standard formula.

The second, Potion Admixture, let you combine spells into a single potion up to the level limit you were permitted: that is, you could add true strike and, say, bull's strength to the same potion that take effect at the same time. The nice part about this one, it stacks with the Brew Elixir. So if you wanted to, you could have a potion of cure light wounds x6, healing 6d8+6 damage for very little money.

Coupled with Magical Artisan (25% discount on creation), you can have a lot of fun playing the alchemist mage.

KitsuneSoup
DrMorganes
03-30-04, 01:35 AM I allow this sort of thing as long as the player doesn't try to abuse it. That is, once is typically the limit and only then if there's a very good reason. In this instance, it looks as though Tekklas is trying his DM's patience. My advice is to buck up and get brewing ;)

The second, Potion Admixture, let you combine spells into a single potion up to the level limit you were permitted
Ah, but then you miss out on all the fun of the potion immiscability table! No wait. Wrong edition... :( The fun I used to have with that one... :devil:
Manic Man
03-30-04, 01:46 AM I see no reason to disallow it.
Simply create a houserule for future reference.

Example
If the skill or feat has been used, even once, then no exchange. If not, exchange away.

This prevents
i) Further arguments
ii) Is fair
iii) Creates a compromise between player and DM.

Remember, the DM's rule is right but a DM who never listens to his players ends up with 0 players
Rian Lightblade
03-30-04, 01:30 PM I agree with those who said, "Tough! You took it you're stuck with it." You should have given more thought to what feats you were picking and how useful they would be to you. This isn'ta video game, like NWN, where if you don't like how you leveled up you can revert to an earlier saved file.

That being said. If you were still at the level when you took the feat, I would probably allow you to switch it out, but only once and if you leveled up and wanted to switch at the next level, too bad!
Tekklas V' Netherell
03-30-04, 04:31 PM As to all the replies and questions, here's the info.
We're at level 3, so i was only able to JUST take it. True, i had no time to make a potion, so it wouldn't make any impression on past sessions, but i figured "What would i rather be making, a necklace of mage hand, or a potion of jump?". The choice is rather obvious. I realize that i DID choose this feat, and i probably WILL have to deal with it, but listen to this. At level 5, provided i get killed and resurrected, i will meet all of the necessary criteria for the PrC Blood Mage, which i plan to take. If i do, one of the special abilities gained is blood draught: The ability to brew potions wothin my own body. ("....As the brew potion feat with an alternate meduim...") I figured this way, i wouldn't get the same feat twice. A backup plan i have, though, is that at level 5, i will also qualify for Dragon Disciple. If i have to take brew potion, i'll just take that. The two are almos equal as far as neat toys go, so i might just take that.
:mage:
Krelios
03-30-04, 04:40 PM At level 5, provided i get killed and resurrected, i will meet all of the necessary criteria for the PrC Blood Mage, which i plan to take. If i do, one of the special abilities gained is blood draught: The ability to brew potions wothin my own body. ("....As the brew potion feat with an alternate meduim...") I figured this way, i wouldn't get the same feat twice. A backup plan i have, though, is that at level 5, i will also qualify for Dragon Disciple. If i have to take brew potion, i'll just take that. The two are almos equal as far as neat toys go, so i might just take that. Ok, thanks for this bit. Now I agree with your DM. No chance of swapping feats. It would be one thing if you wanted to change it for a roleplay reason, but not so you can have more "neat toys" as you put it. :nonono: Metagaming...
Tekklas V' Netherell
03-30-04, 04:45 PM Hmm? Metagaming, you say? I don't see how that's possible. If knowing what you get from taking a certain class before choosing it is metagaming, how would you choose your first-level core class without metagaming? Or ANY prestige class, for that matter. You wouldn't just say:"Acolyte of the skin, huh? Sounds neat! I'll take a level in it and see what happens!". Theres a difference between metagaming and knowledge.
CuCulain42
03-30-04, 04:47 PM Originally posted by Realms Walker
Personally I wouldnt allow it. I had a problem where players chose this or that and then later in the game tried to change it again.. If a DM doesnt enforce the rules of the game and stick with it players will think there characters are fluid and Can be changed if for example they make a mistake and take a Class or Feat or Spell or whatever. You Choose yer paths in game and you should live by them. What I would do though is Make the Best of the Brew Potion feat. Instead of Just ditching it MAKE USE of it. You might find that you chose right in the first place.

Thats just my opinion though.
I'll second this opinion, and also agree with Krelios--changing feats in the manner you are suggesting is METAGAMING.
Krelios
03-30-04, 04:49 PM Tekklas V' Netherell, you misunderstood. If you are taking a PrC because it fit the character's story, that's fine--taking it solely for the abilities is metagaming.
Tekklas V' Netherell
03-30-04, 04:54 PM All right, all right, sorry about that little spiel about metagaming. When i'm accused oif something i don't like, i get a little hot under the collar, and try to defend myself. I guess that WOULD count as metagaming. One of the reasons i thought of DD was that it actually fits in with my character's story (If you don't believe me, check with set, he knows). So the question is this: If a person takes a prestige class with more than one natureal weapon gained due to a template ie: dragon disciple, should you allow them to take the multiattack feat? Or would thay have to take the two-weapon fighting feat?
hexgrid
03-30-04, 05:14 PM Originally posted by Krelios
Tekklas V' Netherell, you misunderstood. If you are taking a PrC because it fit the character's story, that's fine--taking it solely for the abilities is metagaming.

So what? There's absolutely nothing wrong with with choosing a prestige class because it's abilities sound cool. Some might consider that the main attraction of playing the game in the first place.

As for switching the feat, I think the question that should be asked by the DM is "Will allowing the feat change have a detrimental effect on the group's overall enjoyment of the game?"

If the answer is "no," and the DM still doesn't allow it, he's just being an :censored:
Realms Walker
03-30-04, 08:47 PM I was against you wanting to change out the Brew potion feat before but Seeing your real reasons that you want to take a PrC that already basically had the Brew potion feat sounds like you are trying to have yer cake and eat it too. You will have as a result of the PrC brew potion so you want another feat to go along with it. I find that wrong and My players know never to come and ask me to do something liek what you are asking yer DM to do.

GL to you and your DM because in the end it is between you 2 how you handle it. This is just my opinion.
Nick Soapdish
03-30-04, 09:10 PM Originally posted by Tekklas V' Netherell
Hmm? Metagaming, you say? I don't see how that's possible. If knowing what you get from taking a certain class before choosing it is metagaming, how would you choose your first-level core class without metagaming? Or ANY prestige class, for that matter. You wouldn't just say:"Acolyte of the skin, huh? Sounds neat! I'll take a level in it and see what happens!". Theres a difference between metagaming and knowledge.

Well yeah, but wanting to switch out a feat because you anticipate getting killed, raised, which would then allow you to take a prestige class that gives the virtual benefit of that feat does sound like metagaming.
hexgrid
03-31-04, 09:16 AM Originally posted by Realms Walker
trying to have yer cake and eat it too

Never once, in all my 27 years, have I been presented with a piece of cake that I wasn't allowed to eat, but I often hear others being chastised for wanting to do the same thing.

Strange.

:D
samoosa691
03-31-04, 08:39 PM as long as the player hasn't used the feat the dm should allow it, i've done this many times with my dm oking it...
sembrin1
03-31-04, 10:19 PM Our DM has stated in the past he will let us change Feats by using a Limited Wish or Wish (I forget offhand). Even if your GM is :censored::censored::censored::censored: retentive, allowing you to use a Wish to change a feat should never be a problem.
The Hanged Man
03-31-04, 10:43 PM Originally posted by Set
Since he left some stuff out:nonono:, I feel I must fill in the blanks.

1st- I've already allowed him to change some skills from one to the other. Since he did not use those, and told him it wouldn't happen again (changing skills or feats).

2nd- The only reason it is a "never used" feat is because he has not had any real time since he got it to use it. (If he didn't get time to use it, he would have not had any chance of doing anything with the Craft Wondrous Item feat.)

3rd- He had all kinds of plans to use it, then decided that the items created by the Craft Wondrous Item feat looked better and wanted to be able to make them. (He may disagree, but that is mainly how it was...)

Yes, I am his DM.

Well, hell. You're the DM. You're right. And there's nothing wrong with your call.

But I don't see it as a big deal to let somebody swap out a feat when it turns out to be a little lame. Some of us min-max in reverse. I don't feel like penalizing players for an entire game b/c they didn't think ahead early on.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tekklas V' Netherell 03-29-04, 05:15 PM	I have a question. In our campaign, i chose to take the feat Brew Potion at level 3. I didn't use it once, and i decided maybe craft wondrous item was a better idea. My DM says that i cannot change this feat, even though i've never used it. I would allow this, but only if it wasn't opportunistic. ie) a cleric taking extra turning when he has none left against undead. What is the best way to handle this?
Scion of Coldshard 03-29-04, 05:28 PM	Ask the dm to just allow you to switch it out, you are trying to take a feat you could have taken at that time anyway, you have never used the feat, and it doesnt fit the character concept you are going for. I would certainly allow the change (and have before for that matter). Basically I dont see why there would be a problem, just say that you accidentally wrote down the wrong feat for whatever reason, as that is what it sounds like. Ask him why it is a problem, what you could do to change it. At worst ask if you could wait a level and change it over then (full level or two of nonuse as 'punishment' for taking the wrong feat, shift it over to something you are going to use). If that doesnt work then you may be out of luck I'm afraid :(
Sucineri 03-29-04, 05:46 PM	I don't see any reason why you couldn't switch it out..if you haven't even used the feat and aren't planning on using it then I would say switch it out easily.
Realms Walker 03-29-04, 06:02 PM	Personally I wouldnt allow it. I had a problem where players chose this or that and then later in the game tried to change it again.. If a DM doesnt enforce the rules of the game and stick with it players will think there characters are fluid and Can be changed if for example they make a mistake and take a Class or Feat or Spell or whatever. You Choose yer paths in game and you should live by them. What I would do though is Make the Best of the Brew Potion feat. Instead of Just ditching it MAKE USE of it. You might find that you chose right in the first place. Thats just my opinion though.
macfry 03-29-04, 06:27 PM	Also, don't discount the potion. Its a much underused item in dnd. You can make some pretty nifty stuff. Keep an Eagle's Splendor/Owl's Wisdom/Fox's Cunning under your sleeve to increase your DCs if something starts making saves too easy. Keep a Protection from Arrows in your left breast pocket in case you start getting pelted by archers while you're trying to cast combat spells. Keep a Spider Climb potion in your boot in case you need to get away real real quick. The best thing about all these? Each one I just listed only costs 150 gp and 12 xp to make. Thats it. Plus, you can share with your friends!
Scion of Coldshard 03-29-04, 06:32 PM	or with craft wonderous do all of the above, but better, longer, and everyone can still use them. brew potion is a pretty horrible feat really, it needs some massive help ;) Possibly cutting all costs in half, maybe it would be worth it then. Edit: I should say again though, swapping out a never used feat for one that the character will actually make use of is never a bad thing ;)
exploding_brain 03-29-04, 06:40 PM	We have a similar situation in my campaign right now. A character wanted to take an item creation feat at 3rd level. She took craft wonderous (partly at my urging), and now is reconsidering. Since she's never used the feat, I'm happy to allow her to swap it out for another item creation feat. Of course, the character is still level three, but I'd probably allow it for another couple of levels, or even more, depending on circumstances. As long as the feat is never used, it's reasonable to request this tipe of swap. What level is your character now?
Lord Crimson 03-29-04, 06:57 PM	Ultimately, I'd say it's up to your DM and if he won't let you change it, then too bad. You chose it. No one forced you. You're the one failing to make use of it. As a DM, I would probably allow it. Once. If you did it again, then it's your problem. You could make better choices if you actually cared enough to do so. So, if I were you (which, thankfully I am not), I would approach my DM and ask him nicely. If he says "no," ask him if he's willing to give you any reasons. But, bear in mind, he doesn't need any considering that the rules are on his side and YOU were the one to make such a foolish or flippant choice in the matter in the first place. If it bothers you too much, ask if you can make a new character, from scratch, a level or two lower than your current one. But, again, don't be surprised if he turns you down.
zodiki 03-29-04, 08:01 PM	The DM is always right and he's supported here by the rules. However, since you never used it, I would have let you switch it out.
Set 03-29-04, 08:08 PM	Since he left some stuff out:nonono:, I feel I must fill in the blanks. 1st- I've already allowed him to change some skills from one to the other. Since he did not use those, and told him it wouldn't happen again (changing skills or feats). 2nd- The only reason it is a "never used" feat is because he has not had any real time since he got it to use it. (If he didn't get time to use it, he would have not had any chance of doing anything with the Craft Wondrous Item feat.) 3rd- He had all kinds of plans to use it, then decided that the items created by the Craft Wondrous Item feat looked better and wanted to be able to make them. (He may disagree, but that is mainly how it was...) Yes, I am his DM.
Scion of Coldshard 03-29-04, 08:11 PM	Seems fine, some players just dont plan as well as their characters in the game world probably will. It is a game after all, it is ok to let things slide now and then ;)
KitsuneSoup 03-29-04, 08:14 PM	Well, I allow players to use a wish to swap one feat for another. The restrictions on this are as follows: a.) An exchanged feat must be a feat gained by all classes, not by a special feature of a class (i.e., fighters cannot switch their bonus feats). b.) An exchanged feat cannot be exchanged again. c.) As noted in the rulebooks, any feat that was dependant on a feat that was exchanged no longer functions; it lies dormant until the prerequisites are once again met. For players who cannot gain a wish, they can jolly-well quest for one. As an aside, I like potions. A lot. So much, I made two more feats to chain with them that were judged by the old boards not to be too overpowered. The first, Brew Elixir, let you make potions of spells up to 6th level using the standard formula. The second, Potion Admixture, let you combine spells into a single potion up to the level limit you were permitted: that is, you could add true strike and, say, bull's strength to the same potion that take effect at the same time. The nice part about this one, it stacks with the Brew Elixir. So if you wanted to, you could have a potion of cure light wounds x6, healing 6d8+6 damage for very little money. Coupled with Magical Artisan (25% discount on creation), you can have a lot of fun playing the alchemist mage. KitsuneSoup
DrMorganes 03-30-04, 01:35 AM	I allow this sort of thing as long as the player doesn't try to abuse it. That is, once is typically the limit and only then if there's a very good reason. In this instance, it looks as though Tekklas is trying his DM's patience. My advice is to buck up and get brewing ;) The second, Potion Admixture, let you combine spells into a single potion up to the level limit you were permitted Ah, but then you miss out on all the fun of the potion immiscability table! No wait. Wrong edition... :( The fun I used to have with that one... :devil:
Manic Man 03-30-04, 01:46 AM	I see no reason to disallow it. Simply create a houserule for future reference. Example If the skill or feat has been used, even once, then no exchange. If not, exchange away. This prevents i) Further arguments ii) Is fair iii) Creates a compromise between player and DM. Remember, the DM's rule is right but a DM who never listens to his players ends up with 0 players
Rian Lightblade 03-30-04, 01:30 PM	I agree with those who said, "Tough! You took it you're stuck with it." You should have given more thought to what feats you were picking and how useful they would be to you. This isn'ta video game, like NWN, where if you don't like how you leveled up you can revert to an earlier saved file. That being said. If you were still at the level when you took the feat, I would probably allow you to switch it out, but only once and if you leveled up and wanted to switch at the next level, too bad!
Tekklas V' Netherell 03-30-04, 04:31 PM	As to all the replies and questions, here's the info. We're at level 3, so i was only able to JUST take it. True, i had no time to make a potion, so it wouldn't make any impression on past sessions, but i figured "What would i rather be making, a necklace of mage hand, or a potion of jump?". The choice is rather obvious. I realize that i DID choose this feat, and i probably WILL have to deal with it, but listen to this. At level 5, provided i get killed and resurrected, i will meet all of the necessary criteria for the PrC Blood Mage, which i plan to take. If i do, one of the special abilities gained is blood draught: The ability to brew potions wothin my own body. ("....As the brew potion feat with an alternate meduim...") I figured this way, i wouldn't get the same feat twice. A backup plan i have, though, is that at level 5, i will also qualify for Dragon Disciple. If i have to take brew potion, i'll just take that. The two are almos equal as far as neat toys go, so i might just take that. :mage:
Krelios 03-30-04, 04:40 PM	At level 5, provided i get killed and resurrected, i will meet all of the necessary criteria for the PrC Blood Mage, which i plan to take. If i do, one of the special abilities gained is blood draught: The ability to brew potions wothin my own body. ("....As the brew potion feat with an alternate meduim...") I figured this way, i wouldn't get the same feat twice. A backup plan i have, though, is that at level 5, i will also qualify for Dragon Disciple. If i have to take brew potion, i'll just take that. The two are almos equal as far as neat toys go, so i might just take that. Ok, thanks for this bit. Now I agree with your DM. No chance of swapping feats. It would be one thing if you wanted to change it for a roleplay reason, but not so you can have more "neat toys" as you put it. :nonono: Metagaming...
Tekklas V' Netherell 03-30-04, 04:45 PM	Hmm? Metagaming, you say? I don't see how that's possible. If knowing what you get from taking a certain class before choosing it is metagaming, how would you choose your first-level core class without metagaming? Or ANY prestige class, for that matter. You wouldn't just say:"Acolyte of the skin, huh? Sounds neat! I'll take a level in it and see what happens!". Theres a difference between metagaming and knowledge.
CuCulain42 03-30-04, 04:47 PM	Originally posted by Realms Walker Personally I wouldnt allow it. I had a problem where players chose this or that and then later in the game tried to change it again.. If a DM doesnt enforce the rules of the game and stick with it players will think there characters are fluid and Can be changed if for example they make a mistake and take a Class or Feat or Spell or whatever. You Choose yer paths in game and you should live by them. What I would do though is Make the Best of the Brew Potion feat. Instead of Just ditching it MAKE USE of it. You might find that you chose right in the first place. Thats just my opinion though. I'll second this opinion, and also agree with Krelios--changing feats in the manner you are suggesting is METAGAMING.
Krelios 03-30-04, 04:49 PM	Tekklas V' Netherell, you misunderstood. If you are taking a PrC because it fit the character's story, that's fine--taking it solely for the abilities is metagaming.
Tekklas V' Netherell 03-30-04, 04:54 PM	All right, all right, sorry about that little spiel about metagaming. When i'm accused oif something i don't like, i get a little hot under the collar, and try to defend myself. I guess that WOULD count as metagaming. One of the reasons i thought of DD was that it actually fits in with my character's story (If you don't believe me, check with set, he knows). So the question is this: If a person takes a prestige class with more than one natureal weapon gained due to a template ie: dragon disciple, should you allow them to take the multiattack feat? Or would thay have to take the two-weapon fighting feat?
hexgrid 03-30-04, 05:14 PM	Originally posted by Krelios Tekklas V' Netherell, you misunderstood. If you are taking a PrC because it fit the character's story, that's fine--taking it solely for the abilities is metagaming. So what? There's absolutely nothing wrong with with choosing a prestige class because it's abilities sound cool. Some might consider that the main attraction of playing the game in the first place. As for switching the feat, I think the question that should be asked by the DM is "Will allowing the feat change have a detrimental effect on the group's overall enjoyment of the game?" If the answer is "no," and the DM still doesn't allow it, he's just being an :censored:
Realms Walker 03-30-04, 08:47 PM	I was against you wanting to change out the Brew potion feat before but Seeing your real reasons that you want to take a PrC that already basically had the Brew potion feat sounds like you are trying to have yer cake and eat it too. You will have as a result of the PrC brew potion so you want another feat to go along with it. I find that wrong and My players know never to come and ask me to do something liek what you are asking yer DM to do. GL to you and your DM because in the end it is between you 2 how you handle it. This is just my opinion.
Nick Soapdish 03-30-04, 09:10 PM	Originally posted by Tekklas V' Netherell Hmm? Metagaming, you say? I don't see how that's possible. If knowing what you get from taking a certain class before choosing it is metagaming, how would you choose your first-level core class without metagaming? Or ANY prestige class, for that matter. You wouldn't just say:"Acolyte of the skin, huh? Sounds neat! I'll take a level in it and see what happens!". Theres a difference between metagaming and knowledge. Well yeah, but wanting to switch out a feat because you anticipate getting killed, raised, which would then allow you to take a prestige class that gives the virtual benefit of that feat does sound like metagaming.
hexgrid 03-31-04, 09:16 AM	Originally posted by Realms Walker trying to have yer cake and eat it too Never once, in all my 27 years, have I been presented with a piece of cake that I wasn't allowed to eat, but I often hear others being chastised for wanting to do the same thing. Strange. :D
samoosa691 03-31-04, 08:39 PM	as long as the player hasn't used the feat the dm should allow it, i've done this many times with my dm oking it...
sembrin1 03-31-04, 10:19 PM	Our DM has stated in the past he will let us change Feats by using a Limited Wish or Wish (I forget offhand). Even if your GM is :censored::censored::censored::censored: retentive, allowing you to use a Wish to change a feat should never be a problem.
The Hanged Man 03-31-04, 10:43 PM	Originally posted by Set Since he left some stuff out:nonono:, I feel I must fill in the blanks. 1st- I've already allowed him to change some skills from one to the other. Since he did not use those, and told him it wouldn't happen again (changing skills or feats). 2nd- The only reason it is a "never used" feat is because he has not had any real time since he got it to use it. (If he didn't get time to use it, he would have not had any chance of doing anything with the Craft Wondrous Item feat.) 3rd- He had all kinds of plans to use it, then decided that the items created by the Craft Wondrous Item feat looked better and wanted to be able to make them. (He may disagree, but that is mainly how it was...) Yes, I am his DM. Well, hell. You're the DM. You're right. And there's nothing wrong with your call. But I don't see it as a big deal to let somebody swap out a feat when it turns out to be a little lame. Some of us min-max in reverse. I don't feel like penalizing players for an entire game b/c they didn't think ahead early on.