Changing Players Habits [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changing Players Habits [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
blooddemon
08-22-04, 07:31 PM Problem, How do you have players who don't rp rp?

How would you handle players that go through the game just wanting to fight. I really like to RP NPCs and such, yet, my players always get bored during the role playing. Or worse yet, they roleplay characters that are the "strong, silent type".
Is it the fact that I am a bad DM (which I don't think I am), or have Console RPGs destroyed my player's imagination, and ingrained the idea to pressing the button/Rolling the dice to attack. I tell them that I give out rewards for good roleplaying, yet my idea of good roleplaying differs from theirs. How do I get my players add a level of depth to the game, and not run around hacking and slashing every NPC that I have.
Help please, Running new Campaign later this week, after another player wanted to DM (of corse, he had absolutely no campaign, let alone module that was coherent(sp?)). Yet again, I fear, that I will have to just do another mass combat scenario(sp?) that is totally not what I wanted to run.
Sssargoth
08-22-04, 07:47 PM Give out bonus exp at the end of each game for good RP. If they dont RP with the NPCs, they dont get the bonus exp. All you need to do is give them a good incentive to interact with their surroundings beyond "Hulk MAD! HULK SMASH!":D Tell them that if they interact with the NPCs during the game, they will get xxx bounus exp, but if they don't interact, they dont get the bonus exp.

I just realized that I repeated myself a dozen times in this post. but it is good advise, and it works.
Cymraegmorgan
08-22-04, 08:59 PM If you are starting the new campaign at first level, give them plenty of combat situations for a while. Slowly, but slowly, throw the thinkum dinkum/ roleplay situations at them.
A little at a time is best, especially if the players are a bit shy by acting things out. Drawing the players out of their collective shell takes some patience.
Short sweet RP encounters followed by a lovely brawl. Another fight, then a short RP encounter where friendly NPCs ask the PCs lots of simple questions. A puzzle. An NPC that wants to duel, and blabber while doing it.
Hero of Sshamath
08-22-04, 10:31 PM I just wanted to add on to what Sssargoth and Cymraegmorgan have already said...all of which I agree with completely.

But, when in a situation where a player says,"I ask him <insert question here>"

Reply Out of Character with,"Well,ask him!!!"

It's a little "rail-roady"....:confused:... o0( Is that really a word???) but, it can work wonders...I know from personal experience.

:D
blooddemon
08-22-04, 10:41 PM I admit, some of the people in the group are okay (well alright, one, but he is really wierd, he's one of those types that will actually choose to play a female over a male :heehee:) I have UA and I will implement the trait/drawbacks, but to what ends, I'm not exactly sure...
I tell them "I GIVE OUT XP FOR ROLEPLAYING" but they don't really listen. I may be evil and implemen XP penalties for not role playing. But that is kind of evil in my opinion.
Thanks for the suggestions, I will implement one or two of them. Give more suggestions for prompting Role Playing please.
Sssargoth
08-23-04, 02:45 AM Never give exp penalties. That will slowly drive them to quit your game, trust me. Sshamath and Cymraegmorgan have great ideas from their experience as DM's, where as my experience comes from the other side of the screen, and these boards.
Arrowhen
08-23-04, 03:13 AM Each session pick out the best instance of a player roleplaying well. At first you might have to stretch your imagination a bit to find one, but hey, exercising the imagination is what DMing is all about. Even a baby step away from the mindless hack and slash is a step in the right direction, right? At the end of the session, give an XP award for that particular incident... to the whole party.

Be specific about the incident: "Hey guys, I thought it was a good bit of roleplaying on Bob's part when he gave a gold piece to that beggar child. His character was a homeless orphan before the mage's guild took him in, so even though he's normally pretty indifferent to the suffering of others, having a soft spot for street kids is really in-character for him. Because of that, everyone gets an extra 75 xp."

Giving the award to the group can help prevent the player friction that might result from individual rewards. It can also channel in a more positive direction the competitive natures that a lot of hack and slash gamers posess. When a player sits down at the table thinking "*I'm* going to earn us the roleplaying award this time!" that player is going to speak up a lot more often, jumping at roleplaying opportunities that might otherwise have passed by unnoticed.

Even if you normally don't give out xp every session, if you usually make them wait until they rest or make it back to town or whatever, give out the group RP awards in the same session they're earned. That way you don't end up saying, "Remember two weeks ago when Bob's character said... um... I mean, when he did... er.... well, it was cool, here have some xp!"

Another thing you can do is to make sure that at least some of the encounters you plan can be solved with roleplaying as well as with combat. If the players *do* manage to talk their way through an encounter, be sure that when you're handing out xp you specifically mention that encounter: "you each receive 600 xp, including 150 for talking those bandits into surrendering." This helps emphasize the idea that "overcoming" a challenge doesn't *always* mean "killing all the monsters."
Mitchell
08-23-04, 04:13 AM Some people don't really want to RP. Blame it on video games if you want to (and you may not be far off), but it's just the way some people are.

I generally agree with the positive reinforcement posts, but I dont think you should give the entire group XP for someone one player RPing (nothing personal, Arrowhen).
If one person is willing to bite the bullet and RP, then why do the rest care? I would instead advocate a small reward for good RPing, and let everyone stand on their own. This way, no player is going to get alot more XP than the others, but they will get some, and that may cause the rest to sit up and take notice. Just break it down into palatable chunks, and reward everyone who RPs well with a share, and give a bonus to the player who RPs best, something along the lines of 25 and 30.
It may not be a bad idea to make a note on who gets rewards, and if you have two players who both played well, then give the extra points to the player who has recieved the least so far.
While it may not seem like much, if the players are competitive with each other, when you tell everyone what they earned at the end of the night, no one is going to want to be shorted, and will start playing your way in order to keep up. If they don't, okay. If they do, it's all good. After a while, you can stop awarding the 25 points altogether, and just award 5 extra to the best, or since you have stopped with the extra, you could even pick two or three or even all of them to get the extra 5 points. Just make sure you announce it... "and since you all did such a good job RPing tonight, everyone gets the bonus." They will never know how many XP they should have gotten, so they will never know that they are really only getting 5 more XP, but if some of the players start to pick up old bad habits, reinstitute the full bonus and start again from square one.

The important thing is to make sure that everyone understands that they aren't being penalized, just that others are being rewarded. If they want to continue on their current path, they will get all the rewards they are due, but if they want to play a person, instead of just some stats, then there is a little something extra for them.

BTW, the "strong, silent type" isn't necessarily bad, especially if they have a low cha. Part of RPing is stats, but this cuts both ways. A player with a high cha character but low real-life cha, should not be penalized on their diplomacy check because they didn't make a good speech. You should judge everyone comparatively. If they tried, then you can give them a bonus on their roll based on this. If you feel that they didn't try at all, then maybe a penalty is in order, but you will have to be the judge based on your personal knowledge of the player.
This also means that the super puzzle and riddle solver in your group will have to keep their personal skills in their pocket if they're playing a 3 int barbarian.

Oh, let me add this real quick instead of changing a bunch of stuff up there... You can also break the bonus XP into small chunks, and on each individual basis where you feel someone did well, just give them 5. You can still cap it at 30, but this way if there is a single incident that someone did well, you can just throw them 5XP on the spot, and maybe this will encourage them more. If they get to a point that they start RPing heavy to get 30, then quit because they know there is nothing more, then stop giving spot rewards and just start tracking them. If they do good they get 5, but if they do bad later, they will lose 5. They'll still get full share, but they will have to keep RP mode on to get the extra.

I hope this makes sense.
Arrowhen
08-23-04, 10:58 AM If one person is willing to bite the bullet and RP, then why do the rest care?
Because the original poster's goal is to get the whole group to roleplay. This requires a group effort and should receive a group reward.

Right now the players are bored during roleplaying. They're going to be bored *and* resentful if they see the one player who's actually good at roleplaying getting xp while they get nothing. If, however, they see that roleplaying reaps tangible benefits for the whole group then they're not going to mind it. This will lead to a more pro-rp attitude at the table and that, in turn, will encourage the other players to try it themselves.

Those players with less finely-honed rp skills *are* going to see individual xp awards as favoritism or punishment, no matter how many times you tell them they aren't meant that way.
Kilsek of Sheverash
08-23-04, 05:20 PM Two things:

1) Set the Example for RP as DM.
2) Cater to your players' interests.

Now those two things may seem to run counter to eachother some times, but they're two very important things for most DM's and seems especially true in your case.

Players who aren't great RPers or don't like it are for the most part uncomfortable with it. Let's face it - it's like some weird combination of public speaking and acting, right up there as everyone's worst fear. You need a lot of confidence to do it well, and that comes from coaching (that's right, DM, you're the coach! :) ) as well as practice, just like in real life.

Now considering the very hack-n-slash style of your players, you have to find a happy medium. Your players truly enjoy combat, so give it to them. You really enjoy RPing, and want more of it from your players, so start putting it in places they might react to better - that is, right in the middle of combat!

Have villains and monsters say things - not monologues, but short simple insults, threats and vows, right in the middle of deadly battle. It's an RP start, especially for a very hack-n-slash group.

Eventually, most players will follow the DMs lead on RPing, and start anwering with their own verbal blasts. Don't worry if you don't get exactly what you're looking for right away - just keep RPing the monsters enough so that you get some sort of reaction.

On the exclusive RP encounters, I have to tell you, you should keep them brief or gloss over them and say they've been done (i.e. at the weaponshop, etc.).

You're better off picking one or two NPCs with a style they might gravitate too. A retired fighter or mercenary, the loca constable, weaponsmith, or evoker.

Try to develop one or two NPCs they might care about slowly. Maybe the old man at the tavern playing chess in the corner knows a lot about the local land, including its monsters, and he's always kind to the PCs and even gives them advice or even gifts or "long-dead secrets" to aiding them.

All this said... you're the DM. If you really do not want to try all these things, setting the RP example, starting small with the RP, and catering more to combat - if this isn't your style, that's okay too. DMs have styles too and you need to have FUN just as much as players. So if you're not into it, and don't want to try it or continue trying it, let the players know exactly that - the truth. Reasonable players will respect your honesty.

Good luck! :)
Jarred Garrison
08-23-04, 05:52 PM And, if all of the above fails, put them into a situation in which they gotta RP to accomplish their objectives. It´s obvious they can´t beat the Great Copper Wyrm who has captured them for their entertainment, but they may strike a bargain with her so she lets them go...
After they´ve got through it, make them see it wasn´t that hard to RP, and that they have the potential to do it. Hopefully, they´ll realize it´s not so bad.
Conaill
08-23-04, 08:08 PM LEAD BY EXAMPLE!

Seriously, when I look back over my own playing career, the games where I did my best roleplaying were the ones where the DM did a great job at roleplaying and drawing out the best from his players.

So... talk in character, engage the PCs in conversation, give vivid descriptions in combat, ham it up and don't be afraid to make a fool of yourself! Chances are your players will start to pick up on it as well...

You can't *force* your players to roleplay. You can only *lead* them.
CapnSwashbuckler
08-23-04, 08:13 PM Have you considered the possibility that maybe they just wanna play hack 'n slash? It's not too farfetched. Not everyone has your tastes.

And don't try and blame video games, hack 'n slash predates Atari.
blooddemon
08-23-04, 08:50 PM I like to have my players fight a lot, and RP a lot. I kind of want them to be like another gaming group that I'm in and we could spend 2-3 hours roleplaying in town. Though one person is trying to get laid (is that allowed to be stated), the other is getting wasted, and the other is in a brawl with a commoner. That my friends is rping!!! (minus the third one.)
Kilsek of Sheverash
08-23-04, 10:12 PM Originally posted by blooddemon
That my friends is rping!!! (minus the third one.)

lol... well yeah, and that's very cool! :)

It's just you have to remember, some players' tastes are a little different. I have some players who enjoy a few straight hours of RP, while others are okay with it once a while, while others just zone out during that.

It's important to know what each and every player is into, bc you can't assume every players is a "great D&D player who enjoys every aspect of the game." That's much more like a DM ;)

This is one big reason why I prefer smaller gaming groups of 3 PCs most of the time, occassionally 4 PCs. Honestly, it's just easier to manage as DM and give each player more attention, including more RP time for that PC's specific story, goals, and dreams.

And adding a 4th NPC to a 3 PC group is easy and fun for me as DM - I get to RP and interact with the party, encouraging their own RP, which is really the #1 goal in doing that.

I just make sure that PC party NPC ally is not as strong as the other PCs but still of average effectiveness in the party. The PCs are the stars and leaders - the NPC ally is support and RP only, and that's just a smart way to play it. Rogue and cleric usually end up the best "fill-ins" in most 3 PC parties.
Green
08-23-04, 11:30 PM As a player, I find that the greatest reward for roleplaying is roleplaying. In other words, if I got out of my way to create a three-dimensional character with a suitable history, goals, and motives, I like having that be used in the game. If I make an effort to interact IC with the story, I like it when the GM responds in kind. While I don't need to constantly be the center of attention when I'm gaming, I do like having the effort I put into the game reciprocated. A bunch of bonus XP for roleplaying doesn't really satisfy me on the same level as having my character's goals, relationships, and personal issues brought to light in the course of the game.

This is something I've increasingly done when I GM, and is one of the reasons why I much prefer smaller groups and less epic plots. There's an intimacy there that encourages more roleplaying, and it's hard to match only with tangible rewards.
Arrowhen
08-24-04, 03:30 AM Have you considered the possibility that maybe they just wanna play hack 'n slash? It's not too farfetched. Not everyone has your tastes.
Yeah, but have they considered the fact that maybe the DM wants to roleplay. It's not too farfetched. Not everyone has their tastes.

The fact is that a D&D game is a group effort. In almost any group effort there needs to be some amount of give and take, some accomodation of each others needs. Blooddemon isn't trying to *stop* the players from getting into combat altogether, but simply trying to get them to try to do some roleplaying as well.
Alexander_Dane
08-24-04, 08:06 AM STOP USING DICE!! Except for skill checks, or rolling for treasure etc. Definately no dice during combat, let the hit or miss decisions come down to how good or a story you and your players create, or roll for them after their descriptions (decretely).

After a few fights, you might find them more willing to RP, then you can give them their dice back. At the early levels this tactic works great!

Alex
Arrowhen
08-24-04, 10:05 AM STOP USING DICE!! Except for skill checks, or rolling for treasure etc. Definately no dice during combat, let the hit or miss decisions come down to how good or a story you and your players create
Yeah! And if *that* doesn't work you can chloroform them and drag them off to a powergamer deprogramming center where they'll be chained in a basement and forced to participate in method acting exercises while being beaten with White Wolf rulebooks.

Combat and roleplaying aren't mutually exclusive. They're both fun and they're both important parts of the game. The trick is to find the right balance between the two.
blooddemon
08-24-04, 11:05 AM Well, my one friend that likes to RP (the one that doesn't have a problem RPing females... I think he actually prefers playing them :looloo: which is quite disturbing) well he is going to run a Werewolf campaign, and hopefully, with its emphasis (sp?) on RPing, it may rub off on the others.
I was on another board, and one person who has a good RP group, implemented a vote style thing. Depending on the ammount of rping, he would deal out anywhere between 500xp to 2000xp. But he would have the players vote on who rped the best. He would give out full xp to the first place person, 1/2 to second place and 1/4 to third and 1/8 to fourth, so all in all they all got xp and it encouraged them to rp better than the other, making some friendly rivalry. I really like that Idea and may implement it.
Arrowhen
08-24-04, 11:32 AM he is going to run a Werewolf campaign, and hopefully, with its emphasis (sp?) on RPing, it may rub off on the others.
Heh, just be aware that Werewolf is by far the easiest of the Storyteller (ugh, just typing that word makes me want to punch a pretentious goth kid in the face) games to make combat munchkins in. Just because two thirds of the book is filled with overwrought flavor text doesn't mean a game isn't combat-heavy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
blooddemon 08-22-04, 07:31 PM	Problem, How do you have players who don't rp rp? How would you handle players that go through the game just wanting to fight. I really like to RP NPCs and such, yet, my players always get bored during the role playing. Or worse yet, they roleplay characters that are the "strong, silent type". Is it the fact that I am a bad DM (which I don't think I am), or have Console RPGs destroyed my player's imagination, and ingrained the idea to pressing the button/Rolling the dice to attack. I tell them that I give out rewards for good roleplaying, yet my idea of good roleplaying differs from theirs. How do I get my players add a level of depth to the game, and not run around hacking and slashing every NPC that I have. Help please, Running new Campaign later this week, after another player wanted to DM (of corse, he had absolutely no campaign, let alone module that was coherent(sp?)). Yet again, I fear, that I will have to just do another mass combat scenario(sp?) that is totally not what I wanted to run.
Sssargoth 08-22-04, 07:47 PM	Give out bonus exp at the end of each game for good RP. If they dont RP with the NPCs, they dont get the bonus exp. All you need to do is give them a good incentive to interact with their surroundings beyond "Hulk MAD! HULK SMASH!":D Tell them that if they interact with the NPCs during the game, they will get xxx bounus exp, but if they don't interact, they dont get the bonus exp. I just realized that I repeated myself a dozen times in this post. but it is good advise, and it works.
Cymraegmorgan 08-22-04, 08:59 PM	If you are starting the new campaign at first level, give them plenty of combat situations for a while. Slowly, but slowly, throw the thinkum dinkum/ roleplay situations at them. A little at a time is best, especially if the players are a bit shy by acting things out. Drawing the players out of their collective shell takes some patience. Short sweet RP encounters followed by a lovely brawl. Another fight, then a short RP encounter where friendly NPCs ask the PCs lots of simple questions. A puzzle. An NPC that wants to duel, and blabber while doing it.
Hero of Sshamath 08-22-04, 10:31 PM	I just wanted to add on to what Sssargoth and Cymraegmorgan have already said...all of which I agree with completely. But, when in a situation where a player says,"I ask him <insert question here>" Reply Out of Character with,"Well,ask him!!!" It's a little "rail-roady"....:confused:... o0( Is that really a word???) but, it can work wonders...I know from personal experience. :D
blooddemon 08-22-04, 10:41 PM	I admit, some of the people in the group are okay (well alright, one, but he is really wierd, he's one of those types that will actually choose to play a female over a male :heehee:) I have UA and I will implement the trait/drawbacks, but to what ends, I'm not exactly sure... I tell them "I GIVE OUT XP FOR ROLEPLAYING" but they don't really listen. I may be evil and implemen XP penalties for not role playing. But that is kind of evil in my opinion. Thanks for the suggestions, I will implement one or two of them. Give more suggestions for prompting Role Playing please.
Sssargoth 08-23-04, 02:45 AM	Never give exp penalties. That will slowly drive them to quit your game, trust me. Sshamath and Cymraegmorgan have great ideas from their experience as DM's, where as my experience comes from the other side of the screen, and these boards.
Arrowhen 08-23-04, 03:13 AM	Each session pick out the best instance of a player roleplaying well. At first you might have to stretch your imagination a bit to find one, but hey, exercising the imagination is what DMing is all about. Even a baby step away from the mindless hack and slash is a step in the right direction, right? At the end of the session, give an XP award for that particular incident... to the whole party. Be specific about the incident: "Hey guys, I thought it was a good bit of roleplaying on Bob's part when he gave a gold piece to that beggar child. His character was a homeless orphan before the mage's guild took him in, so even though he's normally pretty indifferent to the suffering of others, having a soft spot for street kids is really in-character for him. Because of that, everyone gets an extra 75 xp." Giving the award to the group can help prevent the player friction that might result from individual rewards. It can also channel in a more positive direction the competitive natures that a lot of hack and slash gamers posess. When a player sits down at the table thinking "I'm going to earn us the roleplaying award this time!" that player is going to speak up a lot more often, jumping at roleplaying opportunities that might otherwise have passed by unnoticed. Even if you normally don't give out xp every session, if you usually make them wait until they rest or make it back to town or whatever, give out the group RP awards in the same session they're earned. That way you don't end up saying, "Remember two weeks ago when Bob's character said... um... I mean, when he did... er.... well, it was cool, here have some xp!" Another thing you can do is to make sure that at least some of the encounters you plan can be solved with roleplaying as well as with combat. If the players do manage to talk their way through an encounter, be sure that when you're handing out xp you specifically mention that encounter: "you each receive 600 xp, including 150 for talking those bandits into surrendering." This helps emphasize the idea that "overcoming" a challenge doesn't always mean "killing all the monsters."
Mitchell 08-23-04, 04:13 AM	Some people don't really want to RP. Blame it on video games if you want to (and you may not be far off), but it's just the way some people are. I generally agree with the positive reinforcement posts, but I dont think you should give the entire group XP for someone one player RPing (nothing personal, Arrowhen). If one person is willing to bite the bullet and RP, then why do the rest care? I would instead advocate a small reward for good RPing, and let everyone stand on their own. This way, no player is going to get alot more XP than the others, but they will get some, and that may cause the rest to sit up and take notice. Just break it down into palatable chunks, and reward everyone who RPs well with a share, and give a bonus to the player who RPs best, something along the lines of 25 and 30. It may not be a bad idea to make a note on who gets rewards, and if you have two players who both played well, then give the extra points to the player who has recieved the least so far. While it may not seem like much, if the players are competitive with each other, when you tell everyone what they earned at the end of the night, no one is going to want to be shorted, and will start playing your way in order to keep up. If they don't, okay. If they do, it's all good. After a while, you can stop awarding the 25 points altogether, and just award 5 extra to the best, or since you have stopped with the extra, you could even pick two or three or even all of them to get the extra 5 points. Just make sure you announce it... "and since you all did such a good job RPing tonight, everyone gets the bonus." They will never know how many XP they should have gotten, so they will never know that they are really only getting 5 more XP, but if some of the players start to pick up old bad habits, reinstitute the full bonus and start again from square one. The important thing is to make sure that everyone understands that they aren't being penalized, just that others are being rewarded. If they want to continue on their current path, they will get all the rewards they are due, but if they want to play a person, instead of just some stats, then there is a little something extra for them. BTW, the "strong, silent type" isn't necessarily bad, especially if they have a low cha. Part of RPing is stats, but this cuts both ways. A player with a high cha character but low real-life cha, should not be penalized on their diplomacy check because they didn't make a good speech. You should judge everyone comparatively. If they tried, then you can give them a bonus on their roll based on this. If you feel that they didn't try at all, then maybe a penalty is in order, but you will have to be the judge based on your personal knowledge of the player. This also means that the super puzzle and riddle solver in your group will have to keep their personal skills in their pocket if they're playing a 3 int barbarian. Oh, let me add this real quick instead of changing a bunch of stuff up there... You can also break the bonus XP into small chunks, and on each individual basis where you feel someone did well, just give them 5. You can still cap it at 30, but this way if there is a single incident that someone did well, you can just throw them 5XP on the spot, and maybe this will encourage them more. If they get to a point that they start RPing heavy to get 30, then quit because they know there is nothing more, then stop giving spot rewards and just start tracking them. If they do good they get 5, but if they do bad later, they will lose 5. They'll still get full share, but they will have to keep RP mode on to get the extra. I hope this makes sense.
Arrowhen 08-23-04, 10:58 AM	If one person is willing to bite the bullet and RP, then why do the rest care? Because the original poster's goal is to get the whole group to roleplay. This requires a group effort and should receive a group reward. Right now the players are bored during roleplaying. They're going to be bored and resentful if they see the one player who's actually good at roleplaying getting xp while they get nothing. If, however, they see that roleplaying reaps tangible benefits for the whole group then they're not going to mind it. This will lead to a more pro-rp attitude at the table and that, in turn, will encourage the other players to try it themselves. Those players with less finely-honed rp skills are going to see individual xp awards as favoritism or punishment, no matter how many times you tell them they aren't meant that way.
Kilsek of Sheverash 08-23-04, 05:20 PM	Two things: 1) Set the Example for RP as DM. 2) Cater to your players' interests. Now those two things may seem to run counter to eachother some times, but they're two very important things for most DM's and seems especially true in your case. Players who aren't great RPers or don't like it are for the most part uncomfortable with it. Let's face it - it's like some weird combination of public speaking and acting, right up there as everyone's worst fear. You need a lot of confidence to do it well, and that comes from coaching (that's right, DM, you're the coach! :) ) as well as practice, just like in real life. Now considering the very hack-n-slash style of your players, you have to find a happy medium. Your players truly enjoy combat, so give it to them. You really enjoy RPing, and want more of it from your players, so start putting it in places they might react to better - that is, right in the middle of combat! Have villains and monsters say things - not monologues, but short simple insults, threats and vows, right in the middle of deadly battle. It's an RP start, especially for a very hack-n-slash group. Eventually, most players will follow the DMs lead on RPing, and start anwering with their own verbal blasts. Don't worry if you don't get exactly what you're looking for right away - just keep RPing the monsters enough so that you get some sort of reaction. On the exclusive RP encounters, I have to tell you, you should keep them brief or gloss over them and say they've been done (i.e. at the weaponshop, etc.). You're better off picking one or two NPCs with a style they might gravitate too. A retired fighter or mercenary, the loca constable, weaponsmith, or evoker. Try to develop one or two NPCs they might care about slowly. Maybe the old man at the tavern playing chess in the corner knows a lot about the local land, including its monsters, and he's always kind to the PCs and even gives them advice or even gifts or "long-dead secrets" to aiding them. All this said... you're the DM. If you really do not want to try all these things, setting the RP example, starting small with the RP, and catering more to combat - if this isn't your style, that's okay too. DMs have styles too and you need to have FUN just as much as players. So if you're not into it, and don't want to try it or continue trying it, let the players know exactly that - the truth. Reasonable players will respect your honesty. Good luck! :)
Jarred Garrison 08-23-04, 05:52 PM	And, if all of the above fails, put them into a situation in which they gotta RP to accomplish their objectives. It´s obvious they can´t beat the Great Copper Wyrm who has captured them for their entertainment, but they may strike a bargain with her so she lets them go... After they´ve got through it, make them see it wasn´t that hard to RP, and that they have the potential to do it. Hopefully, they´ll realize it´s not so bad.
Conaill 08-23-04, 08:08 PM	LEAD BY EXAMPLE! Seriously, when I look back over my own playing career, the games where I did my best roleplaying were the ones where the DM did a great job at roleplaying and drawing out the best from his players. So... talk in character, engage the PCs in conversation, give vivid descriptions in combat, ham it up and don't be afraid to make a fool of yourself! Chances are your players will start to pick up on it as well... You can't force your players to roleplay. You can only lead them.
CapnSwashbuckler 08-23-04, 08:13 PM	Have you considered the possibility that maybe they just wanna play hack 'n slash? It's not too farfetched. Not everyone has your tastes. And don't try and blame video games, hack 'n slash predates Atari.
blooddemon 08-23-04, 08:50 PM	I like to have my players fight a lot, and RP a lot. I kind of want them to be like another gaming group that I'm in and we could spend 2-3 hours roleplaying in town. Though one person is trying to get laid (is that allowed to be stated), the other is getting wasted, and the other is in a brawl with a commoner. That my friends is rping!!! (minus the third one.)
Kilsek of Sheverash 08-23-04, 10:12 PM	Originally posted by blooddemon That my friends is rping!!! (minus the third one.) lol... well yeah, and that's very cool! :) It's just you have to remember, some players' tastes are a little different. I have some players who enjoy a few straight hours of RP, while others are okay with it once a while, while others just zone out during that. It's important to know what each and every player is into, bc you can't assume every players is a "great D&D player who enjoys every aspect of the game." That's much more like a DM ;) This is one big reason why I prefer smaller gaming groups of 3 PCs most of the time, occassionally 4 PCs. Honestly, it's just easier to manage as DM and give each player more attention, including more RP time for that PC's specific story, goals, and dreams. And adding a 4th NPC to a 3 PC group is easy and fun for me as DM - I get to RP and interact with the party, encouraging their own RP, which is really the #1 goal in doing that. I just make sure that PC party NPC ally is not as strong as the other PCs but still of average effectiveness in the party. The PCs are the stars and leaders - the NPC ally is support and RP only, and that's just a smart way to play it. Rogue and cleric usually end up the best "fill-ins" in most 3 PC parties.
Green 08-23-04, 11:30 PM	As a player, I find that the greatest reward for roleplaying is roleplaying. In other words, if I got out of my way to create a three-dimensional character with a suitable history, goals, and motives, I like having that be used in the game. If I make an effort to interact IC with the story, I like it when the GM responds in kind. While I don't need to constantly be the center of attention when I'm gaming, I do like having the effort I put into the game reciprocated. A bunch of bonus XP for roleplaying doesn't really satisfy me on the same level as having my character's goals, relationships, and personal issues brought to light in the course of the game. This is something I've increasingly done when I GM, and is one of the reasons why I much prefer smaller groups and less epic plots. There's an intimacy there that encourages more roleplaying, and it's hard to match only with tangible rewards.
Arrowhen 08-24-04, 03:30 AM	Have you considered the possibility that maybe they just wanna play hack 'n slash? It's not too farfetched. Not everyone has your tastes. Yeah, but have they considered the fact that maybe the DM wants to roleplay. It's not too farfetched. Not everyone has their tastes. The fact is that a D&D game is a group effort. In almost any group effort there needs to be some amount of give and take, some accomodation of each others needs. Blooddemon isn't trying to stop the players from getting into combat altogether, but simply trying to get them to try to do some roleplaying as well.
Alexander_Dane 08-24-04, 08:06 AM	STOP USING DICE!! Except for skill checks, or rolling for treasure etc. Definately no dice during combat, let the hit or miss decisions come down to how good or a story you and your players create, or roll for them after their descriptions (decretely). After a few fights, you might find them more willing to RP, then you can give them their dice back. At the early levels this tactic works great! Alex
Arrowhen 08-24-04, 10:05 AM	STOP USING DICE!! Except for skill checks, or rolling for treasure etc. Definately no dice during combat, let the hit or miss decisions come down to how good or a story you and your players create Yeah! And if that doesn't work you can chloroform them and drag them off to a powergamer deprogramming center where they'll be chained in a basement and forced to participate in method acting exercises while being beaten with White Wolf rulebooks. Combat and roleplaying aren't mutually exclusive. They're both fun and they're both important parts of the game. The trick is to find the right balance between the two.
blooddemon 08-24-04, 11:05 AM	Well, my one friend that likes to RP (the one that doesn't have a problem RPing females... I think he actually prefers playing them :looloo: which is quite disturbing) well he is going to run a Werewolf campaign, and hopefully, with its emphasis (sp?) on RPing, it may rub off on the others. I was on another board, and one person who has a good RP group, implemented a vote style thing. Depending on the ammount of rping, he would deal out anywhere between 500xp to 2000xp. But he would have the players vote on who rped the best. He would give out full xp to the first place person, 1/2 to second place and 1/4 to third and 1/8 to fourth, so all in all they all got xp and it encouraged them to rp better than the other, making some friendly rivalry. I really like that Idea and may implement it.
Arrowhen 08-24-04, 11:32 AM	he is going to run a Werewolf campaign, and hopefully, with its emphasis (sp?) on RPing, it may rub off on the others. Heh, just be aware that Werewolf is by far the easiest of the Storyteller (ugh, just typing that word makes me want to punch a pretentious goth kid in the face) games to make combat munchkins in. Just because two thirds of the book is filled with overwrought flavor text doesn't mean a game isn't combat-heavy.