Changing the Pace [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changing the Pace [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arco Versipellis
03-01-07, 03:11 PM Recently, my group got their first taste of epic level play. However, on of my two players found another interested person. While the rookie did pretty well at running the epic level monk, presumably because of her background in computer games, I felt it would be in her best interest to play at lower levels.

The epic level sessions had been reduced to mindless blasting, which I assume is just as much my "fault" as anyone elses, as I was getting used to the high level monsters and dealng with plethoras of ninth level spells. Everyone noticed the change, and I think it has made my players appreciate some aspects of lower level play, namely the fact that it is easy to just sit back and play.

I have decided to change up the pace on them though. At high levels, they were serverly underestimating the power of magic, such as divinations. The dread necromancer never did understand how all of enemies knew where his precious life force was "hidden" or why he should waste time acquiring nondetection for it.

I want them to see that the world exists outside of battle. I want to give them the chance to use divininations and ambushes without force feeding it to them. Also, I want to play up some of the exploration themes, especially in making their way around the dungeon. I know my players, and I know that I put them against the right background, their roleplaying will improve dramatically. However, I am crossing into new territory myself. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-01-07, 07:03 PM Well, they're allowed checks to see scrying sensors (read the Divination school's Scrying subschool description). Realizing that someone's watching them should be the first thing to tip them off.

Another one is nonsubtle assailants. The moment a party member splits up from the rest of the group, have some high-level thugs subdue and capture him (a single failed save against a hold monster gives them time to slap some adamantine shackles on him), then hold him ransom for some of the party's major magic items, and make the note clearly indicate that they have access to this sort of divination (i.e., "Contained is a list of the meals of each individual in your group for the last month, just so you know we're serious about you dropping the ransom without any funny business."). Also, try to leave treasure that actually does this stuff, all spell scrolls that will be found at their level have 1d6 spells on them (you're bound to roll up at least one nonevocation spell each time), and you can always "theme" a scroll with scrying or antiscrying spells.

Also remember to mix up encounters a bit. You can assign a challenge rating to things other than combat, like roleplaying and puzzles. All that's different is that at epic levels you make the consequences for blowing things up very severe (for instance, if they destroy adamantine walls in anyplace that's even remotely used, they get charged for it by the owners, or make a ruin that's covered with runes that'll bounce magic right back at anyone that tries to destroy them).
Cyanide300
03-01-07, 07:39 PM Puzzle's and riddles are always a good break from combat. The player's can't force their way through a well made puzzle or riddle. Also, if they like fast pacing you can get yourself an egg timer and when a puzzle or riddle has a time limit, do it in real time.

Also, I found that my players enjoyed using down time to build a fortress using the rules in the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. You can introduce something like this at virtually any level. Perhaps it's a fixer-upper castle ruin at first, and as the player's level and gain wealth, they can add to it. If you introduce it at higher levels, perhaps the PCs are rewarded with a well located plot of land after completing a quest. Introduce them to the idea of building a stronghold. If they question why they should bother, emphasize that it can be used to make money (taxing people who live on your land, running a mine, etc) and it provides a secure place to store items or hold prisoners. Make sure to involve the fortress in other parts of the game from time to time, and try to encourage personalization of the design. This creates a sense of ownership, which is a very powerful emotion. In fact, it's the same one that attaches players to their characters.

In terms of game pacing, you want to split up your questing time (combat, dungeon crawling, etc) with a good mix of more relaxed down time. This is when you allow players to look for new items they might want to acquire, or work on their fortress, etc. Also, you can break up higher stress time periods by roleplaying things like gather information checks and diplomacy checks.
Arco Versipellis
03-02-07, 11:55 AM I had not thought about capturing one of them. I'll definately give that a try, and that note about the meals is definately what I was looking for.

I would love to use more puzzles and riddles, but I found that developing them takes me forever. I used to have a link to a website that had several suggestions and examples, but I've lost it. My players have been similarly interested in strongholds; my dread necromancer loved the mansion overlooking a cemmtery I gave him, and he was distraught when a NPC broke through one of his stained glass windows. However, lately many of them have been slack on keeping up with their records, and I feel this would just put more weight on them.

Thanks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arco Versipellis 03-01-07, 03:11 PM	Recently, my group got their first taste of epic level play. However, on of my two players found another interested person. While the rookie did pretty well at running the epic level monk, presumably because of her background in computer games, I felt it would be in her best interest to play at lower levels. The epic level sessions had been reduced to mindless blasting, which I assume is just as much my "fault" as anyone elses, as I was getting used to the high level monsters and dealng with plethoras of ninth level spells. Everyone noticed the change, and I think it has made my players appreciate some aspects of lower level play, namely the fact that it is easy to just sit back and play. I have decided to change up the pace on them though. At high levels, they were serverly underestimating the power of magic, such as divinations. The dread necromancer never did understand how all of enemies knew where his precious life force was "hidden" or why he should waste time acquiring nondetection for it. I want them to see that the world exists outside of battle. I want to give them the chance to use divininations and ambushes without force feeding it to them. Also, I want to play up some of the exploration themes, especially in making their way around the dungeon. I know my players, and I know that I put them against the right background, their roleplaying will improve dramatically. However, I am crossing into new territory myself. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-01-07, 07:03 PM	Well, they're allowed checks to see scrying sensors (read the Divination school's Scrying subschool description). Realizing that someone's watching them should be the first thing to tip them off. Another one is nonsubtle assailants. The moment a party member splits up from the rest of the group, have some high-level thugs subdue and capture him (a single failed save against a hold monster gives them time to slap some adamantine shackles on him), then hold him ransom for some of the party's major magic items, and make the note clearly indicate that they have access to this sort of divination (i.e., "Contained is a list of the meals of each individual in your group for the last month, just so you know we're serious about you dropping the ransom without any funny business."). Also, try to leave treasure that actually does this stuff, all spell scrolls that will be found at their level have 1d6 spells on them (you're bound to roll up at least one nonevocation spell each time), and you can always "theme" a scroll with scrying or antiscrying spells. Also remember to mix up encounters a bit. You can assign a challenge rating to things other than combat, like roleplaying and puzzles. All that's different is that at epic levels you make the consequences for blowing things up very severe (for instance, if they destroy adamantine walls in anyplace that's even remotely used, they get charged for it by the owners, or make a ruin that's covered with runes that'll bounce magic right back at anyone that tries to destroy them).
Cyanide300 03-01-07, 07:39 PM	Puzzle's and riddles are always a good break from combat. The player's can't force their way through a well made puzzle or riddle. Also, if they like fast pacing you can get yourself an egg timer and when a puzzle or riddle has a time limit, do it in real time. Also, I found that my players enjoyed using down time to build a fortress using the rules in the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. You can introduce something like this at virtually any level. Perhaps it's a fixer-upper castle ruin at first, and as the player's level and gain wealth, they can add to it. If you introduce it at higher levels, perhaps the PCs are rewarded with a well located plot of land after completing a quest. Introduce them to the idea of building a stronghold. If they question why they should bother, emphasize that it can be used to make money (taxing people who live on your land, running a mine, etc) and it provides a secure place to store items or hold prisoners. Make sure to involve the fortress in other parts of the game from time to time, and try to encourage personalization of the design. This creates a sense of ownership, which is a very powerful emotion. In fact, it's the same one that attaches players to their characters. In terms of game pacing, you want to split up your questing time (combat, dungeon crawling, etc) with a good mix of more relaxed down time. This is when you allow players to look for new items they might want to acquire, or work on their fortress, etc. Also, you can break up higher stress time periods by roleplaying things like gather information checks and diplomacy checks.
Arco Versipellis 03-02-07, 11:55 AM	I had not thought about capturing one of them. I'll definately give that a try, and that note about the meals is definately what I was looking for. I would love to use more puzzles and riddles, but I found that developing them takes me forever. I used to have a link to a website that had several suggestions and examples, but I've lost it. My players have been similarly interested in strongholds; my dread necromancer loved the mansion overlooking a cemmtery I gave him, and he was distraught when a NPC broke through one of his stained glass windows. However, lately many of them have been slack on keeping up with their records, and I feel this would just put more weight on them. Thanks.