Changing your mind [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changing your mind [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Eliza_Stormwhisper
04-01-05, 02:35 AM I didn't really know what to name this topic. Also, as I write this very sentence, I'm not really sure how to organize my thoughts (remember, I couldn't think of a good title) into a post that makes sense. However, I'll give it a try.

Imagine this situation: a player tries to do something for which there's nothing even close to a rule. Trying to be nice, I attempt to make up a rule that seems to make sense, and we use it for a bit. I then decide later that this rule makes no sense at all, and wish to change it. How should I address this issue with the players?
Vharuck
04-01-05, 02:46 AM The exact same way you did here. Admit that you pulled it out of thin air and now regret it. Then propose a replacement. Might I ask what it was?
MortalPlague
04-01-05, 02:47 AM I've had that happen countless times. Just be matter-of-fact about it, be sure to be clear, and be firm in your change.

And yes, I'm curiuos what it was, too.
Eliza_Stormwhisper
04-01-05, 02:49 AM The exact same way you did here. Admit that you pulled it out of thin air and now regret it. Then propose a replacement. Might I ask what it was?

I was allowing blatant abuse of the 1st-level spell, identify. That's just one of many, though, and there are countless more.
Asciiman
04-01-05, 04:23 AM Oh.

Don't worry about that. Honestly we all have done it and probably still do it. These things are to be expected really. All you do is be honest, and tell everyone you're changing back to the way it is written.

You see, when you decide to start DMing, you read the books over and over, but you don't actually know anything. You start learning when you start playing, and as long as you are trying to constantly improve, with things like this, you'll do fine.

Things like this are the sign of a good DM.
Kheldren
04-01-05, 04:23 AM The main thing is to tell your players when you start applying the new ruling. This is best done at the end or beginning of a session and not in the middle (unless there is a reasonable break point).
VerinBlod
04-01-05, 08:41 AM Yes don't worry about it. We all do that from time to time. The best thing to do if you have to make up a rule than just tell your players that it's for this session only and that you will give a definitive ruling next time you play.

This works realy well for our group as it helps to speed up combat.
Phrennzy
04-01-05, 09:41 AM Yep, tell the players.

I do it all the time as we struggle with learning all the rules.

I just found out that a 5' step can be taken in any direction, including the diagonals, not just the directly adjacent.

So I told the guys at the start of the session.

One thing that I have told my guys is that any 'off-the-cuff' answer I give during the game may be for that one specific instance, because I may find the ruling later, and so don't expect to be able to do it exactly that way next time.
Bartleby_GoC
04-01-05, 09:49 AM I've let my players know that I reserve the right to change anything I feel like changing. However, I've also promised tham that nothing will be changed retroactively, and I think that's very important. They know I make mistakes. They're all power gamers, so they read up on the material looking for every possible loophole. In order to avoid 3 hour rule discussions, I make the call and we move on. If it turns out I'm wrong, I apologize and we do things differently the next time the situation pops up.

I use the same deal for changes I want. We started using the alternate turning system from COmplete Divine a few sessions back. After an overly easy encounter with a vampire, I decided turn resistance was goign to work differently than the description in the book. Vampire's still dead and they keep the XP and treasure. Next time, however, won't be nearly as easy.

Bartleby
BW0222
04-01-05, 10:48 AM Just encourage players to phrase them as information gathering requests rather than actions.

Rather than say "I run and jump through the window." encourage them to ask before doing something. For example, "Does my character think he can run and jump through the window." It gives you a chance to say, "It awefully small [thinking that they need a DC 20 as a jump check] and you have no idea of how thick the glass might be [thinking that it has 3hp and they'll only do 1d6 of damage to it]."

If they don't ask, and they have time to think about it, you can honestly volunteer that information. "Gurok is wondering if making a rope ladder out of that burnt wood is such a good idea."

Other than that, try not coming up with too many rulings not based on the book. It's hard to think of all the future concequences, uses, or abuses of a ruling.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eliza_Stormwhisper 04-01-05, 02:35 AM	I didn't really know what to name this topic. Also, as I write this very sentence, I'm not really sure how to organize my thoughts (remember, I couldn't think of a good title) into a post that makes sense. However, I'll give it a try. Imagine this situation: a player tries to do something for which there's nothing even close to a rule. Trying to be nice, I attempt to make up a rule that seems to make sense, and we use it for a bit. I then decide later that this rule makes no sense at all, and wish to change it. How should I address this issue with the players?
Vharuck 04-01-05, 02:46 AM	The exact same way you did here. Admit that you pulled it out of thin air and now regret it. Then propose a replacement. Might I ask what it was?
MortalPlague 04-01-05, 02:47 AM	I've had that happen countless times. Just be matter-of-fact about it, be sure to be clear, and be firm in your change. And yes, I'm curiuos what it was, too.
Eliza_Stormwhisper 04-01-05, 02:49 AM	The exact same way you did here. Admit that you pulled it out of thin air and now regret it. Then propose a replacement. Might I ask what it was? I was allowing blatant abuse of the 1st-level spell, identify. That's just one of many, though, and there are countless more.
Asciiman 04-01-05, 04:23 AM	Oh. Don't worry about that. Honestly we all have done it and probably still do it. These things are to be expected really. All you do is be honest, and tell everyone you're changing back to the way it is written. You see, when you decide to start DMing, you read the books over and over, but you don't actually know anything. You start learning when you start playing, and as long as you are trying to constantly improve, with things like this, you'll do fine. Things like this are the sign of a good DM.
Kheldren 04-01-05, 04:23 AM	The main thing is to tell your players when you start applying the new ruling. This is best done at the end or beginning of a session and not in the middle (unless there is a reasonable break point).
VerinBlod 04-01-05, 08:41 AM	Yes don't worry about it. We all do that from time to time. The best thing to do if you have to make up a rule than just tell your players that it's for this session only and that you will give a definitive ruling next time you play. This works realy well for our group as it helps to speed up combat.
Phrennzy 04-01-05, 09:41 AM	Yep, tell the players. I do it all the time as we struggle with learning all the rules. I just found out that a 5' step can be taken in any direction, including the diagonals, not just the directly adjacent. So I told the guys at the start of the session. One thing that I have told my guys is that any 'off-the-cuff' answer I give during the game may be for that one specific instance, because I may find the ruling later, and so don't expect to be able to do it exactly that way next time.
Bartleby_GoC 04-01-05, 09:49 AM	I've let my players know that I reserve the right to change anything I feel like changing. However, I've also promised tham that nothing will be changed retroactively, and I think that's very important. They know I make mistakes. They're all power gamers, so they read up on the material looking for every possible loophole. In order to avoid 3 hour rule discussions, I make the call and we move on. If it turns out I'm wrong, I apologize and we do things differently the next time the situation pops up. I use the same deal for changes I want. We started using the alternate turning system from COmplete Divine a few sessions back. After an overly easy encounter with a vampire, I decided turn resistance was goign to work differently than the description in the book. Vampire's still dead and they keep the XP and treasure. Next time, however, won't be nearly as easy. Bartleby
BW0222 04-01-05, 10:48 AM	Just encourage players to phrase them as information gathering requests rather than actions. Rather than say "I run and jump through the window." encourage them to ask before doing something. For example, "Does my character think he can run and jump through the window." It gives you a chance to say, "It awefully small [thinking that they need a DC 20 as a jump check] and you have no idea of how thick the glass might be [thinking that it has 3hp and they'll only do 1d6 of damage to it]." If they don't ask, and they have time to think about it, you can honestly volunteer that information. "Gurok is wondering if making a rope ladder out of that burnt wood is such a good idea." Other than that, try not coming up with too many rulings not based on the book. It's hard to think of all the future concequences, uses, or abuses of a ruling.