Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maniacal_Cackle 01-24-07, 02:35 AM	Okay, I keep trying to come up with a world idea, and I keep arriving at the same one... Vampires have the usual reputation of being evil, bloodsucking... Well, vampires! In reality, however, they are a secret society that defends the world against demons (or devils, or Yugoloths, or something. Open to suggestions :D ) This, however, poses a few problems... First off, if the PCs learn of this, they might want to become vampires themselves... I'm not sure if I would let them, but how would one go about running a campaign for vampires? Would that work? I'm thinking I should buy Libris Mortis. Second off, what would the vampires use as a food source? I was thinking they would be vigilantes bringing justice to evil-doers via sucking their blood out! Finally, wouldn't the criminals that get drained of their blood become vampires? I think I should just rewrite the rules to make it so you have to perform a ritual with a vampire to become one. Any other thoughts on foreseeable problems?
Cantankerous 01-24-07, 02:45 AM	Why would they need to be anything but Evil? Maybe they simply don't want the competition and ACTING as though they are Good makes it even easier for them to hunt. "Yes, Sir Knight, it's true. We, my bretheren and I, abhor what we have become. We feed on sheep, cattle... in many respects like yourselves, and we have dedicated ourselves to protecting mankind, less we become monsters ourselves." "Is he gone? Good, break out the twin boys from that croft in the last valley who's parents sent them with us as apprentices. This is the sweetest scam you've come up with Whorl" The thing is, since they are undead, no matter what their alignment was (as sometimes happens with ghosts) they show up as Evil to a Detect Evil spell. Anybody with the spell and even a minimal Spellcraft KNOWS this too, so if they are convincing enough... You don't need any sources books to do this, although the Liber Mortis is a great one for ideas and flavor portions, but you could run this easily with Core only. Isshia
Maniacal_Cackle 01-24-07, 02:48 AM	Oh, the whole good vampire thing was one of the most appealing aspects. While deceptive vampires is fun too, I ran a deceptive campaign recently, so would rather go with the good vampire twist. Another thing- What would the vampires do when they get low on blood? Presumably joining vampire-hood would be pretty exclusive, so perhaps only extraodrinarily self-controlled individuals would be vampires.
ZombieDragon 01-24-07, 03:11 AM	Hiding : Make them incredibly secretive group . The locals would think they are evil and they would still be hunted(like in van helsing). Rogue individual vampires would either be forced to join or be destroyed (interview with a vampire). Feeding : 1) could be taken care of by blood farms (Blade the series). The vampires would bring back their evil prey. Then they would be slowly drained, and kept at a blood level of borderline sustanability. 2) they could learn to havest animal blood. 3) Or they could create a psuedo blood and a spells like create blood and purify blood. Pc interaction : They Pcs would probably go by the locals ideals and stories and believe the spawn were evil. You could either 1) continue this lie or 2) when/if you are ready to let them join the secret society, make becoming a vampire a Prc 10 levels with a HD like 1d6 until the became true undead at 10th level and subtract 8hd and replace the rest with d12's Low on blood : 1) hit point loss per round. 2) Hunger builds until they lash out and feed, at which point the move toward rogue evil
ratslinky 01-24-07, 07:57 AM	You could take a leaf out of Eberron for the feeding at least and have them feed off willing individuals. You sap half their HP then let them heal naturally. Can't think of much else right now but it's late so I'm going to bed.
Andorxor 01-24-07, 08:08 AM	A hallowed feeding place with deeper darkness.
penchant 01-24-07, 09:05 AM	D&D vampires are all evil. They feed on levels not blood. Animals do not have levels unless they are sentient. Vampires can only subsist by feeding on sentient life. This makes them evil. Always. There are a few undead with open alignments like ghosts. But all undead that feed on the living are always evil. Instead of using vampires (You were thinking of the Anne Rice types, right?) create a new type of undead. In a game I was running, I created an undead type called flame wraiths which had open alignments because they were partially elemental as well as undead. They had no feeding requirement but healed only in exposure to fire or neg energy spells.
Cantankerous 01-24-07, 09:51 AM	D&D vampires are all evil. They feed on levels not blood. Animals do not have levels unless they are sentient. Vampires can only subsist by feeding on sentient life. This makes them evil. Always. There are a few undead with open alignments like ghosts. But all undead that feed on the living are always evil. Instead of using vampires (You were thinking of the Anne Rice types, right?) create a new type of undead. Technicly speaking this is not correct. It's optional only. If you use the Liber Mortis they have a section it talking about dietary requirements, inescapable cravings and the like, of which the vampire has both the cravings (for life force) and the dietary requirement for blood (Constitution Drain), but the Monster Manual 1 itself does NOT require vampires to feed at all, period. The closest you come to an actual game requirement then is the dietary one for consuming blood (Con drain), not levels. THAT is more of an addiction situation, like a heroine or cocaine addiction, but magnified. Only blood, which can be gotten from any mammalian, reptilian, or other blood bearing creature, not just sapient ones, is really REQUIRED by the Liber Mortis. Still, by the Core RAW there is NO REQUIREMENT for a vampire to feed at all. Isshia
Finarin Panjoro 01-24-07, 10:12 AM	I recommend Libris Mortis. Good book with lots of things that would help you in this endeavor. Also you might look at this article I wrote for Regdar's to help give you some ideas (Vampires as PCs (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=770145)).
RobbyPants 01-24-07, 10:54 AM	Okay, I keep trying to come up with a world idea, and I keep arriving at the same one... Vampires have the usual reputation of being evil, bloodsucking... Well, vampires! In reality, however, they are a secret society that defends the world against demons (or devils, or Yugoloths, or something. Open to suggestions :D ) This, however, poses a few problems... First off, if the PCs learn of this, they might want to become vampires themselves... I'm not sure if I would let them, but how would one go about running a campaign for vampires? Would that work? I'm thinking I should buy Libris Mortis. Well, my modified vampire template (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=708607) takes most of these concerns into account, but with a minor amount of clarification and/or changes, standard MM vampires can be better understood. The way I handle alingment is to have the newly risen vampire roll a Will save (the DC is 10 + 1/2 their creator's level + their creator's Cha mod). If they succeed, they retain their alignment (although future actions may change it). If they fail, the second half of their alignment changes to evil (they maintain the first half in regard to law and chaos). This little rule could be added to vampires pretty easily. Don't forget that a vampire is under control of its creator, so they could still be compelled to do evil things. Another thing I'd added in is that the master can only control its spawn if it has more levels/HD than the spawn (so a high enough level PC might not need to worry about control). Second off, what would the vampires use as a food source? I was thinking they would be vigilantes bringing justice to evil-doers via sucking their blood out! Again, in my template, I handle it a bit differently. They get their food from blood, and I've removed the energy drain completely (figuring the blood drain is sufficient). This is largely a flavor thing for me, as I allow wights to do energy drain. Drinking from evil doers is still questionable, as they're intelligent (this would be up to the DM for any given game). Consider drinking form cattle. While this could be considered crude and barbaric, large livestock could tolerate more blood drain, and the vampires could alternate which ones they use, to prevent from killing them. Finally, wouldn't the criminals that get drained of their blood become vampires? I think I should just rewrite the rules to make it so you have to perform a ritual with a vampire to become one. Any other thoughts on foreseeable problems? The way I've handled them, yes, they would rise if slain by blood drain, but only after a proper burial. This could be prevented by burning or decapitating the victem before burial (although this could anger the authorities a bit :P). Anyway, that's just how I handle them in my game. Feel free to use what you want of this and/or my template. Have fun! :D Edit: In case any of you care, I actually ran something like this in my last two sessions of my current game. An NPC that is close to one of the PCs in my game got turned into a vampire. They discovered this a bit too late, but luckily for them, she did not become evil. She hid in her basment feeding on rats, ashamed of what she was, and afraid that her creator would come to claim her (as was promised before she was slain). The PCs killed her creator, and traveled to a city with a cleric powerful enough to cast Ressurection. Her father was wealthy enough to afford this. So once she got there, they staked and decapitated her (she must be dead first to be raised), and then ressurected her. It was a pretty fun little adventure. I only brought it up because it involved a remorseful vampire that retained her alignment.
penchant 01-24-07, 11:26 AM	I recommend Libris Mortis. Good book with lots of things that would help you in this endeavor. Also you might look at this article I wrote for Regdar's to help give you some ideas (Vampires as PCs (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=770145)). This book is, like most, optional and not core rules. Vampires in the Monstrous Manual I are core rules. I have always been vehemently against good vampires. Even in the guise you suggest, it is an undead that craves the blood of the living and is able to propigate itself endlessly.
Cantankerous 01-24-07, 11:32 AM	Within an individual group even the Core Rules are optional, so while it is true that the Vampire is listed as "Always evil (any)", an individual DM is completely at liberty to alter this. The Core RAW is NOT in any way sacrosanct. As an example of that: the vampire also has no feeding requirements at all as per the Core RAW. Isshia
Krusk 01-24-07, 01:33 PM	Finally, wouldn't the criminals that get drained of their blood become vampires? I think I should just rewrite the rules to make it so you have to perform a ritual with a vampire to become one. Any other thoughts on foreseeable problems? to solve this the vampires lop the head off when they are done feeding. Ritual done. Now anyone they dont want becoming a vampire wont.
DeathsAudit 01-24-07, 05:25 PM	Only Drow can be CG vamps, no matter how evil in life all but one are CG.