Character Creation with New Players: Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Character Creation with New Players: Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wolghan
01-17-06, 01:05 AM I just had a gaming session with a group of new players who were interested in playing D&D (Or at least trying it out). Now I know the first day is usually the longest one, or at least it feels that way, since you're explaining your players what AC means and all the skills and whatnot. This isn't necessarily hard or anything, and it doesn't have to be tedious... My players were eager to play and they had some character ideas already in their minds so the process wasn't so boring for them (Or for me). I taught them the basics, went over the skills, the spells and it finally came down to the feats.

Feats are a little harder to explain to new players, not what they are but they see a long list and get discouraged, also, it's a point in character creation when they have spent time and they want to get to the game already. Aside from that, remember these are new players: They are not only eager to play, you have also shown them a lot of material, a lot of rules and mechanics that might sway them away from playing the game because they feel there's too many rules to it and is far too complicated for them. Since I found myself in this situation I asked them what they thought their character focused more on... Or some characteristic they thought their character had and see if we could assign a feat for it, if non came to mind I just suggested one for them and told them they could change it later on (Just this time, since they're new to the game) if they didn't like it.

My question is, what do you do when it comes to explaining and assigning feats to new players, when you want them to pick a good choice and learn to play the game right, and at the same time you feel the need to speed things up so they don't lose the enthusiasm they had in the game because of all these rules you're showing them?
Fixxxer
01-17-06, 01:17 AM Well, you could always point them towards the PC suggestions at the end of every class description. These contain basic feat selections and they might just decide to use that as a guideline.
JohnJohn
01-17-06, 01:26 AM If I have a new player coming in and I am the DM and we already have experienced players or an established group I tend to make a pregenerated character for them. The first time a new player sits down and tries to play it can be overwhelming for them. Throw in character creation and their eyes tend to glaze over...

I try and find out what kind of character they want to play (warrior type, wizard type or something else and also let em think about race. Human okay or do they read fantasy and want to try an elf or hobbit/halfling).

By having a pregenerated character I as DM can keep track of what they have and can make sugestions as to actions they can take during play. The player can watch the other players and can see what skills/feats they use during play and that can spur questions and they can learn through that. The player can see feats in action and see what they like or dont like.

If they like the game and come back we can then sit down and go through character creation. Having experienced the game some it becomes a lot easier explaining things and they have a better idea of the kind of skills and feats they want.

The big problem with new players is you want to fan their interest in the game but if you throw too many details at them or they get too confused they give up and they never want to play again something always comes up when you try and get them back.
Lord Ian Stark
01-17-06, 01:27 AM Perhaps (even though it's too late now) premade characters would have been good to learn the basics of the game. Then when they saw it in motion they would better understand what they were writing down on the sheet when making characters.

Feats. Well I would describe them as what do you think your character would want to do better than the average X (X = there class).
Lady Maedhros
01-17-06, 02:06 AM Always start simple.

Passive feats are best for beginners. Things like Toughness, +2/+2 feats, Skill Focus, Great Fortitude - anything that they can just write on their character sheet and forget about. If you have a rogue in the party, point him at Weapon Finesse. If you have a fighter, Weapon Focus. For casters... well, i advise strongly against letting someone who's never played D&D before jump right in with a full caster, particularly a sorcerer or wizard. Druid's okay (Skill Focus: Concentration), but until you've played for a while, your ability to evaluate what spells are useful to learn and what you can do to be effective in a situation (particularly with arcanes) makes the game frustrating at best.

Also, never ever ever plan on the introductory campaign lasting. Don't fudge a single roll and they're likely to all be dead by fourth level - this is good. Puts the fear of God in them, but also, allows them to move on, and not be trapped by the choices they've made once they develop a play style.

A really good thing to do is have at least one player who knows the game roll up a PC as well - this person is perfect to play the bard, cleric or wizard, although at low levels bard or cleric is probably best, since he can stay in the background buffing, and be a party face when they interact with PCs. That way, you can model good DM-PC interaction instead of just explaining it, which helps make things a lot clearer to players.

And for in the name of the Seven Mounting Heavens, don't be a jackoff about "metagaming." My first DM was like that. A player would join our group and have been playing for about two weeks. God forbid, though, that i suggest to her in combat that she remember to use her Power Attack feat against the low AC monster. No, that was metagaming. :rolleyes: Don't be that DM. Remind your players regularly that if they're not sure what they can do in a situation (not what they should do, mind you), that they should pipe up, and if they've taken an active feat or have a class ability and haven't been using it, remember that it's not Player vs. DM and it's okay to remind them.
j_gunder
01-17-06, 02:23 AM My most recent campaign was run with five PCs, three of which had never played Dnd and two more who hadn't played since 2e. For the vets, I didn't have to explain too much. Most feats are the kinds of things that 2e DMs houseruled. For the new players, however, I did the following:

1. They got to choose their class. I explained the different classes and the level of difficulty in playing each one (fighter-types: easy, spellcasters: hard).

2. I let them assign an elite array based on how they saw their character, then later told them what bonuses they achieved with their stat placement. I also gave them the opportunity after a session or two to change their stat placement if they thought that it would suit their character better.

3. Skills: I assigned a set of basic in-class skills, and let the players change them after a few sessions if I gave them a skill they never used. Once the players understood how skill checks worked (through playing), I let them choose their own skills.

4. Feats: Pretty much the same as skills. I assigned them basic feats, but ones that required some thought: power attack, combat expertise, for instance...and highlighted them on the character sheet. That way they could test the usefulness of feats, compare it to other feats that gave similar abilities, and then choose their own later. I would let them swap out a feat after a game or two if they had one that didn't suit their character.

This seemed to work to everyone's liking. The veteran gamers got to customize as much as the wanted, the rookies got to test out several skills and feats while playing to find out what they liked. By level four, I told them that all of their future decisions would be final...which seemed like enough time.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wolghan 01-17-06, 01:05 AM	I just had a gaming session with a group of new players who were interested in playing D&D (Or at least trying it out). Now I know the first day is usually the longest one, or at least it feels that way, since you're explaining your players what AC means and all the skills and whatnot. This isn't necessarily hard or anything, and it doesn't have to be tedious... My players were eager to play and they had some character ideas already in their minds so the process wasn't so boring for them (Or for me). I taught them the basics, went over the skills, the spells and it finally came down to the feats. Feats are a little harder to explain to new players, not what they are but they see a long list and get discouraged, also, it's a point in character creation when they have spent time and they want to get to the game already. Aside from that, remember these are new players: They are not only eager to play, you have also shown them a lot of material, a lot of rules and mechanics that might sway them away from playing the game because they feel there's too many rules to it and is far too complicated for them. Since I found myself in this situation I asked them what they thought their character focused more on... Or some characteristic they thought their character had and see if we could assign a feat for it, if non came to mind I just suggested one for them and told them they could change it later on (Just this time, since they're new to the game) if they didn't like it. My question is, what do you do when it comes to explaining and assigning feats to new players, when you want them to pick a good choice and learn to play the game right, and at the same time you feel the need to speed things up so they don't lose the enthusiasm they had in the game because of all these rules you're showing them?
Fixxxer 01-17-06, 01:17 AM	Well, you could always point them towards the PC suggestions at the end of every class description. These contain basic feat selections and they might just decide to use that as a guideline.
JohnJohn 01-17-06, 01:26 AM	If I have a new player coming in and I am the DM and we already have experienced players or an established group I tend to make a pregenerated character for them. The first time a new player sits down and tries to play it can be overwhelming for them. Throw in character creation and their eyes tend to glaze over... I try and find out what kind of character they want to play (warrior type, wizard type or something else and also let em think about race. Human okay or do they read fantasy and want to try an elf or hobbit/halfling). By having a pregenerated character I as DM can keep track of what they have and can make sugestions as to actions they can take during play. The player can watch the other players and can see what skills/feats they use during play and that can spur questions and they can learn through that. The player can see feats in action and see what they like or dont like. If they like the game and come back we can then sit down and go through character creation. Having experienced the game some it becomes a lot easier explaining things and they have a better idea of the kind of skills and feats they want. The big problem with new players is you want to fan their interest in the game but if you throw too many details at them or they get too confused they give up and they never want to play again something always comes up when you try and get them back.
Lord Ian Stark 01-17-06, 01:27 AM	Perhaps (even though it's too late now) premade characters would have been good to learn the basics of the game. Then when they saw it in motion they would better understand what they were writing down on the sheet when making characters. Feats. Well I would describe them as what do you think your character would want to do better than the average X (X = there class).
Lady Maedhros 01-17-06, 02:06 AM	Always start simple. Passive feats are best for beginners. Things like Toughness, +2/+2 feats, Skill Focus, Great Fortitude - anything that they can just write on their character sheet and forget about. If you have a rogue in the party, point him at Weapon Finesse. If you have a fighter, Weapon Focus. For casters... well, i advise strongly against letting someone who's never played D&D before jump right in with a full caster, particularly a sorcerer or wizard. Druid's okay (Skill Focus: Concentration), but until you've played for a while, your ability to evaluate what spells are useful to learn and what you can do to be effective in a situation (particularly with arcanes) makes the game frustrating at best. Also, never ever ever plan on the introductory campaign lasting. Don't fudge a single roll and they're likely to all be dead by fourth level - this is good. Puts the fear of God in them, but also, allows them to move on, and not be trapped by the choices they've made once they develop a play style. A really good thing to do is have at least one player who knows the game roll up a PC as well - this person is perfect to play the bard, cleric or wizard, although at low levels bard or cleric is probably best, since he can stay in the background buffing, and be a party face when they interact with PCs. That way, you can model good DM-PC interaction instead of just explaining it, which helps make things a lot clearer to players. And for in the name of the Seven Mounting Heavens, don't be a jackoff about "metagaming." My first DM was like that. A player would join our group and have been playing for about two weeks. God forbid, though, that i suggest to her in combat that she remember to use her Power Attack feat against the low AC monster. No, that was metagaming. :rolleyes: Don't be that DM. Remind your players regularly that if they're not sure what they can do in a situation (not what they should do, mind you), that they should pipe up, and if they've taken an active feat or have a class ability and haven't been using it, remember that it's not Player vs. DM and it's okay to remind them.
j_gunder 01-17-06, 02:23 AM	My most recent campaign was run with five PCs, three of which had never played Dnd and two more who hadn't played since 2e. For the vets, I didn't have to explain too much. Most feats are the kinds of things that 2e DMs houseruled. For the new players, however, I did the following: 1. They got to choose their class. I explained the different classes and the level of difficulty in playing each one (fighter-types: easy, spellcasters: hard). 2. I let them assign an elite array based on how they saw their character, then later told them what bonuses they achieved with their stat placement. I also gave them the opportunity after a session or two to change their stat placement if they thought that it would suit their character better. 3. Skills: I assigned a set of basic in-class skills, and let the players change them after a few sessions if I gave them a skill they never used. Once the players understood how skill checks worked (through playing), I let them choose their own skills. 4. Feats: Pretty much the same as skills. I assigned them basic feats, but ones that required some thought: power attack, combat expertise, for instance...and highlighted them on the character sheet. That way they could test the usefulness of feats, compare it to other feats that gave similar abilities, and then choose their own later. I would let them swap out a feat after a game or two if they had one that didn't suit their character. This seemed to work to everyone's liking. The veteran gamers got to customize as much as the wanted, the rookies got to test out several skills and feats while playing to find out what they liked. By level four, I told them that all of their future decisions would be final...which seemed like enough time.