Character Creations- [Archive] - Wizards Community

Character Creations- [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zorminster
03-17-07, 01:17 AM So, i've been reading lots of threads about character creation and the arguments some current methods produce. And then I had an idea- it's not really anything revolutionary I dont suppose, but it seems like it may have potential.
The two standard creation methods are
Rolling (we will take 4d6 drop 1 to be standard here)
Point Buy (we take 26 to be standard for the sake of argument)

But is there a third option? What about a character creation method that combines point buy and rolling? What if you were to use a character creation method that involved having a 'net modifier' and using rolls for the unique variation of rolling?
For example, Say you operate on a +5 net modifier with d6 deviation. The modifier range is -1 to +3(corresponds to 8-16 stats). Stat deviation of d6. So, for example- say I wanted to roll up a sorceror.
Str -1
Dex +0
Con +1
Int +2
Wis +0
Cha +3
Would be the modifier buy (3+2+1-1 = 5 net modifier)
Convert the modifiers to actual values- minimum for the modifer; so:
8,10,12,14,10,16 are the stats.
Then, roll a d6 for each to create a deviation. Say I roll 3, 2, 5, 6, 2, 1. Add onto the stats and you've got
Str 11, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 20, Wis 12, Cha 17

Okay, so that turned out a pretty powerful character in no way comparable to a 26 pt buy or a 4d6 drop one system; but does it have any potential? This isn't something i've thought out in depth but perhaps you guys could tweak it to a workable system? Maybe if tuned well enough it could work as a good compromise for point buy and rolling advocates alike.
Rillek_Denar
03-17-07, 01:34 AM As a DM, I can say that my players would refuse this method for the same reason they refuse to do strait point buy: [whiniest voice ever] "But those aren't my rolls! I wanna roll! I WANNA ROLL!!!!!!!"

As you can see, I have a love/hate relationship with them.
PwnageLlama
03-17-07, 01:59 AM It does not have the benefits of pointbuy, or the benefits of 4d6 drop. I dont think my players would like it.
StoneStokes
03-17-07, 04:24 AM Our group uses a mixed system. All of the players love it except one (but I don't think that one hates it either).

The DM first chooses a Point-Buy limit, say 28 points.
Roll 4d6-drop-one four times and write down those scores.
Add up the Point-Buy costs of these four scores (scores less than 8 are also worth 0 points).
If the total is 28 points or more, then the last two scores are 8; if the total is less than 28 points, buy the last two scores to bring the total as close as possible to 28 without going over. (extra points cannot be spent to boost other scores).
Place the six scores in any order.
kelvinaw273
03-17-07, 04:36 AM I just stick with point buy. It's straightforwards and easier, and you cannot cheat at it.
A_Wizard_for_Breakfast
03-17-07, 10:42 AM For the record, watching the players roll their stats takes care of cheating. Writing said stats down if they don't get the character built right then allows for an audit later on.

And on a side note, who cheats at D&D?
Makuta999
03-17-07, 11:14 AM lol. Point Buy. It's so simplistic, and easy. My players use it to compare the stats they roll. Truely, they are kinda crazy.

As for your method? I can see potential... however... I'd have to say roll 3d4, and take the one in the middle. I.E. if your rolled a 1,2,3, you'd take the 2. And then, perhaps you'd only roll 3 times, to ensure they aren't TOO uber... Still allows for absurdly lucky people (curse them) and also allows for the mediocre.

The net modifier would have to be kinda low... Probably more around 3. So, using my variation, it'd be like this:
STR -1 = 8
DEX 0 = 10
CON +2 = 14
WIS 0 = 10
INT +3 = 16
CHA -2 = 6

Rolled 3d6, took the middle one, and only rolled 3 times:
1,2,3 (go figure) 2
4,3,3 = 3
1,1,3 = 1

Final Application: 3 into Intelligence (18)
2 into Charisma (just so it isn't that bad)
and 1 into Con.
8,10,15,10,19,8
Not bad, not bad...
The method has some hope, but it definitly needs some tweaking.
Zorminster
03-17-07, 11:45 AM yea, I by no means thought it was tuned enough to actually use yet- it was just a passing thought I had and wanted to throw it up to see if you guys thought there might be some merit to it. I do like the thought of not using deviation except for like 3 of the 6 stats.
kelvinaw273
03-17-07, 12:29 PM For the record, watching the players roll their stats takes care of cheating. Writing said stats down if they don't get the character built right then allows for an audit later on.

And on a side note, who cheats at D&D?

You don't read these boards often, do you?

"One of my player's uses roll-and-snatch!"

"I just caught one of my players using weighted dice!"

"Two players just came to my start-of-game session with premade characters, they said they witnessed each other's rolls but both have got awesome stats (two or three 18's apiece, not one score below 15)!"

"I have a player who insists on using uninked dice no-one but he can see clearly ..."

Want me to go on?
xaqariah
03-17-07, 12:55 PM Alrighty, I had an idea that you might take a standard total modifier, (I chose +3) and calculate out the minumum scores (similar to the op) and then add +1d6-1d4 to get the variance (for an average of +1 to each stat)

Here are 12 examples with the exact same starting conditions... take them for what their worth.

Starting Conditions: (let's see if we can make a rogue)
Str +0 (10)
Dex +2 (14)
Con +0 (10)
Int +1 (12)
Wis -1 (8)
Cha +1 (12)

examples 4, 9, 10 and 12 show you what the extremes could look like. The fact that they showed up in only 12 examples might just be enough to toss this idea out, but I thought I would post it, since we were brainstorming through different ideas.

ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new
Str 0 10 3 2 1 Str 11 0
Dex 2 14 1 3 -2 Dex 12 1
Con 0 10 2 3 -1 Con 9 -1
Int 1 12 2 2 0 Int 12 1
Wis -1 8 3 4 -1 Wis 7 -2
Cha 1 12 5 1 4 Cha 16 3

ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new
Str 0 10 4 3 1 Str 11 0
Dex 2 14 2 3 -1 Dex 13 1
Con 0 10 3 1 2 Con 12 1
Int 1 12 5 2 3 Int 15 2
Wis -1 8 1 2 -1 Wis 7 -2
Cha 1 12 5 3 2 Cha 14 2

ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new
Str 0 10 5 2 3 Str 13 1
Dex 2 14 6 1 5 Dex 19 4
Con 0 10 3 2 1 Con 11 0
Int 1 12 1 2 -1 Int 11 0
Wis -1 8 4 4 0 Wis 8 -1
Cha 1 12 2 4 -2 Cha 10 0

ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new
Str 0 10 5 1 4 Str 14 2
Dex 2 14 6 2 4 Dex 18 4
Con 0 10 5 1 4 Con 14 2
Int 1 12 3 3 0 Int 12 1
Wis -1 8 4 3 1 Wis 9 -1
Cha 1 12 5 1 4 Cha 16 3

ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new
Str 0 10 1 2 -1 Str 9 -1
Dex 2 14 6 3 3 Dex 17 3
Con 0 10 4 2 2 Con 12 1
Int 1 12 5 3 2 Int 14 2
Wis -1 8 5 2 3 Wis 11 0
Cha 1 12 4 2 2 Cha 14 2

ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new
Str 0 10 6 4 2 Str 12 1
Dex 2 14 2 1 1 Dex 15 2
Con 0 10 6 4 2 Con 12 1
Int 1 12 4 4 0 Int 12 1
Wis -1 8 6 4 2 Wis 10 0
Cha 1 12 4 3 1 Cha 13 1

ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new
Str 0 10 3 2 1 Str 11 0
Dex 2 14 6 4 2 Dex 16 3
Con 0 10 2 3 -1 Con 9 -1
Int 1 12 5 3 2 Int 14 2
Wis -1 8 5 2 3 Wis 11 0
Cha 1 12 4 3 1 Cha 13 1

ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new
Str 0 10 4 2 2 Str 12 1
Dex 2 14 2 3 -1 Dex 13 1
Con 0 10 1 3 -2 Con 8 -1
Int 1 12 4 3 1 Int 13 1
Wis -1 8 4 2 2 Wis 10 0
Cha 1 12 4 2 2 Cha 14 2

ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new
Str 0 10 5 4 1 Str 11 0
Dex 2 14 2 3 -1 Dex 13 1
Con 0 10 4 4 0 Con 10 0
Int 1 12 1 3 -2 Int 10 0
Wis -1 8 5 3 2 Wis 10 0
Cha 1 12 3 4 -1 Cha 11 0

ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new
Str 0 10 4 3 1 Str 11 0
Dex 2 14 3 4 -1 Dex 13 1
Con 0 10 2 2 0 Con 10 0
Int 1 12 3 4 -1 Int 11 0
Wis -1 8 3 4 -1 Wis 7 -2
Cha 1 12 2 1 1 Cha 13 1

ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new
Str 0 10 6 3 3 Str 13 1
Dex 2 14 3 4 -1 Dex 13 1
Con 0 10 1 1 0 Con 10 0
Int 1 12 3 2 1 Int 13 1
Wis -1 8 6 4 2 Wis 10 0
Cha 1 12 3 1 2 Cha 14 2

ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new
Str 0 10 6 3 3 Str 13 1
Dex 2 14 4 3 1 Dex 15 2
Con 0 10 3 1 2 Con 12 1
Int 1 12 5 1 4 Int 16 3
Wis -1 8 5 2 3 Wis 11 0
Cha 1 12 4 2 2 Cha 14 2

Average = 4.83

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zorminster 03-17-07, 01:17 AM	So, i've been reading lots of threads about character creation and the arguments some current methods produce. And then I had an idea- it's not really anything revolutionary I dont suppose, but it seems like it may have potential. The two standard creation methods are Rolling (we will take 4d6 drop 1 to be standard here) Point Buy (we take 26 to be standard for the sake of argument) But is there a third option? What about a character creation method that combines point buy and rolling? What if you were to use a character creation method that involved having a 'net modifier' and using rolls for the unique variation of rolling? For example, Say you operate on a +5 net modifier with d6 deviation. The modifier range is -1 to +3(corresponds to 8-16 stats). Stat deviation of d6. So, for example- say I wanted to roll up a sorceror. Str -1 Dex +0 Con +1 Int +2 Wis +0 Cha +3 Would be the modifier buy (3+2+1-1 = 5 net modifier) Convert the modifiers to actual values- minimum for the modifer; so: 8,10,12,14,10,16 are the stats. Then, roll a d6 for each to create a deviation. Say I roll 3, 2, 5, 6, 2, 1. Add onto the stats and you've got Str 11, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 20, Wis 12, Cha 17 Okay, so that turned out a pretty powerful character in no way comparable to a 26 pt buy or a 4d6 drop one system; but does it have any potential? This isn't something i've thought out in depth but perhaps you guys could tweak it to a workable system? Maybe if tuned well enough it could work as a good compromise for point buy and rolling advocates alike.
Rillek_Denar 03-17-07, 01:34 AM	As a DM, I can say that my players would refuse this method for the same reason they refuse to do strait point buy: [whiniest voice ever] "But those aren't my rolls! I wanna roll! I WANNA ROLL!!!!!!!" As you can see, I have a love/hate relationship with them.
PwnageLlama 03-17-07, 01:59 AM	It does not have the benefits of pointbuy, or the benefits of 4d6 drop. I dont think my players would like it.
StoneStokes 03-17-07, 04:24 AM	Our group uses a mixed system. All of the players love it except one (but I don't think that one hates it either). The DM first chooses a Point-Buy limit, say 28 points. Roll 4d6-drop-one four times and write down those scores. Add up the Point-Buy costs of these four scores (scores less than 8 are also worth 0 points). If the total is 28 points or more, then the last two scores are 8; if the total is less than 28 points, buy the last two scores to bring the total as close as possible to 28 without going over. (extra points cannot be spent to boost other scores). Place the six scores in any order.
kelvinaw273 03-17-07, 04:36 AM	I just stick with point buy. It's straightforwards and easier, and you cannot cheat at it.
A_Wizard_for_Breakfast 03-17-07, 10:42 AM	For the record, watching the players roll their stats takes care of cheating. Writing said stats down if they don't get the character built right then allows for an audit later on. And on a side note, who cheats at D&D?
Makuta999 03-17-07, 11:14 AM	lol. Point Buy. It's so simplistic, and easy. My players use it to compare the stats they roll. Truely, they are kinda crazy. As for your method? I can see potential... however... I'd have to say roll 3d4, and take the one in the middle. I.E. if your rolled a 1,2,3, you'd take the 2. And then, perhaps you'd only roll 3 times, to ensure they aren't TOO uber... Still allows for absurdly lucky people (curse them) and also allows for the mediocre. The net modifier would have to be kinda low... Probably more around 3. So, using my variation, it'd be like this: STR -1 = 8 DEX 0 = 10 CON +2 = 14 WIS 0 = 10 INT +3 = 16 CHA -2 = 6 Rolled 3d6, took the middle one, and only rolled 3 times: 1,2,3 (go figure) 2 4,3,3 = 3 1,1,3 = 1 Final Application: 3 into Intelligence (18) 2 into Charisma (just so it isn't that bad) and 1 into Con. 8,10,15,10,19,8 Not bad, not bad... The method has some hope, but it definitly needs some tweaking.
Zorminster 03-17-07, 11:45 AM	yea, I by no means thought it was tuned enough to actually use yet- it was just a passing thought I had and wanted to throw it up to see if you guys thought there might be some merit to it. I do like the thought of not using deviation except for like 3 of the 6 stats.
kelvinaw273 03-17-07, 12:29 PM	For the record, watching the players roll their stats takes care of cheating. Writing said stats down if they don't get the character built right then allows for an audit later on. And on a side note, who cheats at D&D? You don't read these boards often, do you? "One of my player's uses roll-and-snatch!" "I just caught one of my players using weighted dice!" "Two players just came to my start-of-game session with premade characters, they said they witnessed each other's rolls but both have got awesome stats (two or three 18's apiece, not one score below 15)!" "I have a player who insists on using uninked dice no-one but he can see clearly ..." Want me to go on?
xaqariah 03-17-07, 12:55 PM	Alrighty, I had an idea that you might take a standard total modifier, (I chose +3) and calculate out the minumum scores (similar to the op) and then add +1d6-1d4 to get the variance (for an average of +1 to each stat) Here are 12 examples with the exact same starting conditions... take them for what their worth. Starting Conditions: (let's see if we can make a rogue) Str +0 (10) Dex +2 (14) Con +0 (10) Int +1 (12) Wis -1 (8) Cha +1 (12) examples 4, 9, 10 and 12 show you what the extremes could look like. The fact that they showed up in only 12 examples might just be enough to toss this idea out, but I thought I would post it, since we were brainstorming through different ideas. ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new Str 0 10 3 2 1 Str 11 0 Dex 2 14 1 3 -2 Dex 12 1 Con 0 10 2 3 -1 Con 9 -1 Int 1 12 2 2 0 Int 12 1 Wis -1 8 3 4 -1 Wis 7 -2 Cha 1 12 5 1 4 Cha 16 3 ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new Str 0 10 4 3 1 Str 11 0 Dex 2 14 2 3 -1 Dex 13 1 Con 0 10 3 1 2 Con 12 1 Int 1 12 5 2 3 Int 15 2 Wis -1 8 1 2 -1 Wis 7 -2 Cha 1 12 5 3 2 Cha 14 2 ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new Str 0 10 5 2 3 Str 13 1 Dex 2 14 6 1 5 Dex 19 4 Con 0 10 3 2 1 Con 11 0 Int 1 12 1 2 -1 Int 11 0 Wis -1 8 4 4 0 Wis 8 -1 Cha 1 12 2 4 -2 Cha 10 0 ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new Str 0 10 5 1 4 Str 14 2 Dex 2 14 6 2 4 Dex 18 4 Con 0 10 5 1 4 Con 14 2 Int 1 12 3 3 0 Int 12 1 Wis -1 8 4 3 1 Wis 9 -1 Cha 1 12 5 1 4 Cha 16 3 ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new Str 0 10 1 2 -1 Str 9 -1 Dex 2 14 6 3 3 Dex 17 3 Con 0 10 4 2 2 Con 12 1 Int 1 12 5 3 2 Int 14 2 Wis -1 8 5 2 3 Wis 11 0 Cha 1 12 4 2 2 Cha 14 2 ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new Str 0 10 6 4 2 Str 12 1 Dex 2 14 2 1 1 Dex 15 2 Con 0 10 6 4 2 Con 12 1 Int 1 12 4 4 0 Int 12 1 Wis -1 8 6 4 2 Wis 10 0 Cha 1 12 4 3 1 Cha 13 1 ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new Str 0 10 3 2 1 Str 11 0 Dex 2 14 6 4 2 Dex 16 3 Con 0 10 2 3 -1 Con 9 -1 Int 1 12 5 3 2 Int 14 2 Wis -1 8 5 2 3 Wis 11 0 Cha 1 12 4 3 1 Cha 13 1 ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new Str 0 10 4 2 2 Str 12 1 Dex 2 14 2 3 -1 Dex 13 1 Con 0 10 1 3 -2 Con 8 -1 Int 1 12 4 3 1 Int 13 1 Wis -1 8 4 2 2 Wis 10 0 Cha 1 12 4 2 2 Cha 14 2 ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new Str 0 10 5 4 1 Str 11 0 Dex 2 14 2 3 -1 Dex 13 1 Con 0 10 4 4 0 Con 10 0 Int 1 12 1 3 -2 Int 10 0 Wis -1 8 5 3 2 Wis 10 0 Cha 1 12 3 4 -1 Cha 11 0 ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new Str 0 10 4 3 1 Str 11 0 Dex 2 14 3 4 -1 Dex 13 1 Con 0 10 2 2 0 Con 10 0 Int 1 12 3 4 -1 Int 11 0 Wis -1 8 3 4 -1 Wis 7 -2 Cha 1 12 2 1 1 Cha 13 1 ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new Str 0 10 6 3 3 Str 13 1 Dex 2 14 3 4 -1 Dex 13 1 Con 0 10 1 1 0 Con 10 0 Int 1 12 3 2 1 Int 13 1 Wis -1 8 6 4 2 Wis 10 0 Cha 1 12 3 1 2 Cha 14 2 ability initial calc +d6 -d4 change ability new new Str 0 10 6 3 3 Str 13 1 Dex 2 14 4 3 1 Dex 15 2 Con 0 10 3 1 2 Con 12 1 Int 1 12 5 1 4 Int 16 3 Wis -1 8 5 2 3 Wis 11 0 Cha 1 12 4 2 2 Cha 14 2 Average = 4.83