Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gilganarz_the_reporter 12-31-04, 01:30 AM	In my current Eberron campaign, I have a player who seems to change characters all the time. He finds new rules and then just tells me his characters changed. What's more is that they are always distant, often evil and seem to have no real motivation for traveling with the party. Despite the fact that it's Eberron, he's played TWO dragons so far (using rules from a dragon mag). Currently he's playing a warforged charger war hulk. This one we actually like because it fills in a group niche (the only other fighter type is the swasbuckler, who is more of a finesse fighter), isn't evil or distant and he's stuck with it for three sessions. Recently he confided to me that he wants to play and ILLITHID once we reach epic (because he wants to be able to use epic spells) despite the fact that there are two mages in the party already. I haven't told the other players yet, since they are really sick of his changing habits. Should I put my foot down and say no more changes? If so, how should I go about doing it?
Bringslite 12-31-04, 01:34 AM	You are the DM. If it bothers you then stomp on it. When others Dm you follow thier rules, right? When you DM you make the rules.
Aeromus 12-31-04, 01:35 AM	Where do you people come from? I'm serious.. "How do I handle cheating, problem player, die stealer, char changer" You do it like this. "Hi, I'm the DM.... NO...." -- waaah but I want, I'll quit, let me, you can't tell me... -- "Sorry guys games cancelled XXXXXX Player is being a tard, when he's ready to play as EVERYONE else without being a dip stick, I'll DM again. Until then he/she's in charge...later."
rizzard 12-31-04, 01:42 AM	You are the DM of course you should put your foot down . it's not just your obligation to keep that player happy but everyone else as well . and you know his non commtery is bugging them. also it is your duty as a dm in a campaign to set up a continuous world where things are as they were when you ended the last session. privatley confront this player and tell him to take the time between games to figure out a pc he wants or that he should stick with the one he has cause you won't let him switch anymore. tell him this aint a video game where you can just punch in a code and get what you want it's different you play with others and that group effort is what is fun not how uber your pc is. nip it in the bud before he spoils the group experience . if he is bummed point him toward Prc's that he might enjoy if he shapes his pc towards them, you can do it. example illithid in any class could become a great Master of the unseeen hand(complete warrior) good luck :confused:
MoogleEmpMog 12-31-04, 03:13 AM	I've actually run campaigns where one or more PCs were intentionally structured as 'guest stars' - their players liked to create characters and backgrounds more than they liked to develop existing PCs, so I let them bring in temporary characters who changed every few sessions. One session, a player might play the local noble who hired the PCs; when that adventure concluded, he would next play some other ally, perhaps a crusty old adventurer who was the last living man to know the location of a buried treasure (this was in Spelljammer). Of course, not every temporary PC was always friendly to the party... The catch, of course, was that the temp PCs had to make sense as part of the party. An elf claiming to be a rogue and a pirate was welcome, though he turned out to actually be a bounty hunter after the PCs on behalf of the elven authorities. A mind flayer actually might have been welcome in Spelljammer. A neogi, demon or otherwise obviously untrustworthy character? Definitely not. A dragon, if disguised, might make more sense in Eberron than in most campaigns. A warforged charger war hulk obviously does. A mind flayer does not. Since the player is willing to fill you in on his character concepts beforehand, you might want to try working something like this out with him. I think it would work almost as well in Eberron as it did in Spelljammer; both have that "See interesting places, meet interesting beings, and kill them." vibe. ;)
Kalanth 12-31-04, 03:30 AM	Where do you people come from? I'm serious.. "How do I handle cheating, problem player, die stealer, char changer" You do it like this. "Hi, I'm the DM.... NO...." -- waaah but I want, I'll quit, let me, you can't tell me... -- "Sorry guys games cancelled XXXXXX Player is being a tard, when he's ready to play as EVERYONE else without being a dip stick, I'll DM again. Until then he/she's in charge...later." You realize, even though this may not be the most cooth and polite way to have made his point, Aeromus made the point perfectly. There should never be any question about how to handle this situation, just tell him that he can't do it. And with other things (like the two dragons he has played) he absolutley must go to you and ask your permission first.
penchant 12-31-04, 04:35 AM	When in doubt, say no. He has no business introducing rules and classes into your game anyway. If he complains, say those three magic words: Core Rules ONLY! Then maybe come to a compromise that you like.
Stuntman 12-31-04, 12:16 PM	I do not allow drastic changes to characters. However, if a player wants to make some small changes to his character because these changes make more sense and fit his character better, then I allow it. For example, if a player plays his character in such a way that a particlar feat in a new book fits his character well and he has another feat that he really never used much, I would allow the character to swap the feats. I would never allow a character to make a drastic change like changing his race from dwarf to elf. Going from elf to half-elf may be allowed depending on the situation. Changing from a dragon to an illithid makes no sense to me. The way you described this player, it seems like he plays the best level 1-5 character then from level 6-10 plays another that is best at those levels, etc. It's like playing a fighter from level 1-4 and then changing to wizard at level 5 because the wizard now has fireball. It seems like he is not playing an Illithid now because his War Forged is better at the current level than the Illithid, but at epic levels the Illithid has cool stuff that he wants then. This is not fair to the other wizards in the party because they have to work through the low levels when other classes rule in order to get the better abilities later.
MoogleEmpMog 12-31-04, 12:38 PM	I can't vouch for his warforged charger, but the dragons and the ilithid would clearly be suboptimal for their levels. If this player IS trying to get the best class/race for each level, he's failing miserably. :D
evilgenius 12-31-04, 02:29 PM	I've actually run campaigns where one or more PCs were intentionally structured as 'guest stars' - their players liked to create characters and backgrounds more than they liked to develop existing PCs, so I let them bring in temporary characters who changed every few sessions. That's an excellent idea - I don't play often, but this would fit me to a "T" when I do. L8er evilgenius
LukiLoki 12-31-04, 02:50 PM	There's just so much that's wrong with this type of player and his sense of entitlement. You're the DM, which means you are running the WHOLE WORLD. It's not a power trip issue, or even a rules issue. It's an issue of internal consistency and your sense of what fits. Wishy-washiness and wanting to change all the time aside, you need to let the player know, now, that he can't just pop into reality in your world wearing a new "skin", like it's a video game. Make your players come up with backstories, reasons for being who they are beyond "well, like, y'know, I wanted the fat AC bonuses...". Accept only concepts that make sense in the context of your world. You don't even have to justify such decisions in terms of game mechanics at all. Remember, it may be Keith's baby (Eberron), but once you sit down behind that screen, YOU are responsible for bringing the world to life. Don't let players turn it into a freak-show.
wildduck 01-01-05, 01:33 AM	If a character dies, what level do you let him come back at? Groups average? 1 below group average? Make the penalty for "changing" a character more severe. Make him 2 or 3 levels below the average. He can catch up, but it will take a while. Personally I don't let characters change. You can have a new character if you old one dies or retires for some very good reason in game. If a player simply feels like his character is not fun anymore, I will work with him to make it better, but you can't go changing characters wily nily. That is my stance. Upon thinking about it a little more, maybe he just wants to try out all the goodies he can. There is nothing really wrong with this per se, I mean, who didn't see the war-forged and say being a war-forged artificer would be just broken? But the problem is how it affects your game, if he changes characters like the average gamer changes underwear (you know, about once a week :)), then it is going to be very difficult to have continuity in your game. However, if you basically set up a game where there is some mercenary band, or some other group of LOTS of yet undefined characters, and each "mission" particular mercs (the PCs) will be chosen, and then let everyone make up new characters whenever they want, It would make some sense. If you ever played final fantasy tactics, you basically had a pool of a ton of characters and you could take out the ones you wanted to level them up, but you had to choose who to take. This might work, but everyone else would have to agree to have a game like this (and it would have to work for you as well). Hope that helps some wildduck
Chosen of the Dark Sun 01-01-05, 01:55 AM	I had this problem once, and when our 10 person D&D group split into two smaller groups, and the other group fell apart, we didn't invite the two people who did this into ours. This was because as much as anyone tried, both people refused to be consistant and just played what they though was cool at the time. If he wants to change so much, introduce him to "Mr. Blinky". Now, Mr. Blinky is my baby, and I've been saving him up for a while to use against my PCs. Imagine a kobold. But not just any kobold. A kobold which constantly mutters to himself in a mixture of dwarven and elven, bathes only on the harvest moon, eats smoked wood, and is generally insane. Now, this is a kobold transmuter 15, with his favorite spell being used very often. This spell happens to have the effect of turning anyone it hits into a "random" form, though it is almost a small furry animal with a taste for human blood. So he pops up randomly and turns PCs into blood-thirsty chipmunks. Do this if he changes again.
Kalanth 01-01-05, 02:04 AM	If he wants to change so much, introduce him to "Mr. Blinky". Now, Mr. Blinky is my baby, and I've been saving him up for a while to use against my PCs. Imagine a kobold. But not just any kobold. A kobold which constantly mutters to himself in a mixture of dwarven and elven, bathes only on the harvest moon, eats smoked wood, and is generally insane. Now, this is a kobold transmuter 15, with his favorite spell being used very often. This spell happens to have the effect of turning anyone it hits into a "random" form, though it is almost a small furry animal with a taste for human blood. So he pops up randomly and turns PCs into blood-thirsty chipmunks. Do this if he changes again. Mr. Binky reminds me of what I use when my players get out of line. They come across an immortal deer with a holy avenger stuck in its horns.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 01-01-05, 03:13 PM	By the way, Mr. Blinky's favorite saying is "All your bases are belong to us." :D