Character Perks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Character Perks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Eerongal
11-09-07, 10:32 AM Ok, a little backstory here, Me and my gaming group are going to be doing a high-powered evil campaign fairly soon. This if mostly at the request of the players, as we usually do low to mid level good campaigns (i.e. characters are usually fighting for the greater good of the world, etc.) And i wanted to make this campaign a bit special, so I'm trying to come up with high-powered character perks for each character. There are 5 characters in all, and the problem i'm having is balancing the ideas of the perks. Not against enemies, i can always challenge them with their battles, but against each other. i don't want one character to be too powerful over the others. Here's the ideas for perks i've been kicking around:

Divine rank 0
Major + intermediate bloodline for free
5 free LA of templates
major artifact

Like i said, i want a different perk for each character, because i want them to feel that their character is unique in every way, but i'm having a heck of a time balancing this idea. Any help/thoughts/comments would be great.

Thanks in advance!
Altaine
11-09-07, 12:25 PM The problem with handing players things for free is that they can get complaciant and abusive with freebies, and it becomes hard to draw the line and say no to them.

We did an epic level moster campain earlier this year, and the way I balanced it was to make all charecters have an ECL of 25. If you're confused by ECL and monsters and level adjustments (like I was when I started planning this campaign) there is a great section in the DMG about it. The heading actually says something to the effect of "Monters as charecters". Now if not everyone is going to be a monster that's fine as well as they're Lv Adj is +0, but if you're playing an evil campign i'm sure you're going to have at least one (probably a vampire) on your hands.

The equipment could be done a number of ways. I told them to each take a minor, medium and major magic item from the DMG. Once I got my hands on the Magic Item Compendium I realized that I could have given them a level of magic items and let them pick accordingly (the MIC has a great way of giving items a level and it makes it very nicley balanced).

Handing your players MAJOR artifacts could pose pontentially damning for your campaign as they may allow your players to thwart some of your threats easier than you may want. As always though DM discresion is the key to balance. Good luck with your campaign!
knightwriter
11-09-07, 12:55 PM I would be very careful in handing out major artifacts. I tried this once and it ended up ruining the game.
Eerongal
11-09-07, 02:07 PM yeah, like i said, i'm just trying to come up with ideas for powerful characters perks, but I don't want them to overshadow one another.

Sometimes (not all the time) my players like to powergame. I'm pretty sure that's going to happen in this campaign, so i'm more than expectant of that.

Of the ideas i had, i'm very uncertain about an artifact (FYI, it would be an artifact of my choosing, not the players), and the 5 LA of templates. The templates seem like they would be a heavy impact at first, but slow down too much to keep up with some of the other perks. The artifact is, well, an artifact.

I'm actually fairly comfortable with divine ranks 0 as a perk, as it confers some nice bonuses and gets better as you get stronger, but isnt a huge boost to power now or later as opposed to some of the others. Plus, i know the player would love it if only to say he's a demi-god.

The bloodlines idea i fear may be too weak compared to the others.
Altaine
11-09-07, 04:19 PM Again I strongly suggest staying away from the artifacts as most of them are uber powerful. Handing out a major magic item can have the same impact to the players but less of an impact on your game.

The templates are a great idea if you don't hold your players to +5. Let them pick their templates and dock their starting level accordingly so that thier ECL as a charecter all is even with the rest of the party. I did this in my epic monster campaign and it worked out great. Every player had thier own strengths but no one overshadowed anyone.
Eerongal
11-09-07, 04:35 PM Again I strongly suggest staying away from the artifacts as most of them are uber powerful. Handing out a major magic item can have the same impact to the players but less of an impact on your game.

The templates are a great idea if you don't hold your players to +5. Let them pick their templates and dock their starting level accordingly so that thier ECL as a charecter all is even with the rest of the party. I did this in my epic monster campaign and it worked out great. Every player had thier own strengths but no one overshadowed anyone.

I'm sorry, maybe i'm not making myself clear on what I'm stating. I'm intending to give all of my players a perk that they normally can't have, as a special bonus to their character, and their character only. I know how templates and LA work normally, and When i say 5 LA of templates, i mean that the character can combine and take templates up to a total of 5 LA at no level reduction as their perk. Any templates beyond this apply LA normally.

And I'm trying to balance out an individual perk for each player, not the same one for everyone. For example from above, one player would get divine rank 0, one person with 5 free templates, one person with a major and a minor bloodline without having to take bloodline levels, and one person who gets an artifact.

Now my problem comes in with balancing the perks to one another so that everyone gets something unique, but one is not more powerful than the other. As I said before, I'm not worried about challenging players from a DM perspective, that I can do just fine. What I am worried about is one player feeling cheated over the other because his perk is so much weaker than someone elses.
Voran
11-11-07, 02:59 AM Man, I'd pick the 0 divine rank, thats a load of resistances and such across the board.
Kitep
11-11-07, 09:59 PM Divine rank 0
Major + intermediate bloodline for free
5 free LA of templates
major artifact

I'd say show this list to your players, and explain this is the power level of the perk you're thinking of. Then let them come up with their own perks, either from this list or one thought up uniquely by them. Hopefully, they'll think of one that fits nicely with their character concept. Of course, you have the right of refusal, and can tell them to make the perk stronger or weaker.

BTW, just how high a level are you thinking when you say "high-level"? And what level is the "mid-level" they are used to playing?

Good luck! Sounds like fun.
Eerongal
11-11-07, 11:12 PM BTW, just how high a level are you thinking when you say "high-level"? And what level is the "mid-level" they are used to playing?

Mid level is usually (what i consider, anyways) from about 5th -12th level or so. This campaign, however, is going to be in epic levels. (20+ of course)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eerongal 11-09-07, 10:32 AM	Ok, a little backstory here, Me and my gaming group are going to be doing a high-powered evil campaign fairly soon. This if mostly at the request of the players, as we usually do low to mid level good campaigns (i.e. characters are usually fighting for the greater good of the world, etc.) And i wanted to make this campaign a bit special, so I'm trying to come up with high-powered character perks for each character. There are 5 characters in all, and the problem i'm having is balancing the ideas of the perks. Not against enemies, i can always challenge them with their battles, but against each other. i don't want one character to be too powerful over the others. Here's the ideas for perks i've been kicking around: Divine rank 0 Major + intermediate bloodline for free 5 free LA of templates major artifact Like i said, i want a different perk for each character, because i want them to feel that their character is unique in every way, but i'm having a heck of a time balancing this idea. Any help/thoughts/comments would be great. Thanks in advance!
Altaine 11-09-07, 12:25 PM	The problem with handing players things for free is that they can get complaciant and abusive with freebies, and it becomes hard to draw the line and say no to them. We did an epic level moster campain earlier this year, and the way I balanced it was to make all charecters have an ECL of 25. If you're confused by ECL and monsters and level adjustments (like I was when I started planning this campaign) there is a great section in the DMG about it. The heading actually says something to the effect of "Monters as charecters". Now if not everyone is going to be a monster that's fine as well as they're Lv Adj is +0, but if you're playing an evil campign i'm sure you're going to have at least one (probably a vampire) on your hands. The equipment could be done a number of ways. I told them to each take a minor, medium and major magic item from the DMG. Once I got my hands on the Magic Item Compendium I realized that I could have given them a level of magic items and let them pick accordingly (the MIC has a great way of giving items a level and it makes it very nicley balanced). Handing your players MAJOR artifacts could pose pontentially damning for your campaign as they may allow your players to thwart some of your threats easier than you may want. As always though DM discresion is the key to balance. Good luck with your campaign!
knightwriter 11-09-07, 12:55 PM	I would be very careful in handing out major artifacts. I tried this once and it ended up ruining the game.
Eerongal 11-09-07, 02:07 PM	yeah, like i said, i'm just trying to come up with ideas for powerful characters perks, but I don't want them to overshadow one another. Sometimes (not all the time) my players like to powergame. I'm pretty sure that's going to happen in this campaign, so i'm more than expectant of that. Of the ideas i had, i'm very uncertain about an artifact (FYI, it would be an artifact of my choosing, not the players), and the 5 LA of templates. The templates seem like they would be a heavy impact at first, but slow down too much to keep up with some of the other perks. The artifact is, well, an artifact. I'm actually fairly comfortable with divine ranks 0 as a perk, as it confers some nice bonuses and gets better as you get stronger, but isnt a huge boost to power now or later as opposed to some of the others. Plus, i know the player would love it if only to say he's a demi-god. The bloodlines idea i fear may be too weak compared to the others.
Altaine 11-09-07, 04:19 PM	Again I strongly suggest staying away from the artifacts as most of them are uber powerful. Handing out a major magic item can have the same impact to the players but less of an impact on your game. The templates are a great idea if you don't hold your players to +5. Let them pick their templates and dock their starting level accordingly so that thier ECL as a charecter all is even with the rest of the party. I did this in my epic monster campaign and it worked out great. Every player had thier own strengths but no one overshadowed anyone.
Eerongal 11-09-07, 04:35 PM	Again I strongly suggest staying away from the artifacts as most of them are uber powerful. Handing out a major magic item can have the same impact to the players but less of an impact on your game. The templates are a great idea if you don't hold your players to +5. Let them pick their templates and dock their starting level accordingly so that thier ECL as a charecter all is even with the rest of the party. I did this in my epic monster campaign and it worked out great. Every player had thier own strengths but no one overshadowed anyone. I'm sorry, maybe i'm not making myself clear on what I'm stating. I'm intending to give all of my players a perk that they normally can't have, as a special bonus to their character, and their character only. I know how templates and LA work normally, and When i say 5 LA of templates, i mean that the character can combine and take templates up to a total of 5 LA at no level reduction as their perk. Any templates beyond this apply LA normally. And I'm trying to balance out an individual perk for each player, not the same one for everyone. For example from above, one player would get divine rank 0, one person with 5 free templates, one person with a major and a minor bloodline without having to take bloodline levels, and one person who gets an artifact. Now my problem comes in with balancing the perks to one another so that everyone gets something unique, but one is not more powerful than the other. As I said before, I'm not worried about challenging players from a DM perspective, that I can do just fine. What I am worried about is one player feeling cheated over the other because his perk is so much weaker than someone elses.
Voran 11-11-07, 02:59 AM	Man, I'd pick the 0 divine rank, thats a load of resistances and such across the board.
Kitep 11-11-07, 09:59 PM	Divine rank 0 Major + intermediate bloodline for free 5 free LA of templates major artifact I'd say show this list to your players, and explain this is the power level of the perk you're thinking of. Then let them come up with their own perks, either from this list or one thought up uniquely by them. Hopefully, they'll think of one that fits nicely with their character concept. Of course, you have the right of refusal, and can tell them to make the perk stronger or weaker. BTW, just how high a level are you thinking when you say "high-level"? And what level is the "mid-level" they are used to playing? Good luck! Sounds like fun.
Eerongal 11-11-07, 11:12 PM	BTW, just how high a level are you thinking when you say "high-level"? And what level is the "mid-level" they are used to playing? Mid level is usually (what i consider, anyways) from about 5th -12th level or so. This campaign, however, is going to be in epic levels. (20+ of course)