Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fend575 03-01-08, 12:40 AM	Im about to wrap up my campaign arch, and one of my players has aproached me with the request to play a Hound archon. I could have shot it down, but i thought it was a cool idea the way he described it. After throwing around Paladin and Samurai for a while he settled on Sword of Righteousness in Exhaulted deeds for abit. But then he realised that the Stalker of Kharash Seemed to favor his character more (having maxed out ranks in his Racial skills including spot, listen and survival). The only problem is, Stalker of Kharash is "Neutral good" only. Hound archons can only be Lawful Good. And if compareing Archons to Devils were a possibility, id say Youd be hard pressed to find a Neutral evil or Chaotic Evil devil out there in the cosmos. Thus, would it be rational to think the same could be applyed to Hound Archons? Anyway, The party will be CR 12. And his Total EL is 11 so he will have 1 level in the class he goes. But my Dilema is alowing him to take the class modified for Lawful good - Or - telling him he cannot because he doesnt meet the class prerequisits. "–– RACE ABILITIES –– • +4 Strength, +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma • Base land speed of 40 feet. • +9 Natural Armor bonus. • Natural Weapons: Bite(1d8+6), Slam(1d4+3) • Darkvision 60 feet. • Low-Light Vision • Immunity to electricity and petrification • Damage Reduction 10/evil • Spell-like abilities: At will - aid, continual flame, detect evil, message. • Spell Resistance 16 • Aura of Menace(Su): Any hostile creature within a 20-foot radius of an you must succeed on a Will save(DC 19) to resist its effects. Those who fail take a -2 penalty on attacks, AC, and saves for 24 hours or until they successfully hit you. • Change Shape(Su): You can assume any canine form of Small to Large size. You gain the bite attack of the form you choose, but lose your normal attacks. • +4 racial bonus on Fortitude saves against poison. • Magic Circle against Evil(Su): A magic circle against evil effect always surrounds you. • Teleport(Su): You can use greater teleport at will, as the spell except that you can transport only yourself and up to 50 pounds of objects. • Tongues(Su): You can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell. This ability is always active. • Scent • Favored Class: Ranger –– CLASS ABILITIES –– • Proficient with all simple and martial weapons. –– FEATS –– This is what he gets as a hound archon. Stalker of Kharash is on Page 75 of Exhaulted deeds. What should i do?
I_roll_ones 03-01-08, 12:52 AM	Say that he cannot play a Hound Archon, since they are LG. Then tell him that he can play this NG celestial race with the same stats but are NG. Yugoloths are the NE version of Demons and Devils, right? In theory, there are NG celestials kicking out there, somewhere. If it fits your comoslogy, why work out a NG celestial race? And I am not familiar with the class, why is it LG only? Is it a reason that you think is sensible and works with the world? Have you denied other players classes because of Lawful/Chaotic requirements?
Ecalsneerg 03-01-08, 11:41 AM	I'd say let him. He wants to be a NG hound Archon, not a CE one. The change isn't massive, not disruptive.
LeeAlucard 03-01-08, 12:06 PM	If he's got his heart set on playing a Hound Archon, and is less concerned about the character class, change the character class in such a way that it can be undertaken by a LG character. After all, the DMG has suggestions for creating character classes for a reason. If he's got his heart set on playing a Stalker of Kharash, and is less concerned about his species, change the details in such a way that a hound archon is not required to be LG. After all, the MM has suggestions for creating monsters for a reason. Hope that helped.
highbulp 03-01-08, 12:34 PM	Or you could, you know, just ignore the alignment restrictions. I promise you it won't break the game or anything.
danielinthewolvesden 03-01-08, 01:33 PM	He can either be a renegade Archon or just change the class a bit. I suggest the latter.
Escef 03-01-08, 01:44 PM	If you check the alignment descriptors, even the word "Always" doesn't mean always. There's one in a few thousand or million that isn't what's listed. Usually it's only one alignment step away. Even so, one Wizards webspace is the stats for a Succubus Paladin. An "Aways" Chaotic Evil Outsider who is Lawful Good. And it doesn't break the game.
Moonslayer 03-01-08, 03:56 PM	Let him be NG. It makes him abnormal amongst his kind, which could be the reason he is on his own in the Prime instead of serving some Higher Power.
Fend575 03-02-08, 07:03 AM	good advice all of this =] I went with alowing him to be neutral good and a stalker of Kharash. but i encouraged him to take the character as far away from the monster manual image of hound archons as possible and come up with a unique appearance, style, look and even aproach to things. something he's gone along with great. I have another character request now to deal with however... Im about to commence a somewhat epic heroics campaign set in a frozen northland - where the players will have to stop 2 super villains essentially bringing about the end of the moderns world with 2 completely seperate apocolypse like events happening simultaniously. Even if one is stopped, the other may still happen if not dealt with apropriately. My players dont know this though - and all ive told them is it will be a rather heroicly motivated campaign in which they should have a drive to confront evil, or at the very least, see out an appointed task to completion (aka retriving somthing one of the villains happens to posess - and probably end up getting roped into stopping somthing that will have an obvious and adverse effect upon the character if not stopped) One of them wants to play a foppish CN, good hearted but scatter brained, fiend blooded/sorcerer (heroes of horror) professor with a doctorate in philosophy. all well and good, but she wants to take the Leadership feat and have an "honor student" cleric travel with her. more to the point, another character wishes to model a Samurai who considers her his master. I told them both - A i think the foppish character seems completely out of place in this situation (shes a world of darkness player..) B im not fond of the heal bot honor student and C that storyline for the samurai just doesnt seem correct. his idea of bushido is the person who pays him the most coin is his new master. And if someone pays him "more" coin, she will attempt to bluff or charm him into thinking the other party is lieing or bluffing to keep him in line with her. I dont like this arangment because i think it craps all over what samurais are all about and dilutes his cool - and at the same time glorifys the comedic fop that seems utterly out of place in the ice age environment stopping 2 super villains at once.. to complicate things even more, they are girlfreind and boyfreind in real life - so when i dig into one player about theyre character choice, the other sticks up for them. and when i dig into the girl about hers, the guy gets abit hostile towards me. I dunno. should i lighten up? or do i have a reason to be concerned right now? If i had my way, theyed play things that fit better with the setting rather than ludicrously out of place concepts. is this wrong of me to do?
Ecalsneerg 03-02-08, 07:07 AM	Well, do your players want this dark, grim apocalyptic setting? hard to judge whethe they're awae of the tone in any details, from what you've posted you haven't said much to them about your wishes. Oh, and the samurai? He's a mercenary, not a samurai. (and we'll just not get on to the samurai class. Sheesh :P )
Fend575 03-02-08, 07:22 AM	mm thats what i keep telling him. We tweaked the samurai class around abit he wants to go samurai/kensai which i think is cool - if only he wasnt modeled around the girls character as an impromptu copout bodygaurd. We replaced 2 weapon fighting with our own feat called "Diasho focus" basically weapon focus for both katana and wakizashi. Then Diasho specilaisation, Greater Diasho specialisation.. and so forth. Its just replacing the 2 weapon fighting feat tree with weapon focus feat tree. I told him today, id be happier if i brought in some kind of NPC Master for him to serve who had a vested interest in the north lands. and had sent his servant to investigate - rather than link him to the other character. As for the others they are looking forward to the upcoming campaign arch, and have voiced theyre excitement. The barbarian in particular is because it is his homeland and he gets to ride a wooly mammoth! The player who wants to play the fiendblooded fop is just very cheeky. like today, she was threatening to cast spark of life on a vampire villain theyre about to verse in my existing campaign - And then charm person. When its supposed to be a dramatic title fight. This made me rather depressed because it would ruin things, so i said "the vampire will more than likely just pass its will save", her Bf peaked up and said "Then i want you to roll its saves in the open then" - Which - Is an inapropriate thing to ask a dm. I feel asif as a couple they walk on me, and if i put up to much resistance they will hate me for it. :(
Ecalsneerg 03-02-08, 07:55 AM	Firstly you shouldn't care who's with who in your gaming goup. Tell them that you expect them to accept your ulings, luvvy-duvvy or not. seriously, I know you don't want to alienate people, but they will continue to walk all over you. This made me rather depressed because it would ruin things, so i said "the vampire will more than likely just pass its will save", her Bf peaked up and said "Then i want you to roll its saves in the open then" - Which - Is an inapropriate thing to ask a dm. I feel asif as a couple they walk on me, and if i put up to much resistance they will hate me for it. This is simple. Don't give hints like that, roll in secret like you usually do. It is deceptive and I wouldn't often do it, but my group wouldn't do this sort of thing. (Believe me, this isn't a slight on your players but more a 'WTF?' towards mine :) They're plain odd.) Right, this next idea will really hack off the boyfriend. You will either have to do the NPC idea, simply because he's using it as an excuse to be overprotective ingame. It just seems disruptive. I'm not going to say disallow the 'fop', but if the setting is dark she will inevitably hit snags. downside of this being the boyfiend of dooooooooom will get hacked off at his darling ever having to struggle in your game.
Fend575 03-02-08, 05:05 PM	wow Ecalsneerg =] you have great wisdom you cut right to the heart of the issue there, he would get hacked off rather thoroughly if somthing were to happen to her or if she struggled. And worse, If she were to become tired with my campaign setting because her character didnt fit and such - he may get dragged down with her... somthing i secretly fear. I will tell him today when he wakes up (we're house mates) id prefer that he go with the lord and "then" develope a relationship with her character in game, rather than being bound to her from the get go or lorded to her because i think that compareing bushido to mercinary work is rubbish. Thanks for your help - youve given some 3rd person insight. Youve earned this :cookie:
I_roll_ones 03-02-08, 05:44 PM	I think you are fair with the CN sorcerer, through I wouldn't toss out the honor student. The tone will not mesh well and she may not end up enjoying the character. Give her fair warning. She could easily be a CN, humorful fiendish blood with a dark side. Maybe she is full of herself, and prone to VERY selfish acts, thanks to her blood. No one likes to heal, so if she's trying to heal without not enjoying the game, let her. say that if she doesn't RP the student, you will, and she must treat him/her fairly. Or...Give them healing items, such as wands of vigor, so no one has to do it.
Ecalsneerg 03-03-08, 01:29 PM	wow Ecalsneerg =] you have great wisdom Thanks for your help - youve given some 3rd person insight. Youve earned this :cookie: Thanks fo the cookie. Now I feel all warm and glowy inside.