Character Throwing his Own Party [Archive] - Wizards Community

Character Throwing his Own Party [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WhiteRaven810
07-23-07, 12:19 AM Chalk this up as a classic case of the player being smarter then the DM, but I have an asshat player who refuses to join the party.

The party consists of a Human Sorcerer, a wyrmling Gold Dragon, Elf Ranger, (and my trouble maker) a Human Swashbuckler.

So after the inital scuffle with the three Last Laugh thugs in the alley, the Swashbuckler simply turned tail and went off to do her own thing while the rest of the party moved on.

That was our first session. Four sessions later the party is half way through the first chapter, while the thorn-in-my-side is traversing the streets of Cauldron trying to attract the attention of the Last Laugh and Alley Basher's. I believe his goal is to either join one faction or to make the two compete against one another until both are destroyed.

Oye.

I cannot tell him that I can't let him get involved with either organization because of what happens later in the game.

Twice now I've used a company of Skulk's to attempt a kidnapping, drag her body down into Jzadirune (where they'd be intercepted by the party). But he's a smart cookie and play's his character awful Intelligent (she has an 18 Intelligence, so it's cool).

Where we left off, he was just escaping from a Skulk ambush with a city guardsman who was helping the Swashbuckler limp off to the temple of Cuthbert for healing. This is an easy tie in for combining the party. If he doesn't bite, I believe I'm going to simply cut off any encounter's. No experience points, no treasure.

So I guess I'm typing up this ancedote partly to vent off my own fustration, and to ask for advice on what else I could pull to unify my table as a single party.

"Talk to him about it" is a common (and usually excellent) answer given on these boards. But it has no place here. He knows what both my Skulk attacks were, and he knows that having my table split is causing me some grief (espically last session when a portion of the party was kidnapped and dragged down into the prison's of Malachite, oye that was a long night). And if he doesn't opt to bite my hook, I cannot railroad any character into compliance.

Thank you.
Kaligrad
07-23-07, 12:30 AM Tell him that his character is not a PC. He's not part of the party, so there's no reason for someone to roleplay his actions. Tell him that either his character has to find a reason to join with the party or else roll up a new character who will. No player should be able to demand so much exclusive time from the DM.
dknight100
07-23-07, 12:51 AM Yea - just stop devoting time to their character. Tell him that as the DM, your campaign is with the party. If he goes off on his own, and ignores that you want him back with the party, then he's just not playing in your campaign. He can be in the campaign when he's back with the party.
WhiteRaven810
07-23-07, 01:05 AM I should also mention that his guy is co-owner of my FLGS where my party plays every other saturday. So I'ma not going to **** him off. Not that I'm going to tip toe around his character though either.

So this has to be handled with finess and care.
Kaligrad
07-23-07, 01:36 AM Then explain it to him carefully. It sounds like the campaign has just started, so he can't have gotten too attached to his character. Perhaps he actually has his own ideas on why his character is remaining aloof; ask him about it. If he is adamant about staying apart, explain the difficulties of running two campaigns simultaniously, and how unfair it is to the other players. We often do things out of ignorance that we wouldn't if it were just explained to us properly.
jagraham
07-23-07, 12:02 PM That is an annoying situation which has happened to me before. It is usually solved by letting the player wait a few hours, while the party does interesting things and fights some combats.

You can say "Nothing of interest happens" to the wandering player as he cools his heels. Bending over backwards to make it work out is definitely a waste of your time as DM.

The two organizations will probably be hard to set against each other, since they would not be around too long if they fell for that trick. He may be able to join one group and get a really mundane and time consuming assignments while they figure out if he's for real:

- Guard a box in a room for a month
- Go undercover at a pig farm for a month
- Deliver a sealed package (actually containing a rock) to a distant city.

With one of these completed, maybe he can be trusted with something of small importance to the group. If he doesn't, then he gets killed as an infiltrator.
Forfeit
07-23-07, 12:37 PM Oh boy. It looks like those anoying kids that are owners of the ball and you only allow them to play because no one else has one.
WhiteRaven810
07-23-07, 03:20 PM I'm thinking my course of action is to not allow him any involvement with the Last Laugh or Alley Basher's, pray he doesn't leave the temple of Cuthbert before the party returns with the orphans, and if he does, simply don't throw the Swashbuckler anything to really do until he meets up with the party.
shadzar
07-23-07, 03:30 PM I should also mention that his guy is co-owner of my FLGS where my party plays every other saturday. So I'ma not going to **** him off. Not that I'm going to tip toe around his character though either.

So this has to be handled with finess and care.

seems like similar to my FLGS. but the owners were one DM, another PC. and i quit the game for a while because of similar stupidity on the PC part.

sadly you may want to find another FLGS where you and the other players can go.

if you are the only D&D group there and the store will lose its player-base then maybe this co-owner will learn to behave or lose your business.

i hear some Starbucks actually let people play there. something on their website said something about meetups so many that will help if you need to find another place to play.
Lazigothi
07-23-07, 04:29 PM I don't know why he should get preferential treatment except that it's good policy to be polite to "anyone."

D&D can be played three ways:

1) Solo adventures. If he really wants to ditch the party, perhaps the player wouldn't want to have a character ball-and-chained to any group, then this player is actually going to want to play one of these. Otherwise it wastes the time of everyone while the other waits for the story to get back to them.

2) Group adventures. If you cannot have the potential to create a character that sincerely wants to always adventure together, then this style of gaming is not for you. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. A particular adventure might happen to spotlight one character, but since everyone gets the spotlight and experience, everyone enjoys playing even when the spotlight happens to fall elsewhere. The group has confidence that their DM fairly gives the spotlight equally to everyone.

3) Split-Group adventures: Sometimes circumstances happen that require a member or members to have encounters away from the group, perhaps often. This is not the same as a player who voluntarily, eagerly, and stubbornly tries every trick in the book to ditch the group and summarily abandon the group never to rejoin the party. Perhaps someone has an infrequent secret contact with an insider to get some info, maybe one of the characters has become possessed or charmed, maybe a character astral travels and can't take anyone with them. These are moments where the DM needs to split time between the various party members, but the party members intend on joining back with the group. If time for the group is valuable the DM still has the incentive to rush the solo-ing bit quickly to keep the group united and focused.

If the player does indeed want to play with a group, he needs to re-create a character whose concept would keep the group together.
Gareshra
07-23-07, 04:48 PM I actually envy you. Most of my PC's don't have enough confidence in themselves to be so assertive. Even so, that's taking it too far. Talk to him outside of game is your best bet, since he's obviously resourceful enough to foil your plans for quite some time. Even if he knows he's causing you trouble, just warn him that you're going to have to give him the boot.

If that doesn't work, here's some in game possibilities:
A. Try throwing encounters at him that he would be able to handle were he grouped, but as such, cannot. Things that play to his class weaknesses. If you really want to have some fun, start skewing events such that the players actually become turned AGAINST him, and as a quest they are forced to hunt him down. He seems to enjoy causing chaos, so introduce a PVP element and see how long he holds out. Of course, if he actually chooses to join the players at that point, you'll need some kind of deus ex machina solution to pop out of nowhere and make the players suddenly friendly, and that's kinda iffy.
Noon
07-23-07, 05:51 PM "Woops, sorry, I gave the impression you could go off on your own. My mistake - in this game you have to stay with the party. Going off on your own would be like bringing a rifts character and expecting to play it - that's outside what the game contains. It's D&D and you stick with the party.

Sorry, should have made it clear - I understand if you can't make it next session"

WhiteRaven810: This is where you give one of two traditional responces
"It's not my fault, I shouldn't have to say that"
or
"I don't have enough players to risk that"

Or maybe you break with tradition - lets find out! What do you think?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WhiteRaven810 07-23-07, 12:19 AM	Chalk this up as a classic case of the player being smarter then the DM, but I have an asshat player who refuses to join the party. The party consists of a Human Sorcerer, a wyrmling Gold Dragon, Elf Ranger, (and my trouble maker) a Human Swashbuckler. So after the inital scuffle with the three Last Laugh thugs in the alley, the Swashbuckler simply turned tail and went off to do her own thing while the rest of the party moved on. That was our first session. Four sessions later the party is half way through the first chapter, while the thorn-in-my-side is traversing the streets of Cauldron trying to attract the attention of the Last Laugh and Alley Basher's. I believe his goal is to either join one faction or to make the two compete against one another until both are destroyed. Oye. I cannot tell him that I can't let him get involved with either organization because of what happens later in the game. Twice now I've used a company of Skulk's to attempt a kidnapping, drag her body down into Jzadirune (where they'd be intercepted by the party). But he's a smart cookie and play's his character awful Intelligent (she has an 18 Intelligence, so it's cool). Where we left off, he was just escaping from a Skulk ambush with a city guardsman who was helping the Swashbuckler limp off to the temple of Cuthbert for healing. This is an easy tie in for combining the party. If he doesn't bite, I believe I'm going to simply cut off any encounter's. No experience points, no treasure. So I guess I'm typing up this ancedote partly to vent off my own fustration, and to ask for advice on what else I could pull to unify my table as a single party. "Talk to him about it" is a common (and usually excellent) answer given on these boards. But it has no place here. He knows what both my Skulk attacks were, and he knows that having my table split is causing me some grief (espically last session when a portion of the party was kidnapped and dragged down into the prison's of Malachite, oye that was a long night). And if he doesn't opt to bite my hook, I cannot railroad any character into compliance. Thank you.
Kaligrad 07-23-07, 12:30 AM	Tell him that his character is not a PC. He's not part of the party, so there's no reason for someone to roleplay his actions. Tell him that either his character has to find a reason to join with the party or else roll up a new character who will. No player should be able to demand so much exclusive time from the DM.
dknight100 07-23-07, 12:51 AM	Yea - just stop devoting time to their character. Tell him that as the DM, your campaign is with the party. If he goes off on his own, and ignores that you want him back with the party, then he's just not playing in your campaign. He can be in the campaign when he's back with the party.
WhiteRaven810 07-23-07, 01:05 AM	I should also mention that his guy is co-owner of my FLGS where my party plays every other saturday. So I'ma not going to **** him off. Not that I'm going to tip toe around his character though either. So this has to be handled with finess and care.
Kaligrad 07-23-07, 01:36 AM	Then explain it to him carefully. It sounds like the campaign has just started, so he can't have gotten too attached to his character. Perhaps he actually has his own ideas on why his character is remaining aloof; ask him about it. If he is adamant about staying apart, explain the difficulties of running two campaigns simultaniously, and how unfair it is to the other players. We often do things out of ignorance that we wouldn't if it were just explained to us properly.
jagraham 07-23-07, 12:02 PM	That is an annoying situation which has happened to me before. It is usually solved by letting the player wait a few hours, while the party does interesting things and fights some combats. You can say "Nothing of interest happens" to the wandering player as he cools his heels. Bending over backwards to make it work out is definitely a waste of your time as DM. The two organizations will probably be hard to set against each other, since they would not be around too long if they fell for that trick. He may be able to join one group and get a really mundane and time consuming assignments while they figure out if he's for real: - Guard a box in a room for a month - Go undercover at a pig farm for a month - Deliver a sealed package (actually containing a rock) to a distant city. With one of these completed, maybe he can be trusted with something of small importance to the group. If he doesn't, then he gets killed as an infiltrator.
Forfeit 07-23-07, 12:37 PM	Oh boy. It looks like those anoying kids that are owners of the ball and you only allow them to play because no one else has one.
WhiteRaven810 07-23-07, 03:20 PM	I'm thinking my course of action is to not allow him any involvement with the Last Laugh or Alley Basher's, pray he doesn't leave the temple of Cuthbert before the party returns with the orphans, and if he does, simply don't throw the Swashbuckler anything to really do until he meets up with the party.
shadzar 07-23-07, 03:30 PM	I should also mention that his guy is co-owner of my FLGS where my party plays every other saturday. So I'ma not going to **** him off. Not that I'm going to tip toe around his character though either. So this has to be handled with finess and care. seems like similar to my FLGS. but the owners were one DM, another PC. and i quit the game for a while because of similar stupidity on the PC part. sadly you may want to find another FLGS where you and the other players can go. if you are the only D&D group there and the store will lose its player-base then maybe this co-owner will learn to behave or lose your business. i hear some Starbucks actually let people play there. something on their website said something about meetups so many that will help if you need to find another place to play.
Lazigothi 07-23-07, 04:29 PM	I don't know why he should get preferential treatment except that it's good policy to be polite to "anyone." D&D can be played three ways: 1) Solo adventures. If he really wants to ditch the party, perhaps the player wouldn't want to have a character ball-and-chained to any group, then this player is actually going to want to play one of these. Otherwise it wastes the time of everyone while the other waits for the story to get back to them. 2) Group adventures. If you cannot have the potential to create a character that sincerely wants to always adventure together, then this style of gaming is not for you. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. A particular adventure might happen to spotlight one character, but since everyone gets the spotlight and experience, everyone enjoys playing even when the spotlight happens to fall elsewhere. The group has confidence that their DM fairly gives the spotlight equally to everyone. 3) Split-Group adventures: Sometimes circumstances happen that require a member or members to have encounters away from the group, perhaps often. This is not the same as a player who voluntarily, eagerly, and stubbornly tries every trick in the book to ditch the group and summarily abandon the group never to rejoin the party. Perhaps someone has an infrequent secret contact with an insider to get some info, maybe one of the characters has become possessed or charmed, maybe a character astral travels and can't take anyone with them. These are moments where the DM needs to split time between the various party members, but the party members intend on joining back with the group. If time for the group is valuable the DM still has the incentive to rush the solo-ing bit quickly to keep the group united and focused. If the player does indeed want to play with a group, he needs to re-create a character whose concept would keep the group together.
Gareshra 07-23-07, 04:48 PM	I actually envy you. Most of my PC's don't have enough confidence in themselves to be so assertive. Even so, that's taking it too far. Talk to him outside of game is your best bet, since he's obviously resourceful enough to foil your plans for quite some time. Even if he knows he's causing you trouble, just warn him that you're going to have to give him the boot. If that doesn't work, here's some in game possibilities: A. Try throwing encounters at him that he would be able to handle were he grouped, but as such, cannot. Things that play to his class weaknesses. If you really want to have some fun, start skewing events such that the players actually become turned AGAINST him, and as a quest they are forced to hunt him down. He seems to enjoy causing chaos, so introduce a PVP element and see how long he holds out. Of course, if he actually chooses to join the players at that point, you'll need some kind of deus ex machina solution to pop out of nowhere and make the players suddenly friendly, and that's kinda iffy.
Noon 07-23-07, 05:51 PM	"Woops, sorry, I gave the impression you could go off on your own. My mistake - in this game you have to stay with the party. Going off on your own would be like bringing a rifts character and expecting to play it - that's outside what the game contains. It's D&D and you stick with the party. Sorry, should have made it clear - I understand if you can't make it next session" WhiteRaven810: This is where you give one of two traditional responces "It's not my fault, I shouldn't have to say that" or "I don't have enough players to risk that" Or maybe you break with tradition - lets find out! What do you think?