Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sunic_Flames 05-22-07, 11:38 AM	One of them is either tiny or small sized, the other medium. Only thing is the "mount" is bipedal, not to mention it doesn't make much sense to have a cat sized creature riding atop a humanoid's head with a spear or something, although it is an amusing mental picture. I'm not sure what to do about this one, any ideas would be welcome.
geekling 05-22-07, 11:51 AM	Well, is the mount character's player willing to play along with this? I'd be indicated to allow it. With the caveat that they will be following *all* the mounted combat rules. Things like acting on the same initiative, a ride check for the rider to be able to attack if the mount has attacked (don't forget penalties for no saddle, until/unless they manage to get their hands on one suited for that type of mount and possibly something along the lines of the mount can not wear both a back-pack and a saddle. I'd say it's not so much riding on top of their head as riding on their back.) The penalties from a charge applies to both. Concentration checks to be able to cast spells, etc. and so forth. It's hardly going to be more effective than if they acted seperatly. And if little things like that makes your players happy - why not allow it? Edit: Oh! One thing I would not allow though, is the feat mounted combat to apply to a mount that I assume is going to be more directed by voice than by physical means. On the other hand - I'd also scrap the DC 5 to guide with knees, thing.
Onikani 05-22-07, 12:03 PM	just make sure you are enforcing encumbrance. And make those exhaustion checks for the 'mount' It'll be funny, but won't last long...
Sunic_Flames 05-22-07, 12:35 PM	just make sure you are enforcing encumbrance. And make those exhaustion checks for the 'mount' It'll be funny, but won't last long... Well a tiny creature if following the set precedent would weigh around... 5 pounds, maybe as high as 10 with a lot of equipment, small hovers around 25-30... It is a very funny mental image, though I must question how the rider would stay on a freakin dervish... For those not familar with the dervish, imagine sitting on the head or back of someone run/dancing about while slashing with a pair of blades. Have fun.
Grand Theft Otto 05-22-07, 12:38 PM	Who rules Barter town??! http://www.gunghoscifi.com/images/portfolio/sculpture/blaster/DSCF0337.jpg
CCS 05-22-07, 12:41 PM	Ok, so?? Haven't you ever seen Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back? Yoda rides around in lukes backpack while training him.... Now imagine translating that into: My halfling rides around in a specially designed pack - worn by a fully armoured, two-axe wielding, barbarian at least as big as Conan. That's a helluva mount. I'd definitly allow it.
Ack 05-22-07, 12:48 PM	I'd allow it too. Funny you should mention Star Wars; in a game I was in (lo these many years ago, when D&D was still the property of TSR, and Star Wars was a West End Games property) I had a character that was a smallish monkey-like alien. Not much strength or speed to him, but he had hella dexterity and mechanical capability to give any three R2 units trouble. One of the other PCs was a seven foot tall humanoid woman. We reached a compromise; my character rode on her left shoulder (prehensile tail wrapped around her arm for bracing) and watched her back. More to the point, with the laser rifle he had, he could return fire even when she was running for her life. My character got mobility, the other character got a tailgunner. It worked well :D
Sunic_Flames 05-22-07, 12:52 PM	Well, she's not a barbarian but she does have about the same strength... so yeah. It's more a question of how he'd stay on someone moving very quickly and erratically.
Ack 05-22-07, 12:57 PM	Put him in a backpack, with a crossbow, facing the other way. :D
geekling 05-22-07, 01:01 PM	Saddle for bipedal mount (http://www.toughtraveler.com/lug/Diz%20with%20Baby%20Carrier%20backpack.j pg)
elondir 05-22-07, 01:07 PM	Sounds like a fine idea to me.
Munz 05-22-07, 01:16 PM	In the PH under the Ride skill it mentions taking a -5 penalty for using a mount that is otherwise not suitable to be used as a mount. I'm not sure if there is an additional penalty for using a bipedal creature as a mount on top of that or not. I would say as long as you have a backpack you can use, you could probably use that instead of an exotic saddle. But still, you would have to use the "mount's" speed and unless you had ranks in the Ride skill and successful checks (fighting with warhorse, say) I wouldn't allow the player to make an attack without denying his/her character's dexterity modifier along with the other "mount's" dexterity modifier (think of them as bunching/sharing the same space). Obviously it CAN be done. But we're looking at penalties BOTH will share as well. -the Dexterity modifier hit to both character's AC AND Reflex saves. -Encumberance for the one -5 on Ride checks for standard actions to be performed while atop the mount. -Concentration checks to cast spells -Rules should apply for rider if using ranged attacks same as if riding a normal mount That's only a few I can think of off the top of my head. One player in my own group has a kobold sorcerer he befriended and it too stays in the pc's backpack. Every now and again in combat it will peak out and cast the occasional spell (as up to the DM in this case, the kobold IS an NPC after all). But the kobold doesn't do much other than that. Nothing like what I think you're discussing here.
Eric888 05-22-07, 02:01 PM	Since the aquestrian PC is a player, it seems like using ride at all is a little silly. It seems better to use rules for grapple or simply encumbrunce to determine what the charecter can do.
green_yawgmoth 05-22-07, 03:56 PM	That is an amusing idea, especially if the mount PC takes a bunch of charging attack-style feats. What kind of ride DC does a person require? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Wizard Random 05-22-07, 06:15 PM	Arms and Equipment has rules for mounts (such as a human) There is nothing that goes anganst it and everything for it, so have a blast. Besides if a Psicrystal or a Animal Companion can ride the psion/druid (respectivly) there is no reason the small guy couldnt use mounted combat on the big one.
Holy_Beholder 05-22-07, 07:32 PM	I would say that it would depend. I personally could see it, but this would be some much easier if you had someone ride the druid while they were wild shaped into say an elephant. Load the rest of the party on to them with bows. Fighting on a dervish would be incredibly difficult. It would be easier for them to just share a horse, or an elephant(needing house rules for little guy on back to help)After all, war elephants were real, could hold several people, and owned.
nightside_samurai 05-22-07, 08:26 PM	I'm playing a Dwarf Paladin whose mount is an Ape, and let me tell you, it's the most fun I ever had. Some ideas my DM had to even things out for my mount: A special that has straps that hold you in just in case you're in unstable terrain but that also has a quick release so you can jump out. When charging on my mount, only I get an attack since he's on all fours to build up charge speed. In a tunnel, I'm not allowed to move through a friendly space since that would require jumping over a friend and smashing myself into the ceiling. :)
Wizard Random 05-22-07, 09:40 PM	I'm playing a Dwarf Paladin whose mount is an Ape, and let me tell you, it's the most fun I ever had. Some ideas my DM had to even things out for my mount: A special that has straps that hold you in just in case you're in unstable terrain but that also has a quick release so you can jump out. When charging on my mount, only I get an attack since he's on all fours to build up charge speed. In a tunnel, I'm not allowed to move through a friendly space since that would require jumping over a friend and smashing myself into the ceiling. :) I like the compromise you guys came up with but something still bugs me.. The rules are clear, when you're mount charges he gets a attack as well (or more with certain feats) Moving through friendly space doesn;t necessarily constitute jumping, you have 5 feet of space to maneuver hence the reason there is no penalty for moving through. No offense , i mean you guys got it to where it works for you, but i know i would be fighting my extra attack and free movement. Incidently i once had a character who litterly rode the wind ( the little typhoon mount from sandstorm) ah good times.
celtredleg 05-22-07, 10:34 PM	I had two friends do this in an old Runequest game. But it was a dwarf in the front pocket of a giant. Dwarf armed with flintlock of course. It worked well until the first time somebody took out a leg when the giant was running....
Xykon 05-25-07, 02:48 AM	This reminds me of something NinjaRabbit mentioned in ages ago... Be aware that there are abuses to this... Namely by using the ride skill. Its quite amusing although you might get irritated by it... I'm not gonna tell you the exact nature of the abuse, but have a read on the skill and make ur judgement whether to allow this or not.
JerBar 05-25-07, 03:13 AM	I would allow it, until a player found a way to abuse it, then I'd dump it quick. I do not think I would really do anything special though. I do not think I would require a ride check to make the 'mount' character do anything, but I might have the rider make a strength check to stay on each round durring combat or if the 'mount' was running. I might have the 'mount' character make a balance check once in a while to account for having a higher center of gravity. They would each have their full actions each round, barring anything impossable due to one riding the other. If they wanted to act at the same time, I'd most likely make them both roll and take the lowest init. Most of the time I'd let them plan out what they were doing together, but if they could not communicate I might have them secretly tell me what they do and then let them know what happens if their actions do not work well together. I'm not sure what I would do about AC, it might be difficult for either one to get their full dex bonus. It might be more logical to use the mount's Dex for both of their AC. As long as I did not have to add any new rules or change exsisting ones much, I'd most likely allow it.
tahngarth40 05-25-07, 04:14 AM	Its usually alot of fun, just don't let them abuse it. Personally I can't see applying the benefits of some of the mounted combat feats in this case, namely spirited charge, but its not broken and it can be rather entertaining. Reminds me of a campaign where I played a half-ogre/half-dragon fighter and my buddy played a halfling master thrower, we developed one of those front loading baby harnesses for me to carry his character around in. Except it created a problem once when I crashed while flying and fell in to a group of displacer beasts (don't ask) when the halfling tried to bluff to pretend to be dead, the only person who failed the check was me.
Sunic_Flames 05-25-07, 06:30 AM	This reminds me of something NinjaRabbit mentioned in ages ago... Be aware that there are abuses to this... Namely by using the ride skill. Its quite amusing although you might get irritated by it... I'm not gonna tell you the exact nature of the abuse, but have a read on the skill and make ur judgement whether to allow this or not. Already familar with that trick, part of the reason why I'm reluctant.
Yokomohoyo 05-25-07, 07:12 AM	Ive done it in the past. What we did in a game a few years ago was that I played a Minotaur barbarian and my friend whom lives for spell casters played a pixie sorccerer. What the DM ruled was that the smaller character (the pixie in this case) would have to ride in a platform that was made ontop of my backpack (sort of like the first boss of shadow of the colosus for PS2) so that he could shoot off his spells. The pixie would take total concealment from me from frontal attacks and from rear attacks we would use the better of the two AC's (for when he got greater mage armor and shield spell). The pixie could not blast off AOE spells to the front of me without takeing an attack roll to miss my head LOL! I could not grab things from my backpack without a full round action to take off my pack but the pixie could take a half round action to retrive something and give it to me. It was quite fun, but when I died due to a splat trap (Huge block landing on my head) so did the pixie LOL.
risner 05-25-07, 09:21 AM	I'm not sure what to do about this one, any ideas would be welcome. It is legal. The medium PC would be a mount with the following penalties: -5 "ill suited as a mount (such as most bipedal creatures)" -5 "If you are riding bareback" --- -10 penalty
Sakaki22 05-25-07, 02:15 PM	Cover You can react instantly to drop down and hang alongside your mount, using it as cover. You can’t attack or cast spells while using your mount as cover. If you fail your Ride check, you don’t get the cover benefit. This usage does not take an action. I'd do this and see if the Dervish still wants to be a mount. In related tidbits, I was a small character who used another PC, a Large Dragon, as a mount. I rode on his head under a sombrero. Fun times.