Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheDarkLord 06-11-04, 01:48 AM	Yeah... how do you handle PC's who come up with the backstory that they are born as a third son to a very wealthy traveling merchant. He really wasn't going to get as big of an Inheritance as his two older siblings, but was still going to get a very large inheritance in relevance to 2nd level starting PC's. I've ruled on it about the Money he can recieve, I'm just curious as to what you would rule for characters like this..
Eck 06-11-04, 02:19 AM	I'd say his merchant parent disapproves of his adventuring profession. Either the character wouldn't get his inheritance or getting the inheritance would be an adventure itself. Maybe he has to run a branch of the family business for a year.(great for a few political/RP heavy sessions) Or maybe he just starts with the standard level 2 starting money and that "IS" his inheritance. In either case, just because he puts at the end of his backstory, "Oh yeah, and my family is rich." Doesn't mean "FREE MONEY! WOOOOO!" :) - Eck
ourden 06-11-04, 02:26 AM	hmm. What is his father like? What is his mother like? Is the family Patriarcal or Matriarcal? How big is the age diff. between the siblings? Does his older siblings like him? What class is the PC? His Father/Mother might require him to "earn" his inheirtance. Make a name for himself so to speak. Father /Mother might dislike his choises in life. "No son of mine is going to prance about the lands like some common vagabond" Father/Mother might orders him around all the time "You will act as guard to the caravan leaving for -insert destination- tomorrow ! Remember who paid for your equipment... Or they might demand a percentage of his share of the treasures the party finds. "For the good of the family"
hecate 06-11-04, 02:34 AM	The Player's Guide to Faerun has a feat called Mercantile Background, and while it may not be precisly what you are angled for, it is a good starting point for wealthy characters. (+300gp at 1st level, re-sale items at 75% worth instead of 50%, and can purchase one item at 75% (1/month).)
TheDarkLord 06-11-04, 02:41 AM	hmm. What is his father like? What is his mother like? Is the family Patriarcal or Matriarcal? Patriarchal. He has one older and one younger sister but they won't recieve an inheritance since they will be marrying into a rich merchant family. How big is the age diff. between the siblings? Does his older siblings like him? What class is the PC? He's 8 years younger than his elder brother, 4 years younger than his second brother. His sister is 1 year older than him, and his younger sister is 2 years younger than he is. His family loves him dearly, they worship Lady Martia, a benevolent NG deity (homebrew). The PC class is Rogue, he was trained by one of his father's personal bodyguards. The reason he is adventuring is because he is not taking over the family business. His second eldest brother also is an adventurer (NPC) already walking the world. So now he too has to walk the world to find a chosen profession and get married and have, as his mother put it "Lots and Lots of children".
Marshall Stone 06-11-04, 02:43 AM	Originally posted by TheDarkLord Yeah... how do you handle PC's who come up with the backstory that they are born as a third son to a very wealthy traveling merchant. He really wasn't going to get as big of an Inheritance as his two older siblings, but was still going to get a very large inheritance in relevance to 2nd level starting PC's. I've ruled on it about the Money he can recieve, I'm just curious as to what you would rule for characters like this.. I've had this "problem" before and their are a few ways I tried to handle it. I tried to use the D20 Modern "Wealth System". Starting the player at a Wealth score of 11 modified by Charisma. And basically you assign a Purchase DC to an Item, let the player roll and if he makes the DC he got the item. This got somewhat complicated and annoying though. I also tried assigning a Wealth Feat, that simply gave the PC 2,000gp extra. But I found everybody was trying to take advantage of the feat. I modified it so that you could only take it at first level, but still, all of a sudden everyone came from a rich merchant family. Finally I tried to just role-play it out. I never gave the PC gold, but did give him access to the family's resources after getting permission first from his Parents. This way I controlled what items he got, and he was responsible for the items. If he lost a horse, for example, then he owed the family gold. Also the family could make requests/commands of the PC that he would have to follow if he wanted the continued resource, he was thier contact and they were his contact. He was also only able to get whatever reasonably the family might have. A SHIP was not something a land-base merchant family had access too. This seemed to work out the best. He had to stay relatively close to his family to take advantage of the resource, and so couldn't just use the resource any time he wanted, he had to plan ahead. It also made little things easier to deal with, like Trail rations, and torches, or what have you, "Yeah, Master Redgrave got those from his family's wares for us."
TheDarkLord 06-11-04, 02:49 AM	I've never had this "problem" before. The people I DM for and play with are all self-made. Every time we play they have no problems with the standard starting gold, they take it and run with it. This was an aberration for the party. He wants to play a character that was somewhat snooty and stuck up but also have a kind and benevolent nature. As he grows he'll decide which way his character grows, whether to be greedy (i know the guy and i seriously doubt this will happen) or to be a very kind Lord. I just ruled that he would recieve his inheritance at a later date, and for now any supplies/weapons he needs he can petition his family for since they have the money to spare, his father has yet to retire and is somewhat of a big cheese in certain circles.
thofighta 06-11-04, 05:26 AM	Okey, whenever pcs does such, there are some tricks: Whopsie, they are richies... that means burglers, assasinators, and other naughty people are after their heads usually... Someone want them dead, perhaps his older brother wants to murder him to get a bigger share of the cake? Perhaps the father is wanting his son to show that he can make a living of himself before he inherites the money. Perhaps the father never dies? :O :D Figure out something. Perhaps the little fool gets his platemail and all that, but a higher lvl rogue finds out, he steal, or take it away from him. The fourth time that happen, he would sure not get a new one from daddy. Why should daddy give such stuff to his hopeless son that always just looses it anyway?
ck2001wendt 06-11-04, 05:58 AM	-If you are rich, you probably wonīt be an adventurer, unless itīs a "weekend warrior" who only does it for sport. -Coming from a rich family doesnīt mean all benefits. It could mean getting disowned, having to be afraid of kidnappers\bandits\political rivals, being obligated to a king or other nobility, having much of the wealth tied up in speculation or risky ventures like sea voyages (good adventure hook, having he party guard an important shipment), having to balance damage to the family name against adventuring (adventurers are basically "mercenaries" unless they are state- or Church-sponsored, and therefore a black mark for most nobles). -On the whole, coming from a rich background can have great RP benefits and consequences, but mechanically it shouldnīt interfere with the roles you make or the equipment you get. For example, one of the players in my campaign is the son of a minor aristocrat (a mutal choice in fleshing out the character). His family has some money, but her never sees it...because itīs his FATHERīs money, and no one likes a freeloader. Since his family is in the Diplomatic Corps and has some renown, he does get ACCESS...getting assigned important missions, being allowed to talk to mid-level officals without an appointment. But his Diplomacy checks are still straight-up. It also lets the party stay at his fatherīs On the other hand, I recently introduced a sub-plot...because heīs a noble AND an adventurer, his father is pressuring him to give up adventuring for full-time state service, AND to marry the "spirited" daughter of a more prominent merchant house as a strategic move for the family. The player will now have to balance service to country with the family name\a family of his own and his adventuring carrer. -The starting GP is the starting GP. No exceptions, unless you (the DM) allow them. If the player wants to be rich at level 1, make him start as a level 1 Aristocrat. We had a character do that once, and even then it was a little unbalancing, because he put it all into a kickass horse.
Revelation 06-11-04, 07:17 AM	Lots of good ideas already. Thinking of it from a historical prespective being a minor son doesn't necessarily get you anything. Henry VIII of England was a younger son and probably would have become a priest had his elder brother lived. The family has no reason to support a younger son, they might love him, but the family business needs money, and is not a charity. Minor sons used to chase rich middle class women to get their money, and in turn bestow respectability. Minor sons also were the ones who went out into the world to seek a fortune, and they didn't do it on expeditions equipped by their families, they went along as extras or scrimped/begged/borrowed what they needed. Being a minor son might give you a little bit of nicer kit, MW armour and a weapon, and some changes of good, not necessarily practical, clothes. On a seperate note if they are respectable merchants and he's a rogue that could be a serious negative, depending on his style of play. "Ho Trader, isn't your son the one known for backstabbing his enemies, on the other hand I'll take my business elsewhere."
bitnine 06-11-04, 07:22 AM	Originally posted by hecate The Player's Guide to Faerun has a feat called Mercantile Background, and while it may not be precisly what you are angled for, it is a good starting point for wealthy characters.This is likely the route that I would take; if a player wants his backstory to also provide to him some sort of mechanical benefit, I would allow him to use a starting feat to grant such.
Sparks The untouchable 06-11-04, 02:40 PM	I have a player in my current campiagn who worked it into his back ground that he has a venyard and makes really good wine whitch he sells. He thought this ment "free gold WOOT!" Then i explained to him that such an estate would need a view things like poeple to manufacture the wine and runn the estate. This costs money. In the end he gets about 500gp monthly of net profit. Not a bad living but when it comes to buying magic items and the like not very particle. Also he would have to return home once a month to collect it. Again in my campaigns not very particle becuase i like to move my pcs around a lot. It's working out ok and he is now taking levels of pallidin. palidins like giving to charity right? " PLease mista Palidin can i have some gold my family is starving and little Tiny Tim is very sick." he has rich parents ok run with it. His parents are rich he may not be so rich.
TheDarkLord 06-11-04, 03:28 PM	Originally posted by Revelation On a seperate note if they are respectable merchants and he's a rogue that could be a serious negative, depending on his style of play. "Ho Trader, isn't your son the one known for backstabbing his enemies, on the other hand I'll take my business elsewhere." Since when are NG rogues backstabbers and thieves? He is a minor son, but he is beloved by his parents. They wanted him to become a scholar, he didn't want to become a scholar. He basically wanted to be an adventurer like his elder brother, not a businessman like his oldest brother or father. While he loves and treasures them all, he feel's like he has the right to choose what he wants to do with his life. And though his parents my not agree to it, it is against thier religion and teachings to disown/disbar thier son from anything that will come to him after his father dies. After reading your post's i can see where your concerns lie, I can see where this could seriously be abusive. But what I did was rule he would recieve his inheritance at a later date, after his father died. Basically he was given a MW rapier, studded leather armor, Shortbow, and 4 daggers, trail rations, equipment. Anything you need to travel. It was basically free. the only difference between him and the other playes around this level is the MW weapon, and he has a few more GP's in his pocket. As far as I can tell, nothing is out of whack or anything so far. And since he is traveling, if he wants anything free, he'll have to travel back home to get it (as long as it's not something outrageous..).
Soulsheath 06-11-04, 04:04 PM	In my travels, I have never found a merchant that sold everything. What business is his family into? What items/resources does he actually have access to? Is his family headed for a recession? Can someone else sell the same things at a cheaper price therefor turning a wealthy family into a middle-class one. There are many variations to this type of background and how to deal with it but it appears that you have it well in hand and just wanted to see what others would do. Personally I would rather have a character that wanted to buy everything in town than one who always asked "Is it my turn to hit yet?"
MinusInnocence 06-11-04, 04:06 PM	I wouldn't have given him an extra dime. Have you SEEN how much starting money 1st level characters receive? That is well beyond the range of your typical Commoner family... or even what may exist of middle class merchants and craftsmen in your campaign. The only difference between a noble and a peasant at 1st level is the noble gets their "starting gold" as a tangible amount of real gold pieces; while a peasant's family has to scrape together an assortment of equipment and hand-me-downs to give to their son who has chosen death as an occupation. Of course, Aristocrat is also a reasonable choice of class for 1st level (by the way, there's another thread somewhere around here that essentially deals with the same problem you have). Anyway, I think being part of a wealthy family shouldn't mystically grant automatic advantages right out of the starting gate; what if everyone in the party came from mercantile roots? Then that character wouldn't be very special at all. What makes him special is the meat of his background story: the family itself. Yeah he gets his share when his father dies, paltry though it might be; maybe between now and then, the father could inherit a wild and untamed area of the local lord's territories and it naturally goes to the ADVENTURER, because taming wilderness is what they do. You could also tempt the character. Perhaps a Succubus or Glabrezu comes to the aristocrat and whispers that he has seen his father's will; and although the old coot is secretly having doubts about his recent decision, three weeks ago he wrote the other siblings out! The man's mind is slipping, and he is beginning to grow cynical about the PC's choice in occupations. If the PC wants to see any of the family fortune, he must act now. Of course, the Glabrezu would be lying. There is no such change to the will, or perhaps there was; but now all the money belongs to the mother, so if the PC wants any of it he has to kill both parents, not just one. And by that time he will probably be caught and executed anyway... score one for the Abyss!