Characters owning property? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Characters owning property? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JakWote
12-05-05, 03:41 AM I'm not extremely experienced with the finer points of running a campaign, and I've run into a calamity. My characters have aquired a building (after dispaching the previous owners), and I'm unsure how exactly to react to that. Anyone have suggestions on what sort of things I ought to be thinking about with this?
TLomon
12-05-05, 03:44 AM Look at the rules for strongholds. Also, you can have taxes, attempted hostile takeovers, cost for servants, maintenance, etc. The possibilities are endless. Of course, if the building is in a city, they would have to deal with the local government. In the middle of no where, repairs would be expensive due to having to import craftsmen and supplies.

Think of this as a roleplaying possibility.
Torack
12-05-05, 03:49 AM Well...there's a number of things you can do:

a) Have them clean up the property and opening it for business (if viable). You could attempt to wrap it up in a short introduction to your next adventure (Make sure the PC's spend the appropriate cash to restore the building.). Make sure the characters draw out any plans they have (including maps of the various stories.)

b) You could have it act like a base. Or safe haven where the adventurers return and can get a solid 8hrs worth of rest without interruption.

c) You could have rivals attempt to burn down/destroy the place, badmouth the PC's etc.

And much much more.

The biggest issue is that all of a sudden the characters have gained a location where they could seemingly store in infinite amount of stuff and be safe from whatever the outside world brings.
Just remember that owning property in a fantasy world doesn't necessarily make that so much different from our own society. They'd still have to fork over the cash, get the appropriate permits and face off against rivals that heard so-and-so is no longer alive.
HyperVyperBeam
12-05-05, 04:18 AM Let the characters decide what they want to do with it.

If they want to set up shop there, then fine.

If they want to run some kind of business/guild/brothel/publishing agency, then fine, but it's there job to hire and maintain employees.

If they're not going to be around the building much and they still want to keep it rather then walk off and forget all about it, then maybe you might want to help them to establish some trustworthy (or not) NPC to look after the place while they are away. Or they can rent out space to anyone interested. Of course if they want to sell it, they'll probably have some trouble as they will need proper papers of ownership, so if they do it on the downlow they're sure to get a sum well below what the property value is.

It's alright for characters to have property of their own. I can't see it completely devastating your game. But before you react, just first get an idea of what the characters want to use the place for, if they even want to use it at all.

It's always cool to have a place to live and hang out. And you never know what could go down. They could even start their own adventuring business.

But they'd better be careful not to hire that secretary with the attitude, she's bound to run the place into the ground with one of her huge parties while the adventurers are off somewhere adventuring.
FriendoftheDork
12-05-05, 07:01 AM Well you might think of the people who knows the previous owners... they might take offense that the PCs killed their friends and now occupies their house.

Assitionally the law might have something to say, squatting isn't generally accepted, and killing the previous owners doesen't make the town guard more lenient I'd say ;)

You gotta give us more info. Where, whom, why?
rkr1970
12-05-05, 11:00 AM I once did this to a group. They captured a small castle, and while in fairly bad shape, they managed to get it repaired and started using it as a base of operations. Before long, peasants started asking for parcels of land to rent so that they could farm near by, under the protection of such "powerful lords". The PCs fell for it. Before too long, they had to run out of their castle to fix every little problem that cropped up. Fighting off the dragon was fine with them, but hunting down a cave full of stirges for a high level party was kind of a nuisance. It wasn't long befoer they set up someone else to play landlord while they went back to freebooted adventuring.
Good Agnostic
12-05-05, 02:22 PM They dispatched the previous owner? If the previous owner is dead, then the title of the property passes to the former owner's heir, not the murderous band who killed the owner.

Have the party arrested for murder (roleplay clearing their names if it was justifiable homocide) and then sued by the new owner (the heir) for wrongful death and sue for eviction.

PC's should only get property they lawfully purchase. And, just because the BBEG who owned the castl was evil, doesn't mean his surviving heirs are.
Belgarath
12-05-05, 03:18 PM Look at the rules for strongholds. Also, you can have taxes, attempted hostile takeovers, cost for servants, maintenance, etc. The possibilities are endless. Of course, if the building is in a city, they would have to deal with the local government. In the middle of no where, repairs would be expensive due to having to import craftsmen and supplies.

Think of this as a roleplaying possibility.

precisely
JakWote
12-05-05, 05:43 PM The basic plot here is they got a job to recover a wedding ring stolen from the wife of a rather influential noble. They track the thief down to a building in town that most think of as a warehouse or private club, it gets very little traffic. They snuck in, got the ring back, did a little killing to get out, but instead of taking the open path to the door, they decided to clear out the entire building to look for loot (where there's one thief, maybe there's more?). Long story short, they're now the only ones who know the prevoius owners are dead, and there's little chance anyone in the town would notice or care the building is under new ownership.

I like the idea of others coming to do business with the previous owners, that leaves a lot of room for things to happen, and roleplay opportunities.
Dealing with the local government will be fun, taxes and whatnot.

Thanks.
Gworraent
12-05-05, 06:49 PM the second dm's guide has rules on running businesses
wrecan
12-05-05, 07:06 PM they decided to clear out the entire building to look for loot (where there's one thief, maybe there's more?). Long story short, they're now the only ones who know the prevoius owners are dead, and there's little chance anyone in the town would notice or care the building is under new ownership.

I find that difficult to believe. If a building's owner isn't around, the local lord gets it and can then resell it for a nice profit. So basically, you're saying the local lord is more than happy to let squatters get money that should be going to him. I don't think so.

Everybody who owns property should require a writ for such property. All transfers of property must be approved by the lord (or his designated clerk), which probably involves a transfer fee to go to the lord. No halfway competent lord is going to just let this stuff slide.

At some point in the next year, a clerk is going to come by and ask to see the owner and his real estate taxes. If it's not the owner, then the players are going to be arrested for operating a business without a writ. And anybody who knows the players aren't the owners can blackmail the party with this info (if they're chaotic or neutral) or turn the party in (if they are lawful).
TJMHPH
12-05-05, 10:01 PM refer to the strong holders build guide. for value and intresting architecture. :D
JakWote
12-06-05, 07:44 PM I find that difficult to believe. If a building's owner isn't around, the local lord gets it and can then resell it for a nice profit. So basically, you're saying the local lord is more than happy to let squatters get money that should be going to him. I don't think so.

Everybody who owns property should require a writ for such property. All transfers of property must be approved by the lord (or his designated clerk), which probably involves a transfer fee to go to the lord. No halfway competent lord is going to just let this stuff slide.

At some point in the next year, a clerk is going to come by and ask to see the owner and his real estate taxes. If it's not the owner, then the players are going to be arrested for operating a business without a writ. And anybody who knows the players aren't the owners can blackmail the party with this info (if they're chaotic or neutral) or turn the party in (if they are lawful).

It's not a lord system, there's a town government with a council, and the former owners of the building were highly disliked by the council. They were a suspected group of thieves, with little to no evidence pointing directly at them. They'll probably go about the proper legal proceedings to acquire the rights to the building, and seeing as how it is within the city walls they'll probably face fines, taxes and maybe charges for what they did.
They're not getting off easy, nor will they be squatting. Thanks for the input though, I like the yearly taxes bit, and having a writ of ownership.
ChaoticGood
12-06-05, 07:58 PM The town council doesn't like them, so it's ok to break into their house and kill them? Wow, talk about your Chaotic societies! :P

But hey, it's your game, man. As long as the players are having fun... *hands off!*
JakWote
12-07-05, 05:49 AM I'm not saying there won't be reprocussions for them, but I doubt they'll be put to death.
wrecan
12-07-05, 09:26 AM I'm surprised they'd be allowed to keep the building. They are squatters and they did murder the inhabitants (maybe with justification).
Derren S.
12-07-05, 09:33 AM No way the Pcs should get the building. They are after all murderers and unless the council is all chaotic it doesn't matter if council disliked the former owners. And even when the PCs can prove that they really were thieves, that doesn't give them the right to execute them especially as theft is probably not punished by death.
yellowdingo
12-07-05, 09:39 AM Depends on the property. Sooner or later Bailiffs will probably show up to collect rent. After word gets around that your band of thugs have moved into the burbs, your little crack house can look forward to a raid by the city Watch, Life for murder if they dont hang for it. What ever else the legitimate government can pin on them.

I suggest you knock up some wanted posters. Circulate their descriptions. Make them known before they arrive.

"Arlo of Deepwell." Franco accosted the well described young man in the street.
"Have we met?"
"Your reputation preceeds you!"
"Is that Good?" Arlo of Deepwell smiled like he had won the kings lottery.
"Not realy!" Franco of the City Watch waved for the other Guards. Arlo stopped smiling.
wrecan
12-07-05, 10:46 AM I imagine the modern analog as follows:

Wealthy businessman finds out that his wife's wedding ring has been stolen. The cops either don't care, or are too busy to investigate the theft properly, so the councilman hires some bounty hunters to recover the ring.

The bounty hunters investigate and track the thief to a crack house, which has become the blight of the neightborhood. The lawful owner of the property is a slumlord that the city council has been trying unsuccessfully to evict for years. He also lives in the building and operates a small crime ring.

The bounty hunters break into the building, find the thief and then kill him in self-defense. The slumlord orders the bounty hunters killed. They blast their way towards the street and...

...then decide to turn around, kill all the residents of the crack house and take their loot. Once they cleared the crack house out, they decide to convert the building into a Jack-in-the-Box and make money as a fast food franchisee.

Now, up until the ellipses ("...") the bounty hunters were probably in their legal rights. Everything after the "..." ellipses is criminal.

Do you really think the town council is going to think "Boy, we really hated that slumlord. Let's reward his murderers by giving them the deed to the building without paying for it."

No way! Maybe(!) the town council will look the other way as to the crackhead murders (although I have to imagine all those dead victims had family members who aren't too happy with the bounty hunters' trigger-happy vigilantism), but to let these guys set up shop?! No.

It's one thing if this happened in no-man's land. But this happened in a town, where there is nominally some law and order. What's to stop some other band of evil brigands from driving the PCs out and taking over?
jasper
12-07-05, 11:39 AM i could do a real year of possiblities mentioned here and with a warehouse
They are consider heroes for wiping out the thieves den. Key to city to party leader and a party. There one night of gaming there.
Upkeep on the building if the town council votes to let the party keep it and allow them to pay back taxes on it. Hmm maybe old man Jasper wants the warehouse for a Jack in the Box. Can the party out bribe the council or old mad Jasper.
Real owner ghost who was killed by thieves shows up is not happy with situation or even the newer nicer tenants
What is under the warehouse since it was the local thevies den?
Was the local thieves den the local union house of kingdom thieves den.
Does the regional mob boss take notice of what happen?
Or is he just interested in the contents of black falcon statue.
How do the other local owners like the new owners.
Etc
If the players want to keep the building I would switch off adventures. One at home base, one standard outside town.
Talk with your players and see what they want. IMC some players own an inn, one and half castles (both being haunted by vampire who was their former companion), one keep and lord of hommlet, one mansion and ship and is being thought of as mayor of Salt marsh, One group has shop and a member is running for town council..
meshon
12-07-05, 11:53 AM If the society is generally chaotic (as seems to be the case) then some gather information and diplomacy will probably get the PCs an audience with the person they need to bribe to make this problem disappear. Of course that bribe will probably be a monthly thing...

I think characters owning property is fantastic for everyone. The players tend to take ownership of the game world and get involved in it.

Just make sure it doesn't turn into Taxes & Tenents. There's not a lot of replay value in that one.

cheers!
Auburn
12-07-05, 12:05 PM Who's to say the deed to the property isn't in the building waiting to be found by the party?

Plus as the original poster said the people who did own the place didn't have any friends in the rest of the city. Who's going to know what happened to the original owners? Moreover who's going to care?
Derren S.
12-07-05, 12:10 PM Plus as the original poster said the people who did own the place didn't have any friends in the rest of the city. Who's going to know what happened to the original owners? Moreover who's going to care?

The owners were known to the city council which was apparently interested in them so they will notice it when they are found dead and unless they are very chaotic they can't ignore it.
Auburn
12-07-05, 12:15 PM The owners were known to the city council which was apparently interested in them so they will notice it when they are found dead and unless they are very chaotic they can't ignore it.

If the party moves in and cleans up who's going to find the bodies? Without bodies they can just say the old owners moved out, and given that the authorities were already out to get the old owners to begin with why really hassle the people who took care of their problem. Even if they know the PCs murdered the old owners I don't see any reason why the powers that be just won't take them aside and say, "Good job guys. Leave the law abiding people here alone, and we'll leave you alone about this little incident." It's not like the old owners have people favorably dispositioned towards them in town who are going to cause a fuss when this is swept uunder the rug.
wrecan
12-07-05, 12:20 PM The owners were known to the city council which was apparently interested in them so they will notice it when they are found dead and unless they are very chaotic they can't ignore it.

Right. Even if they are chaotic, why wouldn't they turn it to their advantage. Even if I hated the prior owner, the building has a value. To the city council. Allowing the town heroes to get the building as a windfall isn't being Chaotic. It's being idiotic. The PCs should have to pay the value of the building (and maybe they can afford that -- it's in a bad section fo town, so it may not be that expensive).

But the right of conquest doesn't apply to municipal buildings!

And to the prior poster, finding a deed doesn't entitle you to the building. The deed merely identifies the registered owner. Now, the party could forge a new deed showing the prior owner passed it to them before they killed him. I think that would be fairly unbelievable, but accompanied by a few well-placed bribes, it might be cheaper than buying the building outright.

The point is: real estate ain't like other treasure. It's not finders keepers.
Jesper
12-07-05, 12:37 PM The partys level might also be a factor here too. Would the local lord who has an army of 50 level 1 fighters 3 ltn 3 level fighters 1 town wizard level 3 and 1 champion level 9 bar go about trying to evict a group of level 18 claric wiz fighter and thife? the town is not dumb if it looks like they can't win they won't try
Ogmug
12-07-05, 12:38 PM It all depends on the campaign and how YOU want to run it.

It is all good and dandy for everyone here to state "it doesn't happen like that" but unless you have set down laws for that particular area, it is entirely upto you how you want to handle it.

In some campaigns, might makes right. You have the power to control it? then it is yours. In some campaigns, finders keepers. In still others, all property belongs to the king and you just "rent" it in the form of taxes.

Basically, it is upto you to decide what happens. If you are looking for suggestions then:

1. Does the building actually belong to the city?
2. Is the building in the city?
3. how does the council view buildings within the city? Are unclaimed properties concidered to be owned by the council?
4. How does the council view vigilanteism (sp)?
5. Is the council greedy?
6. Was the building actually "stolen" form other owners? or the Council?
7. How grateful is the council that you routed the theives?

All of the above could be taken into account when determing how to deal with this. If the building is in town, the council views that everything in city limits is council property and you pay for the right to live here with taxes, and they are greedy they might demand payment for the value of the building, and allow the players to use it as a base of operations, with the appropriate tax. If they are a benevolent council, they might reward them with the building, but require taxes still, and maybe improvements to increase the value of the area, etc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JakWote 12-05-05, 03:41 AM	I'm not extremely experienced with the finer points of running a campaign, and I've run into a calamity. My characters have aquired a building (after dispaching the previous owners), and I'm unsure how exactly to react to that. Anyone have suggestions on what sort of things I ought to be thinking about with this?
TLomon 12-05-05, 03:44 AM	Look at the rules for strongholds. Also, you can have taxes, attempted hostile takeovers, cost for servants, maintenance, etc. The possibilities are endless. Of course, if the building is in a city, they would have to deal with the local government. In the middle of no where, repairs would be expensive due to having to import craftsmen and supplies. Think of this as a roleplaying possibility.
Torack 12-05-05, 03:49 AM	Well...there's a number of things you can do: a) Have them clean up the property and opening it for business (if viable). You could attempt to wrap it up in a short introduction to your next adventure (Make sure the PC's spend the appropriate cash to restore the building.). Make sure the characters draw out any plans they have (including maps of the various stories.) b) You could have it act like a base. Or safe haven where the adventurers return and can get a solid 8hrs worth of rest without interruption. c) You could have rivals attempt to burn down/destroy the place, badmouth the PC's etc. And much much more. The biggest issue is that all of a sudden the characters have gained a location where they could seemingly store in infinite amount of stuff and be safe from whatever the outside world brings. Just remember that owning property in a fantasy world doesn't necessarily make that so much different from our own society. They'd still have to fork over the cash, get the appropriate permits and face off against rivals that heard so-and-so is no longer alive.
HyperVyperBeam 12-05-05, 04:18 AM	Let the characters decide what they want to do with it. If they want to set up shop there, then fine. If they want to run some kind of business/guild/brothel/publishing agency, then fine, but it's there job to hire and maintain employees. If they're not going to be around the building much and they still want to keep it rather then walk off and forget all about it, then maybe you might want to help them to establish some trustworthy (or not) NPC to look after the place while they are away. Or they can rent out space to anyone interested. Of course if they want to sell it, they'll probably have some trouble as they will need proper papers of ownership, so if they do it on the downlow they're sure to get a sum well below what the property value is. It's alright for characters to have property of their own. I can't see it completely devastating your game. But before you react, just first get an idea of what the characters want to use the place for, if they even want to use it at all. It's always cool to have a place to live and hang out. And you never know what could go down. They could even start their own adventuring business. But they'd better be careful not to hire that secretary with the attitude, she's bound to run the place into the ground with one of her huge parties while the adventurers are off somewhere adventuring.
FriendoftheDork 12-05-05, 07:01 AM	Well you might think of the people who knows the previous owners... they might take offense that the PCs killed their friends and now occupies their house. Assitionally the law might have something to say, squatting isn't generally accepted, and killing the previous owners doesen't make the town guard more lenient I'd say ;) You gotta give us more info. Where, whom, why?
rkr1970 12-05-05, 11:00 AM	I once did this to a group. They captured a small castle, and while in fairly bad shape, they managed to get it repaired and started using it as a base of operations. Before long, peasants started asking for parcels of land to rent so that they could farm near by, under the protection of such "powerful lords". The PCs fell for it. Before too long, they had to run out of their castle to fix every little problem that cropped up. Fighting off the dragon was fine with them, but hunting down a cave full of stirges for a high level party was kind of a nuisance. It wasn't long befoer they set up someone else to play landlord while they went back to freebooted adventuring.
Good Agnostic 12-05-05, 02:22 PM	They dispatched the previous owner? If the previous owner is dead, then the title of the property passes to the former owner's heir, not the murderous band who killed the owner. Have the party arrested for murder (roleplay clearing their names if it was justifiable homocide) and then sued by the new owner (the heir) for wrongful death and sue for eviction. PC's should only get property they lawfully purchase. And, just because the BBEG who owned the castl was evil, doesn't mean his surviving heirs are.
Belgarath 12-05-05, 03:18 PM	Look at the rules for strongholds. Also, you can have taxes, attempted hostile takeovers, cost for servants, maintenance, etc. The possibilities are endless. Of course, if the building is in a city, they would have to deal with the local government. In the middle of no where, repairs would be expensive due to having to import craftsmen and supplies. Think of this as a roleplaying possibility. precisely
JakWote 12-05-05, 05:43 PM	The basic plot here is they got a job to recover a wedding ring stolen from the wife of a rather influential noble. They track the thief down to a building in town that most think of as a warehouse or private club, it gets very little traffic. They snuck in, got the ring back, did a little killing to get out, but instead of taking the open path to the door, they decided to clear out the entire building to look for loot (where there's one thief, maybe there's more?). Long story short, they're now the only ones who know the prevoius owners are dead, and there's little chance anyone in the town would notice or care the building is under new ownership. I like the idea of others coming to do business with the previous owners, that leaves a lot of room for things to happen, and roleplay opportunities. Dealing with the local government will be fun, taxes and whatnot. Thanks.
Gworraent 12-05-05, 06:49 PM	the second dm's guide has rules on running businesses
wrecan 12-05-05, 07:06 PM	they decided to clear out the entire building to look for loot (where there's one thief, maybe there's more?). Long story short, they're now the only ones who know the prevoius owners are dead, and there's little chance anyone in the town would notice or care the building is under new ownership. I find that difficult to believe. If a building's owner isn't around, the local lord gets it and can then resell it for a nice profit. So basically, you're saying the local lord is more than happy to let squatters get money that should be going to him. I don't think so. Everybody who owns property should require a writ for such property. All transfers of property must be approved by the lord (or his designated clerk), which probably involves a transfer fee to go to the lord. No halfway competent lord is going to just let this stuff slide. At some point in the next year, a clerk is going to come by and ask to see the owner and his real estate taxes. If it's not the owner, then the players are going to be arrested for operating a business without a writ. And anybody who knows the players aren't the owners can blackmail the party with this info (if they're chaotic or neutral) or turn the party in (if they are lawful).
TJMHPH 12-05-05, 10:01 PM	refer to the strong holders build guide. for value and intresting architecture. :D
JakWote 12-06-05, 07:44 PM	I find that difficult to believe. If a building's owner isn't around, the local lord gets it and can then resell it for a nice profit. So basically, you're saying the local lord is more than happy to let squatters get money that should be going to him. I don't think so. Everybody who owns property should require a writ for such property. All transfers of property must be approved by the lord (or his designated clerk), which probably involves a transfer fee to go to the lord. No halfway competent lord is going to just let this stuff slide. At some point in the next year, a clerk is going to come by and ask to see the owner and his real estate taxes. If it's not the owner, then the players are going to be arrested for operating a business without a writ. And anybody who knows the players aren't the owners can blackmail the party with this info (if they're chaotic or neutral) or turn the party in (if they are lawful). It's not a lord system, there's a town government with a council, and the former owners of the building were highly disliked by the council. They were a suspected group of thieves, with little to no evidence pointing directly at them. They'll probably go about the proper legal proceedings to acquire the rights to the building, and seeing as how it is within the city walls they'll probably face fines, taxes and maybe charges for what they did. They're not getting off easy, nor will they be squatting. Thanks for the input though, I like the yearly taxes bit, and having a writ of ownership.
ChaoticGood 12-06-05, 07:58 PM	The town council doesn't like them, so it's ok to break into their house and kill them? Wow, talk about your Chaotic societies! :P But hey, it's your game, man. As long as the players are having fun... hands off!
JakWote 12-07-05, 05:49 AM	I'm not saying there won't be reprocussions for them, but I doubt they'll be put to death.
wrecan 12-07-05, 09:26 AM	I'm surprised they'd be allowed to keep the building. They are squatters and they did murder the inhabitants (maybe with justification).
Derren S. 12-07-05, 09:33 AM	No way the Pcs should get the building. They are after all murderers and unless the council is all chaotic it doesn't matter if council disliked the former owners. And even when the PCs can prove that they really were thieves, that doesn't give them the right to execute them especially as theft is probably not punished by death.
yellowdingo 12-07-05, 09:39 AM	Depends on the property. Sooner or later Bailiffs will probably show up to collect rent. After word gets around that your band of thugs have moved into the burbs, your little crack house can look forward to a raid by the city Watch, Life for murder if they dont hang for it. What ever else the legitimate government can pin on them. I suggest you knock up some wanted posters. Circulate their descriptions. Make them known before they arrive. "Arlo of Deepwell." Franco accosted the well described young man in the street. "Have we met?" "Your reputation preceeds you!" "Is that Good?" Arlo of Deepwell smiled like he had won the kings lottery. "Not realy!" Franco of the City Watch waved for the other Guards. Arlo stopped smiling.
wrecan 12-07-05, 10:46 AM	I imagine the modern analog as follows: Wealthy businessman finds out that his wife's wedding ring has been stolen. The cops either don't care, or are too busy to investigate the theft properly, so the councilman hires some bounty hunters to recover the ring. The bounty hunters investigate and track the thief to a crack house, which has become the blight of the neightborhood. The lawful owner of the property is a slumlord that the city council has been trying unsuccessfully to evict for years. He also lives in the building and operates a small crime ring. The bounty hunters break into the building, find the thief and then kill him in self-defense. The slumlord orders the bounty hunters killed. They blast their way towards the street and... ...then decide to turn around, kill all the residents of the crack house and take their loot. Once they cleared the crack house out, they decide to convert the building into a Jack-in-the-Box and make money as a fast food franchisee. Now, up until the ellipses ("...") the bounty hunters were probably in their legal rights. Everything after the "..." ellipses is criminal. Do you really think the town council is going to think "Boy, we really hated that slumlord. Let's reward his murderers by giving them the deed to the building without paying for it." No way! Maybe(!) the town council will look the other way as to the crackhead murders (although I have to imagine all those dead victims had family members who aren't too happy with the bounty hunters' trigger-happy vigilantism), but to let these guys set up shop?! No. It's one thing if this happened in no-man's land. But this happened in a town, where there is nominally some law and order. What's to stop some other band of evil brigands from driving the PCs out and taking over?
jasper 12-07-05, 11:39 AM	i could do a real year of possiblities mentioned here and with a warehouse They are consider heroes for wiping out the thieves den. Key to city to party leader and a party. There one night of gaming there. Upkeep on the building if the town council votes to let the party keep it and allow them to pay back taxes on it. Hmm maybe old man Jasper wants the warehouse for a Jack in the Box. Can the party out bribe the council or old mad Jasper. Real owner ghost who was killed by thieves shows up is not happy with situation or even the newer nicer tenants What is under the warehouse since it was the local thevies den? Was the local thieves den the local union house of kingdom thieves den. Does the regional mob boss take notice of what happen? Or is he just interested in the contents of black falcon statue. How do the other local owners like the new owners. Etc If the players want to keep the building I would switch off adventures. One at home base, one standard outside town. Talk with your players and see what they want. IMC some players own an inn, one and half castles (both being haunted by vampire who was their former companion), one keep and lord of hommlet, one mansion and ship and is being thought of as mayor of Salt marsh, One group has shop and a member is running for town council..
meshon 12-07-05, 11:53 AM	If the society is generally chaotic (as seems to be the case) then some gather information and diplomacy will probably get the PCs an audience with the person they need to bribe to make this problem disappear. Of course that bribe will probably be a monthly thing... I think characters owning property is fantastic for everyone. The players tend to take ownership of the game world and get involved in it. Just make sure it doesn't turn into Taxes & Tenents. There's not a lot of replay value in that one. cheers!
Auburn 12-07-05, 12:05 PM	Who's to say the deed to the property isn't in the building waiting to be found by the party? Plus as the original poster said the people who did own the place didn't have any friends in the rest of the city. Who's going to know what happened to the original owners? Moreover who's going to care?
Derren S. 12-07-05, 12:10 PM	Plus as the original poster said the people who did own the place didn't have any friends in the rest of the city. Who's going to know what happened to the original owners? Moreover who's going to care? The owners were known to the city council which was apparently interested in them so they will notice it when they are found dead and unless they are very chaotic they can't ignore it.
Auburn 12-07-05, 12:15 PM	The owners were known to the city council which was apparently interested in them so they will notice it when they are found dead and unless they are very chaotic they can't ignore it. If the party moves in and cleans up who's going to find the bodies? Without bodies they can just say the old owners moved out, and given that the authorities were already out to get the old owners to begin with why really hassle the people who took care of their problem. Even if they know the PCs murdered the old owners I don't see any reason why the powers that be just won't take them aside and say, "Good job guys. Leave the law abiding people here alone, and we'll leave you alone about this little incident." It's not like the old owners have people favorably dispositioned towards them in town who are going to cause a fuss when this is swept uunder the rug.
wrecan 12-07-05, 12:20 PM	The owners were known to the city council which was apparently interested in them so they will notice it when they are found dead and unless they are very chaotic they can't ignore it. Right. Even if they are chaotic, why wouldn't they turn it to their advantage. Even if I hated the prior owner, the building has a value. To the city council. Allowing the town heroes to get the building as a windfall isn't being Chaotic. It's being idiotic. The PCs should have to pay the value of the building (and maybe they can afford that -- it's in a bad section fo town, so it may not be that expensive). But the right of conquest doesn't apply to municipal buildings! And to the prior poster, finding a deed doesn't entitle you to the building. The deed merely identifies the registered owner. Now, the party could forge a new deed showing the prior owner passed it to them before they killed him. I think that would be fairly unbelievable, but accompanied by a few well-placed bribes, it might be cheaper than buying the building outright. The point is: real estate ain't like other treasure. It's not finders keepers.
Jesper 12-07-05, 12:37 PM	The partys level might also be a factor here too. Would the local lord who has an army of 50 level 1 fighters 3 ltn 3 level fighters 1 town wizard level 3 and 1 champion level 9 bar go about trying to evict a group of level 18 claric wiz fighter and thife? the town is not dumb if it looks like they can't win they won't try
Ogmug 12-07-05, 12:38 PM	It all depends on the campaign and how YOU want to run it. It is all good and dandy for everyone here to state "it doesn't happen like that" but unless you have set down laws for that particular area, it is entirely upto you how you want to handle it. In some campaigns, might makes right. You have the power to control it? then it is yours. In some campaigns, finders keepers. In still others, all property belongs to the king and you just "rent" it in the form of taxes. Basically, it is upto you to decide what happens. If you are looking for suggestions then: 1. Does the building actually belong to the city? 2. Is the building in the city? 3. how does the council view buildings within the city? Are unclaimed properties concidered to be owned by the council? 4. How does the council view vigilanteism (sp)? 5. Is the council greedy? 6. Was the building actually "stolen" form other owners? or the Council? 7. How grateful is the council that you routed the theives? All of the above could be taken into account when determing how to deal with this. If the building is in town, the council views that everything in city limits is council property and you pay for the right to live here with taxes, and they are greedy they might demand payment for the value of the building, and allow the players to use it as a base of operations, with the appropriate tax. If they are a benevolent council, they might reward them with the building, but require taxes still, and maybe improvements to increase the value of the area, etc.