Charecter Creation Varient [Archive] - Wizards Community

Charecter Creation Varient [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bartleby42
10-25-05, 11:27 AM Hi,

I'm a fairly rusty DM, and my last campain had a couple problems. Mainly the fact that the charecters would all but refuse to role play, and if one charecter was combat effective, copy said charecter. And after my campain ended in the next campain, there were two charecters with the feral and the Mineral warrior template. I was the only charecter that had any modicum of role play facilty beyond "No Grok hit head again!".

So when I came up to DM again, after an enjoyable but tedious Hack and Slash module DM run, I thought I'd do something different with charecter creation. If I could get imput as to wheter I'm being too harsh or not that would be great.

Starting Lvl- d3 (not everyone is the exact same, and after a few sessions the power difference will balence)

Stats- Your choice, 22 point buy only using the PHB, or you come up with a charecter idea and background and let me ask you some questions, and I make your charecter for you.

The questions are basics about the charecter and a couple to get the player thinking.
Ex. Tell me about your faimly? How did your parents meet?

With the goal of getting the players to think of the charecter as a real person. I use a 26 point buy base with bonuses for coming up with a well rounded charecter and thinking like them in the questions and senarios presented, and penaties for mentioning things that are soely game mechanics.
Ex. I'm a half ogre who power attacks a lot. -4 points.
People don't want to get in fights with me, not because I always win, but because when I hit-- Oh boy does it hurt! +2 points

If they didn't specify a race or class I come up with a few suggestions, let them pick and then assign abilities.

This is a little tricky. Every time during the "interview" the player mentions something pretaining to an attribute it gets a +1 or a -1 depending on what they say. (with in reason, saying I'm strong 20 times doesn't get +20)
Ex. I got real sick once when I was 5, but since then I haven't had so much as a cold. (+1 to con)
I'm rash, I don't really care what the consquences are if it sounds like a good idea at the time, I'm doing it right away. (-1 to wis)

You adjust the +'s and -'s so its all positive i.e. (-1, 0, 3) goes to (0, 1, 4) call these the attibute weight, and add them together, call this number the total weight.
take the Point total from the interview (26 + background points) and divide it by total wieght. and then multiply this number by each attribute wieght and that's the number of points spent on said attribute. Spend the remanders with the player.

I've done two this way so far and heres what I have gotten.

A Neandrethal Totemist
point buy 26 + 5 = 31

weight stat total stat
Str 4 15 17
Dex 2 12 12
Con 4 16 18
Int 0 9 7
Wis 3 14 14
Cha 1 10 8

and

A Gnomish Abjuerer (DL Gnome)
point by 26 + 15 = 41

weight stat total stat
Str 0 8 6
Dex 1 14 14
Con 1 10 10
Int 7 18 20
Wis 4 14 12
Cha 4 16 16

Both charecters have one "tragic flaw" and a pretty good stats elsewhere.

Thoughts?
High Octane
10-25-05, 11:42 AM ..... and I make your charecter for you.

A DM should never say this. Ever.
olshanski_home
10-25-05, 12:02 PM Starting Lvl- d3Annoying. If I roll a 1 and others roll a 3, I don't want to wait 2 months to catch up to the other players, for no reason other than a single die roll.

Stats- Your choice, 22 point buy only using the PHB, or you come up with a charecter idea and background and let me ask you some questions, and I make your charecter for you.So, if players make thier own character, they are screwed with a 22 point buy, but if they let you make the decisions, you get to spend at least 26 point buy plus options based on "well rounded"? You need to separate yourself from the players. Your responsibility is to stat the monsters and NPCs and to create an interesting world. The players responsibility is to stat, develop, and play thier own characters.

Lets look at what you've got from your examples:

Player creates his own character, 22 point buy.
This would result in stats like 15,13,12,11,10,8

OR, letting you have control, you've got stats like:
18, 17, 14, 12, 8, 7
20, 16, 14, 12, 10, 6

There is absolutely no way I'd play in this sort of game.
Mirikon
10-25-05, 12:35 PM I would never play under such a system. The DM makes the world, the adventures, and the NPCs. The player makes the PCs. If I wanted someone else to make the character for me, I would go play video games.
Argon_Asimov
10-25-05, 01:02 PM I can understand why you're doing this, but it seems a bit overbearing.

Players speak one language, and that is "power". The most important component of that is character level. This is why players never forget to ask about exp, why they try to find any way to start at a higher level, why they will consistantly risk thier (character's) lives going off to kill god-only-knows what horrible monstrosity that lurks in the dark, ancient, terrible forest X.

Players crave exp and levels. They need it. To base starting level on a single die roll is like a punch in the gut.

What you've done with the stats is interesting... if I understand correctly, you are essentially offering 4 extra stat-buy points if they have an interesting background or character concept. At face value, that dosn't sem over-powering and is a good way to indoctrine these munchins into roleplaying.

However, the way you alter thier stats based on the history they provide seems a little too controlling. If my character has an old injury that never healed over properly, I might buy him only 9 con, knowing that I could later raise it to 10 as he got more experienced and tougher. Under your system, that might be brought down to 6 or 7, making it a debilitating weakness, rather than a serious, but not insurmountable flaw. Again, this could make the players feel weak, and gives them a more limited control over thier characters.

IMC, I have a character creation system that allows players to select from gaining extra feats, skills, attribute increases (very limited), and other non-mechanical advantages, such as being well-known, or having a home or place of business.

By default, they have a very limited selection, but they gain more options if they have an interesting character concept, a written background, or if they take thier chances and roll an "organic" character (4d6, roll down the line).

If you're interested, I may be able to link or post those rules here, although they are a bit lengthy.
bartleby42
10-25-05, 02:21 PM Argon: Please post them or e-mail them to me (bartleby42@msn.com)

The goal is not to controll every aspect of the charecter, but to force players to playable charecters that are of a concept beyond "Ub3r L33t" mage/fighter ect...

I did a quick foray into it with some of the charecters, I got one whom seemed to think it was way to different and another who loved the concept. I'll probally trash the idea based on the response, but any thing else that will reward carecter concepts would be nice.
weasel fierce
10-25-05, 02:31 PM A DM should never say this. Ever.

Why ?
Its an option, not a requirement. D20 is about options, right ?
Cantankerous
10-25-05, 02:33 PM Bartleby, anytime you try to "force" Players to anything, you've already lost. If you're not building this in concert with the Players it will likely end up being a disaster no matter how many new, arbitrary rules and restrictions you add.

The best way to reward character conceptualization is to be voluable about it. You don't need to add in extra power, just let the Players know how much this is appreciated by using their ideas and input and expanding on them.

Isshia
Conshey
10-25-05, 02:40 PM if you are familiar with the flaws and trait system out of the Unearthed Arcana, then you are trying to do exactly that. Instead of adjusting there scores, give them traits and flaws and then suggest feats that the flaws give them that pertain to there background, but under no sercumstance is any DM allowed to say im making you do this. Flaws and Traits are inherent or developed during Childhood which would allow the DM to pick these, but the players should have at least some control over what direction the character is going, it's there Character, let them play it.

I totally agree with you on the back story though, but what i do is i, depending on there alignment and class selection, tell them where they grow up in my world and what there childhood was like. They choose there own flaws and traits (if they choose not to have any, thats a choice), and i tell them why they have it. I find that this churns the creativity a little more in the head and they are more satisfied with the Character. After i do that i can them very easily develope side quests for the PC's and talk to the one PC that would know about it outside of the session, fill them in on details and then when i metion it a few game sessions later, they know whats going on. The DM needs to be incontrol, but still needs to allow the players to choose there own path.

Conshey
Kaligrad
10-25-05, 03:00 PM From the sound of things, it sounds like what you really need to do is clamp down control on your own world. To that end, you should insist on your players sticking with core classes and core races, no templates, at least until 5th level. I'm not saying that core rules can't be broken, of course, but that broken core is less dangerous than broken most anything else.

Oh, and you should give your players prior warning before insisting on roleplaying. From the sound of things, you've been a hack 'n slash DM to go right along with your powergaming players. If you ask them nicely, you might be surprised at how many of your players would enjoy a good roleplaying experience without any goading.

Finally, willing or not, have your players answer a few basic questions about his or her character.

1. Where are you from? (must be specific. DM should help by pointing out where certain races can be from in his campaign world.)
2. Why are you what class you are? (How were you raised? What does your class say about who you are? What do your parents/friends think about your class?)
3. Why are you where you are? (What happened after you left home? What decisions did the character make to get to the region he in which he is currently located?)

If you ask them to answer just these basic questions, then you are asking them to think in character about their backstory, which is the first step to roleplaying in game. If the answers seem light, or cheesy, or cliched, just tell them to do it over, and that the campaign cannot begin until everyone has answered those three questions to your satisfaction.

Oh, and one final note: hand out the bonus roleplaying xp described in the DMG. Nothing gets a player moving like xp bonuses. Please just leave their characters alone, though. It's all they've got.
Slumber Hulk
10-25-05, 03:17 PM This seems a little too controlling. Particularly the d3 for a level. The player who rolls a one checks out immeadiately and the player who rolls a 3 expects specials catering.

And I would only create a character for a complete newbie but I would do it with them. Walking them through the process.

Also the comparison of (Power attacking ogre) vs. ("ooh guy who hits hard") seems arbitrary. You'll have a chance to be arbitrary later in the game, you don't have to start in character creation. Pace youself. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bartleby42 10-25-05, 11:27 AM	Hi, I'm a fairly rusty DM, and my last campain had a couple problems. Mainly the fact that the charecters would all but refuse to role play, and if one charecter was combat effective, copy said charecter. And after my campain ended in the next campain, there were two charecters with the feral and the Mineral warrior template. I was the only charecter that had any modicum of role play facilty beyond "No Grok hit head again!". So when I came up to DM again, after an enjoyable but tedious Hack and Slash module DM run, I thought I'd do something different with charecter creation. If I could get imput as to wheter I'm being too harsh or not that would be great. Starting Lvl- d3 (not everyone is the exact same, and after a few sessions the power difference will balence) Stats- Your choice, 22 point buy only using the PHB, or you come up with a charecter idea and background and let me ask you some questions, and I make your charecter for you. The questions are basics about the charecter and a couple to get the player thinking. Ex. Tell me about your faimly? How did your parents meet? With the goal of getting the players to think of the charecter as a real person. I use a 26 point buy base with bonuses for coming up with a well rounded charecter and thinking like them in the questions and senarios presented, and penaties for mentioning things that are soely game mechanics. Ex. I'm a half ogre who power attacks a lot. -4 points. People don't want to get in fights with me, not because I always win, but because when I hit-- Oh boy does it hurt! +2 points If they didn't specify a race or class I come up with a few suggestions, let them pick and then assign abilities. This is a little tricky. Every time during the "interview" the player mentions something pretaining to an attribute it gets a +1 or a -1 depending on what they say. (with in reason, saying I'm strong 20 times doesn't get +20) Ex. I got real sick once when I was 5, but since then I haven't had so much as a cold. (+1 to con) I'm rash, I don't really care what the consquences are if it sounds like a good idea at the time, I'm doing it right away. (-1 to wis) You adjust the +'s and -'s so its all positive i.e. (-1, 0, 3) goes to (0, 1, 4) call these the attibute weight, and add them together, call this number the total weight. take the Point total from the interview (26 + background points) and divide it by total wieght. and then multiply this number by each attribute wieght and that's the number of points spent on said attribute. Spend the remanders with the player. I've done two this way so far and heres what I have gotten. A Neandrethal Totemist point buy 26 + 5 = 31 weight stat total stat Str 4 15 17 Dex 2 12 12 Con 4 16 18 Int 0 9 7 Wis 3 14 14 Cha 1 10 8 and A Gnomish Abjuerer (DL Gnome) point by 26 + 15 = 41 weight stat total stat Str 0 8 6 Dex 1 14 14 Con 1 10 10 Int 7 18 20 Wis 4 14 12 Cha 4 16 16 Both charecters have one "tragic flaw" and a pretty good stats elsewhere. Thoughts?
High Octane 10-25-05, 11:42 AM	..... and I make your charecter for you. A DM should never say this. Ever.
olshanski_home 10-25-05, 12:02 PM	Starting Lvl- d3Annoying. If I roll a 1 and others roll a 3, I don't want to wait 2 months to catch up to the other players, for no reason other than a single die roll. Stats- Your choice, 22 point buy only using the PHB, or you come up with a charecter idea and background and let me ask you some questions, and I make your charecter for you.So, if players make thier own character, they are screwed with a 22 point buy, but if they let you make the decisions, you get to spend at least 26 point buy plus options based on "well rounded"? You need to separate yourself from the players. Your responsibility is to stat the monsters and NPCs and to create an interesting world. The players responsibility is to stat, develop, and play thier own characters. Lets look at what you've got from your examples: Player creates his own character, 22 point buy. This would result in stats like 15,13,12,11,10,8 OR, letting you have control, you've got stats like: 18, 17, 14, 12, 8, 7 20, 16, 14, 12, 10, 6 There is absolutely no way I'd play in this sort of game.
Mirikon 10-25-05, 12:35 PM	I would never play under such a system. The DM makes the world, the adventures, and the NPCs. The player makes the PCs. If I wanted someone else to make the character for me, I would go play video games.
Argon_Asimov 10-25-05, 01:02 PM	I can understand why you're doing this, but it seems a bit overbearing. Players speak one language, and that is "power". The most important component of that is character level. This is why players never forget to ask about exp, why they try to find any way to start at a higher level, why they will consistantly risk thier (character's) lives going off to kill god-only-knows what horrible monstrosity that lurks in the dark, ancient, terrible forest X. Players crave exp and levels. They need it. To base starting level on a single die roll is like a punch in the gut. What you've done with the stats is interesting... if I understand correctly, you are essentially offering 4 extra stat-buy points if they have an interesting background or character concept. At face value, that dosn't sem over-powering and is a good way to indoctrine these munchins into roleplaying. However, the way you alter thier stats based on the history they provide seems a little too controlling. If my character has an old injury that never healed over properly, I might buy him only 9 con, knowing that I could later raise it to 10 as he got more experienced and tougher. Under your system, that might be brought down to 6 or 7, making it a debilitating weakness, rather than a serious, but not insurmountable flaw. Again, this could make the players feel weak, and gives them a more limited control over thier characters. IMC, I have a character creation system that allows players to select from gaining extra feats, skills, attribute increases (very limited), and other non-mechanical advantages, such as being well-known, or having a home or place of business. By default, they have a very limited selection, but they gain more options if they have an interesting character concept, a written background, or if they take thier chances and roll an "organic" character (4d6, roll down the line). If you're interested, I may be able to link or post those rules here, although they are a bit lengthy.
bartleby42 10-25-05, 02:21 PM	Argon: Please post them or e-mail them to me (bartleby42@msn.com) The goal is not to controll every aspect of the charecter, but to force players to playable charecters that are of a concept beyond "Ub3r L33t" mage/fighter ect... I did a quick foray into it with some of the charecters, I got one whom seemed to think it was way to different and another who loved the concept. I'll probally trash the idea based on the response, but any thing else that will reward carecter concepts would be nice.
weasel fierce 10-25-05, 02:31 PM	A DM should never say this. Ever. Why ? Its an option, not a requirement. D20 is about options, right ?
Cantankerous 10-25-05, 02:33 PM	Bartleby, anytime you try to "force" Players to anything, you've already lost. If you're not building this in concert with the Players it will likely end up being a disaster no matter how many new, arbitrary rules and restrictions you add. The best way to reward character conceptualization is to be voluable about it. You don't need to add in extra power, just let the Players know how much this is appreciated by using their ideas and input and expanding on them. Isshia
Conshey 10-25-05, 02:40 PM	if you are familiar with the flaws and trait system out of the Unearthed Arcana, then you are trying to do exactly that. Instead of adjusting there scores, give them traits and flaws and then suggest feats that the flaws give them that pertain to there background, but under no sercumstance is any DM allowed to say im making you do this. Flaws and Traits are inherent or developed during Childhood which would allow the DM to pick these, but the players should have at least some control over what direction the character is going, it's there Character, let them play it. I totally agree with you on the back story though, but what i do is i, depending on there alignment and class selection, tell them where they grow up in my world and what there childhood was like. They choose there own flaws and traits (if they choose not to have any, thats a choice), and i tell them why they have it. I find that this churns the creativity a little more in the head and they are more satisfied with the Character. After i do that i can them very easily develope side quests for the PC's and talk to the one PC that would know about it outside of the session, fill them in on details and then when i metion it a few game sessions later, they know whats going on. The DM needs to be incontrol, but still needs to allow the players to choose there own path. Conshey
Kaligrad 10-25-05, 03:00 PM	From the sound of things, it sounds like what you really need to do is clamp down control on your own world. To that end, you should insist on your players sticking with core classes and core races, no templates, at least until 5th level. I'm not saying that core rules can't be broken, of course, but that broken core is less dangerous than broken most anything else. Oh, and you should give your players prior warning before insisting on roleplaying. From the sound of things, you've been a hack 'n slash DM to go right along with your powergaming players. If you ask them nicely, you might be surprised at how many of your players would enjoy a good roleplaying experience without any goading. Finally, willing or not, have your players answer a few basic questions about his or her character. 1. Where are you from? (must be specific. DM should help by pointing out where certain races can be from in his campaign world.) 2. Why are you what class you are? (How were you raised? What does your class say about who you are? What do your parents/friends think about your class?) 3. Why are you where you are? (What happened after you left home? What decisions did the character make to get to the region he in which he is currently located?) If you ask them to answer just these basic questions, then you are asking them to think in character about their backstory, which is the first step to roleplaying in game. If the answers seem light, or cheesy, or cliched, just tell them to do it over, and that the campaign cannot begin until everyone has answered those three questions to your satisfaction. Oh, and one final note: hand out the bonus roleplaying xp described in the DMG. Nothing gets a player moving like xp bonuses. Please just leave their characters alone, though. It's all they've got.
Slumber Hulk 10-25-05, 03:17 PM	This seems a little too controlling. Particularly the d3 for a level. The player who rolls a one checks out immeadiately and the player who rolls a 3 expects specials catering. And I would only create a character for a complete newbie but I would do it with them. Walking them through the process. Also the comparison of (Power attacking ogre) vs. ("ooh guy who hits hard") seems arbitrary. You'll have a chance to be arbitrary later in the game, you don't have to start in character creation. Pace youself. ;)