Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mike1977 09-03-03, 08:28 AM	When a staff/wand runs out of charges, is there a way to put more chages on it? Or does the item become useless...
Chobemaster 09-03-03, 08:46 AM	There are no rules for recharging. However, there is also nothing that says you can't use the staff/wand again for reenchanting normally...so if you had a staff+2 of the woodlands, it would still be a staff +2 when the charges run out, and you could re-woodlands it. There's no price break for this in the rules. I would allow a small discount, since you don't need to make/buy a new wand. Like 10% off GP cost at most, same XP cost.
Mike1977 09-03-03, 08:52 AM	Would allowing charges to (recharge) on a daily basis be too powerfull? Say 1 charge a day?
Salla 09-03-03, 09:21 AM	That would be a pretty powerful item, with a commensurately high market value. Consider that there would be NO real reason to conserve charges or only use it in emergencies given that, with enough time, it will regenerate; I'd price it as an unlimited-charge item, perhaps with a 10 percent discount since it can be wound down, though not emptied completely.
Wayward Son 09-03-03, 10:57 AM	*nods* That would be very powerful. The pricing system for magic items is geared around the limited-use nature of these items, so extending their usefulness should increase the price and, thus, the time and cost to create them. The only staff I know that can be recharged directly is the Staff of the Magi, which is, itself, a minor artifact. As another pointed out, you can re-enchant the item after the charges are expended, and I even extend that to allowing a "recharge" of sorts, by allowing a caster with the prerequisites to make the item in question "make" the item as if it had the number of charges you're replacing. In the long run, it's no net change in price from making a new item when the first runs out, and the creation time is shorter, which keeps the story rolling along. P.S.--For your example, the Staff of the Woodlands does remain a +2 quarterstaff after the charges are expended, but it also allows the weilder to Pass Without Trace at will with no charge cost, and that continues to function after charges have been expended. (Bonus!) Each staff is different about what it can still do after the charges are gone, though. Most just become mundane quarterstaves.
tarkin 09-03-03, 11:24 AM	There are official WoTC Rules for Recharging Magic Items But you will not like them. It takes artifact level magic. Besides the self-recharging artifacts (Staff of the Great Druid, Staff of the Archmage) there exists a Forgotten Realms minor artifact called "Dwarven Glow Stones". While they have some minor additional powers, there main use is to have 1-100 charges in them, which can be transferred to a magic item such as a Wand or Staff. Each charge can also be used to provide a single extra use of an x/day item that has already been used x times that day. Considering that WoTC has only granted this ability to Artifacts, it would be a bad idea in my opinion, to provide any means of recharging a magic item for LESS than the per use cost of making one. Basically, as this is supposed to be an Artifact level ability, letting them do it without an artifact is already pushing it. Granting a price Discount, even 10% is pure munchkinism.
Roxlimn 09-03-03, 11:52 AM	Actually, I don't know that even artifact level magic can recharge a magic wand or staff that's already run out of charges. AFAIK, the item becomes a mundane stick or staff of masterwork quality. You can always enchant it again I suppose. You can probably use charges within the item as part of the prerequisites for re-enchanting another item of similar make, and that might be considered a form of recharging. For form and simplicity (not having to have another wand or staff), you can simply rule that given the requisite charges, you can "recharge" the thing at cost. For example, a wand of daylight costs 4500 gp or 2250 gp to enchant. Given a spellcaster with the Craft Wand feat (and who can use the wand), he can "recharge" the wand back up to 50 charges provided he spends 2250 gp and 180 XP. It's not core rules, but it does make sense, and for some players, the sense of "recharging" is thematically important.
Chobemaster 09-03-03, 01:28 PM	Originally posted by tarkin Considering that WoTC has only granted this ability to Artifacts, it would be a bad idea in my opinion, to provide any means of recharging a magic item for LESS than the per use cost of making one. Basically, as this is supposed to be an Artifact level ability, letting them do it without an artifact is already pushing it. Granting a price Discount, even 10% is pure munchkinism. Easy, there. I don't think the game balance is going to collapse if I charge 2,025 gp instead of 2,250 to recharge a wand of daylight. This is a lot different than "free" recharges via the glowstones. By the time you're making wands of daylight, 225 gp is a fairly token amount. And it makes sense, too. How can it cost just as much to make a wand from scratch, starting with no wand, as it does to put the exact same spells into an existing wand (even if it is "mundane" and just a stick?)
Willie the Duck 09-03-03, 01:52 PM	from what I have read, the complete warrior or whatever it's called is going to have item recharge rules.
tarkin 09-03-03, 03:41 PM	The problem is not paying to making wands of Daylight. The problem is when you make a wand of Stoneskin. It has a substantial gp cost in addition to the regular costs. Even if you did not reduce that cost, just the base cost, by 10% the question is WHY? And it does NOT make sense. the wand part is FREE. The wood costs nothing. the reason it costs that much cash is the cost to enchant it. Basically the pricing system works as follows: Potions (anyone items) price for a single use item = 50 gp base (*spell level * caster level) Scrolls (caster only items ) price for a single use item = 25 gp base(*level*level) Wands/staffs (spell trigger) price per single use = 15 gp base *(*level*level) So it is not a 10% reduction. It is a 10% reduction on something that already has a 70% reduction off the real full price. 70% reduced prices is more than enough. You want to reduce the price even further give something up. ANYTHING up. but give something up. Don't just say "well, I want it cheaper and I am only asking for a recharge." At least say, OK, you want to recharge a wand, you can do so for a 10% cost reduction, if you take this feat. Or maybe, OK, you want a rechargeable wand, fine. It costs 10% more to make it rechargable, but from then on you get a 10% reduction in price when you recharge it. Fully recharge it once and you have a profit.
Chobemaster 09-03-03, 04:06 PM	Tarkin, I'm still not sure why you're as excited about this issue as it appears. For items with extra costs associated with material components, I wouldn't apply the discount...if I need 50 diamonds for stoneskin, that's not part of the wand (or maybe the wand is encrusted with the 50 diamonds, and the crumble as the wand is used) so of course they'd need to be purchased again. I'm also not sure how you can assert that all wands are made of free wood. That's not true IMC, nor in the DMG description of wands: "A typical wand is 6 inches to 12 inches long and about 1/4 inch thick, and often weighs no more than 1 ounce. Most wands are wood, but some are bone. A rare few are metal, glass, or even ceramic, but these are quite exotic. Occasionally, a wand has a gem or some device at its tip, and most are decorated with carvings or runes" To some degree, it comes back to my old complaint of "what are you spending the money on" when you make items...one valid interpretation is that the gold just vanishes as you make the item. A dumb interpretation, IMHO, but not contradicted in the rules AFAIK. I'm not sure why you think its worth of another feat to allow a wizard to save a couple hundred gp's. And they're only able to do it in limited situations, i.e. when they already have a wand of the same type. Do you find that so egregious? I can't understand why. The fact that wands are a "cheap" way to deliver the spell isn't proof of anything...there are other aspects of value to potions and scrolls that explain the increase in price.
Wayward Son 09-03-03, 04:59 PM	(Wow, tarkin and I agree. Will wonders never cease? :D Just j/k'in, tarkin). It's important to remember the the core rules don't mention recharging, IIRC. Forgotten Realms is nice, and all, but it isn't part of the core rules, so the Glowstones will likely remain in that particular corner of the multiverse of D&D. As such, I'm not sure it can really be applied upward from a campaign setting (a particularly high-magic setting, at that) to the core system. As I mentioned, though, I do agree that the person should pay the full construction cost for the number of charges being replaced. It would be like adding a new power to an existing magic item, except you are bringing the existing power back to full strength instead. The cost would be the difference between the cost of the item as is (decreased from the base cost due to expended charges) and the base cost of the "full" item. But that's just my take on it.
the_heart 09-04-03, 11:30 AM	Wow! some of you guys can be a bit strict... i allow a partial recharge if someone has the appropriate Craft X feat. wand of cure light wounds (750gp/ 50) 35gp to pay for a recharge or the equivalent if you craft yourself ( too lazy to work it out). to me that is a logical extrapolation from the base item creation rules. in the case of charges subtract the cost of permanent abilities first... as to the renew a charge/ day...i have thought about this and can't see a reasonable way to do it pre-epic (and boy have i tried for my wiz PC) the closest i can suggest is add a ' 3/ Day ' power ontop of the charges which almost equates to the same thing.