Charging in combat. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Charging in combat. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
subotaixxl
06-30-04, 08:53 PM I think the way charges are handled are not realistic. All the charger gets is one attack at +2 while the defender gets a full attack in response. Consider this...

The attacker must move at least 10 feet to charge. For every 10' moved before the charge, the attacker gets +1 to hit but no more than +3. On a sucessful hit, the attacker adds both STR and CON bonus to damage. The defender must also make a Fortitude save or be knocked 10' back and be staggered on the next round. Save DC is 10+attackers STR and CON modifiers. If the defender makes save or the attacker misses, they deal double damage on next first attack.

We have been playing with this and it seems to work.

I am looking for tweaks or constructive criticism, not "thats stupid" lazy minded responses. THX!
Drachenflagrion
06-30-04, 09:22 PM yeah that sounds good.....
Fixxxer
06-30-04, 09:51 PM Just out of curiosity, this isn't the first time you've asked about this, is it? I seem to recall.....hmm...that may or may not have been you. It's not important, I suppose.

Personally, I would remove the part about adding in CON damage. There's no real justification for it, as far as I can see. "I'm healthy as a horse, so you take more damage when I charge you" is about what it comes out to. You might just give a further .5 multiplier to the existing STR damage (so instead of adding 2 to damage from STR, you would add 3, for instance).

Also, you really ought to increase the penalties proportionally to the bonuses. Using your existing rule, I would say that for every +1 to the attack roll that the attacker gets due to speed and distance, I would decrease his AC by 1 as well. The justification...you're moving fast enough to put more force behind your attack, but you're also moving too fast to avoid incomming attacks you could normally dodge away from.

That having been said, I think the charge rules are fine as written. In my mind, charging is less for "normal" attacks and is best used for Bull Rush, Overun and (flying) Grapple attacks.
subotaixxl
06-30-04, 10:07 PM I have never posted about this, but that is okay.

The reason I added in the con score seems natural to me. If you ever played football and have gotten hit by a lean strong player, it hurts alot more than getting hit by a big fat guy. Compare Warren Sapp to William Perry. In thier prime, the same strength but Sapp was much leaner than Perry. A healthier person will hit with more velocity. I can also use myself as an example. I gained alot of weight when my wife was pregnant, which I have lost. My strength didnt change, I have always been very strong. I can now move faster and would hit harder in a charge. I play football occasionally and people have commented I am hitting much harder now.

I can agree to an AC penalty for each +1 to hit.

Other than that, any other advice??
Autosponge
06-30-04, 10:53 PM What you're proposing is already part of a few feats or other action combinations. Charging is powerful as a means of closing quarters, not as an attack. Don't forget there are classes that live by the charge like Cavalier. If you give them even more abilities from the charge you're going to un-balance your combats.

If you don't have it, get miniatures HB and complete warrior, they have some charge feats and styles you should look at.
Stuntman
07-01-04, 12:28 AM I think there is a feat (perhaps epic or is it in CW?) that allows you to do a full attack after a charge. This makes it more worth while to charge against characters with multiple attacks.

Anyway, I do see your point about the -2 to AC when your opponent then gets a full attack back. I've often thought about this myself. However, when you go first, your opponent may be flat-footed. If you can charge and attack, you may get a better attack bonus anyway because your opponent is flat footed. Then for the counter attack against you still get your Dex bonus to AC.
PenderGrass
07-01-04, 05:23 PM I think the way charges are handled are not realistic.

That is because D&D is not realistic - but you already knew that, didn't you?

The reason I added in the con score seems natural to me. If you ever played football and have gotten hit by a lean strong player, it hurts alot more than getting hit by a big fat guy.

This, and other statements you have made, leads me to think that you are confusing the Bullrush Attack with a Charge Attack.

Personally, I agree with Fixxxer in having it more balanced if you insist on modifying it - other than that, I would suggest that you leave well-enough alone and stay with it, as is, out of the PHB.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
subotaixxl 06-30-04, 08:53 PM	I think the way charges are handled are not realistic. All the charger gets is one attack at +2 while the defender gets a full attack in response. Consider this... The attacker must move at least 10 feet to charge. For every 10' moved before the charge, the attacker gets +1 to hit but no more than +3. On a sucessful hit, the attacker adds both STR and CON bonus to damage. The defender must also make a Fortitude save or be knocked 10' back and be staggered on the next round. Save DC is 10+attackers STR and CON modifiers. If the defender makes save or the attacker misses, they deal double damage on next first attack. We have been playing with this and it seems to work. I am looking for tweaks or constructive criticism, not "thats stupid" lazy minded responses. THX!
Drachenflagrion 06-30-04, 09:22 PM	yeah that sounds good.....
Fixxxer 06-30-04, 09:51 PM	Just out of curiosity, this isn't the first time you've asked about this, is it? I seem to recall.....hmm...that may or may not have been you. It's not important, I suppose. Personally, I would remove the part about adding in CON damage. There's no real justification for it, as far as I can see. "I'm healthy as a horse, so you take more damage when I charge you" is about what it comes out to. You might just give a further .5 multiplier to the existing STR damage (so instead of adding 2 to damage from STR, you would add 3, for instance). Also, you really ought to increase the penalties proportionally to the bonuses. Using your existing rule, I would say that for every +1 to the attack roll that the attacker gets due to speed and distance, I would decrease his AC by 1 as well. The justification...you're moving fast enough to put more force behind your attack, but you're also moving too fast to avoid incomming attacks you could normally dodge away from. That having been said, I think the charge rules are fine as written. In my mind, charging is less for "normal" attacks and is best used for Bull Rush, Overun and (flying) Grapple attacks.
subotaixxl 06-30-04, 10:07 PM	I have never posted about this, but that is okay. The reason I added in the con score seems natural to me. If you ever played football and have gotten hit by a lean strong player, it hurts alot more than getting hit by a big fat guy. Compare Warren Sapp to William Perry. In thier prime, the same strength but Sapp was much leaner than Perry. A healthier person will hit with more velocity. I can also use myself as an example. I gained alot of weight when my wife was pregnant, which I have lost. My strength didnt change, I have always been very strong. I can now move faster and would hit harder in a charge. I play football occasionally and people have commented I am hitting much harder now. I can agree to an AC penalty for each +1 to hit. Other than that, any other advice??
Autosponge 06-30-04, 10:53 PM	What you're proposing is already part of a few feats or other action combinations. Charging is powerful as a means of closing quarters, not as an attack. Don't forget there are classes that live by the charge like Cavalier. If you give them even more abilities from the charge you're going to un-balance your combats. If you don't have it, get miniatures HB and complete warrior, they have some charge feats and styles you should look at.
Stuntman 07-01-04, 12:28 AM	I think there is a feat (perhaps epic or is it in CW?) that allows you to do a full attack after a charge. This makes it more worth while to charge against characters with multiple attacks. Anyway, I do see your point about the -2 to AC when your opponent then gets a full attack back. I've often thought about this myself. However, when you go first, your opponent may be flat-footed. If you can charge and attack, you may get a better attack bonus anyway because your opponent is flat footed. Then for the counter attack against you still get your Dex bonus to AC.
PenderGrass 07-01-04, 05:23 PM	I think the way charges are handled are not realistic. That is because D&D is not realistic - but you already knew that, didn't you? The reason I added in the con score seems natural to me. If you ever played football and have gotten hit by a lean strong player, it hurts alot more than getting hit by a big fat guy. This, and other statements you have made, leads me to think that you are confusing the Bullrush Attack with a Charge Attack. Personally, I agree with Fixxxer in having it more balanced if you insist on modifying it - other than that, I would suggest that you leave well-enough alone and stay with it, as is, out of the PHB.