Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vlorich San'cheh 06-20-04, 12:35 AM	Ok so my group plays during the school year so I have a summer to figure out how to survive this fiasco I got myself in... A little bckgrd. Two months ago (in game), a halfling killed the daughter of one of the main kings of the land in Town A. [For RP purposes the DM disallowed us to buy a raise dead scroll] Unfortunately, this halfling and my char had a fling in our [preplaying] history, and we have a son which she dropped off with me a few months ago. My son is in town B across the continent w/ my char's sister (Abj4). On my way there my party get attacked by Red mages. We defeated them, but mostly b/c we're ALL horribly uber-char's. My son is safely hidden in a Temple of Apollo w/ 10-20 Clr12-15 suprisingly back in TOWN A. Now my dilemna... I told the DM before the summer that I wanted to take on the Red MAge tower this fall when we start again.. so I need strategic advice on how I should Get in get out, and what failsafes I should start beforehand. Currently our group of 6 has scattered in-game and I can only expect myself and maybe 2 other PC's to join me. My Dm says that we will almost certainly die, but we've reached a point were our char's would HAVE to do this to stay in char. , I just want to suprise my Dm with our ingenuity and he might let us live. So here's what we've got... Benson(me) [Clr3/Wiz3/MyTheurge4]- feats: scroll, craft wondrous, construct, weapons/armor Tortle [Fighter7]- a +0 ECL race from a Dragon mag.-- focus on mad amounts of damage [Wiz8]- definitely a blaster mage vs. a school of Red mages probably (15 at lvl 5-7; 10 at 7-9; 5 at lvl 12-14; at least 1 at lvl 15-18) Now this might seem hopeless but we have two distinct advantages. 1) Surprise. 2) i have Craft Construct. I have a number of fine constucts built but I haven't added magic to them so I could boost their abilities. Search on the boards for 'Gossamer flyer'. They're pretty potent. I'm thinking of making them with a constant 'silence' on them to mess with the RED mages. Our advantage is that we have access to pretty much every divine and arcane spell and time to prepare, they have the boost from focusing on one or two schools. If y'all have any tips, (if you've ever taken on a tower of mages b4) any advice would be most helpful.
K.O.E.G 06-20-04, 12:43 AM	You're dead. Simple as that. Go on a Rocky-Style training regimen. A CR 10.5 Party will crumple before that sort of thing. If you can get everyone up to level 15, then you would probably have a shot
Vlorich San'cheh 06-20-04, 12:55 AM	maybe i should explain just how min-max we are me lvl10- should be ECL 12 Fgtr7- the min/maxer of the group (treat as ECL 11) (could lvl up b4 fight) Wiz8- will be 9 soon D&d is not all numbers, our group took down a lvl 10 fgtr when we were all at lvl 4 so the numbers can be decieving plus, I have unlimited money. I recently in-game created the first arcane-divine based magical contraceptic device. DONT ASK WHY!!!!!
Vlorich San'cheh 06-20-04, 12:55 AM	Double POST
Korhal IV 06-20-04, 01:58 AM	Well, play to a fortress' weaknesses. Use Fly and Invisibility to reach the top of the tower, then work your way down, or use Polymorph Other (instantaneous duration - no dispelling, no detectable magic!) to turn yourselves into the milkmen or something, and thereby gain access (with the necessary food supplies or whatever). Once you're inside, you need to start blasting. Don't ever give an enemy mage a chance to get a spell off or to flee. Use Fireballs and Scorching Rays galore - mages have crappy saves and bad HP. At all costs, find and kill the high level mages first. Trust that your DM won't be arbitrarily mean and raise the apprentices to grand masters. A truly diabolical alternative is to grab some scrolls of Stone to Mud and turn the tower's foundations into jelly. (SoM is not in 3.5, according to my SRD, which really sucks- using a wish or limited wish to replicate a similar effect "I wish the tower's foundations turned to air" will work) Use Contingency: Dimension Door to get yourself out, and have your blastermage buddy on hand to smash anyone who manages to get out in the few seconds before the tower's utter collapse. A few flying allies, such as constructs or summoned elementals, will also help. Red Mages tend to be hated agents of evil - try to enlist the help of a few good clerics - their offensive magic may not be much, but anything that takes the heat off of you is a welcome relief.
Edward 06-20-04, 04:53 AM	If the red wizards are all specialised in one school you have a chance. Unless it is conjuration or evocation in witch case you will have difficulties but not as much as if they are only individually specialised. That would be bad. Try to find this out first. Unless they are all diviners or something like that your chances of defeating them in open conflict are pathetic (if they are all diviners open conflict is your only chance). However they are in a stronghold witch you know the location of. Deny them a target while striking them down. A few disintegrates will topple there tower. If at all possible give the fighter a way to cast antimeric field (ring of spell storing is the most obvious) before engaging them in open combat. Always be ready to retreat. If you kill 4 apprentices and retreat next time you attack there will be 4 less apprentices. Don’t attack them at the tower. Attack when they go for food. Make a minor attack on the tower every 4 hours. Make enough of a disturbance to get all the mages out of bed and then retreat (to maintain your one spell casting abilities do this in shifts or use plainer binding/ plainer ali to get some critters to do the midnight attack for you) These are all tactics that you can use. Just be shore to take all possible precautions against scrying and other divinations and be ready to run if they do find you. Edward
Incensius 06-20-04, 11:04 AM	First of all: If you have unlimited funds do this: Buy as many scrolls as you can and give them to the wizard. Use "Antimagic field" scrolls as often as possible. Also, if you still have 40.000 gp (i think), buy a Ioun stone (lavender and green ellipsoid i think was in 3.0 edition) that absorbs spells up to 8th level. Also, as a variant, you can buy a rod of absorbtion....use any kind of item that negates magic. Also, as Korhal said, it's best if you can enlist the air of others. The first to come to mind are the Harpers. If your DM has created this Tower of the Red Mages, i think he won't have problems using two or three Nicely done harpers that can at least save your lives if not actually inflict serios damage to others...
Kolo 06-20-04, 09:39 PM	Make a couple of clay golems, hide them in bags of holding, drop them into the stronghold, tell them to "clean it out" and then go pick up the pieces when they're done. Seriously, golems are THE best things to have on your side against spellcasters. In fact, make one or two of the biggest golems you can, or get help in crafting it/them. Get them into the tower somehow and blast at the foundations with everything you've got. Chances are you've either put the golems at the top or at the bottom of the tower; either works fine. Wizards go investigate, either going up to the top to get a better view or going down to control the damage. The golems, with their unbeatable spell resistance, are waiting for them either way. (heck, put one golem on each entrance. the mayhem is worth it.) Then retreat to safety and see if it's safe to attack again only a couple of hours later. They'll still be recuperating and won't be expecting another magical assault, or at beast can only mount a token defence. make your enemy weak and then strike him when he is. then kick him when he's down for good measure. :D
Pathanus 06-22-04, 12:59 PM	This can be done easier than you think. Most kingdoms hate the Red Wizards. Red Wizards hate other Red Wizards. Red Wizards have low fortitude saves. Steps: Poison the wine/ale/(not water) that the wizards are going to use so they are weakened. (The slaves in the second step won't be drinking wine and stuff). Bribe Red Wizard followers to setup a slave revolt the day you are attacking (provide weapons and armor). Get the leader of the nation you are in to provide militia or troops for you to use. Use illusions to fake like you have the enclave surrounded. Ethereally get into the enclave (harder to detect than invisibility) and summon, buff and blast. Or you could just spread rumors to the other enclaves about this one coming into some nice treasure or magic or something. Path
Stonecoldgargoyle 06-22-04, 01:20 PM	I don't think you can win a fair fight. So why make the fight fair? As others have pointed out, the Red Wizards are evil. How's their relationship with the surrounding kingdoms? If you can, use your diplomacy skills to round up support. I think your goal here is to force the Red Wizards to divert and/or divide their resources away from this tower, or at least away from your attack. A few ideas: Hire a party of adventurers to invade the tower. While the adventurers invade from one direction, you invade from another. Start a rumor that there's a powerful magical doohickey in such-and-such a place and lure out some of the mages to come get it. You've got constructs? Good. Get a merchant to be your patsy. Load your constructs into a covered wagon, then set the constructs loose inside the fortress. Charm and/or dominate a giant. Have him launch a full-out boulder assault on the tower along with your constructs as infantry. Use this as cover to launch your special-forces attack. Craft a couple magical weapons. Make the weapons the prize for the first adventuring party to bring the red wizards' heads to you.
Votan 06-22-04, 02:56 PM	Originally posted by Vlorich San'cheh a school of Red mages probably (15 at lvl 5-7; 10 at 7-9; 5 at lvl 12-14; at least 1 at lvl 15-18) The "at least one" at levels 15-18 is very worrisome. Casters with ninth level spells have options that can really make life tough for the party. Find out how many (divination magic) and assassinate them first. The ones at levels 12-14 might have disintegrate or somesuch evil spell but won't have the total party kill potential of ninth level spells. Mages have poor fortitude saves (as anoither poster noted) -- poison is a very good chice for weapon coating.
Decius 06-22-04, 10:50 PM	AMF and silence are your friends here- if nobody can cast spells, your pary loses about 75% of it's ability; they lose about 95% of theirs. That said, spike the wine/water with potions of Silence.
Korhal IV 06-23-04, 01:56 AM	Originally posted by Decius That said, spike the wine/water with potions of Silence. Sadly, I doubt most DMs will let that work. Otherwise, folks would be spiking the ocean with Fire Breathing or other such silliness. (Gaah, "Jaws" just sprang to mind) I like the idea of golems. If you've got the time, go for it.