10 lvl diffeance [Archive] - Wizards Community

10 lvl diffeance [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DV8N Coatrack
07-18-05, 06:48 AM i am in a campaign where i am a 5th lvl cleric and there is a 15 lvl rouge/???/gatecrasher with leadership. He has rule of a country. I used to have a lvl 10 cleric when he was lvl 11 and when he took his kingdom to a LE society (100k writ to use magic or be sent to anti-magic prisson/mine). I thought it would be best if i relenquished his power and beat the some since into him until he called all of his men on me, my cleric is imprisoned for the next 45 years. So the DM said that i could start at lvl 3 if i wanted. the other memebers of the so called party are 10 and 9. we just got a new member and he is lvl 4 ( and claims that its nuts to try to compete with a lvl15 char). I dont think it is right to make us start so low but the dm says that since my old cleric is still alive that i started so low. what are your oppinions about my case?
dantedarkstar
07-18-05, 07:05 AM I rarely post in "What's someone to do ?" but I'll make an exception here.

To me, it clearly looks like there is no party, and seriously I would consider asking DM to make the 15th level rogue an NPC and start a new character, that is in line with party.
I don't know all, but from your post it seems like you have little to no connection to the rogue, and I'm not sure if the rest of... err... "group"? does.
If the rogue is doing all the stuff by himself and it has nothing to do with other party members, then he isn't in any party, just another distant person from the world.

Sure, that would be not completely fair for the rogue, but is it fair what is happening now to you ? What about rest of "group" ? Do they really cooperate with the rogue as a party should and have common goals ?

If not, then it's more like single player campaign with some onlookers/people to bully around, not a party. If it's only you that is out of the circle... well... I don't think the DM would discard the rest of the group for you.

On the other note, making you lower level just because your previous character is "alive" is a nonsense. Ask him why you have to be so low level ? He'll probably tell you again that's because your previous character is still alive. Ask him: "So what ? How exactly I am benefitting with my new character that the old one is alive ? How is that supposed to put me on even comparable grounds with other players ?"

I have seen many posts like that, and I seriously start to wonder why so many DM's do not understand, that it's not their own fun that counts, but everyone's, and no, playing an errand boy in party of demigods isn't fun for most players...
And many that doesn't understand that while life isn't fair a game should... a life is life. A game is for fun.
nephtis
07-18-05, 08:04 AM I find this strange as well.
It's hard for your character (and you) to do anything the 15th level character can't do himself (or can hire npc more capable than himself for.) .
In a group every one has a specialty and others depend on it. Working together...
I guess every character wants be be a valuable part of a group and you don't feel your cleric is.

I've never seen a dm willingly create such a large difference in levels.
I mean, he'll have to prepare encounters that you are actually able to manage (yes, DMs want the players to suceed) and everything that is a challenge to a 15th level PC is a deadly to the 5th level PC.
Even if you're playing purely political adventures without imediate physical consequences this 15th level leader and your 5th level cleric can't compare.
Besides, everything the 5th level PC has a chance on victory against might be boring to the 15th level. That's no basic for an entertaining session.

Talk to your DM. It's in his own best interest. Your former PC being alife shouldn't be an argument.
Maybe this is his way of telling you that you shouldn't give up on your old PC? That he thinks you gave up on a PC without considereing all options he gave to you. Is he trying to 'punish' you for abandoning him?
BloodGod
07-18-05, 09:16 AM It sounds to me like your DM sucks. I'm sorry if he's a good friend of yours. But, that's how this seems to me. Like it all comes back to the DM. It looks to me as though the DM has failed. For one, I don't care if the rogue has leadership or not, how in the 9 Hells does he have an entire country? I have a 20th level Half Ogre with a strength of 60 and the Might Makes Right feat, and I don't even have a country.

To allow for one person to get that many levels above the rest of the group was also a very, very bad mistake. In addition, he wants you to start anew at 3rd. I'm really not seeing this as him telling you not to give up on your old character, because he had someone else start at 4th. I think he just doesn't know what he's doing, and is just pulling numbers out of thin air.

Has anyone questioned the DM's logic in the having people start low levels?

Also, could you please explain how the rogue managed to get 5 levels up on the rest of the group? I'm really intrigued by that.

-BG
Zorminster
07-18-05, 09:41 AM okay, im just gunna look at the numbers for a sec...
cleric: level 11
new toon: level 3
add the two: 14.
Rogue: 15

The dm probably used that very logic to determine youd be level 3. The discussion should go like this-

"I dont think level 3 is appropriate for my character, how about level XX?"

'Your cleric is still alive, your level 3'

"Thats only a valid argument if within the next 2 sessions I will resuce my cleric [a level 3 rescue an 11? paltry!] and be allowed to play them both together."

'Hmm you have a point'

"The rest of the group is being horribly slaughtered every encounter without the cleric."

'No they aren't'

"When their potions and Magic items run out they will be. And when they can no longer advance without impending doom, your campaign will fail."

'Hmmmm. You want your cleric back or the new character to be level XX?'

Just approach it logicly (sp? theres no a in there is there?) and make the discussion point to things in his 'interest'
Phrennzy
07-18-05, 11:29 AM Player: "I think being level 3 sucks."

DM: "But your cleric is still alive, imprisoned for 45 years."

Player: "...He hangs himself."

DM: "What?"

Player: "He hangs himself in shame for failing his god. Boo hoo. Boo hoo. Now, can I be level 14 so I can kick this rogue's ass and get the campaign moving again?"
Pain The Unbeliever
07-18-05, 11:54 AM Tell your DM to F*CK OFF. HE deserves nothing less. I mean really? What the F*CK is this guy thinking.
Pryrates
07-18-05, 01:10 PM I agree with Phrennzy on this, if the DMs only excuse as to why your left so far behind is that your old PC is still alive tell him he kills himself, got killed in a prison fight, whatever the point is hes dead. Although really this is completly rediculous to begin with. Just cause you have a former character alive somewhere should not cause your current one to be left in the dust by the rest of the "party" and I use that loosely since apparently the only character that does anything or gets anything is this rouge. If there are other group members in this same situation Id get together with them and have all of you go speak to your DM. If that fails start thinking of a way to kill the rouge, not directly but some good poison or hire someone even more powerful then himself.
wordserpent
07-18-05, 01:19 PM It sounds to me like this DM is heaping generous amounts of favor upon this 15th level rogue. My suggestion is that you try and reason with him as earlier posters have advised (phrennzy and Zorminster) but put out your feelers and start looking for a new campaign.

If you do find a new campaign, just leave this guys game.

There is also the remote chance that you have upset this DM in some way and he is trying to punish you. Consider a heart-to-heart talk with this person and find out what his/her problem is.
WizardlyFriend
07-18-05, 01:26 PM say you kill yourself as your old character, convince your DM that the 15th level rogue should become an NPC, you get a new character hopefully around 10 and the 15th level rogue shoudl get a new character around 3rd because his old character is still alive. :P
Dragonsblood
07-18-05, 06:32 PM Your DM obviusly doesn't have any clue how to DM. I suggest finding a new DM (maybe you or another person in the group) and starting a new campaign. Start at level 1 and make sure the group has good reason to be together; preferably with nonconflicting alignments. Midway through the campaign, if anyone wants to start a new character for whatever reason (death or choice), they should be 2 or 3 levels below the highest level character in the party.
Bohica
07-18-05, 07:01 PM Ask the DM if you and the other new character can take care of the petty assignments that the Leader Rogue is too busy to take care of while running a kingdom. Complete these "missions" outside the main campaign to build your characters up a bit. If that doesn't work...

You and the new character try to free your high level Cleric, thus bringing him back into the game...

Or just ask the DM to retire the 15th Level Rogue. You and the other low level PCs can work for him in his kingdom. This will give the player who is being forced to retire his character a sense of accomplishment and not make him as upset...

Bohica
Kintara
07-18-05, 10:28 PM Just hang around with the 15th level character for long enough. Don't worry, you'll die. ;) If they try to rez you, just say that your character doesn't want to come back.

Seriously, your DM is either playing favorites, being idiotic, or both.
DV8N Coatrack
07-18-05, 10:30 PM right now the rouge acts as our patrons giving us quest to do. And the dm has a time line of events that happen in game. my old toon was put in a sot of anti magic prisson for 4 years. My DM told me that after that 4 years i could attempt to escape. At that point i told him that was total ********. then he offered me the lvl 3 to use as i suposadly bide my time with the old one. Although, i dont think i will get my old toon back because all of the current toons in the "party" are in good with the rouge. So if my old toon did come back he would probroly just cause problems and most likley lose his alignment and saint temp. so should i just give up on my old toon and spend amonth in the mountains with this new one?
Kintara
07-18-05, 10:41 PM Just tell your DM that you're not playing a 3rd level character. NO! NEVER! What's he gonna do, slap you? There's this idea that whatever the DM says goes, not only do I disagree with this, it's not even true from a hardline perspective. Even if the DM is God, he's a god dependant on his believers.

If he doesn't budge, then stop playing. Let me be clear: are you having fun? If not, then STOP. They should put this in the PHB as the players' Rule 0: Stop playing if it's not fun.
OamuTheMonk
07-18-05, 11:56 PM It sounds to me like your DM sucks.

What age is the DM? If the answer is somewhere over...eight or so, then he just sucks. If he's under eight, he should'nt be DMing anyway, because he clearly doesn't understand the rules of the game. Get him to look at this thread, cause I would be genuinely interested in hearing this guy's reasoning behind these asshat decisions. Seriously, is he eight?
Dragonsblood
07-19-05, 02:25 AM right now the rouge acts as our patrons giving us quest to do. And the dm has a time line of events that happen in game. my old toon was put in a sot of anti magic prisson for 4 years. My DM told me that after that 4 years i could attempt to escape. At that point i told him that was total ********. then he offered me the lvl 3 to use as i suposadly bide my time with the old one. Although, i dont think i will get my old toon back because all of the current toons in the "party" are in good with the rouge. So if my old toon did come back he would probroly just cause problems and most likley lose his alignment and saint temp. so should i just give up on my old toon and spend amonth in the mountains with this new one?

Ya know, reading this really makes me want to slap you. Learn some social skills! This could all easily be solved by standing up for yourself, and letting the DM know that you're not having fun and that he's playing favorites with his rogue boyfriend. If you can't fix things by talking, you can fix things by walking - find a new group if all else fails. Quite frankly if I were you I would've found a new group long ago.
Ni!
07-19-05, 03:03 AM Shoot. Head. Hammer. DM.

And by the way, please take the time to write out an actual message. This isn't AIM.
Loren Pechtel
07-20-05, 12:25 AM Get a new DM.

Any DM who sets up such a situation doesn't know how the game works well enough to be DMing......
Phrennzy
07-20-05, 12:19 PM right now the rouge acts as our patrons giving us quest to do. And the dm has a time line of events that happen in game. my old toon was put in a sot of anti magic prisson for 4 years. My DM told me that after that 4 years i could attempt to escape. At that point i told him that was total ********. then he offered me the lvl 3 to use as i suposadly bide my time with the old one. Although, i dont think i will get my old toon back because all of the current toons in the "party" are in good with the rouge. So if my old toon did come back he would probroly just cause problems and most likley lose his alignment and saint temp. so should i just give up on my old toon and spend amonth in the mountains with this new one?

If I were the DM, I wouldn't want to unleash a PC that was a known problem causer either.

You need to talk with the DM and tell him you aren't having fun. The number one reason you play D&D is to have fun. Are you? Talk to him.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DV8N Coatrack 07-18-05, 06:48 AM	i am in a campaign where i am a 5th lvl cleric and there is a 15 lvl rouge/???/gatecrasher with leadership. He has rule of a country. I used to have a lvl 10 cleric when he was lvl 11 and when he took his kingdom to a LE society (100k writ to use magic or be sent to anti-magic prisson/mine). I thought it would be best if i relenquished his power and beat the some since into him until he called all of his men on me, my cleric is imprisoned for the next 45 years. So the DM said that i could start at lvl 3 if i wanted. the other memebers of the so called party are 10 and 9. we just got a new member and he is lvl 4 ( and claims that its nuts to try to compete with a lvl15 char). I dont think it is right to make us start so low but the dm says that since my old cleric is still alive that i started so low. what are your oppinions about my case?
dantedarkstar 07-18-05, 07:05 AM	I rarely post in "What's someone to do ?" but I'll make an exception here. To me, it clearly looks like there is no party, and seriously I would consider asking DM to make the 15th level rogue an NPC and start a new character, that is in line with party. I don't know all, but from your post it seems like you have little to no connection to the rogue, and I'm not sure if the rest of... err... "group"? does. If the rogue is doing all the stuff by himself and it has nothing to do with other party members, then he isn't in any party, just another distant person from the world. Sure, that would be not completely fair for the rogue, but is it fair what is happening now to you ? What about rest of "group" ? Do they really cooperate with the rogue as a party should and have common goals ? If not, then it's more like single player campaign with some onlookers/people to bully around, not a party. If it's only you that is out of the circle... well... I don't think the DM would discard the rest of the group for you. On the other note, making you lower level just because your previous character is "alive" is a nonsense. Ask him why you have to be so low level ? He'll probably tell you again that's because your previous character is still alive. Ask him: "So what ? How exactly I am benefitting with my new character that the old one is alive ? How is that supposed to put me on even comparable grounds with other players ?" I have seen many posts like that, and I seriously start to wonder why so many DM's do not understand, that it's not their own fun that counts, but everyone's, and no, playing an errand boy in party of demigods isn't fun for most players... And many that doesn't understand that while life isn't fair a game should... a life is life. A game is for fun.
nephtis 07-18-05, 08:04 AM	I find this strange as well. It's hard for your character (and you) to do anything the 15th level character can't do himself (or can hire npc more capable than himself for.) . In a group every one has a specialty and others depend on it. Working together... I guess every character wants be be a valuable part of a group and you don't feel your cleric is. I've never seen a dm willingly create such a large difference in levels. I mean, he'll have to prepare encounters that you are actually able to manage (yes, DMs want the players to suceed) and everything that is a challenge to a 15th level PC is a deadly to the 5th level PC. Even if you're playing purely political adventures without imediate physical consequences this 15th level leader and your 5th level cleric can't compare. Besides, everything the 5th level PC has a chance on victory against might be boring to the 15th level. That's no basic for an entertaining session. Talk to your DM. It's in his own best interest. Your former PC being alife shouldn't be an argument. Maybe this is his way of telling you that you shouldn't give up on your old PC? That he thinks you gave up on a PC without considereing all options he gave to you. Is he trying to 'punish' you for abandoning him?
BloodGod 07-18-05, 09:16 AM	It sounds to me like your DM sucks. I'm sorry if he's a good friend of yours. But, that's how this seems to me. Like it all comes back to the DM. It looks to me as though the DM has failed. For one, I don't care if the rogue has leadership or not, how in the 9 Hells does he have an entire country? I have a 20th level Half Ogre with a strength of 60 and the Might Makes Right feat, and I don't even have a country. To allow for one person to get that many levels above the rest of the group was also a very, very bad mistake. In addition, he wants you to start anew at 3rd. I'm really not seeing this as him telling you not to give up on your old character, because he had someone else start at 4th. I think he just doesn't know what he's doing, and is just pulling numbers out of thin air. Has anyone questioned the DM's logic in the having people start low levels? Also, could you please explain how the rogue managed to get 5 levels up on the rest of the group? I'm really intrigued by that. -BG
Zorminster 07-18-05, 09:41 AM	okay, im just gunna look at the numbers for a sec... cleric: level 11 new toon: level 3 add the two: 14. Rogue: 15 The dm probably used that very logic to determine youd be level 3. The discussion should go like this- "I dont think level 3 is appropriate for my character, how about level XX?" 'Your cleric is still alive, your level 3' "Thats only a valid argument if within the next 2 sessions I will resuce my cleric [a level 3 rescue an 11? paltry!] and be allowed to play them both together." 'Hmm you have a point' "The rest of the group is being horribly slaughtered every encounter without the cleric." 'No they aren't' "When their potions and Magic items run out they will be. And when they can no longer advance without impending doom, your campaign will fail." 'Hmmmm. You want your cleric back or the new character to be level XX?' Just approach it logicly (sp? theres no a in there is there?) and make the discussion point to things in his 'interest'
Phrennzy 07-18-05, 11:29 AM	Player: "I think being level 3 sucks." DM: "But your cleric is still alive, imprisoned for 45 years." Player: "...He hangs himself." DM: "What?" Player: "He hangs himself in shame for failing his god. Boo hoo. Boo hoo. Now, can I be level 14 so I can kick this rogue's ass and get the campaign moving again?"
Pain The Unbeliever 07-18-05, 11:54 AM	Tell your DM to FCK OFF. HE deserves nothing less. I mean really? What the FCK is this guy thinking.
Pryrates 07-18-05, 01:10 PM	I agree with Phrennzy on this, if the DMs only excuse as to why your left so far behind is that your old PC is still alive tell him he kills himself, got killed in a prison fight, whatever the point is hes dead. Although really this is completly rediculous to begin with. Just cause you have a former character alive somewhere should not cause your current one to be left in the dust by the rest of the "party" and I use that loosely since apparently the only character that does anything or gets anything is this rouge. If there are other group members in this same situation Id get together with them and have all of you go speak to your DM. If that fails start thinking of a way to kill the rouge, not directly but some good poison or hire someone even more powerful then himself.
wordserpent 07-18-05, 01:19 PM	It sounds to me like this DM is heaping generous amounts of favor upon this 15th level rogue. My suggestion is that you try and reason with him as earlier posters have advised (phrennzy and Zorminster) but put out your feelers and start looking for a new campaign. If you do find a new campaign, just leave this guys game. There is also the remote chance that you have upset this DM in some way and he is trying to punish you. Consider a heart-to-heart talk with this person and find out what his/her problem is.
WizardlyFriend 07-18-05, 01:26 PM	say you kill yourself as your old character, convince your DM that the 15th level rogue should become an NPC, you get a new character hopefully around 10 and the 15th level rogue shoudl get a new character around 3rd because his old character is still alive. :P
Dragonsblood 07-18-05, 06:32 PM	Your DM obviusly doesn't have any clue how to DM. I suggest finding a new DM (maybe you or another person in the group) and starting a new campaign. Start at level 1 and make sure the group has good reason to be together; preferably with nonconflicting alignments. Midway through the campaign, if anyone wants to start a new character for whatever reason (death or choice), they should be 2 or 3 levels below the highest level character in the party.
Bohica 07-18-05, 07:01 PM	Ask the DM if you and the other new character can take care of the petty assignments that the Leader Rogue is too busy to take care of while running a kingdom. Complete these "missions" outside the main campaign to build your characters up a bit. If that doesn't work... You and the new character try to free your high level Cleric, thus bringing him back into the game... Or just ask the DM to retire the 15th Level Rogue. You and the other low level PCs can work for him in his kingdom. This will give the player who is being forced to retire his character a sense of accomplishment and not make him as upset... Bohica
Kintara 07-18-05, 10:28 PM	Just hang around with the 15th level character for long enough. Don't worry, you'll die. ;) If they try to rez you, just say that your character doesn't want to come back. Seriously, your DM is either playing favorites, being idiotic, or both.
DV8N Coatrack 07-18-05, 10:30 PM	right now the rouge acts as our patrons giving us quest to do. And the dm has a time line of events that happen in game. my old toon was put in a sot of anti magic prisson for 4 years. My DM told me that after that 4 years i could attempt to escape. At that point i told him that was total ********. then he offered me the lvl 3 to use as i suposadly bide my time with the old one. Although, i dont think i will get my old toon back because all of the current toons in the "party" are in good with the rouge. So if my old toon did come back he would probroly just cause problems and most likley lose his alignment and saint temp. so should i just give up on my old toon and spend amonth in the mountains with this new one?
Kintara 07-18-05, 10:41 PM	Just tell your DM that you're not playing a 3rd level character. NO! NEVER! What's he gonna do, slap you? There's this idea that whatever the DM says goes, not only do I disagree with this, it's not even true from a hardline perspective. Even if the DM is God, he's a god dependant on his believers. If he doesn't budge, then stop playing. Let me be clear: are you having fun? If not, then STOP. They should put this in the PHB as the players' Rule 0: Stop playing if it's not fun.
OamuTheMonk 07-18-05, 11:56 PM	It sounds to me like your DM sucks. What age is the DM? If the answer is somewhere over...eight or so, then he just sucks. If he's under eight, he should'nt be DMing anyway, because he clearly doesn't understand the rules of the game. Get him to look at this thread, cause I would be genuinely interested in hearing this guy's reasoning behind these asshat decisions. Seriously, is he eight?
Dragonsblood 07-19-05, 02:25 AM	right now the rouge acts as our patrons giving us quest to do. And the dm has a time line of events that happen in game. my old toon was put in a sot of anti magic prisson for 4 years. My DM told me that after that 4 years i could attempt to escape. At that point i told him that was total ********. then he offered me the lvl 3 to use as i suposadly bide my time with the old one. Although, i dont think i will get my old toon back because all of the current toons in the "party" are in good with the rouge. So if my old toon did come back he would probroly just cause problems and most likley lose his alignment and saint temp. so should i just give up on my old toon and spend amonth in the mountains with this new one? Ya know, reading this really makes me want to slap you. Learn some social skills! This could all easily be solved by standing up for yourself, and letting the DM know that you're not having fun and that he's playing favorites with his rogue boyfriend. If you can't fix things by talking, you can fix things by walking - find a new group if all else fails. Quite frankly if I were you I would've found a new group long ago.
Ni! 07-19-05, 03:03 AM	Shoot. Head. Hammer. DM. And by the way, please take the time to write out an actual message. This isn't AIM.
Loren Pechtel 07-20-05, 12:25 AM	Get a new DM. Any DM who sets up such a situation doesn't know how the game works well enough to be DMing......
Phrennzy 07-20-05, 12:19 PM	right now the rouge acts as our patrons giving us quest to do. And the dm has a time line of events that happen in game. my old toon was put in a sot of anti magic prisson for 4 years. My DM told me that after that 4 years i could attempt to escape. At that point i told him that was total ********. then he offered me the lvl 3 to use as i suposadly bide my time with the old one. Although, i dont think i will get my old toon back because all of the current toons in the "party" are in good with the rouge. So if my old toon did come back he would probroly just cause problems and most likley lose his alignment and saint temp. so should i just give up on my old toon and spend amonth in the mountains with this new one? If I were the DM, I wouldn't want to unleash a PC that was a known problem causer either. You need to talk with the DM and tell him you aren't having fun. The number one reason you play D&D is to have fun. Are you? Talk to him.