Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RavenoftheCrags 07-08-05, 10:55 AM	I was once in a palace and the Dm made the floor collapse and me to fall into a planar portal where I was eaten by a large group of Slaadi
Radijs 07-08-05, 10:57 AM	Whoa what did you do to **** that DM off?
RavenoftheCrags 07-08-05, 11:01 AM	I refused to get him a drink from the fridge. Big mistake...
fallabel 07-08-05, 11:02 AM	...immature DM...
rbrt_Spade 07-08-05, 11:09 AM	when my dm made fight a great green wrym because i kept the orb of dragonkind(red) it wanted... :weep:-my level 15 fighter died...
Aeolus91 07-08-05, 12:16 PM	when my dm made fight a great green wrym because i kept the orb of dragonkind(red) it wanted... :weep:-my level 15 fighter died... Level 15 with major artifacts.... You should've seen it coming. Lotsa powerful beasts are gonna say "Look at the little weakling with the Shield of Prator and Sword of Kas.... :devil: hehe..."
chrisnd 07-08-05, 02:08 PM	I am a very nasty DM who happens to be over here in the player boards making sure my players are bit**ing about something. So, I thought I would be really nasty and come over here and share some mean stories. I once killed 3 PC's (out of 5 in the party) because they were too stupid to ask questions. They trusted a stranger and didn't ask his name or who he was. They were all 4th level characters, and the "stranger" that they forgot to talk about was an 18th level cleric. I torched them. It was fun. Now they are the most paranoid faction of wackos out there! In college, I refused to let any of my players keep their characters after the end of teh spring semester. I insisted that they "rescue the princess in the trapped in the dragon's lair". The stipulation was that if they survived, they could keep their character sheet - if they died, I would tear up the character sheet while they watched, then burn the pieces with my lighter. Everyone was cool with it, and went into the lair with a pretty cocky attitude (2nd ed level 17 and 18 characters). Little did they know that the dragon was a Great Wyrm Red. Of the 33 players that made the dungeon run, only one survived - and he never touched the dragon, he just ran in, grabbed the nicest looking sword, and ran out. He got the vorpal, and avoided the wrath of "Flagratious Burnicus", the Great Red Dragon. I am one mean, nasty, SoB. Har, Har, Har. Okay, not really. But I have done some mean things to my players. I am sure if they were reading this thread, they would agree.
Ut-Napishtim 07-08-05, 02:17 PM	Yeah, I've got a classic screwjob for you. A while back I played in a game, and when the DM asked me about my character concept I told him I was probably going to go with a Fighter, and maybe take a level in Rogue for some business and interpersonal skills. Basically sort of a guy who started out as a merchant guard and eventually worked up to a merchant and gained some favor in a prominent merchant house. So the DM said: I don't think Rogue's going to do that for you, go with Aristocrat instead. So I said okay. So after I make my character an Aristocrat 2/Fighter 1 (we were starting off at 3rd level) the DM informs me that I won't be getting the extra money for being an Aristocrat because it might unbalance the game (we also weren't getting any extra for our level - 3rd level characters with 1st level money.) He tells me he might give me a 'family heirloom' magic item though to be fair. So I'm thinking that's kind of a bummer, but it's only like 500 gold so what the heck no biggie. The 'family heirloom' end up being a suit of MW Scale Mail (hooray!) So we start the campaign, and the DM's plot? Well as it turns out my character was supposed to be guarding some imortant item and it fell into the hands of bandits. My family has disowned me, and everyone I talk to has a -10 negative reaction modifier because they've heard about it and hate me for losing the item. Now I must hire some adventurers (the other PC's) to go find it. Except I only have 10 gp to do it with because the DM didn't want to 'unbalance' the game by giving me a lousy couple hundred gold. On top of that down the road I discover that all the other PC's had at least 50 gold in their pockets, and got their own special 'family heirlooms' from the DM. Of course, their's are no mediocre MW Scale Mail - they all have like +2 armors, or +1 weapons, or wonderous items worth a couple thousand gold. And he wants me to hire them? I managed to hire the other PC's because they didn't want to hold up the adventure, but that adventure turned into the DM's entire campaign. So for the entire game I had nothing and people hated me wherever I went. Each week we'd take one step forward and two or three back in finding this stupid item. Finally my (LN) character hung himself in a jail cell when we got thrown in there for burning down some church the Rogue insisted we incinerate because it was crawling with Demons inside. The DM was totally shocked. I explained that being arrested like this when I was already disowned left no chance for my character to recover his honor - thus nothing left for him to live for. The entire game fell apart shortly thereafter because the DM just sucked and couldn't come up with anything to motivate the PC's.
jameswilliamogle 07-08-05, 02:43 PM	my god that's harsh. well, ive never delt w/ anything like that, but once in HS we were all taking rotations as dm (1st ed). one person really didnt want to do it, but we forced him (never force a player to be a dm, btw). so our 1st level characters wake up in the 643rd layer of the abyss, and there's a pile of dragon skulls exactly 99 skulls high in a pyramid (remember the 1st ed dmg about destroying artifacts???). we climb to the top and take one off. apparantly, that reactivates the artifact at the bottom of the pile, and who shows up? tiamat. well, one of the players, who made a cool elf fighter w/ double wpn specialization in longbow and rolled an 18 dex (3d6 per stat, in order) says "c'mon, i've read The Hobbit, you've got to give me some chance of hitting the weak point in her belly." the dm says "sure, 1 chance in 1000". he rolls three zeroes in a row. "omg!" we're shouting, but the dm had looked the other way during the first roll. "roll that one again..." ...and another 0 came up. anyway, that was the end of the adventure, and he inherited the 2nd plane of hell or whatever it was. sorry... maybe this belongs in another thread. anyways, it was definitely the most memorable dnd moment ive had, even if it did only last 15 minutes...
HypnoticMonk 07-08-05, 03:13 PM	I am a very nasty DM who happens to be over here in the player boards making sure my players are bit**ing about something. So, I thought I would be really nasty and come over here and share some mean stories. I once killed 3 PC's (out of 5 in the party) because they were too stupid to ask questions. They trusted a stranger and didn't ask his name or who he was. They were all 4th level characters, and the "stranger" that they forgot to talk about was an 18th level cleric. I torched them. It was fun. Now they are the most paranoid faction of wackos out there! In college, I refused to let any of my players keep their characters after the end of teh spring semester. I insisted that they "rescue the princess in the trapped in the dragon's lair". The stipulation was that if they survived, they could keep their character sheet - if they died, I would tear up the character sheet while they watched, then burn the pieces with my lighter. Everyone was cool with it, and went into the lair with a pretty cocky attitude (2nd ed level 17 and 18 characters). Little did they know that the dragon was a Great Wyrm Red. Of the 33 players that made the dungeon run, only one survived - and he never touched the dragon, he just ran in, grabbed the nicest looking sword, and ran out. He got the vorpal, and avoided the wrath of "Flagratious Burnicus", the Great Red Dragon. I am one mean, nasty, SoB. Har, Har, Har. Okay, not really. But I have done some mean things to my players. I am sure if they were reading this thread, they would agree. So the "heroes" who dared to face danger got killed, while the cowardly one got rewarded? Gee why didnt you make that sword he grabbed out of plutonium so that he suffered a horrible rotting death? In fact, why didn't you just make a dungeon where none of their magic worked and any of the first doors they opened blinded them, broke their legs, teleported all their weapons away and gave them a geas that they couldn't leave the dungeon until they killed one of every dragon with a moldy washcloth as their only weapon? The day I game with someone who gets a kick out of destroying something that belongs to me is the last day I game with someone that immature. ( yes I keep ALL my character sheets... since 1st Edition and on up)
fallabel 07-08-05, 03:20 PM	So the "heroes" who dared to face danger got killed, while the cowardly one got rewarded? Gee why didnt you make that sword he grabbed out of plutonium so that he suffered a horrible rotting death? In fact, why didn't you just make a dungeon where none of their magic worked and any of the first doors they opened blinded them, broke their legs, teleported all their weapons away and gave them a geas that they couldn't leave the dungeon until they killed one of every dragon with a moldy washcloth as their only weapon? The day I game with someone who gets a kick out of destroying something that belongs to me is the last day I game with someone that immature. ( yes I keep ALL my character sheets... since 1st Edition and on up) I completely agree.
Phrennzy 07-08-05, 05:20 PM	Yeah, I've got a classic screwjob for you. A while back I played in a game, and when the DM asked me about my character concept I told him I was probably going to go with a Fighter, and maybe take a level in Rogue for some business and interpersonal skills. Basically sort of a guy who started out as a merchant guard and eventually worked up to a merchant and gained some favor in a prominent merchant house. So the DM said: I don't think Rogue's going to do that for you, go with Aristocrat instead. So I said okay. So after I make my character an Aristocrat 2/Fighter 1 (we were starting off at 3rd level) the DM informs me that I won't be getting the extra money for being an Aristocrat because it might unbalance the game (we also weren't getting any extra for our level - 3rd level characters with 1st level money.) He tells me he might give me a 'family heirloom' magic item though to be fair. So I'm thinking that's kind of a bummer, but it's only like 500 gold so what the heck no biggie. The 'family heirloom' end up being a suit of MW Scale Mail (hooray!) So we start the campaign, and the DM's plot? Well as it turns out my character was supposed to be guarding some imortant item and it fell into the hands of bandits. My family has disowned me, and everyone I talk to has a -10 negative reaction modifier because they've heard about it and hate me for losing the item. Now I must hire some adventurers (the other PC's) to go find it. Except I only have 10 gp to do it with because the DM didn't want to 'unbalance' the game by giving me a lousy couple hundred gold. On top of that down the road I discover that all the other PC's had at least 50 gold in their pockets, and got their own special 'family heirlooms' from the DM. Of course, their's are no mediocre MW Scale Mail - they all have like +2 armors, or +1 weapons, or wonderous items worth a couple thousand gold. And he wants me to hire them? I managed to hire the other PC's because they didn't want to hold up the adventure, but that adventure turned into the DM's entire campaign. So for the entire game I had nothing and people hated me wherever I went. Each week we'd take one step forward and two or three back in finding this stupid item. Finally my (LN) character hung himself in a jail cell when we got thrown in there for burning down some church the Rogue insisted we incinerate because it was crawling with Demons inside. The DM was totally shocked. I explained that being arrested like this when I was already disowned left no chance for my character to recover his honor - thus nothing left for him to live for. The entire game fell apart shortly thereafter because the DM just sucked and couldn't come up with anything to motivate the PC's. You deserved it for agreeing to be an aristocrat. But the hanging is awesome, I do applaud that :)
Bruunwald 07-08-05, 06:22 PM	My very first game ever, I was 11 years old. I had been waiting for months to play. My friend from across the street's older brother - he was 14, I think, was the local DM. He played with his brother and this other kid, who was really bad news, always getting into trouble. One of those privileged kids who thinks he deserves to get away with everything. Anyway... The older brother finally agrees to let me play. He tells me to roll up a character and bring it over Saturday morning. So I show up with my dice, my little, half-painted figure, my very first, 1st-level character. The other two guys are running like, five or six characters each (don't ask if you're younger than 25: it's just the dumb way we played back then), and they're all ridiculously high levels. This is my first game, I have entirely no idea what that means or what I'm doing. So there's this ruined castle, and my very first chance to go into a dark passage, and I walk in, and I get bit by something, and I die right there. So the DM basically tells me I'm out, but I can watch, if I want. I sit there for an hour with the bad seed chuckling at me. Later, my friend, the younger brother, lets me in on it that the rotten kid had complained that the older brother was letting me play, and neither really wanted me to play, so the DM intentionally left me at 1st-level instead of bumping me up as he had the others. What the hell did I know? I was 11 years old and had never played before. So I got another friend over and began to DM for him. I eventually got my revenge: after DMing for two years I became quite a good player. Good enough that the older brother finally gamed with me and decided playing with me was easier and more inspiring than with his brother. But by then he was pretty much done with the scene, and I only played with him a couple more times. How's that for a first experience? I'm sure on the rare occasions I was a player, other DMs have done detestable things to me, but that one springs to mind first. I wanted to play so bad I was practically wetting my pants. Thanks to this guy, I wouldn't get to sit on the player's side of the table for another two years, and only a handful of times in my whole life. Once you're known and in demand as DM, I find, it's hard to get away from it.
Ut-Napishtim 07-08-05, 07:02 PM	Dang Bruunwald, that's bad. I started playing at around 12 with neighborhood kids, but at least we all had one of my neighbors' older brother who was like 20 DMing for us. He was awesome, I didn't have to start my own game until a couple years later when he went back to college. I feel bad for you, dude.
Radijs 07-08-05, 07:07 PM	Ut-Napishtim, that suicide was really brilliant. I applaud you. And Bruunwald Dang indeed that really bites.
the_fools_wildhunt 07-09-05, 12:53 PM	After I left school and the campaign I played there I found a DM willing to take me in. All the characters in it were 15th which was ok because I had a character at 14th from the previous campaign. The DM checked it out and cleared it, but when I got to the first game, he said that my gear had been stolen, to make things fair for the long term players. I took it as a challenge because he said they were hunting the people who took it and I would have back soon enough. 10 games later with equipment suitable for a 2nd level while the others were walking war-machines we got dropped into the Dragon Mountain adventure and in the first encounter, a kobold with a wand shrunk me to half size. Apparently, dispel magic doesn't work in this campaign area ( :rolleyes: ) and so with non-magical weapons and armour and half size, I barely survived the adventure. I took the hint (actually, I got it 8 games ago, but was stubborn), I took my character and walked out. I was a pack mule NPC for the party no more.
Jaime_Wolf 07-09-05, 07:08 PM	Hrm, I tend to think the worst situations DMs can get themselves into all involve purchasing of the Epic Levels handbook too early...One person in our group, who has yet to run a campaign that's lasted more than 2 sessions, decided his next campaign would be epic. So, we walk through a cave entrance for some reason (don't remember) and end up in the World Serpent Inn (a web enhancement for MotP I think, might have been Planar Handbook though...). So, inside, some strange monster from MM2 or 3 asks us to help him get some random artifact from the lich queen of the Githyanki. We left the inn and went outside, where, for some reason unknown to us we were attacked by a Tarrasque and then tons of smaller enemies. This monster (a black something) is normally extremely good at spellcasting and hates psionics if I remember correctly. Anyhow, this DM had made one that WAS a psion and had "editted" it's abilities to match. What this essentially meant was a psion with death powers that were near impossible to resist (25th level ECL by the way, same as us). He later figured out that a hecatoncheires (sp?), a god-killing monster, had no possiblity of resisting his death power, and due to the CR of the hecatoncheires, his level would be somewhere in the mid 200s. So, after we see these crazy monsters we think, oh well, at least we get to fight. Naturally his monster thing kills the horde of small things INSTANTLY, ALL OF THEM. The wizard and I work together and kill the Tarrasque, so not too bad there. But it gets worse. He trys to hurry everyone up during combat (and it's almost NEVER combat as in lots of smaller things to kill, it's nearly always one large monster, and most often one that takes all sorts of weird strategy TO kill). So, we make it to a portal leading to the throne room of the lich queen. Of course, he just says (paraphrasing, I don't remember exactly) "You're epic level, you wouldn't have any problem with any of the githyanki, so I'm not going to bother having you fight them." Now, he ominously tells us that only 2 people can go through the portal each round. We assume that since he asks our order it MATTERS. After a good 10 minutes of deciding our strategy for the room we're about to enter, he yells at us to hurry up. We go into the room and it's empty, it's just an anteroom to the large throne room. The throne room is shaped like a large cone attack eminatting from us and contains (somehow we know this, since we can't see them as they're in the corners of the squares on the two nearest edges to us) a ton of low-level githyanki armed with epic brilliant energy crossbows. Our sorceror takes them all out with a cone spell. The fighters kill the golems, and I manifest a death power at the lich (it was late). He says that it fails its save and dies. Now, later I realise it and tell him it wouldn't work. He says he knows, but he just told me it killed her so she could run away!!!!! So we think "okay, at least we can sell all those crossbows, that's a decent amount of money." Now, naturally, for some reason the crossbows all turned to worthless dust as soon as we killed the lich queen (even though we didn't). So, now we chase her down through a portal we've made to the negative energy plane. Sure we take damage every round in there if we don't use a spell to help us, but somehow she's surrounded by guards that take no damage from any of it. We kill her (again?). Next session we fly on a plane-travelling ship of ours to a city (we didn't choose to go there, the DM just said we went there). I asked what it looked like and he sait it didn't matter except there was a big dome there. He then explained (there's no way our characters knew this) that all disputes were solved there in the arena, which could change shape inside to the fighter's whim. So we ask if there are any shops or anything nearby as we want to sell the two or three things we DID get out of the adventure. He says "I didn't really map out the city, I just wanted to give you guys a place where you could fight each other, when you die in there you get ressurected automatically so don't worry." So we humour him for the last time and fight each other (by now he's asked me to make a new character as MY psion is overpowered since it killed the lich queen [or rather would have if she wasn't a LICH queen]). I've got an iaijutsu master, one idiot player says look at the damage I can do, he says I must be overpowered, the DM agrees. I run up and attack him with an iaijutsu strike (lots of damage). He's a fighter, it does less than 1/2 of his HP. Then he runs up doing 3/4 of my HP in damage. The druid then polymorphs into an elder earth elemental in the air and drops on me killing me instantly. They all think my character is overpowered and ask me to make a new one. This was the point where I quit and there were no more sessions of the campaign anyway. He's usually better, and has been lately except for some idea he got in his head of having some ship from starcraft fall into our universe and bring with it epic protoss and zerg fighting each other (and only protoss could be psions, and some "balanced" class he had made for dark templars made them constantly invisible, very good soulknifes, and very good psions). We had a long encounter with the first protoss simply to end in "Suddenly the door down the hall slams open and you all get thrown into the wall." We complained enough to get him to make a more normal campaign and hopefully it'll be better.
Dick Dastardly 07-09-05, 07:42 PM	my group has been playing for 3 or 4 months now, and were on a dm rotation thing, at first we played every week, there were no real problems, just all getting to learn the rules, but then the next dm came along and before him, 2 months or so we had no player kills, but with him as dm we had a total party kill every session and we played 4 sessions with him as dm. it was horrible, im not an experienced player but i know d&d was not designed with that in mind. he is nolonger dm, but he insists on contantly playing evil characters. not that thats a problem really.
Lidian 07-10-05, 05:52 AM	my seventh level cleric Brother Samuel and company are at the bar dm says people are screaming we go outside. The Tarrasque. I say I grab my horse and run, rest of the party follows suit, or tries. Nope, paralyzed by fear. Same dm we find an intelligent sword. im the only one who can use it and I suggest we leave it on the altar and keep going. Party agrees its probably a lot more trouble than its worth. As we go to leave the room, the sword starts screaming, trying to raise an alarm. I agree to be the martyr and pick it up. Hellsword. A weapon of infinite power. Another player, knowing Im feelin a bit screwed because I HATE overly powerful items, tries to do the right thing by me and decides the easiest way to remove the sword from my possession is to cut my arm off in my sleep. Sword fireballs the poor guy to death. Still dont know if that sword had a purpose other than to p.. tick me off.
Jarric 07-10-05, 10:14 PM	So, a grey elf and myself are running right next to each other from a fire giant who is throwing rocks. I turn around to look back to see the rocks and shout "Rock" and try to dodge. Now, I saw the rock, knew it was coming and tried to get out of the way. The DM denied me my dex bonus, my Dodge feat bonus and my racial bonus to AC against giants as a Dwarf. I lost a +7 to AC. That knocked my AC down from 21 to a 14. I got hit. The grey elf next to me didn't get his dex bonus taken away niether his dodge bonus. He ducked as a response to me screaming "Rock." His AC was exactly 21. He didn't get hit. The DM's reasoning behind this was that the giant didn't reach his AC so he didn't get hit. My AC should have been the same thing. I've tried to figure out why I get denied these bonuses after seeing the rock and the one who didn't see it was fine.
Always-Late 07-11-05, 01:04 AM	Because your DM is unfair. That was easy.
Vrykolas2k 07-11-05, 02:01 PM	I once dealt with a REALLY unfair GM. Playing Talislanta, he'd kill off any mounts or pets our characters had. And have items "mysteriously vanish". And an omniscient, unkillable NPC. Playing 2nd ed AD&D, he decided he wanted my swshbuckler kit fighter to be just another tank warrior {with a 16 STR and 19 DEX... he was an elf}... when the character was bathing in a stream, all of his stuff vanished and he later {barely survived an encounter with an owl-bear} found a set of chain-mail and a longsword. Again, mounts and pets died. He also had a great wyrm red dragon sack our just-built tower. Playing the old D6 Star wars, he started off as a player. I was a Failed Jedi. I acquired an astromech droid, he destroyed it and another player's protocol droid. We spaced his character. Then after a few days he took over as GM, since the fellow who was running got sent to the field. I'd made some killer rolls to pull the wool over a force-uising Imperial's eyes before the guy took over... when he did, the NPC knew EVERYTHING and my rolls didn't count for squat. All of the femmes he had as NPCs were sluts, no matter what system. In Vampire, my character learned a very rare discipline... Spirit Thaumaturgy. Suddenly, like six NPCs had it. In MechWarrior, he was playing. he stole some-one's mech and got it destroyed. In ShadowRun, he was GM and decided to have everyone's vehicle explode. After awhile, we all stopped playing in his campaigns; we also forbade him from playing with us.
Sandaa 07-11-05, 03:32 PM	Ut-Napishtim, that suicide thing, you aren't the only one, i've done the exact same thing, some Dm's seriously don't think things through, my dm back then was so shocked that he actually apologized several times
Bruunwald 07-11-05, 03:49 PM	I once dealt with a REALLY unfair GM. Playing Talislanta, he'd kill off any mounts or pets our characters had. And have items "mysteriously vanish". And an omniscient, unkillable NPC. Playing 2nd ed AD&D, he decided he wanted my swshbuckler kit fighter to be just another tank warrior {with a 16 STR and 19 DEX... he was an elf}... when the character was bathing in a stream, all of his stuff vanished and he later {barely survived an encounter with an owl-bear} found a set of chain-mail and a longsword. Again, mounts and pets died. He also had a great wyrm red dragon sack our just-built tower. Playing the old D6 Star wars, he started off as a player. I was a Failed Jedi. I acquired an astromech droid, he destroyed it and another player's protocol droid. We spaced his character. Then after a few days he took over as GM, since the fellow who was running got sent to the field. I'd made some killer rolls to pull the wool over a force-uising Imperial's eyes before the guy took over... when he did, the NPC knew EVERYTHING and my rolls didn't count for squat. All of the femmes he had as NPCs were sluts, no matter what system. In Vampire, my character learned a very rare discipline... Spirit Thaumaturgy. Suddenly, like six NPCs had it. In MechWarrior, he was playing. he stole some-one's mech and got it destroyed. In ShadowRun, he was GM and decided to have everyone's vehicle explode. After awhile, we all stopped playing in his campaigns; we also forbade him from playing with us. You know what that sounds like to me? That sounds like a Game Master who doesn't want to have to deal with any classes, items, etc., that he is not familiar with, and who forces you to take simpler ones that he is okay with playing. It's sort of nerfing for simplicity's sake. That's a lazy referee.
Mercurius 07-11-05, 04:25 PM	worst game I ever played in was a 3.0 Ravenloft game. I was home from college for the summer, and hadn't gotten to play 3.0 yet, so I was dying for the chance. My buddy and I joined this game, where we were the new guys and there are about 4 other players, including one other player joining at the time... We decide to make fighters since we're both kind of new to the system. After being "advised" by one of the players that my human fighter should use all three of her feats for Toughness, I declined and built the character I wanted to play. The DM gave me a free 3rd edition fitted kit that did nothing but grant me an extra ability, and we were off... The first adventure was fine, aside from demonstrating to my friend and I that we were the most competant players in our party. A session or two later, one of the PCs fired his flintlock at a pack of zombies that were accosting our camp. He missed (and not by rolling a 1, either) and the DM declared that his bullet flew backwards and shot another PC in the foot, doing almost half his HP in damage. The other new player in the group, who was playing a halfling rogue with lots of craft skills and alchemy ("Roscoe Boomgather" who rode a mangy war-dog), spent some time building some explosive devices to be used as weapons. That was his main thing. Throw explosive grenades and such at the enemy and let the shrapnel do the rest. Some of them were pretty good. A few adventures down the road, we come across a weird circus, and some feakshow attraction steals all his skills. So, now he can't use any of his craft skills, and is more or less half-way to being a drooling idiot. Completely gimped his character, who hadn't even been that powerful to begin with. Eventually, he volunteered to be an experiment at a mad scientist's lair and got his brain replaced with a chipmunk's. He had to leave town in a week or two anyway, and it would have been a long time before the effect that cost him his skills wore off (if the DM had ever let it)... Eventually, we wind up having a horde of beastmen created by the previously mentioned mad scientist demanding we give them an ancient artifact that some monks are guarding. We decided we aren't going to, and set up some planned defenses on the narrow, winding mountain road to repel their army. What do we find, come morning, but, and I quote, "Innumerable hordes" of the beastmen lined up below us. Each with a shield to prevent us from shooting them from above. Every time we dropped a flask of acid or alchemists fire on these shields, these unorganized and primitive beastmen would just raise another one. Every time we killed one of the frog beastmen scaling the shear cliffs, they'd bounce off the shields below them and fall the rest of the way, rather than killing goons below them. Whenever we managed, by some dint of fate, to kill one of the beastmen down below us, it didn't matter, because there was an infinte supply. The island wasn't even that big. I was a crossbow and longsword fighter (first time with 3rd edition, doncha know) and the DM actually ruled that a frogman who was 120' away from me, down the cliff, was "out of my range." I protested, and he informed me that "It's 120 feet. It's impossible to hit at that distance" completely disregarding that 120' is my heavy crossbow's range increment. Finally, after doing everything we could to fight this innumerable horde of Railroading, the DM informed us that maybe we should retire to the temple and pray, since "we'd obviously missed what we were supposed to do." My buddy and I considered going back for the last opportunity of the summer and just killing the rest of the PCs (all of them were idiots and terrible players) and handing over the artifact to the badguys before saying "bye" but we decided we had better things to do with the last Saturday I'd be in town. Worst. Game. EVER. (at least, for me).
tyranith_of_hextor 07-11-05, 06:34 PM	Ooh... so many stupidly horrible things that happens to me and the other PCs. For example, I was in an evil campaign and my favorite character I had ever played (Tyranith, cleric of Hextor) was killed. We were at an abandoned town (or so it seemed) and out of the buildings came a horde or "people" moving normally. Along with three gnolls (Who knows what level they were) and a "Lion-Man". The people had a weird blue tint. Tyranith (level 6, at the time) was killed by an army of 6th level commoner zombies, three gnolls and a 9th werelion. 6th level commoner zombies... :mad: . Yeah, right. Such horrible bulls***.
Vrykolas2k 07-11-05, 06:52 PM	Then, there was this OTHER guy who was married. His wife's character had a deck of many hings, with only the "good" cards. She was also a neutrl drow who could have spanked Lloth with her favourite matron mother, so great were the stats and powers of this character.
Radin Of The Justice 07-11-05, 07:01 PM	the ranger in my party once wanted some blessed arrows or something, well he cant find them anywhere that he can afford for some reason (he had more then enough wealth) there was a deal at one place where a quiver of 40 was selling for 10,000 (or just out of his reach). so he looks around town and some old retired archer said he had some surplus ones, but hed have to earn them. so he sends him out on some god forsaken mission running all around town doing average errands (grocerys and stuff like that). he gets it all done then the archer gives him a choice, he can take 20 of the arrows he wants or he can have 20,000 athren dollars (a new currency) he takes the 20,000 assuming its the better deal, goes to the store. and well it turns out athren dollars were worth nothing at all, infact 20,000 athren dollars transfers to like 2 copper. and needless to say the quivers price was gold peices :D
Thyme71 07-11-05, 11:11 PM	[QUOTE=chrisnd]I am a very nasty DM who happens to be over here in the player boards making sure my players are bit**ing about something. So, I thought I would be really nasty and come over here and share some mean stories. I once killed 3 PC's (out of 5 in the party) because they were too stupid to ask questions. They trusted a stranger and didn't ask his name or who he was. They were all 4th level characters, and the "stranger" that they forgot to talk about was an 18th level cleric. I torched them. It was fun. Now they are the most paranoid faction of wackos out there! [QUOTE] ROFLOL, reminds me of the thing I pulled on my players. The party entered a strange monastery with orc, hobgoblin, and elf monks (no time to go into details why they all got along). Well, the party first assumed that this was an evil place and they killed a few of the monks but started realizing that the monks didn't seem to have any animosity towards the party. The party started having a moral crisis right at the table, literally. Arguments broke out on how to resolve this and how to find peace with the monastery. At least that was until they ran into the monks that bore the markings of an evil cult. Crisis evaporated quickly, hacking began in ernest once again. Was hilarious for me as a DM while it lasted. Thyme71
Ut-Napishtim 07-11-05, 11:33 PM	Ut-Napishtim, that suicide thing, you aren't the only one, i've done the exact same thing, some Dm's seriously don't think things through, my dm back then was so shocked that he actually apologized several times This has actually gotten a couple of comments, and it was a pretty great moment. Thanks for the kudos. The DM didn't apologize or anything, in fact I think he was pretty peeved since I was the only player actually still playing along with his crap. I explained it in a straightforward fasion, and was relieved to finally be done with it. I think he was most shocked by the fact that a player would actually put his character's story and background over getting new feats, items, and powers (there was a penalty associated with dying.) This guy was just into beating down PC's or something. The way he worked my next character into the party was that he was found in a sack with nothing (having been captured) after the party defeated some Bugbears or something. The whole thing disintegrated in a couple weeks. The one player who definitely wasn't getting the short end of the stick was the party Rogue, who was the DM's buddy out of game. This player was the least organized player of the group (and that's being kind to him,) yet when he took the Leadership feat the DM gave him complete control of, and responsibility for all of his followers - whom he decided would accompany the party. That meant each combat round was two hours of this dude deciding what all his peeps were doing, and about fiifteen minutes for the other PC's. At the end we decided to just stand on the sidelines and watch his crew struggle to handle things because it was a little faster than actually trying to get in there ourselves. That was pretty much the last game. But wait, there's more. This dude was terrorized of arcane casters. He had his own campaign setting with no map, but when we mapped it out off his description for him it was about the size of Michigan. In this setting Sorcerers were outlaws who were hunted and killed on capture, and Wizards had a structure copied from the Dragonlance setting, except for a couple of caveats. The first was that the DM selected all the PC's spells for him. Starting spells, spells for level increase, and spells available to learn. The second was that every Wizard had to seek a council at the high temple of one of his homebrew deities who was in charge of magic before they could level up. At this time they would examine the Wizard's spellbooks to make sure he didn't have any "forbidden" spells, interrogate him, and subject him to magical scrutiny to make sure he wasn't evil and wasn't lying. Providing the Wizard passed this trial he could then level up and gain two new spells - chosen by the DM. Any Wizard who did not and decided to level up anyway instantly gained the status of a Sorcerer. Which means he was hunted and killed with no chance for trial or explanation. There were extra stipulations and costs for item creation feats as well, but since we never got enough money to worry about making a Longsword +1 I can't remember what they were. Lastly, there was a competition for campaign settings a bit before this back when 3E came out (I beleive Eberron may have been the winning setting as there was a promise of this new setting getting published or some such) and apparently this guy entered and was surprised when he lost. WTF, over? :nonono:
Need_A_Life 07-12-05, 05:59 AM	A) How do you recognize a sorcerer from a wizard unless he is preparing spells? B) How do you recognize an approved wizard from the outcast wizards? C) How could he justify that bull****?
20goingon1232 07-13-05, 06:43 AM	Hmm... How is this for an unfair DM? In Campaign 1: WoD system. Most of the players (about 5) create brand spanking new level 1 equivalent characters. Other players (about 2) and all the NPCs turn out to be 5th Gen vampires, Werewolves with stats through the roof, a Werewolf-Vampire crossbreed, Oracles, etc. In other words, 1st level characters in a world of epic level characters. Most of the time, we sat back and went to sleep while he played with his NPCs and the couple of PCs that have "roleplayed their way to epic levels". In Campaign 2: He creates a totally new system based on the WoD system. No one is supposed to know how everything works. Then, his best friend in the group turns up with a bunch of skills and feats that, as the game progress, is soon evident that it is the Spike Chain Tripper of the system. Everyone else is the equivalent of an Expert. He also has an NPC in this game that knows everything there is to know about some vague spirits that started appearing 2 weeks ago game time, while everyone else is still trying to figure out what happened (big apocalypse, lots of dead people, etc.). In Campaign 3: DnD 3.5. With no clerics, druids, monks or barbarians allowed in the party. Scared yet? But luckily....! There are clerics, druids and barbs that are almost epic levels in the game on our side. Hmmm.... Anyone getting de javu yet? Now, I incurred his wrath because I am a "powergamer". Why? I make characters that I optimise according to my own (rather flawed, I'd be the first to admit) reasonings, which involved trying to defend myself against all possible threats. So, he will be rolling my stats for me and assigning items to everyone instead of letting us buy stuff as per normal. Right, in this campaign, we were supposed to be famous level 12 good guys. Items/feats/etc. in the party (he "rolled the items randomly" he claims): Me (Ftr2/Psi10): +1 Platemail (Fire/10), Mace +1, Heavy Shield +2, Heavy Repeating Crossbow +1. I repeat, I am a Psion. Ranger: +5 Chain Shirt (+10 Hide, +10 Move Silent), +5 Composite Longbow (Flaming, Mighty) Bard/Thief: Half-Fiend Template with LA+3 Sorceror: Cloak of Charisma +4, Rod of Splendour, and that feat that allows him to cast spells as if he had +2 in Charisma. Ok. So I play the character as if he was a Fighter and never revealed I was a Psion as well. Well, guess what? I get Dominated without me ever rolling a Will save. Now, I am a Psion. I have a high Will save. We got hit earlier and I made my Reflex save (my lowest save) on a 12+. He claimed he rolled the Will saves for me (twice as per Dominate) but I failed both times (his explaination: "I have epic level characters in my campaign"). Ok.... So, thinking I am a Fighter (the DM admitted this), instead of telling me to kill the Sorceror or the Bard (his best friend in the group) standing right next to me, he asks me to kill a large group of guards 300ft away. Oh...kay.....! I take out my Repeating Crossbow. DM: "No! You won't do that! You will do it in the most effective way possible. Use your Energy Ball." In other words, I got exposed for being something more than a Fighter, the whole city is mad at me. Ok.... On the advice of my fellow party members, who weren't ****** at me (except the DM's best friend.... of course), I planeshifted out of there until things died down. When I planeshift back to check on things, he had me planeshift right into the middle of the ocean (the city I was aiming for is about 2 days travel inland). Him: You planeshift back, and you are falling. You fall into water and your platemail drag you down. You drown. (This is with no rolls, nothing.) Me: I have Dimension Door, Levitate and Planeshift! Him: You panicked and didn't think of using powers (Again, no rolls, and with a character of 18 Int and 12 Wis). Too bad. Roll up a new character. I rolled out the door.
digoraccoon 07-13-05, 08:24 AM	Yikes, a lot of scary stories here! o_o About the only truely unfair thing I ever did as DM was during a convention I ran a 7th level D&D 2e game with 11 players and never really paid attention to what kind of characters people were making or making up rules about what is allowed for the game. 11 players, 9 were chaotic neutral, game lasted uh... like 1 night before everyone killed themselves off doing dumb tricks or quitting because the party was little more organized then a mob. :) I still feel bad about that game. Since then I always play a role in helping my players make good stable characters that will work well in a group.
Jarric 07-13-05, 10:33 AM	Hmm... How is this for an unfair DM? Him: You planeshift back, and you are falling. You fall into water and your platemail drag you down. You drown. (This is with no rolls, nothing.) Me: I have Dimension Door, Levitate and Planeshift! Him: You panicked and didn't think of using powers (Again, no rolls, and with a character of 18 Int and 12 Wis). Too bad. Roll up a new character. I rolled out the door.You got screwed badly.
chrisnd 07-13-05, 11:29 AM	I accidently hit post twice - see next post. Sorry.
chrisnd 07-13-05, 11:37 AM	So the "heroes" who dared to face danger got killed, while the cowardly one got rewarded? Gee why didnt you make that sword he grabbed out of plutonium so that he suffered a horrible rotting death? In fact, why didn't you just make a dungeon where none of their magic worked and any of the first doors they opened blinded them, broke their legs, teleported all their weapons away and gave them a geas that they couldn't leave the dungeon until they killed one of every dragon with a moldy washcloth as their only weapon? The day I game with someone who gets a kick out of destroying something that belongs to me is the last day I game with someone that immature. ( yes I keep ALL my character sheets... since 1st Edition and on up) Thanks for your comments. But realize what I said in my original post - I told everyone about the "dragon Gauntlet" and gave them full knowledge of what their fate would be if they failed to escape. Part of the adventure was based on the old GamesWorkshop tile boardgame called "Dungeonquest" - you aren't supposed to kill the dragon (in fact, you can't), you are just supposed to run in, abscond (that means "steal secretly" for those of less intelligence) with as much treasure you can, and escape from the dungeon before the sun sets. The players were my friends, and I warned them all before the beginning of the year that their characters and character sheets were forever stuck in my campaign. A few were actually smart enough to make photocopies of their character sheets before the final session. If you also read my sig, you will notice the part about "a properly played Great Wyrm Red Dragon will never die - if it does, the DM did something wrong." The way I see it, a GWRD is very, very powerful indeed - and there is never any reason a dragon that old should be susceptible to a party of adventures, regardless of how resourceful or powerful they are (short of being "uber-epic"). What is really interesting is that the guy who ran away with the vorpal sword (non-plutonium, by the way) was the only guy who actually made it into the lair itself - the dragon was smart, and had hired and/or engaged in forced servitude a multitude of monsters to guard his lair before anyone ever got close. The party had to face ogres, trolls, fire giants, and the undead of previous adventurers before they ever even made it into the lair. The guy who got away wasn't so much a coward as much as a survivor. He realized that alone, there was no way he could defeat the dragon after having already been the last survivor against the dragon's guards. So he ran in, stole, and ran out. Bilbo didn't do anything different, although he did at a minimum engage in a conversation with Smaug. I also appreciate the fact that you have kept all of your old character sheets. I too have most of mine, although many of them are packed away in boxes from when I moved residences. I am sorry to hear that you think I am immature, either in my playing or otherwise, but those I play with enjoy my sense of style, sarcasm, and storytelling. But realize that I went 4 years as a DM in college, no one ever left my campaigns, and everyone agreed that "The lair of Flagratius Burnicus" was one of the greatest pure dungeon romps that they had ever experienced. Immature - maybe, as it really didn't fit in with any of the campaigns I was running. Immature - maybe, because I burned their character sheets at the end of the semester. Fun? - Without a doubt, one of the "funnest" things we ever did. In the immortal words of Spongebob Squarepants: "F is for friends who do things together U is for you and me N is for anywhere, anytime, and always Down here in the deep blue see." Fallabel - sorry to hear that you also disagree with my "fun" - hopefully my comments have shed additional light on the situation.
VarisTalnethalas 07-13-05, 01:16 PM	Hmmm... hard to say. My group worked as a team so dying, etc was not really a issue. But I suppose I have a few tales to tell. This is 3.0 btw 2nd Adventure. We all had a "introductory" adventure in pairs that would get us to level 2. So we has a party of 6 (1 of which was a NPC, our commander) Really good storyline, etc etc... we end up having to capture a enemy commander to get information on why orcs and gnolls are working together. (They had our small city state surrounded) So we get to a small captured town. Myself (ranger) and the party rogue go scout it out. We time the movements of the guards and located the commanders. We had the rest of the party take off their armor and with our help everyone got past the patrolls and to the church where they setup a command center. we climbed up and went in through the belltower. We took out the guards on the balcony and saw.... 15 orcs and 15 gnolls... and each had a commander. Not to mention we where in a town crawling with sorts of creatures... And we where in starter gear... Since the group consisted of a Paladin, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue and a Cleric, fighting looked to be the only option. We lost our NPC commander (6th level) but SOMEHOW we pulled through. The only reason we only fought 32 opponents was because we used a grappling hook and swung to the door and barred it, then defended it while the archers fired from the balcony. That was one of the hardest battles ever. We where laughing when the DM ended up with a CR that was off the charts. 2nd hardest battle was (not suprisingly) in a red dragon cave. After a very hard dungeon (that we only entered to free our paladin friend) we had a moment of respite before we entered the main cave. We used that opportunity to raise the half of the party that died. After that we climb up the last part of a 1000 foot shaft to enter the lair. The cleric remained behind to provide a point to return to for healing because the entire lair was a huge antimagic field. The melee's of the party and the rogue move as a team to face the dragon..... Except it was 2!!! Wyrm Red Dragons!!! 2 rounds later everyone was dead except for myself (Ranger/Divine Agent) and the party monk. The rogue was nowhere to be seen. We don't look too good eighter at that point so we decide to retreat to the cleric and heal up, then focus on 1 dragon at a time. Meanwhile the dragons snacked on the rogue that thought he was safe hidded in shadows... (it was his first dragon, so he didn't know lol) The dragons getting more confident decide to move out of the antimagic field and pick on us with spells and with breath attacks. The monk was thrown down the shaft so it was only me and the cleric left. At that point we had to listen to the freaking lamentations of the dead players on how hopeless it was etc etc. But we would not abandon our paladin player in a Epic version of stasisfield. Luckily one of the dragons attempted to crush us but failed, leaving us at melee. Harm - full round attack... 1 dragon down. then some energy substitution cold, firestorms forced the other dragon to move back into the antimagic field. The cleric used all his remaining spells to heal me up and only kept the spell "gate" he reserved to summon a Solar powerful enough to break the epic stasisfield. (he had to make a agreement with it lol) now at full HP's I move up and fought the dragon 1 on 1. I killed it with 4 hp's left... so both low as hell, we drag ourselves into the chamber with the dragonhoard where we see the shape of a GREAT WYRM RED DRAGON.... and thankfully the DM took pity on us at that point and storyline saved us... but I suppose the look on our faces was priceless to soften up the heart of a DM as tough as Mike. I suppose it's bad when we consider it a "win" if the cleric lives to rez us all... In the course of the campaign, I lost my cohort only to have her turn into one of the villains later. The cleric's wife was turned into a Banshee, The paladin's wife died of grief because he lost his 3 children to a Blue Dragon. The Rogue died permanently. The half orc fighter lost his mother to his Orc father. I had a great fate too... I eventually died to a trap laid by my cohort. It was Vampires so I was forced to fight against the party as a Vampire in the final battle. I suppose all those things are due to mistakes we made along the way... but still... I have a feeling our character need some serious therapeutic help. I guess on the plus side, the adventures where so hard that we leveled up fast just based on the encounter xp. We even got to early epic levels although we didn't have access to epic items.
-Shade- 07-13-05, 01:42 PM	Let me tell you all a story about a DM who's first campaign screwed my character over so much that I almost quit D&D on a more permanent basis. In fact, if I hadn't run into a stellar DM after this campaign, I would have considered all DM's to be Nazi bastards who deserve nothing more than to have their manuals thrown in a wood chipper, then paper mache'd together into an impossibly hard, tubelike shape, then shoved up some very uncomfortable places. The campaign started out with me playing a lvl 5 Cleric. I was unfortunately stuck with a half elf mercenary who was the greediest, most munchkin character in the entire world, a half orc mercenary just like him but less munchkiny, a wizard or two, and so on. The wizard twins were not that memorable. It was the mercs that were real bastards, for they were friends of the DM, while I was just friends with the player who played the half elf fighter (a friendship almost compromised due to this campaign). The DM wanted to try all sorts of strange new things. He had his cat race (I've only known one DM that didn't have their own homebrew cat race, which is the reason why I'LL NEVER MAKE OR USE ONE!!!!!!!!) whom were always giving us jobs. Then we had the mercenary half elf's father, who was really our main villain (annoying little prick... too melodramatic). Then there was Talon... another villain/hero whateveritis... he had alot of those. That annoyed me. The DM had a total obsession with evil characters who were just either misunderstood or not that 'evil', which meant he constantly gave good characters and organizations the shaft by making them look 'evil'. BTW, i was a good cleric. The campaign still had promise. Where did it all go wrong? Well, my first experience with the campaign involved party screwage sanctioned by the DM. As a DM I believe one has to encourage the party to work together and stay as a cohesive unit, or else the campaign falls apart. This DM? Constantly made things WORSE with the party. He would always drive wedges between the characters. They loved it... for it gave them leeway to do all sorts of messed up stuff. Where did that leave the cleric of good? To stick to his morals, and get screwed over. One example of this would be money. My characters were constantly poor because it was always the two mercs that would take care of money handling. They would always loot the corpses first, and distribute the gold... always taking more than their fair share of the cut, not giving proper cuts to everyone else, demanding loans from the other party members... and the DM allowed it. In fact, the DM made them the designated money handlers and corpse looters. I never once got to collect from a kill myself, even when I beat the other players to the punch by saying "I am checking this person's body for possessions". It was always, "No, the other two are doing it first." Then there was the time when we all got a pet NPC (essentially, a second character). I decided to make a monk character. A great character, her personality fleshed out, always helpful and kind. Not complaining the least bit about being screwed over by the party constantly because... she was a monk, she didn't need much in the way of gold or items. But then I had my first piece of bad news delivered... my planned proposal to set her up with the vow of poverty was nerfed. He thought it was too powerful. Nevermind the fact that the other characters were using much better equipment than my characters.... thanks to the DM... more on that later. The second characters were eventually phased out... others got to leave gracefully. A couple died heroic deaths. One even got to live. The half elf merc's player got to keep his... he is the party's thief/assassin that is not only totally evil... but makes the two mercs look like saints in comparison. For you see, the thief/assassin sold my monk into slavery. :shocked: Of course, the DM allowed it... even suggested it. So after constantly having my character question his own church (he had evidence that the church of Pelor was in fact a front for a very evil cult that wanted nothing but the corruption of the entire world... total BS), and after being treated as nothing more than an underpaid lackey and a portable medkit for the two mercs, I decided to quit my cleric in that campaign. I told them "See how much you like it when you don't have a cleric to constantly save your sorry butts." And with the DM's permission I made a fighter. Bad move... that just made things worse. For one, the DM then turned one of the players into a cleric (a half drow/celestial cleric... right... ). For another, the poverty that my cleric had to endure was sheer monetary decadence compared to my fighter. I spent most of my starting money equipping MY fighter with all new equipment... and for the first time I was on par with the two mercenary tanks in our party. First new encounter... rust dragon (a GM creation)... blasts me with its breath weapon... now i'm butt naked and near death in hostile territory with no way to be able to replace my equipment. That was also the first of the DM sanctioned "control your party through impoverishment and debt" by the two mercs (and one thief ), and by party it really meant ME! The half elf fighter made a deal with me... he'll buy new equipment for me if I pay him back with interest. So he bought... at the time of the campaign, weak magic equipment when everyone else was using much stronger stuff by this time, then charged an exorberant price for it all. Combined with the party's constant control over OUR money... I barely had enough to pay the interest. It wouldn't have been so bad... until the DM started enforcing the payments when I had to refuse, stating that I needed to save some of my money to upgrade my equipment so that I could kick more ass, keep up with the party, and thereby make more gold so that I could pay off my debt to my OWN PARTY!!!!!!!!!!! That wasn't the worse of it. DM and the two mercs... very tight buddies. The DM constantly gave them favours, such as magic items... but the one time that really set me off was a gladiatoral tournament. Our half elf merc joined... so did our half orc barbarian. I couldn't... didn't have enough money for the entrance fee... they wouldn't even loan me money to get in... the runner up prizes alone would have freed me from debt. The on the side illegal betting was my last hope. I was a NG fighter... but very desperate, so I made some bets. Safe bets. The bets that shouldn't have lost. So what does the DM do? He has me lose all my money, first by a fight where the underdog manages to fluke a win, then by a corrupt bettaker whom I couldn't kill to get my money back due to his burly and more powerful guards, my alignment, the bribed city guards, and the fact that my party wasn't the least bit interested in helping me (But the bettaker treated THEM well!). Therefore, I had no money to even win some gambling bets, while the rest of the party was winning on 10 to 1 odds constantly. :raincloud Then our half elf merc got into the final round... with our half orc barbarian. Guarenteed big payout.... of... 5 million gp... at lvl 13-14. The half elf fighter won. He was already disgustingly rich at this point... :nonono: But that wasn't all. The DM let him KEEP the money! Overcharged for a few magic items, sure, but he still had more cash than he deserved. The half elf merc didn't evenly distribute it, or even give us a little bit to help us out. He kept it all... Well, not exactly. At one point, my character's people were captured and hauled away by an evil, slavery nation (Thay, I believe). We tried all we could to save my character's people... but it just so happened that the DM made too many obstacles. Even our uberpowerful party couldn't fight off an entire slave company, much less a NATION, escape with hundreds of slaves while travelling for weeks through a hostile nation to get to safety, then hire a hell of alot of ships to haul them all there... ...unless I promised the half elf merc that I would pay for every cent someday. That included buying the slaves, bribes, permits to own the slaves, transportation, and resettlement. All in the tune of 1 million dollars. And mind you, the DM set it up so that this was the ONLY WAY TO SUCCEED! So I owed the merc for every gp paid out... with interest. The DM tried to balance things out once. The mercs were getting too powerful... and I was begging for even the slightest consession. So he decided to have a random weapon of uber power drop down, thereby realizing the destiny of a special and deserving character... Did I say special and deserving? I meant the stuffed in a corner, silent, unparticipating half drow/celestial who had her father drop from the sky, say some powerful, meaningful words about her destiny (exactly what the DM said, didn't even bother to do the speech, just said there was some high and mighty speech before he died. ). Umm... thanks. Give the cleric a powerful weapon... leave the ACTUAL impoverished character the shaft. Thank you. I appreciate that. But the final straw, the one that made me quit the campaign forever, was when my character died. It was against a 'Runic', his uber powerful custom made construct (he decided to nerf us when our keen weapons with the improved crit feat was a bit TOO powerful for him to handle... by sending nothing but constructs after us). I died, I went to heaven, because I was the only good and nice person ever! My DM's response when looking at my character sheet to see why I died so easily? "Why do you have such crappy equipment?" Why the :censored: do you think, you braindead son of a :censored: :censored: for :censored: sakes! Weren't you :censored: there?!?! Didn't you hear my complaints? Didn't you see how ungodly rich everyone else was?! Didn't you notice how the two mercs controlled the :censored: party?! :censored: sakes man, wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was the gist of what I said. At that point, I wanted my character to die, so I could start anew. Erase my debt to the party, get some decent equipment, and finally earn some respect. But no... the half elf merc complained that he would lose money and get 'nerfed' himself by having me gone. So I reached a compromise with the DM. I asked, "Could the party try to commune with me from the dead, then convince me to come back?". The DM allowed this, and had the party try to convince me to come join their conniving, backstabbing, greedy little unit. Their response? "Meat shield." (This was from the half drow/celestial cleric.) I think someone else said, off cuff, "Party b****.", but was drown out by everyone else's laughter. Everyone thought it was a great joke... except for me, who was sick of being jerked around by everyone. I decided that my character went to heaven, never to be seen again. Nope. DM raised him from the dead himself, gave him back to me. He didn't want me to make a new character in the middle of the night. :headexplo I would gladly sit aside, and just WATCH their silly exploits, because despite it all... they were funny and entertaining. Just don't put me through the constant hell of playing that ******* character. I quit at about 17th lvl, ending with close to the same equipment I was using at lvl 10, penniless, broken, under the yoke of two cruel mercenaries and a backstabbing assassin. Their campaign, since I was the only one that absolutely hated it, went on to epic levels. The half elf merc became more rich and powerful. He eventually got his money back from my character... he showed up in NPC form. Later on, my monk is going to return as an NPC to kick the thief/assassin NPC's ass. Everyone is looking forward to it to having the monk shove her epic level boot up the thief/assassin's behind, especially me. Ironically, I returned to another campaign run by the same DM months later. His style actually improved. My suggestions to him actually worked. He actually made the game fair. For that I salute him. There is no DM that is irredeemable. :) But as for that campaign, I will always remember it as a time of constant screwage. I was invited to join it at epic level this time... the sour feelings between myself and the DM were resolved though more campaigns and a begrudging respect for each other. All that was left was to confront the player that made my life miserable. So I asked him why he was so rotten to me, even though he was my friend. His reply? "It's just a game. I was playing my character. You were the one taking it personally." AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! :headexplo :banghead: I just about punched him right there and then. Stupid, oblivious dumb fart. D&D is for fun. You can't just think about yourself. There are other players involved, and they don't appreciate their fellow gamers screwing them over when they should all be getting along. Just for that, i'm going into the epic campaign to make their lives miserable. :schemes:
Always-Late 07-13-05, 01:50 PM	Everybody, I would like to like everybody to show their DM, even if it was one of the crappy DM's described above, to come and read about how not to DM. Or watch as everybody tells them their DMing is crap. Sweetest revenge. Please? I wouild love to see their reactions.
High Octane 07-13-05, 02:15 PM	These are the things I desperately try to avoid doing.
VarisTalnethalas 07-13-05, 04:50 PM	ooh I remember... I did have another DM... one that loves to play powerful NPC's in the party and bully them around. He had a knack for rolling nat 20's... a real talent. He could pull it off every othe roll... I wanted to make a goblin cleric, to try something different and got blasted by the DM's wizard as soon as I was in the party's sight. we fought a lich at 5th level when we had no magical equipment. oooh and dungeons... just thinking about them... traps traps traps.. we went through a entire session... and moved 90 FREAKING FEET!!!!!!!!!! There where traps upon traps, upon traps... every single step had to be done with a search for traps... every single item was "special" as in cursed, a intelligent item or some evil artifact.... this was a MINE!!!! people worked at that place until just recently kobolds showed up... but noo... we wake up liches, free demons, etc... and my all time favorite... we had a 7th level fighter in our party.. good player that had the misfortune of touching a sword (that of course had a powerful air elemental trapped inside), so he's stuck with it and only in controll 1/2 the time. anyways, a doppleganger shows up posing as a friend... well the friend died to a water trap so he was very suspicious. The "friend" walked closer to the fighter until he was at melee. The fighter didn't want to just attack him, so he didn't draw his weapon and asked him what's going on, and trying to find out if it's the real guy. DM goes, he get's to melee, takes out a dagger and stabs you in the throat... you die.... it was a suprise attack so he could pull it off... We where all WTF??? ok so he get's sneak attack damage, or catches him flat footed whatever.. but no instant death from a DAGGER! So the DM makes a few rolls.. and makes a final nod... yeah, I just rolled it... and he didn't make it.. I'm sorry but last I checked there where rules about this sorta thing. You know, coup de grace, death attack, etc. Whatever the case you get a save or just take some extra damage. Certainly it won't 1 shot a 7th level fighter at full HP. But no, no roll, no damage, no save, just DEATH. I got ****** and made a min/maxxed fighter. The DM then stopped early because he couldn't "deal" with my 5th level fighter. All I did was take great cleave.... and a 2h weapon.
pres_man 07-13-05, 06:38 PM	One of the most unfair things I ever did was make a player have his PC unload a heavy crossbow before he could store it in his pack. He was so upset, saying how he had played since first edition and nobody every had to unload crossbows when storing them and there was no way he could possibly allow himself to believe that I knew more about D&D crossbows then him, this being my first DMing experience and all. So I said, "Fine, you get bumped and it goes off and shoots you in the rump, take (rolls dice) 4 pts of damage.
Ulthwe 07-13-05, 07:53 PM	We once had a DM, he was new to the game but had a very cool imagination so we made him DM after a session or 4. He didn't really get the idea behind all the rules but the story was great. At one point tho we had to flee from the empire's finest since I had raped some innocent girl and took her to our boat, and the rest of the party threw her in the party cuz they didn't want any people to think wrong of us.. she was found on the shore a day later, dead ofcourse. So we had to flee and the only way we could do that was through the main sewers that led outside the great wall. We were in the shittunnel for an entire session. Including us nearly dying of suffocation, drowning in poo and the grand finale meeting the ogres at the end of the tunnel. that lived there in their little house. at that point we got sick of one of our party members and he happened to play an elf sorceress, we raped her and let the ogre boy have a go at her to, next day she commited suicide. All of this was out of frustration at the entirely lame session. This took about 6hours in reallife...
Witchblade 07-13-05, 08:05 PM	Hehe Ulthwe, I remember she tried to kill herself by casting Fireball on herself. She almost got us killed there, you had to pin her after that of course. Somehow she got free (were you done? :P ) and started torching the place with Fireballs. My character (who didn't take part in the raping, as a Monk) then used his stunning fists to beat her unconscious and you let the ogre do her again. Yeah we were an evil party. :D
Vrykolas2k 07-13-05, 08:10 PM	Hehe Ulthwe, I remember she tried to kill herself by casting Fireball on herself. She almost got us killed there, you had to pin her after that of course. Somehow she got free (were you done? :P ) and started torching the place with Fireballs. My character (who didn't take part in the raping, as a Monk) then used his stunning fists to beat her unconscious and you let the ogre do her again. Yeah we were an evil party. :D This isn't funny.
Kanesuke 07-13-05, 08:11 PM	Not sure rape of any sort should really be in a campaign...Be evil by all means, but this may be going too far...
20goingon1232 07-14-05, 05:42 AM	Everybody, I would like to like everybody to show their DM, even if it was one of the crappy DM's described above, to come and read about how not to DM. Or watch as everybody tells them their DMing is crap. Sweetest revenge. Please? I wouild love to see their reactions. Does the phrase "spitting, blathering berserk" mean anything to you? :D I told him to his face: I won't waste my time playing with a bad DM that forces his players to do things in character because of some misbegotten idea of that is what the character is. *I* created the character. I said he would be modeled on so-and-so, not IS so-and-so. *Name suppressed* over there is a better DM than you will ever be (*Name suppressed* is a first time DM that don't know half the rules, 90% of the spells and ANY loophole/hulking-hurler type builds, and who thought being purely Core will save his rear from nightmare scenarios, poor guy). I have played 3 campaigns with you. I have given you every conceivable chance. Not only are your campaigns boring, with DMPCs hogging all the limelight and all your cute little virginal girls doing everything and knowing everything, I would probably find more fun getting lowered into a meat grinder feet first. *Name suppressed* please call me when it is your turn to DM again. I'll see you then. Ulthwe, Witchblade - it is one thing to PLAY an Evil character. It is quite another to ENJOY it this much (particularly rape and murder without a cause). You two need to see a shrink before your local newspaper starts reporting bodies of dead animals and babies being found rape, tortured and murdered. Don't give me the "we were only roleplaying" excuse. From your short conversation here, where you two are still snickering about the incident, it is obvious where your real moral alignment lie.
Callista 07-14-05, 08:01 AM	*shrugs* Many people who like playing Evil generally have the tendency to do crazy things themselves; but often times, RP gives them a safe outlet for it. I have a friend like that, actually... I think sometimes, without D&D to safely act out her pyromania, she'd probably have torched something (or someone) important by now. My DMs... Hmm, well, the worst things they've ever done to us would be a tendency to railroad (a little), and giving us fights that are lower than our CR and have no chance to kill us, making the game a bit boring (a fault they've gotten over). Guess I've been lucky.
Kelwyn 07-14-05, 08:32 AM	One of our DMs didnīt told me that the orb that my Wizard in the RttTEE Adventure wore was a intelligent minor artifact (Orb of Silvery Death or something) and protected me from various things from which I was killed while I had the orb with me. Guess thats coming back to him sometime ;)
Jarric 07-14-05, 11:23 AM	One of the most unfair things I ever did was make a player have his PC unload a heavy crossbow before he could store it in his pack. He was so upset, saying how he had played since first edition and nobody every had to unload crossbows when storing them and there was no way he could possibly allow himself to believe that I knew more about D&D crossbows then him, this being my first DMing experience and all. So I said, "Fine, you get bumped and it goes off and shoots you in the rump, take (rolls dice) 4 pts of damage. How is that unfair?
pres_man 07-14-05, 04:02 PM	Because I had the gall to inject a bit of realism into the game. As a first time DM I should have bowed before his superior experience. Don't slip on the sarcasm. :D I think this guy was already pretty upset because I had set up the party to meet a dragon that was way out of their league and hadn't intended on killing anyone, just taking all of their money (but leaving their gear). His original character decide the best way to handle the situation was to start firing magic missiles at her. After getting most of the party to surrender and throw down their money, I finally breathed on him and melt him down. I hadn't intended it but heck he was playing like an idiot.
theif lord 07-14-05, 10:14 PM	well my one DM made us fight a great wyrm blue dragon at level 18 i think, not much of a challenge, but no matter what my char did or n e one but the paladin did, we couldent hurt it so me being a rogue/theif acrobat at the time tumble past the dragon into the hoard and find this odd lance that says dragon lance written on the side, needless to say the paladin (radin of the justice) got it and then we killed it this campaing was built for only one char and pretty much benefitted one char and then he forced me to make a role to steal from the party. he is no longer dm but i still make a point to always steal his share of the loot
BOK2 07-15-05, 04:54 AM	Once, while looting the BBEG's lair, my bard came upon a pedestal with a fist sized ruby on top. My bard was worried about traps so he casted magehand to magically bring the gem to him. The spell, for some unknown reason, failed and my bard was forced to touch the ruby. Thats when the DM called for a Fort save to see if my bard was able to resist the gem's power... I said ok and rolled a natural 18. The DM smiled and said that I made my save but before I could rejoice he told me that my bard fell to the floor, dead, with the ruby clasped in his hands :eek: . I asked the DM why my bard died when he made his save, He told me that something much, much worst would have happened if I failed :confused: . After the rest of the party raised me, I learned that the ruby was now "bonded" to me and that I could use it's powers to create an undead army (first used it on a rat, which turned into a rat zombie). The thing is my bard's chaotic good and I wanted him to stay that way, so I never used the "overly powerful and evil" ruby again... :)
20goingon1232 07-15-05, 08:43 AM	These are the things I desperately try to avoid doing. I told my players my tale of woe and the previous campaigns of navel-gazing. They are now under strict orders from me to beat me with sofa cushions/pillows if I even THINK about straying in that direction. They play at my place and there are at least 7 sofa pillows within their easy reach at all times. I'll be damned if I become like that DM.
Zorminster 07-15-05, 11:41 AM	YECH! there is a wealth of knowledge on things not to do here. Can't think of any horrible stories off the top of my head except one i committed lol. I don't remember everything clearly as iti was some time ago so dont ask why they were there, or stuff like that- im tellin ya everything i remember :P Okay, so the group is adventuring through a cave and theres this sorceress/bard chic chilling out down there. They were hunting her for some reason and were hacking and slashing through any minions they came across. Now, apparently even though i made this a zerg campaign (you know, lots of low leveled baddies) They were utterly destroying everything and hadnt had a near death encounter or anything. So i was hellbound to at least put one of them on the ground (this is drawing into about the 7th hour of play that theyve not been really challenged) So the sorceress now has a mighty nifty rod of empowered fireball charges (2). They finally see her in an illuminated chamber and she has something like 9 orc / hobgoblin guards that should have been pretty worthy advesaries. Now quick thing about me- if i dm [rarely] i dont stifle my players- if they want to try some fantastic feat like your about hear about i let them. I make it conditional if possible and they seem to really enjoy it- adds alot of RP. Well, this rod i gave like a round activiation time to make it fair (read as: give dramatic roleplaying through lots of incantations pointing and lighting variances). The fighter (and most experienced player of the group) wanted to be heroic. "I am making a charge attempt on her to sunder the rod." 'There are 2 large orcs in scale mail and a hobgoblin between you guys- *look at projected run path* they all are gunna get AOO on you' "Okay...hmm... I attempt to stiff arm them [we used overrun rules] to get through and get to her." *parties eyes light up, shouts of heroism and stupidity arise and i look at the table* 'Alright, begin your charge- You approach the first large orc- you will pass him by on the right side, just in range - you extend your arm and , roll *clack clack* *19*, knock him on his butt. You continue running and are quick approaching the hobgoblin- you will pass him on the left, roll *clack clack* *20*, you shoulder him a good one and get past. The last orc is standing directly in your path, arms outstretched in defiance and feet planted- hes dropped his weapons and will attempt to grapple you. *some dice roll- i throw a few extras at intervals for dramatic effect* ..........you start running up his chest, he topples over and you give him a good boot to the face- you leap at the sorceress weapon raised high- roll.' *clack clack* *20* 'son of a.....' "WOOO HOOO" 'erm...she dodges. and fireball goes off at your party. Im rolling damage *roll* *1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 3,* Son of a!@!@!#!@"#!"@ That was supposed to seriosuly threaten someone! You all take 10 damage. Surely someone waivers... MAge?' "Nah man, im good- i still got 5 hps" 'I hate this group.' They still haven't let me live that one down but they all thought it was really funny that even screwing the system i couldnt kill any of them lol. They've forgiven me and not yet returned the erm...'favor' EDIT: For readability i spaced the dialouge.
Radijs 07-16-05, 06:30 PM	Hmmm well there's this DM I am slowly getting more and more frustrated about. He's overall a good DM but he tends to be very forgetful. Our party rogue has rapidshot and manyshot and tends to use them together. So she rolls her 4 attacks for the round and the DM says that she cant use both feats together! A discussion follows and I know all the steps they go through because the discussion has happened 2 times before already and in both cases the DM eventually said that it was okay for the rogue to use them together. This time the DM is less amiable and no longer allows the feats to be used together. She was allowed to replace manyshot with another feat (which became ranged disarm). Anyway later in the same encounter my cleric casts hold person to shut a bard up and the next round I move up to the bard and declare that I will Coup de grace him. The DM immediately gives the bard a free extra will save to break the spell. I rolled a threat and a crit so the bard wound up dead anyway but still I am a bit miffed by this sudden decision. Another DM who is running a swashbuckler campaign (loads of flashy over the top stuff) which is on the whole really cool but I have this feeling he is beginning to favor the barbarian in the party. The DM encourages the players to be flamboyant and the barbarian does this in combat a lot. This has resulted in bonus attacks for the barbarian on several occasions Though it usually was just one extra attack every once in a while. But lately its been getting worse and last session our DM allowed the barbarian to charge forward and then preform a whirlwind attack even though the barbarian doesn't have the feat or even the prereq's for it.
Kadasbrass 07-17-05, 01:49 AM	And along along I thought I've gone through bad DMs. Alot of you've had wrose, but hey let me go over some. I've gone throught the Player DM who likes to make high level demigods who join the party... Hard to have fun when anything that should be a challange is not even role playable encounter when the groups NPC not only has the ability to kill hordes or creatures, but the ability to rezz them and do it again :yuck: The only thing worth doing was trying to find out what we could do to :censored: things up for the DM (and we're talking about a group effort). We let another person try to DM once, and I tried to avoid eye contact with everyone else as it became a shouting match between the DM and someone else over the rules. They weren't trying to listen to each other, and to a large degress the DM just wanted to spite the player. The main problem stems from the main DM for our group, whom has slowly over time lost his focus. His campaign has grown worse and slower, and duller over time, treasure is non existence (limited to 900 gp at 10th level), very little xp for a session that lasted from 8pm to 6 am in the morning, not even Role play xp, and at level 10 during the course of nearly an month in the campaign (4 sundays) I faced 5 kobolds and a small herd of kobold zombies (okay as a psionic kobold the zombies were annoying since it took every point I had to kill them) and two other players (didn't kill just fought). He also likes to somehow hit people with Level adjustments by hitting them with templets, werewolf, vampire, he's failed to hit us with some of the undead ones from the book of undead. He doesn't even enforce rules to keep players from figthing each other, no alignment resistions, and when you have 7 to 9 people there your going to get almost 7 to 9 different alignments. The end result is 2 or 3 different groups of PCs in the same game. To make matters worse he to some degress encourges the in game figthing, and the players don't mind since now they can get more xp then normally granted by the DM. After figthing the zombies from earlier, he has a fresh lvl 10 barbarian (another player) figth me. I'm a 10th level Psion/Rogue Kobold, I have 1 hp, 7 temp hp, 2 power points. Guess who just got xp as if they had just fought a level 10 encounter. I stopped going, what ever spark I had for the game died at that point, going to something for 8 hours of nothingness is a big waste of time. I can't find another group, the only other group in town that does RPG is a star wars one. The only other choice is to DM myself but then for the same set of people as normal, but like I said above I have no more enjoy with the game for the time being. I tried DMing for them, I try not to be the bad guy, I give them the xp they want (or in this case been starving for) and the magic items (I've even given them more then whats suggested in the DMG) and I plan ahead so we can play in a timely manner, nor do I throw at them tons of super easy stuff to just fill time. But do I get any thanks? No, I perform a community service and just get taken for granted. And when I want to play something different, anything different: risk, MtG, starcraft, monoploy, they go "Don't want to get the stuff" or "I can't win at that" or "Takes to long to play to play risk, lets play D&D instead" :headexplo and planing as a Dm doesn't take time? <Kadasbrass looks around as if he doesn't know where he's at or why he's here> Boy I got off topic in the end there, but for some odd reason I feel better...
20goingon1232 07-17-05, 03:09 AM	Radjis - Ummm.... Hate to tell you, bud. But according to RAW, your DM is correct, I'm pretty sure. You CANNOT use Rapid Shot and Multishot at the same time because Rapid Shot requires a full round action. Otherwise, you might as well not use Rapid Shot and use Multishot for your entire attack sequence (which would at least DOUBLE your number of attacks without an extra -2 to every attack, and is totally against the rules). Ranged Disarm is just.... wrong..... In your other campaign, just declare you will do Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon using the enemies' heads instead of bamboo. If he tries to nerf you, point out what he let the Barb do and insist you be allowed to do what you just said. If he still tries to say no, calmly grab your stuff and walk out. Don't say anything, don't look angry. Just walk out as if you were going to the corner supermarket. Kadasbass - Sounds like you got the same DM as I did (with the uber demigod NPCs). My sympathies on that. Walking out was the correct thing to do. Good for you! However, you won't get any sympathies from me for wanting the players to worship you when you DM. DM for fun, not for the accolades. If you cannot do that, you might as well don't DM. I find those people that DM for the accolades invariable end up being terrible DMs because they get frustrated when the players don't praise them with every other breath and so decide to "punish" them.
Kadasbrass 07-17-05, 11:19 PM	The DM with the demigod NPC was only allowed to DM that campaign twice before we hanged it out to dry. The person only DMs once in a blue moon but somehow fails at it everytime. (may of not made it clear, but I talked about three different DMs, since half of us in our group have DM'd at lest once) I don't want worship. A little thanks and the chance to do something else for a change all I would want.
speeblefreak 07-17-05, 11:58 PM	One DM I saw hit a group of 1st and 2nd-level characters with a creature of his own making that had an 8d8 breath weapon. The group still hasn't forgiven him.
D. Omega 07-20-05, 03:33 PM	:censored: While it can't possibly compare with some of these horror stories, I figured I would post my own experiences with an incompetent DM. For starters, this guy was about 7 years older than any of us (we were around 14 at the time), had dropped out of high school when he was the only 16 year old in the seventh grade :rolleyes: , still lived at home, and had no sense of ambition or even general direction for his life. He was the very first DM I ever played under, and I'm just glad he didn't poison the game for me. He some methods of operation I absolutely loathed, like: -- Having us constantly monitored by a supreme, omnipotent entity so originally named 'The Stranger' that, he claimed, had assassinated EVERY DEITY IN EVERY POSSIBLE PANTHEON, without so much as breaking a sweat, despite actually being a LAWFUL GOOD SILVER DRAGON (which he insisted was cool enough to be CG...). -- Keeping us in line by bullying our characters with this stupid god-killer or threats of expulsion. -- Using inane, random rules he determined on the fly that varied from session-to-session. -- Preventing inter-party conflict by still letting players rip each other off in any way imaginable as long as no one got (physically) hurt. -- Using physical force when confronted with logical opposition to his railroading tactics. Ex: When he tried to use Sleep on my Elf Ranger, and I told him it wouldn't work (I didn't even say it defiantly, just brought it to his attention), he had the Mind Flayer mysteriously vanish, replaced by his LG Silver Dragon NPC, who, with one tail sweep, smeared us into the gravel. No attack rolls, no damage dice, just pure egomania. Then he revealed it was an illusion by the Mind Flayer, saying, and I quote, "See what happens when you question me?" -- He didn't even have a plot or a map, just random encounters in no reasonable order. -- He tried (and failed HORRIBLY) to inject 2e and even 1e into a 3e game with absolutely no conversions or tweaking. He once played a COMPLETELY Munchkinized Githyanki Psychic Warrior who somehow turned into a greay wyrm gold dragon, grappled my character who was still in dragon form, threw me at a wall with ONE HAND (despite me being his own exact dimensions), and accelerated me to terminal velocity, splattering me. He did all that in ONE ROUND WITHOUT PICKING UP A SINGLE :censored:-ing DIE!!!! THEN, my friend and I decided to joint-DM a quest, in which he wanted to play a CN Drow 'Mage / Thief'... :rolleyes: He then bullied our other player, playing a cleric. He would call me more than my girlfriend (at least once, sometimes twice, a day) and ask to come over. He would eat food, and drink, and only once paid his share for pizza. He also almost let the three of our kittens he was watching starve. The came back reeking to high heaven and nothing but skin-and-bones. He could also never get a ride home, so we had to take him... Eventually I just stopped all contact with him, and I've moved on with my D&D life. Much more happy for that fact. All my friends I game with hated him long before I realized how much I did.
Vrykolas2k 07-20-05, 05:32 PM	Because I had the gall to inject a bit of realism into the game. As a first time DM I should have bowed before his superior experience. Don't slip on the sarcasm. :D I think this guy was already pretty upset because I had set up the party to meet a dragon that was way out of their league and hadn't intended on killing anyone, just taking all of their money (but leaving their gear). His original character decide the best way to handle the situation was to start firing magic missiles at her. After getting most of the party to surrender and throw down their money, I finally breathed on him and melt him down. I hadn't intended it but heck he was playing like an idiot. A crossbow could have a safety, ya know. As for the rape posts... I wonder if some epople realize that these types of things give role-players a bad name, and provide amunition for various religions fundamentalists... and for good reason.
da beast 07-21-05, 12:04 AM	I (as a DM) never enforce rule 0 (The one that says the DM is always right)... Plus during my first campagin I told my players to beat me with lead pipes if I did...
Lao, Ninja of the Dragon 07-21-05, 12:42 AM	He also almost let the three of our kittens he was watching starve. The came back reeking to high heaven and nothing but skin-and-bones. If that happened recently, press charges. That is horrible.
Jager Mage 07-21-05, 02:41 AM	I use rule 0, but I try to only use it to benefit players, to add a sense of cinematics (which most of the time goes over well), or if not doing it would utterly screw the plot. Like if the exalted character breaks the evil sword, which is the only way he's going to get into the realm of the unspeakable evil to destroy it, a question comes up....what does he do?
Salla 07-21-05, 03:06 AM	I'm taking a different tack on unfairness than many other posters here. My 'unfair' DM is making things far too easy on the group. An enemy 'boss' wizard attacks 20th level characters with Magic Missiles. Not Empowered, or Maximized, or anything ... just 5 Magic Missiles. Opponents roll over and tell us everything we want to know, including things that it makes no sense for them to know. We frequenly are forced to travel with a number of NPCs, who do everything for us, or one NPC of triple our average party level. My personal favorite softball play was in a sci-fi game. Our little 'crack commando team' (of 1st level characters, so evidently he meant 'a commando team on crack') delivers a shipment to a somewhat shady party, and promptly get beset upon by 3 warships. Now, for a comparison here, our little freighter was being attacked by 3 ships about three times as big, so we ran. We took a little fire, but in an attempt to lessen our mass and maybe provide a little cover, we dump our garbage. So far, so good, right? A chunk of our trash (of negligible mass, compared to their ship) punctures the engine (which is in the *back*of a ship that has to be built to withstand micrometeor impacts), and blows it up, damaging a second ship and making the third retreat ... all this determined without a die touched.
Vrykolas2k 07-21-05, 02:14 PM	I (as a DM) never enforce rule 0 (The one that says the DM is always right)... Plus during my first campagin I told my players to beat me with lead pipes if I did... If the DM was always right, he'd write his own damned game... that's how I see it, anyway. Why bother buying anyone else's books, after all... Most of the worst GMs I've ever had were the type who thought he or she was always right.
Salla 07-21-05, 05:42 PM	If the DM was always right, he'd write his own damned game... that's how I see it, anyway. Why bother buying anyone else's books, after all... Most of the worst GMs I've ever had were the type who thought he or she was always right. Much of this thread proves that GMs are not always right. :)
SonsOfKyuss 07-21-05, 06:58 PM	A few years ago I was playing a Shadowrun game and got screwed pretty bad by the DM. At char creation I bought a buddy (equivilant of a cohort, but doesn't adventure usually) who was a Yakuza Boss, mainly as a plot hook so we could have somebody we trusted who might be in a position to give us some shadowruns to accomplish. So my Yak buddy gives us our first mission as a shadowrunning team. Our mission is to break into some R&D facility for some big corp and steal something, I can't remember what. We get in through the first layer of defenses pretty easy and we are kind of surprised by this but keep going. It turns out this complex is filled with Aliens, like the ones in the movie of the same name, and all the guards have gone to respond to them. So every time we kill one of these things we lose half our gear to acid spray (not cool) but luckily since it was an R&D facility we were able to replace some of the stuff we lost. Eventually things get too crazy and we try to abort the mission. Suddenly all the rooms and hallways we had cleared as we were coming in are full of Aliens and, oh yeah, the queen is now chasing us as well. By the time we get close to the exit just about everybody is wounded, nobody is happy, and we are all feeling pretty outmatched with our first level characters. But of course we don't get out because the queen is suddenly in front of us. Luckily, or so we thought, somebody gets really lucky with a grenade launcher and takes her out before the fight can even really start. So what happens? Pretty much everybody but me is killed by a giant acid splash. I guess it wasn't such a lucky shot after all. I only survived because I made my char to be fast, fast, fast and I didn't worry about much else. So I walk out the building and here is a full battalion of UCAS ground troops waiting for me. I figure I'm dead until I see someone I recognize. Its my Yakuza boss buddy. But then I notice he is wearing fatigues. I turns out he is a UCAS field general. Not only that, but this is a military installation and he only sent in our team to see how the defenses held up, and to see if my team was worthy of working for the Yakuza. So yeah, half my party is dead, I find out my Yak boss "buddy" is ALSO a UCAS General and in our long friendship I never noticed this, and he basically cares so little about me that he decides to use our lives to test his defenses. So I'm not too happy. Actually, I'm more than a little beyond not happy. I declare that I am going to attack. DM says "Roll init", and I don't say anything because my init is pretty near the max possible for a cybered out 1st level char using standard creation rules. So me and these two sniper dudes roll init and tie. Since my base reaction was lower, I had to declare my action first, but the snipers got to resolve their actions before mine were resolved. So I declare that I am going to detonate my cranial area bomb, killing myself and hopefully my "buddy" in the process. I figure that there's not much they can do to stop that, since there's no external sign of me taking any action that they can react to. Nope, I get shot in the head. BUT, Shadowrun has this cool thing called karma that you can spend to save yourself in bad situations. So, to ensure my survival, I permenantly burn ALL of my karma pool to reduce the attack to a serious wound instead of a deadly wound. Then the other guy shoots me in the head too. Yeah, the first round knocked me off my feet and blew my brains accross the pavement, but that's not enough so they shoot me in the head again. So here's my unfair checklist: Way too deadly of mission for beginners - check DM arbitrarily turns the buddy he approved against me - check DM destroys pretty much all the equipment our characters are based around - check DM gives NPCs massively overpowered equipment at the last second - check DM rapes the rules in an attempt to kill me - check Yeah, to say the least, I thought it was pretty unfair. Oh yeah, one more thing. The next week, the dude flooded my sisters apartment with ****. She was nice enough to let us play there, but after we repeatedly told him not to use the bathroom he does it anyway and floods the place and REFUSES to help clean up. So I did what anybody else would do. I dragged the furniture he was storing in my garage out to my lawn and burned it.
Vrykolas2k 07-21-05, 11:13 PM	A few years ago I was playing a Shadowrun game and got screwed pretty bad by the DM. At char creation I bought a buddy (equivilant of a cohort, but doesn't adventure usually) who was a Yakuza Boss, mainly as a plot hook so we could have somebody we trusted who might be in a position to give us some shadowruns to accomplish. So my Yak buddy gives us our first mission as a shadowrunning team. Our mission is to break into some R&D facility for some big corp and steal something, I can't remember what. We get in through the first layer of defenses pretty easy and we are kind of surprised by this but keep going. It turns out this complex is filled with Aliens, like the ones in the movie of the same name, and all the guards have gone to respond to them. So every time we kill one of these things we lose half our gear to acid spray (not cool) but luckily since it was an R&D facility we were able to replace some of the stuff we lost. Eventually things get too crazy and we try to abort the mission. Suddenly all the rooms and hallways we had cleared as we were coming in are full of Aliens and, oh yeah, the queen is now chasing us as well. By the time we get close to the exit just about everybody is wounded, nobody is happy, and we are all feeling pretty outmatched with our first level characters. But of course we don't get out because the queen is suddenly in front of us. Luckily, or so we thought, somebody gets really lucky with a grenade launcher and takes her out before the fight can even really start. So what happens? Pretty much everybody but me is killed by a giant acid splash. I guess it wasn't such a lucky shot after all. I only survived because I made my char to be fast, fast, fast and I didn't worry about much else. So I walk out the building and here is a full battalion of UCAS ground troops waiting for me. I figure I'm dead until I see someone I recognize. Its my Yakuza boss buddy. But then I notice he is wearing fatigues. I turns out he is a UCAS field general. Not only that, but this is a military installation and he only sent in our team to see how the defenses held up, and to see if my team was worthy of working for the Yakuza. So yeah, half my party is dead, I find out my Yak boss "buddy" is ALSO a UCAS General and in our long friendship I never noticed this, and he basically cares so little about me that he decides to use our lives to test his defenses. So I'm not too happy. Actually, I'm more than a little beyond not happy. I declare that I am going to attack. DM says "Roll init", and I don't say anything because my init is pretty near the max possible for a cybered out 1st level char using standard creation rules. So me and these two sniper dudes roll init and tie. Since my base reaction was lower, I had to declare my action first, but the snipers got to resolve their actions before mine were resolved. So I declare that I am going to detonate my cranial area bomb, killing myself and hopefully my "buddy" in the process. I figure that there's not much they can do to stop that, since there's no external sign of me taking any action that they can react to. Nope, I get shot in the head. BUT, Shadowrun has this cool thing called karma that you can spend to save yourself in bad situations. So, to ensure my survival, I permenantly burn ALL of my karma pool to reduce the attack to a serious wound instead of a deadly wound. Then the other guy shoots me in the head too. Yeah, the first round knocked me off my feet and blew my brains accross the pavement, but that's not enough so they shoot me in the head again. So here's my unfair checklist: Way too deadly of mission for beginners - check DM arbitrarily turns the buddy he approved against me - check DM destroys pretty much all the equipment our characters are based around - check DM gives NPCs massively overpowered equipment at the last second - check DM rapes the rules in an attempt to kill me - check Yeah, to say the least, I thought it was pretty unfair. Oh yeah, one more thing. The next week, the dude flooded my sisters apartment with ****. She was nice enough to let us play there, but after we repeatedly told him not to use the bathroom he does it anyway and floods the place and REFUSES to help clean up. So I did what anybody else would do. I dragged the furniture he was storing in my garage out to my lawn and burned it. Some people need to be put to sleep... :yuck:
SonsOfKyuss 07-22-05, 01:16 AM	And when I want to play something different, anything different: risk, MtG, starcraft, monoploy, they go "Don't want to get the stuff" or "I can't win at that" or "Takes to long to play to play risk, lets play D&D instead" :headexplo and planing as a Dm doesn't take time? I feel your pain buddy, I definately feel your pain. Luckily my group IS willing to play a board game every once in a while when I don't want to try and run a game. I think my group is going to be playing Settlers of Catan for the next few weeks so I have a little time to regroup and restructure my campaign.
Saharzad 07-22-05, 01:22 AM	I've DMd for 6 or 7 years, and have had my share of memorable unfair deeds. I really enjoy one where I had a recurring assassin npc that continually harrassed the group. He managed to escape once, and ended up holding a grudge against one of the PCs because of it. The PCs moved on, and had just finished protecting their own city (which they rebuilt and basically ruled) from an army of demons. Huge siege with a full assortment of demons, over a hundred. They had their own army to help. Anyway, after narrowly defeating the demons, a magnificent triumph, they threw a big party. The PCs were being honored by the city, and during the party, the assassin showed up again, and killed the one whom he had a grudge against with a death attack arrow of greater dwarf slaying from a rooftop. It was glorious. They were high level, so he was easy to raise, but it was a nice parting shot to them after having thwarted a demon prince's army without any PC casualties. And one from the most recent campaign where I'm a PC. We like doing whatever we want, and the DM likes having things planned out far in advance. So they clash often. He made an abandoned cemetary off the road in the last adventure. Naturally, we checked it out. There's a 60 foot pitfall right outside the door of the obligatory center crypt. So my rogue fell. And I was fine, we healed and went in. At the bottom, there's a mummy. We run away after it hurts one of us. Back at the main road, we deliberate about the situation. Myself and two of the other characters (lvl 3s and 4) decide to go back. The other PC refuses to fight and waits for us. We figure we can take it. We go back in and get beaten up some more, and exit the crypt again. We fix ourselves up again, rest, etc. We're determined to beat the mummy. Our DM warns us, in his most stern voice, four times, that it is a crime to rob graves. We ignore him, and proceed with our plan. I try to reset the trap. He says I can't do that. I tell him I'm a rogue. Then I point out the exact rules for Disarm Trap where it mentions resetting traps. He lets me. So we lure his mummy out, it falls. It begins to climb up, and we're pelting it with arrows in the intermittent rounds. When it's almost up, we get the idea to have our VoP monk jump down on it, hopefully making it fall all the way to the bottom again, big damage. So we do, and he rules it's a bull rush. Suceed the bull rush check, by getting a natural 20. He's mad now, clearly he doesn't want us to cleverly defeat his mummy. So he rules the mummy has a bonus for being '4-legged or otherwise stable', cause he's bracing his legs and arms against the wall to climb. So the rush fails, our monk is stuck on top of the mummy, who doesn't budge. Then the mummy grapples him, puts him underneath him, and falls to the bottom of the pit, crushing the poor monk. The monk is rendered unconscious. The mummy finishes off the monk, and climbs up again. He makes it to the top, and then beats the hell out of the cleric. I'm hitting it over and over with my spiked chain, miraculously rolling high teens on all my attack rolls. Just after it knocks out the cleric, I manage to bring it down. Afterwards, when questioned as to why it took so much damage, the DM mentioned its damage reduction. Instead of any rudimentary flavor text, like, 'your blow appears to glance off', or 'the wound closes instantly up', we are left in the dark. That's not all. It's a week to get back to town, and the cleric has mummy rot. He's got 3 lesser restorations a day, and he manages to get back to town alive, rolling exceedingly well on his ability healing. Then the DM notices the abjuration/healing penalty that mummy rot imposes, rewinds time, makes him do caster checks for each spell, and he naturally turns to dust. Ugh.
Gurthoron 07-22-05, 09:48 AM	I've DMd for 6 or 7 years, and have had my share of memorable unfair deeds. I really enjoy one where I had a recurring assassin npc that continually harrassed the group. He managed to escape once, and ended up holding a grudge against one of the PCs because of it. The PCs moved on, and had just finished protecting their own city (which they rebuilt and basically ruled) from an army of demons. Huge siege with a full assortment of demons, over a hundred. They had their own army to help. Anyway, after narrowly defeating the demons, a magnificent triumph, they threw a big party. The PCs were being honored by the city, and during the party, the assassin showed up again, and killed the one whom he had a grudge against with a death attack arrow of greater dwarf slaying from a rooftop. It was glorious. They were high level, so he was easy to raise, but it was a nice parting shot to them after having thwarted a demon prince's army without any PC casualties. And one from the most recent campaign where I'm a PC. We like doing whatever we want, and the DM likes having things planned out far in advance. So they clash often. He made an abandoned cemetary off the road in the last adventure. Naturally, we checked it out. There's a 60 foot pitfall right outside the door of the obligatory center crypt. So my rogue fell. And I was fine, we healed and went in. At the bottom, there's a mummy. We run away after it hurts one of us. Back at the main road, we deliberate about the situation. Myself and two of the other characters (lvl 3s and 4) decide to go back. The other PC refuses to fight and waits for us. We figure we can take it. We go back in and get beaten up some more, and exit the crypt again. We fix ourselves up again, rest, etc. We're determined to beat the mummy. Our DM warns us, in his most stern voice, four times, that it is a crime to rob graves. We ignore him, and proceed with our plan. I try to reset the trap. He says I can't do that. I tell him I'm a rogue. Then I point out the exact rules for Disarm Trap where it mentions resetting traps. He lets me. So we lure his mummy out, it falls. It begins to climb up, and we're pelting it with arrows in the intermittent rounds. When it's almost up, we get the idea to have our VoP monk jump down on it, hopefully making it fall all the way to the bottom again, big damage. So we do, and he rules it's a bull rush. Suceed the bull rush check, by getting a natural 20. He's mad now, clearly he doesn't want us to cleverly defeat his mummy. So he rules the mummy has a bonus for being '4-legged or otherwise stable', cause he's bracing his legs and arms against the wall to climb. So the rush fails, our monk is stuck on top of the mummy, who doesn't budge. Then the mummy grapples him, puts him underneath him, and falls to the bottom of the pit, crushing the poor monk. The monk is rendered unconscious. The mummy finishes off the monk, and climbs up again. He makes it to the top, and then beats the hell out of the cleric. I'm hitting it over and over with my spiked chain, miraculously rolling high teens on all my attack rolls. Just after it knocks out the cleric, I manage to bring it down. Afterwards, when questioned as to why it took so much damage, the DM mentioned its damage reduction. Instead of any rudimentary flavor text, like, 'your blow appears to glance off', or 'the wound closes instantly up', we are left in the dark. That's not all. It's a week to get back to town, and the cleric has mummy rot. He's got 3 lesser restorations a day, and he manages to get back to town alive, rolling exceedingly well on his ability healing. Then the DM notices the abjuration/healing penalty that mummy rot imposes, rewinds time, makes him do caster checks for each spell, and he naturally turns to dust. Ugh. Out of curiousity, is your DM the guy who posted the "Vow of Poverty/Vow of Non Violence" or whatever its called on the DMs area? Because that person was mentioning a VOP/VONV monk character who was involved in looting tombs. Even if you are not, a LG monk should not be graverobbing, and the player should be smacked across the head. And the DM had every right to make the encounter difficult for you. Maybe if you had succeeded all the characters would have undergone alignments changes, and your monk would be screwed. Maybe hes better off dead. Anyway, bad idea on your parties side IMO.
Nitneuq Onitnarat 07-22-05, 09:52 AM	See my thread about losing my limbs? The guy that did that was a DMPC of ten times my level. He did congratulate me on staying in character through it all and being a good sport though.
Zorminster 07-22-05, 11:39 AM	dms who deem [nearly all] doors unbreakable. just because theyre barred on the other side. Even though the DMG has very clear rules laid out for such a case. (breaks door, leave bar hanging) There were 4 barred doors and surprise surprise- we couldnt pick lock (how we discovered they were barred), so we unhinged them. And still couldnt open them. So we attempted to break them. Strong wooden door hardness:5 hps:20 break DC:23 Damage: 13 'you put a small nick in the door' (that brings it to 12- nearly 1/2 its damage...) Damage: 8 'you put another small nick in the door' (9) Damage: 4 'glance off' Damage: 6 'you ding it a little' (8) Damage: 13 'you nick it a little more' (0) So we decided we couldnt just break it down so i tried to strength rupture it- roll and I got lucky enough to actually hit a 20. Str +3 = 23. Shouldve ruptured the door and left the bar hanging.... and on... and on.... and on....
CalculatedTHAC0 07-22-05, 01:00 PM	Ut-Napishtim, that suicide thing, you aren't the only one, i've done the exact same thing, some Dm's seriously don't think things through, my dm back then was so shocked that he actually apologized several times Sandaa and Ut-Napishtim, I was playing once with a power-tripping DM (in 2nd ed) who REALLY upset one of the other players so much that the player said, "My character stabs himself in the chest and kills himself." The DM said, "Okay, make an attack roll." :eek: The sad thing was that the player was young and quiet, and he did make an attack roll, and he rolled a 2. DM said, "You miss." I thought there was going to be a fight right then and there! It was the last time we all played D&D together.
20goingon1232 07-23-05, 07:16 AM	That was the wrong response. The correct response would have been: That was the last time we played D&D with that particular DM. :D
Valgaav 07-23-05, 09:37 AM	That was the wrong response. The correct response would have been: That was the last time we played D&D with that particular DM. :D okay, thank you for that. we needed that.
High Octane 07-23-05, 01:02 PM	Sandaa and Ut-Napishtim, I was playing once with a power-tripping DM (in 2nd ed) who REALLY upset one of the other players so much that the player said, "My character stabs himself in the chest and kills himself." The DM said, "Okay, make an attack roll." :eek: The sad thing was that the player was young and quiet, and he did make an attack roll, and he rolled a 2. DM said, "You miss." I thought there was going to be a fight right then and there! It was the last time we all played D&D together. Bwahahahaha! I played with a DM where we had to kill ourselves (bizarro world, long story our characters didnt actually die) and I said I stab myself through the heart and he gave me an autokill. The other guy just said "I kill myself". The DM is rather uptight (good DM, but...) so he said "Aright, roll a 20 sided, dont get a 1." Guess what happened. Laughs all around and the DM explained that he wasnt SPECIFIC with his killing of himself so he just gave it a roll. We all tried to figure out how he failed that. Anyway, he retried and succeeded and we got on with out advanture. Rolling for suicide is stupid. If a DM asks for a roll just say "I TAKE 20!!"
new D&D player 07-23-05, 02:23 PM	whats dm????????? :(
Lao, Ninja of the Dragon 07-23-05, 06:36 PM	whats dm????????? I hope you are being sarcastic. How can you play D&D and not know what a DM is? A DM is a dungeon master.
new D&D player 07-23-05, 06:39 PM	i knew it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i havent played the game yet i just got it............... :eek:
Valgaav 07-23-05, 06:49 PM	On the whole Suicide thing: "You botch. regain 5 HP."
new D&D player 07-23-05, 07:11 PM	suicide thing//// :confused:
Radijs 07-23-05, 07:17 PM	New player, a word of advice intended as helpful and not rude in any way: Look around the forums for a little while, read the threads before you post and ask about every little thing. The suicide thing refers to several people who had their characters commit suicide over in game reasons caused by terrible DM's.
new D&D player 07-23-05, 07:18 PM	:invasion: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: other army::::::: :surrender
new D&D player 07-23-05, 07:21 PM	I KNOW i read EVERY thing in this forum but i fogot that one :P
new D&D player 07-23-05, 07:32 PM	moments later min the smiley war ..my side did not accept there surrender :invasion: MUHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :ghosted:
new D&D player 07-23-05, 07:39 PM	oh no reinforcements!!!!!set the barraciades!! mages ready fire!!!! defende the castle!!! battle music please!!! :rimshot: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :mage: :mage: /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!:
new D&D player 07-23-05, 07:42 PM	dunt dun daaaaaaa weeeee wiiiinnnnn!!!! :fight!: :fight!: :mage: ///////// / ///// / /////// :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted:
new D&D player 07-23-05, 07:46 PM	we win drinks all around!! ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / / :pint: / / / / /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
xlawedjeanne 07-23-05, 07:50 PM	when i made a player roll and succeed a dc, so he could stop and get food while we were playing (we were playing in mcdonalds =/).
Ulthwe 07-23-05, 08:16 PM	New D&D player would you please stop spamming this thread. And not start spamming any other thread!
new D&D player 07-23-05, 08:57 PM	*** of i was being funny and i wasnt advertising anything so i wasnt sapmming
new D&D player 07-23-05, 08:58 PM	screw this dumbass thread i am not talking here again
Lao, Ninja of the Dragon 07-24-05, 01:21 AM	You were spamming. That made no since. no more spam for you. Anyway my Dm wanted to have raptorans, but on seeing a picture of them said they were just avariel clones. I made a presentation on how they were not avariels and he went back to his original plans on having them in. He found the perfect place too. I felt kind of guilty at first but then he read the RoW and said he would have put them back in eventually. What a waste of time and effort. :rolleyes:
Timlagor 07-24-05, 04:52 AM	If the DM was always right, he'd write his own damned game... that's how I see it, anyway. Why bother buying anyone else's books, after all... Most of the worst GMs I've ever had were the type who thought he or she was always right. Just thought I'd mention that the very best games I'veplayed were entirely homebrew (rules system world -everything)
High King Tigernmas 07-24-05, 07:30 AM	(I was DM at this point) DM-'He turns into a dragon' P-'What?!' DM-'He breathes acid at you' P-'WHAT?!' DM-'You have 2 HP left' P-'YOU BASTARD!'
cmrscorpio 07-24-05, 02:12 PM	I was a Cleric in a party with a fighter and a rogue. The *3* of us were level 13 and we had to go to a dragon's lair and retrieve something for a wizard. 1st encounter: 2 Iron Golems. Iron Golems are CR 13, so 2 of them would represent a Encounter Level 15. 2nd encounter: A lich and a vampire. Lich killed me in the first round and dropped the rogue to single digits with a friggin horrid wilting. The fighter picked up my body and she and the rogue high tailed it out of there, but not before the fighter took a level of energy drain from the vampire who was able to appear in front of her. We later found out the the Lich was a level 15 Wizard (for a total CR of 17) and the vampire was a fighter/shadowdancer (for a total CR of 17), making it an Encounter Level 19. Needless to say, I cried foul. DM said he was sure that there could have been some way to beat it. I asked him how. He said he was sure that there was some way to do it. I asked him if there was some secret thing that we missed or forgot to do. He said no.