Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CrashtheStyx 04-02-07, 04:34 PM	Vassal of Bahamut PrC in Exalted Deeds requires a character to single handedly slay a juvenile or higher level red dragon. Lets assume that your character is a lvl 8-10 heavy armor wearing melee class. What would you do to slay the juvy red (CR 10)? What advantages would you take? Tactics? Buffs you'd have your party give you beforehand? Have fun, be creative, let the ideas flow!
Nakat 04-02-07, 04:52 PM	Unless the dragon didn't have wings you lose, as it's likely going to just fly away and breathe if you start winning. If you can fly, you can't keep up with it, and it still wins, so a level 8-10 melee, heavy armor class can't do much of anything meaningful solo.
Prator_the_Legendary 04-02-07, 04:59 PM	Trap it in its cave, make yourself fire resistant by any means you can, and have the mage cast Globe of Invulnerablilty on you. Congrats, the dragon can't hurt you with anything except melee attacks and can't fly away.
Sareld 04-02-07, 04:59 PM	Yeah, its ability to fly will be your doom. Perhaps a spell storing weapon that has a Bestow Curse spell ready, and if it hits, declare that the curse negates its ability to fly. Alternatively, you could use a Hold Monster to similar effect. If you dont have access to spells, you might want to harpoon the lizard with a ballista (or several), and hope that you can hack it to shreds before it gets the ropes (or chains) torn. But both of these things could compromise the 'single handedly' part though.. consult your DM and ask what he thinks.
Prator_the_Legendary 04-02-07, 05:09 PM	I always interpreted that class requirement as a demand that you have a showdown with the beat in its lair (where it has nowhere to go). At any rate, that's the easiest way to do it... Another way to do it is to set a trap for the dragon. You be bait on the ground and challenge a dragon to attack you. It swoops down for a claw attack, and WHAM! A net weighted with adamantine catches it. Then you can coup de grace it while it's pinned down.
Nakat 04-02-07, 05:15 PM	If you were the only one that built the trap. sure, but single combat is nasty, even if it doesn't have flight or breath. A well-played dragon is devestatingly intelligent, and not necessarily prone to falling into traps like that with the excellent spot rolls it will have to notice something is amiss.
green_yawgmoth 04-02-07, 05:15 PM	Do the same thing you'd do for a Molten Core run in WoW: lots of fire resist gear and some healing potions. Maybe use the afforementioned spellstoring weapon to store wingbind. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Nakat 04-02-07, 05:25 PM	Do the same thing you'd do for a Molten Core run in WoW: lots of fire resist gear and some healing potions. Maybe use the afforementioned spellstoring weapon to store wingbind. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif actually, downdraft isn't a bad idea either if you can get a 1 use of it. When the dragon looks like it's gonna fly or is making an attack run at you, hold an action and drop it a good 100ft (50 on a successful reflex save) and deal some good falling damage before the wingbind. shouldn't see that coming.
StalkerEntreri 04-02-07, 05:25 PM	Well; if you wanted to go into that class what you could do is take one of the classes from the book of nine swords and use some of the strike abilities; a WarBlade gets one called Emerald Razor that resolves attack as if it were a touch attack; and dragons touch AC is horrible. As well as many of the other good things that the classes from ToB get. I am not sure how you would do it by yourself until later levels; unless you had a Dragonbane weapon and maybe some fire resistant armor
Holy_Beholder 04-02-07, 11:19 PM	Mounted Charge. Unless your DM is really cruel, a mount will still count as single combat. And you can do huge amounts of damage with a mounted charge. I have seen a level 6 character do over fifty damage on a regular basis, because of a long list of mounted feats. Just make sure you don't get addicted to the tactic, because if you do, longspears start to become more common, and the DM is liable to invent pikes(20 ft reach, 1d6, sets against charge, two guys in a row, first hits you, next horse.) But a dragon can't do much against it, especially if you have surprise.
Saberus 04-03-07, 12:07 AM	The non-combat kill: NOTE:this may not work, depending on your DM, and relies on a personality quirk from 2nd ed. Sneak into it's lair while it's out hunting and toss a copper onto it's hoard. Run away, hide, and wait. The Red will immediately notice that it's hoard has been tampered with, and count it at one to determine how much was stolen. After freaking out about the extra copper, it may decide to go ravage a nearby town to vent. If it does, you're in luck, repeat the process with a silver, then a gold, then a platinum. At this point, the Red should be so frustated that it'll beat it's head on the wall :banghead:, knocking itself out. Now sneak in, Coup de Grace, collect treasure. QAD. I love this, it's comic genius!
nordyboy 04-03-07, 12:29 AM	The non-combat kill: NOTE:this may not work, depending on your DM, and relies on a personality quirk from 2nd ed. Sneak into it's lair while its out hunting and toss a copper onto it's hoard. Run away, hide, and wait. The Red will immediately notice that it's hoard has been tampered with, and count it at one to determine how much was stolen. After freaking out about the extra copper, it may decide to go ravage a nearby town to vent. If it does, youre in luck, repeat the process with a silver, then a gold, then a platinum. At this point, the Red should be so frustated that it'll beat it's head on the wall :banghead:, knocking itself out. Now sneak in, Coup de Grace, collect treasure. QAD. I love this, it's comic genius! Hilarious plan, really. I love it. The only problem with it is the part in bold. I can't see any solution that involves four different towns being razed to the ground as a viable means to enter a Lawful Good, Exalted PrC. Especially because it'd be, you know, your fault.
Saberus 04-03-07, 12:38 AM	Hilarious plan, really. I love it. The only problem with it is the part in bold. I can't see any solution that involves four different towns being razed to the ground as a viable means to enter a Lawful Good, Exalted PrC. Especially because it'd be, you know, your fault. Who says I was aiming for an Exalted PrC? And why four towns? Why not the same one four times? By the time I'm done, I doubt anyone would be left alive that could use the right Divinations to discover me as the impetus behind their misfortune. It's good to be Evil :devil: :emp: If you thought that was funny, wait 'til you hear the fastest way to kill a white dragon...
unusualsuspect 04-03-07, 12:53 AM	Perhaps it would be a good idea to enumerate what, exactly, one is facing when facing a juevenile red dragon. Juevenile Red Dragon: Large Dragon (fire) - fire subtype, thus immune to fire and vulnerable to cold. Difficult to exploit as a melee character, generally. HP: 168 (16d12 +64) - damn, that's a lot of HP. HP beatdown may not be a good way to beat this guy. Speed: 40 ft, 150 ft fly (poor) - Good landspeed, good fly speed but poor maneuverability. If you can find a way to limit the dragon to a single standard or move action a round, that is a SIGNIFICANT power drain. Armor Class: 24 (-1 size, +15 natural), touch 9, flatfooted 24 - This has been mentioned before, but that's a very low touch AC. Exploit it if you can! Base Attack/Grapple: +16/+29 - Don't grapple this guy. Just don't. Unless you're a professional, anyway. Freedom of Movement in some form or another wouldn't be a bad idea. Attack/Full Attack: +24, various natural weapon attacks. - Duking it out, mano a mano, exchanging full attacks is PROBABLY NOT A GOOD IDEA, unless your entire build is centered around a helluva nice AC and a beatdown of dragonkind. Space/Reach: 10 ft/5 ft (10 ft with bite) - Reach isn't too much of a problem, though a trip attempt with the bite (Large size and 29 strength means a decent trip modifier) could be dangerous. Special Attacks: breath weapon 8d10 (DC 22), spellcasting (3rd level) - The breath weapon averages 44 damage, and that's a pretty high reflex save for most meleers to make. Energy resistance is nice. The spellcasting hasn't reached nasty proportions yet, clearly, though it can boost the AC significantly (Mage Armor and Sheild... suddenly you're having to hit AC 32) Special Qualities: Saves: +14, +10, +12 - If you have to pick a save, I'd recommend Will. Most of the Reflex effects really aren't going to do much more then put the sliiiightest dent in the dragon's hefty HP. Abilities: 29 str, 10 dex, 19 con, 14 int, 15 wis, 14 cha - See that 10 dex? That's a good choice to attack. Alternatively, a wounding weapon could do major, MAJOR damage... 16 HD means each 2 con damage is equal to an extra 16 damage. Skills: Dragons have skills. Lots of skills. Rarely, however, are they particularly SNEAKY. With only 3 levels of sorcerer casting, they can't compensate yet with arcane power. At least you'll probably know this monstrosity is coming for ya... Feats: 6 feats so far, picked by the DM. This could range anywhere from inconsequential to devestating. My suggestions: If you'e pretty sure you'll be facing the dragon within 24 hours, I recommend finding an NPC spellcaster who can put an Energy Immunity (Fire) spell on you the day of. Taking away the dragon's 44 damage breath weapon is going to be integral in preventing a successful fly-by breath attack routine, and even the higher level energy resistance (30 fire resistance) is going to allow enough damage, on average, to nickel-and-dime your character to death. Consider a +1 Spell Storing weapon, as mentioned. The saves on the dragon on impressive, but he doesn't have either Frightful Presence or Spell Resistance yet. I know this is harped on very, very often, but putting Shivering Touch into your Spell Storing weapon will, on average, win you the fight in ONE FELL SWOOP. Make sure you have some method of getting that hit... A Minor Ring of Spell Storing with a Wraithestrike spell cast into it works wonders. Alternatively, to practically guarantee the usefulness of Shivering Touch, consider storing a Shivering Touch in the Minor Ring of Spell Storing... when a 10 dex creature gets hit with 6d6 dex damage, he ain't likely to keep moving. This is a costly method, I'm aware... +1 Spell Storing weapons are over 8300 gp, and a Minor Ring of Spell Storing sets you back 18k. Frankly, facing a Juevenile Red Dragon solo as a melee character is bound to set you back a lot. Can't help it, i'm afraid.
Cryofdragon 04-03-07, 01:22 AM	Do you have Frostburn? If you do, get someone to cast shivering touch into a spell-storing wepon, or get a wand of it and UMD it if you can. Boom, dead dragon.
Yokomohoyo 04-03-07, 01:45 AM	MMMMM you know their is a thread that was posted a wile back about this same thing. Can you get ahold of binding winds? In a scroll or something of that sort. It will take away the dragon's flight. Drink a potion of fire resistance, and if your a pally then smite it. All you have to do is get a wayfare guide to teleport you directly into the dragon's lair and make sure you have greater invisibility or supirior invisibility on.
CrashtheStyx 04-03-07, 12:13 PM	So basically, attempt to reduce the dragon's dex to zero? What happens when your dex is reduced to zero? I'm looking through the core books and can't find it. Oh, and if you are on a mount while fighting the dragon...and the mount has improved evasion, does that mean you are granted improved evasion too for the purposes of dealing with the dragon's breath weapon?
Comus 04-03-07, 12:23 PM	So basically, attempt to reduce the dragon's dex to zero? What happens when your dex is reduced to zero? I'm looking through the core books and can't find it. Oh, and if you are on a mount while fighting the dragon...and the mount has improved evasion, does that mean you are granted improved evasion too for the purposes of dealing with the dragon's breath weapon? PHB, abilities section (I believe, don't have books on me) - when your dex is zero, you're paralyzed and unable to move. Totally helpless.
StalkerEntreri 04-03-07, 12:30 PM	PHB, abilities section (I believe, don't have books on me) - when your dex is zero, you're paralyzed and unable to move. Totally helpless. Yup
littlekobold 04-03-07, 02:40 PM	Then, just coup-de-gras until it is dead. Yes, Shivering Touch is THE way to one-shot a dragon, any age.
Derren S. 04-03-07, 03:47 PM	Yes, Shivering Touch is THE way to one-shot a dragon, any age. Not only dragons but nearly anything else. And thats why ST is stupidly broken.
_Bolshack_Dragon_ 04-03-07, 03:58 PM	I'd make a Dragonborn Paladin, with the racial substitution levels for lvl1 and lvl4. Then I would make sure all my feats were something like extra smiting. Then for a weapon I'd try to get Dragon hammer from Arms and Equipment Guide.
Amon_WinterfallIV 04-03-07, 06:22 PM	Are there any weapons that deal double damage to dragons? I know there used to be... I guess you can try silenced+Invisible CdG in its sleep with Max Power Attack--be sure to bring a Scythe (x4 Crit) along for the ride. It's still got scent, but it would have to smell itself awake (which I don't see happening, unless the DM has burnt a feat on 'light sleeper' or some such) I don't think you can tank the J. Red as a 8-10 meleer. If you level drain the dude, you'd be in better shape. You might be able out attrition it--if you collapsed its cave on it, and covered all exits, and you did it well enough that the dragon is pinned and buried by tons of dirt, the dragon will be suffocated. I don't see a stand up fight as the way to do this at all-it's playing the red at its best. If the DM has decided to give the Dragon a few helpful feats, you're in for it...
feartheinvinceblehamster 04-03-07, 06:42 PM	I'm leaning towards hitting it with a sword and using your lucky dice.
Midnight_v 04-03-07, 06:48 PM	Actually... dragons have blindsense. You'd need darkstalker LoM to pull that off. Not to imply such an approach isn't valid but if you use scrolls or wands or have someone cast sleep on you.... wouldn't that violate the whole "by yourself clause"? I think that the best way is to magic the creature. You're still melee by base attack but you need magic and since juveniles don't have spell resistance yet... Human Cleric8/ Melee class 2 (fighter/paladin/or prestige.) Domains: Cold (LOL bahamut gives you this hint hint) Glory or whatever Sacred vow Vow of obedience Empower spell Divine metamagic empower Cast Hypothermia from Spell compendium. Twice. Thats 8d6 (thought you could have it 10 d6) raised by 4 or (5) totaling 12D6x2 = 24d6...twice... or 10d6+empower time cold vunerability 30d6 The only other way I see to do this is ... uhm... various uber charge builds Shocktrooper leap attack Smite...rage... valourous weapon etc.. Lastly I forgot about this one The killer Melle gnome...http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=633443 really this was a question for the optimization boards anyway. Good luck! Let me know how it goes!
CrashtheStyx 04-03-07, 08:03 PM	Actually... dragons have blindsense. You'd need darkstalker LoM to pull that off. Not to imply such an approach isn't valid but if you use scrolls or wands or have someone cast sleep on you.... wouldn't that violate the whole "by yourself clause"? Yeah that's the problem. If I paid for someone to cast a spell on me, then I'm expelling my resources for a service, I think that should count towards my doing it. But I think the best bet at this point would be to get a spell storing item with the ST spell, that would be pretty costly, but that seems like the best way to go about doing it.
Midnight_v 04-03-07, 08:13 PM	Posted possible answer Lastly I forgot about this one The killer Melle gnome...http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=633443 really this was a question for the optimization boards anyway. Good luck! Let me know how it goes!
Yokomohoyo 04-04-07, 01:44 AM	Don't forget that Invisibility Supirior blockes every type of detection except true seeing. Wich include blind sence, temor sence, glitter dust and all the other normal detection methods. You still leave foot prints though.
Midnight_v 04-04-07, 07:04 PM	Yeah but he can't cast it.... I mean what level is that?
xboxgamer1991 04-04-07, 07:16 PM	AH! i love this prestige class! i had to do this same thing, my fighter level 9 killed this dragon single handedly,well i (my fighter) just bought a ring of fire resistance 10. and my +2 greatsword, i kicked its ass...ha ha..it was great though, but yea just potions and try to get some fire resistant stuff, rings potions etc. make sure you have power attack (helps a lot) cause i dont think their ac is that high. it also helps to have a 24 str. have fun!
Cartigan 04-04-07, 07:45 PM	Don't forget that Invisibility Supirior blockes every type of detection except true seeing. Wich include blind sence, temor sence, glitter dust and all the other normal detection methods. You still leave foot prints though. How does it leave footprints but void tremorsense?
LeuktheSavior 04-04-07, 09:55 PM	hunt down a Juvenile Red Dragon. Find out its patterns, its haunts, and any dragons in the nearby area. Take some of its hoard, and make a mad dash to another dragon's lair, and drop the coin or article of affection in there. probably a white dragon would be the wisest choice, and make sure that the dragons are close enough in age that where the red dragon is powerful enough to kill the white one, the white one can still give it a run for its money. that'll probably take alot of research and planning on your characters side, and maybe even getting your allies together and meeting both dragons, offering treasure in return for time to palaver with both of them, especially if you have a character with high social skills to banter with them, perhaps telling the red you're going after the white, the white you're going after the red for whatever reason you may think of, and offer the opposing dragon's hoard up for grabs should you succeed. dragons being the avaricious, greedy bastards they are would probably take to easy gold. Then its just a matter of bringing the red and white into open combat with one another. then, after they deal their damage to each other, and assuming the red dragon won, send half your team to the Red Dragon's hoard, the other half to the white dragons, keeping your caster (hopefully a sorcerer or wizard) with the prospective dragon slayer. if the dragon decides to take the white dragon's hoard, then have the wizard buff you up, and get the hell out of dodge. If the red dragon decides to go home to rest, and assuming oyu have a means of communication for your buddy's staking out the enemy's turf, your buddies can tell you, your caster will teleport you there, and because the parameters of the prerequisites require you to slay the dragon single handedly (as you would be doing, because no player has initiated combat with it yet, and it never stated the dragon couldnt be impaired in some way because of prior conflicts) go to town. if your characters are good enough, or your casters have the firepower, have them bring the entrance to the dragon's lair down behind you and seal the two of you in their with one another, and have your buddies scry you or the dragon in about an hour. if the dragon's dead, teleport in, rest, then collect two dragon hoards, and have one hell of a story for the kids at home.
Yokomohoyo 04-05-07, 01:11 AM	How does it leave footprints but void tremorsense? Dont ask me... Ask the guys who made the spell, I didnt write it after all. BTW @ the OP is their a way for you to become a half dragon before you have to fight it? If so you could become a gold half dragon and have fire immunity and still stay lawful good.
LeuktheSavior 04-05-07, 09:26 AM	or become a half clay golem if you can handle the loss of int, so you're immune to all dragon breath attacks, claws, and bite attacks, gain berserk and the ability to haste for three rounds, and then a DR 10/silver.
snakeman830 04-05-07, 12:43 PM	Supirior Invisibility is a 9th level spell from Complete Arcane It's been mentioned that limiting it to a single action is a good idea. Spell storing weapon holding Slow Make said weapon either frost or freezing burst. Total cost: 18,300+ normal weapon cost for frost, 32,300 + normal weapon cost for freezing burst You hit the dragon the first time and have the weapon cast Slow. If it fails it's will save, it's movement is reduced and it can only take one action per round, thus letting you not worry about full attacks from it for x rounds. If it succeeds, you still did the 1D6 *1.5 cold damage + weapon damage to it. Sure, it'll be expensive, but said weapon can be useful long after you've defeated the dragon. This one weapon won't win the battle for you, but it'll be a great aid. If you can, get armor of Greater Fire Resistance. Again, this won't win the game, but it will help. Also again, it will be expensive (67,150 + normal armor cost), but it will continue to help even after the dragon is dead.
Amon_WinterfallIV 04-05-07, 07:55 PM	Q: If the dragon is sleeping, and said fighter is Invisible (Perhaps Improved Invisible) and Silenced, whats the penalty for a sleeping dragon to hear the fighter? I know that blindsense is powerful, but if the dragon is sleeping, is even blindsense annuled?
Yokomohoyo 04-06-07, 02:24 AM	Supirior Invisibility is a 9th level spell from Complete Arcane If I'm not mistaken it was a level 9 spell in complete arcane and was changed to level 8 in Spell Compendium.
Derren S. 04-06-07, 04:50 AM	I know that blindsense is powerful, but if the dragon is sleeping, is even blindsense annuled? Not that I know of.
CrashtheStyx 04-06-07, 02:47 PM	I know that blindsense is powerful, but if the dragon is sleeping, is even blindsense annuled? Yeah no clue. Would that be up to the DM? Because if that be the case then I'm screwed. My DM loves dragons and will most likely make his as strong as possible...hence the starting of this thread.
LeuktheSavior 04-06-07, 10:00 PM	i think rigging the lair with explosives of sorts (assuming its a cave) and bringing the upper half of the mountain down on its brainmeats would be the best route.
Amon_WinterfallIV 04-07-07, 03:15 AM	Okay, it makes no sense for Blindsense to autowin everything, there has to be someway to defeat it. And here's the possible answer. The dragon being asleep MIGHT trump blindsense; the dragon might know of the location of the fighter, but because its in a deep sleep, it can not act on that information. This is a very risky move--humans move in and out of deep sleep even while asleep. If dragons do the same, they might be able to act out of light sleep easily. If the DM gives the Dragon a light sleeper feat, or the Dragon has an Alarm spell, this is right out; but it definitely is arguable that a Dragon in deep sleep could get CdGed if the fighter is Silenced and Invisible. A heal check to understand this point would be required, but it might be doable. What about a cursed gold piece? If you can offer a cursed item to the dragon, greed will surely get the better of it, and you might be able to hit it with something nasty (as bestow curse?) If this is legit, offering it five cursed gold pieces to completely screw it as a prelude to killing it might also work.
Derren S. 04-07-07, 06:18 AM	That assumes that the dragon is dumb enough to not check for magical auras on the gift.
LeuktheSavior 04-07-07, 10:32 PM	what are you exact class levels anyway?
Whisper_Swiftblade 04-07-07, 11:01 PM	set up a trap, and bring oddly spcific tools for the job. There are plenty of ways you could do it, for example lead it into a cave that you have carfuly set a portion of to collaps when you pull just the right coard, and well pull the coard, if the X tons of crushing rock (by the way don't forget to have a way out set up) don't kill it, you won't have too hard a time useing your sword to finish the job.
Midnight_v 04-08-07, 09:28 AM	There is a feat in the lords of madness called Darkstalker that makes it possible to ignore creatures "detction abilities" and they still have to make spot and listen checks accordingly. Gets around its blindsense.
Saraqual 04-08-07, 05:34 PM	this might not work the way i think it would but here goes cleric lvl 10 water domain diciple of the sun feat phylactery of undead turning the water domain allows you to turn fire creatures as you would undead, with the phylactery of undead turning your effective turning level would be 14 with the diciple of the sun feat you can burn two uses of your turning ability and instantly destroy the turning subject. all you have to do is manage a turning check of level +2 and the dragon is toast.
LeuktheSavior 04-08-07, 06:00 PM	...thats beautiful, im not sure if it would work, but if it did, that would be so awesome.
Whisper_Swiftblade 04-08-07, 08:31 PM	this might not work the way i think it would but here goes cleric lvl 10 water domain diciple of the sun feat phylactery of undead turning the water domain allows you to turn fire creatures as you would undead, with the phylactery of undead turning your effective turning level would be 14 with the diciple of the sun feat you can burn two uses of your turning ability and instantly destroy the turning subject. all you have to do is manage a turning check of level +2 and the dragon is toast. wow, that is a mighty trick indeed! would you be so kind as to list where the involved abilities can be found?
Bannek 04-08-07, 10:14 PM	confirmed double critical... end of fight first round.
Saraqual 04-08-07, 10:55 PM	cleric lvl 10: phb (duh) water domain: phb diciple of the sun: complete divine phylactrery of undead turning: dmg nothing that fancy
LeuktheSavior 04-08-07, 11:06 PM	take the glory and ice domains, glory giving you an extra +2 to your turn check. it says its for undead only, but if the phylactery can be applied to turning the dragon, so too should that.
Saraqual 04-08-07, 11:19 PM	take the glory and ice domains, glory giving you an extra +2 to your turn check. it says its for undead only, but if the phylactery can be applied to turning the dragon, so too should that. i agree, although if your going to focus both domains on this, i would rather than glory take the sun domain. grants the greater turning once per day, makes dragon go poof instead of aaaaahhhhh! and youl be able to kill your dragon with a pure core build:)
LeuktheSavior 04-08-07, 11:30 PM	i need to bring all my books back home, i dont know what the sun domain does offhandedly.
Saraqual 04-08-07, 11:50 PM	sun domain: once per day you can use the greater turning ability rather than a normal turning, the greater turning allows you to destroy the creatures your turning. its in the phb of course you should also (since were talking an exalted charater here) get the nymphs kiss feat, grants one extra skill point and a +2 on all CHA checks, and turning is a CHA check which means given a 14 CHA, and 5 ranks in knowlege (religion) you would destroy a 16hd reddragon on a 10+ :D
Yokomohoyo 04-09-07, 02:46 AM	Why not kill it the sameway you would a Tarrasque? Buy lots of addy sling bullets and cast Greater Invisibility on your self. Fly over it wile it sleeps and drop the bullets. Their addy so they bypass all armor and since its asleep you take away its dex bouns.
Cartigan 04-09-07, 07:49 AM	I know! Get a shield and armor and a sword and defeat it in armed combat!
CrashtheStyx 04-09-07, 09:01 AM	what are you exact class levels anyway? Basically all Paladin. I'll have some PrC classes, but it's a campaign specific PrC my DM put together that for the basis of this thread go ahead and assume they're just paladin levels. Yeah, the cleric/sun domain/etc looks sweet...if I wasn't already 5 levels into paladin :)
Amon_WinterfallIV 04-12-07, 03:26 AM	Okay. Dex poison against the Dragon? Could work, i guess you'd need to beat a Colossal Centipede (CR 8) and then use its 2d6 Dex damage poison against the Dragon. The DC is 36--if the dragon's fort save is only +14, so this is a winner! Strike quickly and give the dragon two doses of this venom, and it takes 4d6 Dex damage--with the average outcome of this would be 13 Dex. Dragon is paralyzed. Get in those two hits with that venom and you've got it! Now, about killing those two colossal centipedes: Thats still a fair challenge for the party. :) What ever happened to the Good/Lawful/Cold weapon that did x8 damage to Red Dragons? I still believe that a cursed item would probably work. I'll take the position that the Dragon will probably accept treasure without inspecting it. If you could give it a cursed item, or better, multiple items that have a time trigger (They bestow their curse @noon tommorrow) you can give it a lot of penalties which it can't dispel! :) Lastly, you can try using universal solvent: the dragon might dissolve. Its a cheesy instafrag, but its also a very costly one.
Yokomohoyo 04-12-07, 03:52 AM	Get a vorpal sword and hope for a nat 20 on your first swing :P
Jandulh 04-17-07, 05:08 PM	Bag of holding A large object that wieghs a couple of hundred tons (shrunk and kept in bag) Boots of spider climb (or cast it) 1) Sneak into lair 2) sneak onto ceiling 3) Open sack, drop large object and un shrink it. 4) Yell "HEY DRAAAAAAGON" to intiate surprise round. Calculate 8 ton object falling onto juvenile dragon.
CrashtheStyx 04-17-07, 05:31 PM	Bag of holding A large object that wieghs a couple of hundred tons (shrunk and kept in bag) Boots of spider climb (or cast it) 1) Sneak into lair 2) sneak onto ceiling 3) Open sack, drop large object and un shrink it. 4) Yell "HEY DRAAAAAAGON" to intiate surprise round. Calculate 8 ton object falling onto juvenile dragon. That's sexy. Just plain uber-hott sexiness all over that one.
Cartigan 04-17-07, 07:02 PM	Summon a dropbear.
Amon_WinterfallIV 04-17-07, 07:05 PM	Vorpals are on to something. If you could polymorph into some kind of 6 armed creature and wield 6 vorpal blades, you have decent odds of hitting a 20...
Magrus 04-17-07, 08:28 PM	Vorpals are on to something. If you could polymorph into some kind of 6 armed creature and wield 6 vorpal blades, you have decent odds of hitting a 20... Extremely cost effective too. :P
Frodo34x 04-18-07, 08:45 AM	I like the cleric one, because rather than having its head cut off, or crushed beneath a heavy object, the dragon just explodes :D.
Korvara_Verndari 04-19-07, 04:13 PM	Just take the Touch of Golden Ice feat from the Exalted Handbook. 3d6+Chr dex dmg Take the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and walk up and punch it several times... it's bound to fail it's saves and then it's free for killing. Kor
Adrez Nesnsid 07-09-07, 06:46 PM	My reccomendation would be to seal up all of the entrances to its lair with it still inside. And then either wait and make sure it stays sealed, or else try to find a way to collapse the whole area on top of it. Another good way to kill a red dragon is to have some easily beaten dupe travel through the dragon's territory carrying thousands and thousands of gold coins, all of them coated with deadly poison....
OatsMalone 07-09-07, 07:20 PM	Actually, a Paladin/Ranger in a campaign I'm playing in needs to do the same thing soon. In the same campaign, two lvl. 7 kobolds (I played one too, he stayed outside guarding a dragonwrought kobold egg) killed an adult Copper Dragon. One was a scout, the other a ranger. How, you ask? I will explain w/ the fighter example. Make sure you have ranks in Handle Animal, then buy a horse (or get a dire weasel animal companion if you're a kobold...). Then, buy 30 vials of Alchemist's Spark (from Eberron, if your DM allows it; we just used A-Fire, but it was Copper). Load the horse down, and convince it to ride into the cave. One dragon chomp later, and it's minus half or more of it's hp. After that, it's a simple matter of wearing it down. Don't forget a longbow!
Adrez Nesnsid 07-09-07, 07:38 PM	Make sure you have ranks in Handle Animal, then buy a horse (or get a dire weasel animal companion if you're a kobold...). Then, buy 30 vials of Alchemist's Spark (from Eberron, if your DM allows it; we just used A-Fire, but it was Copper). Load the horse down, and convince it to ride into the cave. One dragon chomp later, and it's minus half or more of it's hp. After that, it's a simple matter of wearing it down. Don't forget a longbow! Back in the 1970's wasn't there some kind of navy program to try and do something like that sort of thing, but with dolphins or sea lions or something instead of horses??
OatsMalone 07-09-07, 07:52 PM	Yup. They eventually decided that dolphin-bombs would probably **** too many people off. I suppose you could have a caster beguile a non-sentient evil creature into doing the same thing; less moral issues there. It was hilarious when the kobold gave up his animal companion, though; I think he might have shed a tear.
GrondGala 07-10-07, 01:14 AM	Yup. They eventually decided that dolphin-bombs would probably **** too many people off. Damn hippies...:devil:
Adrez Nesnsid 07-10-07, 10:10 AM	If your character is an elf, or a member of some other ling lived race, than a good plan of action would be to capture a red wyrmling early on, and then keep it shackled up for seventy odd years, or whatever, and then kill it...
Paladin_Hiroshi 07-10-07, 02:07 PM	If your character is an elf, or a member of some other ling lived race, than a good plan of action would be to capture a red wyrmling early on, and then keep it shackled up for seventy odd years, or whatever, and then kill it... QFT xD MY VERSION Go and find a dragon that's on the verge of turning to juvenile and whale on it till it is on 0HP, this shouldn't be too hard, withthe strategies mentioned here. Then wait till it is old enough to be juvenile and then slaughter it. :D
Adrez Nesnsid 10-03-07, 07:22 PM	:bump:
PhaedrusXY 10-04-07, 05:57 PM	A simple tanglefoot bag can prevent it from flying for a round or two, and might do signifigant damage to it, depending on how far it falls. Tanglefoot Bag When you throw a tanglefoot bag at a creature (as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet), the bag comes apart and the goo bursts out, entangling the target and then becoming tough and resilient upon exposure to air. An entangled creature takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity and must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be glued to the floor, unable to move. Even on a successful save, it can move only at half speed. Huge or larger creatures are unaffected by a tanglefoot bag. A flying creature is not stuck to the floor, but it must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be unable to fly (assuming it uses its wings to fly) and fall to the ground. A tanglefoot bag does not function underwater. A creature that is glued to the floor (or unable to fly) can break free by making a DC 17 Strength check or by dealing 15 points of damage to the goo with a slashing weapon. A creature trying to scrape goo off itself, or another creature assisting, does not need to make an attack roll; hitting the goo is automatic, after which the creature that hit makes a damage roll to see how much of the goo was scraped off. Once free, the creature can move (including flying) at half speed. A character capable of spellcasting who is bound by the goo must make a DC 15 Concentration check to cast a spell. The goo becomes brittle and fragile after 2d4 rounds, cracking apart and losing its effectiveness. An application of universal solvent to a stuck creature dissolves the alchemical goo immediately. It is likely to make the save, but even if it does, losing 4 dex and -2 to its attacks is still pretty nice. And if it wants to get rid of it, it has to waste a round. If you hit it with another one while it is already entangled in the first one, it loses 2 points off its Reflex save on the second one, also. :D
TelinArtho 10-05-07, 05:07 PM	I have a dragon hunter over in the CoCo boards, so I've spent a fair amount of time in thought on how to defeat various kinds of dragons. Of course, my dragon hunter isn't going solo - but that's because I prefer the company of an ally in order to reduce "unlucky" rolls. That said - large dragons are a lot easier to handle than huge dragons. As large creatures, they are still supceptible to Tanglefoot bags (as mentioned above by Phaedrus), nets and a few other things. At large size, it is still reasonable to trip (for a focused tripper... juvenile red would have +13 to resist (+17 if it is already on the ground and on all fours...)). The biggest chore is getting it into a position that you want it in. Breath weapon is pretty much its only ranged option (and it is an effective one). If it refuses to come close to you - the solution is ranged attacks. If you want it to come closer - you will probably have to take the breath weapon out of the equation or force it to the ground. Tanglefoot bags will have this neatly tied up, but nets, bolas and similar items can work well. If you do want it on the ground, the next key is to have the ability to keep it on the ground. Tanglefoot bags have a limited duration, nets are easily sundered (unless you take a seriously questionable "Deepcrystal" net (10 hardness, 75hp...)), but again, a tripping specialist can do well here. Without trip, the stand still feat could work well to your advantage as well. Keeping things within the budget of an ECL8 character - here's what I would consider: Potion of Protection from Energy (CLx) - the higher the CL you can afford - the better. Alternatively, Potion of Resist Energy (Fire, CL7 or CL11 if possible) would be another solution. In both of these cases, do not neglect your reflex save - because it is the successful saves that will save you here - the failed saves will still eat away a lot of your HP. Bow +1, Frost or Dragon bane if you can afford it - 8000+gp Melee weapon +1, Frost or dragon bane if you can afford it. AC - higher the better - AC30 is a bare minimum if you intend on getting close to it - AC40+ would be better. This may mean several more potions (Barkskin +3 or better, Shield of Faith +3 or better, etc) Non-magical equipment: 4+ tanglefoot bags, 4+ bolas A note on bolas - even if your trip check isn't so hot - with a chance of success - it can make a big difference. If you are able to make use of non-buffing spells (as in a partial caster or a full caster), Entangle (druid/ranger) works wonders as a temporary solution to keeping the dragon down, and of course solutions that control the battlefield can work to your advantage as well (carefully of course - obscuring mist, fog cloud, wall of ice/stone/thorns).
Vaeliorin 10-06-07, 04:19 AM	Well...several years ago, my players managed to come up with a way, using 3.0 RAW to kill a dragon using a weasel. Granted, the weasel was buffed to insane heights...but it would have worked. I don't remember the exact details, but the end result was the weasel romping around in the dragon's brain pan. Granted, they were just trying to yank my chain (which they succeeded very well at) but it would have worked.
Meep326 10-07-07, 11:23 AM	Heh, I read most of the first page, here's me suggestion, get some UMD or some sort of bonus on skill checks to UMD and the ability to use it untrained. Then you need a scroll of Gate (expensive yes... but fun), then ready yer action til it charges you, and right before it gets within striking range, use the scroll to open a gate in front of it to the elemental plane of cold and close it as soon as you can.
happy_fuzzy 10-07-07, 12:22 PM	buy some dust of sneezing and coughing(or choking i forgot) (cursed) throw it at the dragon. It will succeed on its fort save on everthing down to a 1, hence it will be paralyzed for 2-3ish rounds. Coup-de-gras to your heart's delight. Its in DMG and is something like 2400 gold.
ff6shadow 10-07-07, 12:33 PM	I do believe dragons are immune tol paralysis.
Adrez Nesnsid 10-07-07, 08:03 PM	buy some dust of sneezing and coughing(or choking i forgot) (cursed) throw it at the dragon. It will succeed on its fort save on everthing down to a 1, hence it will be paralyzed for 2-3ish rounds. Coup-de-gras to your heart's delight. Its in DMG and is something like 2400 gold. I do believe dragons are immune tol paralysis. Plus it might set everything on fire...
YamiSouru 10-08-07, 01:04 PM	simple! if not cost effective but extremely cool anyway! get the searing spell metamagic feat so your fire spells deal half damage despite the fire immunity and melt it's face off! ...oh wait for melee? thats simple also. kill it like you kill anything else. Hit it till it stops moving.:D
Aricandor 10-08-07, 01:25 PM	Ice cubes. Lots and lots of ice cubes. On a more serious note, your best bet is really to corner it somehow. If it gets into the air, you're pretty much screwed. I suppose enough Tanglefoot bags would do the trick... Assuming you don't get incinerated waiting for the dragon's low Reflex roll. Combine with a friendly local spellcaster's Energy Immunity (Fire), and I guess you're good to go with this. A frost, dragon-bane longbow could also help a little. Once again, assuming you don't get incinerated in the process.