Post/Author/DateTime	Post
StormKnight 03-29-05, 11:42 AM	(I know this has been done before, but I can't find the whole thread, so here it goes again anyway) 1. Any job worth doing is worth forcing the PCs to do PCs must always be physically forced into any adventure. Even if they would happily go on it without any coercision. The logical way for the lawful good King to get the Noble Paladin of the Order Of The Foes of Undeath, who is a devoted protector of the realm and sworn agent of the crown, to go stop the zombie menace is to have guards beat him senseless, jail him, and refuse to release him until he agrees to go stop the zombies. 2. Why would you want to get off the track? After forcing the party into an adventure through #1, the DM can't understand why everyone keeps trying to betray their employer, thwart his plans and escape the adventure. 3. ENTERING COMBAT MODE All encounters must be resolved by fighting. You cannot sneak past. You cannot run away. You cannot talk your way out. You must fight. Roll initiative now. 4. ENTERING COMBAT MODE (yet again) After thwarting every attempt the PCs make at doing anything other than fighting, the DM accuses the players of being idiots when they actually attack something. THIS time, they were clearly supposed to run away or sneak past or talk to it. 5. FLY YOU FOOLS! This DMs idiot PCs won't run away from a fight that's clearly too much for them, just because the thing they are fighting is also clearly much faster than them, willing to pursue them, and every time they try to get away the DM has it immediately catch them and hurt them a lot. What idiots PCs can be. 6. If you bait the hook, remember to REEL DM throws out plot hook. PCs pursue. PCs quickly run into a dead end with no leads, clues, or ideas of what to do next - except a new hook, which quickly seems to be turning into something unrelated. PCs pursue anyway, since they have no idea what else to do. PCs quickly run into a dead end with no leads, clues, or ideas of what to do next - except a new hook which... Repeat until PCs have absolutely no idea what in the world they originally started out to do. Then wonder why the all vote to have someone else DM. 7. I'm not just going to hand you everything you want! I'm not talking about the DM who won't give you a +5 vorpal sword. I'm talking about the DM who says there is no rope you can grab to use...on the docks. Or no tree in an oak forest that you can climb. No rats in the sewers. If you think you can use it...its not there. 8. Wow, what a cool spell! This DM will have an NPC hit you with some particulary nasty spell...that isn't supposed to be all that nasty. Usually he will look this spell up right before using it, clearly having no idea what it does and then say things like "No, you don't get a save against this spell!" (Well of course not - its only supposed to work on normal inanimate objects!) "Let's see, at level 4 he gets 3 magic missiles, each doing 4 dice of damage, since damage dice always scale up with level." At least this problem can be easily cured on a case-by-case basis. When a PC tries to use a spell the same way or learns the same spell the DM will instantly realize he made a mistake earlier and rule it differently.
GoofsterStud 03-29-05, 11:59 AM	Considering that Combat is my favorite aspect of the game...I fail to see the problem. Biggest problem...(DM not letting you use your Skills like they should be used) NPC's that are stronger than player characters (PISSES ME OF) NPC's that get first pics in items...there NPC's
robertliguori 03-29-05, 12:10 PM	"Elves rule!" Your DM has made 'a few minor mechanical changes' to the way races work. These involve massive bonuses to the elves, and in extreme cases involve the other races being vulnerable to a kind of elven mind-control that forces the party to go along with the elf, and stops them from hitting the prancing nonce with a fort-or-die effect. Sometimes applies to other races.
Xanthia 03-29-05, 02:40 PM	My biggest problem with my current DM is that he will ban spells from his campaign in the middle of a combat. Once, we were fighting a Red Dragon, and the Cleric cast Slime Wave on it becasue she knew that it had a poor Reflex save, and no SR is allowed on that spell. We roll for CON damage, and he says,"That's too powerful; I'm banning it. Cast something else instead". Then we proceeded to get whooped up on by the Dragon until his statless NPC saved our necks. He did the same thing recently with the spell Evard's Black Tentacles during a climactic battle. It's getting annoying.
VirgilCaine 03-29-05, 02:43 PM	He did the same thing recently with the spell Evard's Black Tentacles during a climactic battle. It's getting annoying. Hammergun time!
AcidArgyle 03-29-05, 03:07 PM	the Cleric cast Slime Wave on it becasue she knew that it had a poor Reflex save, and no SR is allowed on that spell. Obviously I don't know much about your party, the DM or the cleric in question, However, what you described gets in the argument on player knowledge -vs- character knowledge.... When i DM i cannot stand those players who have read and memorized the monster manuals so well they know all weaknesses, strengths, attacks and such... the PCs run into a monster and someone may blab out "oh thats gotta be this, and we should do this to it because it does this. blah blah..." Something you as a player know because you are a rules nut, but your character would have no clue on.... It can be difficult but those things need to be kept separate.
Callista 03-29-05, 03:16 PM	Well, the cleric's reasoning could be like this: "Dragons are big creatures; and big creatures are slower simply because they've got to haul that much of themselves around. This spell tends to affect even creatures that shrug off other kinds of magic; so maybe this dragon will be the same." It's not metagaming to know your own spells--you know the effects by way of numbers; your character knows them just as well, though of course s/he doesn't refer to them by numbers. Just watching a creature move around will tell you how fast it is. So picking spells based on how fast a creature looks, or how strong it seems, or how agile its mind seems to be... is not that much of a stretch.
Abulafia 03-29-05, 03:44 PM	Bad DM Traits: Giving away too much treasure too soon. Giving away too little treasure. Being too combat-oriented. Not providing enough combat. Running poorly prepared, unorganized campaigns. Running overly-prepared, mechanistic campaigns. Having a pet NPC (or DMPC). Refusing to provide a helpful NPC to a party in need. Limiting available PrC's, classes, feats, races, etc. Allowing the group's powergamer to dominate the game by refusing to limit available PrC's, classes, feats, races, etc. Having numerous, nonsensical house rules. Refusing to deviate from the core rules, even when the rules produce nonsensical or contradictory results. ----- Basically, we're all bad DMs.
Herald@Large 03-29-05, 05:08 PM	Oboy! My very first post! (please don't hurt me ...) Many years ago I played 1st ed briefly under the most rigid rules lawyer. It was the old Temple of Elemental Evil module, but we couldn't enter the Temple itself because the party was all 2nd-3rd level & we would've been wiped out. Yet we couldn't get any higher because of an obscure rule the DM had found about training. Basically, in order to be trained the PC had to pay the same amount in GP as the number of XP needed to reach the new level. In other words a 2nd level thief needed to pay 3000 GP to train to 3rd level! :( Where on earth is a low-level character supposed to come up with that kind of cash? To make matters worse, he wouldn't allow the PCs to earn the money by waiting tables or scrubbing floors or whatever, we could only get it by adventuring, and when you were "maxed out" on XP any extra XP was thrown away! The final idiocy is that the obscure rule allowed the DM to multiply the GP amount if he decided you were a "bad" player. "Excellent" players paid the stated amount, "good" players paid twice as much, "fair" players paid three times, and "poor" paid four times as much! This was crippling to new players who didn't know the game mechanics, and the campaign was at a standstill. When I tried to point out that this rule was the cause of the standstill, he decided this criticism made me a "good" player instead of an "excellent" one, thus doubling the amount I had to pay simply because I had the audacity to criticize his DMing! :mad: The final straw was my last session: our party took out a marauding band of orcs, and when we divvied up the money our characters got a grand total of 10 GP each. At that rate, playing once a week, it would've taken four years RT to earn enough cash to level from 2nd level to 3rd, all the time earning no XP. I pointed this out to the other players as I packed up my dice and headed for the door. Two weeks later the rest of the players bailed as well. The DM was never able to comprehend why we left -- after all, the rule was "in the book". Feh. Sorry about the rant for my first post, but it feels good to finally get that off my chest. ________________________________________ ________________________ Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
Losdeago 03-29-05, 05:15 PM	Someone who breaks down to easy or gets mad to easy in a big conern is a big flaut in my DM...
StormKnight 03-29-05, 05:41 PM	Sorry about the rant for my first post, but it feels good to finally get that off my chest. Welcome Herald! Since this is a thread specifically for rants, you picked a good place for it! :) And it sounds like you had a truly monumentally BAD DM.
Bronswen 03-29-05, 05:50 PM	When i DM i cannot stand those players who have read and memorized the monster manuals so well they know all weaknesses, strengths, attacks and such... the PCs run into a monster and someone may blab out "oh thats gotta be this, and we should do this to it because it does this. blah blah..."Another "bad DM" is one that doesn't keep things fresh enough that PCs can't always rely on metagaming. Especially since stat blocks in the MM are supposed to be the AVERAGE stats for monsters of that type... equivalent to a human with all six scores ranging between 10 and 11 inclusive. Simply alter the numbers so they reflect the same kind of power the PCs possess with respect to their own races. (Even in 3.5, where a lot of humanoid monsters actually have different-than-average stats, it's easy to trip up the PCs simply by making the monster irregular.) I think a good DM should be able to throw the occassional surprise at his PCs -- such as high-Dex orcs, advanced otyughs, and fiendish barbarian minotaurs -- since that will shake any player's firm reliance on metagame knowledge. Bronswen
On_the_wings_of_TPK 03-30-05, 03:31 AM	Another "bad DM" is one that doesn't keep things fresh enough that PCs can't always rely on metagaming. Especially since stat blocks in the MM are supposed to be the AVERAGE stats for monsters of that type... equivalent to a human with all six scores ranging between 10 and 11 inclusive. Simply alter the numbers so they reflect the same kind of power the PCs possess with respect to their own races. (Even in 3.5, where a lot of humanoid monsters actually have different-than-average stats, it's easy to trip up the PCs simply by making the monster irregular.) I think a good DM should be able to throw the occassional surprise at his PCs -- such as high-Dex orcs, advanced otyughs, and fiendish barbarian minotaurs -- since that will shake any player's firm reliance on metagame knowledge. Bronswen Carefull they tend to whine a lot when their characters can't "guess what weaknesses it has." You'd think a it would be a surprise that a dragon decided to take the Shape Breath feat out the dracononmican. And of course you know there is always NPCs. Humans are great, no real obviouse strengths or weaknesses, and they always have class levels. With 24 diverent classes in WOTC material (and i have been known to home brew classes), there is an almost an number of diverant abilities that NPC could have the. PCs have to interact with it to learn what its ablities are. Thus metagaming is impossible. :cool:
Aricandor 03-30-05, 03:49 AM	... Limiting available PrC's, classes, feats, races, etc... Hold a moment. This isn't necessarily a *bad* thing you know.. :) I do this for the player's best you know. :P
Arquinsiel 03-30-05, 04:53 AM	I tend to combine something similar to this :"Elves rule!" Your DM has made 'a few minor mechanical changes' to the way races work. These involve massive bonuses to the elves, and in extreme cases involve the other races being vulnerable to a kind of elven mind-control that forces the party to go along with the elf, and stops them from hitting the prancing nonce with a fort-or-die effect. Sometimes applies to other races. with this: Limiting available PrC's, classes, feats, races, etc...Hold a moment. This isn't necessarily a *bad* thing you know.. :) I do this for the player's best you know. :P by making elves more powerful and much less common than in the average game. IE: not a player race. Essentially it's just a way of making a campaign more individual while conforming to the standard preconceptions of the gaming public and preventing the place being over-run with elves (that the players know of). That said, I am currently playing in a campaign as an elf in a world where dwarven ale is found in every second tavern and desolves elves on contact with no save allowed (until argueing from the entire party convinced the DM to allow me a reflex save so they could go back to the taverns).
Abulafia 03-30-05, 10:25 AM	Hold a moment. This isn't necessarily a *bad* thing you know.. :) I do this for the player's best you know. :PAricandor -- did you read my post? As some of us are apparently unfamiliar with sarcasm, I will explain: My post was meant as a tongue-in-cheek parable on the criticisms DMs face. Basically, every general complaint about DMing has a counterpart. A DM is bad if he is too lenient or too strict, too generous or too miserly, too combat-oriented or too rp-oriented. Everyone who DM's will fine one or more criticisms on this list that apply to him or her, at least occasionally. Good DMing is about finding the right balance for a particular group of players. Bad DMing is everything else.
trapspringer 03-30-05, 11:17 AM	I greatly dislike it when I see DMs fail to have stats for NPCs the players are very likely to fight, just because it is not required to fight them.
VirgilCaine 03-30-05, 12:25 PM	I think a good DM should be able to throw the occassional surprise at his PCs -- such as high-Dex orcs, advanced otyughs, and fiendish barbarian minotaurs -- since that will shake any player's firm reliance on metagame knowledge. Sorceror and Druid Shambling Mounds? Aartuk Monks? Half-Black Dragon Trolls with potions of Protection from Elements? That kind of surprise? Obviously I don't know much about your party, the DM or the cleric in question, However, what you described gets in the argument on player knowledge -vs- character knowledge.... When i DM i cannot stand those players who have read and memorized the monster manuals so well they know all weaknesses, strengths, attacks and such... the PCs run into a monster and someone may blab out "oh thats gotta be this, and we should do this to it because it does this. blah blah..." Something you as a player know because you are a rules nut, but your character would have no clue on.... It can be difficult but those things need to be kept separate. Knowing spells is basic to a class. Knowing dragons abilities is common knowledge for adventurers IMO.
Bronswen 03-30-05, 12:35 PM	Sorceror and Druid Shambling Mounds? Aartuk Monks? Half-Black Dragon Trolls with potions of Protection from Elements? That kind of surprise?::laughs:: Exactly. Every now and then, something in a fantasy campaign isn't going to be quite what it seems. Knowing spells is basic to a class. Knowing dragons abilities is common knowledge for adventurers IMO.I tend to agree with you. I think a caster should know the full extent and effect of the spells he casts. I also think that in a fantasy campaign, people growing up in a fantastic environment would be raised on stories and lore about various creatures, and about heavyweights like dragons in particular. Similarly, adventurers are sponges for information about the monsters they're likely to encounter. I think it's healthy to have established "norms" within a fantasy world, but again, this is fantasy, and magic runs its course. From time to time, things should just be different. Bronswen
Drachasor 03-30-05, 12:51 PM	Obviously I don't know much about your party, the DM or the cleric in question, However, what you described gets in the argument on player knowledge -vs- character knowledge.... When i DM i cannot stand those players who have read and memorized the monster manuals so well they know all weaknesses, strengths, attacks and such... the PCs run into a monster and someone may blab out "oh thats gotta be this, and we should do this to it because it does this. blah blah..." Something you as a player know because you are a rules nut, but your character would have no clue on.... It can be difficult but those things need to be kept separate. Making reasonable guesses on what a creature's good saves and bad saves are generally isn't metagaming. Especially with dragons who have an obvious bad save (reflex), since they are large and undextrous...obvious facts anyone can see by looking at them. Same sort of thing about guess cold spells might be good against fire creatures and the like. Now, it would be unreasonable, in most games, to use knowledge about what levels of spells said dragon has access to, and using knowledge on the hit points, in-and-outs of special abilities, and the like in combat. That's different than general stuff like "this guy's worst save is reflex". Certainly fortitude and reflex saves are most often going to be the easiest ones to figure out...will is a bit harder. Of course, that doesn't stop the DM from mixing it up now and then to show that you can't always judge a book by its cover; such as a big hulking, strength 16 human, that looks like his body is a lot tougher than it actually is and as though he is less dextrous than he actually is (a rogue, perhaps). -Drachasor
skywyze 03-30-05, 01:08 PM	The hypocritical DM: Typically a lawful evil person in real life, he'll ban PrCs, races, spells and so forth, and then make DMPCs who use those exact things to make HIS characters insanely powerful, and who proceeds to completely overshadow the PCs. Also prone to enjoy humiliating players and who sees DnD as a fight between player and DM, rather than between the monster/BBEG and the PC. Obviously, since the DM can just say that a player is dead without any rolls or anything, there is no way anyone but the DM can win such a fight, which reinforces his insecure, immature and blindingly unreflected personality traits. I've had some bad DMs in my time.
Yak of Darkness 03-30-05, 01:17 PM	Half-Black Dragon Trolls with potions of Protection from Elements? Hee! My party will soon get to fight the Brothers Thwack, two troll rangers whose magical equipment does not extend beyond their dual-bladed swords, and their rings of acid and fire resistance. I mean, these trolls are smart (Int 13!) . . . well, for trolls . . . and they know the only thing that really hurts is the burney light and the burney water. They're also high level. All I know is that if I were a brain surgeon among trolls, you damn well better believe that I'd be protecting myself from that stuff as soon as humanly possible. So I have my NPCs do it as well. It's only fair. When I make a smart monster who has been alive for a while, I make sure part of their resources go to covering up their weakness. Of course, I compensate with knowledge/gather info checks to learn about the better-known (as in, in the community) creatures, bonus XP for slogging through bad situations, bonus XP for coming up with creative solutions to bad situations, and heaps of loot to finance the, "Holy crap our druid needs another cure wand" fund. So I don't think I'm a bad DM . . . just one who likes to see his players sweat before their inevitable victory. But as for bad DM traits . . . No, You Need the *Blue* Key... Every situation has a solution to this DM. Singular: solution. Any attempt to try another way to solve the DM's puzzle, even if it involves nothing more than making use of feats, skills, and class features the players hoped would come in handy at *some* point, will result in simply being told that it doesn't work, and that what you need to do should be "obvious." Note that it may not be obvious at all, and could relate to an ability that the PCs do not even have ("Well it's not *my* fault nobody put 10 ranks in Use Rope..."). Just Like that Episode of Alias The DM gives you a helpful NPC. Only you find out he does evil things and is working for the BBEG. Only when you confront him, he tells you about his double-agent status with your king and how he needed to act evil to get the bad guy's trust. Only you find your king is really a space alien. Only you realize it was Earth all along after seeing the statue of liberty. There is, however, one way to determine once and for all what side the mystery NPC is on: do nothing about him, and he'll be evil and try to kill you all; try to restrain/kill him, and he'll be a favored soul of Pelor, and your whole party will become evil for offending the gods. Sorry, the Sword's Batteries Just Ran Out DM likes nifty magic weapons/items. DM wants to equip his NPCs with nifty magic weapons/items. DM doesn't want the PCs to have these nifty magic weapons/items. Place bets on how long it takes after an NPC's death for his gear to become mundane. Weep. Don't Bother Leaving Home The blacksmith is a retired epic fighter. The tavern wench is a sorceress with eighth-level spells. Every girl you pick up is a succubus in disguise. Every local town guard are high-level rangers with your race as favored enemy, who'll turn you into their epic-paladin-with-gold-dragon-mount captains. Even the street urchin who picks your pocket is actually a legendary halfling arcane trickster, who just wanted your measly GP to "test you." The advantage to this is that you don't need to feel guilty about giving up and not saving the world, as there are plenty of other people far more qualified in every hick town on the plane, even with succubi running amok in your world.
speeblefreak 03-30-05, 01:40 PM	It was a test. I am referring specifically to hitting a 2nd-level party with a "corupted horse" that had an 8d8 breath weapon. Drenik, I hope you read this! Let's try out my new miniatures. I am referring specifically to hitting a 3rd-level party with fifty Aspects of Lloth. :twitch: Begin cutscene. Causing an unavoidable calamity to befall the party, only to have an NPC cancel it ten seconds later. :uh-huh:
Marcivo Mikdeswer 04-04-05, 12:57 PM	Hmm...where to begin... Bad DM's are the reason I stopped playing D&D aside from on message boards. One of mine was a DM who had just about EVERY item cursed. It made you afraid to even dig into your own bag for the most mundane of items in fear you'd be devoured/thrown into the abyss. :( (Wow, my first post in the D&D boards in over a year.)
Abulafia 04-04-05, 01:51 PM	My brother was a pretty good DM, but he had one annoying habit: he didn't think it was physically possible for anyone to ever sneak past anyone else. You could be the patron saint of ninjas, swift and silent, but any time you wanted to sneak (or move silently, or use your stealth skill, or whatever the equivalent ability was in the game we were playing) it would always play out like this: Me: All right -- now that the wizard has cast invisibility and silence on my 20th-level rogue, I will attempt to sneak by the blind, deaf, comatose kobold guard. Him: All right. (Rolls) You take a step. (Rolls) And another. (Rolls) And another. You pause. (Rolls) Did your belt buckle squeak? (Rolls) You take another step . . . (Rolls) The kobold miraculously recovers from his coma, squeaking alarm to his red dragon captor! Eventually I stopped trying. New players would wonder why I always chose to charge right in, no matter what the odds.
Aricandor 04-04-05, 02:08 PM	Aricandor -- did you read my post? As some of us are apparently unfamiliar with sarcasm, I will explain: Hey, now, there's no reason to be so... Ahh... Sarcastic. :) An yes, I read you post. I don't think you should blame anyone for missing your sarcastic intent, it was far from clear, and most of those things are, indeed, no sarcasm included, things that can, will and have ruined games. Hand down. My post was meant as a tongue-in-cheek parable on the criticisms DMs face. Basically, every general complaint about DMing has a counterpart. A DM is bad if he is too lenient or too strict, too generous or too miserly, too combat-oriented or too rp-oriented. Everyone who DM's will fine one or more criticisms on this list that apply to him or her, at least occasionally. Good DMing is about finding the right balance for a particular group of players. Bad DMing is everything else. Yes, 'tis an act of balance. Often on a thin line, with a pit full of poisoned spikes below. :twitch:
Hochiu 04-04-05, 02:17 PM	Though I've only played with this DM once or twice (back at home, we have at least four DMs who are willing to go at it, and we each have our own seperate style), I could say I didn't care much for his style of it. Really, I think he was a member of the Dungeons and Dragons Rule Gestapo. If there was no rule for it then you couldn't do it, and we all know how grey D&D can be in such instances. He's fairly uncompromising about the whole thing too, in such a way that it makes it not a fun game, just a game about rules and numbers. Rule mongering isn't necessarily an evil. It's just a major problem when no one has fun because you're TOO overbearing. Secondly, he would love his Minis. Every encounter would go like this: Dm: "You come into the room and see five--" *goes to search through his five thousand dollars worth of Minis* PCs: *waits* *ten minutes later* PCs: Do we really need the miniatures? DM: Yes! We need them for combat placement and stuff! *presents the minis on the grid with little to no description* Needless to say, I don't think he DMs much anymore. I personally use little counters while my other friend uses [I]Scrabble pieces. They work just as well and there's no problem with it.
danielinthewolvesden 04-04-05, 03:57 PM	"Controlphreak" DM's. Danger signs: "low magic campaigns", "training", "DMPC's" and "railroading". :rant: Not that any one of these can't be a tool of a great DM. But if there is more than one............
Da Dinictus 04-04-05, 04:16 PM	I seem to be guilty of handing out too few treasure right off the bat, only to back it up later with perhaps a tad too much treasure. Next time, Gadget! NEXT TIME!
HammerHeart81 04-04-05, 05:23 PM	High Class This DM has to give every monster level's in class or a template, even if this makes the CR too high. Often this DM uses this to make things more interesting but it's just his only chance to play a race or class that he couldn't play as a player.
Kelnozz Kenafin 04-04-05, 06:32 PM	Someone who breaks down to easy or gets mad to easy in a big conern is a big flaut in my DM... Dude, someone who breaks down and has a hissy at the drop of a hat is a fault to ANYONE, not just a DM
The_Cowled_One 04-05-05, 12:52 AM	Railroading. I hate being railroaded. Not so much in terms of story, but in terms of how obstacles can be approached and overcome. As a perfect example; In a campaign that I am currently in, the DM decided to fill a dungeon with legend-of-zelda-esque puzzles, each of which needed to be overcome in order to proceed through the dungeon. My character, being a bit on the pompous side with an unhealthy overdose of self-confidence, decided to try to sneak ahead of the party and get to the end of the lair on his own, thus proving his superiority over them (Yeah, he was a prick). Problem is, the DM designed several of the puzzles so that they were impossible to "solve" without having several people on hand (such as the first one, which involved three people standing on elevated button mechanisms in order to keep an otherwise unopenable stone door open). The doors were all solid stone, sealed in place, and impossible to thief one's way through, and there was no concievable alternative means of bypassing the puzzles (I couldn't, for instance, put heavy objects on the buttons to hold them down, because they were on 30 foot high pillars, no sufficiently heavy objects were available, and to top it off, the entire dungeon had a gravity magnifying effect). Finally, aware that he was wasting time and that the party would soon be arriving behind him, my character (who was at a rather high level in the ghost-faced killer PrC) decided to use his "ghost step" ability to go ethereal and pass through the door to leave the stupid puzzle behind. The next room was, as it turned out, just as bad, and to top it off, when he tried to repeat the etherealness trick, the walls in the room (except for, conveniently, the one that he had just come through) were all blocked off by "mysterious lightning barriers" that prevented all ethereal mouvement through them. :rolleyes:
ashtawuzhear 04-05-05, 05:54 PM	I'd have to say that the trait I least like to see is power-tripping. This is the DM that says he will allow any multi-class, prestige class, or background as long as it's within reason, then allows nothing. This is the DM that does his best to make as many spells, skills, and feats unusable as possible. This is the DM who isn't satisfied with control over the world, NPCs, and the inevitable DMPC badass; he must prove every session that the PCs are ultimately under his control. He can be identified by comments like the following: "Your character wouldn't do that!" (He may force PC alignment changes if players argue.) "Oooh! Your character should take this feat!" (If you take it, you'll never get to use it. If you don't, the next session will include a tactic, monster, or situation for which the feat would have been useful and says, "I told you so.") "Your characters have no choice." (Well then, they're NPCs now, aren't they?) Second on my list is the DM that requires down-time training/multi-classing/etc., yet allows no down-time in his campaign.
Bronswen 04-05-05, 06:19 PM	Everything's Useless If it has a practical use, good luck trying to use it. I had a DM once who blatantly refused to let a short sword cut a strip of leather. "If you had a dagger, then maybe, but not a short sword." I'm talking about the DM who says there is no rope you can grab to use...on the docks. Or no tree in an oak forest that you can climb. No rats in the sewers. If you think you can use it...its not there.I've shared this bad experience. There is no firewood... in the wilderness. There is no a general store... in the town. The blacksmith is a retired epic fighter. The tavern wench is a sorceress with eighth-level spells. Every girl you pick up is a succubus in disguise. Every local town guard are high-level rangers with your race as favored enemy, who'll turn you into their epic-paladin-with-gold-dragon-mount captains. Even the street urchin who picks your pocket is actually a legendary halfling arcane trickster, who just wanted your measly GP to "test you."What about the chump working the docks who for some inexplicable reason, "needs rogue levels just to survive"? See that pig farmer over there? Six levels of paladin. His six-year-old daughter? 9th-level druid. The cow they just bought? Evoker9/RedWizard10. Bronswen
Psimind25 04-05-05, 07:20 PM	The "Psionics is Overpowered/stupid/pointless/wothless/against world's flavor" Dm. Overpowered: Psionics is NOT overpowered! have any of these DM's even SEEN the new book? Stupid: How is psionics stupid, seems fairly cool to me, it's *gasps* different! Pointless: Most DM's say its pointless because arcane can do the same thing. IO arcane has too many rules accociated with it, and arcane doesnt really have muce variety. Arcane is either utility or AoE nuke. Psinics can take many different forms, and its easier to build an effective character from level one, just simply from how disiplines work. Worthless: How are psions etc. worthless? they are a great addition to any party, depending on their disipline? they can be a good dipomat(telepathy) , a spy(Clairsentience), A utilitizer (Metacreativity), a blaster (Psycokinesis) etc. even a Healer! (Psycomatabolism) Flavor: well, Im tired of every D&D world being a Tolkien clone. why not be different? why NOT have Psionics?
LordHell 04-05-05, 10:29 PM	The "Psionics is Overpowered/stupid/pointless/wothless/against world's flavor" Dm. Overpowered: Psionics is NOT overpowered! have any of these DM's even SEEN the new book? Stupid: How is psionics stupid, seems fairly cool to me, it's *gasps* different! Im sorry, but this has nothing to do whether or not a DM is good or bad. If Psionics are extremely rare in the DM's world - deal with it. It's the same for Elves, Goats, and Fish. A DM spends a hell of a lot of time creating a world, and nothing annoys me more than some whiney spoilt player who wants to play a particulary RARE class spouts off about how his DM is bad because he wont let him play that class. Also, have you ever considered it many be a financial thing? D&D is expensive, and so is owning all the books. I certainly don't want to DM something in my game that I am not familiar with because I don't own the books. Sure I'll review it and have a look, but there are a lot of things in D&D that are unbalanced and at the end of the day my game is meant to be fun for ALL the characters. I made a 48 page players guide to my own created world that was rich in flavour and highly detailed, but I guess im a bad DM because I don't allow Psionics. Oh well, time to chuck away all my work and make a world where all my players can be 'kewl elite Psionic warriors' - I don't want to be a bad DM now!
Callista 04-05-05, 10:47 PM	Hmm... I think I see both sides of this issue with Psionics. Allowing or not allowing it really isn't the sign of a bad DM; it's just the sign of a different DM. There are a lot of choices out there that don't involve Psionics; and you can get the same sort of character concept easily by just having him discover a talent for sorcery rather than psionic powers. Players and DMs don't NEED psionics to have a good game. Then again, if your world's flavor fits psionics, you're prepared to combat them (with psionic monsters probably), and most of the group (including the DM, of course) has the books--then there's no reason not to include psionics. Psionics is powerful, yes; but then again, so is magic. Psionics, in general, is easier to use than magic; you don't have to worry about preparing powers, and you don't have to worry about having enough powers per level. That makes it more flexible... and, I believe, that is most of its power. A good mage can give any psionicist of his level an even fight, though. Your choices on psionics don't mean you are a bad or good DM; but either choice, if you just make it without thought and arbitrarily, could mean you aren't thinking about your world enough. I've banned them from my game because I don't have the books, for example; but if I had the books and time to study them, then--psionics? Yes. But you can bet my characters will end up combating Yuan-ti or some such. What's good for the players is good for the monsters, after all... :evillaugh
Marcivo Mikdeswer 04-06-05, 11:51 AM	Oh, wait... Here's the one that had really angered me... The curse-obsessed DM also made us roll for race, class, and alignment upon creating a new character. His excuse was that you don't get to choose what you are in real life so why should we be able to choose what we are in a fantasy game? :rolleyes:
Psimind25 04-06-05, 12:10 PM	Hmm... I think I see both sides of this issue with Psionics. Allowing or not allowing it really isn't the sign of a bad DM; it's just the sign of a different DM. There are a lot of choices out there that don't involve Psionics; and you can get the same sort of character concept easily by just having him discover a talent for sorcery rather than psionic powers. Players and DMs don't NEED psionics to have a good game. Then again, if your world's flavor fits psionics, you're prepared to combat them (with psionic monsters probably), and most of the group (including the DM, of course) has the books--then there's no reason not to include psionics. Psionics is powerful, yes; but then again, so is magic. Psionics, in general, is easier to use than magic; you don't have to worry about preparing powers, and you don't have to worry about having enough powers per level. That makes it more flexible... and, I believe, that is most of its power. A good mage can give any psionicist of his level an even fight, though. Your choices on psionics don't mean you are a bad or good DM; but either choice, if you just make it without thought and arbitrarily, could mean you aren't thinking about your world enough. I've banned them from my game because I don't have the books, for example; but if I had the books and time to study them, then--psionics? Yes. But you can bet my characters will end up combating Yuan-ti or some such. What's good for the players is good for the monsters, after all... :evillaugh Im saying Magic classes are too hard to play, ive only really done well with a Psion because the system is easier, and most ZDMs dont understand that I SUCK WITH ARCANE MAGIC! Arcane has WAYYYY to many AOE. Psionics has more. "Affect a certain number of targets.". Allways when I play arcane, the fighters rush in and i cant do a damn thing. and no im not going to utilitize and helkp the fighters. ID rather destroy my enemies than help the fighters metal sticks cut better. Im saying Psionics is easier and safer, and most DM's who dont allow psionics arent being fair to people like me.
Sssargoth 04-06-05, 01:31 PM	I konw of a similar thread to this one, and to help you all out, Ill post the link. RIDICULOUS House Rules - A Place to Vent About Your Crazy DM (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=106389)
Bronswen 04-06-05, 01:33 PM	Im saying Psionics is easier and safer, and most DM's who dont allow psionics arent being fair to people like me.Like has already been said, that's not the sign of a bad DM, just a different DM. It sounds like you need to find a DM who shares your view of psionics, or who is familiar enough with psionics to allow them into his game. I know next to nothing about the psionics system and I don't own the books. Does that mean I'm going to incorporate psionics to cater to a player who doesn't know how to play an arcane caster? Nope. But I might try to demonstrate how an arcane caster can help in combat without resorting to fireball and chain lightning, if that's the player's problem. Bronswen
robertliguori 04-06-05, 02:38 PM	Oh, wait... Here's the one that had really angered me... The curse-obsessed DM also made us roll for race, class, and alignment upon creating a new character. His excuse was that you don't get to choose what you are in real life so why should we be able to choose what we are in a fantasy game? :rolleyes: I had one of those. "My character cuts her throat." *rolls* "Yup, so does this one." *rolls* "And this one, too." *rolls* "Can't I just pick stats, or is my first adventure going to be discovering why thousands of people just comitted suicide?"
Yak of Darkness 04-06-05, 02:49 PM	"Can't I just pick stats, or is my first adventure going to be discovering why thousands of people just comitted suicide?" :cookie: :twocents: :gift: A cookie, my life savings, and a present to you for that line. :D
LCD2YOU 04-06-05, 03:16 PM	they just suck in general. :evillaugh Not having psionics is the sign of a great game. The "Psionics is Overpowered/stupid/pointless/wothless/against world's flavor" Dm. Overpowered: Psionics is NOT overpowered! have any of these DM's even SEEN the new book? Stupid: How is psionics stupid, seems fairly cool to me, it's *gasps* different! Again, you know that's Psionicswere just a way to appease the early gamers and their addiction to "Stars Wars - New Hope" and a character who had the force. Past that it is a gimmick and basically pointless. What's the issue? Pointless: Most DM's say its pointless because arcane can do the same thing. IO arcane has too many rules accociated with it, and arcane doesnt really have muce variety. Arcane is either utility or AoE nuke. Psinics can take many different forms, and its easier to build an effective character from level one, just simply from how disiplines work. Now we see the real issue, easier to build an effective character from level one. Worthless: How are psions etc. worthless? they are a great addition to any party, depending on their disipline? they can be a good dipomat(telepathy) , a spy(Clairsentience), A utilitizer (Metacreativity), a blaster (Psycokinesis) etc. even a Healer! (Psycomatabolism) Flavor: well, Im tired of every D&D world being a Tolkien clone. why not be different? why NOT have Psionics? As I said, they suck. :D Now excuse me I have to go get my Mind Flayer eccounter ready for my group. Ectoplasmic sheild looks good.....
LCD2YOU 04-06-05, 03:27 PM	When your 11th level with escape artist = level + 3 rogue and rope skill at rank 6 rolls a 19 against being tied up by bandits and you hear, "Nope, not good enough". When you hear, "So the BBEG moves 50' and swings at you while moving past, hits, at the end of the 50' grabs the gem of unbelievable might while hitting each of the other players, moves back towards the portal activating the 42 switches and barely makes it and jumps though as his round action.
Bronswen 04-06-05, 03:44 PM	When you hear, "So the BBEG moves 50' and swings at you while moving past, hits, at the end of the 50' grabs the gem of unbelievable might while hitting each of the other players, moves back towards the portal activating the 42 switches and barely makes it and jumps though as his round action.To quote something I've said when I've DMed: "You can't do that! That's like 12 actions!" Bronswen
Alcari Ambaron 04-06-05, 04:04 PM	"It wasn't that hard, you just have to figure it out" this DM builds a vault that is hidden a small niece, inside the well, inside castle's dungeon behind a hidden wall, in a forgotten swamp, on a lost island, behind an unknown coral reef, further away than anyone has ever gone. in this valt he then puts the map to an even more difficult to find vault containing the answer to a puzzle you found in an adventure about 5 years ago (real time) D&D is just like a videogame this DM once played a D&D based videogame and thinks this is how a D&D world should work. this means that the town has the "ye olde magic item shoppe" right next to the completly unknown commoner that will ask the PC's for help, right next to the circus tent infested with highlevel shadow creatures (yes, some gamers will recognise it, a DM i had online once played it) in the middle of town square. This DM will also put the world on Pause when you rest, which you can do in the middle of the streat, and make the one commoner-with-the-quest-critical-information-that-you-absolutly-need-to-know-to-advance, be just like ever one else and impossible to find. Will occansionally allow yoou to Quicksave the world so you can undo your mistakes "One situation has one sollution" Will say things like: Of course your character died. You had to cut the ropes with the pointy rock, NOT use escape artist, that alerted the guards. You had to toss the conveniently placed rock to distract the guards, NOT use Silenced magic. it's so obvious, am i just that good or are you all oblivious to my subtle (nonexistent) clues???
LCD2YOU 04-06-05, 05:40 PM	To quote something I've said when I've DMed: "You can't do that! That's like 12 actions!" Bronswen but other's have already said it: When the DM has an idea how the encounter should go and no contingencies and forces the situation by ramming it down your throat. When the DM doesn't let things happen as they have a STORY TO TELL AND THAT'S NOT IT and it seems you characters are just along for the ride
The_Cowled_One 04-06-05, 05:56 PM	My take on disallowing certain selections during character creation: I have to say that I understand where these DMs are coming from. There are what, 200 possible books to chose races, classes, templates, PRCs, Feats, Spells, even skills in some cases, equipment, and just about everything else from. I've just started DMing, and already I've found there to be almost nothing as annoying as a character who starts the campaign off with "I know that you've never read, seen or heard of this book of erotic fantasy, but I assure you that it all makes perfect sense. So can I make my character a "serpentine" elf?" And then you skim it quickly and notice a lack of level adjustement, coupled with the "scent" ability, not to mention the fact that the book's explanation for this template makes absolutely no sense whatsoever... :eek: I mean, you can't have a constistent game world when you have to keep pulling "oh, yeah, this unique template character with a world-specific PRC just teleported in mysteriously from an otherwise inaccessble alternate plane of existance" every time someone decides to play some wanky character type.
Slider33 04-06-05, 06:16 PM	One that outright says "You die" after doing (or not doing) something that doesn't fit his one and only mystery solution to the problem.
Kolo 04-06-05, 07:54 PM	Again, you know that's Psionicswere just a way to appease the early gamers and their addiction to "Stars Wars - New Hope" and a character who had the force. Past that it is a gimmick and basically pointless. What's the issue Okay, I'm gonna go and give you a bit of friendly advice; Don't go there. As it stands, psionics is a different system with a different flavor that has roots in D&D tradition as much as a wizard and his fireballs do, even if that rep is badly maligned. Some people like it, some don't. I know that people that liked the Dark Sun setting tended to like the psionics that went with it... Oh, and you are aware that D&D was just a gimmick created to cash in on that whole "fantasy" craze that spawned in the years after Lord of the Rings became widespread and popular, right? (Yes, I'm kidding, but that's the generalization you're making.)
Meshakhad 04-06-05, 09:21 PM	Here's what I would do in many of these situations: Refuse. Ignore the DM. Break Rule #0. If the DM forces you to roll up your characters, ignore him. Make a perfectly acceptable, core-only character. Or, grab Sunless Citadel and have everyone (DM included) roll up first-level characters. TAKE OVER THE GAME.
Bloody Tempest 04-07-05, 12:12 AM	"DM's warped logic" DM: you can't do +2d6 damage from skirmish just by moving around, that makes no sense! Meanwhile, the ranger next to me casts Hunter's Mercy, uses Multishot, and shoots, criticaling 3 times (yeah, 3) with just his standard action.
Swiss619 04-07-05, 12:09 PM	I've come to dissalow psionics just because I don't own the books, and therefore can't plan adventures to the stengths/weaknesses of players when I don't know them. As for the "it's stupid" argument ... I'd have to use that logic on the DM who said it. Who cares if the DM likes Psionics, only the Psionisist PC has to. The DMs job is to make a game it's fun to play. I'd actually classify making the "it's stupid" argument as a bad DM trait. If you disallow it, do it for a reason, not because you feel like it.
Bronswen 04-07-05, 12:09 PM	DM: you can't do +2d6 damage from skirmish just by moving around, that makes no sense!I once had a DM who said a rogue couldn't sneak attack in the first round of combat if his opponent hadn't acted yet (and was thus flat-footed). The DM's logic: "He saw you coming! You shouldn't be able to sneak attack him!" Bronswen
LCD2YOU 04-07-05, 12:40 PM	Okay, I'm gonna go and give you a bit of friendly advice; Don't go there. As it stands, psionics is a different system with a different flavor that has roots in D&D tradition as much as a wizard and his fireballs do, even if that rep is badly maligned. Some people like it, some don't. I know that people that liked the Dark Sun setting tended to like the psionics that went with it... Oh, and you are aware that D&D was just a gimmick created to cash in on that whole "fantasy" craze that spawned in the years after Lord of the Rings became widespread and popular, right? (Yes, I'm kidding, but that's the generalization you're making.) Read the rest of my post. It is nothing but satire. Yes, I am aware of the "pagan roots" of D&D with Gary and Dave. Still have the original books from the boxed set. OBTW, never read LoTR but I've seen the movies.
Tuneless Bard 04-07-05, 01:55 PM	Will occansionally allow yoou to Quicksave the world so you can undo your mistakes. I actually allow characters to spend 5 (modified)action points to leave what i call a "temporal marker". Which is a virtual save point, seems to work out fine and it keeps things fun. Apparently Im a good DM because of it....isnt that strange, cause thats the opposite of what you said i should be...
Alcari Ambaron 04-07-05, 02:48 PM	Apparently Im a good DM because of it....isnt that strange, cause thats the opposite of what you said i should be... 1. your players spent action points to do it, they don't get to do it EVERY time they charge into battle without tactics, die, and "reload". They then do the exact same thing again and hope for better rolls..... 2. that depend on how much realism you want, if you play a very realistic game, then it is quite strange.....
Tuneless Bard 04-07-05, 03:27 PM	My point is... What makes one DM bad in a players eyes....makes him good in another players eyes... and its not about what you do...its about how you do it... Its about adapting to your group....not about adapting to a set standard... therefore i find this intire thread to utterly pointless... I feel bad for the DMs who have been spoken of in this thread...its a hard job...just sounds like they missed thier target audience...thats all....doesnt neccisarily make them bad DMs...just bad for that group...
Bronswen 04-07-05, 03:36 PM	therefore i find this intire thread to utterly pointless...Hear that, everyone? Nothing to see here, move along. :rolleyes: Bronswen
KillerOdin 04-07-05, 03:40 PM	The Monster loving DM: It a DM who loves to get new books, and throws the "Improved" Monster at you, he spends the week before the game, searching the boards for ways to improve the monster, and how to run it at maximum killing effectiveness, then he makes sure you have to fight in a situation were it has the advantage, like on a ship, in the middle of the night, when you have no spells, and everyone has 1/2 hp. Then he will have an utter break down when the party kills it in 5 rounds, because the wizard had a scroll of slow. I dont mind a good monster fight, but every session should not be a boss fight, and most important I belive more so than rule 0 is that the monsters are ment to be killed. I dont care how cool it is or what it could have done, it dies we gain xp and we move on with our RP lives. Ok venting done :cool:
Convict24601 04-07-05, 04:49 PM	What I love is when all of the NPC's are privy to your most secret plans. It doesn't matter to the GM if your characters are behind 6 walls of force, with silence cast on each member, using a telepathic bond, with non-detection, speaking in a code that each party member developed with a special feat, reinforced with custom epic level spells, the BBEG and all his henchmen will know everything you've been planning. Those are my favorite GM's.
speeblefreak 04-07-05, 09:05 PM	I'm not railroading, that just doesn't work.[B/] Example: The party enters the bedroom in an elven palace, then they immediately hear a mysterious announcment. PCs: We go back outside. DM: If you can shift the 30-ft cube of stone on the other side of the door. [B] Hey, it isn't called a breath weapon for nothing. The dragon falls asleep, yawns, and...pass 6d10. You dragon pet breathes a little too heavily...pass the d6s.
speeblefreak 04-07-05, 09:25 PM	On the way down a cliff, the DM told us it was a 3,000 foot high cliff. Easy for a few levitation spells to handle. So when we had to go back up, the cliff had mysteriously ballooned to a few hundred MILES high. :tantrum:
Best DM ever 04-08-05, 03:31 AM	I have spent a lot of time both as a DM and as a player, and I have gotten so frustrated with some players that I am considering quitting... The solution? I made up some rules to make everyone play better... #1 I don't calculate experience for every monster.. I figure it out at the end. There's no long pauses in between encounters to bore the PCs #2 The PCs only get 75% of the experience, the rest comes from bonuses. THe first bonus.. A Flair bonus... for every level, the PC has to do something really cool, that deserves retelling at a later time. This earns them a 15% bonus... The other one, a Roleplaying bonus. The PC has to do something that shows dedication to the character, or developes something about the character for future use...IE: A character with a fear of heights pauses while a horde of orcs pursues them, because he is afraid to cross a narrow bridge over a chasm. Of course, this is too stressful for every encounter, I limit it to once every adventure. #3 Because every once in a while something goes wrong for the PCs (unlucky dice), they are allowed one reroll per character, per level. Once they use it, there's no more. Of course, it has saved them from several saves vs poison, death, and fire. #4 NO DROW...Drizzt Do'Urden is cool....granted, but the underdark all looks the same...give me open spaces.....Drow have become far too predictable. Basically, The DM is a player too, and plays to be entertained as well. If you want to play a hack and slash game, get a playstation. Keep your DM entertained, and he will be more willing to entertain you... Or just kick him/her in the *********, everybody has to be reasonable
Marcivo Mikdeswer 04-08-05, 11:54 AM	Oh, and here're two more from the guy I mentioned twice earlier. He also will not allow anyone to ascend 20th level aside from elves on the claim that they simply "do not live long enough." He hardly let anyone play elves. Funny his brother got to play a "chaotic good" elven necromancer. The guy continued to have his 10th level character attack my first level thief because he said that "in Toril, all Elves hate humans." I have yet to read that in the FRCS. And, as you probably have noticed, the DM wouldn't let you start the game at a level near the other characters'. Even if the others were 21st, you'd have to start as a 1st level character and had to tag along during those 21st level encounters. That and he wouldn't let you play a bard unless you could actually play the instrument in real life. You had to play the instrument if your character was playing it in game. He (the DM) also had to know how to read written music for the said instrument. He knew not how to play any instrument...much less write music for one. As you probably have concluded, we never had any bards. Argh for stupid house rules. :tantrum:
Maerdash 04-08-05, 01:27 PM	The only bad dms are the ones who forget that they are not the god of the coffe table oh and mine you know the guy who rules that meta magic feats are to weak and says that all meta magic only raises spell level by one...yeah thats smart