13th level and lower party vs Demon [Archive] - Wizards Community

13th level and lower party vs Demon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Montieth
09-26-05, 09:47 AM So our party of a Sorcerer/Wiz/DD (10th/1/1), Cleric (13th), Rogue/Fighter, Bard, Fighter/Cleric and unknown NPC are up against a Demon. (the other characters are 8th or below except for the NPC). We have the ability to pop off in part to get things but we're in a magic poor area. What tricks do folks have for dealing with demons? It's a Glabrezu that's been stuck in this one library for 250 years or so. It got there by the usual wizard in commerce with demons and the demon went amok and the wizard and his guild trapped it in the library.

Our one extra problem is that there may be 4 more demons in the room with the Gabrezu, we can't be sure. The notes we've found show there to be 4 more, we did come across 4 dretches earlier on. But the syntax of the note makes it seem as of the "4" are trapped with the Glabrezu.

Ideas? Anti-Magic field would be ideal for bringing the Demon down a few pegs. Would Targeted Dispel magics every round from the sorcerer be useful against the demon's spell like abilities? He has some good buffs and skills for fighting against normal creatures, but no heavy hitting spells against demons (yet). I suppose a baleful polymorph might be a thought. Try it four or five times. Though the spell resistance of 21 and fort save of 18 are a bit tall to beat.
Bopple
09-26-05, 09:57 AM 1. Easiest way would be; have your 13th lvl cleric prepare 1 Assay Resistance & several Dismissal's.

2. If the demon has standard glabrezu HD, then you can paralyze it with Holy Word, using a Bead of Karma.
WombleHunter
09-26-05, 10:19 AM When fighting outsiders of any kind, I have founf Dimensional Anchor to be invaluable - else they just Teleport away until they are ready to come back and get you. An Anti-Magic Field would work just as well, just be sure to have all the party fighters ready to pounce.

If you have time to prepare, a cleric can pick some fantastic anti-outsider spells.
Montieth
09-26-05, 11:06 AM 1. Easiest way would be; have your 13th lvl cleric prepare 1 Assay Resistance & several Dismissal's.

That'd be great, but we need to kill the demon (Glabrezu) to sever it's link with an item of power. (Duchrochan, a cauldron that would resurrect the dead, but instead, it sends the souls to the abyss and makes the dead undead.)

2. If the demon has standard glabrezu HD, then you can paralyze it with Holy Word, using a Bead of Karma.

Hmm. Not a bad idea. Our usual tactics for big bad things is to polymorph and buff the fighters to deal with the bad guy. While the spell casters provide support. But, the Demon will be able to deal out so much damage per round that we'll need to smack him hard to reduce his power. That's why I was thinking Anti-Magic Field, but that's 2 levels away. We can pop off to a safe place I think to level up (house rule, you must be safe to level up) but that'll only get us higher ranking players a single level.
Phrennzy
09-27-05, 09:17 AM Anti-Magic Field is not a good idea simply because the spellcasters become useless, and the fighters have a harder time getting past all that damage reduction.

Use Align Weapon on the fighter's weapons.
Dimensional Anchor that sucker in place.
Haste everybody.
Have the Sorc stand back with readied Dispel Magics (to neutralize the Demon's attempt to blow the buffs)
Charge.

Concentrate on bringing the big boy down first. He is a wrecking machine. And he's also the reason you are there. Don't seperate. Get the rogue in to flank, and go to town.
Montieth
09-27-05, 10:36 AM Anti-Magic Field is not a good idea simply because the spellcasters become useless, and the fighters have a harder time getting past all that damage reduction.

That's true, the fighters stepping into the AMF to fight will loose buffs, magical weapons, etc. Though, we could do the old x3 12 headed Cryo hydra trick and hit him with normal attacks. I think he'd loose his SU bonuses and resistance (damage reduction) no? 12 attacks per round x3 is a lot of hits. We used this on a single frost worm, though, the resulting explosion of ice killed an NPC party member and all our horses. :(

Use Align Weapon on the fighter's weapons.
Dimensional Anchor that sucker in place.
Haste everybody.
Have the Sorc stand back with readied Dispel Magics (to neutralize the Demon's attempt to blow the buffs)
Charge.

We don't need dimensional Anchor thank goodness. The Demon is trapped in the library (but not with the lead pipe, heh) and is acting as a conduit for an object of power. He can't leave, but more over, once we enter, we can't leave either until the demon is vanquished.

Will the Dispel Magic's work on the demon's SU spell like abilities?

Concentrate on bringing the big boy down first. He is a wrecking machine. And he's also the reason you are there. Don't seperate. Get the rogue in to flank, and go to town.

Problem is, if he has three vrocks, they can start the dance of ruin and smash us to bits. So we'll have to get him down to 2 Vrocks. I'm hoping that the demon does not have 4 additional demons with him and that the 4 were the Dretches we fought earlier. 4 Dretches seems like an awfully small number.
Phrennzy
09-27-05, 10:53 AM If it's a Glabrezu and 3 Vrocks, it's a bit much for your party.

You may be right about Dispel not workingo n his SU abilities.

Damage Reduction doesnt go away in an AntiMagic Field.
Kalrin
09-27-05, 03:41 PM Well... I'm going to go with some age old advice:

If you can't kill it in a fair fight, either Drop a Mountain on it, or Drop it down a Very Deep Hole.

Now, in the interests of me trying to be more helpful, what kind of structure is the Library located in?
Montieth
09-27-05, 04:31 PM Now, in the interests of me trying to be more helpful, what kind of structure is the Library located in?

The "Lost" First Pillar of Knowledge of the land that we're on. Basically a great bloody library. The Entry foyer was a great 100'x100'x100' traingle shaped library with stairs down to the lower level where this other library is which contains the demon. The 2nd Library is where all the really good books and material is.
Kalrin
09-28-05, 08:40 AM Yeah, so Flooding the Room isn't exactly an Option...

that's somewhat of a pity...

You've got a Down staircase though. Now remember that a Falling object deals 1d6 points of damage per 200 lbs of weight, and if a 200+ lb object deals an extra 1d6 pts. of damage for every 20 feet it falls. All of this requires that the object falls at least 10 feet. Damage still maxes out at 20d6

So my suggestion: Get a 4000 lb rock. Suspend it over the down staircase. Run down, bait a demon, run back, drop the rock on the demon. you'll do a minimum of 10 points of damage and the average should be about 60 points. Not much, but a 4000 lb rock does tend to block an entrance way as well. Now for every 20 feet of height in the ceiling, you can decrease our rocks weight by 200 lbs, making it easier to find such a rock.

Now another option also is to remember the great combo: Stone to Mud and Mud to Stone. These are 6th level spells, so it looks like you'll need a pair of scrolls. However, if you cast Stone to Mud on the floor, the big nasty should sink into the floor. Then Mud to Stone should encase it hip deep (or ankle deep) in solid stone. That causes them to lose a fair degree of mobility (which can be quite useful).

More suggestions to come later.
Red_Ninja
09-28-05, 02:08 PM holy water! if your GM uses holy water- smashing a vial on a demon sounds like a ranged touch attack to me! - if you are circa 12th lvl, do you have access to summon monster type spells? you might consider the good a couple extra bodies might have...
can your cleric ask for divine aid?
acid spells penetrate demon DR ( i think) so melf's acid arrow and other acid attacks are good, (you don't have a gelatinous cube handy do you?)
hold monster could keep a vrock/dretch out of the fight for a while (maybe empower it to bump up the DC?)
Can the wizards in the library help?
Kalrin
09-28-05, 04:36 PM acid spells penetrate demon DR ( i think) so melf's acid arrow and other acid attacks are good, (you don't have a gelatinous cube handy do you?)

Any spell penetrates DR, however, the Glabrezu has Resist Acid 10. Ordinarily I would suggest Magic Missile since each missle breaks SR independently, but it doesn't do enough damage fast enough.

On a side note.... As your party has a Cleric of 13th level, you have access to Deeper Darkness and True Seeing. So another strategy might be to cast True Seeing on your party. Then, when you engage your foes, cast Deeper Darkness. Now since the Glabrezu has True Seeing, in won't inhibit the Glabrezu. But almost any other Demon won't be able to see. Now your Fighter/Rogue can sneak attack at will. This will increase his damage output.

So the other 4 trapped with the Glabrezu become less of an issue.
LordHell
09-28-05, 09:17 PM Has your party encountered a Glabrezu before? Or got someone with a very high Knowledge(The Planes) skill? Or does your party have detailed information about a Glabrezu from somewhere?

Otherwise this thread is blatant metagaming, and as a DM I'd be quite annoyed that my party whom encountered their first Demon knew exactly how to counter it with no prior knowledge.

If you keep up this kind of behaviour, you might just find monsters carrying around hats of disguise, potions that protect their vulnerabilities, wrong coloured Dragons, and so forth.
Bopple
09-28-05, 09:43 PM You cannot use True Seeing to pierce darkness.
Montieth
10-26-05, 11:42 AM So, we buffed like the dickens, Summoned two Archons, polymorphed 4 party members into treants, a troll and a hydra and then entered the library. There in we found the Glabrezu and two Vrocks (there was a dretch at the entry room, hardly a problem). We killed the Glabrezu in 2 rounds, the 1st Vrock in round 3 and the 2nd one in round 4. :D By the time the 1st vrock was down we were getting rather confident about the demon fighting thing. No-one suffered against any fear effects because of all the various buffs we had up from bless, courage, angels nearby, polymorph effects, etc.

So now we have all these books as treasure and one artifact, A Book of Vile Darkness...We're all good characters...:confused:
Phrennzy
10-26-05, 03:29 PM For answers to that question, we'll go to the thread you started about it :D

That Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=525666)
Lincoln Hills
10-26-05, 03:32 PM So now we have... a Book of Vile Darkness...We're all good characters...

Well, then, you'll probably gain credit for a fairly major Good Deed if you destroy that book. If your DM is using Exalted Deeds there are some more productive options, I think; but that's up to him. And the longer you tote it around, the more likely some evil priest will come after you in hopes of acquiring a free level.

(Although - would you mind running an experiment for me? Would you open the Book in the direction of a single-classed, non-evil barbarian? I have a small bet riding on what would happen. :smirk: )

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Montieth 09-26-05, 09:47 AM	So our party of a Sorcerer/Wiz/DD (10th/1/1), Cleric (13th), Rogue/Fighter, Bard, Fighter/Cleric and unknown NPC are up against a Demon. (the other characters are 8th or below except for the NPC). We have the ability to pop off in part to get things but we're in a magic poor area. What tricks do folks have for dealing with demons? It's a Glabrezu that's been stuck in this one library for 250 years or so. It got there by the usual wizard in commerce with demons and the demon went amok and the wizard and his guild trapped it in the library. Our one extra problem is that there may be 4 more demons in the room with the Gabrezu, we can't be sure. The notes we've found show there to be 4 more, we did come across 4 dretches earlier on. But the syntax of the note makes it seem as of the "4" are trapped with the Glabrezu. Ideas? Anti-Magic field would be ideal for bringing the Demon down a few pegs. Would Targeted Dispel magics every round from the sorcerer be useful against the demon's spell like abilities? He has some good buffs and skills for fighting against normal creatures, but no heavy hitting spells against demons (yet). I suppose a baleful polymorph might be a thought. Try it four or five times. Though the spell resistance of 21 and fort save of 18 are a bit tall to beat.
Bopple 09-26-05, 09:57 AM	1. Easiest way would be; have your 13th lvl cleric prepare 1 Assay Resistance & several Dismissal's. 2. If the demon has standard glabrezu HD, then you can paralyze it with Holy Word, using a Bead of Karma.
WombleHunter 09-26-05, 10:19 AM	When fighting outsiders of any kind, I have founf Dimensional Anchor to be invaluable - else they just Teleport away until they are ready to come back and get you. An Anti-Magic Field would work just as well, just be sure to have all the party fighters ready to pounce. If you have time to prepare, a cleric can pick some fantastic anti-outsider spells.
Montieth 09-26-05, 11:06 AM	1. Easiest way would be; have your 13th lvl cleric prepare 1 Assay Resistance & several Dismissal's. That'd be great, but we need to kill the demon (Glabrezu) to sever it's link with an item of power. (Duchrochan, a cauldron that would resurrect the dead, but instead, it sends the souls to the abyss and makes the dead undead.) 2. If the demon has standard glabrezu HD, then you can paralyze it with Holy Word, using a Bead of Karma. Hmm. Not a bad idea. Our usual tactics for big bad things is to polymorph and buff the fighters to deal with the bad guy. While the spell casters provide support. But, the Demon will be able to deal out so much damage per round that we'll need to smack him hard to reduce his power. That's why I was thinking Anti-Magic Field, but that's 2 levels away. We can pop off to a safe place I think to level up (house rule, you must be safe to level up) but that'll only get us higher ranking players a single level.
Phrennzy 09-27-05, 09:17 AM	Anti-Magic Field is not a good idea simply because the spellcasters become useless, and the fighters have a harder time getting past all that damage reduction. Use Align Weapon on the fighter's weapons. Dimensional Anchor that sucker in place. Haste everybody. Have the Sorc stand back with readied Dispel Magics (to neutralize the Demon's attempt to blow the buffs) Charge. Concentrate on bringing the big boy down first. He is a wrecking machine. And he's also the reason you are there. Don't seperate. Get the rogue in to flank, and go to town.
Montieth 09-27-05, 10:36 AM	Anti-Magic Field is not a good idea simply because the spellcasters become useless, and the fighters have a harder time getting past all that damage reduction. That's true, the fighters stepping into the AMF to fight will loose buffs, magical weapons, etc. Though, we could do the old x3 12 headed Cryo hydra trick and hit him with normal attacks. I think he'd loose his SU bonuses and resistance (damage reduction) no? 12 attacks per round x3 is a lot of hits. We used this on a single frost worm, though, the resulting explosion of ice killed an NPC party member and all our horses. :( Use Align Weapon on the fighter's weapons. Dimensional Anchor that sucker in place. Haste everybody. Have the Sorc stand back with readied Dispel Magics (to neutralize the Demon's attempt to blow the buffs) Charge. We don't need dimensional Anchor thank goodness. The Demon is trapped in the library (but not with the lead pipe, heh) and is acting as a conduit for an object of power. He can't leave, but more over, once we enter, we can't leave either until the demon is vanquished. Will the Dispel Magic's work on the demon's SU spell like abilities? Concentrate on bringing the big boy down first. He is a wrecking machine. And he's also the reason you are there. Don't seperate. Get the rogue in to flank, and go to town. Problem is, if he has three vrocks, they can start the dance of ruin and smash us to bits. So we'll have to get him down to 2 Vrocks. I'm hoping that the demon does not have 4 additional demons with him and that the 4 were the Dretches we fought earlier. 4 Dretches seems like an awfully small number.
Phrennzy 09-27-05, 10:53 AM	If it's a Glabrezu and 3 Vrocks, it's a bit much for your party. You may be right about Dispel not workingo n his SU abilities. Damage Reduction doesnt go away in an AntiMagic Field.
Kalrin 09-27-05, 03:41 PM	Well... I'm going to go with some age old advice: If you can't kill it in a fair fight, either Drop a Mountain on it, or Drop it down a Very Deep Hole. Now, in the interests of me trying to be more helpful, what kind of structure is the Library located in?
Montieth 09-27-05, 04:31 PM	Now, in the interests of me trying to be more helpful, what kind of structure is the Library located in? The "Lost" First Pillar of Knowledge of the land that we're on. Basically a great bloody library. The Entry foyer was a great 100'x100'x100' traingle shaped library with stairs down to the lower level where this other library is which contains the demon. The 2nd Library is where all the really good books and material is.
Kalrin 09-28-05, 08:40 AM	Yeah, so Flooding the Room isn't exactly an Option... that's somewhat of a pity... You've got a Down staircase though. Now remember that a Falling object deals 1d6 points of damage per 200 lbs of weight, and if a 200+ lb object deals an extra 1d6 pts. of damage for every 20 feet it falls. All of this requires that the object falls at least 10 feet. Damage still maxes out at 20d6 So my suggestion: Get a 4000 lb rock. Suspend it over the down staircase. Run down, bait a demon, run back, drop the rock on the demon. you'll do a minimum of 10 points of damage and the average should be about 60 points. Not much, but a 4000 lb rock does tend to block an entrance way as well. Now for every 20 feet of height in the ceiling, you can decrease our rocks weight by 200 lbs, making it easier to find such a rock. Now another option also is to remember the great combo: Stone to Mud and Mud to Stone. These are 6th level spells, so it looks like you'll need a pair of scrolls. However, if you cast Stone to Mud on the floor, the big nasty should sink into the floor. Then Mud to Stone should encase it hip deep (or ankle deep) in solid stone. That causes them to lose a fair degree of mobility (which can be quite useful). More suggestions to come later.
Red_Ninja 09-28-05, 02:08 PM	holy water! if your GM uses holy water- smashing a vial on a demon sounds like a ranged touch attack to me! - if you are circa 12th lvl, do you have access to summon monster type spells? you might consider the good a couple extra bodies might have... can your cleric ask for divine aid? acid spells penetrate demon DR ( i think) so melf's acid arrow and other acid attacks are good, (you don't have a gelatinous cube handy do you?) hold monster could keep a vrock/dretch out of the fight for a while (maybe empower it to bump up the DC?) Can the wizards in the library help?
Kalrin 09-28-05, 04:36 PM	acid spells penetrate demon DR ( i think) so melf's acid arrow and other acid attacks are good, (you don't have a gelatinous cube handy do you?) Any spell penetrates DR, however, the Glabrezu has Resist Acid 10. Ordinarily I would suggest Magic Missile since each missle breaks SR independently, but it doesn't do enough damage fast enough. On a side note.... As your party has a Cleric of 13th level, you have access to Deeper Darkness and True Seeing. So another strategy might be to cast True Seeing on your party. Then, when you engage your foes, cast Deeper Darkness. Now since the Glabrezu has True Seeing, in won't inhibit the Glabrezu. But almost any other Demon won't be able to see. Now your Fighter/Rogue can sneak attack at will. This will increase his damage output. So the other 4 trapped with the Glabrezu become less of an issue.
LordHell 09-28-05, 09:17 PM	Has your party encountered a Glabrezu before? Or got someone with a very high Knowledge(The Planes) skill? Or does your party have detailed information about a Glabrezu from somewhere? Otherwise this thread is blatant metagaming, and as a DM I'd be quite annoyed that my party whom encountered their first Demon knew exactly how to counter it with no prior knowledge. If you keep up this kind of behaviour, you might just find monsters carrying around hats of disguise, potions that protect their vulnerabilities, wrong coloured Dragons, and so forth.
Bopple 09-28-05, 09:43 PM	You cannot use True Seeing to pierce darkness.
Montieth 10-26-05, 11:42 AM	So, we buffed like the dickens, Summoned two Archons, polymorphed 4 party members into treants, a troll and a hydra and then entered the library. There in we found the Glabrezu and two Vrocks (there was a dretch at the entry room, hardly a problem). We killed the Glabrezu in 2 rounds, the 1st Vrock in round 3 and the 2nd one in round 4. :D By the time the 1st vrock was down we were getting rather confident about the demon fighting thing. No-one suffered against any fear effects because of all the various buffs we had up from bless, courage, angels nearby, polymorph effects, etc. So now we have all these books as treasure and one artifact, A Book of Vile Darkness...We're all good characters...:confused:
Phrennzy 10-26-05, 03:29 PM	For answers to that question, we'll go to the thread you started about it :D That Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=525666)
Lincoln Hills 10-26-05, 03:32 PM	So now we have... a Book of Vile Darkness...We're all good characters... Well, then, you'll probably gain credit for a fairly major Good Deed if you destroy that book. If your DM is using Exalted Deeds there are some more productive options, I think; but that's up to him. And the longer you tote it around, the more likely some evil priest will come after you in hopes of acquiring a free level. (Although - would you mind running an experiment for me? Would you open the Book in the direction of a single-classed, non-evil barbarian? I have a small bet riding on what would happen. :smirk: )