Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eminon 08-30-07, 11:49 PM	Ok, just seeking a little advice here guys, as I think my party is in a bit over it's head. Due to recent group downsizing, there's only two party members. I am playing a 4th lvl Half Elf Barbarian, and my partner is a 4th lvl Halfling Thief. We are in a rural campaign setting, with no access to any magical equipment other than a couple of healing potions, minor scrolls and an everburning torch we've looted. The campaign thus far has seen us foiling a few minor plots, and eventually beating a vampire spawn and tracking him to a castle. Once inside, and after a brief encounter with another(or possibly the same) vampire kin, we (through some strange quirk of luck) find a room with two coffins almost immediately. I got in a quick surprise round attack on the vampire, but the next round he hit me with a spiked chain for 43 out of 45 of my hp. My partner rips off a quick web scroll, which I evade but the vampire rolls lousy on, and we escape into the dawn. Now, other than just giving up and exploring the rest of the world, does anyone have any suggestions on how two 4th lvl characters with nil magic access can take down a vampire? There are no npc magic users at all in the area, we have access to the basic equipment from the player's handbook, nothing fancy, and we are basically on a huge plantation setting with the vampire's castle near the center and walls around it, and there is one river through the place that we may be able to use to our advantage. Any suggestions would be helpful.
wizarddog 08-31-07, 01:26 AM	Well, you might want a cleric and not wizard. 1. Since you able to use magic device to cast a scroll you can see if you can get some low level cleric spells that may help. 1st lv Protection from evil (add to your +2 AC) Any curing spell or wand can damage undead with a touch attack 2nd lv Consecrate (this will weaken the undead.) 2. You need silver weapons to get past Damage Resistance 4. See if you can get Alchemist fire and use that against him. The Fire damage will bypass the DR/silver. Also Holy water is effective. 3. You can use any of the standard Vampire weaknesses. You should be able to get these items but be wary on the holding at bay-they do have "hypno powers" to get you to put down your protection. Vampire Weaknesses For all their power, vampires have a number of weaknesses. Repelling a Vampire: Vampires cannot tolerate the strong odor of garlic and will not enter an area laced with it. Similarly, they recoil from a mirror or a strongly presented holy symbol. These things don’t harm the vampire—they merely keep it at bay. A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from a creature holding the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against the creature holding the item for the rest of the encounter. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action. Vampires are also unable to cross running water, although they can be carried over it while resting in their coffins or aboard a ship. They are utterly unable to enter a home or other building unless invited in by someone with the authority to do so. They may freely enter public places, since these are by definition open to all. Slaying a Vampire: Reducing a vampire’s hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesn’t always destroy it (see the note on fast healing). However, certain attacks can slay vampires. Exposing any vampire to direct sunlight disorients it: It can take only a single move action or attack action and is destroyed utterly in the next round if it cannot escape. Similarly, immersing a vampire in running water robs it of one-third of its hit points each round until it is destroyed at the end of the third round of immersion. Driving a wooden stake through a vampire’s heart instantly slays the monster. However, it returns to life if the stake is removed, unless the body is destroyed. A popular tactic is to cut off the creature’s head and fill its mouth with holy wafers (or their equivalent).
Eminon 08-31-07, 01:47 AM	Unfortunately, most of these ideas won't work. There are no npc clerics, as there are no (current) npc spell casters at all. Not a mage, not a bard, not a druid, nothing. Silver weaponry might be do-able, but only if we melt down our own silver pieces for the weapons. The local smith is basically a farm town smith, he knows how to make most things, but there's no call for a lot of weapons, and silver is expensive, so it's not a stock item. Alchemist fire might be available, but holy water is out of the question. As for the weaknesses, garlic might be doable, a mirror is probably out of the question. I was planning on using the river as an escape rout anyways. And unfortunately, since he is basically the owner of this large plantation estate, he is also technically the owner of any building there-in, making them not so good sanctuaries. I've been trying to come up with ways to lure it into sunlight, or somehow force it into the river, but I think it will be unlikely to face us outside, most likely sending lower level monsters at us in the interm. Staking it through the heart would probably require a nat 20, as I would get -4 penalty for improvised weapon (stake), -4 for a called shot, and am only sitting at a 4BaB. Catching him in his coffin during the day is no good, as it is many levels away from sunlight, allowing him to be active during the day. That all said, I do really appreciate your help. This is just an exteremely tight situation, and short of trying to tunnel through the dirt directly into the casket chamber, or blowing the castle sky high (both probably near impossible under current conditions), I'm at a loss as to how to effectively tackle this situation. Thanks for the input, though.
AlanBruce 08-31-07, 02:02 AM	A single barbarian 4 and rogue 4 will not be a match against a vampire, especially after the adverse conditions you have described. Mechanically, it is impossible. Chances are the vampire has spies all over his land, so expect to be caught wherever you think it's "safe" once night comes around. Even if you do manage to get him in a 2 vs. 1 battle, from what i've read, this vampire is no mere spawn, the guy owns a land and a castle, so perhaps a few levels of aristocrat or adept, if not a class straight out of the PHB. Some scenarios are not meant to be fought, but merely avoided. Take the advantage of daylight, get a wagon and a few sturdy horses and leave those accursed lands in search for further adventure. One day, if you're still willing, when the barbarian and rogue have attained greater skill and power, return to face said vampire (yeah, i know, it's hardcore metagaming, but it's that, or a TPK).
wizarddog 08-31-07, 02:07 AM	Set his plantation on fire. Make him come to you on your own turf. Set traps for him to trigger using the alchemist fire or oil. Once he has been reduced to 0 hp he turns into gaseous form and is helpless for at least an hour. You know where his coffin is and can get him then. If you can prevent him from returning in 2hrs after in gaseous form then he will die as well.;)
Stormbrand 08-31-07, 04:06 AM	River running through the place? As in his castle? Prepare a flood in the daytime. Dam the river as it runs through or past his castle - while flooding the water is running (although it will be standing water afterwards). Keeping the coffin many levels away from sunlight implies underground - which will be first to flood unless the entire complex is water-tight. Granted, this will be a huge nightmare to claim and loot the castle afterwards, but it kills the vampires quite nicely.
DrMorganes 08-31-07, 09:07 AM	Played properly, a vampire is a serious challenge for a standard party. You're effective party level is 2, vs a vampire with a minimum CR of 3 (and that's assuming a 1HD base creature). If you had access to two scrolls of Protection from Evil, you could do it with some serious planning and a little luck. PfE renders you immune to mind-controlling spells and effects of evil creatures in addition to that +2 AC bonus. Even so, the Children of the Night ability is going to be a major headache. If the vamp gets wind of your approach and calls a pack of 3-18 wolves, you're dog food before you even get close to the bloodsucker. I'm AlanBruce on this one: this is not a fight you can reasonably win. Pack up and leave town with a promise to return with reinforcements.
metalmayhem80110 08-31-07, 03:36 PM	Havn't you ever heard of getting the town involved? You get them to help you, make sure they all have torches and pitchforks and try it.
Cartigan 08-31-07, 04:21 PM	Havn't you ever heard of getting the town involved? You get them to help you, make sure they all have torches and pitchforks and try it. I'm sure a pitchfork mob of level 1s will really add to the decently equipped level 4 adventurers vs a bunch of vampires :rolleyes:
vegetalss4 08-31-07, 04:37 PM	vampyres can minimum have 5 hit dice. that means no cr3 to you.
Evil Glowstick 08-31-07, 05:10 PM	Fire.... lots of fire. Get a bunch of sticks and twigs and anything flamable. How effective this stratgy is also depends on the layout of their place becuase actually fighting them seems to be not an option. Some one did say get some villagers and even a commoner with a burning stick can do some damage and even more if there are 20 or so. Could you sneak in durring the daytime and brun their coffins while they sleep in them? Hook a rope up to the coffin and have a horse pull them out into the daylight. It will take some luck and it also depends on how the DM plays the vamps but this fight can be won... as long as its not an Actual fight.
Nephlite 08-31-07, 05:19 PM	Ok, just seeking a little advice here guys, as I think my party is in a bit over it's head. Due to recent group downsizing, there's only two party members. I am playing a 4th lvl Half Elf Barbarian, and my partner is a 4th lvl Halfling Thief. We are in a rural campaign setting, with no access to any magical equipment other than a couple of healing potions, minor scrolls and an everburning torch we've looted. The campaign thus far has seen us foiling a few minor plots, and eventually beating a vampire spawn and tracking him to a castle. Once inside, and after a brief encounter with another(or possibly the same) vampire kin, we (through some strange quirk of luck) find a room with two coffins almost immediately. I got in a quick surprise round attack on the vampire, but the next round he hit me with a spiked chain for 43 out of 45 of my hp. My partner rips off a quick web scroll, which I evade but the vampire rolls lousy on, and we escape into the dawn. Now, other than just giving up and exploring the rest of the world, does anyone have any suggestions on how two 4th lvl characters with nil magic access can take down a vampire? There are no npc magic users at all in the area, we have access to the basic equipment from the player's handbook, nothing fancy, and we are basically on a huge plantation setting with the vampire's castle near the center and walls around it, and there is one river through the place that we may be able to use to our advantage. Any suggestions would be helpful. You have to force the Vamp vack to his coffin and stake him. Only way you can win. Problem is how to get him there. After you Webbed him: you should have checked the other coffins and staked any vamps you see: less vamps=easier job. 43 damage? Must be a Crit. Tanglefoot bags exist? These will stick the vamp in place. Your job is not to kill the vamp, but you need to scout out his area. Catching him in his coffin during the day is no good, as it is many levels away from sunlight, allowing him to be active during the day. Active underground? Does the building have no windows? Break them open would release sunlight. Sunlight is best defense.
ridiculous 08-31-07, 05:20 PM	Burn the plantation during the day, the buildings, the fields, everything. Then flood the place. Then get the angry mob. Then get the heck away.
Drag0nUL 08-31-07, 05:27 PM	I would have to agree with most of the people here. this is not a fight you can reasonably win. A vampire has a minimum of 5 HD, so that's at least CR 7 for 2 4th level chars. Doesn't sound impossible on paper, but in actual game you might find it is. First, you have no way to match the vampire's mobility. Even if you can corner him somehow all he has to do is use gaseous form and disappear through the floor/ceiling/walls. By the time you reach his new location he is back to full health. Secondly, don't even think of trying to fight him without scrolls of Prot. from Evil. None of you probably has too good will saves so you could get dominated pretty fast. So, I have to say it is either a DM's plot device requiring a specific strategy to beat or it's clearly time to withdraw and come back another day.
Dog_O_War 08-31-07, 05:43 PM	If I had more information on the location of the vampire's coffin, then this suggestion I will make will seem either really good or really stupid; sunder a hole from the outside to his coffin chamber (retreating before night falls of course). Once there you have a very effective weapon against it (the sun when it rises), and I bet your DM would never have thought of something so insane. This might take a day or two to complete; if you have to go through any significant amount of stone though (a foot or two isn't that bad, and that is stone, not dirt) just forget it and try something else.
Eminon 08-31-07, 05:57 PM	First, allow me to clarify a couple of misconceptions I wasn't clear about. We tracked a Vampire Spawn (after giving him a sound bashing) back to the castle. Once inside, we again fought a Vampire Spawn, and beat him into retreating. After giving further chase, we found a coffin room with two coffins. One opened up, forcing a confrontation with what I can only assume is a full Vampire. Also, clues at this point are leading towards this guy being the BBEG for this campaign. Details are still sketchy, so he just might be one of the BBEG's captains or something, but either way, I am loathe to run from this. And I would be happy with just driving him from the place also. I need to defeat him, not neccessarily kill him. Also, the river runs through the plantation, and a small offshoot stream of this feeds into the castle moat (note, this does not make the moat running water, it is just fed by a running stream). We have tried earlier in the campaign to raise a mob (specifically, a mob of miner's from the local town that we freed from enslavement from a drow and some goons) and couldn't get anyone fired up. They were more scared of dying than anything we could offer. We have debated torching the castle, but would rather save that for our last plan, if possible. We've also debated trying to flood it, with the same conclusion. If we could somehow make the moat "running water", that would be sweet, but I don't see how. Also, the caskets were in the second floor basement (floor 2b), well away from sunlight. We haven't explord the upper parts of the castle yet, so we may be safe up there during the day, but we don't know for sure yet.
Dog_O_War 08-31-07, 06:04 PM	a group of miners? man, you could dig your way to his coffin room without having the miners led into direct conflict in a matter of hours! It's only two floors of stone, not solid all the way down, making it a sinch. And when your DM says it is not possible, you can ask him why 20 miners can't get through 4 feet of stone in one day. Edit: I bet though that he'll say, "they won't go anywhere near that castle." Like they have inside information or something.
Eminon 08-31-07, 06:44 PM	The miner's are unlikely to go to the castle with us as A) We knew the castle had a bad reputation before chasing the spawn there B) Their afformentioned cowardice, and C) There were a few rooms on the way down to the vampire we didn't open up as we deemed it would be safer to "get them on the way back", and these would likely completely panic the miners. Also, people tend to look at you a bit strange when you tell them you want the to do some "construction" work on a castle they all now full well you have no rights to as you grew up next door to them. I like your idea though. Maybe we can put them to work digging a trench off of the moat, creating a man made river which causes the moat to become running water. That might be a possible temporary solution.
PhaedrusXY 09-01-07, 05:50 PM	Damn the river downstream of the castle, flooding it, THEN set it on fire. :D You're going to have to avoid direct confrontation with the vampire at all costs, because it isn't a battle you can win. Exploit their weaknesses by working only in the daytime, holing up somewhere at night, and not letting anyone in (vampires can't enter uninvited). If it is possible for you to destroy the castle, you can probably go quite some way towards driving them off. That's about the best you can hope for, I think. The fact that he did almost enough damage to kill you in one hit, but not quite enough, was probably a not-so-subtle hint from the DM that you aren't supposed to confront him directly at this time.
vegetalss4 09-02-07, 08:05 AM	Damn the river downstream of the castle, flooding it, THEN set it on fire. :D You're going to have to avoid direct confrontation with the vampire at all costs, because it isn't a battle you can win. Exploit their weaknesses by working only in the daytime, holing up somewhere at night, and not letting anyone in (vampires can't enter uninvited). If it is possible for you to destroy the castle, you can probably go quite some way towards driving them off. That's about the best you can hope for, I think. The fact that he did almost enough damage to kill you in one hit, but not quite enough, was probably a not-so-subtle hint from the DM that you aren't supposed to confront him directly at this time. i agree.
Windspear 09-02-07, 08:40 AM	If you can get your hands on LOTS of mirroros you could channel daylight from outside, but..... a lot of mirrors. Burn him to the grund. There is a law in physics that says that if you connect two tanks, one above the other, and the other one is filled with some liquid, the liquid will fill the other tank untill they both have the same amount of liquid (directly translated from Hebrew this is the "law of intertwined vessels" or something). What this means is get a VERY big hose into the moat and from there take it to the basement (you need to get water to your end of the hose for it to work) and aim at the vampire. If this is concidered running water, then youv'e got him right where you want him. Drown him, cut his head off, stuff it with garlic and holy water, and your'e done!!
Novabomb 09-02-07, 10:21 AM	I'm partial to Belkar's solution. When in doubt, set something on fire. I recommend flour, lots and lots of flour will go a long way in making large explosions.
Bozwevial 09-03-07, 10:29 AM	You know, it seems to me the wording of the mirror weakness could be open to some serious misinterpretation. Spend one standard action and you can't be touched by the vampire or hit in melee by him for the rest of the encounter. DM: Alright, guys, the vampire emerges from his coffin. Bill, your wizard goes first. Bill: My wizard points a mirror at the vampire, holding him at bay. DM: Okay. John, what's the fighter going to do? *Next round* DM: Bill, your turn again. Bill: I cast scorching ray on the vampire. DM: Alright, but that provokes an attack of opportunity from the vampire. Bill: No it doesn't. I'm holding him at bay with the mirror. DM: But you have to spend a standard action to do that. Bill: Then why does the entry say "for the rest of the encounter"? DM: It's awfully hard to hold a mirror in the vampire's face while still casting a spell. Especially if the spell has material components. Bill: And yet it's still legal! DM: ... John: Hey, that's a good idea! I drop my shield and pull out the garlic sandwich I was eating earlier. DM: You never bought a garlic sandwich! John: Hey, you said at the beginning of the campaign that character quirks were encouraged. My character likes garlic sandwiches. He always has one with him. DM: Rrrr... Joe: My cleric holds up his holy symbol. Luckily for me, that isn't the only one I carry, so I can still cast spells. DM: This is ridiculous! What's he supposed to do to you guys, spit on you? Bill: Only if he succeeds on a ranged touch attack from 5 feet away. Spitting probably has a really small range increment. But no DM would let the players get away with that. There are plenty of tactics to get past that. Shatter, ranged weapons, a vampire wizard, etc.
Cartigan 09-03-07, 10:54 AM	When did mirrors hold vampires at bay?
Fiery_Overlord 09-03-07, 11:51 AM	I'm sure a pitchfork mob of level 1s will really add to the decently equipped level 4 adventurers vs a bunch of vampires :rolleyes: modify thusly for a non-sarcastic statement: I'm sure a torch and pitchfork wielding mob of level NPC classes 1s will really add to the decently equipped level 4 adventurers vs a bunch of vampires during the day, especially if you burn as much of the castle down as possible. As a side note torch wielding mob are notorious for starting fires. A collapsed roof mean more sunlight. Also vampires NEED coffins, destroy those and they are out of luck. I'd be back in town in a well secured home before night fall though. Once again raining fiery death is the best solution to solve peoples problems.
Senevri 09-03-07, 04:09 PM	Hmm. We're looking at a CR 4.5 - 5 encounter here. Best case, you're against a Half-Elf Warrior 5 vampire... So, we're looking at AC of at least 18 and an attack of at least +10, 1d6+5 slam... if he's not been retrained, he probably won't have any relevant feats, except maybe power attack. Presuming you get very lucky, and there's no Children of the Night and you can get a Prot VS. Evil to survive the Dominate... hitting the AC shouldn't be a problem ( vampire prone in a coffin, some Aid Another types + flanking can easily net +8 - +9 to hit...for one round. ) Now you'll just need to do that.. um, 16-60 damage in one round... or at least before he can get to doing some proper damage. Can you get access to holy water? ... Can you get a cleric to make a barrel full of holy water?