Post/Author/DateTime	Post
R2-DS 12-31-07, 12:01 PM	I'm currently teaching my daughter how to play D+D. We live a very rural area where players are hard to come by. She has decided that she wants to play a Paladin (Which is cool by me) , but I think I need to come up with a DM PC to adventure with her lest her adventuring career be extremely short lived. What i'm looking for are suggestions for a multiclass character that could potentially fill in some of the gaps of the standard adventuring party. Keep in mind that I don't want to steal the spot light from her. I plan on setting the game somwhere within the FR. Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
IndykidVago 12-31-07, 12:10 PM	From the ground up... a 2 person Adv party needs 4 things (as per the box) and the paladin already covers 2 basics. The ability to tank out and the ability to heal (per wands) so i'm thinking a rog/sorc would work just fine...
kelcimer 12-31-07, 12:18 PM	I would not put in a DM PC. Design adventures tailored a paladin and throw in a sidekick. A tradition is my game has been letting players have sidekicks. Generally these wind up being a kobald or a gobiln, though one of my more outstanding ones has been a generic fighter. Tie the sidekicks levels to the PC. The sidekick will always be half of the level of the PC, regardless. This gives the player someone reliable to take care of certain tasks, but not powerful enough to take the spotlight. Generally they also serve the purpose of comic relief. In combat they at best hold down the attention of those combatants on that side of the room until the player can get over there. The sidekick basically follows the player's lead except where it's funny not to. If the player is stuck the sidekick is a great vehicle to give a hint without outright giving a hint. Remember, you don't have to fill all the traditional party roles. Yeah, a wizard or socerer might be handy, but they get to do all that flashy spell stuff that takes attention away from the players. Usually, I'll have sidekicks be rogues or fighters, though occassionally I'll have them be scouts or barbarians. Having the sidekick use skills the player doesn't have is not flashy, but it is useful. Having the sidekick take care of 1/3rd of the canon fodder is useful, but still makes the player the hero.
StevenO 12-31-07, 02:13 PM	The "traditional" sidekick for a Paladin would probably be a Cleric that shares the same ideas. In this arrangement the Paladin is the muscle and the Cleric patches things up when done. The other choice is usually a wizard or other arcane caster but in this case this second character isn't there to support the Paladin as much as it is to fill in its holes. Now to adventure with a Paladin I think I'd try using a Shadowbane Stalker (CAdv) style build. This would typically start with a level of Rogue for the skill points and ability to find traps and such followed by four levels of Cleric then entry into the S'Stalker class. This gets you the trap finding/removal of the rogue and the support castng of the cleric all in one character. Perhaps my next choice would be an Arcane Trickster build. This covers the skill/arcane side of things but takes longer to develop and isn't as easy to believe because the AT can't be lawful.
Endarrion 12-31-07, 02:20 PM	You may want to search the "What's a DM to do?" forum for the thread entitled, "Guide to Solo Campaigns" (or something similar). It's a very long thread with a lot of very useful ideas, and KJW (who started the thread) will answer your questions or give you ideas on where to go.
Totentanz 12-31-07, 02:34 PM	This might be one of the few times a Mystic Theurge would be worth the effort. That covers divine and arcane for the things the pally can't do (restoration, etc.) But, the MT lags so far behind they won't show up her character at all. The Shadowbane Stalker is also a good idea. Course, you as a DM can always just leave out traps, thereby negating the biggest reason to have one.
toucanbuzz 12-31-07, 04:19 PM	Avoid it. Even a DMPC steals half the spotlight from her game, and that's not what you want. Once she can get a mount (hype this up for her), let it be an intelligent talking mount, and this will provide quite a companion for her that won't steal the limelight. (The prior thread on Solo Campaigns mentioned is the best link out there on your topic area).
MadWand 12-31-07, 10:57 PM	Since this is effectively a 1-PC group, I would suggest allowing your daughter to use the gestalt rules to add a bit more capability to her character. Giving her a free "Leadership" feat would not be out of line at all, and it would certainly be all right for her to have hirelings and such. You might want to consider starting her at a higher level so that all these extra NPC's can be given a lower level (probably 2 less than her own) and won't outshine her.
RabidPirateMan 01-01-08, 01:09 AM	I recently finished DMing a one person adventure. He was a halfling rogue, and played from level 3 to 8. Obviously, he was going to need help, so I tried to give him a lot of different options. His village (located in the arctic) was raided by Mindflayers, so he started out by rescuing three halfling rogues who helped him out. After they left, he discovered a sleeping Ogre who helped him through a cave. Then, he met up with an insane gnome artificer who joined him briefly. There was also a Kobold Cleric, a hobgoblin Paladin of Tyranny he conned into helping him, feuding elf brothers (one wizard, one sorcerer) and even a Mindflayer psion. I tried to make sure he was never without something interesting. His tactics for when he was with the Ogre (stay in his square and shoot with his crossbow) were different than the tactics he used with the hobgoblin (after throwing tanglefoot bags, set up a flank). That way, there was always a new experience for him. As well, I never let them stick around more than one or two sessions, at least until he was done with the quest he was on. Its not impossible to have DMPCs, but make sure that the character still is adding to the group. Its not good to have the player feel like he's being outshined by the DMPC.
UAMDB 01-02-08, 10:01 AM	Ok what is the differnece between a DMPC, and a NPC follower if both are done properly. The reason either is with the PC is for support. I think in this situation there is no difference between the two. Now if the party consisted of 3-4 players then neither would be needed. As for the gesalt suggest, I would say no. It is her first time playing. I think it would be a good idea to at least run a few games as a normal character before adding gesalt. How old is your daughter? If she is in the 8-12 range I might add a DMPC/NPC not as a way of complete support of unfilled roles but as a way of helping her learn to roleplay. the DMPC/NPC could offer suggestions on what to do. Kindof like "We could go around the mountain but it would save us two weeks to go through the pass the looks dangerous." Like giving the pro and cons of certain actions. If she is older than this then I think that she would be fine on her own. I started playing D&D when I was 12-13. I played a 2nd Ed Half-elf ranger and until I was level 4-5 it was all solo games. It took us a while to find new players. Everything worked out just fine. The DM did not purposely throw things at me he new I had no way of avoiding. If you do this then I say she would be fine on her own.
Another_Poet 01-02-08, 10:27 AM	Hi! I'm a responder who's not going to tell you what I think of DMPC's or your decision to include one. No no, don't thank me, just doing my job. :) Anyway, I'll just say that when I DM'd my wife I gave her a friendly ogre as a companion. Straight ogre, no class levels. Now, an ogre miht not seem multi-purpose, but think about it: He is so strong that he can help her accomplish almost anything, and so stupid that he will never steal the spotlight. Who needs a rogue when the ogre can just walk into the trap and shrug it off? Who needs magic missile when you have a charging giant at your side? Why have a cleric when your walking ambulance can haul you out of harm's way and outrun almost any pursuer? Alma (my wife's PC) called all the shots, had an almost unstoppable ally, and to top it off I got to use a funny voice for him. Of course, the ogre should have lots of ranks in Heal just in case. Remember... solo PC's don't die, they get knocked unconscious. :) ap
R2-DS 01-02-08, 11:04 AM	Thanks all I think I have it well in hand now. Cheers
archerpwr 01-02-08, 09:54 PM	Have you considered gestalt? It should help make the PC a bit more self sufficient.
curan69 01-04-08, 04:45 PM	Try a Bard The best DM character ever. With UMD and scrolls you can fill in any role you need without overshadowing, and a great way to give as much or as little information as you want.
Autopsibiofeeder 01-05-08, 12:00 PM	I don't know your daughter's age, or how particular 'girly' she is (if you know what I mean), but this might fit your goals. I personally kinda like it: Don't give her a dm-ruled player-sidekick, but sort it through the special mount class feature. You could, for example, give her a unicorn (which I would find cool if I were a girl) and not use the standard way of upping it in power, but let it attain sorcerer levels as the paladin advances. The unicorn is controlled by the DM, but utterly loyal to the paladin. This way she has a sidekick that somewhat 'belongs' to what she does as paladin (being a mount), can aid her in fields she does not cover herself (mostly arcane, albeit at a lower CL than her level), she does not have to worry too much about technically (you build it and govern it), but does not outshine her (being a loyal servant/mount). Also, but that depends a bit on the age and view of your daughter, it is mighty cool :).
Thubby 01-05-08, 01:42 PM	don't? paladins have healing and defense, put that in a "break in the door" campaign and you're set. if you have to, lower level bard, the buffs and healing are nice, and they don't get a lot of spotlight used properly. and for a reason, he's a bard, setting out to find some tale of grand adventure.
Wheldrake 01-05-08, 02:42 PM	Back in the early days of D&D, it was very frequent for PCs to have "hirelings". Usually those hirelings would be low-level fighters, but they could be any class. A paladin is a kind of knight. Why not have a squire? Or a chaplain (cleric)? There is no problem with a lone player controlling two characters, as long as the second character isn't too complicated. Cheers, --- Wheldrake
wizarddog 01-06-08, 05:36 PM	I agree with the squire idea who probably could be a Bard or Rogue to provide intelligence. As a paladin, she is not going into any situation under a guise or the dark of night. She's going to gallop in on her horse and take care of business. ;)
Martin_the_Warrior 01-06-08, 08:50 PM	I solo a lv. 3 human paladin, and I think that *shrug* you really don't need a DMPC. Paladins, in my opinion and a study that my Dnd group made (hey, we were really bored) are among the BEST characters to solo. Just don't put in tons of traps, or remember: TEN-FOOT-POLES!!! Other than that, your pally can handle almost anything. I do like the idea of an intelligent mount talking to your daughter's character, though. Even my paladin and I get a little stir-crazy when it's only me. Hope that helps.