202 Player/DM Tips [Archive] - Wizards Community

202 Player/DM Tips [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tevish Szat
02-02-04, 04:34 AM DMs and Players both seem to complain alot about the other. While they all get along in the end (usually), i though it would be helpfull to have a thread of player tips to DMs and DM tips to players for kicks, lets shoot for 202 miscelanious tips

Players:

1) Role-playing a paladin is a hard task. You are setting yourself a high bar for RP and meddeling in the area that creates or complcates at least half of the alignment questions i see on the DM boards. Be sure your up to it.

2) Its fine to check for traps and such, but if you need check so much that you're slowing the game to a crawl, you might want to think of cutting down on the search rolls.

DMs:

3) If your players have to seach enough to make 2 valid, or if the constant rolls for saves from traps is slowing the game down, you might want to consider cutting the number of traps down.

4) Don't railroad. Always leave choices for your players. nothing, not even fighting a Great Red Wyrm at 5th level, is more frustrating then being railroaded.
raistlin_devreault
02-02-04, 11:55 AM this is good! good idea!

Players:

- When a Dm creates an entire campaign, based on every characters backgrounds, open concept game for no railroading, his puting tons and tons of hours creating towns, adventures, plots and numerous encounters, please don't make a silly comment like " This small quest is really cheezy " (finding the lost magical hammer of a blacksmith)....

- When somebody in the group decide to do something, don't immediatly try to do the same .. NO metagaming please!!!
Ex:
Pc rogue : I put my ear on the door, to ear what's on the other side!
Pc fighter: Me too!
Dm: Arrghh

Dm's:

- No Prophecy!! Please!!! Im tired of being railroaded.. each time your see an Npc he knows who you are cause of the damn prophecy... (I actualy ask an Npc in-game if there was a written book about the prophecy, cause it seems we were the only one not knowing about it......Did Mr Dm got a clue!? of course not!)

- When you create a story, create one involving a couple of PC, not just your GF and best friend..

- When everyone is failing saves against Dc of 20 or higher, your gf shouldn't be succesfull with 14!

- When you make a mistake about rules or spells, don't hide behind your book and say "It's in my module!! yes yes!"

- Know the rules please! When more then half of the rules in the game have been modified by your house rules, it's not called 3.0 anymore!

Can you tell i had bad experiences with a DM !? Im a better Dm now because of it! I learned what not to do!
Thorak
02-02-04, 02:05 PM - Throw the rules out the window regularly. Especially regarding monster stats and treasure. Too many people will see a floating orb-like thing with tentacle eyes and go "Oh, a Beholder. It can do such-and-such. We can take it." So, when they say that (and they will) introduce them to your newest friend, the Licholder. And with magical items, make up new combinations and such. Again, to avoid the "Oh, it's a Staff of the Magi. It can do such-and-such." stuff.

- Don't let the players buy anything beyond minor magical items. If everyone on the planet can go to the store and buy a +5 Holy Avenger, why would you go on a quest to find one? Also helps you control the power-level and munchkin tactics.

- When doing the above, don't get nasty. Don't throw things at them that will kill them outright, and don't be overly stingy with magical items. Just make them original enough to have the PCs sit up and take notice, rather than just figuring out what everything is. I always love it when I'm confronted by something that looks absolutely monstrous, and then turns out to be CR2. Or something innocuous, which is CR25.

- As a DM, do not EVER play a 'player character'. Anything you play is, by definition, an NPC. And the game is supposed to be about the PCs, not the godly NPC the DM cheated to create, and who is always mysteriously a heck of a lot more powerful than the party. A helping hand if they need it, fine, but don't use the NPC to prop them up.

- Be open to change. The best games come about when the players come up with entirely unexpected plots, like using magic to excavate the ground from beneath a BBEG wizard's heavily-trapped tower (actually happened in a game I played). Of course, if the plot is STUPID, or the BBEG is smarter than that and you can see a way around it, foil their schemes with an evil cackle. Just not so seriously it's a TPK.
The Stray
02-02-04, 11:13 PM DMs:

Remember the First Rule of DungeonCraft: Never force yourself to create more than you must. Too many people put too much effort into designing their world, burning out before they can get their game up and off the ground. Conversly, some DMs don't create enough. Try to make sure you've got enough material for at least a couple of sessions before you start playing. Don't worry if you can't use all of it at once: The players will give you opportunities. Watch for them.

Learn the differance between a Plot and a Situation. Use Situations over Plots, and you willfind yourself railroading far, far less (hail Ray winnigar for that bit of advice!)

Players: Jokes have their place...but for God's sake, when the DM is trying to set a scene, SHUT UP! You only wreck everyone else's fun when you make a stupid joke about the NPC's hair when he's trying to impress that the elf queen is powerful and holds the character's lives in her hand. Please, save it for later.
Stormweaver
02-03-04, 03:40 PM DMs:
Players hate it when you "goal". That is you improvise a defense that was already in place when a player supprises you. If players surprise you with good tactics and screw your plans, so much to better. Don't decide at that time the vilain had stone skin or a spell immunity after the fact. Write down the active spell on a sheet and stay fair and true to what is on the sheet.

If you don't wan't that to your plan to be screwed, you must prepare in advance and know all of want your players can do. Keeping their sheet in between session is a good way to do hust that.
raistlin_devreault
02-04-04, 09:22 AM So true Stormweaver.. so true...

I had a Dm that was like that..

Our party was sneaking in a cavern (by sneaking i mean really sneaking) and we found a drow encapment, maybe 20 soldiers. We decided on a course of action, not talking loudly at the table and we went for the kill... When we charge them, they were all in "battle position" and ready for combat.. even tho they didn't know we were there before... Sooo lame!
halzmar of geoff
02-04-04, 11:56 AM Respect - simple enough concept goes both ways - DM has a hard job if you don't like something don't go off on a name calling temper tantrum - it's not at all impressive, and in fact takes away from any legitimate point you have about the situation. The player as well has a hard job trying to handle the situations they find themselves - don't childishly insult them if they make a mistake or find your riddles/puzzles too hard to solve.

Communication - If the DM wants to house rule something tell your players in advance, be clear and conscise in your descriptions so that you give the players an adequate picture of the situation, listen to your players when they have a grievance don't use the time they are speaking to think up your counter arguments.

Same for the players if you don't like a ruling talk to the DM and listen to his reasoning. If you don't have a clear picture of what is going on ask for more details. If you have a disagreement handle it like mature adults even if you aren't.

Feedback - After the session - DM - Tell your players what actions you thought were really good and what actions you thought weren't so good. Players - Tell the DM what you like about the game, and what you didn't like after the session.
mercurial67
02-04-04, 02:05 PM Originally posted by Tevish Szat
DMs:

3) If your players have to seach enough to make 2 valid, or if the constant rolls for saves from traps is slowing the game down, you might want to consider cutting the number of traps down.
Something which works well is to ask them how they are searching (taking 10, just rolling, taking 20, etc) and have them do that once. Then use that search check for the next trap they encounter, be it five minutes or five hours later. Just be sure and keep track of time and let them know time is passing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tevish Szat 02-02-04, 04:34 AM	DMs and Players both seem to complain alot about the other. While they all get along in the end (usually), i though it would be helpfull to have a thread of player tips to DMs and DM tips to players for kicks, lets shoot for 202 miscelanious tips Players: 1) Role-playing a paladin is a hard task. You are setting yourself a high bar for RP and meddeling in the area that creates or complcates at least half of the alignment questions i see on the DM boards. Be sure your up to it. 2) Its fine to check for traps and such, but if you need check so much that you're slowing the game to a crawl, you might want to think of cutting down on the search rolls. DMs: 3) If your players have to seach enough to make 2 valid, or if the constant rolls for saves from traps is slowing the game down, you might want to consider cutting the number of traps down. 4) Don't railroad. Always leave choices for your players. nothing, not even fighting a Great Red Wyrm at 5th level, is more frustrating then being railroaded.
raistlin_devreault 02-02-04, 11:55 AM	this is good! good idea! Players: - When a Dm creates an entire campaign, based on every characters backgrounds, open concept game for no railroading, his puting tons and tons of hours creating towns, adventures, plots and numerous encounters, please don't make a silly comment like " This small quest is really cheezy " (finding the lost magical hammer of a blacksmith).... - When somebody in the group decide to do something, don't immediatly try to do the same .. NO metagaming please!!! Ex: Pc rogue : I put my ear on the door, to ear what's on the other side! Pc fighter: Me too! Dm: Arrghh Dm's: - No Prophecy!! Please!!! Im tired of being railroaded.. each time your see an Npc he knows who you are cause of the damn prophecy... (I actualy ask an Npc in-game if there was a written book about the prophecy, cause it seems we were the only one not knowing about it......Did Mr Dm got a clue!? of course not!) - When you create a story, create one involving a couple of PC, not just your GF and best friend.. - When everyone is failing saves against Dc of 20 or higher, your gf shouldn't be succesfull with 14! - When you make a mistake about rules or spells, don't hide behind your book and say "It's in my module!! yes yes!" - Know the rules please! When more then half of the rules in the game have been modified by your house rules, it's not called 3.0 anymore! Can you tell i had bad experiences with a DM !? Im a better Dm now because of it! I learned what not to do!
Thorak 02-02-04, 02:05 PM	- Throw the rules out the window regularly. Especially regarding monster stats and treasure. Too many people will see a floating orb-like thing with tentacle eyes and go "Oh, a Beholder. It can do such-and-such. We can take it." So, when they say that (and they will) introduce them to your newest friend, the Licholder. And with magical items, make up new combinations and such. Again, to avoid the "Oh, it's a Staff of the Magi. It can do such-and-such." stuff. - Don't let the players buy anything beyond minor magical items. If everyone on the planet can go to the store and buy a +5 Holy Avenger, why would you go on a quest to find one? Also helps you control the power-level and munchkin tactics. - When doing the above, don't get nasty. Don't throw things at them that will kill them outright, and don't be overly stingy with magical items. Just make them original enough to have the PCs sit up and take notice, rather than just figuring out what everything is. I always love it when I'm confronted by something that looks absolutely monstrous, and then turns out to be CR2. Or something innocuous, which is CR25. - As a DM, do not EVER play a 'player character'. Anything you play is, by definition, an NPC. And the game is supposed to be about the PCs, not the godly NPC the DM cheated to create, and who is always mysteriously a heck of a lot more powerful than the party. A helping hand if they need it, fine, but don't use the NPC to prop them up. - Be open to change. The best games come about when the players come up with entirely unexpected plots, like using magic to excavate the ground from beneath a BBEG wizard's heavily-trapped tower (actually happened in a game I played). Of course, if the plot is STUPID, or the BBEG is smarter than that and you can see a way around it, foil their schemes with an evil cackle. Just not so seriously it's a TPK.
The Stray 02-02-04, 11:13 PM	DMs: Remember the First Rule of DungeonCraft: Never force yourself to create more than you must. Too many people put too much effort into designing their world, burning out before they can get their game up and off the ground. Conversly, some DMs don't create enough. Try to make sure you've got enough material for at least a couple of sessions before you start playing. Don't worry if you can't use all of it at once: The players will give you opportunities. Watch for them. Learn the differance between a Plot and a Situation. Use Situations over Plots, and you willfind yourself railroading far, far less (hail Ray winnigar for that bit of advice!) Players: Jokes have their place...but for God's sake, when the DM is trying to set a scene, SHUT UP! You only wreck everyone else's fun when you make a stupid joke about the NPC's hair when he's trying to impress that the elf queen is powerful and holds the character's lives in her hand. Please, save it for later.
Stormweaver 02-03-04, 03:40 PM	DMs: Players hate it when you "goal". That is you improvise a defense that was already in place when a player supprises you. If players surprise you with good tactics and screw your plans, so much to better. Don't decide at that time the vilain had stone skin or a spell immunity after the fact. Write down the active spell on a sheet and stay fair and true to what is on the sheet. If you don't wan't that to your plan to be screwed, you must prepare in advance and know all of want your players can do. Keeping their sheet in between session is a good way to do hust that.
raistlin_devreault 02-04-04, 09:22 AM	So true Stormweaver.. so true... I had a Dm that was like that.. Our party was sneaking in a cavern (by sneaking i mean really sneaking) and we found a drow encapment, maybe 20 soldiers. We decided on a course of action, not talking loudly at the table and we went for the kill... When we charge them, they were all in "battle position" and ready for combat.. even tho they didn't know we were there before... Sooo lame!
halzmar of geoff 02-04-04, 11:56 AM	Respect - simple enough concept goes both ways - DM has a hard job if you don't like something don't go off on a name calling temper tantrum - it's not at all impressive, and in fact takes away from any legitimate point you have about the situation. The player as well has a hard job trying to handle the situations they find themselves - don't childishly insult them if they make a mistake or find your riddles/puzzles too hard to solve. Communication - If the DM wants to house rule something tell your players in advance, be clear and conscise in your descriptions so that you give the players an adequate picture of the situation, listen to your players when they have a grievance don't use the time they are speaking to think up your counter arguments. Same for the players if you don't like a ruling talk to the DM and listen to his reasoning. If you don't have a clear picture of what is going on ask for more details. If you have a disagreement handle it like mature adults even if you aren't. Feedback - After the session - DM - Tell your players what actions you thought were really good and what actions you thought weren't so good. Players - Tell the DM what you like about the game, and what you didn't like after the session.
mercurial67 02-04-04, 02:05 PM	Originally posted by Tevish Szat DMs: 3) If your players have to seach enough to make 2 valid, or if the constant rolls for saves from traps is slowing the game down, you might want to consider cutting the number of traps down. Something which works well is to ask them how they are searching (taking 10, just rolling, taking 20, etc) and have them do that once. Then use that search check for the next trap they encounter, be it five minutes or five hours later. Just be sure and keep track of time and let them know time is passing.