Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sereetha 01-08-08, 10:30 AM	I am trying to find a way to make my Druid work with my group now that she has no class levels. She is a druid that follows the nature aspect of Pelor, however the DM has now had him die and be reborn on Tiamat's home plane. The group is upset that I will not forsake him and get new spells from another God. I do not qualify for Proxy since I was not in his presence at the time of his demise/capture. I know he is alive, so she would stay true. However the group seems to think she is useless. However she can still swing a sword and has beneficial skills. She has stayed true to all of their trials and tribulations but since this occurance they have essentially walked away. With the exception of the Priest of Solnor. Are there any ideas or templates that anyone can think of that I could use to assist her capabilities? If anything happens to their characters they freak, I want to still play her and the DM wants the same thing since we were on our Epic Level travel. They all think I am nuts and I should just make a new character. We are each playing 2 characters reaching epic level
toucanbuzz 01-08-08, 10:38 AM	In the Realms, when one of the gawds went missing during the Time of Troubles, another stepped up and continued to grant spells to the followers under a similar portfolio. The same could occur here without switching worship. Alternately, perhaps the reborn Pelor has the ability to grant spells to only one follower in the hopes they will restore him. Grand adventures await! But you should not have to give up your character for something the DM did outside the control of your character.
Sereetha 01-08-08, 10:46 AM	Thanks for the vote of confidence! That is what I was trying to get at with the group. I have no intention of putting her away, I have worked too hard to get her here. I guess my fustration laid more with the throw away attitude of the other players. We have a great DM and we often colude on ideas {I run a seperate game} He wanted me to take a level in another class, and he kind of went oops, when he realized since we were not yet epic. However, we shall see what the future brings, here comes the Abyss. He is not allowing other Gods to step in with spells, he already told me to find another way to make her work, so that is what I will do. I always did enjoy a challenge.:D
drunkendrake 01-08-08, 12:56 PM	Without a god, can you still Wild Shape? If so, buy/borrow a few Monster Manuals and go crazy. I'm sure the CharOp boards have something about this. In actual fact, a 20 Druid with no spells can probably still be better than pretty much anything else if you take a long look at it. -Drake-
Sereetha 01-08-08, 01:28 PM	No I do not have wildshape, I am a kick butt commoner with tons of hit points and an awesome swordstrike! lol. The problem is more with some of the other players. They lose something and they automatically want to get rid of the character, until they get something cool. They rely on items not the character itself. She is presently a good fighter, they are upset they lost her spells, so they want me to make a new one. The thing is though when you play a character this long to get to this level you don't just give up. Our DM is also very experienced so we will go with the flow and see how we end up. We are going to Epic so I will stand up to the challenge and hope for the best. Thanks
Jarsallen 01-08-08, 02:48 PM	You're playing your character well, and frankly seem to be a better roleplayer than the rest of your party. My suggestion is to keep doing what you're doing so long as you're having fun. As a proponent of 'morality play' type stories, I would hope that the DM would recognize your unswavering faith despite trials and tribulations, and reward you appropriately.
MadWand 01-08-08, 02:51 PM	This is an easy fix. Worship Mayaheine temporarily: http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/wearth/gods/mayaheine.html Mayaheine is a goddess that also worships Pelor. If Pelor was indisposed for any reason, most certainly she would step forward and provide spells to his clerics, paladins, druids, and other worshippers until he returned. Good luck. An epic quest to restore Pelor would be fun!
Cartigan 01-08-08, 02:54 PM	Wouldn't you gain spells as long as you revered nature, even if you worshiped a nature deity?
Sereetha 01-08-08, 03:13 PM	Sometimes Druids will follow a God that has been a Druid during their career and worship that aspect of the Pantheon. This can definately have spell casting benefits. Access to some extra spell domains can be one. With Pelor it allowed access to the Sun Domain. The campaign right now has Pelor, St. Cuthbert, Gae, the Maids and the Harmonium out of commision. Tiamat, Iuz along with some other unknown Evil Domain Gods are looking to take over Oerth. Unfortunately the evil forces are working together better than the forces of good. Our group is extremely versitile, yet unorthodox as well and this is not helping the situation. Since the characters all believe that their quest is the most important. I do feel sorry for our DM though, he is trying to hold it together but with such a mix of player experience it is throwing him off kilter. I am sure we will find our way though.
MrCustomer 01-08-08, 03:24 PM	Can Druids worship a cause as a Cleric can? Not actually choosing a deity but worshiping a general philosophy? If this is the case, then your Druid could continue as normal, except that your cause being the return of Pelor. Additionally, even if Divine Magic from Pelor is not available, then you could perhaps worship an allied Deity or a deity with a common interest to Pelor. this would not be abandoning him since you are carrying on Pelor's interests as best you can until his return, or by worshiping the allied deity you are working to aid Pelor's other servents and supporters who would be in trouble by his absense.
sblaxman 01-08-08, 04:07 PM	I must say, I'd love to have you in my game... seems so few players actually care anything at all about role playing. I'm used to 2E, where the magic came from the gods themselves, not from a 'cause", so I feel your pain as to loosing your powers. I just have to say shame shame on your fellow players for wanting you to scrap your character... as long as the character is alive, you can play it. Heck, i'd say a 20th level druid w/o druid powers is a damn interesting character to play with... especially if you are staying true to your cause, that's dedication and sorely lacking. Whether they take you back or not, I'm glad to hear your story and wish you luck
Totentanz 01-08-08, 04:31 PM	I see no RP benefit to be being ripped out of hard-earned class abilities. Sticking with a character after something bad happens I can understand, but what you have right now won't survive epic. If I understand correctly, you have hit points, saves, BAB, and gear. Honestly, I can understand why the party wants you to switch. You won't be able to pull your weight as it stands. He wants you to "find" another way to make her work? Does that mean digging up some obscure feat/PrC that allows you restore your abilities or just giving up what you have in the hopes you will eventually get your spells back? Are you supposed to come up with some IC cosmological exception that you can recite and restore you? Or are you expected to adventure minus the class abilities you worked 20 levels for. I'm confused to be honest. Right now, you are playing a Warrior NPC class with better gear. I'm totally on the side of your players in saying you need to find a way to be useful or play something new. You expect an equal share of the treasure when you can't do an equal share of the work? If someone wanted to play a level 8 fighter in a level 18 game because "being the under dog provides me with good roleplaying" what would your response be? From an OC perspective, you are going to be having to save his ::censored:: left and right, assuming a spell or breath weapon doesn't kill him outright. From an IC perspective, you would be perfectly in line to say "sorry fellow hero, but you will surely die if you accompany us, slay evil elsewhere and we will meet again." Or can they not RP their characters? Lost Empires of Faerun has a feat that allows you to draw power from a dead god. If you can get that allowed your problem is solved. I understand you are attached to your character. It really sucks to have her ripped apart like that. Rather than blaming your fellow players for wanting a party that can survive the challenges of epic, why not pose this legitimate question to your DM: "How am I supposed to contribute to my party?" He needs to provide you with an escape hatch, be it a feat, an artifact, or an opportunity to at least restore your connection to Pelor through a quest.
Sereetha 01-08-08, 04:49 PM	I do understand the position of the other players, however the DM wants her to continue. Therefore, he should have a plan. What I was hoping to find was a Template (examlpe: Sacred Watcher) that would make sense and has does not hinder the Epic process. One thought was Proxy ( in the Dieties). Since oringinally posting this thread, the DM has called and admitted he made an error. He thought the levels could be circumvented to another class if I had wanted or taken one level in something else. We will work something out, since he said when he talked to the group there are no go backs and I should play it out. So the tune has changed. Which is fine with me. I am allied with another Priest and an Ironheart Warblade. You continue you fight and you carry on. Thanks for the input.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 01-08-08, 05:18 PM	Did your animal companion leave as well? Other then the feat that allows you to draw power from dead gods, i would also point out that if you dipped into a ToM class, like warblade, you would begin with 5th level maneuvers. Not quite epic power, but better then you have now.
VulcanStormwrath 01-08-08, 05:21 PM	In realms there is also a feat that allow you to draw spells from a dead deity, through sheer devotion. It seems perfect since you can even draw spells from one dead for centuries. It also makes the party's goal to get you to level 21 so you can take the feat and regain your powers.
Jarsallen 01-08-08, 05:40 PM	Right now, you are playing a Warrior NPC class with better gear. I'm totally on the side of your players in saying you need to find a way to be useful or play something new. Because otherwise you and your friends won't be able to win at D&D.
Count Arioch the 28th 01-08-08, 05:44 PM	I'd say the problem is the DM. Druids don't need gods to have their spells and abilities, their power does not stem from a deity. Your DM is wrong for taking away your powers because of something Pelor did or didn't do.
Another_Poet 01-08-08, 06:17 PM	My first reaction is to agree that yoru druid should still have spells no matter what deity they worship or what happens to the deity. But I gather from your posts that you feel this lack of spells is fair, and just wonder how to handle it. This brings me to my second question: why are you a commoner? If you lose your spells, wildshape and animal companion you should still have d8's as your hit dice, have Druid BAB and saves, have Druid skill points, etc. A Commoner has d4's and lower stats in general as I recall. You should really be a Druid without certain class abilities, not a Commoner. With druid HD, BAB and Saves you should hold yourself pretty well in a fight. You may as well wear metal armour now since it won't mess with your class abilities. If the other players miss your spells so bad, you might consider bluffing them. "Guys, I got my powers back! Bull's Strength!" Placebo effect at first, a good laugh later--as long as they can take a joke. ap
sblaxman 01-08-08, 06:44 PM	Because otherwise you and your friends won't be able to win at D&D. :heehee
VulcanStormwrath 01-08-08, 10:53 PM	I'd say the problem is the DM. Druids don't need gods to have their spells and abilities, their power does not stem from a deity. Your DM is wrong for taking away your powers because of something Pelor did or didn't do. If you look at the Forgotten Realms every entry for Druids reads, Druid of (Insert Deity). It depends on the setting. Not everyone on this planet is wrong.
Lincoln Hills 01-09-08, 03:47 PM	(Although it's a pretty good first bet. HAH!) By the Rules as Written, none of your supernatural abilities require daily prayer or re-energizing: your god gave them to you, and those gifts remain even when the deity himself has departed. Present that line of reasoning to your DM: it means you are still capable of moving through overgrowth, resisting fey, ignoring natural poisons, disguising yourself at will, altering yourself into animal and elemental forms, taming wild beasts with a single Jedi mind trick... you're still way ahead of even a Warrior 20 (let alone Commoner) class in terms of skills and Will saves - and you've got just as many feats as you did before (except, of course, any that you put into metamagic or item creation). Losing your god is a serious blow, granted. Aside from the loss of the spells, it's psychologically devastating to discover how vulnerable your Source of Truth can be. But your fellow party members - if they were true friends, rather than jackals who turn on the weakest in a heartbeat - would see you through your hour of need instead of acting like you're to blame.
dawnbringer 01-09-08, 04:55 PM	Spellpowered Spellpowered are creatures that have inherent spell-like abilities not generally found in others of their type. The origins of these additional powers are myriad, but the product is always a creature (or group of creatures) that possesses an additional, atypical capacity for magic, with powers that vary from broad and eclectic to very focused and themed. Appearance Changes Spellpowered creatures usually look no different than their normal counterparts. Sometimes, however, the creature manifests cues to its hidden talents, from a vague weirdness to altered coloration or other unnatural features. Creating a Spellpowered Creature “Spellpowered” is template that can be added to any creature (referred to hereafter as the “base creature”). A spellpowered creature differs from the base creature as follows. Type: Animals and vermin become magical beasts. Special Attacks: Spellpowered gain the following. Spell-Like Abilities: A spellpowered creature gains a number of points equal to twice its racial Hit Dice. These points are spent on spells, which cost a number of points equal to their respective levels, with first level spells costing 1 point, second level spells costing 2, and so on (0-level spells cost ½ point). For example, fireball costs 3 points, since it is a 3rd-level spell. Regardless, a spellpowered creature cannot possess a spell that has a level exceeding one-half the creature’s Hit Dice (round up). Expending a number of points equal to the spell’s level allows the creature to use the ability once per day. Paying twice this amount allows the creature to use the ability three times per day. Using three times the spell’s level in points allows the creature to use the spell-like ability at will. A point expenditure equal to four times the spell level allows the creature to effectively have the ability constantly in effect. At will or constant abilities may be labeled supernatural (Su), instead of spell-like, at your discretion. Constant effects still have a caster level and may be temporarily dispelled. If its constant power is dispelled, the spellpowered creature can reestablish the power as a free action on its turn. Spellpowered creatures do not need a minimum score in any ability to use their spell-like abilities. Caster level equals the spellpowered creature’s Hit Dice. Saving throw DCs are based on the creature’s highest mental ability score. Challenge Rating: +1. Add an additional +1 for 7 to 15 Hit Dice and another +1 for 16 or more Hit Dice. Advancement: A spellpowered creature may add its inherent caster level to its highest-level spellcasting class (if any) for determining the caster level of spell-like abilities. Level Adjustment: Variable. <----- points to variable.