2nd edition player to 3rd edition [Archive] - Wizards Community

2nd edition player to 3rd edition [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bonemage
01-14-04, 08:03 PM I am an old hat 2nd edition player who hasn't gamed significantly in at least 4 years perhaps close to 6 depending how much you define significantly. I am about ready to attempt to find a group in the local gaming club to help teach me 3.0/3.5 and was wondering what are the biggest differences in game play that I should read up on before jumping into this? I know Thac0 is gone but what else should I read/skim so I am a bit more prepared? I hate being the total newbie...
DM Zoc
01-14-04, 08:06 PM The only important changes involve what races can be what classes, which is to say, any race may be any class, and may add a new class at any point with precious little restriction.

If you want a comprehensive overview, just skim the mechanics for how skills work.
Eldren
01-14-04, 08:16 PM Read the chapters in the 3.5 Player's Handbook on races, stats, character creation, classes, feats, skills and combat. If you have those down reasonably pat, you're actually going to be better prepared than some players who have been involved in 3rd Edition since it started in 2000! :) It shouldn't take more than a single night to get those chapters read. The rest of the stuff is useful as well, but can probably wait til it actually comes up in the game.

Don't try to Dungeon Master a game before you've played it. Play as a PC, all the way to 20th level if you're able, and then consider running your own game. You'll have a great grasp of not only the basic concepts by 20th level, but also some more of the advanced concepts, and you'll have a more concrete idea of what you would and wouldn't like in your own game.

Welcome to 3rd Edition! It's an awesome version of Dungeons & Dragons, and I think you're going to have a lot of fun playing in it!
Bonemage
01-14-04, 09:56 PM Yeah I wasn't planning to simply go out and DM a game but I find your advice about playing a pc to 20th level a bit odd... In 7+ years of roleplaying actively never once did our group ever have a character above about 16-17 level. We rarely did we ever get characters much higher than 7th-8th level. That's where campaigns where by far the most fun for us. We did however have a few 1-2 session mess around games of high levelers but we liked the low level adventurers the best.

Also as a sidenote I have owned the 3.0 since the day they were each released but I have failed to do anything more than just page through them a bit.
Eldren
01-15-04, 12:35 AM If you don't enjoy high-level adventuring, that's fine; I just recommend getting in some significant time gaming as a player, however many levels you're comfortable with. :) Personally, I prefer to not get involved in campaigns at all unless I know it's going to go for the long haul, i.e., past 20th level (yeah, I like Epic play; it seems that you don't, so I wouldn't recommend purchasing the Epic Level Handbook... That's $40 you can spend on something else...), because I like having that time to really tell a story with my character, and like having the time to explore all of the character's nuances. This is one of the reasons why I never play in one-shots: All a one-shot is, really, is an interaction with the gaming mechanics. At least, that's all it is for me. I could care less if the character lives or dies, because I know it isn't going to be used again.
Mitchell
01-15-04, 01:50 AM It seems that you do tend to level faster now, compared to 1st/2nd edition. You may not find this to your liking, but everything is more open-ended to accomodate this. They removed the old xp system and installed a "challenge rating" from which your experience comes.
Bonemage
01-15-04, 10:37 AM I didn't intend to overstate how often we played one shots we actually had I think 3 AD&D and one World of Darkness (White Wolf) over the course of 7 years. But I can understand how one might enjoy telling the same character's story over a long time. In fact in some our campaigns giving out experience was pretty stingy perhaps prolonging our campaigns in the low level form.

Question one of the primary reasons we enjoyed low level was getting stuff done without followers around. Do you still start to pick up followers and such around 9th-10th level?
Gothic_Demon
01-15-04, 10:58 AM No, followers (and the bonus cohorts (tough followers)) are only available when taken as a feat (if you haven't read the new rules fully, feats are like bonus proficiencies that give your character new skills and powers they wouldn't otherwise have been able to get).

In comparison to AD&D:
Characters tend to be much tougher and stronger than AD&D characters, and they level up quicker under the standard system.
Characters have skills (bought with skill points) and feats (special proficiencies with unusual powers), and are proficient with a subset of weapons automatically.
There are far more new classes and races to choose from, as well as there no longer being level, ability score, or race restrictions (elven paladin with a 6 charisma, yep!).
Prestige classes are special multiclass options. They allow you to multiclass (with the prestige class as your other class) without penalty, and the classes bring special powers that are completely different to those gained by the standard classes.

Much better in my opinion, once you get used to the new system (and the d20 mechanic is very easy to get used to). However, you have to put up with more splat books than even AD&D can lay claim to, and not all of which are quality controlled to any reasonable standard. The game is more war-game oriented than AD&D was, with combat rules based on playing with miniatures and a gridded combat map (though playable without).
Low levels won't last you any time at all in the new system, as it seems to have been decided that the best games give players stuff quickly and easily in comparison to a AD&D game, and the stuff they get is very much more powerful than your standard AD&D character. (For example, all characters of even 5th level are already expected to own magic items, and they are expected to have the opportunity to buy more magic items regularly. Mages are expected to be making scrolls and potions from day one, and are weakened if they don't.)

I prefer the new system, with the right tweaking to my adventures, but you may not like the new 'feel' of the game.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bonemage 01-14-04, 08:03 PM	I am an old hat 2nd edition player who hasn't gamed significantly in at least 4 years perhaps close to 6 depending how much you define significantly. I am about ready to attempt to find a group in the local gaming club to help teach me 3.0/3.5 and was wondering what are the biggest differences in game play that I should read up on before jumping into this? I know Thac0 is gone but what else should I read/skim so I am a bit more prepared? I hate being the total newbie...
DM Zoc 01-14-04, 08:06 PM	The only important changes involve what races can be what classes, which is to say, any race may be any class, and may add a new class at any point with precious little restriction. If you want a comprehensive overview, just skim the mechanics for how skills work.
Eldren 01-14-04, 08:16 PM	Read the chapters in the 3.5 Player's Handbook on races, stats, character creation, classes, feats, skills and combat. If you have those down reasonably pat, you're actually going to be better prepared than some players who have been involved in 3rd Edition since it started in 2000! :) It shouldn't take more than a single night to get those chapters read. The rest of the stuff is useful as well, but can probably wait til it actually comes up in the game. Don't try to Dungeon Master a game before you've played it. Play as a PC, all the way to 20th level if you're able, and then consider running your own game. You'll have a great grasp of not only the basic concepts by 20th level, but also some more of the advanced concepts, and you'll have a more concrete idea of what you would and wouldn't like in your own game. Welcome to 3rd Edition! It's an awesome version of Dungeons & Dragons, and I think you're going to have a lot of fun playing in it!
Bonemage 01-14-04, 09:56 PM	Yeah I wasn't planning to simply go out and DM a game but I find your advice about playing a pc to 20th level a bit odd... In 7+ years of roleplaying actively never once did our group ever have a character above about 16-17 level. We rarely did we ever get characters much higher than 7th-8th level. That's where campaigns where by far the most fun for us. We did however have a few 1-2 session mess around games of high levelers but we liked the low level adventurers the best. Also as a sidenote I have owned the 3.0 since the day they were each released but I have failed to do anything more than just page through them a bit.
Eldren 01-15-04, 12:35 AM	If you don't enjoy high-level adventuring, that's fine; I just recommend getting in some significant time gaming as a player, however many levels you're comfortable with. :) Personally, I prefer to not get involved in campaigns at all unless I know it's going to go for the long haul, i.e., past 20th level (yeah, I like Epic play; it seems that you don't, so I wouldn't recommend purchasing the Epic Level Handbook... That's $40 you can spend on something else...), because I like having that time to really tell a story with my character, and like having the time to explore all of the character's nuances. This is one of the reasons why I never play in one-shots: All a one-shot is, really, is an interaction with the gaming mechanics. At least, that's all it is for me. I could care less if the character lives or dies, because I know it isn't going to be used again.
Mitchell 01-15-04, 01:50 AM	It seems that you do tend to level faster now, compared to 1st/2nd edition. You may not find this to your liking, but everything is more open-ended to accomodate this. They removed the old xp system and installed a "challenge rating" from which your experience comes.
Bonemage 01-15-04, 10:37 AM	I didn't intend to overstate how often we played one shots we actually had I think 3 AD&D and one World of Darkness (White Wolf) over the course of 7 years. But I can understand how one might enjoy telling the same character's story over a long time. In fact in some our campaigns giving out experience was pretty stingy perhaps prolonging our campaigns in the low level form. Question one of the primary reasons we enjoyed low level was getting stuff done without followers around. Do you still start to pick up followers and such around 9th-10th level?
Gothic_Demon 01-15-04, 10:58 AM	No, followers (and the bonus cohorts (tough followers)) are only available when taken as a feat (if you haven't read the new rules fully, feats are like bonus proficiencies that give your character new skills and powers they wouldn't otherwise have been able to get). In comparison to AD&D: Characters tend to be much tougher and stronger than AD&D characters, and they level up quicker under the standard system. Characters have skills (bought with skill points) and feats (special proficiencies with unusual powers), and are proficient with a subset of weapons automatically. There are far more new classes and races to choose from, as well as there no longer being level, ability score, or race restrictions (elven paladin with a 6 charisma, yep!). Prestige classes are special multiclass options. They allow you to multiclass (with the prestige class as your other class) without penalty, and the classes bring special powers that are completely different to those gained by the standard classes. Much better in my opinion, once you get used to the new system (and the d20 mechanic is very easy to get used to). However, you have to put up with more splat books than even AD&D can lay claim to, and not all of which are quality controlled to any reasonable standard. The game is more war-game oriented than AD&D was, with combat rules based on playing with miniatures and a gridded combat map (though playable without). Low levels won't last you any time at all in the new system, as it seems to have been decided that the best games give players stuff quickly and easily in comparison to a AD&D game, and the stuff they get is very much more powerful than your standard AD&D character. (For example, all characters of even 5th level are already expected to own magic items, and they are expected to have the opportunity to buy more magic items regularly. Mages are expected to be making scrolls and potions from day one, and are weakened if they don't.) I prefer the new system, with the right tweaking to my adventures, but you may not like the new 'feel' of the game.