Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Uber Goblin 02-27-05, 11:53 PM	alright, here is my issue. I have a build that will reduce my characters CHA and INT to 3 while my wisdom will be 20, and I am looking into divine casting as well... How is this possible! How should I act with this? two words to a sentance yet I just know things intuaitively? I was once given an example: INT is the ability to identifie a step in your path, what texture it is, the color and hues it has, what rock type it is ect ect. While WIZ is the ability to know you need to lift your foot to not trip over it. With this combo I am thinking his intuative instincts will be very advance, just not his metal capacity...
Board_Rider 02-28-05, 12:43 AM	With INT and CHA that low you will be the village idiot and FUgly.Even hated probably. Born retarted. Good thing you will be wise enough to live in a cave.
New_Jersey 02-28-05, 12:43 AM	You'll be the wisest eggplant in all the lands. All other eggplants will flock to you for your wisdom. Or they would if, you know, they weren't eggplants. Being a bastion of divine energy doesn't help if you stare at your bedroom wall all day. Charisma mesures a persons strength of personality. With a charisma score that low you would have little sense of 'self'. So you would live on instincts alone think reptilian. Really, this is just a silly build.
bard_4_life 02-28-05, 12:44 AM	This is kind of funny, because right now I'm playing a Half-Orc Monk with 9 Int, 6 Cha, and 16 Wis. Coinsidence? With 3 Int, you're not going to be communicating very much. Short, simple sentences for you. I'm even sure if a 3 int character can write or read, seeing as your about as intelligent as an animal. The way I see it, 3 Cha can mean a couple of things, you could be mean, unsocial, rude, timid, or shy. Basically, you're going to want to avoid most people, sometimes eve your party. Now, 20 Wis means that you will notice things better than most of your party, but you probably won't be telling them about what you found. For example, if you spot a thief eyeing one of your party members in the corner, you might be too scared to mention it to them, tap them lightly and try to explain, "Uh...man. Shadow, there." *point*, or you may go with your instincts (which you will probably be doing most of the time) and charge the thief. But then again, it's your character, you can choose what he/she does, I'm just giving you some advice on how I would play it.
PhaedrusXY 02-28-05, 12:59 AM	Have you seen the second X-men movie, with the guy who's a super-powerful psychic, but really braindamaged? I think that's a good place to start. There are examples of this kind of stuff in fantasy literature; someone with severe disabilities but ridiculous, mind-blowing power at the same time. Wasn't there a character like that in Akira?
moustache guy 02-28-05, 01:22 AM	*sigh* This is an unplayable character from a role playing point of view. Anything below a 6 in the mental stats is unplayable. I know, some people "try" but what the really do is play the character at a 6. Such a character would never have aged enough to even begin the adventuring life. If you insist on playing the character, never talk. Period. In character or out of character. Your character is smart enough to understand 1 language, but he can't effectively communcate with a 3 charisma. If you talk, you'll be playing him at INT 6, CHA 6. Also, you have no idea how things work, but you are aware of how things interact. Put it this way, you're a wise owl. Owl's don't know anything. Owls don't talk. Owl's refuse social situations. PhaedrusXY has a good example. That guy from the Xmen 2 movie would never/can never take to the adventuring life.
hat 02-28-05, 01:41 AM	Here is my advice: just don't do it.
JadeSpider9643 02-28-05, 02:14 AM	3,20,3 is...eh....playable.....but your not gonna like it. The overwelming aspect is that you have 3 Int. You might have all the Wisdom in the world, but you are completly incapable of sharing any of it. Grog: *thinks to self* So Einstein said that no object can ACCEPERATE to the speed of light, but not necessarily that there are not already particles that travel at, or ABOVE the speed of light....fasinating Grog: *speaking* Grog throw rock! hmmm, yeah that's a shame...poor Grog. Your 3 Cha means your most likly ugly as ....oh hell I've never even heard bed time horror stories of anything nearly as ugly as you must be. This also means your incredibly shy (totally possible due to social rejection on account of your ugly looks). Roleplaying such a character is entirely simple: You sit in the corner and rock while mumbeling, if anyone could understand your mumbeling they might realize, you contain incredible wisdom. You are the dictionary defintion of an Idiot Savant (one with several birth defects that has been horribly scarred by acid at least) Combat for you is out of the question, you don't have NEARLY enough self-confidence or intelligence to function under pressure. If you want to try, your DM should require you to wait at least 10 rounds between every action just to build up enough self-confidence to even TRY attacking anyone. Such a character might make an interesting NPC(sole survivor of a village raid that you have to "somehow" get information from, perhaps?), but is pratically impossible to play as a PC.
Lina_Inverse 02-28-05, 02:17 AM	you have a 3 int.your a flat out idiot. you have a 20wisdom.you have wisdom beyond birth. you have a 3cha.your personality is weak. to be blunt. your charecter will do ANYTHING someone tells him if they trust him.your charecter will also live a very animalistic life. your charecters wisdom however,means youll understand what "needs to be done" and who to trust. play him like an ant,following the group always.relying on them utterly.but every once in awhile,just REALIZE something.speak intelligently for a moment and say something importent.then go back to babbleing incoherently.
angryman 02-28-05, 03:04 AM	This is exactly why I never allow PCs to drop mental stats below 8- to prevent silly minmaxing and to stop people from playing vegetables. With 3 INT, you are Barely Sentient. With 3 CHA you are damned close to not even being aware of that fact. Think of a guy who drools in a corner and doesn't even look at people- an extremely autistuc guy who is ALSO a severely retarded person intellectually. You would never have been able to leave home- not that you would have wanted to, since with your utter lack of motivation or intellect, you'd be happy staring at butterflies. You would be locked in the basement because your parents were ashamed of you. You have an IQ 0f 30. MONKEYS are almost smarter than you.
Black Kitten 02-28-05, 05:47 AM	This is exactly why I never allow PCs to drop mental stats below 8- to prevent silly minmaxing and to stop people from playing vegetables. With 3 INT, you are Barely Sentient. With 3 CHA you are damned close to not even being aware of that fact. Think of a guy who drools in a corner and doesn't even look at people- an extremely autistuc guy who is ALSO a severely retarded person intellectually. You would never have been able to leave home- not that you would have wanted to, since with your utter lack of motivation or intellect, you'd be happy staring at butterflies. You would be locked in the basement because your parents were ashamed of you. You have an IQ 0f 30. MONKEYS are almost smarter than you. In D&D monkeys have INT 2 aka 20 IQ.
grishenko 02-28-05, 08:31 AM	If you wanted to play a 3, 20, 2 character you probably don't care about roleplaying, so you probably read the comments above as ranting, well consider this: Are you aware that a spell or poison, or similiar effect, that reduces your intelligence or charisma score by a lousy THREE points will make your character enter a coma... (Intelligence 0 means that the character cannot think and is unconscious in a coma-like stupor, helpless. Charisma 0 means that the character is withdrawn into a catatonic, coma-like stupor, helpless.) Think about how vulnerable your character will be to low level spells before playing such a build - even if you do not care about rolyplaying...
Draco Strang 02-28-05, 09:17 AM	This is an incredibly stupid build. As mentioned before, what happens when you get hit with a touch of idiocy spell? You stand an excellent chance of just flat out going into a coma. From a mechanical stance it sucks, and from an RP stance it sucks. Just plain sucks man. Your DM needs to let you re-roll. P.S.-If you did this with point buy, you deserve it, and there's no helping you.
Habronicus 02-28-05, 10:42 AM	The only think I can think of is for the character to be mute - not by defect, but by choice. Why? Well, people never liked him (low CHA) and they don't respect what he has to say, or thinks, either (low INT). However, since he has high Sense Motive (among other skills), he may just have developed a tendency to distrust any living being. This means that making this character work within a party is hard... but not impossible. You say that he'll use divine magic. That means he will probably trust only in his God and his faith. He may join the party out of duty, then. It's a hard role to play... but, under an experienced player, it sounds like a one-of-a-kind experience. If you go forward with that character, let us know how it turns out. I, for one, am interested.
Uber Goblin 02-28-05, 11:50 AM	The only think I can think of is for the character to be mute - not by defect, but by choice. Why? Well, people never liked him (low CHA) and they don't respect what he has to say, or thinks, either (low INT). However, since he has high Sense Motive (among other skills), he may just have developed a tendency to distrust any living being. Finally some constructive criticism... though I did love the Einstein theory in my mind one :) Well, all said and done this character did not end up completely retarded. Through shear rolling power on my part (the 4d6 re-roll 1's method) I managed to get this guy some usable stats. The build was built around STR for necessity to the game, and I like to think I did my job well. The problem was the -10 to int and the -6 to cha. *note, he has a +36 to str, -6 to dex, +8 to con and a +2 to wiz as well* Final stats are 50 STR 10 DEX 26 CON 6 INT 18 WIS 6 CHA I rolled REALLY well :) So not too bad, he is capable of much more now through a thought processes rather then relying on instinct, but I REALY like the mute by choice idea; calls back to the big Native American chief in "One flew over the cuckoo's nest." oh, and he wasn't always this dumb, he was born with an Int of 12 and a cha of 12 (and an str of 22) and lived through two levels of Rogue before his transformation happened. And when I say transformation I mean having a half-golem template applied to him by a warlock, then having himself reverted back to completely flesh by a band of daggerspell mages/shapers who took pity on him(they probably should have just killed him). That little transformation left him very scarred in the mind, effecting both his personality and ability to think. As far as where I want to take him, I will take him down the Egoist route from the 3.0 Psion. I play in a 3.X game and we allow crossover. Why you might ask? well, when he gets ninth level powers he can shapechange, and with that ability for a limited time he can regain his ability to think and talk to others. I could probably do much more with him by making him a warrior type but I think screw that, this character wants more then anything to be able to understand the world like he used to again, if only for a short time.
Board_Rider 02-28-05, 11:59 AM	*note, he has a +36 to str, -6 to dex, +8 to con and a +2 to wiz as well* Final stats are 50 STR 10 DEX 26 CON 6 INT 18 WIS 6 CHA And when I say transformation I mean having a half-golem template applied to him by a warlock, then having himself reverted back to completely flesh by a band of daggerspell mages/shapers who took pity on him(they probably should have just killed him). That little transformation left him very scarred in the mind, effecting both his personality and ability to think. Are you playing an epic campaign? And they say 3.x ain't broken. What is the LA adjustment of a Half-Golem template?
Uber Goblin 02-28-05, 12:17 PM	no, the ECL of the character with two levels of rogue is only 2, yet his challenge rating is 5 so he does get docked XP just not in a LA form. There is no LA for a half golem but it increases the challenge rating by 3, I am also applying the Feral and Golem Incarnet templates to him, and he was born from a Goliath mother ( mixed between a feral Golgath and a Goliath, just like a mix between a Neanderthul and a Human ) due to rape. The Feral and Golaith give him a +2 LA while the Golem Incarnate gives him a -2 LA. He would be MUCH more powerful if I built him to stay a Half Golem and just said he makes his saves, but I really don't see that happening at his low level. And to let you know, 3.X is as broken as you let it become. Our group isn't too bad, but it is mostly about self policing. A problem this guy will run into will be sundering his own hands if he hits too hard, or breaking bones when he tries to lift his max. He is only flesh after all, no more golem in him.
Draco Strang 02-28-05, 12:39 PM	no, the ECL of the character with two levels of rogue is only 2, yet his challenge rating is 5 so he does get docked XP just not in a LA form. There is no LA for a half golem but it increases the challenge rating by 3, I am also applying the Feral and Golem Incarnet templates to him, and he was born from a Goliath mother ( mixed between a feral Golgath and a Goliath, just like a mix between a Neanderthul and a Human ) due to rape. The Feral and Golaith give him a +2 LA while the Golem Incarnate gives him a -2 LA. He would be MUCH more powerful if I built him to stay a Half Golem and just said he makes his saves, but I really don't see that happening at his low level. And to let you know, 3.X is as broken as you let it become. Our group isn't too bad, but it is mostly about self policing. A problem this guy will run into will be sundering his own hands if he hits too hard, or breaking bones when he tries to lift his max. He is only flesh after all, no more golem in him. Your first paragraph utterly and completely contradictory to your second. I want you to go back and read what you wrote. I'll wait.......... ...... ...... ...... Ok, now that we've read that over, let's consider the following: I am also applying the Feral and Golem Incarnet templates he was born from a Goliath mother ( mixed between a feral Golgath and a Goliath, just like a mix between a Neanderthul and a Human ) due to rape There is no LA for a half golem but it increases the challenge rating by 3 And finally, something you said in the last paragraph: 3.X is as broken as you let it become. I think you done snapped it over your knee. And I forgot, we're tossing in 9th level 3.0 psionic powers. Yea, that balances it out a whole lot. This character hurts my head when I think about it. How can you even justify a concept like this and tell us it's not broken, and you guys are good about self-policing? You pulled material from 4 or 5 different books, easy. And that's just your character. I shudder to think about any feats and equipment this dude has. However, I will admit that if your group is fighting a half-fiend half dragon feral advanced dire devastation beetle, you should be able to pull through handily. Good luck.
Board_Rider 02-28-05, 02:01 PM	Look Uber Goblin, I am not knocking your game, character or your group. But where are these templates at? You better bet that I will hide them if my players can only suffer a penalty of an LA+2 with all of the abilities you have wrote that you aquired. Are there HD that come with the template? I agree that 3.x is only as broken as you let it become as a DM. However sometimes there are things that a DM cannot control while at the same time remembering rules, being creative and letting his/her players have a good time. The problem increases further when a player buys his/her own WoTC book and wants to use something out of it. Lets look at your character here... If you wanted to play this and I said no as your DM, you probably wouldn't like it. Either way, whatever....I just want to see these templates....
Draco Strang 02-28-05, 08:12 PM	Either way, whatever....I just want to see these templates.... The Golemn Incarnate one is what I am dying to see. And make sure my players never see.
Dragontooth 02-28-05, 08:50 PM	Sounds like something that is Homebrew. Of course I could be wrong.
hat 02-28-05, 09:27 PM	Although there is no published LA for the Half-Golem templates, it is relatively easy to work out using the level adjustment calculator. I would recomend undertaking such a project (assigning a realistic LA to the template that is), otherwise, what is the point. As far as I know challenge ratings mean squat when applied to a Player Character, unless of course you get killed by monsters and the DM decides to give them (the monsters) XP for defeating such a monstrosity. :confused: Here is the ECL Calculator: http://csserver.evansville.edu/~jc84/DD3/Monster_ECL.htm Here is a thread discussing half golem level adjustments, I think they may be too low: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=64897
hat 02-28-05, 09:29 PM	Double post...sorry
hat 02-28-05, 09:30 PM	Wow...first ever triple post, come to think of it, that was also my first double post. Oh well, I guess that is what you get for being impatient :weep:
Xanthia 02-28-05, 10:15 PM	alright, here is my issue. I have a build that will reduce my characters CHA and INT to 3 while my wisdom will be 20, and I am looking into divine casting as well... How is this possible! How should I act with this? two words to a sentance yet I just know things intuaitively? I was once given an example: INT is the ability to identifie a step in your path, what texture it is, the color and hues it has, what rock type it is ect ect. While WIZ is the ability to know you need to lift your foot to not trip over it. With this combo I am thinking his intuative instincts will be very advance, just not his metal capacity... Try a Druid. Clerics need CHA for Turning.
DevilKiller 02-28-05, 10:18 PM	Hmm, I'd think somebody with a 50 Str would beat able to beat up enough monsters and get enough gold to buy a headband of intellect +6 and a cloak of charisma +6.
warningfireexit 02-28-05, 10:40 PM	Int 3 and Cha 3 but Wis 20. Wow. It just means you're really in tune with your surroundings. Very stupid and disgusting. It's okay. Just kind of retarded to play from a roleplaying standpoint. All I have to say is. Get sense motive.
PhaedrusXY 03-01-05, 12:22 AM	The Golemn Incarnate one is what I am dying to see. And make sure my players never see.It's in Savage Species. There's a 9th level spell that turns golems into fleshy creatures, and the result is a golem with the Incarnate Construct template applied to them.
ehrin 03-01-05, 12:25 AM	Int 3, Cha 3, Wisdom 20, Strength Godlike... sounds like a hacked off grizzly bear, with mange and hibernation breath, pumped full of steroids via an enema.
Uber Goblin 03-01-05, 01:41 AM	First off I just want to put down, like many of my other posts, if you don't have constructive criticism, please don't post. My games are very role-play intensive and odd and unique characters do not get in the way of mechanics, and allow for a new kind of role-play. I wanted to come in with a very High str character and I think my DM will be pleasantly surprised the way I thought outside the box with tailoring an interesting storyline with an interesting combination of templates. After all, my DM is the guy who dropped an ocean full of holy water on an undead island to end the 40th level character CON :D he likes ideas that get the job done :D Now a couple of things I would like to address before I go on. 1) 50 STR can be more a curse then a blessing. What happens if you are able to accelerate your own fist to smack into something to equal 50 str in real life? You sunder your own fist. My DM will no doubtable apply this to my character when he doesn't pull his punches or when he tries to dead lift a very heavy object. He is not made of Adamantine anymore. 2) Think about this thing, from a role-play standpoint, not about numbers anymore. There is a big ugly with four arms. How am I going to deal with that? You better believe that the first two levels he takes (before his transformation) in rouge will be used to max out his disguise, those arms are going to be horrible for town interaction. Also if he is seen too much he will attract unwanted attention, and any wizard (or anyone who can use a wand of feeble mind or any like spell ) worth their merit will be able to incapacitate him easy. Just because a character has Muscles like titans does not make him invulnerable to a Coupe De Grace from an assassin while he sleeps. 3) Self policing is about how you use an item, not what you have. If you get the kill all end all combo and use it all the time you attract not only ALOT of role-play negative attention, but make the game not fun. How is it fun if you can beat up all the enemies easy with a 3 spell instant kill? What I have here is a character who must hide his abilities out of necessity. Not only do I have a role-play reason to police my use of power, but also I have a personal interest in keeping a challenge. 4) And lastly, after reading some posts about INT being IQ/10 I relised a 30 IQ is simply unplayable, you are all right. I would spend my time banging into things and would be less useful then an actual Golem because of my free thought. So I bit the bullet and put my second highest stat into INT I am now at the cusp of retarded to just plain dumb with a 7 int and for flavor I will say he has 71 IQ just so he isn't clinically retarded. He also has a like CHA so he will be a little more forceful of personality. These changes where made due to all the "lovely" criticism I got, and thank you all for your wonderfully "colorful" renditions of my role-play ability :D Now, onto my small post I have taken some thought with his storyline in mind. The Egoist was an idea, but honestly I don't see him understanding the mechanics of the Psionics to be able to use them. So I am thinking what would fit the best with him? Simple; Occult Slayer. Look what a warlock did to him... His mind is broken, and he knows it...
Board_Rider 03-01-05, 01:58 PM	First off I just want to put down, like many of my other posts, if you don't have constructive criticism, please don't post.... There was constructive criticism here. But it, apparently, was criticism you did not like. But you used it. How was it not constructive? 1) 50 STR can be more a curse then a blessing. What happens if you are able to accelerate your own fist to smack into something to equal 50 str in real life? You sunder your own fist. My DM will no doubtable apply this to my character when he doesn't pull his punches or when he tries to dead lift a very heavy object. He is not made of Adamantine anymore.... I have no idea where you get this game mechanic at..or where your DM would find it. I see no application of Newtons Law in D&D. Look buddy, if your DM allows it and you WANT to play it, fine. Were you looking for some kind of justification here? Your game and character....if you want to go someplace with it then great. But remember that you are on a public forum and as such are going to get the honest opinion from people. Whether you think it is honest criticism or not. Good Day.
Enialis Galadonels 03-01-05, 02:58 PM	Criticism or no criticism, but here is my opinion. Completely unplayable. That's not rant: if you ask how alive you are after jumping from Empire state building, I would say: Completely dead. Same thing here. 3 Int is very bad, but playable (I have played with Int 5). Small talk. Bad language. Don't remember anything (absolutely no combat tactics - flanking, disarming, etc.). bad, but playable. 3 Cha is unplayable. The DM could lead your character and you could sit at home, it would not make any difference whatsoever. Some time ago, there was well argumented discussion about low Cha. I will repeat it, but I will say that such character has personality of wet towel. And it should be played so. it would be just as often as other people talk/communicate/respect wet towel, they would respect such character. It wouldn't have NO importance for anybody. This character wouldn't be he, but it. A little bit less important than empty place, because you can use empty place for something. MHO
Draco Strang 03-01-05, 03:44 PM	Seriously...we're not calling you an uber-munchkin retard or anything. We're just asking how you actually plan to play this, and does it legally fit together? Putting your Int down as 7 will help a lot. Now he is just stupid, and not unable to speak. As BoardRider said, there's no way your uber-strength will cause your own fist to implode. *Real* physics don't apply in D&D. Also...we're still waiting on where these templates are found. I'm quite curious.
grishenko 03-01-05, 04:07 PM	I am still realy interested in getting the full rules around those templates... For instance the half-golem template - Level Adjustment does not exist say you? Well; the rules clearly states that if a monster does not have a level adjustment that means that the monster is not suitable as a player race. Also; how many hit die does the template have? WotC often use hitdie to balance this out - example is the Werebear template, he still only has +2 LA if he is inflicted, but he also has 6 racial hit die. I played a Werebear Dwarf Barbarian and in a party with a 10th level cleric and a 10th level monk my character was only 2nd level barbarian (+6 hit die + 2 LA = 10 ECL). So, my suggestion to you. (If you want to follow the rules...) Use the level adjustment calculator to find a level adjustment for half-golem (it should always be equal or higher than the CR of the monster used as an example!), then add the racial hit dies of the monster, and there you have your BASE characters Effective Character Level. Then apply the other two templates and add their level adjustments as well, that is your actuall Effective Character Level.
Keenath 03-01-05, 04:32 PM	The 3/20/3 character is, as noted, probably nigh-unplayable. But a few comments. 1) The "einstein brain". No! That's not an example of high wisdom. Thinking the word 'particle' is an INT 12 thing to start with. :P 2) The Elephant Man. No! Cha 3 doesn't mean you fell down the ugly tree and hit every branch. It means a weak personality. Though he might be ugly as well, a low charisma has more to do with lacking force of personality. 3) Autistic. This is possible, but not the only interpretation of a 3/20/3 character. The low charisma is the worst bit of this build. With that sort of charisma, you probably would never have the impulse to actually do anything but stare. Up it to 6 and you have something marginally playable. With a 3/20/6 build, I would play him as a raised-by-wolves type druid, who basically thinks the same way his surrogate parents do. He may understand one language, but only imperfectly, and wouldn't speak any more than a wolf speaks -- grunts and growls, perhaps a few small words. I would use a druid build, and prepare mostly spells relating to the abilities of the animals he considers his family, rather than big evocations. Perhaps one or two explosive attacks to use when he really gets enraged. High wisdom doesn't mean you're smart. It means you're sensitive to your environment. A 20 wisdom dumb guy would probably be very sensitive to things like magical disturbances, but not really able to analyze WHAT is it. He'd just sense 'something wrong here'.
Darrin 03-01-05, 05:42 PM	Another way to look at it would be similar to autism. Im not remembering the name, but the movie had Bruce Willis. There was an autistic kid that cracked super-difficult code because some stupid jerks at the pentagon put it in a search word puzzle book. Anyone know what im talking about? The kid solved it by lookin at it, he was that smart. Yet his verbal capacity stank worse than a skunk bathing in rotten eggs. This make sence? *bow* Darrin Note: I just did some back reading. Hmmm, I hate when I come up with a good idea then jump straight to the reply .. only to find that its been replied already. *shrug* oh well.
Heironymus_Vann 03-01-05, 05:43 PM	Examples of six: Int 6 - Forest Gump Cha 6 - the wierd, mumbling guy from "Office Space" (can't recall the name) So imagine what a "3" is like... essentially unable to think or communicate, and with so little "sense of self" that he would be beneath notice. I would probably say such a character really cannot be a cleric or druid, since you have to pray for spells and you would be too stupid to pray... plus, your own god would either hate or ignore you (cha 3) and would be unlikely to grant spells. At best, you have some kind of intense ability to resist mental attacks, maybe because there's not much "mental" there. Maybe, maybe I could see such a character as a kind of "idiot savant", a sort of divine one-trick pony, like maybe a favored soul who can only cast healing spells. I can totally see some incommunicado idiot but who's "purity of spirit" allows him to serve as a channel for healing power, or something. You would certainly need to come up with a concept explaining the ability to channel divine power instinctively. Maybe you heal anything that's injured, friend or foe? GM: Okay, so and so takes (rolls dice) seventeen point of damage... idiot-boy, you're up, what do you do? Idiot-Boy: I say "uurgh!!!" and I lurch doltishly over to so and so and cast cure critical. so-and-so: I recoil in horror from Idiot-Boy's 3 cha... actually, I'll go ahead and AoO him... I'm just not seeing it as a PC... maybe some wierd NPC the party encounters. It would get old, quickly. HV
sooperspook 03-01-05, 07:07 PM	A crocodile. seriously. take a look at the MM and check out the animal stats. a croc has a Cha of 2 and an Int of 2. a baboon has a Cha of 4, only slightly better than yours. so my suggestion, look at the animal closest to your characters stats/personality and play it that way. If Croc is the closest then you think about food a lot and dont bother moving until you feel like it. If your playing a 'Baboon' then you tend to do watever the leader of your 'troop' tells you to do. you wont think about consequences, you'll just do it. you sure as heck wont bother to disguise your self because you just wont think or care about what others think. You'll expect or sense others hostility( Wis) but you wont do anything about it except perhaps snarl (dont have the Int to think about it). You probably wont bathe unless someone tells you to or you find a river to play in. thats another thing. play. you'll build mudpies, bash bushes with sticks cos you like the sound, run around chasing butterflies, basically act like a 3 year old. anyways, while i disagree on the LA for this character i dont see it as unplayable. perhaps not very survivable :P , but not unplayable.
moustache guy 03-01-05, 07:09 PM	:confused: Okay, Uber. So I've just seen your build on the Character optimization boards, and I really have to ask your general purpose and motivation as a player. This isn't an attack, just an honest question that you need to evaluate for yourself. So role-players, stereotypically, generate the character's story first, and then flesh out the details of the character. (I'm not using these terms in a deragatory manner.) Min/maxers, powergamers, hack n' slashers make the character sheet first and then fit a story to the sheet, if they fit a story at all. It's important to differentiate because, in general, role-players have better stories than roll-players, and roll-players have stronger characters than role-players. And neither side is right or wrong, it's just a personal preference. So if you really want this highly unusual build, and it's cool with your DM and fellow players, then just go for the 3 Int, 26 Wis, 3 Cha. I'm guessing that you game with people who like to game the way you do. So they won't really care if some of your stats are that low, and they won't care how you play it. By posting in these boards you solicited the advice of the "role-players" (like myself) who get tired of people with crazy builds and really low stats. That's why so many of us balked at your stats, while no one on the character optimization boards even mentioned your low stats. Seriously, if your DM will let you re-roll your stats so you can get four 18's (statistically that's really hard) then it really doesn't matter how you role-play your character. You could easily get away with a sullen priest who speaks only in proverbs. Once you determine what kind of player you are. (Or perhaps just how you want to play this character.) And also determine what kind of people you will be playing with, stuff like, "How should I play him." will come more easily to you.
Uber Goblin 03-02-05, 01:08 AM	Just to let everyone know, most people did give me excellent criticism, so much to the point that I upped this character’s INT and CHA. It's past 6 but I am still unsure whether I want him at 8 int or 7 int, that is something I can work out with my DM. Since he had an ungodly STR after the Half-Golem template I found it really didn't matter to much if I put a lower score into the STR, just not too low for his own personal Nickname as a Goliath, being Beast-Wrestler. Now, what I am planning for him is still an enigma. I am... troubled by what classes to assign to him. Right now I am going with the Hex Blade for role-play purposes. His storyline is as follows, and this is the abridged version: Raised by a single mother, though in a tribe situation this isn't such a big deal. He was the product of Rape from a crafty Feral Golgath, so I gave this Goliath the Feral template to represent this. He lived through three levels of his life being a black sheep of the tribe, just because his personality at the time tended to make him a loner elitist. He did however love to venture out into the wild. On one such trip he was stalking a dangerous creature, a dire Wolf who had a fell taint. When stalking the creature it happened on a young group of rogues and druids. It was making short work of them when My character happened on them and wrestled the wolf. My character showed the wolf why 3-5 natural attacks work so much better in a grapple then one( thus his nickname) and actually inadvertently saved two of the druids and a rogue ( the ones left alive). That night he made friends outside the tribe, and entertained them with his storytelling, though it was brash, he had a lot of practice in the tribe and the others found it very entertaining. They parted the next day. Arriving back at the Tribe he found himself under a shunning from his long departure and being the loner he was decided it time to find a greener pasture. After saying his goodbyes to his friends (who ignored him) and kissing his mother on the cheek ( and the Chief’s daughter, just not on the cheek...) he was off. After a small time wandering ill fortune fell on him and he was captured by an arcanist's cult. They where conducting experimentations with Golems and thought this one to be a wonderful specimen. I wont go into details about what happened to him there, what I will say is he failed his will save on the Golem Template and was turned to a mindless creature bent on evil, yet kept as a guardian for the cult's tower...for many many years. Such actions are hardly overlooked, especially when a certain tower puts out abomination after abomination, and eventually it attracted the eyes of the Spelldaggers. They raided and destroyed the Cult's base of operations, but guess who happened onto the remains of my character? The two Druids and the Rouge he saved who where now high members of the Spelldaggers. They remembered the one who saved their life and took pity on him. They used their Divine and Arcane magics to bring the Goliath back to the world of the living, and through an atonement gave him the chance again to choose his own path. That act of kindness and pity instilled in him a new sense of conscious, and allowed him to change his alignment to Good, even though he lost a good portion of his abilities. He was redeemed ( NOT THE TEMPLATE ) and lived his life thereon with the spelldaggers. He was unfortunately too mentally scared from his treatment to catch onto the arcanist version of the group, and was too out of touch with the natural world to pick up the druidic aspects. I am giving him a non-mechanic limitation that his horrific treatment has left him unable to channel natural divine energies; he will need a deities intervention (ex. clerical magic). He now ventures to find himself once again and come to grips with what he has become. This is where he leaves the spelldaggers and finds our party. I am thinking for a future movement for him is to define his Chaotic - Lawful alignment later in the game. I think he will become lawful due to an influence in the party by our Kensi to be, a lawful good fighter, and might even follow that one through the levels of Kensi. But only time can tell for him. Now for some mechanics: Goliath template is in Races of Stone Feral and Golem Incarnate templates are in Savage Species The Half-Golem Template is in Monster Manual 2, and there is no LA to it and by core standards is considered unplayable. I did add a little homebrew to it and figured in what STR mod a Half Adamantine Golem would have based on the charts. The Golem Incarnate takes away most of the special abilities of the Half-Golem Template but does leave the stats. I could argue that since my CHA and INT dropped to 1 when I was under the influence of the golem that I should be able to re-roll those stats(as via the template states), along with my CON but instead I opted to just receive what stats I would have had if I had made the will save, made more sense to me with the storyline. This was a nerf for flavor more then anything and spawned the origin of the post. Since then I have opted for a higher INT and CHA by putting high stat scores into them. All in all, The half Golem Template has a +3 challenge rating, The Goliath and Feral both have a +1 LA mod to both of them and the Golem Incarnate has a -2 LA.
PoeticJustice 03-02-05, 01:35 AM	:mymy: What a long, bewildering story... I think you're trying way too hard to justify this character. He is what he is (a munched out strength monkey) and nothing's going to change that. There's nothing inherently wrong about playing that kind of character, but that's what he is. I am satisfied that you understand the weaknesses of this build, but honestly, if your DM'll let you play a 50 STR character at level 5 (or 20, for that matter...) then I doubt he's the type to throw intelligent monsters at you.
Uber Goblin 03-02-05, 01:40 AM	Quite on the contrary. He plays monsters too intelligent in my opinion, and when a creature has time to prepare for us...well, we die ;) He is a HARD HARD DM, and everything is a challenge, even walking to the next town. This character will be a challenge, and just exsisting will be hard for him, but I also think it will be very rewarding if I can make him servive for a few levels. Remeber, a wizard with a fly spell and a few magic missles can kill him still, he is just a big dumb brute. and BTW, thats the short version, the real version has three chapters.
moustache guy 03-02-05, 02:32 AM	I know you gave us the abridged version. Some minor things... 1. Have you considered wh his mother ever kept him in the first place? Many rape victims do no keep the resulting child. 2. LOL Kiss the chieften's daughter? Not with a Cha 6. Probably not even with a Cha 10. Maybe a Cha 14. And no, no "she loved the shy guy" or "she liked the lonely guy" works to explain this. Cha 6 chars don't get the pretty/powerful mates. 3. Storytelling. Maybe, but not likely. You described him as an elite loner. He also has a low Cha. I would think such a character would play a wind instrument instead, if he performs at all. 4. Consistency problem. OK, so he was captured by mages powerful and rich enough to perform multiple experiments with golems? And not just any golem, adamantime golems? Unless his rescuers were like level 20, then it is highly unlikely that they stormed your captor's keep and saved you. It's also an awkward connection. You little low-level character has connections that high? Not likely. Another approach might be that you were captured by a single, evil mage who enslaved your character, transforming him and what not. He died of natural causes (or an experiment gone wrong) leaving your character still doing the daily chores. The Spelldaggers sent someone to investigate, and the 2 druids and rogue (and a few others) found you still working. It still took some doing to fully infiltrate the lab. (Even dead mages are dangerous.) But they eventually saved you. 5. Remember, he's supposed to be a low level character. (I think.) So don't give him too many grandiose events already. I am curious, if your DM is so hard, why spend so much time developing your character? If existance is hard, why bother? This is part of identifying what type of group you are gaming with. If characters are disposable, then there isn't much need to go into such depth. I can almost hear your DM's evil laugh as he has a sorceror pixe magic missile you to death.
sooperspook 03-02-05, 04:16 AM	4. Consistency problem. OK, so he was captured by mages powerful and rich enough to perform multiple experiments with golems? And not just any golem, adamantime golems? Unless his rescuers were like level 20, then it is highly unlikely that they stormed your captor's keep and saved you. It's also an awkward connection. You little low-level character has connections that high? Not likely. . I disagree, i when i play, and my players when i DM ave had really high connections even at first level. It just depends on how those connections influence you. We had one wizard who apprenticed to a high level wizard. The archwizard never got involved in our adventures but did serve as a plot hook device for our DM. being sent off to find wierd and wonderful compnents. escorting treasure and magic to his clients etc...
Uber Goblin 03-02-05, 12:49 PM	1. Have you considered why his mother ever kept him in the first place? Many rape victims do no keep the resulting child. Same reason people who are anti abortion keep children, or people who have been raped by thier fathers keep children, cause they love them (the children). Ever watch "The color purple"? 2. LOL Kiss the chieften's daughter? Not with a Cha 6. Probably not even with a Cha 10. Maybe a Cha 14. And no, no "she loved the shy guy" or "she liked the lonely guy" works to explain this. Cha 6 chars don't get the pretty/powerful mates. Who said she was willing! :D 3. Storytelling. Maybe, but not likely. You described him as an elite loner. He also has a low Cha. I would think such a character would play a wind instrument instead, if he performs at all. Storytelling is an intrical part of Goliathan culture, even the most brain dead of them all will have some skill in it. And please note, at this point in his life he has around 12-14 CHA and INT. It's not untill later he that he gets the brain damage. 4. Consistency problem. OK, so he was captured by mages powerful and rich enough to perform multiple experiments with golems? And not just any golem, adamantime golems? Unless his rescuers were like level 20, then it is highly unlikely that they stormed your captor's keep and saved you. It's also an awkward connection. You little low-level character has connections that high? Not likely. Given the amount of time he was held there as a Half-Golem I see no reason to think that a level 1 in 430 years ( roughly ) can't advance to level 20 or higher. Hell! I know humans who have done it in 20 years! That's a year a level! I don't recall half-Golems or constructs having an age limit. 5. Remember, he's supposed to be a low level character. (I think.) So don't give him too many grandiose events already. This game works a bit different. We are very much hero type characters. Most of us as normal core races have extremely high stats and very unique builds. We are Paragons of our races, and trust me, we need every single little tiny bit of help in the campaign. I am curious, if your DM is so hard, why spend so much time developing your character? If existance is hard, why bother? This is part of identifying what type of group you are gaming with. If characters are disposable, then there isn't much need to go into such depth. I can almost hear your DM's evil laugh as he has a sorceror pixe magic missile you to death. This one breaks my heart. Can you ask Anthony Hopkins why he goes so far into Hannibal's character in red dragon? Or why red shirt #2 has a character analysis sheet even though he dies in the first two minutes of the show? Or why spear carrier #1 has outlined his relationship to the King in Hammlet? eh... it is just me. My trade is performing and my hobby is D&D. It just harkens back to my early conservatory days when I heard "there are no small parts, only small actors." I think of that in D&D terms as “there are no underdeveloped characters, only underdeveloped players." And what if my character makes it? Then I should make up a story on the fly? Not for me. Besides, if this character dies he just goes into my fully developed NPC file for when I DM :) Thank you for your critiques though and I welcome anything else.
moustache guy 03-02-05, 01:45 PM	Ok, ok. Cool. One last thing, storywise. I see no reason to think that a level 1 in 430 years ( roughly ) can't advance to level 20 or higher. I see a very good reason. They all died from old age in that time! Elves, the longest lived core race, die at around 350 year old. I'd even say that once they get old (263 years for elves) that they stop adventuring. So that would limit you to at most 88 years in captivity. Also, if he was in captivity for 430 years, wouldn't freeing him from being a golem kill him? His life force was bound for 430 years to power the construct, much like a soul is bound to an undead entity. In reversing the process, your character becomes 430+ years old. I'm pretty sure that's much longer than goliaths live. So you would instantly die of old age. Essentially, they would reverse the process to free your soul. Which is still a nice thing to do. Oh I see. You're saying that he's still a half-golem. The problem with that is that he still uses the age progression of his base race. In this case, goliath. Also, the adventuring life is very dangerous. Whose to say that the party you saved from the wolf even made it to a high level? Is there a big reason for the 430 years part? Can you cut it back? I disagree, i when i play, and my players when i DM ave had really high connections even at first level. It just depends on how those connections influence you. We had one wizard who apprenticed to a high level wizard. The archwizard never got involved in our adventures but did serve as a plot hook device for our DM. being sent off to find wierd and wonderful compnents. escorting treasure and magic to his clients etc... Every character should have higher level connections, Sooperspork. Just not too high. Do you really see a 20th level Arch magi, who can fight demons on their home plane and win, stopping to go tutor some 1st level mages? I could totally see a 1st level apprentice with a 7th through 10th level master with a good story behind him. (think Jedi Knight and Padawan learner) But a 1st level character with 20th level connections is just over the top.
Draco Strang 03-02-05, 03:44 PM	I see a very good reason. They all died from old age in that time! Elves, the longest lived core race, die at around 350 year old. I'd even say that once they get old (263 years for elves) that they stop adventuring. So that would limit you to at most 88 years in captivity. Actually, elves can live to be up to 750 years, if you get lucky rolling your percentile dice. I believe 350 is a rather low estimate for elf-death. On the other hand....dwarves bite the dust around that age.
Callista 03-02-05, 03:59 PM	It wouldn't be far-fetched to think that repeated castings of the Clone spell were used to get identical creatures every time someone experimented on the PC. The Clone spell, after all, would be a mad scientist's dream... one could simply use the spell on the first animal, experiment on it until it died or you killed it, then activate the clone, rinse and repeat. Mental damage from that? Oh, yeah. Definitely.
Uber Goblin 03-02-05, 04:05 PM	Also, if he was in captivity for 430 years, wouldn't freeing him from being a golem kill him? His life force was bound for 430 years to power the construct, much like a soul is bound to an undead entity. In reversing the process, your character becomes 430+ years old. I'm pretty sure that's much longer than goliaths live. So you would instantly die of old age. Essentially, they would reverse the process to free your soul. Which is still a nice thing to do. I think of it more as stasis. And he is now a Goliath again, just horribly deformed. Also, the adventuring life is very dangerous. Whose to say that the party you saved from the wolf even made it to a high level? ME, cause its my story. :D Every character should have higher level connections, Sooperspork. Just not too high. Do you really see a 20th level Arch magi, who can fight demons on their home plane and win, stopping to go tutor some 1st level mages? I could totally see a 1st level apprentice with a 7th through 10th level master with a good story behind him. (think Jedi Knight and Padawan learner) But a 1st level character with 20th level connections is just over the top. For storyline I see no reason why a character can't have a meeting with a high level character. Also keep in mind the two druids. They paid the Goliath back for saving their lives, now the debt is paid and they don't owe him anything. They might have a friendly disposition, but if my character ever asked for a game unbalancing thing that was not used for plot purposes or certain character story advancement, I would expect my DM to not only deny me the item but put in some type of roll play consequences.
Uber Goblin 03-02-05, 04:07 PM	It wouldn't be far-fetched to think that repeated castings of the Clone spell were used to get identical creatures every time someone experimented on the PC. The Clone spell, after all, would be a mad scientist's dream... one could simply use the spell on the first animal, experiment on it until it died or you killed it, then activate the clone, rinse and repeat. Mental damage from that? Oh, yeah. Definitely. OMG I can be cloud from Final Fantasy 7!!! Where are my other clones! THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!
moustache guy 03-03-05, 01:56 AM	I think of it more as stasis. Well, that's not RAW, but OK. Also, you didn't answer the part about how the party you saved is still alive 430 years later without dying from old age. Even as elves, best case scenario is that they are 540 years old. That means that most likely they are dead from old age. ME, cause its my story. OK, but that is...well...not the best story telling. It's like a DM making a ruling, and when you question him, his only reply is "Because I said so." Again, not the best, but then this entire character is unorthodox. Actually, this whole story is a story fit to a character sheet, so it's not going to be the best it could be. *shrugs*
hughman 03-06-05, 01:34 AM	2) Think about this thing, from a role-play standpoint, not about numbers anymore. There is a big ugly with four arms. How am I going to deal with that? You better believe that the first two levels he takes (before his transformation) in rouge will be used to max out his disguise, those arms are going to be horrible for town interaction. Also if he is seen too much he will attract unwanted attention, and any wizard (or anyone who can use a wand of feeble mind or any like spell ) worth their merit will be able to incapacitate him easy. Just because a character has Muscles like titans does not make him invulnerable to a Coupe De Grace from an assassin while he sleeps. Had a guy at work once in RL. I figure he Maybe had a cha of 6. and that is being generous. There wasn't a person in the company that didn't dispise him and only the most saintly held off on that judgement for longer than the first few sentences. Sad thing is he is a very smart person, but would be better off locked up in a way far back office and spoken to only through Text messages. The Scary thing is that this guy was Maried! Applying this experience to your character, hiding the arms won't help much. After talking to this guy for 10 seconds they will Still want to kill him regardless. Hughman
Callista 03-06-05, 11:55 AM	Yeah... no one killed him, though, and no one fired him just for being annoying, right? So why should anyone kill or refuse to work with this character?
angryman 03-07-05, 02:40 AM	Hehe...you're less charismatic than a BABOON! That's fricken hilarious! Imagine a baboon flinging excrement at you and flashing its big red butt. You are LESS charismatic. That's fantastic! if you were in my party, I'd put a collar around your neck and charge people to see you. We'd travel across the lands, you blissfully unaware of your sense of self, me laughing all the way to the bank. Remember... baboon. You are LESS charismatic. baboon.
Dunelord 03-07-05, 07:10 AM	Thing one what is this thing that he can have a 20 wisdom? Second it CAN be done well. Thing two what are your goals for him? I was thinking about playing a Sor with brain damage or such having an intell of about 4 or 5, high Cha whose goal for adventureing was to gain magic items that uped his intellgence to a normal score.
angryman 03-07-05, 11:06 AM	You can play him, but he'll be playing second fiddle to the baboons. :rolleyes:
Uber Goblin 03-08-05, 03:36 AM	I will admit this character was first a "neato idea" before he became an actual serious idea. I used the same technique I use to decipher a character I am portraying on stage. First I look at the givens, in a script it is the intrinsic knowledge the play write gives the actor. For this character it is the character sheet and what is written about a given race, time period and location. But I would like to make one point about making something around a character rather then writing a story and taking a character out of that story. Shakespeare sampled many stock characters from play writes during his time. He would make the interesting character(s) first and then write a story to fit them, granted he was a master at adaptation and not all his plays are done in this fashion but many are. With my DM I must state again that he is a hard hard DM, so most of the creations I have are based around the ability to survive and thrive. Also the party needed a meat shield and I though this guy would be great. Now moving onto the topic of playability, with a low CHA and high WIZ I wanted to look into the virtue of humility. Someone who knows they are not charismatic might keep their mouth shut until they must absolutely talk. From here I also meditated on overcompensation. Someone with a low force of will might act very forceful and aggressive to overcompensate for a low self-esteem. I am still playing with the ideas, but I think a calm collective manner with humility and the ability to intuitively figure out a situation will work well for this character. The aggression will be tacked on from his past life ( before the trauma ) and will at times come out, but then he will fight to stay reserved again. Stoic would be a good way to describe him. His super objective is to revive his mind's functions and faculties to where they originally where. Small objectives will depend on the story the DM gives the party. Now to address a few things... OK, but that is...well...not the best story telling. It's like a DM making a ruling, and when you question him, his only reply is "Because I said so." Again, not the best, but then this entire character is unorthodox. Let me elaborate on this. I have already written this story, if they didn't survive the character would have never lived. It is like a chain of events in a play, for one thing to happen it must have a catalyst that causes another thing to happen. In my story he makes friends with his saviors, and saves their life. Because of this the character does not live out the rest of his days as a Half-Golem. Had he not saved the characters in my story he would have been slain in the sacking of the wizard's keep. For instance, say you work in a power plant, and one day you wake up to find your car has been towed. Your forced to take the buss to work and end up being 2 hours late. When you arrive you find that the plant had a containment leak and now everyone who arrived to work on time is either dead or on death's door from radiation poisoning. You would have been one of those to die, but because of a small incident in your life you managed to avoid death. Same with the character, if and only if A then B, it's like Platonic(symbolic) Logic. If A happens then B happens so if A does not happen be cannot happen. Thus if the party did not survive my character would have died as well. Also, if he was in captivity for 430 years, wouldn't freeing him from being a golem kill him? His life force was bound for 430 years to power the construct, much like a soul is bound to an undead entity. In reversing the process, your character becomes 430+ years old. I'm pretty sure that's much longer than goliaths live. So you would instantly die of old age. Essentially, they would reverse the process to free your soul. Which is still a nice thing to do. As for the Stasis, Once the creature's Type changed from Monstrous Humanoid to Construct he stopped aging. When the Golem Incarnate spell was cast he became a mortal again. technically I could reroll his "nothing stats" as the template suggested but I felt I would rather have something with a role-play challenge and uniqueness to it. The last character I played was a Country Bumpkin who was a warrior, not fighter. He was a strait shot of a character, this time I wanted to play something more interesting.
moustache guy 03-08-05, 12:50 PM	Hi Goblin. I'm only pointing these things out because they are very large holes in your story. First, your character does not need the party he saved to in turn be saved. I think you fell in love with the idea, though. So why not make it reasonable that the party is alive, well, and still adventuring. The first thing to change would be the fact that you were in captivity for 430 years. Is there some specific reason why you won't change this or address it in your posts? First, it's very unbelieveable that anyone would even remember you after 430 years. Second, it is still unlikely that anyone is still alive after 430 years. The only race that would even survive that long would be elves. Even then, the elves would be venerable and likely not adventuring. Point: You need to cut back his time spent in captivity to about 10 years if you're saved by humans or something less than 100 years if your saved by longer lived races. Even then, I still doubt they would remember you. Next, you have your character held captive by an extremely powerful group of mages. This, again, isn't very believable. Why didn't anyone attack this powerful group of evil mages who were carrying out evil experiments on the innocent before your party came along? If the wizards are that powerful, what is to say that anyone ever finds them or beats them? You need to scale the power of your captor back to a believable scale. Perhaps a single, aging wizard captured you and experimented on you. He was doing experiments to figure out the ritual to become a lich. He died before he could figure it out, but his evil acts lived on through his creations and evil spells in his sanctuary. The party you saved saves the day. Point: You need to scale the power of your captor to something beatable by the party you saved. You also posted that it was necessary for the party he saved to survive so that he could be saved. This is a logical non sequiter. he could have been saved by a totally different, good, adventuring party. A wizard would be able to tell what kind of construct you were, and that you were a sentient being trapped as a construct. By their sheer nature they would try to save you. Also, if you're concerned with a logical path within your story, why won't you address the points I have raised above? Point: Don't be imprisoned by your own story. You need to be flexible on points to allow for good storytelling. You are absolutely right about Shakespeare building characters first and then a story. It is an acknowledged and well used writing technique. The major difference between Shakespeare and this situation, though, is that Shakespeare did not limit himself to a very stringent character sheet. Multiple classes and/or templates are very difficult to explain storywise. These restrictions are why a story fit to a character sheet, such as your own, will never be great.
Uber Goblin 03-08-05, 03:27 PM	*sighs* moustache guy, I am sorry but I have to disagree with everything you have posted. But I have grown rather tired of arguing with you why my story is the way it is. If you can't except that certain things are the way they are because that’s how the author wanted them to be, and needed them to be to construct a literary device then you will be disagreeing with every major literary work that has anything slightly far fetched or fantastic. Guess what bud, this is FANTASY, fantastic things happen. Elves get longevity potions, people travel in time, and humans ascend to higher beings and live forever. If you would like, feel free to write a story where someone is captured by an aging wizard and is only kept in captivity for 10 years and saved by a party he doesn't know. My story consists of a specific person who does specific things. Because of these specific things specific people hurt and help the individual. No matter how much brow beating I receive I will not change the dates or people in my story. They are there for a reason, and they are not even the subject of this post in the first place. The subject is how a person would correctly play a character with a low score in both INT and CHA with a high WIZ. Originally it was 3 for int and cha, but from the wonderful feedback I received I found that this player would be almost unplayable, and certainly I would not have fun playing them. So I tossed around the stats I rolled and brought the stats up to 8 int and 6 cha ( yes this is the final number ) with a 19 wisdom. I think this character would be FAR more playable and fun. If anyone has anything more to add that is on subject feel free. I am still analyzing what a character with such stats would act like and am looking into the possibility of wisdom also affecting the ability to reason. Please post if you have comments on the thought that philosophy may be intuitive or intelligence driven or both. I am leaning towards intuitive, but one must first understand the tools, Thus a character that at one time had a decent INT might be able to still comprehend quite a few things, and understand things they are familure with, but might have a hard time picking up new ideals, tricks, and concepts. If you want to critique my ABRIDGED version of my story, please message me privately and we can discuss in length why I chose what I chose.
moustache guy 03-08-05, 04:17 PM	I was merely criticizing what we were given. I know the original purpose of the thread was role-playing certain mental stats, but you're the one who brought up the character's story to be evaluated alongside his stats; and hence, redirected the topic of discussion. Think about this thing, from a role-play standpoint... I have taken some thought with his storyline in mind... His storyline is as follows, and this is the abridged version:... I was only tring to help you further grasp your character's mental stats by assisting you develop your story. By posting your character's story you invited criticisim on it as well. That is why PoeticJustice said: What a long, bewildering story... I am sorry if you have taken offense. Punching holes in one another's stories is a common method of criticism among writers. And it is not intended to be mean; it's purpose is to aid the author in fully fleshing out the story and/or character. Next time, if you don't want advice or criticism on a given topic, do not post it to the thread.
Atar 03-08-05, 04:56 PM	I'd just like to note that with that much strength you could challenge Odin or Tulkas and wrestle them to death easy. The average gods balance around 30 [anything] in their most important stat. You have 50 at level 5. Yeah. Right. ;)
Uber Goblin 03-08-05, 05:56 PM	moustache guy, I just didn't want to persue this particular venue on the public boards anymore, I would like to continue with the original topic. Your criticism has helped me form new conclusions and strenghthen original choises on my part. But back to the topic and hand, please.