Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wdarkk 03-01-04, 11:15 PM	Recently my party completed a quest for a mining town and received a reward of a few thousand GP and a magical mithril chain shirt (maybe it was chainmail, I forget) each. The problem? I'm a Wizard! Currently I have 3 options: 1. Sell it. I don't like this option much because I'd probably end up with only half value. 2. Wear it, accept small ASF. I don't like this option because I hate ASF and would be really :censored::censored::censored::censored: :censored::censored: off if I lost any of my spells. Also I already own Bracers of Armor (although they're only +2 ATM). 3. Attempt to eliminate the ASF magically, then wear it. With the BOED's "Twilight" enhancement (I think that's the right one, I don't have my own copy yet), I might be able to eliminate ASF entirely, and just sell the bracers. I'm not sure, however, if I have to be Exalted to use the Twilight property armor - I'm probably not going to be able to live up to that standard. 4. Attempt to eliminate the ASF via PrCs. Not actually an option.
Tonus 03-02-04, 02:35 AM	Personally, I find the 10% ASF for a mithril shirt to be a small price to pay for +4 ac for a low level caster. Its great until you can get your hands on +4 bracers. There's some useful low level spells with no somatic components (so no ASF chance) too. There's also the fact that you won't immediately *look* like a caster. For greater effect, carry a gnarly looking reach weapon. (Sure you take a -4 proficiency penalty, but it's not like you expect to hit anything with your dagger anyway.) Having a line of archers all target you in the surprise round because you are the only member of the party not wearing armor can be *painful*...
Joe Khol 03-02-04, 07:11 AM	Who is in your party? Even if you are talking about NPCs or followers can any of them make better use out of the armour? If you can't practically use it, selling it is the best option. The value of an item isn't how much it costs but how much benefit it gives you. If you'd get better benefit from the money you'd get by selling it (and I suspect you can) I'd go for that option.
SmiloDan 03-02-04, 09:05 AM	Maybe trade it for an Amulet of Natural Armor +1 and a Ring of Protection +1 or +2? Are there magic shops or wizarding friends in your campaign?
Goreg Skullcrusher 03-02-04, 10:07 AM	Your best bet is to use the armor, and sell off the bracers. (Especially if it's a chain shirt). You do not need to be exalted to use the Twilight armour enhancement. Let me show you: Twilight Mithril Chain Shirt +1 AC: 5 Armor Check: 0 Max Dex Bonus: 6 ASF: 0% Weight: 12.5 pds Cost to upgrade: 4000 gp. Twilight Mithril Chainmail +1 AC: 6 Armor Check: 2 Max Dex Bonus: 4 ASF: 10% Weight: 20 pds Cost to upgrade: 4000 You get 2000 gp for selling the bracers. The total cost to you is 2000 gp in either case.
wdarkk 03-02-04, 12:32 PM	Twilight looks like my best bet, then - unless it's chainmail and not a chain shirt (although I think it's a chain shirt), armor check makes my ranged touch attacks much less likely to hit. I'll check with my DM and pick up the BOED before next session. Being able to wear it seems best to me. I do have a party, but everyone got the same reward, even NPCs who were helping us.
ZappoHisbane 03-02-04, 02:48 PM	Originally posted by wdarkk Twilight looks like my best bet, then - unless it's chainmail and not a chain shirt (although I think it's a chain shirt), armor check makes my ranged touch attacks much less likely to hit. I'll check with my DM and pick up the BOED before next session. The armor check penalty has nothing to do with ranged touch attacks. From the SRD Armor Check Penalty: Any armor heavier than leather hurts a character’s ability to use some skills. An armor check penalty number is the penalty that applies to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks by a character wearing a certain kind of armor. Double the normal armor check penalty is applied to Swim checks. Also note that the max DEX bonus only applies to the max dex that you can apply to AC. It does not affect the bonus applied to ranged attacks, DEX-based skills, etc.
Krelios 03-02-04, 02:52 PM	You didn't quote enough of it... Armor Check Penalty: Any armor heavier than leather hurts a character’s ability to use some skills. An armor check penalty number is the penalty that applies to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks by a character wearing a certain kind of armor. Double the normal armor check penalty is applied to Swim checks. A character’s encumbrance (the amount of gear carried, including armor) may also apply an armor check penalty. Shields: If a character is wearing armor and using a shield, both armor check penalties apply. Nonproficient with Armor Worn: A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for nonproficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for nonproficiency with shields. Sleeping in Armor: A character who sleeps in medium or heavy armor is automatically fatigued the next day. He or she takes a –2 penalty on Strength and Dexterity and can’t charge or run. Sleeping in light armor does not cause fatigue. Since the wizard isn't proficient in even light armor, he would indeed suffer the armor check penalty on ranged touch attacks.
finishedup 03-02-04, 03:25 PM	Mithral shirts have no armor check penalty, and thus no attack penalty for non-proficient users. (if it was mithral chain-mail, then there would be a penalty).
Tony Vargas 03-02-04, 03:26 PM	Well, if you have item creation feats, then you can sell it off for half price and use the procedes to make something for half price (you're just out a few exp). You could save it for when you get a cohort. If these guys /made/ the mithral items for you as a reward, you could have requested a buckler (still no ASF, right?), or whatever backup weapon you use, instead (if it had to be something mithral) or some other item. If your party feels like being nice, they could give you a larger proportion of the cash, to make up for the armor not being of much use to you.
wdarkk 03-02-04, 04:42 PM	They made them, but not to order. I'm not going to have any item creation feats for a good while, other than scribe scroll, due to my PrC of choice not granting bonus item creation feats like additional Wizard levels would. I'll confirm it's a chain shirt, and look into getting it made Twilight.
Edymnion 03-02-04, 05:00 PM	Originally posted by finishedup Mithral shirts have no armor check penalty, and thus no attack penalty for non-proficient users. (if it was mithral chain-mail, then there would be a penalty). Thats the point, he isn't sure if it was a chain shirt or chainmail. If its chainmail, even mithril, he's going to be taking what, a -2?, to everything he does. Thats not good. If it IS a mithril shirt, wear it. 10% ASF is nothing. Thats still 90% that every one of your spells will go off perfectly. Far far FAR better than those stupid bracers of armor. I mean, really, those have got to be the WORST things you could ever get for a character. They are bleeding expensive, way too expensive. Compare the price of a +5 suit of Padded Armor, and a pair of +6 bracers of defense. Here, I'll do it for you. +5 Padded Armor: 25,000 gp +6 Bracers of Defense: 36,000 gp Is 5% ASF really worth 11,000 gp to you? Then look at a Mithril Shirt vs. Bracers of Armor. +4 Mithril Shirt (+8 to AC): ~17,000 gp +8 Bracers of Armor: 64,000 gp So, you're now effectively paying 47,000 gold's worth of character wealth to avoid 10% ASF. Bracers of Armor have got to be one of the all time biggest rip-offs in the entire book. Even for non-proficient users, a mithril shirt and a mithril buckler is an instant +5 AC for only 10% ASF, which goes up to +15 and another +10 of abilities. The bracers can't touch this.
Tony Vargas 03-02-04, 08:10 PM	Originally posted by wdarkk They made them, but not to order. And they only ever make chainmail? Talk about specialization of labor... ;)