Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 07-27-04, 02:55 AM	Ok ok ok. I know the guy is playing his alignment and all, but its not fun to play with this type of character. Literially his character has killed 6 PCs in his career (3 of them the same guy who happens to be his best friend in real life). He has stolen upwards of 200,000gp of items and equipment by either palming them or misidentifying them. He will center area-effect spells on players and excuses himself saying that it was for the good of the party His character is now very powerful. He can, with 1 spell, kill my character if I fail a save. Out of character I know this, but in character my character is his friend. Literially my character is the ONLY character that he trusts. Should I try to kill his character so that his character is no longer around and he'll possibly bring a new character that is more 'party focused'? Background: I'm LE but I've never been killed by him (yet). The rest of the party is Neutral.
Teron Gorefiend 07-27-04, 04:13 AM	Hypothetically, suppose you knew this character... in real life. Would you adventure with this man?! Would you regularly put yourself at this murderer's mercy?! Deliver a coup de grāce the next time he's asleep. If possible, use a scythe for bonus style points and a massive save DC. :devil:
Thorak 07-27-04, 11:32 AM	What you're describing isn't an Evil character. It's a psychotically insane character, who's an idiot to boot. Even psychotics know that, in a small group, you don't make yourself a target. Especially when that small group is your defense mechanism. The kinds of actions he's doing should, in any reasonable circumstances, leave him alone, friendless, and hunted. By both the party members and everyone else he's ever crossed. While your character might not have reason to kill him, being a nasty sort yourself and realizing that having a rabid beast that for some reason won't bite you can be handy, it's equally plausible that at any point your character would realize that it's only a matter of time before your beast turns on you. Put the beast out of your misery, coup de grace him in his sleep. You may be the only one who can prevent this insane nutjob from attracting undue attention to the group through random killings and thefts, since you're the only one he trusts. That's self-preservation. And then smack the player upside the head and tell him to grow up and play nice. If he wants to play a psychotic nutjob, tell him to pick up a CRPG.
Joe Khol 07-27-04, 12:18 PM	Reacting to this player IC is the worst thing you could possibly do. At best it will solve nothing, at worst it will create even more antagonism and conflict, IC and OOC. Anyway, what makes you think his next character would be any more 'party focused'? The next one could be even worse! No, this is an issue for your DM. You are not enjoying the game he is running so it is his job to try and do something about it. Talking to the problem player may encourage him to restrict his actions a little (he may not even realise he is spoiling the game for you). Of course the DM may well have intended (or be happy to allow) this style of campaign and so you'll either have to deal with it or leave. For what's it worth, I feel a DM with an 'evil' party has a responsibility to run it in such a way as to discourage the worst player-on-player attacks, thefts etc. if he wants to run anything like a 'normal' D&D game. It isn't how the game was intended and both DM and players have to be mature and sensible enough to take account of a lot of issue to make it work. If they don't, you get exactly the kind of problem you are trying to deal with now.
Thorak 07-27-04, 12:50 PM	Originally posted by Joe Khol For what's it worth, I feel a DM with an 'evil' party has a responsibility to run it in such a way as to discourage the worst player-on-player attacks, thefts etc. if he wants to run anything like a 'normal' D&D game. It isn't how the game was intended and both DM and players have to be mature and sensible enough to take account of a lot of issue to make it work. If they don't, you get exactly the kind of problem you are trying to deal with now. No more than they do with a 'good' party. Evil people don't steal from or kill friends. They steal from and kill enemies. If the party's your enemy, you're not a party. Characters that steal from or kill the other characters because they're Evil aren't playing an Evil alignment. They're playing Psychotic Stupid. Self-interest dictates that you are safer, and can get exponentially greater rewards, by cooperating. So only an insane idiot would be attacking his greatest source of protection and support just for kicks.
Enslaved DM 07-27-04, 01:55 PM	The dude is a menace, although your character seesm to be his friend. What would your character do? I would probably think that it is only a matter of time until he screws you over and think about knifing him, but that's just me. An evil character is not necessarily a problem for the party. He can be an asset. He isn't sounding like one.
Korlan_the_Crusher 07-27-04, 02:15 PM	I am currently playing in an evil campaign, where every PC is some type of evil (except chaotic evil). When we started the game we all voted for a basic house rule that you could not kill each other, that way you could do all the evil things you wanted just not kill other PC's.
Salla 07-27-04, 02:22 PM	And why, for the luvva Mike, hasn't your DM straightened this :censored:tard out and/or kicked this :censored:tard out?
danielinthewolvesden 07-27-04, 03:15 PM	Time to say the following- "D&D is a game. It is supposed to be fun for all the players. I don't have fun with this abusive player in the game. Either have him stop (and start a new PC) or I'll need to find another game". This seems to be an OOC porblem, so handle it OOC. But yes, the rest of the posters here are right- "evil" PC's still cooperate with the party. He isn't playing "evil' he's playing "sociopath".
Cymraegmorgan 07-27-04, 03:34 PM	ONce again I must say Ditto to Salla's opinion. If the DM won't handle what must be a pain for other players, do as Teron suggests: coup de grace!!! He has killed PCs, he has it coming and has no grounds to whine.
Harmor 07-27-04, 05:41 PM	Here's an update. I was cursed by a magical item with a 8 Strength and 9 Constitution... He left me in Underdark to fend for myself. 2 days later he sends me a Sending saying that he escaped Underdark by entering the Etherial Plane then plane traveling to a hovel some 200 miles away from Waterdeep. Two more days I'm in Underdark by myself and I find my way out, but not before I loose all but 3 of my items (2 rings and a pair of boots) - total value lost probably around 80,000gp. Now that he didn't even try to lay a finger to help me and I'm going to kill him the next time I get a chance. Guess you guys were right. Hmm...I have an 18 strength and am a level 1 rogue with a Sythe thats: 8d4+24+1d6 sneak attack (Min: 33, Average: 41.5, Max: 62). Make that Fort save!!! Also I going to have crafted a Coin of Silence that way I don't have to make a Move Silently roll in my Full-plate to sneak up to him when he sleeps.
FreeTheSlaves 07-27-04, 05:49 PM	Don't play D&D with this guy until he reforms and apologises. That probably won't happen of course so you should invite friends to play another campaign and simply don't invite him; tell him why if he asks. If it is too awkward, you might not want to invite his close friend (current dm). If you don't like confrontations you can say you want to practice dming with a small group and use that as a rationale to only invite the best players. Maybe on another day so as the original group can keep going theoretically. I say in theory because a fair and friendly session is easily going to become preferred and players will make excuses not to attend crap sessions.
Harmor 07-27-04, 06:01 PM	Well I havne't killed him yet, but we are all playing a new Dragonlance campaign where he's DM. So far only 2 PCs have been killed and we're all 4-5 level starting from 1st (not too shabby).
Kitt-su 07-27-04, 10:23 PM	You must stirke now while he is in his ilk. You shouldn't have to stand this kind of constant pking. I could understand if he was just injuring his party member to initiate them into the group (My evil assassin does that to ensure loyalty and give them a sense of how easily he could kill them. But after that hes pretty nice.), but still. Don't let him get out of hand again, strike him down.:smirk:
Blakk_Magemaster 07-27-04, 10:47 PM	I am honestly surprised at most of the posts on this thread. I think you'll are missing the key facter to this whole thing. Most of the PCs are EVIL, which probably means it's an evil campaign. Hence, the disregard for other players. As a DM, I've run and played in a lot of evil campaigns, heck most of them were evil. One thing you should be prepared for is the fact that the trust facter is slime to none. Just because s/he is a fellow player or that you're all in the same party doesn't mean that they are going to have your back. Generally, evil players are in it for themselves. No matter how lawful they might be, they are in it to save their own hide. When we were playing, granted, we didn't intentionally kill other players because it wouldn't have benefited our cause. If I could do with out him, then I wouldn't go to any lenths to save him or get him out of a jam. Why should I? I was evil, they knew the risks of playing with other EVIL players. It's the DM's job to make it non-profitable to the mage not to kill any more players, not the player. And it certiantly doesn't solve anything to kill him. That just makes more problems down the raod that shouldn't be there in the first place. I say you learn to deal with it and make sure you're on his good side. The campaign I'm in now is in fact an evil campaign. Three mages(2 wizards and a sorceror) and one fighter. Everyone is some type of neutral and I'm CE. They know if they leave themselves week and I see no need for them, they might be playing that character the next session. And I know that if I try something and I'm not fully prepared it could be the last session I play with this character. That's just some of what comes with being Evil.
Harmor 07-27-04, 10:54 PM	When we started the campaign we were all good or neutral. The mage and I turned evil based on several actions/events that occurred. All the while his character and my character are friends. That's all.
Blakk_Magemaster 07-27-04, 10:58 PM	Originally posted by Harmor When we started the campaign we were all good or neutral. The mage and I turned evil based on several actions/events that occurred. All the while his character and my character are friends. That's all. So what are you trying to say?
Vaelan 07-27-04, 11:52 PM	Your friend is not mature enough to play an evil character. Thus, he should not be allowed to play an evil character. Simple as that.
devinmdp 07-28-04, 02:40 PM	It's not that your friend isn't necessarily playing his alignment properly. It's that YOU should be reacting properly. This guy should have a bad rep as someone who kills his comrades. So why in the love of Pete would your next PC ever want to associate with him? Assuming the others in your group feel the same way...then you should simply inform the DM and the player that none of your new PCs will adventure with this guy's NE wizard. That leaves the DM with a choice. He can either reform the NE wizard to accommodate a party and play nice with his friends, or he can run two campaigns...one with you guys and a separate one with the NE wizard as a solo event. Devin