4 against 150? [Archive] - Wizards Community

4 against 150? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SmiloDan
05-23-04, 12:40 PM OK, our party decided to take on an orcish army. We consist of my elf druid 11 archer, his 8 HD wardog, a human fighter 8/exotic weapon master 2/mystic 1, a human fighter 2/rogue 4/wizard 4/spellsword 1, and a human fighter 1/wizard 5/warmage 4/spellsword 1.

The plan was to use the Feathers spell from MotW to fly in, firebomb them from the sky (using wildshape and Natural spell feat and flame strike and call lightnings galore), then land and wipe out any survivors. I summoned a huge fire elemental to distract the orcs. Anyways, the other players got bored and landed early and now I think we're in trouble. I've already use a couple Walls of Fire, Spike Stones, and Spike Growth to keep most of the orcs corralled, but the warmage used a cone of cold through one of my walls of fire, so there is a breach, and the orcs have started to come through. I think my elemental took care of all the clerics, and most of or all of the mages, but there are still A LOT of barbarian 4s and fighter 2s.

I don't think we have an adequate exit strategy. I don't think the warmage has any teleports memorized. I really hope she does, then we're OK.

My current plan is to wildshape into a really fast horse and carry the fighter and mage. Then the rogue can get some boots of striding and leaping and keep up. I hope.

Help! Any other ideas? There is nowhere to hide. We're about 60 miles from the nearest cover, in the middle of a huge plain of short grass with no hills.
Iron Chef Vastrox
05-23-04, 01:49 PM Highest level in the Orcish Army is 4? And you're all 10+?

They can't hit your AC if you have suitable equipment for your level. They can't stand up to your attacks. The elemental by itself could wipe them out.

Don't worry about it.
DarkMaster
05-23-04, 02:03 PM If they are 150 lvl 4s, only 5% of them will hit you each round (because of a nat 20). That means 7.5 of them will hit you 4 each round. That means each member in the party will get hit about two time per round. Yeah, that'll be fun.
SmiloDan
05-23-04, 02:21 PM They have Str 18, 22 when raging, for a total attack bonus of +10, +12 when charging, +14 when charging and flanking, and maybe +15 if blessed or wielding masterwork great axes. My dog has an AC of 30, which is the highest in the party. The fighter has a breastplate +2 ish with medium fortification, so he's sitting pretty. The rest of us have ACs in the low 20s, I think.

I know I can get away, since I can wildshape into something fast and flying.

The Elemental is kicking a lot of butt. Got to love Combat Reflexes, 15 foot reach, and Dex 24!
ck2001wendt
05-23-04, 03:09 PM 1) How many are left? What is the composition of their force?
2) What are your mobility options? Are you surrounded? What spells do your casters have left? What items and equipment are you carrying?
3) Are you surrounded?

First, if the trapped characters die, it's hard to feel bad when they could have had an easy victory but chose to hot dog it. If this is your only combat for the day and you started off at full equipment and had a winning strategy (sounds like you did), you should be slaughtering these guys.

Second, it's hard to build viable tactics when we barely know what's going on. My initial suggestion is use your Fire Elemental to plug the breach in your Wall of Fire. If that separates you off from the rest of the army, you're in much better shape. Then, if there are no leader types left, concentrate your attacks on making an alley between the trapped characters and the outside.

Can't wait to see the XP when this encounter is over, though.
Edymnion
05-23-04, 10:00 PM Its entirely possible, given good tactics and strategic uses of available materials.

Campaign I'm playing in started with 4 lvl 1 PCs defeating a small army of 40 orcs that kept raiding a town. Granted, we dug strategic pit traps (we had several days to set up), and got every commoner in town that could use a bow or a sling up on the rooftops, but we won.
Lord Psynister
05-23-04, 10:12 PM I think if you stick to your original plan as much as possible, and take some of the advice offered above here, you shouldn't have too much trouble with them.

I've got a group of four PCs (two lv 2s and two lv1s) fighting against about 350 goblins....

Of course, they've also got eight lv5+ knights of the crown, a lv5 Evoker, and about 80 peasants with crossbows and random melee weapons with them, but they're doing pretty good so far.
Vanigo
05-23-04, 10:29 PM That should be a cakewalk. Remember, no more than 8 orcs can be in melee range with any character at once; there's simply no room for more. Another 16 can be close enough to hit with reach weapons. This is, of course, if your characters are all separate. They should be standing adjacent to each other to minimize this. You should be looking at 2-3 hits a round on the party. You can use summoning spells to reduce this further. Go for elementals with DR.
keith187
05-24-04, 09:04 AM How you worded it it looks like the other party members wanted to have a hard time. Why did they land? Why did the one blast a hole in your wall of fire? You had a perfect plan of atack that I can only assume the party agreed to use. It makes no sense at all to do what they did unless they a)want to have a hard time with this b)were asked by the dm for some plot reason but you were never told or c) they thought they won and went down to brag and now are getting there asses kicked.
Only worry about yourself. If they were flying then I can only assume it was the spell so if they want to get away they can just fly up again and get away. If they want healing make them come to you. There is no reason why you should risk your neck to heal them after they ruined the perfect plan of attack.
SmiloDan
05-24-04, 02:32 PM I had used Feathers on my allies. It turns 1 ally per level into a bird. They can turn back to themselves whenever they want; this ends the spell.

I'm 11th level, so I can do it to 11 people, including myself. I used it on 5 creatures: Me, my dog, the warmage (DMPC), the fighter, and the rogue. It lasts 1 hour per caster level or until you change back. Would I be able to use the other 6 "charges" of the spell on my friends again?

I am kind of suspicious that the DMPC (who is a pyromaniac evoker wizardess) cast Cone of Cold at the Wall of Fire....

I spoke with the DM yesterday, and his DMPC does not have Teleport prepared. Hopefully my friends will do the better part of valor thing and let me rain death from above.

I don't know what spells the warmage and rogue have prepared, but I still have a couple flame strikes, a Greater Dispel Magic (gonna make it a Huge Earth Elemental or maybe another fire one), and I think 2 or 3 Call Lightnings (and a Lesser Rod of Empower Spell), plus some Entangles and Produce Flames.

Worse comes to worst, I'll just reincarnate them.
ck2001wendt
05-24-04, 03:03 PM 1) You cannot use Feathers again on your group. The spell's duration is 1 hour/level, which means they'll stay birds for 11 hours, but you don't have 11 hours where you can change 11 creatures into birds. It's a one-shot deal on the transformations.

2) The DMPC was being dumb or malicious. Ignore her attemps to kill the whole party. You're on the right track with summoning more elementals. Take the one you have and make him work his way toward the breach in the wall. If he's taking too long, summon another right in the breach (or the nearest space that can support his size) and plug the gap.

3) Now that you've taken care of all the opposing spellcasters, don't use your 1-target spells (flame strike) unless your party is in real trouble or there's an obvious leader. You don't know what your DM will throw at you the rest of the day, so be careful.

You should be fine.
SmiloDan
05-24-04, 03:47 PM Yeah, the plan is to cast Adreneline Surge (which I forgot to cast before I summoned Hot Stuff), then summon another huge fire elemental, a couple Arrowhawks, and then Call some Empowered Lightning.

I didn't think I could use the same Feathers spell again, but I figured I would try it. What the heck?

I'm sending my animal companion down to defend my friends too. His AC is 30, so he's pretty safe.
ck2001wendt
05-25-04, 05:46 PM Well, tell us how it goes. Sounds like you'll be fine.
SmiloDan
05-25-04, 06:06 PM Yeah. I'll be fine. I'm still in "eagle-mode." Flying in front of the sun, so the orcs can't see me. Actually, I don't think they even have missile weapons. Here's hoping!

My friends, on the other hand...

Will soon be kobolds, hobgoblins, and dwarves. If I have to reincarnate them.

I think the next step is to cast Adreneline Surge, then Summon another Huge Fire Elemental, and then maybe land, get in elf form, use my rod of lesser Empower Spell and cast a couple Call Lightnings, then wildshape into a bird again, and start blasting from the sky.

Unless you can use a rod of metamagic while it is melded into your form...?
ck2001wendt
05-26-04, 11:23 AM Unfortunately, I do not believe you can. I think there's a feat out there that might let you do it, but I don't play druids. I've also heard whispers of a magical chain that goes with an amulet and prevents the amulet from being molded into the form.
Funes the Memorious
05-26-04, 01:17 PM Yes we landed. We were birds. We dont have natural spell, we couldn't do anything else. Except keep flying and land later. Which just would have delayed it a few rounds.

And the rogue just landed. He didn't turn back to human form until after the dmpc warwizard did. Stupid little git. (The character, I mean. The dm isn't stupid, he has a subtle sadism to his spell selection).

I was just planning on mopping up any orcs who tried to run away. I ceratainly didn't plan on blasting a hole in the wall of fire. No sirree bobster.

But yeah, we'll be fine. The trickster still has some tricks left. Ha Ha!
SmiloDan
05-26-04, 01:34 PM The 3.5 rules on polymorph are a little less strict on items. Anything an animal's body could conceivably handle can stay "un-polymorphed." So my druid in Dire Lion form can wear a Monk's Belt and Periapt of Wisdom. I don't think I can wear a belt in eagle form, but I should be able to keep the Periapt.

Heck, my animal companion wardog wears an amulet!
SmiloDan
05-26-04, 01:35 PM Hey Funes!

Your name changes a lot....

Anyways, do you have an exit strategy? Mine is flying away.
Beware of Kobold
05-26-04, 01:58 PM wtf kind of insane army is this? how come there are no ordinary warriors? an army of all fighters and barbarians (especially level 4 ones) would be an extremely elite army. If this was an average army of monsters it would be some thing like this

30 percent level 1-2 commoner conscripts
50 percent level 1-3 warriors
15 percent level 1-4 PC classes
5 percent mid-high level sergeants, commanders etc. (these could be warriors or PC classes)
and maybe 1 leader of level 8-12 or so
Fasius
05-26-04, 02:24 PM Hey, that wardog..that's a riding dog trained for war? Or something completely different?
SmiloDan
05-26-04, 02:34 PM Maybe it is an elite squad or 10? We don't know. We just saw part of the orcish army on the plains when travelling over them to rescue someone else, rescued them, then turned around to take out the evil army.

It's one of those Save the World campaigns, where the forces of darkness are gathering to destroy all that is good. So whenever we encounter vast hordes of evil, we try to take them out because if the badguys win, the world will be destroyed. And it's the only world we have. And all my stuff is in it.

[edit]

Yup Fasius, it's a riding dog that has been trained for war. He's pretty sweet!
Votan
05-26-04, 04:23 PM Originally posted by SmiloDan
I am kind of suspicious that the DMPC (who is a pyromaniac evoker wizardess) cast Cone of Cold at the Wall of Fire....

Perhaps the DM was trying to introduce drama because the encounter was going way too easily?

In any case, the Druid should be able to finish them all by himself. Just have the rest of the party retreat while you focus on the attacks. The Orcs will focus on the main threat and that should work well. The fighter is strong enough to survive an overrun. The rogue can run.

If the DMPC dies because of her mistake . . .

[bias note: I HATE DMPCs and have promised to never use one -- powerful NPCs yes, people fighting with the party yes, DMPC never]
Funes the Memorious
05-26-04, 04:26 PM I'm pretty sure it is an elite vanguard team, we saw both this squad and another that was bringing the siege equipment... both had 100+ orcs... wargs too.

The full army supposedly a 10000+ orcs. And then there's the drow... and the giants... and the lizardfolk... and oh, yeah, the undead. Oh, and there are these demon gods, too...

And no, I don't have an exit plan... I also thought we were going to teleport away if it got too thick. Definite DM sabotage ;)
SmiloDan
05-26-04, 04:40 PM I'm not too worried about the 10,000 orcs because the fighter has an orcbane weapon and Great Cleave.
Red_Decker
05-27-04, 04:06 AM Something similar heppening in the current campaign I'm playing in.

Three of us [psionics] A half-giant fighter and an Elan Soulknife and a Lizardfolk child against 50 pirates Level 1, the two others of our party just got within eye sight of us and the battle just started. We've already dropped five of 'em.

My tactic stand next to the half-giant swingin' his great sword and pick off the ones that try to flank.

http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
ck2001wendt
05-27-04, 09:07 AM Ironically, the party I'm DMing is about to come up against a very similar situation. There's 7 of them (6+1 cohort), and they've managed to sneak into the basement of the castle to get to the evil cult's artifact. Unfortunately, they weren't quiet enough to avoid alerting the castle.

They're average level 7 (6-8), and there's about 180 cultists (and one Dragon) on the way. Average Cultist level: 4-5. And they have no battlefield control spells capable of buying time (except Wall of Sand). Should be interesting.

TPK or 10,000 XP. There's no inbetween on this one. It will make a great final session.
SmiloDan
05-28-04, 12:46 PM Hey, we finished the fight last night. The DM realized that we would probably be victorious, so we just kind of glossed over all the rules stuff, explained what strategies we would use, and it was decided that we would be victorious. So that saved a lot of real-life time and tedium. Also, the guy who plays the Great Cleaving Orcbane khopesh wielder was out of town, so it would be kind of pointless to have him NPCed as an orc-culler.

We had another similar situation last night, where an army was on the outskirts of the main city. So the pyro and my druid teamed up and used walls of fire to control the battle field, snuck into the enemy camp invisible, buffed up the fighter big time, then had him fight the BBEG (ogre blackguard with artifacty-flail). My wardog actually killed the BBEG with no damage.

So we went from 11th to 12th last night with little or no casualties. We did get some really helpful information from some NPCs, stating that the BBEG was immune to spells and summoned creature's attacks. So we just Enlarged, Barkskinned, Bear's Enduranced, Bull's Strengthed, Cat's Graced, and Regenerated Moderate Wounds the fighter. And done.
Korgan26
05-29-04, 03:43 AM Hmmmm, if I was your DM I would have used the dog pile method and you guys would have lost, instead of the conga line of death method that was aparently used. (where the baddies line up and happily march to their deaths. generally used in a doorway)

Z
Red_Decker
05-29-04, 09:30 AM Originally posted by Korgan26
Hmmmm, if I was your DM I would have used the dog pile method and you guys would have lost, instead of the conga line of death method that was aparently used. (where the baddies line up and happily march to their deaths. generally used in a doorway)

Z

Sometimes that's the best available tactic.

I mean whats a better idea volley arrows through a door and hope your enemy sticks their head out or rush in and hope to take your enemy by sheer number.

Orcs aren't patient enough to use the arrow method so they favor the rush in and hope.

In the senario that I presented which unfortunatly I have not yet had the pleasure of playing out yet if our characters need to get out of there we have a place we can run to with cover fire. A bunch of pirates equal little or no armor.

http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
BW0222
05-30-04, 01:32 PM SmiloDan,

150 creatures is a serious problem. Despite what others may have said in response -- even 10th-level PCs can be quickly dropped via swarm tactics. Unless you DM is really unimaginative, the bad guys aren't going to line up and let you take them in a line. No 10th-level character is going to survive eight grapple or trip attempts per round. If the only have 10 flasks of oil in the entire camp at least one PC is in serious trouble.

I'd pull back and come back when you have a better plan of attack -- or one everyone is willing to follow.

As for escape, remember that you can summon a multiple creatures in a single round. Blow a 5th-level spell and you can summon 2-5 dire wolves or hyprogriffs. Use some to get the party out of Dodge and the rest to block. Over distance, just delay them by moving, summoning, and moving again. Large numbers of creatures can't maintain a fast pace. Look for a place to hide if you can't outrun them.

When you go back, never consider 150 creatures trivial. They are going to have magic, leaders, etc., plus they now know you are out there and many of your abilities. Try separating them -- they need food and water eventually. Use cheap tricks like wildshaping, tossing an elemental at them, then fleeing until the next day. Drop 10-15 per attack and you should be good. Summon large numbers of animals + animal growth to keep your covered and then losts of AoO spells -- flame strike, wall of thorns, spike growth, etc. all work. And yes, always have an escape plan. Always assume that something bad can happen -- a dispell magic on your summoned creatures, a powerful NPC, someone gets poisoned, etc. -- and you may need to withdraw.
Korhal IV
05-30-04, 03:38 PM SmiloDan, don't underestimate Entangle in large battles. That thing has a HUGE radius! Especially since you got metagame confirmation that the orcs all had weak Reflex saves (though a Flame Strike or three would have proved that too), using Entangle to halve their movement (and give them serious ranged-weapon failures) would have done a great job of stopping up that gap, especially when paired with some summoned Dire Wolves (who also get to trip with every successful attack!).
SmiloDan
06-01-04, 10:56 AM The field of battle included several walls of fire, Spike Growth, and Spike Stones, so the orcs weren't exactly mobile. We just assumed one HUGE Fire Elemental would go on a rampage, and the other would block the gap in the wall of fire and defend the PCs (my druid speaks Ignan and Terran, so I can direct my fire and earth elementals).

Future encounters with armies of orcs should be tougher, but we're teleporting to our ship, away from the region where the orcs were dominant.
trapspringer
06-02-04, 02:38 PM I killed 74 kobolds with a level 7 bard. You can handle this NP. Fireballs and lightning bolts. Get your wizard in the middle of a circle. The party and various summoned creatures should surround him completely, all you have to do is fight defensively whil he destroys the most of the army. OYu can een stand still in the midle of the feild.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SmiloDan 05-23-04, 12:40 PM	OK, our party decided to take on an orcish army. We consist of my elf druid 11 archer, his 8 HD wardog, a human fighter 8/exotic weapon master 2/mystic 1, a human fighter 2/rogue 4/wizard 4/spellsword 1, and a human fighter 1/wizard 5/warmage 4/spellsword 1. The plan was to use the Feathers spell from MotW to fly in, firebomb them from the sky (using wildshape and Natural spell feat and flame strike and call lightnings galore), then land and wipe out any survivors. I summoned a huge fire elemental to distract the orcs. Anyways, the other players got bored and landed early and now I think we're in trouble. I've already use a couple Walls of Fire, Spike Stones, and Spike Growth to keep most of the orcs corralled, but the warmage used a cone of cold through one of my walls of fire, so there is a breach, and the orcs have started to come through. I think my elemental took care of all the clerics, and most of or all of the mages, but there are still A LOT of barbarian 4s and fighter 2s. I don't think we have an adequate exit strategy. I don't think the warmage has any teleports memorized. I really hope she does, then we're OK. My current plan is to wildshape into a really fast horse and carry the fighter and mage. Then the rogue can get some boots of striding and leaping and keep up. I hope. Help! Any other ideas? There is nowhere to hide. We're about 60 miles from the nearest cover, in the middle of a huge plain of short grass with no hills.
Iron Chef Vastrox 05-23-04, 01:49 PM	Highest level in the Orcish Army is 4? And you're all 10+? They can't hit your AC if you have suitable equipment for your level. They can't stand up to your attacks. The elemental by itself could wipe them out. Don't worry about it.
DarkMaster 05-23-04, 02:03 PM	If they are 150 lvl 4s, only 5% of them will hit you each round (because of a nat 20). That means 7.5 of them will hit you 4 each round. That means each member in the party will get hit about two time per round. Yeah, that'll be fun.
SmiloDan 05-23-04, 02:21 PM	They have Str 18, 22 when raging, for a total attack bonus of +10, +12 when charging, +14 when charging and flanking, and maybe +15 if blessed or wielding masterwork great axes. My dog has an AC of 30, which is the highest in the party. The fighter has a breastplate +2 ish with medium fortification, so he's sitting pretty. The rest of us have ACs in the low 20s, I think. I know I can get away, since I can wildshape into something fast and flying. The Elemental is kicking a lot of butt. Got to love Combat Reflexes, 15 foot reach, and Dex 24!
ck2001wendt 05-23-04, 03:09 PM	1) How many are left? What is the composition of their force? 2) What are your mobility options? Are you surrounded? What spells do your casters have left? What items and equipment are you carrying? 3) Are you surrounded? First, if the trapped characters die, it's hard to feel bad when they could have had an easy victory but chose to hot dog it. If this is your only combat for the day and you started off at full equipment and had a winning strategy (sounds like you did), you should be slaughtering these guys. Second, it's hard to build viable tactics when we barely know what's going on. My initial suggestion is use your Fire Elemental to plug the breach in your Wall of Fire. If that separates you off from the rest of the army, you're in much better shape. Then, if there are no leader types left, concentrate your attacks on making an alley between the trapped characters and the outside. Can't wait to see the XP when this encounter is over, though.
Edymnion 05-23-04, 10:00 PM	Its entirely possible, given good tactics and strategic uses of available materials. Campaign I'm playing in started with 4 lvl 1 PCs defeating a small army of 40 orcs that kept raiding a town. Granted, we dug strategic pit traps (we had several days to set up), and got every commoner in town that could use a bow or a sling up on the rooftops, but we won.
Lord Psynister 05-23-04, 10:12 PM	I think if you stick to your original plan as much as possible, and take some of the advice offered above here, you shouldn't have too much trouble with them. I've got a group of four PCs (two lv 2s and two lv1s) fighting against about 350 goblins.... Of course, they've also got eight lv5+ knights of the crown, a lv5 Evoker, and about 80 peasants with crossbows and random melee weapons with them, but they're doing pretty good so far.
Vanigo 05-23-04, 10:29 PM	That should be a cakewalk. Remember, no more than 8 orcs can be in melee range with any character at once; there's simply no room for more. Another 16 can be close enough to hit with reach weapons. This is, of course, if your characters are all separate. They should be standing adjacent to each other to minimize this. You should be looking at 2-3 hits a round on the party. You can use summoning spells to reduce this further. Go for elementals with DR.
keith187 05-24-04, 09:04 AM	How you worded it it looks like the other party members wanted to have a hard time. Why did they land? Why did the one blast a hole in your wall of fire? You had a perfect plan of atack that I can only assume the party agreed to use. It makes no sense at all to do what they did unless they a)want to have a hard time with this b)were asked by the dm for some plot reason but you were never told or c) they thought they won and went down to brag and now are getting there asses kicked. Only worry about yourself. If they were flying then I can only assume it was the spell so if they want to get away they can just fly up again and get away. If they want healing make them come to you. There is no reason why you should risk your neck to heal them after they ruined the perfect plan of attack.
SmiloDan 05-24-04, 02:32 PM	I had used Feathers on my allies. It turns 1 ally per level into a bird. They can turn back to themselves whenever they want; this ends the spell. I'm 11th level, so I can do it to 11 people, including myself. I used it on 5 creatures: Me, my dog, the warmage (DMPC), the fighter, and the rogue. It lasts 1 hour per caster level or until you change back. Would I be able to use the other 6 "charges" of the spell on my friends again? I am kind of suspicious that the DMPC (who is a pyromaniac evoker wizardess) cast Cone of Cold at the Wall of Fire.... I spoke with the DM yesterday, and his DMPC does not have Teleport prepared. Hopefully my friends will do the better part of valor thing and let me rain death from above. I don't know what spells the warmage and rogue have prepared, but I still have a couple flame strikes, a Greater Dispel Magic (gonna make it a Huge Earth Elemental or maybe another fire one), and I think 2 or 3 Call Lightnings (and a Lesser Rod of Empower Spell), plus some Entangles and Produce Flames. Worse comes to worst, I'll just reincarnate them.
ck2001wendt 05-24-04, 03:03 PM	1) You cannot use Feathers again on your group. The spell's duration is 1 hour/level, which means they'll stay birds for 11 hours, but you don't have 11 hours where you can change 11 creatures into birds. It's a one-shot deal on the transformations. 2) The DMPC was being dumb or malicious. Ignore her attemps to kill the whole party. You're on the right track with summoning more elementals. Take the one you have and make him work his way toward the breach in the wall. If he's taking too long, summon another right in the breach (or the nearest space that can support his size) and plug the gap. 3) Now that you've taken care of all the opposing spellcasters, don't use your 1-target spells (flame strike) unless your party is in real trouble or there's an obvious leader. You don't know what your DM will throw at you the rest of the day, so be careful. You should be fine.
SmiloDan 05-24-04, 03:47 PM	Yeah, the plan is to cast Adreneline Surge (which I forgot to cast before I summoned Hot Stuff), then summon another huge fire elemental, a couple Arrowhawks, and then Call some Empowered Lightning. I didn't think I could use the same Feathers spell again, but I figured I would try it. What the heck? I'm sending my animal companion down to defend my friends too. His AC is 30, so he's pretty safe.
ck2001wendt 05-25-04, 05:46 PM	Well, tell us how it goes. Sounds like you'll be fine.
SmiloDan 05-25-04, 06:06 PM	Yeah. I'll be fine. I'm still in "eagle-mode." Flying in front of the sun, so the orcs can't see me. Actually, I don't think they even have missile weapons. Here's hoping! My friends, on the other hand... Will soon be kobolds, hobgoblins, and dwarves. If I have to reincarnate them. I think the next step is to cast Adreneline Surge, then Summon another Huge Fire Elemental, and then maybe land, get in elf form, use my rod of lesser Empower Spell and cast a couple Call Lightnings, then wildshape into a bird again, and start blasting from the sky. Unless you can use a rod of metamagic while it is melded into your form...?
ck2001wendt 05-26-04, 11:23 AM	Unfortunately, I do not believe you can. I think there's a feat out there that might let you do it, but I don't play druids. I've also heard whispers of a magical chain that goes with an amulet and prevents the amulet from being molded into the form.
Funes the Memorious 05-26-04, 01:17 PM	Yes we landed. We were birds. We dont have natural spell, we couldn't do anything else. Except keep flying and land later. Which just would have delayed it a few rounds. And the rogue just landed. He didn't turn back to human form until after the dmpc warwizard did. Stupid little git. (The character, I mean. The dm isn't stupid, he has a subtle sadism to his spell selection). I was just planning on mopping up any orcs who tried to run away. I ceratainly didn't plan on blasting a hole in the wall of fire. No sirree bobster. But yeah, we'll be fine. The trickster still has some tricks left. Ha Ha!
SmiloDan 05-26-04, 01:34 PM	The 3.5 rules on polymorph are a little less strict on items. Anything an animal's body could conceivably handle can stay "un-polymorphed." So my druid in Dire Lion form can wear a Monk's Belt and Periapt of Wisdom. I don't think I can wear a belt in eagle form, but I should be able to keep the Periapt. Heck, my animal companion wardog wears an amulet!
SmiloDan 05-26-04, 01:35 PM	Hey Funes! Your name changes a lot.... Anyways, do you have an exit strategy? Mine is flying away.
Beware of Kobold 05-26-04, 01:58 PM	wtf kind of insane army is this? how come there are no ordinary warriors? an army of all fighters and barbarians (especially level 4 ones) would be an extremely elite army. If this was an average army of monsters it would be some thing like this 30 percent level 1-2 commoner conscripts 50 percent level 1-3 warriors 15 percent level 1-4 PC classes 5 percent mid-high level sergeants, commanders etc. (these could be warriors or PC classes) and maybe 1 leader of level 8-12 or so
Fasius 05-26-04, 02:24 PM	Hey, that wardog..that's a riding dog trained for war? Or something completely different?
SmiloDan 05-26-04, 02:34 PM	Maybe it is an elite squad or 10? We don't know. We just saw part of the orcish army on the plains when travelling over them to rescue someone else, rescued them, then turned around to take out the evil army. It's one of those Save the World campaigns, where the forces of darkness are gathering to destroy all that is good. So whenever we encounter vast hordes of evil, we try to take them out because if the badguys win, the world will be destroyed. And it's the only world we have. And all my stuff is in it. [edit] Yup Fasius, it's a riding dog that has been trained for war. He's pretty sweet!
Votan 05-26-04, 04:23 PM	Originally posted by SmiloDan I am kind of suspicious that the DMPC (who is a pyromaniac evoker wizardess) cast Cone of Cold at the Wall of Fire.... Perhaps the DM was trying to introduce drama because the encounter was going way too easily? In any case, the Druid should be able to finish them all by himself. Just have the rest of the party retreat while you focus on the attacks. The Orcs will focus on the main threat and that should work well. The fighter is strong enough to survive an overrun. The rogue can run. If the DMPC dies because of her mistake . . . [bias note: I HATE DMPCs and have promised to never use one -- powerful NPCs yes, people fighting with the party yes, DMPC never]
Funes the Memorious 05-26-04, 04:26 PM	I'm pretty sure it is an elite vanguard team, we saw both this squad and another that was bringing the siege equipment... both had 100+ orcs... wargs too. The full army supposedly a 10000+ orcs. And then there's the drow... and the giants... and the lizardfolk... and oh, yeah, the undead. Oh, and there are these demon gods, too... And no, I don't have an exit plan... I also thought we were going to teleport away if it got too thick. Definite DM sabotage ;)
SmiloDan 05-26-04, 04:40 PM	I'm not too worried about the 10,000 orcs because the fighter has an orcbane weapon and Great Cleave.
Red_Decker 05-27-04, 04:06 AM	Something similar heppening in the current campaign I'm playing in. Three of us [psionics] A half-giant fighter and an Elan Soulknife and a Lizardfolk child against 50 pirates Level 1, the two others of our party just got within eye sight of us and the battle just started. We've already dropped five of 'em. My tactic stand next to the half-giant swingin' his great sword and pick off the ones that try to flank. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
ck2001wendt 05-27-04, 09:07 AM	Ironically, the party I'm DMing is about to come up against a very similar situation. There's 7 of them (6+1 cohort), and they've managed to sneak into the basement of the castle to get to the evil cult's artifact. Unfortunately, they weren't quiet enough to avoid alerting the castle. They're average level 7 (6-8), and there's about 180 cultists (and one Dragon) on the way. Average Cultist level: 4-5. And they have no battlefield control spells capable of buying time (except Wall of Sand). Should be interesting. TPK or 10,000 XP. There's no inbetween on this one. It will make a great final session.
SmiloDan 05-28-04, 12:46 PM	Hey, we finished the fight last night. The DM realized that we would probably be victorious, so we just kind of glossed over all the rules stuff, explained what strategies we would use, and it was decided that we would be victorious. So that saved a lot of real-life time and tedium. Also, the guy who plays the Great Cleaving Orcbane khopesh wielder was out of town, so it would be kind of pointless to have him NPCed as an orc-culler. We had another similar situation last night, where an army was on the outskirts of the main city. So the pyro and my druid teamed up and used walls of fire to control the battle field, snuck into the enemy camp invisible, buffed up the fighter big time, then had him fight the BBEG (ogre blackguard with artifacty-flail). My wardog actually killed the BBEG with no damage. So we went from 11th to 12th last night with little or no casualties. We did get some really helpful information from some NPCs, stating that the BBEG was immune to spells and summoned creature's attacks. So we just Enlarged, Barkskinned, Bear's Enduranced, Bull's Strengthed, Cat's Graced, and Regenerated Moderate Wounds the fighter. And done.
Korgan26 05-29-04, 03:43 AM	Hmmmm, if I was your DM I would have used the dog pile method and you guys would have lost, instead of the conga line of death method that was aparently used. (where the baddies line up and happily march to their deaths. generally used in a doorway) Z
Red_Decker 05-29-04, 09:30 AM	Originally posted by Korgan26 Hmmmm, if I was your DM I would have used the dog pile method and you guys would have lost, instead of the conga line of death method that was aparently used. (where the baddies line up and happily march to their deaths. generally used in a doorway) Z Sometimes that's the best available tactic. I mean whats a better idea volley arrows through a door and hope your enemy sticks their head out or rush in and hope to take your enemy by sheer number. Orcs aren't patient enough to use the arrow method so they favor the rush in and hope. In the senario that I presented which unfortunatly I have not yet had the pleasure of playing out yet if our characters need to get out of there we have a place we can run to with cover fire. A bunch of pirates equal little or no armor. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
BW0222 05-30-04, 01:32 PM	SmiloDan, 150 creatures is a serious problem. Despite what others may have said in response -- even 10th-level PCs can be quickly dropped via swarm tactics. Unless you DM is really unimaginative, the bad guys aren't going to line up and let you take them in a line. No 10th-level character is going to survive eight grapple or trip attempts per round. If the only have 10 flasks of oil in the entire camp at least one PC is in serious trouble. I'd pull back and come back when you have a better plan of attack -- or one everyone is willing to follow. As for escape, remember that you can summon a multiple creatures in a single round. Blow a 5th-level spell and you can summon 2-5 dire wolves or hyprogriffs. Use some to get the party out of Dodge and the rest to block. Over distance, just delay them by moving, summoning, and moving again. Large numbers of creatures can't maintain a fast pace. Look for a place to hide if you can't outrun them. When you go back, never consider 150 creatures trivial. They are going to have magic, leaders, etc., plus they now know you are out there and many of your abilities. Try separating them -- they need food and water eventually. Use cheap tricks like wildshaping, tossing an elemental at them, then fleeing until the next day. Drop 10-15 per attack and you should be good. Summon large numbers of animals + animal growth to keep your covered and then losts of AoO spells -- flame strike, wall of thorns, spike growth, etc. all work. And yes, always have an escape plan. Always assume that something bad can happen -- a dispell magic on your summoned creatures, a powerful NPC, someone gets poisoned, etc. -- and you may need to withdraw.
Korhal IV 05-30-04, 03:38 PM	SmiloDan, don't underestimate Entangle in large battles. That thing has a HUGE radius! Especially since you got metagame confirmation that the orcs all had weak Reflex saves (though a Flame Strike or three would have proved that too), using Entangle to halve their movement (and give them serious ranged-weapon failures) would have done a great job of stopping up that gap, especially when paired with some summoned Dire Wolves (who also get to trip with every successful attack!).
SmiloDan 06-01-04, 10:56 AM	The field of battle included several walls of fire, Spike Growth, and Spike Stones, so the orcs weren't exactly mobile. We just assumed one HUGE Fire Elemental would go on a rampage, and the other would block the gap in the wall of fire and defend the PCs (my druid speaks Ignan and Terran, so I can direct my fire and earth elementals). Future encounters with armies of orcs should be tougher, but we're teleporting to our ship, away from the region where the orcs were dominant.
trapspringer 06-02-04, 02:38 PM	I killed 74 kobolds with a level 7 bard. You can handle this NP. Fireballs and lightning bolts. Get your wizard in the middle of a circle. The party and various summoned creatures should surround him completely, all you have to do is fight defensively whil he destroys the most of the army. OYu can een stand still in the midle of the feild.