Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Brent 11-06-04, 08:04 PM	Alright, recently I rolled up a character usind the 4d6 drop the lowest method for stats. I decided to use a 5 in place of the 10 I rolled for fun. So how do I play that? Naive, exagerated, sorta like Harkle Harpell, or what?
Morwen 11-06-04, 08:07 PM	Basically, the character has a lot of bookly knowledge, but is very unaware of the world around him. Think university professor :)
Bort333 11-06-04, 08:31 PM	Albert Eintstien. Solve the problems of the universe, but get lost on the way home.
RiotGearEpsilon 11-06-04, 08:57 PM	The character is capable of solving almost any problem put to him. On the downside, if no one puts the problem to him, and shows him exactly what it is, and keeps him on task, he will never manage the awareness to notice it or the attention span to focus on it. Severely learning disabled, extremely bright character. And a 17 Int isn't Albert Einstein. From looking at the standard deviation of IQ and Albert's IQ, he's more like a 22 or something.
trapspringer 11-06-04, 09:44 PM	It actually tells you exactly what to do with a character like this under 'abilities' in the front of the PHB.
hiryuu 11-06-04, 10:16 PM	You know the definitions of lots of big words, but you can't use them in a sentence.
The_Fan 11-06-04, 10:25 PM	That'd be more low charisma. 5 in any stat I consider to be a serious disability. Autism is probably a good model. Someone like this can probably expound at length on any given topic, find the one book he's looking for in a stack of completely disorganized books, etc. However, people would probably have to remind him to change his clothes, eat a real meal, etc. He probably gets surprised a lot, loses track of time while reading, and doesn't manage his finances well at all. Just some examples.
Shard of Suzail 11-06-04, 11:18 PM	I`d say 17 was pretty clever indeed. Yup, Morwen summarises it well. Wisdom is the common sense, patience and awareness stat. With a will save that low he`d also be easily fooled and may take people literally when they are joking or being sarcastic.
danielinthewolvesden 11-07-04, 01:45 AM	I don't think anyone who can play D&D and post here can RP properly either INT or WIS under 8. Don't do it.
General Dorsey 11-07-04, 02:13 AM	I think Data from Star Trek would be a good example. He is incredibly smart, but doesn't seem to get some things. For example, "a watched pot never boils." He watched it several times to test the saying and continuously say it boil in a few minutes. He didn't understand that the point isn't that the pot doesn't boil, but that time seems relative (he got a glimpse of that at the end of his test). I do have to agree that roleplaying anything less than 7 or 8 is a real challenge. Good luck.
delroland 11-07-04, 02:35 AM	Be the comic relief. Open every door, especially if the party is arguing over what to do next. Press every button. Be spontaneous, and get bored easily. That's what I do. Also, never stop to consider the repercussions (sp?) of your actions; once you decide to take action, do it, regardless of the objections of the party. Use excessive force and overkill. Cast new spells just to see what they do. Trust me, you'll have a blast, and you'll be the most popular character in the party. Coincidentally, this works wonders for game flow, as the party will either want to do something before you get it in your head to "do something stupid", or they will be chasing you all over the adventure.
The_Fan 11-07-04, 10:02 AM	I don't think anyone who can play D&D and post here can RP properly either INT or WIS under 8. Don't do it. Oh, I think I can...I do it every day. :P I've honestly statted myself out to Wis 5 due to a combination of ADD and high-functioning autism. I can't pass a wet paint sign without testing it, I one time left the house in my pajamas because I forgot to get dressed, and let's just say there are some places Shower To Shower doesn't belong. :eek: Thing is, such a character would have a lot of skills and would probably recognize his own shortcomings. Thus he'd put ranks in stuff like Survival, Spot, Listen, etc. to try to overcome his disability.
Wolf72 11-07-04, 11:22 AM	ahh! the front gate is under attack by ogre's ... the guards are trying to fight them off. (PC's arrive) 17 int, 5 wis PC: look 3 ogres right next to each other, I cast fireball ... DM: okay .... PC: (after damage dice rolled) ... so now where'd those guards that were fighting the ogre's go? I would play a 17 int/5 wis char as intelligent but impulsive ... shoot first, ask questions later.
ThatDarnCat 11-07-04, 09:28 PM	There is also the inabbility to understand the consequences of his actions. He understands thermodynamics, but don't understand how he manages to burn his hand on the cookpot every night. It doesn't LOOK hot... I like the Data analogy. The congitive abilities of multible Cray supercomputers, but the social skills of a wet noodle. In the show Data 'learns' many hard lessons from his crewmates, but never really learns the lessons. He only learns that a given action is apropriate or inapropriate under giver circumstances, not the social aspects that would prompt us to make the correct choice. You are in for a hard role to portray this type of individual, especially since a Wisdom that low would also make it hard to learn from past mistakes. Dustin Hoffman as Rainman is another good analogy. Can coulnt cards into a 36 deck shoe, but has problems when he's not wearing 'his' underwear from K-mart.
Count Arioch the 28th 11-07-04, 09:33 PM	Another way to play that is someone who is so supremely confident in his own intellect that he takes foolish risks to prove himself right. "No, I'm positive that the green treesnake is NOT poisonous, only the black ones are. Look, I'll prove it!"
Quenditar 11-07-04, 09:41 PM	I like what people have said so far. Remember, though, 17 Int can compensate for a low Wisdom with experience. To extend a previous example, after the first time he blows the guards up along with the orcs with a fireball, he'll probably remember that it's a bad idea. He might forget that in the heat of combat, but after he blows up his party, he should get the point. He can (and will) learn some common sense and social skills by rote memorization, and won't make catastrophic mistakes twice (although he may make a similar one in different circumstances).
Uber Goblin 11-08-04, 12:14 AM	The way I think of it is this: Intelligence is the ability to identify the type of step coming up, label its texture, rate the content of the concrete, and observe the style it was molded in. Wisdom is the ability to recognize that you need to lift your foot so you don't trip on that step coming up. :D I had a player who took some severe wisdom damage and had to play 2 real life months with the drain. I began to play him like Cronk from "Emperor’s New Grove." My favorite part was making everyone in the encampment be quite so a dwarf rouge could sleep an extra 4 hours (we were all elves) and then proceeding to pound my damaged metal boots back to use with a giant melted piece of iron and gold. The character broke down in tears... was a wonderful RP moment. But ya, Cronk from ENG makes a great low wisdom high intelligence character
danielinthewolvesden 11-08-04, 12:35 AM	So, far, nigh every suggestion has been to play an extremely disruptive character. This could well seriously annoy the other players. This seems to be a very bad idea.
Callista 11-08-04, 02:11 AM	True. I would suggest a bit of "calculated metagaming" here... Be disruptive/impulsive/absent-minded/whatever--but only when it doesn't endanger the party overmuch. If you're going to Fireball your comrades, do it when they're fighting goblins and still at full HP. If you're going to push that red button, be sure it's not the self-destruct switch. If you're going to misplace your spellbook, don't do it in the middle of the Abyss... wait till you're safely in town. And by the way... the "absent-minded professor" stereotype can be played so that it is not very disruptive at all; and though other players may have to babysit you to get you to eat at the proper times and put on your shoes before you go on the day's march, you can pull this off without killing or annoying anyone too much. Think Fizban...
Draco Strang 11-08-04, 02:28 AM	Alright, recently I rolled up a character usind the 4d6 drop the lowest method for stats. I decided to use a 5 in place of the 10 I rolled for fun. So how do I play that? Naive, exagerated, sorta like Harkle Harpell, or what? Well, I don't know his charisma score, but I'm willing to bet that this was the guy that could do calculus-based physics in the 5th grade, but got beat up a lot because he didn't know when to shut up, or butted in at the wrong time. Almost like a "Rain Man" sort of character.
Law S 11-08-04, 03:08 AM	So, far, nigh every suggestion has been to play an extremely disruptive character. This could well seriously annoy the other players. This seems to be a very bad idea. They can deal with it; it's roleplaying, and roleplaying the stats well. It's a hard pill to swallow, but if a player is going to be disallowed or forced to ignore the reality of some of his stat disabilities, then we might as well houserule them all away to a minimum of 10. Yes, a low stat is a handicap, and yes, it is disruptive. A low Str character drags the party down because he can barely drag his backpack, let alone carry it. A low Dex character is a constant nuisance to the cleric as he deftly jumps into the path of every fireball and stray arrow fired towards him. And the low Wis character doesn't look before he leaps, even if it's on the pressure plate that sends the boulder rolling through the party. If a group of players is so immature as to take issue with someone owning up and roleplaying the stats they're given fairly for better or worse, they're not worth playing with, simply stated. That being said, all the previous examples were fairly accurate. This is the kind of character that would go to bed with quantum physics calculations in his mind, wake up still intent on them, and arrive at work only to realize he was still in his sleepwear. It's just a matter of what's considered common sense, though the Intelligence really does make up for it. There are some things that are so terribly stupid that Intelligence will override the low Wisdom. Whereas a spellcaster would be smart enough not to send a fireball barreling through his friends because he knows what will happen to everyone in the way, he may not take into consideration the precious holy relic in the hands of the enemy that was the whole point of the long journey. The real key is to be smart, but not think things through too much; the character will be at his or her worst at extremes, either under pressure or when relaxed. Under pressure, they'll go with the first decent idea that comes to mind; relaxed, they'll be totally oblivious to everything but what's on their mind, be it putting on their clothes or not crossing in front of that wagon. So for the most part, while you could be disruptive, you'll most likely be self-destructive if no one watches out for you... While not so much a positive, it is a handicap, after all, and is fun to work with and around. Your fellow party members may even just tell you to sit in the back and not do anything unless they say so, using you when something seemingly impossible comes up so you can toss out a brilliant solution, but what is to you an obvious answer.
Callista 11-08-04, 09:09 AM	I don't know... not all groups of people are so good at role-playing as to be able to work around a PC with obvious handicaps. If your group is the hack-and-slash type, then don't drop your WIS down. They will just be annoyed because your character is getting between them and the XP. On the other hand, if your group likes role-play, and you're willing not to play it too dangerous, this could be a golden RP opportunity.
Sphyre 11-08-04, 09:12 AM	I don't think anyone who can play D&D and post here can RP properly either INT or WIS under 8. Don't do it. uh, what? wait why am i responding to you? OOOOH SHINEY!!!
The_Fan 11-08-04, 10:30 AM	Another way to play that is someone who is so supremely confident in his own intellect that he takes foolish risks to prove himself right. "No, I'm positive that the green treesnake is NOT poisonous, only the black ones are. Look, I'll prove it!" Or even better, what if he's RIGHT, but it decides to bite him anyway? Character: "OWOWOW!" Ranger: "You know, nonpoisonous snakes DO bite anyway...?" I'm reminded of the guy who proved ulcers were caused by bacteria. He did so by drinking an entire vial of the bacteria, and gaining an ulcer so bad it was life-threatening.
danielinthewolvesden 11-08-04, 10:57 AM	They can deal with it; it's roleplaying, and roleplaying the stats well. It's a hard pill to swallow, but if a player is going to be disallowed or forced to ignore the reality of some of his stat disabilities, then we might as well houserule them all away to a minimum of 10. If a group of players is so immature as to take issue with someone owning up and roleplaying the stats they're given fairly for better or worse, they're not worth playing with, simply stated. Here's the OP "Alright, recently I rolled up a character usind the 4d6 drop the lowest method for stats. I decided to use a 5 in place of the 10 I rolled for fun.". In other words, he rolled a 10, but made it a 5 "for fun". :rolleyes: So there is no "reality of his stat disabilities" nor "roleplaying the stats they're given fairly"- he assigned himself a low ability. And that may be fun- for him.
Law S 11-08-04, 01:47 PM	Here's the OP "Alright, recently I rolled up a character usind the 4d6 drop the lowest method for stats. I decided to use a 5 in place of the 10 I rolled for fun.". In other words, he rolled a 10, but made it a 5 "for fun". :rolleyes: But he also rolled the five, so it was just as fair and valid an option. Sometimes roleplayers are willing to forfeit the powergaming notion of always taking the optimal road when it helps to define a character more. Some of us will take a mechanical disadvantage without a balancing benefit just for the sake of fitting a character and further reflecting his or her role. Optimization is not the only path; in fact, some of us roleplayers have some of the "powergaming" competitive spirit, we just like being able to overcome things in spite of these challenges and limitations we put on ourselves. It can even be said that optimization for the sake of it is the "beginner" way out and reflects a technically inferior level of skill, needing every advantage to be able to function comfortably. Essentially, playing the game on "Easy" mode as opposed to "Normal" or even "Hard". So there is no "reality of his stat disabilities" nor "roleplaying the stats they're given fairly"- he assigned himself a low ability. And that may be fun- for him. Again, he rolled the stats fairly, he just chose a valid mechanical disadvantage for the sake of his character. It's not fun because it's disruptive, it's fun because of the psychological aspect of getting into the head of someone like that, and experiencing things through their perceptions. If I make a character like that who may need a little supervision or guidance from his fellow PCs to not risk inadvertantly killing everyone, and you decide your character just can't stand to be around them, then, admittedly, while my character may have helped lead to some disruption, he is not the one actually taking an active role in being so. That aside, Callista's point is also a very valid one; you have to be in a group that's willing to roleplay, or at least have another roleplayer who's willing to be your character's guide, if necessary.
Saiph 11-08-04, 06:26 PM	Unless the character also has a below average charisma, the actions they take shouldn't be to socially disruptive. I.e. they should do okay in casual conversations, not be horribly rude or somesuch. And this needs to be taken into acount with the actions of the character. Thinking high functioning autism is probably your best bet (true autism being a 3). Easily distracted in general (but can be very, very focused at times), highly inquisitive (and they feed off eachother). Hear a noise in the night? You may just get up and wander off to find it. Even if you're in a dangerous local. Would you tell the party? Nah, you're just off to check that noise out. Would you bring your stuff? No time, it might move away. Another way to play it, is just because you're smart, doesn't mean your right. Low wisdom means you're not really connected to reality, you don't have a grasp of the practical. I'm sure you've met a smart person who believes silly things (ufo nuts, conspiracy theorists etc). They are smart, however they don't have the wisdom to notice all possibilities. And they're also so smart, they've conviced themselves their right. So once you make up your mind (especially something you've thought about for a while) it'll be very hard to change it. Then again, you may end up with the opposite view, just as adamantly, the next day sometimes as well. You may also overlook a key but subtle factor. Sure that lever there probably opens the door and disarms the trap. However it's rusty, and is the door. So that'll make a lot of noise and attract attention. You'll probably not think of (or notice rather) that detail. So try and downplay the importance of secondary factors. Or over estimate their importance. You may strongly desire to quite the mechanisms, and spend quite some time doing so. Despite the fact that you haven't got that long. Social RPing: Forget (fail to notice) the other persons rank and station. Be late Dress innappropriately (i.e. forget to change out of your sleepware) Stick to your routine. Your smart, and may have figured out some of your common problems (though probably not most of them) and so you have a routine to adhere to to fix that. Things like putting exactly 10 gp, 5sp, 5cp in your pouch in the morning, after you dress in your typical outfit (no problem w/ D&D characters limited wardrobe), before you eat breakfast. Figure out a lot of little routines, like how you open doors and such. Disruptions to the routine are disconcerting. You may want to watch some episodes of "Monk" for ideas. He's really perceptive...but on a situational basis. He also doesn't realize the impact of most of his behavior.
Jarlaxle_The_Rogue 11-08-04, 06:49 PM	Hmmm excellent ideas so far. And for the record, I think I can RP a wisdom score of 5 just fine, I just wasn't sure how to do it. I think his charisma is around 12 so he's not rude or anything, and he's a wizard if I didn't already, mention that. Also, I'd like to note D&D is about having fun, now most people I know like to make people laugh and have fun when they do, playing a character with a crippled wisdom score is possibly one of the better ways to do this that i can think of. Also, most of my gaming group have sacrificed a more useful stat for a decent intelligence score. Edit: This is Brent, I forgot to log off my brothers account before posting.
ToiletGecko 11-08-04, 07:19 PM	Your plans are always brilliant! It's just those damn laws of physics that get in the way...
Quenditar 11-08-04, 11:27 PM	And this needs to be taken into acount with the actions of the character. Thinking high functioning autism is probably your best bet (true autism being a 3). Easily distracted in general (but can be very, very focused at times), highly inquisitive (and they feed off eachother). Hear a noise in the night? You may just get up and wander off to find it. Even if you're in a dangerous local. Would you tell the party? Nah, you're just off to check that noise out. Would you bring your stuff? No time, it might move away. It might be better to play it with severe Asperger's Syndrome - the major difference is that you have a full grasp of language. This doesn't mean you know when or how to use it - jokes and sarcasm fly right over your head, and you see nothing wrong or unusual with giving the barbarian an hourlong lecture on the differences in construction between bolt evocations and blast evocations. Another way to play it, is just because you're smart, doesn't mean your right. Low wisdom means you're not really connected to reality, you don't have a grasp of the practical. I'm sure you've met a smart person who believes silly things (ufo nuts, conspiracy theorists etc). They are smart, however they don't have the wisdom to notice all possibilities. And they're also so smart, they've conviced themselves their right. So once you make up your mind (especially something you've thought about for a while) it'll be very hard to change it. Then again, you may end up with the opposite view, just as adamantly, the next day sometimes as well. You may also overlook a key but subtle factor. Sure that lever there probably opens the door and disarms the trap. However it's rusty, and is the door. So that'll make a lot of noise and attract attention. You'll probably not think of (or notice rather) that detail. So try and downplay the importance of secondary factors. Or over estimate their importance. You may strongly desire to quite the mechanisms, and spend quite some time doing so. Despite the fact that you haven't got that long. Good suggestions, all of them. When I play chess, I note three possible responses to a move - but not the fourth, which my opponent does. A Wis 5 character is like that but more so. Social RPing: Forget (fail to notice) the other persons rank and station. Be late Dress innappropriately (i.e. forget to change out of your sleepware) Get tangled up in formalities and other formulaic expressions. Especially in foreign languages. Stick to your routine. Your smart, and may have figured out some of your common problems (though probably not most of them) and so you have a routine to adhere to to fix that. Things like putting exactly 10 gp, 5sp, 5cp in your pouch in the morning, after you dress in your typical outfit (no problem w/ D&D characters limited wardrobe), before you eat breakfast. Figure out a lot of little routines, like how you open doors and such. Disruptions to the routine are disconcerting. You may want to watch some episodes of "Monk" for ideas. He's really perceptive...but on a situational basis. He also doesn't realize the impact of most of his behavior. Another model, besides the autistic, might be the mad scientist. In some ways there's not that much of a difference. I can see a wizard like that coming up with, say, the idea of giving intelligence to owlbears, and forgetting that they just aren't docile no matter how intelligent they are.
Saiph 11-09-04, 10:52 AM	Ahh, aspergers syndrome, good idea. For those who don't know what that is, it's the "nerd syndrome" when you don't wish to be as polite. Think Steve Urkel. Quenditar did a good job explaining the general traits.
Airsucker 11-10-04, 01:22 PM	High int and low wis people are often engineers. I know a couple and this also reminds me of Car Talk. It was yet another wife of an engineer calling in with the bizaar behavior of her husband. He refused to use the windshield wipers on anything higher than intermitant, because they scratch the windshield. Never mind that it takes years and years to scratch a windshield so much that you can't see through it. By then you probably need a new car anyway. :crazy:
YakuzA 11-11-04, 02:17 AM	I have a very good example of High Int, Low Wis. One of my sisters friends is very, very smart. However she wondered why her car stopped going when she hadnt put any oil or water in it. Thats how i see high int, low wisdom. You can solve the problem/puzzle analytically, but you might not realise the solution is very simple. --AleX
Quenditar 11-11-04, 03:36 AM	I have a very good example of High Int, Low Wis. One of my sisters friends is very, very smart. However she wondered why her car stopped going when she hadnt put any oil or water in it. Thats how i see high int, low wisdom. You can solve the problem/puzzle analytically, but you might not realise the solution is very simple. --AleX Had she just forgotten to put any in? And then spent several minutes wondering why her car stopped before remembering she hadn't put any in for a very long time?