6 Players, no Divine Magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

6 Players, no Divine Magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Highter
10-12-04, 09:54 PM My group is starting a new adventure at level 10 on a world without any divine magic. Our DM told us that we would be the only divine beings there (with Divine Rank 0 and no outsider levels). Since we don't have any healing capabilities we will be using the Reserve Points variant from Unearthed Arcana.

Does anyone have a suggestion of a good party for a campaign like this?
zerotkatama
10-12-04, 09:57 PM See if you can slip a bard by your DM. He may rule no healing, with the Dragonlance Campaign setting as an example.
Highter
10-12-04, 09:59 PM I believe that when he said there would be no divine magic he was also trying to completely remove any heal spells, so no bardic healing here.
the dmg
10-12-04, 11:05 PM Well it all depends on what class you want to play, but for the basic party having a rogue is always good. You could also have a wizard and fighter in the party.

It really all depends on what type of campaign the DM is running.
Highter
10-12-04, 11:40 PM It really all depends on what type of campaign the DM is running.

Probably something like hordes of monsters trying to destroy nations, full scale wars and a face-off with a very powerfull enemy. Just your vanilla:
"You are powerful, you rule the place, try to keep it safe from the big baddies."
darczero
10-13-04, 12:56 AM You'll really appreciate any Rings of Regeneration or Potions of Healing you find.

There are several feats that allow faster healing. They're everywhere; just look for them.
Willybot
10-13-04, 01:24 AM Necromancers are also going to do well in a world like this. Spells like Vampiric Touch that drain HP from your enemies and helps you in terms of temporary HP. Depending on the starting level of your campaign (and since you actually have a DR, even at 0, it's likely high), you may also think about going as Undead. The Libris Mortis, an Undead sourcebook that recently came out will give a good idea on how to run a party of them. If you can go this route then a number of other Necromancy spells will be of use, such as Enervation and Energy Drain which gives temporary HP to Undead hit be the spell. Plus you then 'heal' using the Inflict spell tree which, again, is Necromancy rather than the Healing subschool of Conjuration (cure spells).

With this way, it would help to have most of your party versed in Use Magic Device so they can utilize scrolls of these spells. If you play an undead party, then one or two Wizards or Sorcerors can pick up the 'healing' slack with the above Necromancy spells.
Sphyre
10-13-04, 01:31 AM Use Magic Device & Wand of Cure Light wounds.
Willybot
10-13-04, 01:35 AM Use Magic Device & Wand of Cure Light wounds.

Problem is, there may not be any Healing subschool magic allowed in the world. If this is the case, where are you going to find a wand of Cure Lt.? Heck, if there are Cure spells allowed then a Bard will do.
Highter
10-13-04, 09:36 AM There will be no form of magic healing, no clierics, no druids, no bards, no wands, no potions.

Going with undead might be interesting though...
Faeirlyte
10-13-04, 09:45 AM Maybe someone can be convinced to multi-class and toss in a cleric?
Highter
10-13-04, 09:55 AM Woudln't be to useful, because, as I said, there will be no divine magic in this time.
Faeirlyte
10-13-04, 10:59 AM Yes, my mistake. I think half of us are reading it the wrong way. I guess I would stress a group with fighters, maybe rangers, definitely a rogue. Also someone who has a good range of languages could be helpful, since you never know what you may run into. I would pump it up with humans, dwarves and some nimble elves or half-elves. A halfling could be helpful in tight situations! :D
Highter
10-13-04, 11:50 AM So far we have decided on this:
1 Heavy Damage Melee Hero
1 Tank (maybe a dwarf with dwarven defender levels)
1 Bow specialized Ranger
1 Nuke Sorcerer
1 Do-it-all Wizard
1 Rogue

But I think we are lacking something here...
Coffee
10-13-04, 01:29 PM It's simple just play an Egoist psion. They can do virtually anything a cleric can and their powers come directly from the mind.
Aricandor
10-13-04, 02:07 PM It's simple just play an Egoist psion. They can do virtually anything a cleric can and their powers come directly from the mind.

As they do not have any psionic character in the mix, I assume psionics are banned. If not, an Egoist would be just fine.

The party you have looks pretty solid on paper though. Of course, you lack a cleric, but you already knew this. For rather obvious reasons :D
Just keep those d4/d6 characters out of the front line (except, perhaps, for a TWF rogue if he is that type) and make sure the Ranger takes Precise Shot and you should do just fine.
ksbsnowowl
10-13-04, 02:42 PM 1 Bow specialized RangerDoes the ban on divine magic also keep a ranger from gaining spells? If so, is the character being compensated for losing out on a significant class feature?

Or are a ranger's spell's being treated as arcane (basically he still gets spells, but no cure spells)?

The player of this character may want to take a look at my Archer Build Thread (linked in my sig).
Cold Napalm
10-13-04, 07:45 PM A few spell casters with vampiric touch + healing touch can work as a in case of emergency healer. Drain a baddie dry and heal your party. Healing touch is a spell from magic of faerun...3rd level spell that does the exact oposite of vampiric touch. Also simbuls syswhatever spells that lets you heal using spell levels as energy also works too. But that is a very high level spell. 3.0 incantrix at level 10 has a somewhat broken and inappropriate ability to heal using charges. Also spell channel wielders can heal as well.
Daelomiel
10-13-04, 09:05 PM If there is to be no healing magic, you will prpbably want to include characters with high hit points, good defences, and the healing skill [doubles natural healing]
Another option, if the restriction is on divine power...try a psion; Empathic transfer and body adjustment work well for healing hit points, and the other powers available make a fun varient on the "walking first aide kit".
You won't be able to turn undead, but it sounds like that wouldn'y be an option anyway.
Levism84
10-14-04, 03:01 AM Here are some things you might consider:

a) Research with your DM some "alternate" methods of healing, such as energedic herbs and the craft (alchemy) ability to use. It definately wont have the same effect as a cure spell, but you could definately find some detoxification herbs or specialized healing herbs that may restore maybe 1d4 or so hit points over a period of time.

b) Consider maybe having a living construct in the party, if your DM allows you to still use repair damage than the construct can be repaired. Look at the warforged in the eberron setting, or the warforged scout from the MMIII. If you consider this option, maybe one of the members of your party should consider artificer from the eberron book. That way you can also make tons of crazy fun magic stuff as well.

c) Some spells, such as polymorph, allow for some healing as a side effect. Try researching different arcane spells that might allow that effect.

d) If you can, try getting a monk in the party. Granted they are "divine" but they cannot cast spells. They also have that nifty healing ability, which can help a little, as does their kick butt tactics.

e) Races that have natural healing or regeneration (trolls come to mind), but there might be other playable races that would provide some help as well.

Just some thoughts.

~Rain~
zerotkatama
10-14-04, 03:35 AM Note: Make sure those casters in your party don't get fireball happy.
danielinthewolvesden
10-14-04, 04:11 AM Be prepared for the following:

1. Huge battle. Pc's are well down in HP. Rather than push on, they decide to rest overnite. This turns the game into "fight, sleep, fight, sleep" :rolleyes: :bored:

Or 2. Same as above, but while resting a random encounter happens. Delays the party even more. :bored:

3. When you're down (-1 HP) you will have a good cahnce of being First-aided so you stabilize. But you miss the rest of the battle and the rest of next day. Bring a good book. :bored:

4. In other words, be prepared to be :bored: :bored: :bored: .
Cold Napalm
10-14-04, 04:22 AM Or bring LOTS of healing salves. 1d8 non magical healing. Maybe ask the Dm to make a more potent version?

With reserve points, the resting isn't quite THAT bad.
Faeirlyte
10-14-04, 07:52 AM How about a troll Barbarian? :D
StMage
10-14-04, 03:27 PM I think anyone could learn the Brew Potion feat. If not (my memory is not perfect), then ask for a minor house rule change. Then you could brew minor, non-magical, herbal, healing potions.
Highter
10-15-04, 11:24 PM Well, Levism84's has some good sugestions and I will be trying them. danielinthewolvesden is also right, the game might end up going on a very slow pace. I will have to talk to my DM about this... anyway thanks for all the help guys.
burning_blood
10-16-04, 01:09 AM No healing, or very limited healing, means you need to avoid taking damage as much as possible, even more than usual (since you can't just "absorb" damage and expect the cleric to heal you). The best way to do that is to avoid fighting whenever possible.

Get a Bard, and have him (or her) completely maxed-out in diplomacy, bluff, sense motive, intimidate and gather information. Let him be the "face" of the party, and have him talk your way out of fights.

How well this works depends largely on how the campaign is run; if your group tends towards hack'n'slash then it won't be too effective, since most potential enemies will just attack you on sight without any preamble. In a less combat-oriented campaign, though, it can be really effective.
derfenrirwolv
10-16-04, 01:33 AM Someone suggested it but it bears repeating (no pun intended)

Get a transmuting sorcerer with polymorph and be prepared to spend a couple minutes a day confused about your original species. Its about your only option.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Highter 10-12-04, 09:54 PM	My group is starting a new adventure at level 10 on a world without any divine magic. Our DM told us that we would be the only divine beings there (with Divine Rank 0 and no outsider levels). Since we don't have any healing capabilities we will be using the Reserve Points variant from Unearthed Arcana. Does anyone have a suggestion of a good party for a campaign like this?
zerotkatama 10-12-04, 09:57 PM	See if you can slip a bard by your DM. He may rule no healing, with the Dragonlance Campaign setting as an example.
Highter 10-12-04, 09:59 PM	I believe that when he said there would be no divine magic he was also trying to completely remove any heal spells, so no bardic healing here.
the dmg 10-12-04, 11:05 PM	Well it all depends on what class you want to play, but for the basic party having a rogue is always good. You could also have a wizard and fighter in the party. It really all depends on what type of campaign the DM is running.
Highter 10-12-04, 11:40 PM	It really all depends on what type of campaign the DM is running. Probably something like hordes of monsters trying to destroy nations, full scale wars and a face-off with a very powerfull enemy. Just your vanilla: "You are powerful, you rule the place, try to keep it safe from the big baddies."
darczero 10-13-04, 12:56 AM	You'll really appreciate any Rings of Regeneration or Potions of Healing you find. There are several feats that allow faster healing. They're everywhere; just look for them.
Willybot 10-13-04, 01:24 AM	Necromancers are also going to do well in a world like this. Spells like Vampiric Touch that drain HP from your enemies and helps you in terms of temporary HP. Depending on the starting level of your campaign (and since you actually have a DR, even at 0, it's likely high), you may also think about going as Undead. The Libris Mortis, an Undead sourcebook that recently came out will give a good idea on how to run a party of them. If you can go this route then a number of other Necromancy spells will be of use, such as Enervation and Energy Drain which gives temporary HP to Undead hit be the spell. Plus you then 'heal' using the Inflict spell tree which, again, is Necromancy rather than the Healing subschool of Conjuration (cure spells). With this way, it would help to have most of your party versed in Use Magic Device so they can utilize scrolls of these spells. If you play an undead party, then one or two Wizards or Sorcerors can pick up the 'healing' slack with the above Necromancy spells.
Sphyre 10-13-04, 01:31 AM	Use Magic Device & Wand of Cure Light wounds.
Willybot 10-13-04, 01:35 AM	Use Magic Device & Wand of Cure Light wounds. Problem is, there may not be any Healing subschool magic allowed in the world. If this is the case, where are you going to find a wand of Cure Lt.? Heck, if there are Cure spells allowed then a Bard will do.
Highter 10-13-04, 09:36 AM	There will be no form of magic healing, no clierics, no druids, no bards, no wands, no potions. Going with undead might be interesting though...
Faeirlyte 10-13-04, 09:45 AM	Maybe someone can be convinced to multi-class and toss in a cleric?
Highter 10-13-04, 09:55 AM	Woudln't be to useful, because, as I said, there will be no divine magic in this time.
Faeirlyte 10-13-04, 10:59 AM	Yes, my mistake. I think half of us are reading it the wrong way. I guess I would stress a group with fighters, maybe rangers, definitely a rogue. Also someone who has a good range of languages could be helpful, since you never know what you may run into. I would pump it up with humans, dwarves and some nimble elves or half-elves. A halfling could be helpful in tight situations! :D
Highter 10-13-04, 11:50 AM	So far we have decided on this: 1 Heavy Damage Melee Hero 1 Tank (maybe a dwarf with dwarven defender levels) 1 Bow specialized Ranger 1 Nuke Sorcerer 1 Do-it-all Wizard 1 Rogue But I think we are lacking something here...
Coffee 10-13-04, 01:29 PM	It's simple just play an Egoist psion. They can do virtually anything a cleric can and their powers come directly from the mind.
Aricandor 10-13-04, 02:07 PM	It's simple just play an Egoist psion. They can do virtually anything a cleric can and their powers come directly from the mind. As they do not have any psionic character in the mix, I assume psionics are banned. If not, an Egoist would be just fine. The party you have looks pretty solid on paper though. Of course, you lack a cleric, but you already knew this. For rather obvious reasons :D Just keep those d4/d6 characters out of the front line (except, perhaps, for a TWF rogue if he is that type) and make sure the Ranger takes Precise Shot and you should do just fine.
ksbsnowowl 10-13-04, 02:42 PM	1 Bow specialized RangerDoes the ban on divine magic also keep a ranger from gaining spells? If so, is the character being compensated for losing out on a significant class feature? Or are a ranger's spell's being treated as arcane (basically he still gets spells, but no cure spells)? The player of this character may want to take a look at my Archer Build Thread (linked in my sig).
Cold Napalm 10-13-04, 07:45 PM	A few spell casters with vampiric touch + healing touch can work as a in case of emergency healer. Drain a baddie dry and heal your party. Healing touch is a spell from magic of faerun...3rd level spell that does the exact oposite of vampiric touch. Also simbuls syswhatever spells that lets you heal using spell levels as energy also works too. But that is a very high level spell. 3.0 incantrix at level 10 has a somewhat broken and inappropriate ability to heal using charges. Also spell channel wielders can heal as well.
Daelomiel 10-13-04, 09:05 PM	If there is to be no healing magic, you will prpbably want to include characters with high hit points, good defences, and the healing skill [doubles natural healing] Another option, if the restriction is on divine power...try a psion; Empathic transfer and body adjustment work well for healing hit points, and the other powers available make a fun varient on the "walking first aide kit". You won't be able to turn undead, but it sounds like that wouldn'y be an option anyway.
Levism84 10-14-04, 03:01 AM	Here are some things you might consider: a) Research with your DM some "alternate" methods of healing, such as energedic herbs and the craft (alchemy) ability to use. It definately wont have the same effect as a cure spell, but you could definately find some detoxification herbs or specialized healing herbs that may restore maybe 1d4 or so hit points over a period of time. b) Consider maybe having a living construct in the party, if your DM allows you to still use repair damage than the construct can be repaired. Look at the warforged in the eberron setting, or the warforged scout from the MMIII. If you consider this option, maybe one of the members of your party should consider artificer from the eberron book. That way you can also make tons of crazy fun magic stuff as well. c) Some spells, such as polymorph, allow for some healing as a side effect. Try researching different arcane spells that might allow that effect. d) If you can, try getting a monk in the party. Granted they are "divine" but they cannot cast spells. They also have that nifty healing ability, which can help a little, as does their kick butt tactics. e) Races that have natural healing or regeneration (trolls come to mind), but there might be other playable races that would provide some help as well. Just some thoughts. ~Rain~
zerotkatama 10-14-04, 03:35 AM	Note: Make sure those casters in your party don't get fireball happy.
danielinthewolvesden 10-14-04, 04:11 AM	Be prepared for the following: 1. Huge battle. Pc's are well down in HP. Rather than push on, they decide to rest overnite. This turns the game into "fight, sleep, fight, sleep" :rolleyes: :bored: Or 2. Same as above, but while resting a random encounter happens. Delays the party even more. :bored: 3. When you're down (-1 HP) you will have a good cahnce of being First-aided so you stabilize. But you miss the rest of the battle and the rest of next day. Bring a good book. :bored: 4. In other words, be prepared to be :bored: :bored: :bored: .
Cold Napalm 10-14-04, 04:22 AM	Or bring LOTS of healing salves. 1d8 non magical healing. Maybe ask the Dm to make a more potent version? With reserve points, the resting isn't quite THAT bad.
Faeirlyte 10-14-04, 07:52 AM	How about a troll Barbarian? :D
StMage 10-14-04, 03:27 PM	I think anyone could learn the Brew Potion feat. If not (my memory is not perfect), then ask for a minor house rule change. Then you could brew minor, non-magical, herbal, healing potions.
Highter 10-15-04, 11:24 PM	Well, Levism84's has some good sugestions and I will be trying them. danielinthewolvesden is also right, the game might end up going on a very slow pace. I will have to talk to my DM about this... anyway thanks for all the help guys.
burning_blood 10-16-04, 01:09 AM	No healing, or very limited healing, means you need to avoid taking damage as much as possible, even more than usual (since you can't just "absorb" damage and expect the cleric to heal you). The best way to do that is to avoid fighting whenever possible. Get a Bard, and have him (or her) completely maxed-out in diplomacy, bluff, sense motive, intimidate and gather information. Let him be the "face" of the party, and have him talk your way out of fights. How well this works depends largely on how the campaign is run; if your group tends towards hack'n'slash then it won't be too effective, since most potential enemies will just attack you on sight without any preamble. In a less combat-oriented campaign, though, it can be really effective.
derfenrirwolv 10-16-04, 01:33 AM	Someone suggested it but it bears repeating (no pun intended) Get a transmuting sorcerer with polymorph and be prepared to spend a couple minutes a day confused about your original species. Its about your only option.