Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Callista 04-27-05, 09:30 PM	On our newest adventure, from an e-mail from our DMs (multiple ones... big group): "We will be playing 20th level characters. Stats are rolled best 3 of 6 at least one needs to be 18. Items are whatever you can afford for the 760,000gp you get at 20th level. You are each entitled to a mount of CR 10 or less. Anything goes that can travel over land (my character is riding a large Sand Dragon). Mounts will have separate sheets for the sake of simplicity. We'll be in the desert so plan accordingly." FYI, this will be a short-term weekend thing... and these are going to be seriously overpowered characters! Naturally, the DMs are going to come up with equally overpowered monsters... Soo... any ideas? What should I do with the rope I have been given with which to hang myself? *pictures DM statting up a Tarrasque Swarm* *shudders*
DM Denubis 04-27-05, 09:36 PM	Take a look at the link in my signature for a few ideas. I am of course, referring to the UberERcharger. ^^ Maybe a nice Divine Metamagic (Persistant) abusing cleric? Or perhaps a gish? You've got the stats for everything. Ask the DM if he can roll your stats for you beforehand, and give them to me. Let me have my fun! Hee hee... I'm watering at the mouth already, thinking of what this character could accomplish. ^^
Draco Strang 04-27-05, 09:46 PM	I enjoy the odd uber-twink campaign, which looks like is what's coming your way. Enjoy yourself, and get back to gritty, real-world D&D the week after. Spend some of your money on Sovereign Glue. Lots of Sovereign Glue....that stuff is amazing.
Callista 04-27-05, 09:48 PM	'Kay, so here's my stats... 18, 17, 17, 17, 15, 12 Yeah. It's sick, isn't it? And that's my fourth try--the others didn't have an 18 in them. As to what I want to play... I like magic, whether arcane or divine; it's just so versatile! I much prefer things that don't have area of effect, though, since anyone who wins initiative on me in my group often charges right in, no matter how many times I tell them I can't fireball the enemy if they're standing next to it. So, yeah, single-target or specific-target spells... or maybe the Shape Spell feat. Hey, if I have access to both Arcane and Divine magic, that'd be even cooler... Ooh, and if I can play something that's smaller than Small-sized, that'll be a bonus too. I just like tiny things packed with power :)
DM Denubis 04-27-05, 09:52 PM	It's sick alright. You only have five stats! You're only five sixths of a person! Begone, you spectre! ^^ *Edit.* Oh, fine PUT your sixth stat in. ^^
Callista 04-27-05, 09:53 PM	Heh. Corrected now. *points to the 15* That's the one I didn't copy down... *edit* Hmm, if I get a tiny character then it can have a small sized mount... that opens up a lot of possibilities...
DM Denubis 04-27-05, 10:00 PM	Well, if you like both arcane and divine, I'm thinking a nice Bard 9/Ur-Priest 2/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 8. Ninth level spellcasting in both arcane and divine. If you're a melee kind of person, I suggest Persistant abuse. A straight level 20 cleric can dominate the melee field. Just make sure to take Divine Metamagic (Persistant) and Extraordinary Spell Aim (Complete Adventurer), spend a few feats on extra turning, and cast the following spells before wading into combat. Divine Power. (Persistant.) Divine Favor. (Persistant, but not with Divine Metamagic.) Righteous Might (Persistant.) Antimagic Field. (Use Extraordinary Spell Aim.) Magic Vestments. (Twice. One on your shield, one on your armor.) Greater Magic Weapon. (Extended.) Now crush. Crush everything that lives! ^^
Callista 04-27-05, 10:05 PM	Melee... nah, not with this crowd. Over half of them prefer melee fighters, barbarians, rogues (!), and rangers; and magic goes straight out the window.
epifreak 04-27-05, 10:18 PM	Well, if you want to be a cleric, blade wall can be nice. They've also got some decent nukes. Alternately, well, you can't really go wrong with a caster. I've always had a soft-spot for the cancer-mage out of the book of vile, though I don't know why.
DM Denubis 04-27-05, 10:19 PM	Melee... nah, not with this crowd. Over half of them prefer melee fighters, barbarians, rogues (!), and rangers; and magic goes straight out the window. Well, go with my first build, then. I've played it myself, and it's incredibly fun, I'll tell you.
Callista 04-27-05, 10:23 PM	Afraid not... *sigh* Evil characters are out--we've got a guy playing a paladin. Really should've expected it, considering the CR 10 mount! Wonder if I can get a similar effect without the ur-priest levels?
DM Denubis 04-27-05, 10:36 PM	Well, duh. ^^ Go for Apostle of Peace, in the Book of Exalted Deeds. Your paladin will love you, your save DCs will be insane, and you get to tell people to calm down by poking them. The only thing is... No offensive spells. Ever. But if you grab nonlethal substitution, subdual damage doesn't count.
Callista 04-27-05, 10:41 PM	Hmm.... this sounds intriguing. I'd have to borrow that book, though, as I don't own it (well, yet; it's actually in the mail from amazon.com right now)... what are the highlights? *edit* Aha! WotC put it up as part of their "sample" thingy for the BoED... It seems quite powerful, but very, very specialized. It looks like just about the ultimate buffer/healer class. I'm thinking, though, with the "Vow of Poverty" deal, that I might actually end up less powerful than the other ubermunchkins in this campaign: Generally, you can't pick magic items from a menu! With randomly generated ones, sure, VoP is more powerful if it's done right; but if you can just pick what you want, like we can... well. Unless I took Leadership (can VoP people do even that?) and had a cohort (dragon, for example) which could serve as a mount, I wouldn't be able to get a mount either. It really does seem intriguing to me, though. I never really considered that class before; but now? Hmm... With my group, with people going for damage, and Bards usually forced to be healers because no one likes clerics... Quite possible I'll try the class later on, even if I don't pick it now.
DM Denubis 04-27-05, 10:59 PM	.... Sorry, I'm not familiar with the term highlights. Seriously. Which is probably pretty sad. *Edit.* Oh. Yeah, it's a nice character. The thing is, and don't show this to your DM beforehand, but the Apostle of Peace CAN use some magical items. Namely, ones to protect himself. Yes, he gets the ability to violate his vow without violating it. ^^
Callista 04-27-05, 11:02 PM	Hehe... yeah, I saw that. Has it been errata'd? I'd think you either took VoP all the way, or not at all...
DM Denubis 04-27-05, 11:06 PM	Hasn't been changed. It's an amazing thing, really. You get to sit back, heal, do some charming, maybe a dominate person now and again... And be completely unhittable. Oh, and let's not forget that if anything DOES hit you, the weapon must make a fortitude save or snap, leaving you unharmed. ^^
Johnny Cache 04-27-05, 11:45 PM	You want to really go overboard? Add the Saint template to this. Tons of bonuses, spell-like abilities, resistances, and immunities - all for a +2 level adjustment. And for the cherry on top of this mass of brokenness, add the Winged template from Savage Species. For another +2 level adjustment, you'll get stat bonuses and flight with perfect maneuverability. Name your character "Angelica". The paladin in your group will be your fanatic little puppy dog. :D
DM Denubis 04-27-05, 11:50 PM	That's terrible. I love it. ^^ Although, to be honest, it ruins the character. Templates are a no-no for full casters.
Johnny Cache 04-28-05, 12:27 AM	Ah, so you were talking about a Cleric 10/AoP 10, then. Or were you thinking about AoP/Bard? The combination of pacifying touch with fascinate could get... interesting.... You're right, one does lose serious spellcasting oomph by trading levels for templates. Though I still think the Saint one, at least, is worth it. (In a game I've been in for awhile now, I'm angling my paladin towards Sainthood. She'll probably be the world's first holy troll. ;)) One last thought - how about a Psion? Either a seer or a telepath would go very well with AoP.
DM Denubis 04-28-05, 12:36 AM	Bard 7/AoP3/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 9. Although the Saint template is, for lack of a better word, amazing, it would ruin a build such as this. Well, not really ruin it, but weaken it needlessly.
EvilVegan 04-28-05, 12:57 AM	Just a side note, but you mentioned that you don't want area affect spells due to people wading in. . . Archmage or Heirophant are excellent for this purpose (mastery of shaping). I'd actually check the optimization boards, just pick one of those builds and tweak. There're some that can blow up the planet by level 20 or something. Anyway. . . I'd go as a permanently reduced gnome riding a two-headed, feral faerie dragon (or something equally retarded). Shadowcraft mage is fantastic for gnome wizard/sorcerers (wicked illusions!), or Divine Trickster for gnome clerics/bards (tell a joke that kills people). Both of those are in the Races of Stone book. But then again, I love gnomes. Though for true versatility I'd go Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 10 /Arch Mage 2/Contemplative 1 /Divine Oracle 1. Lots of spells, 4 domains; only 15th caster level in both though, which is lame, Or you could seriously F with their heads and play a 20th level human commoner. Just say that you were a great and powerful wizard who cast Mordy's Instant Disjunction on an artifact and lost your powers, but still have excellent equipment!
Johnny Cache 04-28-05, 01:28 AM	To totally mess with everyone's heads, you can't beat a kender Handler 20. :P "Ha! you fools will never defeat me, for I hold the Amulet of.... oh, :censored:!" --- Almost as bad, make her a Handler 14/Horizon Walker 6, then she can Dimension Door once every 1d4 rounds... ---Bard 7/AoP3/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 9.I see your point. With a four-way split on your levels already, there's nothing you can reasonably reduce to get the Saint template. Oh, well.
Callista 04-28-05, 01:59 AM	*laughs* Kender handler!! I can just picture it! Actually, I think one of my friends *is* a level 20 Kender handler. You'd never know it from her mild-mannered existence as a teacher of a 3-year-old preschool class... ...but then again... you probably would. :D Unfortunately, I'm rather short on books--well, books with PrCs and alternative classes in them, anyway. What I do have: Player's Handbook Dungeon Master's Guide Monster Manual I Monster Manual II Fiend Folio Arms & Equipment Guide Book of Vile Darkness Masters of the Wild Monsters of Faerun Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Unapproachable East Anything you can do with those?
Flushmaster 04-28-05, 03:03 AM	The only time I played a level 20 twinky campaign, I took a 20th level wizard. Specifically an evoker with a lot of metamagic feats, plus spell focus (evocation) and every spell penetration feat I could cram in there. Craft Wondrus Item = cheap boosts to intelligence. There are plenty of high powered evocation spells that have targets, and a well aimed twinned, heightened lightning bolt can lay down some hurt with zero or very little damage to your party. You can still use area effect spells if your entire party goes into melee, and as the only arcane spellcaster in several hack and slasher groups, I've learned a few tricks. Tip number one: put the blast where your allies aren't. I know this seems stupid advice, but remember that if there's anything resembling a "front line" you can detonate your fireballs behind that line. Tip number two: if you have to catch allies in the blast, catch the rogues and/or monks in it. They have improved evasion and (in an adventure like this one) insanely high reflex saves. With my lvl 20 evoker I routinely detonated 20d6, DC 37 delayed blast fireballs on the one half of the battle that the party's monk and rogue were occupying, and they never even got singed. Tip number three: even when area effect spells aren't your best choice, evokation still kicks ass. If you can get access to Complete Arcane, the orb and lesser orb spells are great; ranged touch attack rolls ignore armor and natural armor, so they're generally easier for you to hit with than arrows for a dedicated archer (lvl 20 fighter with point blank shot, precise shot, far shot, etc). The orb spells also go up to 15d6 in damage and are 4th level, so a level 20 wizard can freely apply metamagic feats to increase the damage (and has enough slots to prepare a few of every energy type). Even if you don't have access to Complete Arcane, some good targeted spells are polar ray, scorching ray, disintegrate, and the various power word spells, among others. Lightning bolts are area effect spells, but they effect long and narrow areas, so I'd suggest having one or two ready (preferably empowered, maximized, or heightened) in case you get a nice "alley" to cast down in between allies. And finally tip number four: I don't care what anybody says, meteor swarm is the coolest damn part of D&D. Tell your allies to get clear and target all four meteors onto the biggest and meanest looking enemy (preferably if he/she/it is surrounded by other enemies) and let fly with a fistful of D6s. If your allies didn't listen to you, then they can go whine to the cleric for healing spells and leave you alone. After all,only an idiot doesn't listen when a twentieth level wizard says "Get clear!"
Aeromus 04-28-05, 04:06 AM	Be and 8th level Ogre Mage Sorcerer. Str - 27 Dex - 17 Con - 23 Int - 19 Wis - 16 Cha - 24 Hp (average not true) 130 Ac (naked) 17 Base Attack is only +7 but the added +8 from strength helps a lot. That's Hawt.... Fly at will, regen 5, spell resistence 19, Invisibility at will... Hawtness...elite freaking Hawtness.
Worguron 04-28-05, 05:13 AM	And don't forget to take Improved Flight with the Ogre Mage so you can hover and change directions in mid-air at will. Having to move could spoil any full round casting/attacking.
Johnny Cache 04-28-05, 07:23 AM	Actually, I think one of my friends *is* a level 20 Kender handler. You'd never know it from her mild-mannered existence as a teacher of a 3-year-old preschool class...Hey, no fair! It's way too easy to RP a Kender whan you have all those examples to take(borrow) notes from. :P :D btw - Does she call her class a "Kendergarten"? :rimshot:
babysamurai 04-28-05, 07:57 AM	Hey, no fair! It's way too easy to RP a Kender whan you have all those examples to take(borrow) notes from. :P :D btw - Does she call her class a "Kendergarten"? :rimshot: Tell your DM to let you be 21st level while you're at it (a very fun level IMO), then you can sqeeze out a Fighter 12 (for the feats+BAB)/Rogue 4 (for uncanny dodge+some sneak attacks/Wizard 5 (for some decent supplemental spell casting).
cambric 04-28-05, 10:53 AM	The only time I played a level 20 twinky campaign, I took a 20th level wizard. Specifically an evoker with a lot of metamagic feats, plus spell focus (evocation) and every spell penetration feat I could cram in there. Craft Wondrus Item = cheap boosts to intelligence. There are plenty of high powered evocation spells that have targets, and a well aimed twinned, heightened lightning bolt can lay down some hurt with zero or very little damage to your party. You can still use area effect spells if your entire party goes into melee, and as the only arcane spellcaster in several hack and slasher groups, I've learned a few tricks. Tip number one: put the blast where your allies aren't. I know this seems stupid advice, but remember that if there's anything resembling a "front line" you can detonate your fireballs behind that line. Tip number two: if you have to catch allies in the blast, catch the rogues and/or monks in it. They have improved evasion and (in an adventure like this one) insanely high reflex saves. With my lvl 20 evoker I routinely detonated 20d6, DC 37 delayed blast fireballs on the one half of the battle that the party's monk and rogue were occupying, and they never even got singed. Tip number three: even when area effect spells aren't your best choice, evokation still kicks ass. If you can get access to Complete Arcane, the orb and lesser orb spells are great; ranged touch attack rolls ignore armor and natural armor, so they're generally easier for you to hit with than arrows for a dedicated archer (lvl 20 fighter with point blank shot, precise shot, far shot, etc). The orb spells also go up to 15d6 in damage and are 4th level, so a level 20 wizard can freely apply metamagic feats to increase the damage (and has enough slots to prepare a few of every energy type). Even if you don't have access to Complete Arcane, some good targeted spells are polar ray, scorching ray, disintegrate, and the various power word spells, among others. Lightning bolts are area effect spells, but they effect long and narrow areas, so I'd suggest having one or two ready (preferably empowered, maximized, or heightened) in case you get a nice "alley" to cast down in between allies. And finally tip number four: I don't care what anybody says, meteor swarm is the coolest damn part of D&D. Tell your allies to get clear and target all four meteors onto the biggest and meanest looking enemy (preferably if he/she/it is surrounded by other enemies) and let fly with a fistful of D6s. If your allies didn't listen to you, then they can go whine to the cleric for healing spells and leave you alone. After all,only an idiot doesn't listen when a twentieth level wizard says "Get clear!" Per Callista's DM:We'll be in the desert so plan accordingly My "guess" is that most, if not all, the creatures will have some form of fire resistance...so the fireballs, and such, "might" not be the best for this situation. Though, I do LOVE your stratagie here...I'm just wondering if it would work, in this situation. Cam
Murr-Quan Lord #2 04-28-05, 11:19 AM	Energy Substitution! From Complete Arcane, if I recall correctly. Feat lets you change the energy type of one of your attacks. Barring that, there's always Otiluke's Freezing Sphere and/or original spell research :) Max out your cold damage!
Drizzt 666 04-28-05, 11:39 AM	make a 20th level warlock! 9d6+2 negative levels eldritch blast at will, +tons of other sick invocations (i just love the retributive invisibility, greater invisibility that deals damage... just so fun).
Megrim_Lord 04-28-05, 09:32 PM	Be and 8th level Ogre Mage Sorcerer. Str - 27 Dex - 17 Con - 23 Int - 19 Wis - 16 Cha - 24 Hp (average not true) 130 Ac (naked) 17 Base Attack is only +7 but the added +8 from strength helps a lot. That's Hawt.... Fly at will, regen 5, spell resistence 19, Invisibility at will... Hawtness...elite freaking Hawtness. umm... no, that's just rather ineffective, no offense, but I could do all of that with a wizard, but better. If you really want to do something like that, just be a wizard, or at least a warlock, and get a regen ring. besides, a 20th level character could botch and still beat the SR, so it's useless, fly and invis get pwned by see invisibility & antimagic aura or better yet MDJ, followed by horrid wilting, and if that doesn't kill it just use power word: kill. back on subject, you can't go wrong with a straight spellcaster.
Carn Vandoril 04-29-05, 07:53 AM	How about a dragonpc with her CR10 son/ daughter??? :thinks:
mcnoo 04-29-05, 11:49 AM	20th level? That'll be wizard then with the old "Forcecage/ gate" combo against anything hitty, or against anything magic just cast antimagic field and let the fighters do the rest.