Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Odin_666 02-26-05, 05:49 PM	we are playing 3.0 and i have a Nec5/Red2 (Lawfull Neutral). in our party is a 8th lvl dwarfen barbarian which hates me for only being from thay. i never did something against the party! in the party are: 8th elfish rogue 8th human fighter these two have hired for 10gp per day: 8th dwarfen barbarian 7th dwarfen cleric (of the dwarfen travellers-god, (forgotten realms)) an me working for the party cause their customer sent me in to help them... when we first met all were angry but they soon calmed down. my char is used to be unwelcomed by most (like drizzt :D ) so he simply thought to sit it out... only the dwarfen barbarian did not calm down: after we killed something, he took the blood from the body and threw it in my face (i took my waterskin, and simply cleared it away), for that he would have suffered and died if we were in thay... in most battles he runs away, cause he either get caught by a fear effect or a mindflayer suggestes him, that it would best to flee... (looser, let high will saves rule the world :D ) in our last combat i cast fear on our foe and (standing right in front the foe) on him (lost his save) and both sit in the corner and cowering... After that he tried to attack me (for which he should have died), but the rest of the party caught him and calmed him down.... But I expect that it wasnt the last thing.... So I guess i have to prepare myself to kill him (i spent too much hours in this char than to simply let him die by a rassist dwarf) what do you think is the best tactic: for relevant feats i have powered everything on necro so that the dc for necro spells is 20+spell level and for other spells 14+s.l. My fourth level spells are fear and enervation (we hadn't downtime so i couldn't learn more...). i also have a staff of dominate person with still 5 charges available. i guess the best would be to cast fear (dc24 will) and hope that he fails (which is likely, i guess), then dominate him (dc19 will, with penaltys for him because of fear). maybe enervate him before, so that it is more likely for him to loose the dominate save? at my next level, i will take wrack (necro-like hold person from book of vile darkness, fort negs), perhaps then just coup de grace him? but what can i expect from the other players, he just works for them, no friendship (but neither with me)? maybe dominate and sent him as slave to thay :D
Odin_666 02-26-05, 05:56 PM	oh, and i tought in the next combat simply fireball him :D :D :D
SwollenOstrich 02-26-05, 06:58 PM	how did you get a + 10 to the spell DC at level 8??
Razoreface 02-26-05, 07:38 PM	+2 from focus, +1 from tattoo focus, playing in faerun there's a feat that gives you a +2 bonus to your stat for purposes of casting modifiers, and by 7th level a +2 stat item isn't out of the question, and even a +4 item might have been possible. If you started with an 18, that's a +9 from a +2 int item. If the barbarian is really a problem, you're a necromancer. Death is your gift. Bestow curse on Wisom, then Fear, and then dominate or enervations.
steenan 02-26-05, 07:46 PM	Have you thought about poisoning him in his sleep? Begin with something to damage his lowest mental score (to be sure he won't wake up) and then poison him to death with something damaging con. When he's dead, hit yourself with poisoned dart (this time something without ability damage, just unconsciousness) - nobody will suspect you, when you are hit too. :twisted:
Vatras 02-26-05, 10:04 PM	Enervate him first for the nice penalties, twice should do, for a nice -5 on average to saves, to hit, etc. (and there should be no problem hitting a barbarian with a touch attack), before you blow him away. Once dominated you can bind him hand and foot (which is not selfdestructive) so he is helpless and then coup de grace him. Wrack is one of the most powerful spells around, good effect, no mind-affecting or death descriptor, qualifies for Chain Spell too, but then its from BoVD :)
Odin_666 02-27-05, 05:08 AM	how did you get a + 10 to the spell DC at level 8?? int 19 (with necklace of int +2) = +4 tattoo focus = +1 red wizard spell power = +1 spell focus (necro) = +2 greater spell focus (necro) = +2 (in 3.0 +4 but does not stack with normal spell focus :rolleyes: ) (and i am just level 7, after ability int+1 at level 8 the dc goes to +11)
Odin_666 02-27-05, 05:24 AM	If the barbarian is really a problem, you're a necromancer. Death is your gift. Bestow curse on Wisom, then Fear, and then dominate or enervations. in 3.0 bestow curse is transmutation, so it has only a dc 18, compared to fear dc 24, and by the way: for both spells he gets a will dc with the difference that by fear he runs away from me and after bestow curse, he attacks me... Have you thought about poisoning him in his sleep? Begin with something to damage his lowest mental score (to be sure he won't wake up) and then poison him to death with something damaging con. When he's dead, hit yourself with poisoned dart (this time something without ability damage, just unconsciousness) - nobody will suspect you, when you are hit too. :twisted: good idea, but were are just in a dungeon so i can't get items to poison him... but if we are getting out of the dungeon and we both still live, this is something i should remember :D what do you thing, if in the next battle i activate the staff to dominate him and let him simply walk home to his clan after the fight is over (and after he had dropped all his gold and magic items :D )? this would not be deadly but then the rest of the party wouldn't kill me for this...
TinManFan 02-27-05, 10:16 AM	Well, as someone who plays way too many necros in way too many games, lemme help. 1st off, if you don't wanna **** the party off, I'd say the confrontation should happen all in the open. He'll talk like a jerk and attack you, and you'll be the offended party. 2nd, Enervation is just about the bestest thing ever. I'd suggest it when he's raging or asleep. If it's when he's raging, wait till the latter part of his rage, hit him and boom, the duration of his rage is down. Now if he's asleep, blast him. Just that simple. Do it often and from a distance. 3rd. Wierd but viable plan. Talk with the guy playing him. Set up some ground rules. Maybe he's doing the good RP thing and really like you in the real world. If so, talk to him, say that you don't want to have wasted your time on this guy, and ask him to keep the "out in the open" disrespect thing down a couple of notches. Also tell him that you do have oodles of nasty little tricks up your sleeve, so does he (never hurts to stroke an ego) and just ask him to keep a confrontation from actually happening. 4. When in doupt, create a whole bunch of shadows to attack him in is sleep. Hope this all helps.
Bonzai 02-27-05, 02:29 PM	Hehe, if you can hold off till you get 6th lvl spells, Ghoul Gauntlet is a personal favorite way to finish off a hated enemy. It slowly deals damage every round till they die and then become a ghoul indefinatly under your control. As a Red Wizard, this would be an ideal way to finish off an enemy, and in game terms, it allows the dwarf to play on as your thrall. Only problem is the fortitude saves, so enervation a few times would probably help.
Father Dale 02-27-05, 02:58 PM	Ghoul Guantlet has an awesome effect. Unfortunatley, its a touch spell. So unless the barbarian is safely held (I wouldn't consider Hold Person/Monster as safely holding him, although wrack would work.) getting in close enough to touch the barbarian could be deadly. A raging 13th lvl Barb has a real good chance of taking out a 13th lvl wizard in one round with his 3 attacks. Or he could just grapple you. Tips to fighting a barbarian with a mage. 1. Stay away from him. 2. Stay away from him. 3. Stay away from him. Fly or Levitate are good for this. So is Expeditious retreat. Cloud spells and web-type spells are good for keeping him away from you. Polymorph can give you some good maneuverability, flight, hitpoints, AC, etc, for letting you survive. Enervation is a great opener against any single opponenet, once you can safely do it. Spectral hand lets you target him with touch spells of 4th or lower form a good distance (Vampiric Touch being a great one for this, as well as bestow curse.) The Fear-Dominate route would likely be very effective, and is probably your best bet right now.
mcnoo 02-27-05, 03:15 PM	Depending on how horrendously twisted you are, you could do a somewhat unsubtle method of assasination in his sleep. Gently lay a light piece of cloth over the side of his head while he sleeps, perhaps a little soft leather if it's going spare, only a square three inces across or so. Gently touch the point of your dagger to the cloth over his temple, which stops the cold metal or the point waking him up. Then, forcibly apply pressure via the means of some masonry to the implement. In other words, smash the dagger into his brain with a rock. The cloth will then stop the blood spraying all over your pretty robes. In other words, it's a coup de grace with a dagger, BUT the DM will for sure give you extra credit for technique and the dagger should do a lot more than it's normal d4x2 damage. When you can't back your plans up with dice, use a spot of role play instead. How does the DM expect ANYONE to survive with half a foot of steel lodged in thier skull, especially if you twist it around for extra effect.
Odin_666 02-27-05, 05:26 PM	Hehe, if you can hold off till you get 6th lvl spells, Ghoul Gauntlet is a personal favorite way to finish off a hated enemy. It slowly deals damage every round till they die and then become a ghoul indefinatly under your control. As a Red Wizard, this would be an ideal way to finish off an enemy, and in game terms, it allows the dwarf to play on as your thrall. Only problem is the fortitude saves, so enervation a few times would probably help. from which book ist ghoul gauntlet?
Bonzai 02-28-05, 01:53 AM	Libris Mortis. Hehe, I really love this spell, as it allows a means of indefinate control for arcane casters, but it is also a way of turning your enemies into your your minions, something that any Necromancer should relish. I use the rules in LM for the ghoul template, so ghouls created lose one lvl, retain the rest of their class lvls, and gain a lvl of ghoul. As an arcane caster, gaining say, a rogue 9/ghoul 1 is well worth the 10 hd against your control undead limit. And as for the touch component. Enervation, fear, and perhaps your familiar can deliver it for you. Other means are open for you depending on your spell set. Sleep, paralisis, spectral hand, etc... that might imobalize him.
Bane 02-28-05, 02:32 PM	If you're playing 3.0, just cast haste, then pound him into the ground with Enervation.
Nedlum 02-28-05, 09:39 PM	3rd. Wierd but viable plan. Talk with the guy playing him. Set up some ground rules. Maybe he's doing the good RP thing and really like you in the real world. If so, talk to him, say that you don't want to have wasted your time on this guy, and ask him to keep the "out in the open" disrespect thing down a couple of notches. Also tell him that you do have oodles of nasty little tricks up your sleeve, so does he (never hurts to stroke an ego) and just ask him to keep a confrontation from actually happening. Seconded. Odds are he's just as attached to his charecter as you are to yours. And if I were to go by what I'd do, I bet he was banking on everyone else pulling you off him. He doesn't want to hurt you, he just wants a reason not to hurt you. So talk to him out of the game, see if you can together out of charecter come up with some brillaint feat of roleplaying that will fill your fellow players with warmth and awe.
Odin_666 03-01-05, 04:18 AM	Seconded. Odds are he's just as attached to his charecter as you are to yours. And if I were to go by what I'd do, I bet he was banking on everyone else pulling you off him. He doesn't want to hurt you, he just wants a reason not to hurt you. So talk to him out of the game, see if you can together out of charecter come up with some brillaint feat of roleplaying that will fill your fellow players with warmth and awe. oh, he wanted to hurt me: after i cast fear on him and the effect went off, he already had rolled for attack and dealt enough damage to kill me (and he was happy a little bit), but he forgot that our other players were jumping on him to stop him und he wasn't in reach so he just couldn't hit me... but i will talk to him out of the game, and if he wants to play so, he simply has to feel the wrath of a red wizard... :D
kliate 03-01-05, 03:21 PM	Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement makes barbarians cry (1d6+3) x1.5 penalty to Str averages 9.75 points of str loss (Range: 6-13). That kind of loss will reduce his carrying capacity to about 1/4 of normal - which usually means (at the very least) that he just moved up a weight category of encumbrance. If he carries a medium load most of the time, his fast movement (and possibly the ability to move more than 5ft/round) will disappear until he manages to drop enough equipment. If/when the barbarian is unloading, hit him with a ray of exhaustion to drive your point home. gods, I love necromancy.
Odin_666 03-04-05, 04:38 PM	promblem is resolved, the DM just told me whoever of us kills the other guy will hand over his character to him....
Bane 03-04-05, 06:29 PM	That works out really well for you, because there are all sorts of things Wizards can do to Barbarians without killing them. Blindness/Deafness, Bestow Curse, Baleful Polymorph, even just Enlarging the guy the Barbarian is toe to toe with. You aren't killing him, you're just making it easier for something else to kill him. Barbarians don't get the same opportunities.
Odin_666 03-05-05, 04:20 AM	That works out really well for you, because there are all sorts of things Wizards can do to Barbarians without killing them. Blindness/Deafness, Bestow Curse, Baleful Polymorph, even just Enlarging the guy the Barbarian is toe to toe with. You aren't killing him, you're just making it easier for something else to kill him. Barbarians don't get the same opportunities. yeah, i thought i could use fear and dominate him and simply set him walking to waterdeep, but i guess the dm thinks that this is the same as killing :( but if there are seveal monster fighting only against the barbarian i will not help him... :D
Ice Wizard 03-05-05, 12:08 PM	Have you thought about poisoning him in his sleep? Begin with something to damage his lowest mental score (to be sure he won't wake up) and then poison him to death with something damaging con. When he's dead, hit yourself with poisoned dart (this time something without ability damage, just unconsciousness) - nobody will suspect you, when you are hit too. :twisted: Normally, this would work but you have to remember something about this guy: He's a Dwarf. Dwarves are resistant to poison (They get a bonus to their foritude saves against it). Add this into the fact that Barbarians also have a high fortitude saves and that Dwarves also get a bonus to Constitution and you will begin to see just how futile trying to poison a dwarf is. I reccomend focusing on his weaknesses: The fear, suggestion, and enervation ideas are probably your best bet here. As with anything, even if you Ice this guy, you will still have to figure out how to deal with the rest of the party (and that will be a much much harder task for you) (Edited to make a quick change to spelling and grammar) :u: