Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Deekin 01-18-06, 01:45 PM	Consedering the old Thread got locked, I figured I would start a new one. H ey There!! Got a DM that's great, but has a few HOUSE RULES that get on your nerves?--rules that don't make any sense , are inconsistent, or seem to 'POP' out of no where? WELL!!! This is the place to vent about it! Yup, that's right! By posting in this thread, it is assumed that you have the utmost respect for your DM. Thus, this gives a safe place to share and resolve your specific issues. So, instead of holding it in until you're ready to explode or you develop a nervous twitch , you should LET US KNOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!!!! Note: Again by posting in this thread the user should NOT assume all risks of injury . If you are a DM reading this thread, these posts are not intended to flame , insult , disrespect or destroy our beloved DMs. As players we are thankful to have DMs out there willing to do so much work for us . After all, . . . without DMs, the game would not exist! However, despite how much we love you , it is worth while to have a healthy place to bring issues out into the open. So, players, . . . LET LOOSE! However, PLEASE refrain from vulger language. This thread is NOT intended to insult our DMs. Please tell your side of the story in good taste. Inappropriate posts will be REPORTED.
Deekin 01-18-06, 01:46 PM	I'll Start this new thread off. Tom’s House rules 1. Will saves have been remapped to Charisma. Charisma is a character’s force of personality. s 2. Initiative is remapped to wisdom. If you have no clue about what is going on around you, others get to go first. 3. There shall be no arguing with the DM about rules during game play. Take it up with me some other time. If I was wrong you get 20xlevel in bonus XP, but if you are wrong, then you loose that much 4. There shall be no threatening the DM with physical violence. 5. There shall be no rolling of stats; 32-point buy is effect. 6. Roll-playing shall earn no bonus XP, role-playing shall earn bonus XP, and Out of Character stuff gets you -XP 7. The following books are banned- Savage Species and Anything from FR. 8. The following are banned from allowed books: Frenzied Berserker, and Anything the Character Optimization board can come up with, Including C.o.D.zilla, The Cheater of Mystra, Pun-Pun, and Ubur-mount, just to name a few 9. The Following are allowed with no resections: Anything Core, Anything Eberrion, the Complete Series, and the Expanded Psionics Handbook. 10. The DM must approve any Other Material, after reviewing it. 11. All Characters must have one-paragraph back-stories, and if you do not have one the DM will write one for you, and you must play by it. 12. Keeping an IC Journal will earn you bonus XP. 13. If you do not write an Item down, you lose it. This does not apply to Plot Items. 14. All Errata will be enforced. 15. You can make an On-hand purchase for any item worth less that 1/100 of your total gold. 16. As for Rule 8, the more exotic Character must a have a more detailed back-story. As a rule of Thumb, + one Paragraph per LA or Racial HD. This does not apply to Humanoids in the Monster Manual. 17. The DM has the right to hide or reveal dice rolls as he pleases 18. Players must roll on the battle mat and let the DM see it before grabbing it, or it is a natural one. 19. If it does not have a shown LA, and not a player race, you cannot play one. 20. If a Char dies or you want a new one, you can bring in a new one at the level of the lowest party member -1, counting either the newly dead Char, or the retiring one. 21. The DM reserves the right to use Rule 0, but only to simplify life, or for fun. 22. Any Comment is made In Char, period. 23. Meta-gaming is punishable by DM Wrath TM 24. Anytime you violate one of the above rules, a monster gains a level. 25. If you have a problem with the rules, Email the DM at [Email removed to Portect Gm]
green_yawgmoth 01-18-06, 02:03 PM	I was going to start this thread, but I was waiting for WizO_the_hutt to get back to me about it, since restarting a locked thread is usually a bad idea unless a WizO gives the okay. :/ As for the aove, they aren't bad. init to wis is wierd, but since will saves are cha based (which I wholeheartedly agree with), it keeps wis worth something. Roll-roleplaying thing makes me leery of him, though. The ones who use that term are usually elitists of the worst kind. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Brave Sir Bevier 01-18-06, 08:06 PM	It was perhaps thought that by getting the post "Stickied", it would increase the thread's life. I have not been informed as to why the thread has been locked, but I would attribute this to the thread's great size. Please, keep me informed as I would like to continue the thread in any case. Thanks for all of your support for over two years. ~Bevier
green_yawgmoth 01-18-06, 08:58 PM	According to the Hutt, it was because of size. They're pruning things, and the giant thread needed to be pruned, I guess. He also said that the new thread is fine by him, but that he'd send the PM I sent to Doxxy just to make sure. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
akiio 01-18-06, 09:59 PM	Hmm, I have the old thread bookmarked, and can read it just fine.
Radijs 01-19-06, 05:52 AM	They are going to prune the fora. There's an announcement about the downtime & all. Well lets get going again! Lets gripe about our terrible DM's!
Hasmead_Guy 01-19-06, 06:59 AM	Deekin says: 23. Meta-gaming is punishable by DM Wrath TM The other rules weren't really bad, but that one can raise problems. We're always metagaming. Think about it. The way you RP is NEVER the same way you'd truly behave in that situation, and we always assume there's a way out/badguy at the end/ only one bad guy/ reasonable amount of monsters we'll have to fight. Maybe he only means the extreme situations?
Far_Traveler 01-19-06, 09:30 AM	the old thread died!? :raincloud My house rules(accually pretty lenient with them, sound more harsh then they are) Any loopholes shall be plugged as i see fit (no pun-pun, share pain infinity loop, etc.) the first 2 levels have max hp for hit dice Alignment will be enforced as follows, generally more lenient if alignment restrictions: LG: Valorous NG: Kind CG: Vigilante LN: Honorable NN: Apathetic CN: Unpredictable, moody(i'm like this) LE: Hateful, logical, elaborate evil NE: Just plain Evil CE: Simple evil, slaughter Combat is not everything, plan accordingly Dragons are big, dragons are powerful, and most importantly, dragons are SMART Leadership will win you a cohort that gains half your xp, but not followers, except in special cases when it would make a huge difference Be creative with spellcasting and abilities, it may just work. I am not the GM, i am the Game Ordiance Director, or G.O.D. (j/k)
The White Sorcerer 01-19-06, 09:56 AM	Dragons are big, dragons are powerful, and most importantly, dragons are SMART This isn't a house rule, it's the Truth™. I hate it when DMs post their own non-ridicilous house rules here. It's against the spirit of the thread!
kraegor 01-19-06, 01:22 PM	I believe that the rule of meta-gaming is just silly. If you are a good GM your players wont have a chance to metagame, example? Sure! here you go: Instead of saying: A giant, ugly green troll walks out of the jungle, points to you and says, "I eat you". Say: A large, 10 foot, scaly and hairy beast lowers itself from a tree, you can see saliva dripping from its large fangs and it snarls at you. Hooking a wicked looking claw in your direction, it growls "I eat you". Now who could guess from my description that might be a troll? It honestly could have been anything, lizardman, troll, ogre, whatever. The key to it is I like to change things up, if everyone screams, OMG! its a troll! Then proceed to pull out flasks of oil. Then i just go.. *swish* and guess what? Its now a Feral Lizardman. Easy, simple, the characters never know, and it makes it so much more fun. The best meta-gaming prevention tip is when a player asks a question such as "Are red dragons evil?" you don't say "Yes" "No" or "I don't know". You say "You don't know". Works every time.
Freedom 01-19-06, 01:44 PM	If you are a good GM your players wont have a chance to metagame, example? Sure! here you go: Then i just go.. *swish* and guess what? Its now a Feral Lizardman. It is my opinion that a metagaming DM is much worse than metagaming players. Negating cleverness hardly seems like "so much more fun" to me. One DM had a house rule that was fairly annoying. In a planes-based game, he was using the old Plansescape rule that magic items lose their powers as they get farther from their plane of origin. It was done to add some immersion and flavor to the game, so the point was never argued and we all had fun. The way it worked was that for every 'step' you are away from your home plane, you would lose a +1 (or equivalent) from every item. +1 weapons become masterwork, Rings of Protection +1 just become nice rings, etc. Special qualities went before enchantment bonuses, so you could forget about your weapon ever retaining its Keen or Bane properties. For this reason, items forged in the Ethereal Plane were worth much more to those who do a lot of planar travelling, but acquiring those carried a slew of in-game problems. It was still a fun game with memorable characters.
Black Kitten 01-19-06, 03:43 PM	I believe that the rule of meta-gaming is just silly. If you are a good GM your players wont have a chance to metagame, example? Sure! here you go: Instead of saying: A giant, ugly green troll walks out of the jungle, points to you and says, "I eat you". Say: A large, 10 foot, scaly and hairy beast lowers itself from a tree, you can see saliva dripping from its large fangs and it snarls at you. Hooking a wicked looking claw in your direction, it growls "I eat you". Now who could guess from my description that might be a troll? It honestly could have been anything, lizardman, troll, ogre, whatever. The key to it is I like to change things up, if everyone screams, OMG! its a troll! Then proceed to pull out flasks of oil. Then i just go.. *swish* and guess what? Its now a Feral Lizardman. Easy, simple, the characters never know, and it makes it so much more fun. The best meta-gaming prevention tip is when a player asks a question such as "Are red dragons evil?" you don't say "Yes" "No" or "I don't know". You say "You don't know". Works every time. The discription thing works, until your players simply know what they are facing. I'm using class levels, templates and about anything odd to keep them on their toes. And to keep them from thinkingit may 'just be a goblin'.
Evil_Bishi03 01-19-06, 06:24 PM	I am a long time DM with little player experience, so when I was invited to play in a game DM'd by a friend of a friend of mine, I was thrilled! I decided to play a warlock, and my girlfriend a sorceress. Both were OK'd by the DM. First session went Ok, although the DM mistook concealment for cover when we were fighting a chain-shrouded Kyton on the ceiling. 50% miss chance, I'll remind you, not 20% for normal cover. Apparently they were pretty damn good chains. Additionally the only currency is gold pieces, and art objects and gems aren't found as part of treasure, hows that for flavor? Later I tried to use my eldrich blast to clear away snow from an avalanch covering a mountain pass, doing a piddly 1d6 points of damage per round because of the clearly justified 1/2 damage to objects rule, until some magical wraith haunted black Ice came out from under us and chased the party into a cave we decided not to explore before. The next session, The Dm infromed me that unlimited eldrich blasts and invocations per day was too overpowered, despite my not having shown any combat-related advantage over the rest of the party previously. I was limited to my warlock level plus my charisma modifier times 1.5 per day. with a +3 modifier, and level 5 i had 12 uses of my abilities per day. I'm pretty sure the wizard had more spells per day than me, and my girlfriend's sorceress definately did. Also, when the party was ambushed by a hydra, our party mages (Sorceress, warlock, and wizard) all tried to identify what it was with our knowledge(arcana) rolls. However, everyone but the wizard received a whopping -10 penalty to our rolls because we 'weren't book-learned, unlike the wizard'. Who says Sorcerers don't read? Where did we get knowledge arcana, anyway? Thanks for making that skill completely useless to everyone but the wizard. When I reached 7th level, I got the 'flee the scene' invocation, allowing a short ranged (25'+5'/2 levels)dimensional door leaving behind a major image of myself for one round. Not only did not ONE of the enemies we ever faced ever mistakingly waste an attack on my decoy, but I was informed that if I 'Fleed' to a space occupied by an object, I would save Fort DC18 or die, as with the meld into stone spell when the entire stone gets destroyed. I was told this not at first, but when I was about to use my ability to warp to the other side of a door. To top it all off, durring the final 'boss' of a fortress, we were fighting some kind of spellcaster from the frostburn book. It was past 3 in the morning and more than one party member was in the single digit hit pionts. I used my maximise eldrich blast ability, trying to end it quickly. It should have done 26 damage, but it did only 11 because I was told the enemy had damage reduction 15/- from some kind of spell. When I objected that eldrich blast is a spell like ability and not subject to damage reducion and opened the book to find the paragraph in the phb that supported my, the other party members objected because they didn't want to waste the time! With eldrich blast restricted, invocations limited, and risking my life every time i 'flee the sceen' somewhere I can't see, I just feel cheeted.
green_yawgmoth 01-19-06, 06:41 PM	GRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAHH!! :headexplo Why do so many people think the warlock is overpowered? "Durrr, unlimited magic? B0rked!" I mean, do they even take the time to READ the invocations you get to have "at will"? The buffs are all to skills or flight (and what wizard doesn't just buy a cloak of flight anyways at the level you can get it), the eldritch essence/shapes are practically more expensive (because you only get 12 invocs,remember) versions of low level spells, and there are NO 9th or 8th level abilities (except foresight, which shouldn't be a 9th level spell anyways). I don't hear anyone complaining about the ranger getting a bunch of arrow shots and spells, or a barbarian getting unlimited swings of his greataxe, so why the warlock hate? They're more spread out than a bard's abilities for god's sake! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Evil_Bishi03 01-19-06, 10:31 PM	Yeah, the DM didn't even wait to see before deciding it was overpowered. As I said I get less spells per day than the sorcerer, with mainly inferior abilities. at the moment my blast does 4d6, which is the same as one ray of scorching ray(of which equal level castors get two) and even though magic missile doesn't do as much it still never misses... Oh, and fearing for my live whenever I want to phase to the other side of a door? That does not make me happy.
kinjojones 01-19-06, 10:59 PM	everyone starts as a level 1 Human Commoner, no other races or PC classes, no exceptions. I know of a DM who enforces this.
Morbid 01-19-06, 11:01 PM	No swallowing of Dice. (I never asked him but it seemed like someone did it)
Meshakhad 01-20-06, 01:03 AM	A simple ban on metagaming is a bad idea, but discouraging metagaming is a good thing. I think that I might occasionally give bonus XP to players who consistently AVOID metagaming when they had the chance, as a reward. Then again, I don't actually play that often, and I almost never DM. In the last game I played, my DM said that I did a very good job of not metagaming. If we ever continue that game, he'll probably not be so nice after I drop the bad guys' abilities to nothing (my party is a hexblade, a spellthief, a telepath, and a cleric of Xan Yae).
green_yawgmoth 01-20-06, 01:22 AM	everyone starts as a level 1 Human Commoner, no other races or PC classes, no exceptions. I know of a DM who enforces this. No, you know a crazy guy who lives in the basement who plays d20 boring with the other voices in his head. :P http://photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
kraegor 01-20-06, 01:40 AM	It is my opinion that a metagaming DM is much worse than metagaming players. Negating cleverness hardly seems like "so much more fun" to me. A meta-gaming DM? Hardly. If my players figured out fire hurt this monstrous creature by accident, like they noticed it wasn't attacking the NPC that was holding all thier torches, or it wouldn't go near the people near the campfire, then I would NEVER change the monster. If they PC's manage to magically figure out that this thing is a troll because I said it was green, and had a hooked nose. Well they never have seen a troll, and the last thing you are thinking when this thing jumps out at you is "hmm.. let me see if I can remember what that is" you are thinking, "holy crap, let me either run or grab my sword". I don't change things to make it more difficult for the party, i change things to be more INTERESTING. And to BlackKitten: The discription thing works, until your players simply know what they are facing. I'm using class levels, templates and about anything odd to keep them on their toes. And to keep them from thinkingit may 'just be a goblin'. This is where things get interesting, polymorph potions, alter self spells, whatever. Sometimes yes, the player knows that a bugbear is just a bugbear. But.. what if the bugbear was wearing platemail with a helm and they couldn't see anything other than the platemail? Or how about different colors? There are different colors of humans, why not goblins? "You see a small goblinoid creature in front of you, 4 feet tall, with large ears and nose, but he is bright red with white hair and needle sharp teeth" They won't ever guess thats just a regular old goblin with red warpaint dye on with his teeth sharpened, they gonna think its some kind of demon or wierd monster. Just as there are different types of birds, horses etc, i think thier are different types of monsters. Who says a griffon actually cant have a more storklike beak, and stripes like a tiger? See, imagery is everything in a campaign, and when you create a colorful world, your Players will always be entertained. Meta-gaming is only a problem in role-playing games. In a hack-and-slash game, it doesn't even matter. And your GM should NOT be playing a role-playing game unless he can describe things in detail and carry on conversations and think of plots and twists and storylines. If a GM continually runs pre-made adventures, and then says "no meta-gaming" I have to laugh. Since playing I have made up over 12 different worlds, 32 different countries, literally hundreds of in-depth NPCS and many many more things. Some don't work out, and some I have players that contact me years later saying, man, I STILL remember that awesome came in Pangonia with the Wizards Circle man, do you think we could continue it? But thats just my play style, I make up everything. I have never EVER used a pre-made adventure, and never will. Things flow off the top of my head, and things always are fun, exciting and just mesh.
Hasmead_Guy 01-20-06, 09:15 AM	Meta-gaming is only a problem in role-playing games. In a hack-and-slash game, it doesn't even matter. And your GM should NOT be playing a role-playing game unless he can describe things in detail and carry on conversations and think of plots and twists and storylines. Hold up, man. There are different types of people and personalities out there, some people are good at improvisation, some are okay. Some DMs aren't necessarily the life-of-the-party type but know the rules and are fair with them. Some are great planners and come up with ideas ahead of time, but can't always think on their feet or come up with things that astound the players. Just because YOU think a DM should be all that and more doesn't mean they shouldn't try their hand at running a game if they aren't as good as you.
Morbid 01-20-06, 09:23 PM	I'm with Hasmead
Archangel62 01-20-06, 11:18 PM	Let me list one of my DMs, Said he wanted a 3.0 campaign (hates 3.5 with a passion because he thinks that the new spells are too weak yadda yadda) So I come in as a wizard, he explains that this is a low magic setting so it will be harder to find magic items, scrolls, etc. Annoying for me but fine, my character comes in as a prisoner of this tribe of orcs. I get found by the PALADIN, said paladin does not untie or free me, even though he sees no sign of detect evil, instead he hits me hard over the head and knocks me out. I called foul and he explained that since I was in the same camp as the orcs I could be evil and thus he needed to ensure that I didn't cause any more havoc. He then throws me onto his wagon hard enough to knock my character unconcious, then dumps the piles of treasure that he found from the orc encampment (all of it of course useful for paladins and divine characters only) dealing me more damage as it landed. And of course the paladin couldn't fall for doing things like this because I might be evil even though I didn't radiate any aura of evil or even show any sign of hostility. The battlerager (dwarven barbarian) saw me and pulled me off the wagon and untied me. I then explained what happened, the paladin then told me that I owed him for saving my life and that I had to do as he said...yeah. Later in this game we went through communities of elves and gnomes, no arcane scrolls but plenty of divine. Also, all the boosters only worked for characters that used divine magic and the paladin kept getting mass amounts of treasure, which he gave to his church, which gave him other gifts and boons. I'll add this little fun fact too, later on we find this town that had apparently a magical well of sorts. I want to look at it but the dwarf wants to keep going, I go with. The town gets attacked by plot hammers...er by 19th level clerics of nerull (please note we were level 6) who joined hands around the well, well we can't do much and I was out of spells, we retreat. We end up getting a fair distance, almost 4 miles, suddenly we fall dead from wail of the banshee, that was coming from the TOWN. Also, our characters died almost 10 times, we kept coming back from apparently a wandering cleric who liked casting True Ressurection on random people. Also, if we decided to try a new character that character had to start over at level one, regardless. I was getting sick of a wizard that had NO use because I had so few spells and no magical equipment. I should also add that the dwarf had two nice items, adamantine warhammer and an adamantine suit of fullplate. The halfling had two masterwork daggers and a riding dog. The monk had...ok the monk might have been worse off than me. The paldin had a holy avenger, +5 suit of fullplate, a ring of shocking grasp that turned any weapon he touched into a shocking weapon, cloak of charisma +2 etc etc. This was the same person who *****ed at me when I ran games that I was favoring players when they got more bonus xp than he did for clever ideas and strategies, or if anyone ends up doing better than he is.
Evil_Bishi03 01-20-06, 11:52 PM	Let me list one of my DMs, Said he wanted a 3.0 campaign (hates 3.5 with a passion because he thinks that the new spells are too weak yadda yadda) So I come in as a wizard, he explains that this is a low magic setting so it will be harder to find magic items, scrolls, etc. Annoying for me but fine, my character comes in as a prisoner of this tribe of orcs. I get found by the PALADIN, said paladin does not untie or free me, even though he sees no sign of detect evil, instead he hits me hard over the head and knocks me out. I called foul and he explained that since I was in the same camp as the orcs I could be evil and thus he needed to ensure that I didn't cause any more havoc. He then throws me onto his wagon hard enough to knock my character unconcious, then dumps the piles of treasure that he found from the orc encampment (all of it of course useful for paladins and divine characters only) dealing me more damage as it landed. And of course the paladin couldn't fall for doing things like this because I might be evil even though I didn't radiate any aura of evil or even show any sign of hostility. The battlerager (dwarven barbarian) saw me and pulled me off the wagon and untied me. I then explained what happened, the paladin then told me that I owed him for saving my life and that I had to do as he said...yeah. Later in this game we went through communities of elves and gnomes, no arcane scrolls but plenty of divine. Also, all the boosters only worked for characters that used divine magic and the paladin kept getting mass amounts of treasure, which he gave to his church, which gave him other gifts and boons. I'll add this little fun fact too, later on we find this town that had apparently a magical well of sorts. I want to look at it but the dwarf wants to keep going, I go with. The town gets attacked by plot hammers...er by 19th level clerics of nerull (please note we were level 6) who joined hands around the well, well we can't do much and I was out of spells, we retreat. We end up getting a fair distance, almost 4 miles, suddenly we fall dead from wail of the banshee, that was coming from the TOWN. Also, our characters died almost 10 times, we kept coming back from apparently a wandering cleric who liked casting True Ressurection on random people. Also, if we decided to try a new character that character had to start over at level one, regardless. I was getting sick of a wizard that had NO use because I had so few spells and no magical equipment. I should also add that the dwarf had two nice items, adamantine warhammer and an adamantine suit of fullplate. The halfling had two masterwork daggers and a riding dog. The monk had...ok the monk might have been worse off than me. The paldin had a holy avenger, +5 suit of fullplate, a ring of shocking grasp that turned any weapon he touched into a shocking weapon, cloak of charisma +2 etc etc. This was the same person who *****ed at me when I ran games that I was favoring players when they got more bonus xp than he did for clever ideas and strategies, or if anyone ends up doing better than he is. Yikes, and I thought My current DM was showing discrimination. Your DM makes mine look like a pro-arcanist advocate...
kinjojones 01-21-06, 12:30 AM	No, you know a crazy guy who lives in the basement who plays d20 boring with the other voices in his head. :P http://photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif You got a PC class when you leveled up. You had to essentially level up before you could even be level 1. And I almost joined his game. Dodged a bullet on that one.
Hasmead_Guy 01-21-06, 01:05 AM	You know how most DMs will give extra XP for good jokes/ clever RP devices/ good ideas? My DM does too, but his definition of clever and mine tend to differ quite a bit. Once I used stone cunning to discover that a statue would slide over to reveal a hidden passage. In the same game, somebody farted. He awarded the farting guy XP because it made everyone laugh, and totally forgot how I used my ability. I was a little annoyed to say the least.
Archangel62 01-21-06, 01:19 AM	He tended to get that way in all of his games, he usually gives one or two players hideously huge items and will either shaft or ignore the rest. What got funny was that he was the first one to complain any time in any other games screaming that people were being favored or the power imbalance was too big, usually when he wasn't the one getting the imbalance.
Black Kitten 01-21-06, 05:49 AM	And to BlackKitten: This is where things get interesting, polymorph potions, alter self spells, whatever. Sometimes yes, the player knows that a bugbear is just a bugbear. But.. what if the bugbear was wearing platemail with a helm and they couldn't see anything other than the platemail? Or how about different colors? There are different colors of humans, why not goblins? "You see a small goblinoid creature in front of you, 4 feet tall, with large ears and nose, but he is bright red with white hair and needle sharp teeth" They won't ever guess thats just a regular old goblin with red warpaint dye on with his teeth sharpened, they gonna think its some kind of demon or wierd monster. Just as there are different types of birds, horses etc, i think thier are different types of monsters. Who says a griffon actually cant have a more storklike beak, and stripes like a tiger? See, imagery is everything in a campaign, and when you create a colorful world, your Players will always be entertained. Meta-gaming is only a problem in role-playing games. In a hack-and-slash game, it doesn't even matter. And your GM should NOT be playing a role-playing game unless he can describe things in detail and carry on conversations and think of plots and twists and storylines. If a GM continually runs pre-made adventures, and then says "no meta-gaming" I have to laugh. Since playing I have made up over 12 different worlds, 32 different countries, literally hundreds of in-depth NPCS and many many more things. Some don't work out, and some I have players that contact me years later saying, man, I STILL remember that awesome came in Pangonia with the Wizards Circle man, do you think we could continue it? But thats just my play style, I make up everything. I have never EVER used a pre-made adventure, and never will. Things flow off the top of my head, and things always are fun, exciting and just mesh. I never stated that it was actually a problem in my campaign. You do not need to use different colors, or even equipment discriptions. My players are currently lvl 10, they have a bard, a druid and a very smart wizard in the party, including also a PsyWarrior who has lead a 100 lives during a 1000 period he was enclosed in ice. If they come across something, I'll just say: "It's a goblin.". My players will simply know that if they come across 'a goblin' it is likely: that he is not Evil, that he is CR10 or higher, he is neither, but has something of information, or the DM is just screwing around with them. The latter option would require them to kill the little bugger, but any other options will be considered. That way a fight is never simply a fight. I never used a pre-made adventure either. I have a kind of status-quo world where the PC's actually have influence. My Players stay out! Two sessions ago, they did not kill off a whole castle of LE/LN guards while they were taking out a LE king and rescuing a CG rebel. They simply went through the roof into the throne room (it was a small castle) and used the king as a hostage to get to Rashemen (from Damara) (They're CN). The guards lived and will be back at far higher levels to take their bloody revenge. But I believe this is a House Rule Threat about stupid houserules... Let's keep it at that.
Gailbraithe 01-21-06, 09:36 AM	Over the last week I had a lot of free time, as did two of my players, so one of them decided to DM and we rolled up characters. He looked through my collection of adventures and Last night we finally finished Idylls of the Rat King, fighting and killing the BBEG. We cleaned his clock, and he was an after-thought to the "impossible" to destroy vampire-sorceress that was suppossed to be such a huge deal. Pfft. Anyways, the DM was feeling a bit bruised, because we tenderized and destroyed the two final bad guys. He certainly was complaining about how easy it was a lot. He was really shocked at how easily we destroyed the vampire, saying things like "That fight didn't consume hardly any of your resources." This despite the fact that we dropped slightly over 4000 GP prepping for the fight (1200 on one-shot items), and cast nine spells before we busted open her prison (she was stuck in a jar). So anyways, he boosted the BBEG in response, and gave him a bunch of allies. But let me back up. My wizard had just learned Knock, and had it memorized as we went into the dungeon to face the BBEG. As we're about to bust into his room, I realize I'm probably not going to get any chances to use the spell, so on a lark, I say "I cast knock on the door and we walk in." No sweat, door opens, we walk in, clean villain's clock. Despite the boosts he gave him. DM was pretty upset, and was complaining a lot about how much he disliked "losing". I reminded him that DMing is not about winning or losing, it's about running the game fair and fun. Then we go through another door and find four huge coffers with complex locking mechanisms. The spellthief searches all four, finds traps on each, tries to disable the first and gets an arrow in the chest for a few meager points of damage. We open the first coffer, collect the loot, say hurrah. But there are three more traps to deal with. Since the dungeon is officially cleared, I suggest the party minus my mage spends a few hours searching the rest of the unlooted rooms and gathering treasure while I recover my spells. Then I memorize three knock spells and cast them on the coffers. Suddenly the DM wants to see the PHB. He reads the description, and decides that Knock doesn't open things, it just unlocks them, and that we still have to open the coffers (and thus set off the traps). He decides this not twenty minutes (RT)/nine hours(GT) after I opened an unlocked set of doors with the very same spell. I pointed this out to him in the spell description: The knock spell opens stuck, barred, locked, held, or arcane locked doors. It opens secret doors, as well as locked or trick-opening boxes or chests. And he decided that knock - one of the most classic of classic spells, been around forever - was "ridiculously overpowered for a second level spell". Because, you know, being able to open a box without getting shot by an arrow is so freaking unbalancing. Finally in frustration I just opened the boxes, demanded he roll the 3d8 damage (I had 27 hit points), and had the druid instantly heal me of all damage (he had 2 Cure Moderates memorized). I asked him if that would give him what he wanted and if he felt like he had "won" by making the game "more challenging" by pretending that open and unlock are the same thing. When he insisted that the spell's wording wasn't clear and that it didn't say that the knock door or box "magically sprung open", I pointed at the door and asked him if was unlocked, if it was open, pointed out that it was both, and he responded with some personal attacks on my character. So now I'm trying to decide if I should ask him to leave my game, in which he's a player. Because really, being called names because I know the difference between the words "open" and "unlock" is a bit more than I can stomach.
green_yawgmoth 01-21-06, 12:27 PM	Gail, not only would I boot him from my game, but I would also physically boot him from my apartment. I mean, what does he want, a TPK every night? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
On_the_wings_of_TPK 01-21-06, 02:48 PM	DM 1: The Novelist This guy was kinda an emo kid, and had these really weird plots, to which the PCs were only spectators. We all meet in the bar, and see some chick NPC getting the snot beat out of her. I, playing a Paladin, am left with little choice but to intercede. I ask politely that the thugs cease and desist what they're are doing. They tell me to mind my own business. I ask again a little more firmly, they respond with their swords. The rest of the party gets in on it and we defeat them. Then the NPC leaves...to come back an hour later and explain that the guard is coming and we have to leave...ok then, we should leave..along the way we meet our guide, a 20th level something or another with enough loot to buy an island. He points out a rather deadly trap along the way; no search check from our rogue, he just points it out. Later we are on a country road, and we encounter 12 x ECL 6-7 cat-folk things (not the race from Races of the Wild) waiting in ambush. We were level 3. But they were not ambushing us, they were waiting for something else. After some interesting negotiations with some very angsty catfolk they agreed to take us to their village. (I thought we were going there anyway...) The villiage elder gives an assignment to go through the desert to into some jungle and then retrieve...something or another. I think. Our guide was an 18th level catfolk princess, the same one we rescued from the bar. So off we go looking for something (we'll know when we find it.) Why are we going? It was never explained to us. Where are we going? Again, we were not told. How are we going to get there? The guide knows the way. Along the way we encounter various monsters, all over CR 5. (We're third level, don't forget.) Antimagic bushes that explode when stones of alarm are tossed into them. Our guide had a magic bag of everything; whenever we needed somthing she just pulled it out of this magic bag kept safely up her arse. Finally we reach Stonehenge, in the jungle, that cast fire storm as if it were a 20th level druid whenever someone hits it with a sword. Seeing as how my paladin was now barbeque, I gave up to go smoke. Oddly, this stonehenge changed its mind about the radius of its spell, because if it had worked as the DM originally planned, it would've TPKed us. The DM tried to retro-fix it and was politely informed that no, my character was dead anyway as she had fallen on her sword. Crappy DM the Second ...ran a PBEM my wife (UltimateRealtiy) found. This story is better told by her, so she'll write it.... He seemed to be a good, story-oriented DM (based on reading past sessions on the website) and so I happily drew up a background and a character sheet. TPK joined in as well. The problems started as soon as he introduced me to his group in an email, proclaiming me "a real, live girl!" (even though they were all supposedly family men in their 30s and well-acquainted with the opposite gender). He didn't like TPK's character's Charisma being 8; apparently there was an unwritten houserule that all your mental stats had to be 9 or higher. And it came out of your point buy. When asked to please write down ALL his houserules like that so we could make character creation go more smoothly, his response was: "It would be a waste of my time and energy to write down all my unwritten houserules." (verbatim) He also got upset because TPK's druid char had not maxed out her ranks in Heal -- even though it was a non-class skill and nothing in her backstory indicated she had ever acted as a healer (the concept was actually "nature's avenger"). Because TPK maxed out all her ranks in class skills, he was proclaimed "a powergamer", in the derogatory sense. All of this led to a more general argument over the proper amount of control a DM has over character creation. The DM used as an example that he had simply told another player he had to take his first level in Ranger instead of Psion, and had "no complaints". He also used such wonderful gems as "I could give you a -4 penalty to every check and you'd never know". When called on it, he claimed it was merely an example. We felt that any DM who needed to use those kind of "examples" needed an attitude readjustment and left. DM #3: The Mixer He was an old 2nd ed DM who felt that the game best played when one incorporated anything and everything possible from any source he could get his hands on. This included, but was not limitted to 2nd ed, 3.0, and 3.5 material, Star Wars, d20 Modern, War Hammer, Diablo, and Warcraft. It took him a week to figure out how my 12th level wizard was able to cast 3 spells a round. (3.0 haste and the Dual Wand Wielding feat from CA.) This game also had a sentient skeleton, a dwarven defender with 300+ HP, and a CN rogue that did not know how sneak attack worked. (I explained flanking to him about 6 times over the course of 2 sessions.) And then there was the warforged golem. The player couldn't quite wrap his head around him not being owned and completely controlled by my character. (He seemed to think I created him even though I did not have the Craft Construct feat and had no ranks in any relevent skill. My concept wasn't even close to that of a creator of magic items, let alone sentient beings.) Somehow he found this magic ring that, when worn, made him completely immune to all magic. Not just magic targetted at him, but all magic anywhere. It did more then that; apparently if he was caught in the area of effect of any spell, the spell was immediately dispelled. The entire spell, immediately, no saves, no one else took any damage from it. The DM also had some 3 or 4 diffirent charts for critical failures and successes which were enforced randomly throughout the session. His dungeon fallowed the same pattern for every set of rooms. First room: nothing. Second room: deadly trap. Guns in the walls, and a lightning boilt that ricocheted off the walls until its distance was worn out. And then, room number 3: 10 Crs 10s, and one CR 20 lead. That should have been a TPK (the 6 of us were 12th level), except that the enemies just stood there and shot at us. Never saw any NPC move more than 15 feet. Even the Chaos Marines with the plasma guns that would go Judge Dredd on us if we tried to use them. He obviously fudged all his rolls to make combat last exactly how long he wanted and have exactly which PCs and NPCs he wanted fall in exactly the order he wanted. When his wife put on LotR, the entire table stopped mid-combat to watch it. I amazingly enough do not have time for their games anymore. However I have offered to DM for them. I will do it too if they want. They were nice people, just a little on the gonzo side. If I do DM for them I decided that it will be core only...
Lord_Cabby 01-21-06, 08:54 PM	Wow, TPK, I feel bad for you. Those are some Crazy DMs you've had to deal with.
Chaos_Infidel 01-21-06, 11:55 PM	Natural 1's count as negative 10's. Natural 20's count as 30. The banning of certain feats, classes, and legit D&D accessory books such as races of the wild
green_yawgmoth 01-22-06, 12:00 AM	Natural 1's count as negative 10's. Natural 20's count as 30. The banning of certain feats, classes, and legit D&D accessory books such as races of the wild The first two have been used by so many DMs that they migh as well be printed as options in the DMG (and I think they already are). The last one is entirely the DM's perogative; he does not have to let you use every single book that WotC has produced. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Archangel62 01-22-06, 03:55 AM	I'll mention the other DM I had that made me want to pull my hair out. He apparently ran for the group I joined rather frequently for a while before I joined. Here's what happened in effect. 1) He suddenly decided that skill ranks, feats, etc. didn't matter for skill checks, just the d20 roll, the reason was that my character was actually managing to overcome his traps because I had the right skills in the right places. 2) I was playing a warlock and the town was attacked by a horde of zombie monks (I don't get it either but think zombie with a bunch of monk powers) which moved at about 80 feet per round and had an ungodly amount of HP. I started blasting with Eldrich blast, please note that I was around level 18 when we were doing this and had been dealing out large amounts of damage. If memory serves I had dealt over 1000 points of damage per zombie (The battle had gone on for about 10 minutes game time and we had lost a hideous number of townsfolk who for some reason kept teleporting right in front of the zombies no matter how quickly we worked to herd them away) and yet he said that they were still going, and these zombies were human base. 3) To tie in with above he told me that he wanted me to make a new character, my guess would be that it had to do with the fact that I was the only one making a large amount of headway against said zombies. Also we had to make/buy new items because all of the stuff we had before suddenly exploded due to a mobile disjunction field that always phased around NPCs. 4) As a player he would work to undercut the party in almost everything.He would do whatever he could to hinder the parties abilities, he was the paladin I had mentioned in my previous post as well as a druid in a campaign that frankly I don't want to discuss too much.
Hasmead_Guy 01-22-06, 09:59 AM	Natural 1's count as negative 10's. Natural 20's count as 30. The banning of certain feats, classes, and legit D&D accessory books such as races of the wild So how does this work with skills and feats? If a 1 comes up, do I subtract 10 from my skill modifier or save modifier? That would suck balls.
LiamDeclan 01-22-06, 10:26 AM	Okay if you guys want unbalanced then think about this: Our DM says that all clerics get to spontaneously cast any cleric spell they want up to the limit on how many they can cast per day minus the Domain spells which have to be spells you memorized/prayed for. In effect we don't have to pray for any cleric spells at all except the domain ones. Clerics run around like the Warmage being able to cast any spell listed until they run out of spells. Also the DM says that I don't have to have Extend Spell or Persistent Spell to use the Divine Metamagic Spell feat for Persistent Spell either. So basically I have a Archer/Cleric that just has Divine Metamagic(Persistent) and several Extra Turning feats along with his archery related feats.
speeblefreak 01-22-06, 10:42 AM	So how does this work with skills and feats? If a 1 comes up, do I subtract 10 from my skill modifier or save modifier? That would suck balls. Think about it: Is it really as bad as auto-failure? Also, skill checks do not have auto-successes and -failures. You treat 1 and 20 like any other rolls unless noted otherwise.
Far_Traveler 01-22-06, 06:06 PM	About my previous post, i apologize if i have annoyed or ticked off any of you, the dragon thing i feel needs to be said, andi have never ACCUALLY dm'ed with more then 2 people, or played with a DM that wasn't horrid... :raincloud
green_yawgmoth 01-25-06, 01:00 PM	:bump: in hopes that this thread gets stickied, like the old one was. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Khelvaster 01-25-06, 09:46 PM	I believe that the rule of meta-gaming is just silly. If you are a good GM your players wont have a chance to metagame, example? Sure! here you go: Instead of saying: A giant, ugly green troll walks out of the jungle, points to you and says, "I eat you". Say: A large, 10 foot, scaly and hairy beast lowers itself from a tree, you can see saliva dripping from its large fangs and it snarls at you. Hooking a wicked looking claw in your direction, it growls "I eat you". Now who could guess from my description that might be a troll? It honestly could have been anything, lizardman, troll, ogre, whatever. The key to it is I like to change things up, if everyone screams, OMG! its a troll! Then proceed to pull out flasks of oil. Then i just go.. *swish* and guess what? Its now a Feral Lizardman. Easy, simple, the characters never know, and it makes it so much more fun. The best meta-gaming prevention tip is when a player asks a question such as "Are red dragons evil?" you don't say "Yes" "No" or "I don't know". You say "You don't know". Works every time. However, anyone with a somewhat decent knowledge:dungeoneering check will very quickly figure out that this is a troll. DC 10 I believe to identify a monster.
BlueFlames 01-25-06, 10:54 PM	Uncorking a potion and gulping it down is a free action... ...or a move action... ...or a full-round action... ...or a swift action... ...or a full-round action... ...or a move action... Et cetera. I exaggerate, but only slightly. My DM did once change potion-drinking rules three times in as many sessions. In one session, the RAW didn't make any sense whatsoever, and a week later, the books were beacons of clarity and logic again. I've not played under any house rules that I've really found intolerable, but I hate an inconsistant set of house rules. I typed up "The Big, Evil Document of House Rules" for my players, so that I can ensure my own consistancy. If we come up with something to add later, it will be written into the handout, so that the rule isn't forgotten or reversed later.
The White Sorcerer 01-26-06, 12:04 PM	However, anyone with a somewhat decent knowledge:dungeoneering check will very quickly figure out that this is a troll. DC 10 I believe to identify a monster. DC 10 + monster's HD. Also, in this case, the appropriate skill is Knowledge (nature).
Deekin 01-26-06, 12:18 PM	PIEI've been playing D&D off-and-on for over 25 years. (Yes, I know this is my first post. I signed up years ago but that account seems to have vanished.) I recently started playing again and I'm getting used to the new 3.5 rules. The group I game with has a number of house rules. One of them requires the spellcasters to make a Spellcraft roll whenever they cast a spell. Since I was mostly relearning D&D as I played, I didn't think much of it. Having played other games like GURPS, making a skill roll for spells wasn't alien to me. When the rule was explained to me, I presumed that my DM's expert experience with the game brought about this house rule. For reasons I don't recall at the moment, it was explained that it somehow made the game more balanced. Or something. That was several months ago. And I had forgotten that it was a house rule and had subconciously accepted it as an official rule. Although I sometimes wondered why I found no reference to Spellcraft rolls in the books. That was because I had forgotten that it was a house rule. Anyway, I have recently noticed that my 12th level wizard was struggling to be of any help to the party at all. Every once in a while I would get past the direct hammering from enemies who were bent on "taking out the spell-caster." Sometimes before the end of the melee I'd get in a shot or two. And sometimes I would fail to even cast the spell because of the Spellcraft roll. This was happening again and again. At key moments when my spell would be incredibly useful, it would fail. Needless to say I maxed out my Spellcraft skill. But that only gets me so far. There's always a chance, no matter if I'm 1st level or 20th level, that I'll critically fail a cantrip. The other night at the game session after failing again and again at casting spells, I barely survived a gigantic battle. For example, an enemy hit me with Melf's Acid Arrow, a spell that does damage over the course of several rounds. In addition to the damage, the DM included a penalty to my Spellcraft roll! I complained once again about the Spellcraft rule and got yelled at for it. The DM told me that if I didn't like the house rules that were explained to me a long time ago, I could just leave. Well, I'm thinking of doing that. But it would be a damned shame because I haven't been in a group of serious gamers in years. And I have no idea if I'd ever find any others again. Does this Spellcraft roll when casting spells make the game unbalanced? I think it's horribly unfair, it cripples my wizard, and it's wrecking my enjoyment of the game. I do all of this preparation only to have my spells screw up half the time.
DarknessEternal 01-26-06, 01:29 PM	Then I memorize three knock spells and cast them on the coffers. Suddenly the DM wants to see the PHB. He reads the description, and decides that Knock doesn't open things, it just unlocks them, and that we still have to open the coffers (and thus set off the traps). Knock doesn't disable traps. If a trap is sprung based on something opening, Knock will activate that trap.
The White Sorcerer 01-26-06, 01:43 PM	If a trap is sprung based on something opening, Knock will activate that trap. However, with knock, one could activate the trap from a safe distance.
Murrdox 01-26-06, 03:18 PM	However, with knock, one could activate the trap from a safe distance. Did this same thing a couple sessions ago when our Rogue got hit by a "Feeblemind" spell, and was obviously in no condition to disable any traps. :)
aeous 01-26-06, 04:50 PM	i have a friend that's running his own campaign and i need to vent about them. he's running a game in his own setting, he has never run dungeons and dragons before and has started to change the rules. he has swapped the ability modifier for knowledge skill checks from intelligence to wisdom, he has added to new skill checks which is awareness which is spot and listen ranks combined and presense which can be made with any of the charisma based skill checks, but only he can state when the player can use them. he introduced a new character class he called the psychic monk, which i had to face in an arena at tenth level, the lower the psychic monk's hit point got the more special abilities it got. it started with pushing me backward 120 feet, the monk could close the distance and hit me with all his attacks plus an extra attack at full base attack bonus. after i lowered the character health further the monk could push me upward 120feet, close the distance with a jump check and hit with all his attacks plus the extra again. after that the monk could push me at an angle 1,200 feet into the air, if i did not have feather fall as a totemist i would be dead from the maximum 20d6 falling damage. after being humiliated in front of the after players and somehow managing to win because i got very ****** off at that point i just slaughtered the #$%@ i learned the character had an epic item he designed give to the character by his master, the character should not of been able to use the item being so powerful. he says because magic items are so common in his setting characters can use epic items without any worry. he is using his own currency system known as leisure token and he decides how much items are worth depending how unique they are, makes it difficult for us to generate characters for the campaign as we do not know how much with the leisure tokens. some characters are being given less such as my warforged because they do not need as many leisure tokens as other races, ironically he has never played a warforged, so a bit unfair judging it without playing one. Undead are a postal service so they are common and degraded, and dragons would have to be geas or put under a quest spell to be played. we have a new player in our group still getting to grips with the system, i have been moaned at to go easy on him as a new player and my other friends makes it more complex by making his character a half dragon, how hypocritical can you get. he goes on about all these feats and features available in his setting but he offers them only when they would come into use, saying what we could of gone for when it is a bit late. wow... that was a long rant, shows the frustration with someone running a campaign with their own rules without getting a grasp for the rules they are changing... to finish off AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!.... *takes deep breath* better ^_^
tuffn00gies 01-26-06, 06:45 PM	I complained once again about the Spellcraft rule and got yelled at for it. The DM told me that if I didn't like the house rules that were explained to me a long time ago, I could just leave. Well, I'm thinking of doing that. But it would be a damned shame because I haven't been in a group of serious gamers in years. And I have no idea if I'd ever find any others again. Don't leave. Do start playing something besides spellcasters.
aeous 01-26-06, 06:59 PM	when a dungeon masters says the line if you do not like the house rule then leave it has stopped being fun and become more about them being in control and having power, at that point something has gone very wrong
Hodo 01-26-06, 08:02 PM	I would think that you assume to play by the games rules and DM's houserules when you originally agree to play the game. If one has an issue with the rules of a game, it's best not to play in the campaign rather than join and then try to argue the rules in retrospect.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 01-26-06, 09:30 PM	When the DM begins screaming, about how he is becuase he is the DM. And I can either take it or leave, I take that as my cue to leave. D&D is co-operative game that should be fun for all, and not one child on a power trip.
Merlain 01-27-06, 02:13 AM	Kensai dosent need to have more than 1 level to fully enchant his weapons. Super broken. Sorcerer needs to learn spells from a wizard. What???
Gailbraithe 01-27-06, 03:08 AM	Knock doesn't disable traps. If a trap is sprung based on something opening, Knock will activate that trap. I would agree on that point, but only if there was no way to open the door/chest/closure safely. For example, if there is a puzzle box with a poison needle trap that only springs if the box is opened incorrectly, then I would rule that knock opens the box safely. Another example would be a door that unleash a spray of arrows if the key isn't inserted in the handle before turning. Knock would woudl not set off a trap likie that, because knock acts like the key. Knock is not a prybar, and it doesn't bash things open. Knock is the secret key that opens everything, and so I think if it is somehow possible to open a closure without triggering the trap (and there usually must be, unless the creator had no intention of ever opening the box), then knock does so. Also, if one closed the door/chest/box after casting knock on it, the trap would still be there, still armed, still waiting for the box to be opened incorrectly. Now if opening a box triggers a trap no matter how you open it - if the box is some evil Pandora's Box that unleashs a nasty monster or cloudkill when opened - then yes, knock would trigger that trap. Or if the trap was entirely seperate from the door - a pressure plate triggered deadfall immediately in front of a locked door - then it would still go off when you stepped on the plate. I can even imagine a trapped door that can only be knocked open. If, for example, the mechanisms for safely opening the door were concealed entirely in the door, and there was a booby-trapped handle on each side, then knock would be the only thing that could operate the mechanism, since it works at a distance. Well, open/close would work too, if the door was light enough, and not technically locked.
BadCatMan 01-27-06, 03:19 AM	Presumably the DM couldn't work out the rules about moving diagonally... So we could only move left-right, forwards-backwards. No angles. :confused: So that's two squares of movement needed to move one diagonal. It kind of rendered the 5ft-step useless. I think we ignored that one mostly, and just guessed a radius on larger movements.
Darkmatter20 01-27-06, 12:08 PM	OK heres an old one to bump the thread. OK so level 4 cleric casts bane against a group of 20 goblins and 4 wolves. Heres how it went. PC: I cast bane, its a DC~16 will save. DM: OK the wolves roll and they fail. Next the goblins roll and they all make it. PC: ?? You only rolled once. DM: yeah I don't want to have to keep track of which ones are at -1 or roll for all them so I'm only making one save for the lot of them. PC::rolleyes: ...........thats stupid. Roughly at least half of those goblins should be affected. DM: Fine we'll play it your way. And we did. So almost a case of a stupid house rule. Stop the maddness before it starts. :dancin:
Radijs 01-27-06, 12:15 PM	My DM has instituted a fumble policy on skills and attacks. The problem is that he doesn't tell us what the policy is. When we roll a natural one we are told to roll again. I have no idea what to add to that roll or what effect it has wether I roll low or high.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 01-27-06, 08:42 PM	OK heres an old one to bump the thread. OK so level 4 cleric casts bane against a group of 20 goblins and 4 wolves. Heres how it went. PC: I cast bane, its a DC~16 will save. DM: OK the wolves roll and they fail. Next the goblins roll and they all make it. PC: ?? You only rolled once. DM: yeah I don't want to have to keep track of which ones are at -1 or roll for all them so I'm only making one save for the lot of them. PC::rolleyes: ...........thats stupid. Roughly at least half of those goblins should be affected. DM: Fine we'll play it your way. And we did. So almost a case of a stupid house rule. Stop the maddness before it starts. :dancin: Actually a lot of DMs do that. I'm one of them. First off it saves time, rolling a d20 24 times is time consuming, and secondly as the NPCs move around the board it becomes increasing harder and harder to keep track of witch ones are witch, especailly 24 for them. If you don't believe me, you try it.
Rood_Inverse 01-27-06, 10:26 PM	Actually a lot of DMs do that. I'm one of them. First off it saves time, rolling a d20 24 times is time consuming, and secondly as the NPCs move around the board it becomes increasing harder and harder to keep track of witch ones are witch, especailly 24 for them. If you don't believe me, you try it. Ahh, you're halfway there. No, I'm not going to roll for 24 goblins and 16 wolves. That'd be insane. But I will roll once for the goblins and once for the wolves, because they're diferent groups. Different species, even.
Always-Late 01-27-06, 10:38 PM	Actually a lot of DMs do that. I'm one of them. First off it saves time, rolling a d20 24 times is time consuming, and secondly as the NPCs move around the board it becomes increasing harder and harder to keep track of witch ones are witch, especailly 24 for them. If you don't believe me, you try it.Nothing in this world more fun than seeing an entire room of mind flayers all fail the will save to a color spray on a natural one. I do this, but not to such an extent. I'll just break up the goblins into four groups and roll once for each of them.
UltimateReality 01-27-06, 11:28 PM	Ahh, you're halfway there. No, I'm not going to roll for 24 goblins and 16 wolves. That'd be insane. But I will roll once for the goblins and once for the wolves, because they're diferent groups. Different species, even. Um, that's what he meant dude. He didn't express it very eloquently but as I sit right across from him I know he rolls once for each group of creatures, and once for every creature that would have a unique save (leader of mooks, mirror party, etc.).
green_yawgmoth 01-28-06, 01:29 AM	Nothing in this world more fun than seeing an entire room of mind flayers all fail the will save to a color spray on a natural one. I do this, but not to such an extent. I'll just break up the goblins into four groups and roll once for each of them. That's what I do as well. If it's more than say 5, I'll break them into groups, usually no bigger than about 4-5, depending on how many creatures there are total. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Vaelan 01-28-06, 02:33 AM	This is the kind of stuff you can easily solve with a small amount of programming skill. Making a program to randomly generate X numbers between 1 and 20 and show you how many of those meet or exceed value Y is fairly easy and solves the problem quite quickly. Then simply use flat, circular tokens to represent monsters and place a small red gem counter on each one that is affected. I plan too extensively, don't I? To be slightly on-topic, my second edition DM came up with this gem of a houserule upon being introduced to third edition. Making a melee attack while flanked provokes an Attack of Opportunity... from both flankers.
tuffn00gies 01-28-06, 08:04 AM	Making a melee attack while flanked provokes an Attack of Opportunity... from both flankers. Even if the attack is against one of the flankers? I'd love to play a rogue in his game!
Githrex_Fraymoon 01-28-06, 12:48 PM	:hoppingma: Ok, usually in DnD I am the Dungeon master but suddenly, when we decided to call it quits for the day, one of my players, an eccentric rules lawyer who thinks if it's not listed in the book, I should make a rule for it. So, he announced he would DM since I was gonna call it quits. So, I left and let them be. The next day the player was having a campaign at their home making me think Wtf? From past experiences I knew he was a terrible dungeon master. So, I decide to roll my character before I come, sparing them some time. A 3rd Level Cleric of Gruumsh and a 2nd Necromancer with Book of Vile Darkness and Libris Mortis spells. So when I head over he lays down his house rolls once we are gathered. 1) All of the gods are dead, destroyed by a really powerful king person, therefore Clerics or Paladins Don't exist 2)Necromancy Doesn't Exist, therefore undead or necromancers don't exist 3)If you roll a 1 you are abducted by odd birdlike aliens where you undergo three trials, if you fail two out of three, you suffer an xp loss along with the roll of a 1. So I tried to work around this by asking if Clerics could be that of an alignment cause such as Chaotic Evil causes etc. He replies "Don't be stupid! Theres no such thing as alignments!" Ok that was a really odd thing for him to say. So then I ask "Could I be able to use necromancy labeled as some different form of magic?" "No" is his only response. So I slap down my 5th Character Level PC and say ok then, prepare to face the wrath of my 5th level commoner. We played through the first adventure, not fighting a thing and instead residing in a town of 2 or 3 residents without a home of our own. Also, there was a tavern that could fit 3 people at a time :confused:. So I went packing and so did my other players. We had just wasted an entire day to a horrible DM
hiryuu 01-28-06, 01:11 PM	<snip> I wander around in the woods alot. My uncle taught me to survive. Things like "snakes with this pattern are deadly" and "see this patch of mud that looks like it's all smooth? Don't go swimmig in that water unless you have a knife" were pretty high on the priority list (on a side note, gator's good eatin'). You'd think that "scaly and covered in hair can't be a lizardman, lizardmen don't have hair, it's probably a troll, get out your acid" was also pretty high on the adventurer priority list.
Gailbraithe 01-28-06, 01:45 PM	So I tried to work around this... You make a character without even knowing a thing about the campaign world, find out its not an appropriate character for the world, and immediately try to break the DM's campaign? That makes you an obnoxious player. A good player doesn't try to work around the DM's setting, he tries to work with the setting. You are the proverbial player who, upon hearing that the world has "NO ELVES!", immediately says "Can I play a Drow?" Honestly the DM's campaign sounds pretty crappy, but considering your actions, I'm guessing you deserve each other.
Twotall 01-28-06, 02:17 PM	3)If you roll a 1 you are abducted by odd birdlike aliens where you undergo three trials, if you fail two out of three, you suffer an xp loss along with the roll of a 1. WTF?!?!?
Darkmatter20 01-28-06, 03:42 PM	Actually a lot of DMs do that. I'm one of them. First off it saves time, rolling a d20 24 times is time consuming, and secondly as the NPCs move around the board it becomes increasing harder and harder to keep track of witch ones are witch, especailly 24 for them. If you don't believe me, you try it. Actually I do DM as well and have never had any trouble keeping track of upwards of 1-25 creatures and effects on them. In more extreme cases I use small markers behind the DM screen which represents the battle field in front of me. The markers represent any special conditions and while I only have a few different types of markers ( by markers I mean small pieces of card) I remember what each one is for this encounter. I also have these tiny micro die that I use for hit points. (My favourite big encounter was when the party was defending a v. small village against a gnoll army. Had several different attacks on the town when I had to keep track of ~ 20 gnolls and ~ 2 ogres.) But if your saving that a bunch of low level creatures as in our goblins who have a terrible save against X spell should make a single save. Now the only possible way they could all make it if it was if they rolled a 20. So a 1 in 20 to the power of 20 chance. So luck comes in and you roll one dice and get a 20. None affected? If your having trouble rolling large amounts of dice you could always just assume an average and let only one make his save. Instead of trying to remember the other 19 just remember the one that saved. So yes I do it regularly (although not so much now with all my college work cutting into DnD time) and its not exactly difficult. Like everything its just a matter of practice. This is the kind of stuff you can easily solve with a small amount of programming skill. Making a program to randomly generate X numbers between 1 and 20 and show you how many of those meet or exceed value Y is fairly easy and solves the problem quite quickly. Then simply use flat, circular tokens to represent monsters and place a small red gem counter on each one that is affected. I plan too extensively, don't I? You and me both :) Theres a bunch of programs for this already made too like that DM helper (forgot the name). But really its all about getting in to the swing of it. Do it once: hard Do it twice: easier Do it four times: easy Incidently I also keep track of my players hit points in combat and have a small list of their skill modifiers so I can roll spot and listen checks to let them roleplay more easily. Personal house rule of mine ( which I hope no one considers to extreme) We played with triple 20 =death for awhile when I DMed. I took it out and everyone was happy. I had killed three players with it. (Obviously I let them off, I did the rolling in front of them and getting hit by a triple 20 stray arrow is not much fun) Edited to add in stuff other people said.
Vaelan 01-28-06, 08:45 PM	Even if the attack is against one of the flankers? I'd love to play a rogue in his game! No, you wouldn't. You would die to the ridiculous chains of AoOs. If someone is both flanking and flanked, a single attack sets off a ridiculously long chain of AoOs, as AoOs are melee attacks and thus provoke AoOs if you are flanked. A battle where four people had Combat Reflexes caused us to ditch that rule, much to my delight.
CryoSilver 01-28-06, 09:04 PM	My old DM had this crazy way of assigning new spells that I totally don't understand to this day. Example: I was a lvl 8 wizard, but for some reason, I could cast level 6 spells. Huh? Totally gamebreaking when the fighter deals 30 damage in one round, but I disintegrate things. I asked him about it, but he was rather mysterious about the whole thing. Honestly, I don't think he quite knew what he was doing himself.
Always-Late 01-28-06, 09:58 PM	No, you wouldn't. You would die to the ridiculous chains of AoOs. If someone is both flanking and flanked, a single attack sets off a ridiculously long chain of AoOs, as AoOs are melee attacks and thus provoke AoOs if you are flanked. A battle where four people had Combat Reflexes caused us to ditch that rule, much to my delight.That hurts my brain. Okay, let me think. Two allies and two enemies with Dex 18 and combat reflexes all flanking each other. A1, A2, E1, and E2.So, A1 full attacks E1 E1 AoOs A1 in response. A1 AoOs E1 in response. E1 AoOs A1 in response. A1 AoOs E1 in response. E1 AoOs A1 in response. A1 AoOs E1 in response. E1 AoOs A1 in response. E1 out of AoOs. A1 AoOs E1 in response. A1 out of AoOs. E2 AoOs A1 in response. A2 AoOs E2 in response. E2 AoOs A2 in response. A2 AoOs E2 in response. E2 AoOs A2 in response. A2 AoOs E2 in response. E2 AoOs A2 in response. E2 out of AoOs. A2 AoOs E2 in response. A2 out of AoOs. A2's fourth AoO resolves. E2's fourth AoO resolves. A2's third AoO resolves. E2's third AoO resolves. A2's second AoO resolves. E2's second AoO resolves. A2's first AoO resolves. E2's first AoO resolves. A1's fourth AoO resolves. E1's fourth AoO resolves. A1's third AoO resolves. E1's third AoO resolves. A1's second AoO resolves. E1's second AoO resolves. A1's first AoO resolves. E1's first AoO resolves. A1's full attack resolves.And that's assuming the simplest possible format of taking AoOs (as soon as you can, assuming initiative for purposes of AoO went in the order A1 E1 A2 E2.) My brain hurts. I am so writing a computer program to simulate a combat with ten people in it.
tuffn00gies 01-29-06, 08:15 AM	No, you wouldn't. You would die to the ridiculous chains of AoOs. I beg to differ. I think I'm smart enough to flank without being flanked.
Darkmatter20 01-29-06, 09:42 AM	That hurts my brain. Okay, let me think. Two allies and two enemies with Dex 18 and combat reflexes all flanking each other. A1, A2, E1, and E2.So, A1 full attacks E1 E1 AoOs A1 in response. A1 AoOs E1 in response. E1 AoOs A1 in response. A1 AoOs E1 in response. E1 AoOs A1 in response. A1 AoOs E1 in response. E1 AoOs A1 in response. E1 out of AoOs. A1 AoOs E1 in response. A1 out of AoOs. E2 AoOs A1 in response. A2 AoOs E2 in response. E2 AoOs A2 in response. A2 AoOs E2 in response. E2 AoOs A2 in response. A2 AoOs E2 in response. E2 AoOs A2 in response. E2 out of AoOs. A2 AoOs E2 in response. A2 out of AoOs. A2's fourth AoO resolves. E2's fourth AoO resolves. A2's third AoO resolves. E2's third AoO resolves. A2's second AoO resolves. E2's second AoO resolves. A2's first AoO resolves. E2's first AoO resolves. A1's fourth AoO resolves. E1's fourth AoO resolves. A1's third AoO resolves. E1's third AoO resolves. A1's second AoO resolves. E1's second AoO resolves. A1's first AoO resolves. E1's first AoO resolves. A1's full attack resolves.And that's assuming the simplest possible format of taking AoOs (as soon as you can, assuming initiative for purposes of AoO went in the order A1 E1 A2 E2.) My brain hurts. I am so writing a computer program to simulate a combat with ten people in it. :mymy: :thinks: :gah:
Hasmead_Guy 01-29-06, 12:17 PM	If you want some horror stories, and I mean untold horrors, go to the DM board and click on the thread about "worst fights" at the game table. Holy moly, like nothing I'd ever imagined!! Anywho, I remember a DM who 1: Tried to incorporate Aoo into a 2nd edition game. Didn't really work 2: Gave me a 2nd level cleric in party of 7th level characters. No reason, he just did. 3: Didn't use the battle grid, yet still limited your movement. No tool of measurement, just arbitrarily decided when you should stop. 4: Tried to incorporate called shots into 3.0. He ignored some players' attempt to use it, and glorified others. 5: Made us roll initiative each round in 3.5. I know this is optional. I still hate it.
UltimateReality 01-29-06, 03:05 PM	Actually I do DM as well and have never had any trouble keeping track of upwards of 1-25 creatures and effects on them. In more extreme cases I use small markers behind the DM screen which represents the battle field in front of me.I just avoid having combat with 25+ creatures, unless the players do something really really stupid. ;) We also don't have a huge fig collection, so 10 goblins are often represented by....10 pennies. That can cause quite a bit of confusion, as you'd imagine. Incidently I also keep track of my players hit points in combat and have a small list of their skill modifiers so I can roll spot and listen checks to let them roleplay more easily.I can't decide whether or not to do this when I DM. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. It's incredibly helpful, but also time consuming.
green_yawgmoth 01-29-06, 11:52 PM	I can't decide whether or not to do this when I DM. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. It's incredibly helpful, but also time consuming.I don't keep track of it separately, nor do I roll for the players. What I do is give small (+/- 1-2) modifiers based on various things, and have the players roll. I also just have them roll listen/spot checks at random, so it could be a listen check to hear that squirrel in the tree, or it could be to hear the whistle of an arrow about to make close friends with their head. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Druidsrule 01-30-06, 10:11 AM	There was this one DM, he was alright. At least, I thought so until I played with him. He was the kind of person who not only favoured one player over the other, he'd go with Deux ex Machina, Leading the PCs by the Nose, PCs as Spectators, but thankfully not Preepting the Characters' Abilities. But we actually had a conversation like this: DM: "Okay, he grabs his greatclub and-" Player1: "You said he used shortswords." DM: "Shut up. He takes his greatclub and smashes the door." Me: "Doesn't he have to make a check to do that?" DM: "No." Me: "What? Why not?" DM: "Because he has 19 Strength." Me: "So do I, and I had to make a check last time I bashed a door in." DM: "You have 19 Strength? Let me see that character sheet..." He takes the character sheet. "Wait, your abilities are all too high! I'm putting your strength down to 15." Me: "What? We're using Point Buy..." DM: "No we didn't." Several Players: "Yes, we did, actually." DM: "For f*cks sake! I decide what happens in the game, I have the RIGHT to do EVERYTHING when you're in this apartment!" All Players: Leave without a word. DM: Screams like an adolescent on Halo2. Like that? BTW, his DMPC was a Level 40 Half-Orc Wizard. The rest? Level 4. That's right, FOUR.
GothWulf 01-30-06, 10:35 AM	Let me list one of my DMs, Said he wanted a 3.0 campaign (hates 3.5 with a passion because he thinks that the new spells are too weak yadda yadda) So I come in as a wizard, he explains that this is a low magic setting so it will be harder to find magic items, scrolls, etc. Annoying for me but fine, my character comes in as a prisoner of this tribe of orcs. I get found by the PALADIN, said paladin does not untie or free me, even though he sees no sign of detect evil, instead he hits me hard over the head and knocks me out. I called foul and he explained that since I was in the same camp as the orcs I could be evil and thus he needed to ensure that I didn't cause any more havoc. He then throws me onto his wagon hard enough to knock my character unconcious, then dumps the piles of treasure that he found from the orc encampment (all of it of course useful for paladins and divine characters only) dealing me more damage as it landed. And of course the paladin couldn't fall for doing things like this because I might be evil even though I didn't radiate any aura of evil or even show any sign of hostility. <SNIP> The paldin had a holy avenger, +5 suit of fullplate, a ring of shocking grasp that turned any weapon he touched into a shocking weapon, cloak of charisma +2 etc etc. This was the same person who *****ed at me when I ran games that I was favoring players when they got more bonus xp than he did for clever ideas and strategies, or if anyone ends up doing better than he is. Well....sounds to me like your DM was f*****g whoever was playing the palidin, whether they wanted ya'll to know it or not....thats the only time I have ever had something like that happen in any game I was playing in. Wulfe
GothWulf 01-30-06, 11:35 AM	Ok....suppose it my turn.....as a DM, I've only had, belive it or not, one argument about a house rule I made...and it was with my BF of all people....I made the house rule that the Evasion feat for you 1/2 damage if you made the save...Improved evasion got got you 1/2 automatically and 1/4 if you saved....well..needless to say, by Bf had a problem with that...<mainly because he had made his save and I said he still took damage>. His argument was that the Evasion feat means that you find something to hide behind.....my counter argument was "you are in a completely bare room and someone has cast fireball...what the f**k are you planning on hiding behind?...air!?!? LOL> Thats really been my only house rule...I've modified Evasion slightly....there HAS to be something in the room to duck behind THAT IS BIG ENOUGH TO COVER YOUR CHARACTER before I let it work the way as written....otherwise, forget it...you are going to take SOME damage. This has to do with my refusal to belive that a 4th lvl char. is somehow "twisty" enough to contort themselves between the flickering flames of a fireball to take no damage at all, but can't manage to make the roll to get out of the ropes that they are tied up with in a differnt instance....I prefer a bit of "realism" in my games.... Now...as a player "complaint" <I was gonna use the B word...but decided to keep it at least PG-rated...LOL>.....has anyone played in a game that was more like a script then a game? We played in a few games with a friend of ours <who thankfully doesn't read this board... :) > that were exactly that...didn't matter what game syatem he was running at the time....we tried D&D...Vampire...Hunter...ect....every single one of them he had the whole thing written out before hand and if you didn't go with his script he got mad. Finally we learned our lesson....which is why I never get to play anymore...<pout> LOL...I'm stuck running the games. Thankfully one of our friends has decided to run a game himself....the general consensus is that it will last 3 sessions but at least I'll get to play for a couple weeks before I have to go back to running things again...LOL Wulfe
The White Sorcerer 01-30-06, 01:27 PM	DM: "For f*cks sake! I decide what happens in the game, I have the RIGHT to do EVERYTHING when you're in this apartment!" Many a DM hath sealed his fate by uttering these words, or a variation thereof.
green_yawgmoth 01-30-06, 02:21 PM	DM: "For f*cks sake! I decide what happens in the game, I have the RIGHT to do EVERYTHING when you're in this apartment!" All Players: Leave without a word.And thus, he learned who really controls the game, and the power of rule -1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Surgo 01-30-06, 04:04 PM	I've modified Evasion slightly....there HAS to be something in the room to duck behind THAT IS BIG ENOUGH TO COVER YOUR CHARACTER before I let it work the way as written....otherwise, forget it...you are going to take SOME damage. This has to do with my refusal to belive that a 4th lvl char. is somehow "twisty" enough to contort themselves between the flickering flames of a fireball to take no damage at all, but can't manage to make the roll to get out of the ropes that they are tied up with in a differnt instance....I prefer a bit of "realism" in my games.... Because every time I'm walking down the street and I see an ogre, I sure as hell cast a magic missile at it.
green_yawgmoth 01-31-06, 06:37 PM	Because every time I'm walking down the street and I see an ogre, I sure as hell cast a magic missile at it. I know I never leave home without my cloak of cha +4, ring of protection +1, and a wand of vampiric touch. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Hodo 02-01-06, 12:16 PM	His argument was that the Evasion feat means that you find something to hide behind.....my counter argument was "you are in a completely bare room and someone has cast fireball...what the f**k are you planning on hiding behind?...air!?!? LOL> Thats really been my only house rule...I've modified Evasion slightly....there HAS to be something in the room to duck behind THAT IS BIG ENOUGH TO COVER YOUR CHARACTER before I let it work the way as written....otherwise, forget it...you are going to take SOME damage. This has to do with my refusal to belive that a 4th lvl char. is somehow "twisty" enough to contort themselves between the flickering flames of a fireball to take no damage at all, but can't manage to make the roll to get out of the ropes that they are tied up with in a differnt instance....I prefer a bit of "realism" in my games.... Evasion means you leapt/sidestepped/ducked/etc clear of potentially damaging effects. It does this to the best of it's abilites without moving the character out of the field of effect. Or else everyone who made a reflex save would instantly be moved towards the outermost edges of the area of effect's radius (which would make more sense if houseruled). An escape artist check is a skill, not the same as evasion and concerns how well your character can contort their body, rearrange joints, and other minute aspects of body control. It's not based on evasion. So it's perfectly reasonable for a person to be able to jump out of range of an explosion, or avoid a trap, but not be able to get themselves out of a straight jacket and vice verca. ........................................ ........................................ .... Concerning DMs I've met with wacky houserules... I had a DM that would change the rules of the game for bribes. One character was being especially silly and did something everyone warned him not to do, which got his character killed. The other players did not want to ressurect him, and the DM would not just reinsert him into the campaign... until he got 20 bucks. Another paid the DM 10 bucks so his small character could use medium sized weapons with no penalty.
Darkmatter20 02-01-06, 04:15 PM	Concerning DMs I've met with wacky houserules... I had a DM that would change the rules of the game for bribes. One character was being especially silly and did something everyone warned him not to do, which got his character killed. The other players did not want to ressurect him, and the DM would not just reinsert him into the campaign... until he got 20 bucks. Another paid the DM 10 bucks so his small character could use medium sized weapons with no penalty. Ouch extortion. Though I have to admit that as a DM I'm in a way open to bribary. PC1: Ok I attack the Orc with my greataxe. DM: NO, You DONT not UNtil... PC1: Huh I'll knock the orc around easy. DM: NOT UNLESS I SAY SO AND THERES SOMETHING YOU GOTTA DO FIRST OR YOUR CHARACTER IS SSOOO DEAD. PC1: Yikes what the..... DM: ....... (very placid).....can you move the jelly baby bowl over here, I can't reach it since you pulled it closer. PC1: oh....sorry. DM:...:munch:.....thanks. PC1: Ok I attack the ...... PC2: (holds up jelly baby) Whats funnier then a jelly baby in a microwave? :P DM&PC1: ? PC2: (Holds up second jelly baby) TWOo!!! jelly babies in a microwave!!!!! :P Table breaks down laughing. While this sounds immature we are in fact all students and this is perfectly acceptable behaviour. :D
green_yawgmoth 02-02-06, 11:01 PM	My GM in a different game lets us buy experience (or rather, the equivalent of xp in the game). 1xp costs 1 penny. We have had characters give him $20 before, just so they could have some points to burn that session. And it's never been unbalancing, which is pretty impressive. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Argon_Asimov 02-03-06, 12:33 AM	DM taking bribes = shot with hammer Really, why is this at all acceptable? I would walk right the hell out of a game where the DM did this, and I would send packing any player who offered it in my games. This violates utterly the trust between DM and player... you are larping chaotic evil if you do this.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 02-03-06, 09:48 AM	DM taking bribes = shot with hammer Really, why is this at all acceptable? I would walk right the hell out of a game where the DM did this, and I would send packing any player who offered it in my games. This violates utterly the trust between DM and player... you are larping chaotic evil if you do this. I'd say its more of a Lawful evil.
CéPé 02-03-06, 01:41 PM	A player once bribe me with a Lays Ketchup chips bag (a large one) in exchange for 500XP... I juste COULDN'T say no! Those chips were good too.:devil:
Mit Ratten Lebt 02-03-06, 01:59 PM	I bribe my players, as a DM. I tell them - We host D&D at my house and I provide the snacks. That way, I don't have to carry all my miniatures, etc around town.
Hodo 02-03-06, 04:59 PM	DM taking bribes = shot with hammer Really, why is this at all acceptable? I would walk right the hell out of a game where the DM did this, and I would send packing any player who offered it in my games. This violates utterly the trust between DM and player... you are larping chaotic evil if you do this. I don't really play with this group anymore. It should be noted that the DM wasn't being especially malicious. We're a lighthearted bunch and the player was just plain being goofy at the moment. When he died, the DM and players were tired of telling him to get semi-serious, and they were debating whether or not he would continue in this campaign. That's when he offered the DM 20 dollars along with a promise to straighten up, which the DM (and players) accepted. It became sort of a joke. It's hard to explain our mindset when we play. We all hang out together anyway, so when we play DnD, it's usually just one of many activities we take part in on a firday or saturday night. Not everyone there is playing in a campaign at any given time, and some people are doing other stuff like playing games or magic. The paying of 10 bucks for the use of larger weapons did kind of irk me though, but this was sometime after I had left regular gaming with the group due to scheduling conflicts.
green_yawgmoth 02-03-06, 05:09 PM	DM taking bribes = shot with hammer Really, why is this at all acceptable? I would walk right the hell out of a game where the DM did this, and I would send packing any player who offered it in my games. This violates utterly the trust between DM and player... you are larping chaotic evil if you do this. In any other game, yeah, it would be wrong. But in his game (and his own system), it's a levelless. And there's so many different things to buy up (point based system, with "xp" used to buy them up or add to your rolls) that 2000 would be like saying to your DM "I'll give you $20 if I can have +1 cha." That and it hardly ever happens. But I can completely see where you're coming from. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
green_yawgmoth 02-05-06, 01:19 AM	:bump: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Cataluna 02-05-06, 08:46 PM	Our Current DM's House Rules: (verbatim) 1. If you role a 1, you miss. Roll again. If you beat your own AC, roll for damage. No criticals. 2. If you beat the AC by exact count (i.e. AC=15, attack roll=15), deal 1/2 damage for awkward angle. 3. Slings do normal damage with small round rocks and get a +1 to attack and damage if bullets are used. 4. If you commit suicide, you cannot be resurrected by any means. You purposefully destroyed your body and the gods don't think you should have it back. You can now play a pixie barbarian. Congratulations. 5. Massive Damage Threshold = 75% of your total HP (rounded up). If this is dealt in a single blow, your HP drops to -1 and you're now bleeding. This CANNOT be used to raise you up to -1 if the hit took you below that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Granted, compared to some of the other stuff on this thread, these are by no means game-breaking or even really onerous... they do however, seem (to me) to be largely unnnecessary adjustments that complicate things rather than smoothing out wrinkles in the mechanics... Note the #3 allows you to have what are essentially +1 sling bullets at the rate of 10 per 1 sp. (Yes, I know slings are not the greatest weapon, but still...) Note also that I think #4 is more funny than annoying (and is also the result of another players stupidity in a past campaign), but I can also see situations where it could cause problems. Comments?
sneak_Blast 02-05-06, 09:29 PM	For the massive damage thing, what about at low levels? Example: Lvl 1 Party facing a few orcs. DM: This orc deals 6 damage to your rogue. (2d4+4) How much hp does your rogue have? P1: 8. DM: He dies from massive damage. P1: :eek: :eek: :weep:
RogueScribner 02-05-06, 09:33 PM	Our Current DM's House Rules: (verbatim) 1. If you role a 1, you miss. Roll again. If you beat your own AC, roll for damage. No criticals. Meaning that if you roll higher than your AC then you roll for damage against yourself? I could see this being okay, especially for characters will high ACs (meaning they probably are advanced characters and less likely to hit themselves). Are bonuses added to the "attack roll" or just straight on D20 v AC? 4. If you commit suicide, you cannot be resurrected by any means. You purposefully destroyed your body and the gods don't think you should have it back. You can now play a pixie barbarian. Congratulations. What if a PC heroically sacrifices himself to save the group? Seems a bit unfair. Also, sometimes a PC will attempt something and just have a really bad roll and die as the result. Does that count as suicide or are we talking intentional death? If it's only intentional, I come back to my original point: what if it was a heroic death? 5. Massive Damage Threshold = 75% of your total HP (rounded up). If this is dealt in a single blow, your HP drops to -1 and you're now bleeding. This CANNOT be used to raise you up to -1 if the hit took you below that. I can understand being stunned for a round or something to that effect, but losing all your remaining HP? What sense does that make? You should at least have the opportunity to try to save yourself after taking a blow like that!
bassist33333 02-05-06, 09:50 PM	Well this isn't necessarily a rule, but at one time in this one party, we had a druid, and she had recently obtained a boar. So, the first time she tells the boar to attack, it does and basically owns the enemy. He says "Okay...that thing is too powerful. I'm going to kick it down a couple levels to make it equal, kay?" She, obviously distraught over the situation, seeing as it would be awesome to have a familiar with an ECL level two above the current parties level (which it did, which was a fault of the DM's seeing as he had not noticed this when he was helping out with the character sheet for the boar). But I mean, he could have at least sat down and discussed it later, or done something in the game to take it away instead of just saying "Boar go bye-bye."
bassist33333 02-05-06, 09:54 PM	Our Current DM's House Rules: (verbatim) 1. If you role a 1, you miss. Roll again. If you beat your own AC, roll for damage. No criticals. Is that counted with dex and stuff? It seems kind of silly attempting to dodge your own attack, don't it?
Cataluna 02-05-06, 10:24 PM	Rule #1 includes all attack modifiers to the attack roll, and also includes all modifiers (such as dexterity bonuses) to your armor class. Rule #4 applies to intentional, non-heroic deaths. Why someone would do this is beyond me (bored with their character?). Other than that, I don't know what the DM's personal criteria for heroics are... Rule #5 actually produces a (slightly) friendlier effect than the official massive damage rules in that it drops you to -1 instead of killing you outright. However, the original rules allowed a Fortitude save to avoid the effect, and our DM has left out any chance of that for our characters (for now, at least... I asked about the lack of a save).
The White Sorcerer 02-05-06, 11:45 PM	If you commit suicide, you cannot be resurrected by any means. This makes sense. An unwilling soul can't be brought back, and why would a suicide committer be willing to return?
neilthrun 02-06-06, 12:33 AM	I have a DM who plays a 3.0/3.5 hybrid. Namely, we use the complete books but haven't updated to 3.5 core. And as such, somethings seem pretty ridiculous. The spell enlarge will indeed make a creature larger, but the creature will not benifit from any aspect of the size increase beause "The creature is not used its abnormally large size". So apparently, even though my weapons, mass, armor and everything else have increased because i'm not used it, even though everything scaled appropriately, I gain no grapple bonuses, reach, or increased damage die. Spells like Bears Endurance and Bull Strength are round per level. Gnomes lose all spell like abilities, but aparently there was no need to inform anyone of this until the second session. Bonus expiernce awarded for giving the dm a cigarette. Ridiculous, but always in our favor. So I don't complain.
Duvanok 02-06-06, 01:37 AM	2. If you beat the AC by exact count (i.e. AC=15, attack roll=15), deal 1/2 damage for awkward angle. :rofl: It's strange to think that this kind of crazy thinking actually makes perfectly logical sense in someone's head. Anywho, My DM recently went on a tyraid about how he's tired of people playing the same classes, using the same feats and weapons character after character. He's actually contemplating banning the Power attack feat tree as well as the greatsword. :confused:
Terraneaux 02-06-06, 02:51 AM	:rofl: My DM recently went on a tyraid about how he's tired of people playing the same classes, using the same feats and weapons character after character. He's actually contemplating banning the Power attack feat tree as well as the greatsword. :confused: Tough playing a fighter in this guy's campaign when he bans the one useful damage-output feat tree for a fighter.
RogueScribner 02-06-06, 03:22 AM	This makes sense. An unwilling soul can't be brought back, and why would a suicide committer be willing to return? Because they chose to die to save lives, not necessarily because they wanted to die?
Mock26 02-06-06, 03:29 AM	2. If you beat the AC by exact count (i.e. AC=15, attack roll=15), deal 1/2 damage for awkward angle. While would never use this rule, other systems (such as BattleTech Level 3 Rules) use this to represent a glancing blow. Some systems like to get realistic and take into account hit locations (head or arm or chest or leg or wherever) and if you are going to get that specific it is logical to take into consideration glancing blows. That being said, though, this rule is best applied to systems that have fixed damage numbers for weapons, such as BattleTech. So, I can actually understand the rule. I just don't agree with its application in the D&D world where random damage can represent a glancing blow (at least at early levels).
The White Sorcerer 02-06-06, 03:52 AM	Because they chose to die to save lives, not necessarily because they wanted to die? This is suicide we're talking about, not heroic sacrifice.
Surgo 02-06-06, 07:31 PM	While would never use this rule, other systems (such as BattleTech Level 3 Rules) use this to represent a glancing blow. Some systems like to get realistic and take into account hit locations (head or arm or chest or leg or wherever) and if you are going to get that specific it is logical to take into consideration glancing blows. True, but D&D isn't exactly weapon-specific. The weapons and armour as described in the PHB themselves are really just skins bolted down to an abstract system of a point scale as an afterthought to make things a little more player-friendly. I'm not sure why anyone even tries to begin to add their "logic" to this.
Shatteredtower 02-07-06, 02:40 AM	This is suicide we're talking about, not heroic sacrifice.If a king falls on his sword to make interrogation or demoralizing humiliation before his troops harder, it is suicide, but would the individual really wish to stay dead, given the choice of a safe return? If the king's shieldman, fearing what will happen to him at the hands of the enemy now that he's alone, ends his own life, it's suicide, but we have the same question. If you're surrounded on all side by wights or spectres, with no means of defending yourself and the full knowledge that you will become one of them if they drain you, running yourself through is suicide, not heroic sacrifice, but I still have the same question. If a person impulsively jumps from a great height and reconsiders on the way down (emotional impulses can be a real problem in times of great stress), would the soul be forbidden from returning? We've already got an indication that it might wish to do so, one that would come up in questioning by speak with dead. If your suicidal party found the afterlife was not the escape they were seeking after all, is there a chance the soul would leap at the chance for a second shot at life? If your suicidal parties were Romeo and Juliet, might they not want to be restored upon learning what really happened? Does learning the facts after the event ever change anyone's mind? If your campaign dictates that the gods will not allow a resurrection under particular circumstances such as these, that's your call, but otherwise the fact remains that even suicides change their minds. One could even make the case that the time out might be cleansing, removing all of the stresses (and possibly illnesses, which are incidentally cured by resurrection and the like) that drove one to such a choice and that there is cause to allow a soul to choose again.
HerbalTea 02-07-06, 09:05 AM	Hey its not the DM's fault! They are under the hot spotlight y'know :rolleyes:
HerbalTea 02-07-06, 09:09 AM	I'll Start this new thread off. Tom’s House rules 1. Will saves have been remapped to Charisma. Charisma is a character’s force of personality. s 2. Initiative is remapped to wisdom. If you have no clue about what is going on around you, others get to go first. 3. There shall be no arguing with the DM about rules during game play. Take it up with me some other time. If I was wrong you get 20xlevel in bonus XP, but if you are wrong, then you loose that much 4. There shall be no threatening the DM with physical violence. 5. There shall be no rolling of stats; 32-point buy is effect. 6. Roll-playing shall earn no bonus XP, role-playing shall earn bonus XP, and Out of Character stuff gets you -XP 7. The following books are banned- Savage Species and Anything from FR. 8. The following are banned from allowed books: Frenzied Berserker, and Anything the Character Optimization board can come up with, Including C.o.D.zilla, The Cheater of Mystra, Pun-Pun, and Ubur-mount, just to name a few 9. The Following are allowed with no resections: Anything Core, Anything Eberrion, the Complete Series, and the Expanded Psionics Handbook. 10. The DM must approve any Other Material, after reviewing it. 11. All Characters must have one-paragraph back-stories, and if you do not have one the DM will write one for you, and you must play by it. 12. Keeping an IC Journal will earn you bonus XP. 13. If you do not write an Item down, you lose it. This does not apply to Plot Items. 14. All Errata will be enforced. 15. You can make an On-hand purchase for any item worth less that 1/100 of your total gold. 16. As for Rule 8, the more exotic Character must a have a more detailed back-story. As a rule of Thumb, + one Paragraph per LA or Racial HD. This does not apply to Humanoids in the Monster Manual. 17. The DM has the right to hide or reveal dice rolls as he pleases 18. Players must roll on the battle mat and let the DM see it before grabbing it, or it is a natural one. 19. If it does not have a shown LA, and not a player race, you cannot play one. 20. If a Char dies or you want a new one, you can bring in a new one at the level of the lowest party member -1, counting either the newly dead Char, or the retiring one. 21. The DM reserves the right to use Rule 0, but only to simplify life, or for fun. 22. Any Comment is made In Char, period. 23. Meta-gaming is punishable by DM Wrath TM 24. Anytime you violate one of the above rules, a monster gains a level. 25. If you have a problem with the rules, Email the DM at [Email removed to Portect Gm] This DM is a bit power-hungry and arrogant dont ya think?
IceFractal 02-07-06, 02:24 PM	8. The following are banned ... Including C.o.D.zilla I was just looking at those houserules and I realized something - that makes no sense. The whole point of C.o.D.zilla is that it's just a normal Cleric or Druid, so unless those two classes are banned, neither is CoDzilla.
Deekin 02-07-06, 04:46 PM	This DM is a bit power-hungry and arrogant dont ya think? Not Really Tom’s House rules 1. and 2 have been taken our 3. There shall be no arguing with the DM about rules during game play. Take it up with me some other time. If I was wrong you get 20xlevel in bonus XP, but if you are wrong, then you loose that much. This was istuted becouse i had a player argure with me for a good half-hour after i have a big ass monster that was chasing them break a piller without a STR check. Breaking the piller would have no effect of gameplay, execpt to freak out the players, and he still argued. 4. There shall be no threatening the DM with physical violence. Football player + Dnd = bad 5. There shall be no rolling of stats; 32-point buy is effect. Supicous rolling lead to this. ( 1 player never had a score below 14) 6. Roll-playing shall earn no bonus XP, role-playing shall earn bonus XP, and Out of Character stuff gets you -XP Tries to keep them on task 7. The following books are banned- Savage Species and Anything from FR. We are not playing FR, and SS is just broken, and it helps stop Two-headed feral Thri-keen 8. The following are banned from allowed books: Frenzied Berserker, and Anything the Character Optimization board can come up with, Including The Cheater of Mystra, Pun-Pun, and Ubur-mount, just to name a few Codzilla got removed 9. The Following are allowed with no resections: Anything Core, Anything Eberrion, the Complete Series, and the Expanded Psionics Handbook. 10. The DM must approve any Other Material, after reviewing it. Keeps the broken down 11. All Characters must have one-paragraph back-stories, and if you do not have one the DM will write one for you, and you must play by it. Tries to get the roleplaying out. One of the players idea of a good backgroud is, a Monkey that grew up in sharn. 12. Keeping an IC Journal will earn you bonus XP. 13. If you do not write an Item down, you lose it. This does not apply to Plot Items. The players expect me to keep track of the goods they find. 14. All Errata will be enforced. Errata good 15. You can make an On-hand purchase for any item worth less that 1/100 of your total gold. 16. As for Rule 11, the more exotic Character must a have a more detailed back-story. As a rule of Thumb, + one Paragraph per LA or Racial HD. This does not apply to Humanoids in the Monster Manual. Helps stop the Feral Half-dragon insectal multi-armed Thrikeen that weilds spellfire. 17. The DM has the right to hide or reveal dice rolls as he pleases. DM's Screen 18. Players must roll on the battle mat and let the DM see it before grabbing it, or it is a natural one. Prevents cheating 19. If it does not have a shown LA, and not a player race, you cannot play one. Stops player from playing Realy wierd stuff. 20. If a Char dies or you want a new one, you can bring in a new one at the level of the lowest party member -1, counting either the newly dead Char, or the retiring one. Stops party from swiching out Chars every session 21. The DM reserves the right to use Rule 0, but only to simplify life, or for fun. 22. Any Comment is made In Char, period. cutts chatter 23. Meta-gaming is punishable by DM Wrath TM Metagaming with one player is rampant and bad. 24. Anytime you violate one of the above rules, a monster gains a level. 25. If you have a problem with the rules, Email the DM at [Email removed to Portect Gm]
Trarth 02-08-06, 08:56 PM	Deekin, you are a smart DM, but the only realy problem I see is the disagree 20xlevel and the rule about point buy, just watch what they roll, If they cheat they take a -2 ability drain(permanent) to their top three most vital scores. if they object then they obviously hate to loose.
green_yawgmoth 02-10-06, 05:08 PM	Well Deekin, I guess as long as your players are okay with it, those are fine. But I would drop the "no arguing rules during the game" thing, since a misinterpretation of the rules can kill a beloved PC. Maybe just make it "no *****ing about the rules when it makes no difference". Drop the +/- xp things; it just puts more pressure on the players to all play characters who are loud and have to make a comment about everything. What if I want to play a quiet, reflective monk? Or a character who only says something when he absolutely thinks it is necessary? Then I'm getting gyped. The "everything you say in IC" would make me walk, though. We're humans, we like to talk to our friends, and if I can't say anything OOC then my characters would all be making terrible puns and smartass remarks about pantsing the king, or whatever. I could understand instituting that rule for a session after the players got on a 20 minute tangent, but making it a rule for an entire campaign is just wrong. Remember, you're supposed to be playing with your friends, not babysitting or running a classroom. Metagaming punishments would make me walk as well. everyone's going to metagame at some point, even if it is small. If it's really big, just tell your player "your character doesn't know that" or "why is your character doing that with no provocation?" Some people don't even know what metagaming is, and accidents will be made. In fact, come to think of it, the list itself would probably scare me off. Any DM with >10 house rules usually has some kind of inferiority complex that is getting its exercise behind the DM screen. DM + control issues = flee. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
green_yawgmoth 02-10-06, 06:01 PM	Figured I might as well post my house rules, since I'm critiqing everyone else's. Everything in my box o' books is allowed, except for the BoED (unless you make a very good case for something out of it.) Please do not abuse this. I make no rules about your alignment, but please make a character that will get along with the other characters. I don't like having to deus ex machina why the other players don't put a dagger in your head and dump your body in the river. Leave IC comments IC, and OOG stuff at the door. PKing is fine so long as it is for clearly IG reasons, and please don't resent the other player for doing so. No twinkery. I don't care what you say, a half-fiend that wants to become a full demon and thinks he's all that and a bag of potatoes is an Inuyasha clone. If you have a problem, tell me at the first sign of it. If I ask if there's a problem and you say no, I will assume that you are having fun in the game. If I ask you if you're having fun, you say yes and there's no problems, and I find out you're complaining about my DMing behind my back, then you are out; since you are not having fun, you should not be playing. Character generation: 4d6 drop lowest, reroll 1s, roll 7 take the highest 6. Rolls will be made in front of me, on the table. Buy gear according to the DMG wealth rules. 2 paragraph minimum, 3 page maximum backstory. This is not hard; 1 paragraphof description and personality, 1 paragraph (or more) of your parents, notable achievements, and possible plothooks. I'll give you help if you ask. Above all else, the platinum rule: HAVE FUN. So what say you all? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Surgo 02-10-06, 06:46 PM	Can I play in your game? Sounds like you have a good, non-bacterial culture going on there. :P Something I usually ask to people who allow most books, though. Provided it isn't unbalanced, can players come up with some of their own stuff? I do this occasionally, when there just isn't anything in the books that fits (doing this right now, playing a soulknife I hammered out with my DM that's more like the 3.0 soulknife).
Makuya 02-10-06, 07:15 PM	Sorry if I'm asking in the wrong place, but what is CoDzilla??
Surgo 02-10-06, 07:31 PM	CoDzilla is just a regular, plain old cleric or druid.
green_yawgmoth 02-10-06, 09:21 PM	Can I play in your game? Sounds like you have a good, non-bacterial culture going on there. :P Something I usually ask to people who allow most books, though. Provided it isn't unbalanced, can players come up with some of their own stuff? I do this occasionally, when there just isn't anything in the books that fits (doing this right now, playing a soulknife I hammered out with my DM that's more like the 3.0 soulknife).Provided that it's not unbalanced, I'd allow it. But if it does become unbalanced, don't be surprised when I send a sunder master with an adamantine greatsword, or something of the like to... correct things. ;) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
The White Sorcerer 02-10-06, 09:49 PM	No twinkery. I don't care what you say, a half-fiend that wants to become a full demon and thinks he's all that and a bag of potatoes is an Inuyasha clone. What if the player had never heard about Inuyasha? My house rules, since nobody seems to be posting their DM's house rules much: Keen and Improved Critical stack. That's the only change, all others are just rules about where to roll your dice and such.
green_yawgmoth 02-10-06, 10:36 PM	What if the player had never heard about Inuyasha? My house rules, since nobody seems to be posting their DM's house rules much: Keen and Improved Critical stack. That's the only change, all others are just rules about where to roll your dice and such.Then I'd ask the character what kind of personality the character will have, and if s/he describes anything like Inuyasha's, then the character is banned under rule #2. Oh yeah, imp. crit and keen stack in my games too, but I figured that one was obvious based on my sig. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
The White Sorcerer 02-11-06, 01:54 AM	Then I'd ask the character what kind of personality the character will have, and if s/he describes anything like Inuyasha's, then the character is banned under rule #2. Harsh. I've always had a deep dislike for "No Clones" rules, because they can prevent a player from playing the kind of character he wants to.
green_yawgmoth 02-11-06, 05:04 PM	Harsh. I've always had a deep dislike for "No Clones" rules, because they can prevent a player from playing the kind of character he wants to.The only real reason for the "no clones" rule is that I like my players to put in a little thought when building a character. I don't like my players feeling like they have to play a certain part; I like them to be able to decide for themselves how their character would act. Also, a lot of the twink targets are surly loners, arrogant asses, or otherwise not team players. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Archangel62 02-13-06, 05:43 PM	After going through games with Drizz't, Jaraxle, Entreri, and Elminster clones I can easily sympathise with you, trust me. It doesn't help that some of my players throw fits when I run if any NPC is stronger than them or if I explain to them that being a PC doesn't mean that you become a king for killing monsters and that not every deity is going to swoon over you.
Darkmatter20 02-14-06, 04:04 AM	A post somewhere else on these boards reminded me of another from a DM. DM's who use Diplomacy and Intimidate to control player actions. DM allowed a will save with the roll as the DC. Example "ok *NPC* tries to dipolamcy you into worshiping his god make a will save, you fail, you now worship his god with all your heart" yes and it really was just a diplomacy roll. That DM really railroaded all the time. Worst bit was that was my first DM, looking back he didn't actually know how to play DnD at all and just came up with rules on the fly. To quote " I don't use the DMs guide I hate the stuff in there" he never owned a DM guide book, read it, or even read the players hand book. All monsters were out of his head and usually had some video game weakness ( i.e. can only be injured by one weapon, only vurnerable to one spell) that was the only way to kill them. Player favouritism was also rampent with fighters being loved and any caster class being hated. For example DCs varied on who you were. This also varied alot as well based on how the DM was feelling. Level 60 god stats DMPC that followed us everywhere. Though he DMPC may as well have been leve 1000 as he could do anything, at all. Super mega evil all powerful god that knew everything and showed up all the time that was basically the DM's character. He also began to show a major depressive streak and began to take it out on the players. (Those of you who somehow remeber my previous posts in the last "Ridiculous house rules..." thread yeah it the same guy but I'm partly posting to start this thread up again.) Don't play in that game anymore and DM myself when I have the time. Problem is that the players that use to play with the DM also have no idea how to play now, always asking for DCs for simple things like a jump check for a 5ft gap on normal ground because they're used to DCs changing all the time. As another note, and what caused me to post here, that DM is trying to start a game up again, trying to get me to play too. Not sure what to do, on the outside he seems to be doing better person-wise (lets face it lots of people go through phases sometime in their life). On the other hand I'd don't want to subject myself to that again. Will probable try one or two games and see how it goes. Think that probablely the best thing. Don't think its going to go well though. Anyone else had any DMs like this and did they actually manage to pull themselves together?
UltimateReality 02-14-06, 07:22 PM	" I don't use the DMs guide I hate the stuff in there" :rofl: That was awesome. Thank you.
green_yawgmoth 02-14-06, 09:36 PM	As another note, and what caused me to post here, that DM is trying to start a game up again, trying to get me to play too. Not sure what to do, on the outside he seems to be doing better person-wise (lets face it lots of people go through phases sometime in their life). On the other hand I'd don't want to subject myself to that again. Will probable try one or two games and see how it goes. Think that probablely the best thing. Don't think its going to go well though. Anyone else had any DMs like this and did they actually manage to pull themselves together? I would tell him that before you will agree to game with him, you want a guarantee that he has read the PHB and DMG cover to cover to cover to cover, that he will not show ANY favoritism, that there will be no DMPCs, and that he will submit to taking a DM test before the game. I'm sure we could conjure up 10 relatively simple questions for him to answer that would prove he knows what he's doing. Hell, I can probably come up with 10 questions, if you want. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Mentar 02-15-06, 02:01 AM	Actually there is a fairly good DM test here, under the RPGA heading I believe. Each time you take it there will be different questions, and the final score gives you book and page numbers where you can find the answers. This test does include some common DCs and such, as well as skill/feat usage questions. The only real problem is that it requires an RPGA number I believe. Still it is a good way to test your knowledge, or your DMs knowledge in this case.
Free1983 02-15-06, 04:17 AM	I have the same problem. A good friend of mine was my DM two years ago. After a few months he moved out of the city so we didn't really got to play with him anymore. Last year he visited us and told us he had a nice adventure prepared; We're all happy, but when he arrives he says: "to hell with the D&D system. the rules make no sense. So I've created my own system". Nothing wrong with that, except that you haven't a clue what is going to work and what will fail. Especially magic; you tell him what you want to do with your magic; he rolls several dices (without explaining) and says something like. You fail, but instead of fly you now fall upward uncontrolled. Lucky me i was in a church with a roof. Anyway, he now moved back in our city and plans a campaign with his system. It seems like he has thought it over again, but i'm still not quite sure what to do. Just felt like sharing
Mentar 02-15-06, 04:54 AM	One DM I played under had a fairly simple house rule that some people on these boards would find quite annoying. Most charisma based skills would not be rolled but must be acted out instead. Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and sometimes even Gather Information checks would not be used, instead you would have conversations in character to determine the success or failure of these skills. Gather Information would still be used for finding out who might know about something but gaining the information was conversation based. As to people wanting to run thier own systems, I have been working on one for almost two years now, it's harder then I thought, but I will not even begin playtesting it without giving all the players a copy of the rules, including the DC equivalents for skills, and getting some form of feedback. I have had one person who was actually interested and took the time to go over my rules, this has led to more revisions preventing actual testing as of yet.
green_yawgmoth 02-15-06, 11:50 AM	Actually there is a fairly good DM test here, under the RPGA heading I believe. Each time you take it there will be different questions, and the final score gives you book and page numbers where you can find the answers. This test does include some common DCs and such, as well as skill/feat usage questions. The only real problem is that it requires an RPGA number I believe. Still it is a good way to test your knowledge, or your DMs knowledge in this case. From what I've heard, the RPGA test is just a large pile of esoteric questions that only test your ability to use an index, but I've never looked into it so I wouldn't know. http://www.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Hodo 02-15-06, 12:23 PM	From what I've heard, the RPGA test is just a large pile of esoteric questions that only test your ability to use an index, but I've never looked into it so I wouldn't know. http://www.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif The ability to effectively use an index, or recall many rules from memory is a very important skill for a DM to have. Not that creativeness and other things aren't important, but not spending time fumbling through books, or engaging players in debates because neither of you fully remembers the rules means less discussion of rules, and more immersion into the game.
Darkuwa 02-15-06, 04:19 PM	heres my houserules, they work well so far. Anything from a book you own can be used with approval. 4d6 reroll 1’s drop the lowest 6 times for stats. Max starting gold. Regain con + level worth hp for a nights rest. Reach weapons besides the spiked chain can be used in adjacent squares at a -2 penalty to hit, or as a double weapon and normal penalties with the back end being d6 bludgeoning. Natural 1 counts as -10, if that would give you something less than 1 then something bad happens, so a level 10 fighter will not botch an attack. If I’m looking up a rule don’t tell it to me, I want to look it up. Repeated offence can result in wrathing. New characters start at the multiple of 5 below the lowest characters level. (eg lowest character is 8 you start at 5 lowest char is 11 you start at 10) Monks can be true neutral. I must watch your hit dice roll. Do not play annoying characters. If you want to be a drunken dwarf fine but don’t go crazy with it. Don’t play gnomes or kender. These aren’t rules but playing such a character will draw the DM’s ire. Staffs are changed. They don’t use charges. Several changes to their price and creation have been made to keep them in balance Paladins will not lose their powers as long as they believe what they are doing is good. You can gain one of the “Half-“ templates by not leveling for the amount of levels = to the LA and then taking a day to perform a ritual. Extra feats: Dual wield Prerequisites: 2-weapon fighting, weapon focus(chosen weapon) Use: You may use 2 of the chosen 1 handed weapon and count the offhand one as light. (eg. wield 2 longswords and count the offhand one as light) Special: Can be taken as a fighter bonus feat. You can take this feat multiple times, each timeit applies to a different weapon. This feat cannot be taken by Drow.
OneSidedDice 02-15-06, 06:41 PM	Natural 1 counts as -10, if that would give you something less than 1 then something bad happens, so a level 10 fighter will not botch an attack. "Something bad" is called missing. Why do people feel compelled to use critical fumbles? If you do stick with them, you should codify what "something bad" really means. These are supposed to be house rules, right? Rules should be specific. If I’m looking up a rule don’t tell it to me, I want to look it up. Repeated offence can result in wrathing. Why? Isn't it better that I can just tell you Tumble can't be used untrained rather than waste several minutes of gameplay while you look it up? Obviously you'll want to verify some things for yourself, but making this an absolute seems unnecessary. Threatening your players seems rather uncool, too. New characters start at the multiple of 5 below the lowest characters level. (eg lowest character is 8 you start at 5 lowest char is 11 you start at 10) Why will a level 15 party only recruit level 10 replacements, but a level 16 party will recruit level 15 replacements? Do not play annoying characters. If you want to be a drunken dwarf fine but don’t go crazy with it. Don’t play gnomes or kender. These aren’t rules but playing such a character will draw the DM’s ire. If they aren't rules, why are they listed in your house rules? Isn't it just better to say to your players "no gnomes or kender" rather than "you're going to pay if you play a gnome or a kender"? Why are all gnomes and kender annoying, anyway? (Okay, I can see the point with kender...) Staffs are changed. They don’t use charges. Several changes to their price and creation have been made to keep them in balance You should be specific here. I'm assuming you haven't posted all the price and creation changes since that would be a bit too intensive for a house rule list. I'm still a little leery of this, though, because it's likely to make staves either ridiculously broken (unlimited usage of some pretty powerful spells) or unfeasible to obtain (the price and creation requirements will have been pushed up so high that it's just not worth it to even try). Paladins will not lose their powers as long as they believe what they are doing is good. There aren't words strong enough to express how bad this one is. Aside from the fact that D&D uses an absolute alignment system, so whether or not a character believes he is doing good is immaterial, you're going to run into situations like, "Well, my paladin firmly believes that each of those children was possessed by a demon, so killing them was good. No, I can't lose my powers. It says right there, I keep them as long as I think I was doing good." You can gain one of the “Half-“ templates by not leveling for the amount of levels = to the LA and then taking a day to perform a ritual. I'm not sure I'd ever take this option, since you essentially gain absolutely nothing for, say, four levels while the rest of your party is advancing around you, and then get some bonuses at the end of those levels. I'll take the class levels, thanks. Extra feats: <snip> An arguably better feat already exists in Complete Adventurer. I assume the drow clause is to prevent Drizzt clones.
Always-Late 02-15-06, 09:30 PM	There aren't words strong enough to express how bad this one is. Aside from the fact that D&D uses an absolute alignment system, so whether or not a character believes he is doing good is immaterial, you're going to run into situations like, "Well, my paladin firmly believes that each of those children was possessed by a demon, so killing them was good. No, I can't lose my powers. It says right there, I keep them as long as I think I was doing good."And that's why Eberron totally roxxors. Mm. But really, I don't think that's too bad of a rule, so long as you don't have really stupid players.
Darkuwa 02-15-06, 11:51 PM	"Something bad" is called missing. Why do people feel compelled to use critical fumbles? If you do stick with them, you should codify what "something bad" really means. These are supposed to be house rules, right? Rules should be specific. My players like critical fumbles, they think it adds something. Usually they drop their weapon or have an AoO but never do they have they're weapon break. I like to leave it open ended because it depends on the situation. Why? Isn't it better that I can just tell you Tumble can't be used untrained rather than waste several minutes of gameplay while you look it up? Obviously you'll want to verify some things for yourself, but making this an absolute seems unnecessary. Threatening your players seems rather uncool, too. Sometimes I do just ask what the rule is but any time there is a discrepency I like to look it up. This rule was meant for if they keep argueing their side. Why will a level 15 party only recruit level 10 replacements, but a level 16 party will recruit level 15 replacements? Because I prefer an arbitrary number to lowest -1. Just a personal preference like all house rules. If they aren't rules, why are they listed in your house rules? Isn't it just better to say to your players "no gnomes or kender" rather than "you're going to pay if you play a gnome or a kender"? Why are all gnomes and kender annoying, anyway? (Okay, I can see the point with kender...) All the gnomes and kender I have played with have been annoying but you could play an not annoying one, to just ban the race is too broad a rule. Don't play an annoying character is a rule. Don't play a gnome or a kender are the most common I see. You should be specific here. I'm assuming you haven't posted all the price and creation changes since that would be a bit too intensive for a house rule list. I'm still a little leery of this, though, because it's likely to make staves either ridiculously broken (unlimited usage of some pretty powerful spells) or unfeasible to obtain (the price and creation requirements will have been pushed up so high that it's just not worth it to even try). I like Raistlins staff from dragonlance. Light at will featherfall once per day or so. A wizards staff should be personalized and your right its hard to get a balance between overpowered and too expensive. Heres what I have so far: A wizard may add spells to his staff throughout his career. Doing so costs money and exp depending on the level of the spell and how often it can be cast. Spells in the staff use your current caster level when used not when created. 0 level spells count as .5. 1 per week: 25x spell level exp and 125x spell level gold 1 per day: 50x spell level exp and 250x spell level gold 2 per day: 150x spell level exp and 750x spell level gold 3 per day: 200x spell level exp and 1000x spell level gold At will: 500x spell level exp and 2500x spell level gold There aren't words strong enough to express how bad this one is. Aside from the fact that D&D uses an absolute alignment system, so whether or not a character believes he is doing good is immaterial, you're going to run into situations like, "Well, my paladin firmly believes that each of those children was possessed by a demon, so killing them was good. No, I can't lose my powers. It says right there, I keep them as long as I think I was doing good." If I gave him an inclination that they were possesed then he would be fine. If they player is just slaughtering innocent children for the fun of it, hes not going to lose his powers hes going to be kicked out of the game. I assume maturity in my players. I'm not sure I'd ever take this option, since you essentially gain absolutely nothing for, say, four levels while the rest of your party is advancing around you, and then get some bonuses at the end of those levels. I'll take the class levels, thanks. Its just an option you don't have to take it. I've had the option in my last 3 games and out of about 13 people 1 person used it, so just cause you wouldn't take it doesn't mean its a worthless rule. An arguably better feat already exists in Complete Adventurer. I assume the drow clause is to prevent Drizzt clones. It was just a feat I thought of while I was walking to class one day, if its redundant oh well. and yes the drow thing is for drizzt clones and was just to keep people from shouting I was going to end up with them in my game. So while your input was a little helpful, please next time don't be so antagonistic.
Duvanok 02-16-06, 01:34 AM	heres my houserules, they work well so far. Anything from a book you own can be used with approval. 4d6 reroll 1’s drop the lowest 6 times for stats. Max starting gold. Regain con + level worth hp for a nights rest. Reach weapons besides the spiked chain can be used in adjacent squares at a -2 penalty to hit, or as a double weapon and normal penalties with the back end being d6 bludgeoning. Natural 1 counts as -10, if that would give you something less than 1 then something bad happens, so a level 10 fighter will not botch an attack. If I’m looking up a rule don’t tell it to me, I want to look it up. Repeated offence can result in wrathing. New characters start at the multiple of 5 below the lowest characters level. (eg lowest character is 8 you start at 5 lowest char is 11 you start at 10) Monks can be true neutral. I must watch your hit dice roll. Do not play annoying characters. If you want to be a drunken dwarf fine but don’t go crazy with it. Don’t play gnomes or kender. These aren’t rules but playing such a character will draw the DM’s ire. Staffs are changed. They don’t use charges. Several changes to their price and creation have been made to keep them in balance Paladins will not lose their powers as long as they believe what they are doing is good. You can gain one of the “Half-“ templates by not leveling for the amount of levels = to the LA and then taking a day to perform a ritual. Extra feats: Dual wield Prerequisites: 2-weapon fighting, weapon focus(chosen weapon) Use: You may use 2 of the chosen 1 handed weapon and count the offhand one as light. (eg. wield 2 longswords and count the offhand one as light) Special: Can be taken as a fighter bonus feat. You can take this feat multiple times, each timeit applies to a different weapon. This feat cannot be taken by Drow. Well, I was going to say that this thread is about posting crazy houserules that your DM has come up with. However, after reading your house rules, I'd say most are crazy enough to be posted here. Congratulations.
darkkhaine 02-16-06, 10:10 AM	the most annoying thing my dm does and i think its a "old school" train of thought is that everything must be rolled. examples you have been attacked at night, the person on watch tries to wake up the warrior in the party (warrior roll to see if u wake up) i want to restring my bow "i have bowyer skill" (roll to see if you can do it) i want to order a drink (roll to see if you get the bartenders attention) its just completely annoying after awhile
Clawhound 02-16-06, 10:39 AM	There are house rules, genre rules, and crazy rules. House Rules - Your game group has come to an opinion on how something works, and you agree to change something to suit the group. Example: the group likes crit fumbles, or is mature enough to handle more exceptions. Genre Rules - The DM makes rules changes so that the game better reflects his idea of the world. For example, there's no gnomes, the world is low-magic, or the fireball hasn't been invented yet. Crazy Rules - These are rules created based on the opinions and crusades of the DM. For instance, turning D&D into a video game, or exercising power-trips. They make sense to the DM, but aren't implemented for the benefit of the group or the benefit of the atmosphere.
Lord_Dragonbane 02-16-06, 12:30 PM	I don´t have much to complain about. I have been fortunate enough to have good DMs. One of them has been and is VERY strict on the rules. It is either by the book (to the letter) or not at all. Not that I complain. He´s skilled. There was ofcourse the DM who lwt limbs be chopped off for any roll over 15... I only played one session with him though.
Darkmatter20 02-16-06, 12:40 PM	I don´t have much to complain about. I have been fortunate enough to have good DMs. One of them has been and is VERY strict on the rules. It is either by the book (to the letter) or not at all. Not that I complain. He´s skilled. Yep theres a lot worse things then a strict DM. But by the next sentence I think you've got that idea :) [/QUOTE] There was ofcourse the DM who lwt limbs be chopped off for any roll over 15... I only played one session with him though.[/QUOTE]
green_yawgmoth 02-16-06, 09:20 PM	The ability to effectively use an index, or recall many rules from memory is a very important skill for a DM to have. Not that creativeness and other things aren't important, but not spending time fumbling through books, or engaging players in debates because neither of you fully remembers the rules means less discussion of rules, and more immersion into the game.Wouldn't using the index and flipping through the book be considered "fumbling though books" anyways? Also, the reason I figured having a test to give him on the spot would be better, since he could make sure his DM knows the most basic of the rules offhand (like "what's the base attack bonus of a 6th level fighter" or somesuch). http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Archangel62 02-18-06, 02:09 AM	I still think it was funny how one of my DMs would be really arbitrary with treasure, not to mention how well it worked. The druid on VoP still had a ton of magic items and other stuff because the DM said that there were tables of what a player was supposed to have for minimum gold per level and that it was within that range. :mad: Then of course the fact that the bard had better armor than the mainline fighter for about oh..86% of the game, then add in that the secretly evil cleric (Priest of Vecna, claimed to be a pantheist Cleric) got all the orbs of dragonkind plus a super artifact that amplified them to all sorts of hell...Yeah that was an annoying game.
OneSidedDice 02-19-06, 06:45 AM	Well, this is more griping about the DM than his house rules, but here goes...This is going to get very long, by the way. This particular DM liked to use the "if you haven't written it on your character sheet, it doesn't exist" rule discussed above, but his enforcement of it always seemed to be more of an opportunity for him to lord his position over us than to genuinely encourage us to keep better track of what we were each carrying. For example: "I'm carrying the potion we took off that thief, so I'll dri--" "Did you write it on your sheet?" "No, I--" "IT DOESN'T EXIST UNLESS YOU WRITE IT ON YOUR SHEET!" "Okay, I--" "YOU HAVE TO WRITE IT ON YOUR SHEET OR ELSE IT DOESN'T EXIST! NO POTION FOR YOU!" Of course, he didn't bother to enforce this rule on himself when I pointed out that we would be able to catch an orc thief wearing hide armor because it reduced his speed, whereas 3/4 of the party wasn't burdened by armor. "Oh, he's wearing leather armor, then." On the subject of items, he'd get pissy if we didn't make use of the custom magical items he so generously provided us with. After IDing our loot from busting up a few ruffians, we turned up with a quill that could cast explosive runes 1/3 days, a pipe that could cast a glyph of warding 1/day, and a ring that could cast haste for 1/3 days. The group discussed our finds and decided to sell all the items, at which point the DM variously accused us of being idiots, ungrateful, or metagaming. For example, when I said, "Well, we should sell the pipe. I can't imagine being able to cast a glyph of warding is really going to be useful to us, since we're usually going to be on the offensive, not the defensive." "Metagaming! That's metagaming! You as the player are making assumptions about the situations I as the DM will place you in!" "Uh, no. That's my character making assumptions about the kind of jobs he's going to take." He was also incredibly **** during character generation. We started the game at 4th level, so our characters naturally had to have some kind of history behind them to explain how they became 4th level. I wanted my CG character to be an escaped slave who was sold into slavery because he defended a family from slavers. The family got away, but he was captured and eventually managed to stage an escape. "No." "What? Why not?" "I like the PCs to be heroes in the game, not before it." "Okay, fine, I got to 4th level by killing rats." "Okay." "I was being sarcastic." "Oh, damn, that would've been cool!" No, he wasn't being sarcastic. He also tried to railroad us pretty badly. During the above-mentioned instance with the thieves, we encountered a distinctly scarred orc in full plate who delayed us until the thieves could get away. After we gangraped him for a few dozen points of damage (at 4th level), he disappeared. Later on, we were selected to guard a wealthy nobleman's house during a pre-wedding banquet. The ranger, barbarian, and cleric were all selected to patrol the grounds outside the mansion, and I was offered a choice as to whether I wanted to stand guard indoors or outdoors. "Well, I guess all my friends are outside, so I'll go stand guard out there, too." "Uh...too bad, they put you inside anyway." "Why'd they even bother asking, then?" Obviously there was something I had to see inside the mansion. :rolleyes: So later on in the evening, an orc dignitary shows up, and surprise surprise, his set of scars would seem to indicate he's the guy we were beating on earlier. I'm playing a CG character with a Wis of 8 or so, so I tumble right past the noble's bodyguards and inform him that one of the thieves who stole his daughter's wedding dowry has just walked into his hall. I rolled a 30 Diplomacy to do this, by the way. "Do you have any proof of this?" "I do, m'lord. My companions and I all saw this man, and we would be more than happy to submit to whatever truth-revealing magics you might wish and swear he's the one." "Well, then...Get out of my house!" Because if he'd actually detained the thief, that would've also derailed the train. :rolleyes: It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that the next day we're assembled and sent by that noble to go hunt the thief down and retrieve the stolen goods, even though I told him the night before that the thief was in his house . So, the four us of strike out, and with the help of our ranger, we catch up to the thief in not too long. Once he realizes he's being pursued, he promptly turns around and butchers the three orcs that make up his entourage, which causes him to grow to large size while being covered in some kind of black ooze. We find this odd, but we rush forward and start to brawl. We deal several hundred points of damage to this guy. At 4th level. The DM is telling us that his wounds are healing up a little bit, but we figure this is just a small amount of fast healing, not enough to shrug off 20-40 points of damage each round. He's also calling for us to make Spot checks, which we're consistently failing. Eventually, we notice that he's wearing amulets that don't seem to be covered by this black ooze, and the DM says one of the amulets looks similar to the amulets carried by the ranger and the barbarian. Now, there's something you have to realize about these amulets: The DM told the players their characters had been carrying them all along a few days before this session. According to the players, he basically just said, "Oh, by the way, your characters have been carrying these amulets for a while. They don't radiate magic and they don't appear very valuable. You've just been carrying them." Eventually the cleric gets knocked out, so the barbarian and I retreat from melee with the ranger covering us with his bow, and we turn to run. The orc doesn't show any signs of perishing any time soon. The DM has been making comments like, "This is so obvious..." the entire fight. Maybe you guys can figure the solution to this combat out? No? Well, here it is. The barbarian got a healing potion down the cleric's throat, at which point the DM took his player out of the room. The cleric's player came back and said, "Okay, guys, Apollo came to me in a vision and said Zeus says the amulets are the key." So, armed with this knowledge, we reengaged the orc and the barbarian sundered the amulet off the orc's neck (which the DM had to rule 0, since the barbarian was wielding a spiked chain, which deals piercing damage, and you need a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to sunder). The cleric then donned the amulet, and once three of our party members were wearing the amulet, we could hit this guy on AC 10, he wouldn't recover anymore hit points, and we gained fast healing 3. Yeah. Apparently the correct logic in this situation is as follows: 1) Notice the orc is wearing an amulet similar to the amulets two PCs mysteriously "grew" between this session and the last. 2) Make the connection that this amulet must be worn by the party 3) Sunder this amulet off the orc, despite the fact that the only PC carrying a weapon that can legitimately make a sunder attempt is the cleric, who does not have the improved sunder feat 4) Wear the amulet, granting us the ability to hit it on AC 10 Oh, and it turns out this barbarian was a 9th-level orc barbarian. The black ooze granted him fast healing ~15 or so. I would like to remind you once again that we were level four. The next session, the barbarian's player informed the DM he wanted to sell the amulet. "I don't really have any idea where it came from and it doesn't radiate magic, so I want to see how much I can get for it." "Okay, you're out of the campaign, then." "What?" "You're out of the campaign. The campaign is telling a story, and if you're going to pull that kind of BS, the story is going to move on without you."
The White Sorcerer 02-19-06, 07:12 AM	"You're out of the campaign. The campaign is telling a story, and if you're going to pull that kind of BS, the story is going to move on without you." The correct response: "If you're going to pull that kind of BS, the players are going to move on without your story."
On_the_wings_of_TPK 02-19-06, 11:35 AM	The nineth level orc barbarian was wearing full plate? Did this guy even bother with a phb, or a dmg? Not my cup of tea...
Always-Late 02-19-06, 01:52 PM	The next session, the barbarian's player informed the DM he wanted to sell the amulet. "I don't really have any idea where it came from and it doesn't radiate magic, so I want to see how much I can get for it." "Okay, you're out of the campaign, then." "What?" "You're out of the campaign. The campaign is telling a story, and if you're going to pull that kind of BS, the story is going to move on without you.""Wait, so if we don't do what you want, we're out of the campaign? Why don't you just run our characers for us, then?" "Out." "Yeah. And if you keep trying to pull that 'I'm God sucks to your free will' crap on us, the story is going to move on without us." Everybody gets up and leaves.
Rab-Ka-La 02-19-06, 01:56 PM	Here are some I remember from a guy I played with in 3e. 1 ) Elves are all gay, that is why they are a dying race. ( no half elves ) Really prejudiced ex military guy 2 ) Elves must be role played with a french accent. Dwarves with an Irish accent. Again, prejudiced ex military guy. 3 ) Electrum pieces are the primary currency. Just had some odd fascination about electrum I guess. 4 ) Divine spell-casters don't prepare or pick spells in advance. Divine spell-casters make a standard action prayer any time they want a spell. The gods will decide if they can have the spell. Divine spell-casters power varied greatly depending on DM's mood. 5 ) PC's can fall to -10 hp plus con modifier before truly dying. NPC's die at -1 hp. capturing npc's for questioning and such was nearly impossible, even subduing usually had them dying 'accidentally'. 6 ) Characters become scarred for life if they fall below -8 hp. This was a common occurrence involving loss of abilities. 7 ) Players can not kill their own character. Many tried due to rule 6. 8 ) There is no neutral in the alignment spectrum. He said Neutral just didn't make sense. People always have a tendency toward one or the other. 9 ) Listed magic item values are just the suggested retail price. Magic item value varied greatly depending on DM mood and what the item was. Of course sold items were always lucky to bring in a quarter of their value, while buying things would be astronomical. 10 ) There are 10 days per week. 40 days per month. 10 months per year. His attempt at world creation. No one could remember the stupid names, nor did they care. Some I remember from the last guy I played with very briefly... 1 ) Characters can gain one feat per level. They gain the feat by killing something. What you kill must have the feat you want or one is randomized from those available. My half elven ranger had: fly by attack, multi dexterity, improved grab, brew potion, cleave, weapon focus orc-fullblade, and something else i can't remember. 2 ) "Pay the sage." Reminding players of rules ( like telling somebody to cast on the defensive), 'Metagame knowledge' ( like burning a troll - even if you had lots of knowledge ranks), etc. would cause a 10% reduction of found treasures. 3 ) Raise dead and resurrection don't exist. All reincarnate spells are DM's option. Kobolds, urd, gully dwarves, mongrelfolk, etc. were common. 4 ) All natural one's are a critical fumble. Like throwing your weapon into the party spellcaster behind your character.
The White Sorcerer 02-19-06, 02:26 PM	1 ) Characters can gain one feat per level. They gain the feat by killing something. What you kill must have the feat you want or one is randomized from those available. My half elven ranger had: fly by attack, multi dexterity, improved grab, brew potion, cleave, weapon focus orc-fullblade, and something else i can't remember. I nominate this as the most ridicilous house rule yet on this thread.
green_yawgmoth 02-19-06, 03:32 PM	I nominate this as the most ridicilous house rule yet on this thread.I'll second that. It's kinda like blue magic, but with feats! Now I wanna make a blue mage PrC/core class. Yes, I know there's probably 50 in the classes board. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
RogueScribner 02-19-06, 03:57 PM	Well, this is more griping about the DM than his house rules, but here goes...This is going to get very long, by the way. <snip> "You're out of the campaign. The campaign is telling a story, and if you're going to pull that kind of BS, the story is going to move on without you." I don't usually say this type of thing, but your DM is a power-hungry idiot. Why any of you subject yourselves to his style of play is beyond me. All of you need to talk to him and nip this in the bud now or just leave. It doesn't sound like any of you are having any fun. I know I would have called **** a long time ago and if the DM wasn't attempting to make amends I'd bail. No game is worth sitting through crap like that. And that last quote just makes my blood boil. :mad: :mad: :mad:
Sssargoth 02-19-06, 04:41 PM	Well, this is more griping about the DM than his house rules, but here goes...This is going to get very long, by the way. <snip> "You're out of the campaign. The campaign is telling a story, and if you're going to pull that kind of BS, the story is going to move on without you." I believe the following quote is appropriate here. Your DM has joined the growing group of "DMs who need to be shot. In the Face. With a hammer.http://www.geocities.com/sphyre_san/smile/shoothammer.txt
Rivelstraz 02-23-06, 02:28 PM	I'm not going to be original I'm afraid, but I've played with the typical DM that... ...has a super NPC "helping" (I call it ruining) us. ...changes rules each round depending how it can benefit him. ...is famous for cheating, both as DM and player. ...blatantly favours some players over the other players. ...invents new rules on the way. Etc. If he was not a good person, he was even worse DM. PS: Yes, we still played with him, we were a bit "RPG hungry" at that time.
TheNox 02-24-06, 01:47 PM	1. argue with the dm and you will be shot liturally (with an air pistol) 2. "rolling is a Privilege not a right"
The White Sorcerer 02-24-06, 02:21 PM	1. argue with the dm and you will be shot liturally (with an air pistol) Return the favor. Shoot your DM. In the face. With a hammer.
TheNox 02-24-06, 03:15 PM	lol
Rab-Ka-La 02-24-06, 08:13 PM	1. argue with the dm and you will be shot liturally (with an air pistol) 2. "rolling is a Privilege not a right" In the late 70's / early 80's I played with a DM that said that also. He had a little toy gun that shot yellow rubber bb's. He used it until one of the players got angry. The player grabbed it and threw it at him, breaking it against the wall as it missed. He then started throwing tennis balls at players. Not everyone had dice back then, they were not available as they are now. If it was an important roll, we could approach the DM's table and roll his dice.
speeblefreak 02-24-06, 08:49 PM	1. argue with the dm and you will be shot liturally (with an air pistol) 2. "rolling is a Privilege not a right" :twitch: I would be on my way out the door before this DM finished speaking.
green_yawgmoth 02-24-06, 10:11 PM	:twitch: I would be on my way out the door before this DM finished speaking.I think I would die from laughing before the DM could finish that rule. It's so absurd it's hilarious. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
feartheinvinceblehamster 02-25-06, 09:29 PM	So now I'm trying to decide if I should ask him to leave my game, in which he's a player. Because really, being called names because I know the difference between the words "open" and "unlock" is a bit more than I can stomach. IMO, try just banning or horribly nerfing his favorite spell/item/weapon/feat/skill, and just say it's "Almost as disturbingly unbalanced as the Knock spell"
feartheinvinceblehamster 02-25-06, 09:46 PM	1) All of the gods are dead, destroyed by a really powerful king person, therefore Clerics or Paladins Don't exist In my campaign world, The gods left, except for two who disappeared. The lack fo gods shoudln't destroy a campaign in itself, you just have to find equivelents. In my campaign, it's the witch and the exorcist, two classes, one is a basic SOR using spell list from DMG, and the other is a new class that fights best against demons. But "Killed by really powerful kign person they could've deleted from existence quite easily" is not a valid reason for lack of deities. And why the heck isn't necromancy there? IMO, I would've just...dude, i don't even know what I would've done. I apologize for the double post
rockondon 02-26-06, 04:10 AM	- I had a cleric purchase hollow tip arrows and when I tried to cast 'fire trap' on them the DM refused it, stating that a character in medieval times would never think of such a complex concept. When I showed him the elves handbook where they casted the same spell on clay bulb tipped arrows, he said that only elves were allowed to have fire trapped arrows, and the concept of casting that spell on arrows could not be learned by other races. He went on to say that different races never intermingled, they were jealously territorial, and he put severe restrictions on which races were allowed to purchase which weapons/armor - apparently only dwarves can wear plate mail, only elves can wear chain mail or wield a long sword, etc etc. - I had a DM who LOVED the deck of many things. That item would appear in every adventure, and each time it would do one of two things to anyone who used it 1) Their character would be dead/imprisoned or 2) Their character would recieve huge benefits that made the party badly imbalanced. In either case, the game would be ruined. When we decided not to use the deck when we came across it, the DM decided that the deck had a magic property that compelled us to use it. - Another DM introduced himself with a lecture on how he hates playing games where the DM makes every person in town some high level adventurer. He dictated that that was very unrealistic, and made it very clear that the people in his towns would be farmers, merchants, and the like. The very first person that our 1st level party meets (a drug dealer in a tavern) was a 9th level thief, and nearly every contact we met (including regular streetfolk) were of similar level. - I also have had DM's that add their own massively overpowered NPC's to the party. - I had a DM that would repeatedly confront the party with beligerant NPCs that were ten levels higher than necessary to kill the entire party. These NPCs would provoke, insult, and injure party members - yet they had nothing to do with the campaign other than to satisfy some twisted DM's ego.
green_yawgmoth 02-26-06, 02:12 PM	Rockon, please tell me that these were different people. I cannot accept that one person could hold that much stupid. Especially the first one; "you qwouldn't think of that"? WTF? That's the worst excuse for a DM railroad I've ever heard. http://www.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
SokenzanMarauder 02-26-06, 02:14 PM	4 ) All natural one's are a critical fumble. When I DM I use that rule. To a lesser extent. If its a 1 handed weapon (shortsword/mace) you lose your next turn trying to get back into combat. If its a 2 handed weapon (greataxe/greatsword) you get to make an attack agains a fellow PC within 5 feet of your character. I had a player that I swear would critical miss just to wack fellow PCs. Good times. Lets see. Worst one I ever had to deal with was a DM that created a DMPC and wouldn't let me or the other player (my little brother) watch him roll his stats. Kinda odd that the lowest one was a seventeen. So yeah, we don't play with him anymore. -Gene
Zombayz1 02-26-06, 10:32 PM	.... *dies*
rockondon 02-27-06, 01:13 AM	Rockon, please tell me that these were different people. I cannot accept that one person could hold that much stupid. Especially the first one; "you qwouldn't think of that"? WTF? That's the worst excuse for a DM railroad I've ever heard. they were in fact all different DM's, although a few of them included massively overpowered npc's in the party. What fun it is to spectate while the DM's npc kills everything. - I had one DM who catered to his buddy way too much. Buddy would split off from the party and seek his own battles (this is a death sentence when I'm the DM) and racking up experience and repeatedly finding just the right magic items he needed while everyone else waited patiently for their turn to play. The encounters which should have been a challenge to the whole party were suddenly downgraded enough for buddy to survive and rack up mass exp to surpass us in levels and more magic items then the rest of the party combined. - Although this example might not fit the thread very well it is imo a good example of bad DMing. A dwarf in the party was knocked into a coma for a week. The pc that controlled him left the room while we discussed what to do with his character. We took advantage of the reprieve by bathing yon extremely stinky dwarf, as well as having someone groom him. The groomer inadvertantly trimmed off too much of his beard. Anticipating furious dwarven rage, my pc bankrupts himself to have a magical silver mirror created, emblazoned with images of moradin and enchanted with a permanent illusion that would make the dwarf see himself in his usual smelly, long-bearded reflection. I await his awakening from the coma with great anticipation for hilarious role playing. The guy comes back in the room to play and his dwarf comes out of the coma. My character waits expectantly with his magic mirror. DM: You come out of your coma Dwarf: Okay DM: Do you feel your beard? Dwarf: ??? Dwarf: uh, now that you brought it up yeah I guess I will. DM: It's about 6 inches shorter. You're enraged. ....The dwarf never even got a chance to look at the mirror. so much for role playing :rolleyes:
Sric_Tyran_Rinfaf 03-01-06, 07:06 PM	bump
Darkmatter20 03-06-06, 03:11 AM	bump
Archangel62 03-19-06, 04:10 AM	I recently had a conversation with the DM I've mentioned earlier. (He's the one who basically nerfed all casters that weren't paladins being run by people he catered to heavily) He asked why I didn't show up at games anymore and I told him that I had nothing agaisnt him personally but I did not want to play in or run games with him anymore. When asked why this conversation ensued: Me: Well, there are a few things. One of them is the fact that you tend to get really really angry anytime anything goes wrong. You almost had a conniption when I reminded you about the changes from 3.0 to 3.5 in terms of what spells did and how long they lasted. Him: Well, like I said before the transition royally screwed over casters and I don't think that it was fair. You should have modified the old spells to fit in the new game rather than force me to switch over to that weaker crap. Me: (Sigh) The other reason is that when you run you seem to base all of your npcs and scenarios on nerfing our abilities and keeping us from really using any of our abilities to their full potential. Him: Well, yeah, I have to. You guys make such cracky characters it's the only way that I can maintain control of a game. Besides that, I shouldn't have to let your unstoppable characters run over everything. (It's worth noting that in his games we had almost 2-300,000 gp by around level 8) Besides, you've done the same thing. Me: Really? When have I done that? Him: When we faced the Necrocarnum Zombie Trolls. Me: I said I was sorry about the mixup, I thought it had said that they got an energy resistance if the essentia was invested, I had mixed it up with something else. I redid it and I apologized to you for it. Him: That's not what I mean, they were way too powerful for our party to deal with. Me: You guys were around 9th level, they were over 100 feet away from you down the corridor, you guys could have run away if you felt threatened. That and you took them out with your fireball. Him: That's not the point, what was their CR? Me: Off the top of my head I think 5 or 6 Him: That's waaay too low, you should have realized that they were too strong and adjusted. Me: I disagree with you there, but we'll agree to disagree. Besides, from what the others have said I doubt that you'd want me back at the games anyway. I heard from pretty much everyone else there that you threw a fit because I missed that session. I called and let everyone know, I don't have your number so I couldn't tell you and I figured that spending time with my girlfriend was more important than game. Him: Well, the thing is this, when I started this group I wanted people that were really proper hardcore gamers. Not the casual players who only show up once in a while, I mean in 3 months you missed 3 sessions. I want guys who, if they have to, will run someone over to get to game. I realize that you're a full time student and that you have a girlfriend and whatever other responsabilities, but I need commitment from my players. He left after that and yeah....I needed to vent.
ank 03-19-06, 10:59 AM	Think about it: Is it really as bad as auto-failure? Also, skill checks do not have auto-successes and -failures. You treat 1 and 20 like any other rolls unless noted otherwise. Im sorry if this has already been corrected (i dont have that much time to read them all) but rolls of 1 and 20 do NOT affect the skill by adding or subtracting 10 or with auto-failure. This only works when making attack roll for a critical hit or critical miss.
ank 03-19-06, 11:33 AM	My turn to vent. I used to have one of the worst dms of all time. He had trouble knowing the rules and simply invented them. He has later learned (a bit) but still is not my ideal image of a dm. let me explain: This was the first game that I had ever playd in and i jumped right in with everyone else as a level 1 sorcerer. The other classes were about one fighter, a ranger, one paladin or another ranger (i forgot), and the one person i did know there was a wizard. It was ok at first but nobody bothered to RP at all. The real trouble started when i tried to cast my spells. It was a fairly even encounter and i tried to use the magic missile spell. The DM ordered me to roll dice percentage; i needed a 75% or higher to succeed a simple MM spell. WHAT IS UP WITH THAT!? this rule just kept being a constant pain. My friends, the wizard, had taken the identify spell but kep failing the accursed percentage roll. He would end up using 5-15 rounds trying to identify a single item.
DarknessEternal 03-19-06, 04:36 PM	My friends, the wizard, had taken the identify spell but kep failing the accursed percentage roll. He would end up using 5-15 rounds trying to identify a single item. If that's true, your DM was actually making you more powerful: Identify Divination Level: Brd 1, Magic 2, Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 hour
Archangel62 03-20-06, 01:57 AM	I think he meant more that it took 15 attempts to make it work
Coren 03-20-06, 04:05 AM	Coren's Houserules (the crowd cheers) -point buy -turn undead as in the CD -I will tell the races allowed before the game starts (normally a couple weeks before) -Keen and Imp. Crit stack. The with one your threat range doubles, with two your crit multiplier increases by one. -I don't like 1/2 races. Normally I replace 1/2 orc's with full orc's and 1/2 elves with elves. -Just because the MM says that a mob is a certain allignment doesn't mean that what they are in the world. -I've taken out the multiclass and allignment restrictions on monks and pallies. Pallies are now more knights with a different spell list. Smite Evil becomes Smite. -You can bribe me all you like, probably won't work though. :D
HerbalTea 03-20-06, 04:18 AM	Foolhardy houserule: SR is replaced with will saves - targets are no longer permitted saving throws - its just a will save...
Radijs 03-20-06, 05:13 AM	Not really ridiculour perhaps but still a rather unfortunate houserule: Normally only nat. 20's autohit a target. The DM has expanded this rule by saying that every threat rolled also adds a +10 bonus on the attack roll. I'm going to prepare a backup char in case the current one passes away and try to get it a abominable threat range.
Bluewings 03-20-06, 01:39 PM	Ths might seem weird but we play a game with no xp at all, not a joke im a item crafter geek and his answer to my item creation is: well you lose permanent hit point equivalent to 1/50 of the xp cost, IM A WIZARD !!!!!!!! :mad:
Surgo 03-20-06, 07:23 PM	So you lose 100 hp every time you cast Wish? What an idiot.
Pangeon 03-20-06, 07:45 PM	1. argue with the dm and you will be shot liturally (with an air pistol) 2. "rolling is a Privilege not a right" We had to impliment rule number two in the campaign I'm in for one player. All she (note: DM's girlfriend. Also really ADD.) is CONSTANTLY playing with the dice, stacking them, jiggling them, ocasionally eating them. (Tangent: one of our other players, who's our teacher, ate Play-Doh during one of the sessions. It, quote, "wasn't as good as she remembered it.") The DM also has two sets of dice that she constantly mixes up, to the DMs displeasure.
green_yawgmoth 03-20-06, 07:56 PM	Im sorry if this has already been corrected (i dont have that much time to read them all) but rolls of 1 and 20 do NOT affect the skill by adding or subtracting 10 or with auto-failure. This only works when making attack roll for a critical hit or critical miss. IMC, skill checks are open ended - a 20 gives you a reroll with a +20, and a 1 gets you a reroll with a -20. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
ConclaveKing 03-20-06, 08:33 PM	My DM sucks! Wait, I'm the DM! AIEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Archangel62 03-29-06, 03:41 AM	I figure I need to confess that I was a bit of jerk, also inexperienced when I started DMing. I readily admit that I screwed up alot when I started, I was the only one willing to DM, that and I had the most books so I guess that it came from the reasoning of he with the most books does the DMing. I will honestly admit that one group I fell in with cured me of it quick. However they had some odd quirks themselves, Manos: The die of fate for example As well as the character sheet eating incident And who can forget a session in which these words are uttered, "Well... as far as I can tell after you threw stumpy into the fires of hell and left him there for those millenia he returned as a pit fiend, interestingly he came out as a masochist..." They were very odd times.
lycanthrope0 04-13-06, 01:43 PM	OK heres an old one to bump the thread. OK so level 4 cleric casts bane against a group of 20 goblins and 4 wolves. Heres how it went. PC: I cast bane, its a DC~16 will save. DM: OK the wolves roll and they fail. Next the goblins roll and they all make it. PC: ?? You only rolled once. DM: yeah I don't want to have to keep track of which ones are at -1 or roll for all them so I'm only making one save for the lot of them. PC::rolleyes: ...........thats stupid. Roughly at least half of those goblins should be affected. DM: Fine we'll play it your way. And we did. So almost a case of a stupid house rule. Stop the maddness before it starts. :dancin: my group does that a lot as well but the DM asks if we care or not when the groups are large like that and we allways roll for groups around 4-5 and ussaly anything under 10 one of are crazy house rules i think is rather common after a high level game skill checks fail on a 1 always and always succed on a 20 just so after a qhile things like tumble concentration and what not that have max DC ( if played correctly) have some chance of failure the crazies rule i have come across is the lack damage thresh hold save because it slows down higher level games when you have to roll every time ( which nerfs all fighting clasess a lot) and slows down combat. i disagree and i also think the check needs to be fixed to be a challange at all levels for all clasess instead of 15 for al levels
OravennasBrother 04-13-06, 05:15 PM	THe worst offender was a DM who disagreed with interrupting casting and made it impossible to disrupt spellcasting. Even after I inquired about using a held action to interrupt I was told that it was not "Realistic" :confused: to allow spellcasting to be disrupted. Naturally I started Grappling Spellcasters - for the rest of the evening beore I left the campaign for good (that particular DM had ~ 80 pages of house rules, all designed to give Wizards and Psionicists a "Much Needed" power increase)
speeblefreak 04-13-06, 07:56 PM	This is an annoying and nosensical houserule my DM has: you can only speak 6 syllables per round. :pbbbtt:
speeblefreak 04-13-06, 08:00 PM	Im sorry if this has already been corrected (i dont have that much time to read them all) but rolls of 1 and 20 do NOT affect the skill by adding or subtracting 10 or with auto-failure. Um...that's what I said.
zlatko 04-13-06, 08:32 PM	Not to quote OravennasBrother, Bluewings, TheNox, ank, Archangel62 and a few others, but especially TheNox on the pistol thingy; If I'd stayed long enough for him to actually finish, my response would be in the manner of; If I break both your arms, you have the privilege of rolling a d20 to see if your mom would come and wipe your a** every time you made a peep. C'mon, shooting people, even with an airgun? Id shove it up where the sun don't shine.
rudie 04-13-06, 10:35 PM	my friend hates to DM, and when he has to run a pick up game hes a jackass, but we still love him for example: making sure we don't have any ranks in swim, then making the enire game aquatic... putting a lvl 13 sorcerer against an elder black dragon (though I kicked its ass with spirit wall...best spell ever) paralizing the enire party but 1 person eh hes a fun kid...we always ruin his plans to destroy his players hahmy friend hates to DM, and when he has to run a pick up game hes a jackass, but we still love him for example: making sure we don't have any ranks in swim, then making the entire game aquatic... Putting a lvl 13 sorcerer against an elder black dragon (though I kicked its ass with spirit wall...best spell ever) paralyzing the entire party but 1 person eh he’s a fun kid...we always ruin his plans to destroy his players hah
rockondon 04-14-06, 04:12 AM	my friend hates to DM, and when he has to run a pick up game hes a jackass, but we still love him for example: making sure we don't have any ranks in swim, then making the enire game aquatic... putting a lvl 13 sorcerer against an elder black dragon (though I kicked its ass with spirit wall...best spell ever) paralizing the enire party but 1 person eh hes a fun kid...we always ruin his plans to destroy his players hahmy friend hates to DM, and when he has to run a pick up game hes a jackass, but we still love him for example: making sure we don't have any ranks in swim, then making the entire game aquatic... Putting a lvl 13 sorcerer against an elder black dragon (though I kicked its ass with spirit wall...best spell ever) paralyzing the entire party but 1 person eh he’s a fun kid...we always ruin his plans to destroy his players hah for some reason which I can't identify, I get a sense of deja vous when I read this post.
lunacy05 04-14-06, 05:22 AM	Although this has been said before... From the Iron Kingdom game which i recently quit as i had enough of the way the GM handles it. ....favors some of the players whose characters he like (A half contruct paladin Aasimar with a huge celestial warhorse that doesn't need to return to the celestial planes, the gun mage that deals 60D6 damage at level 14 and the GM gave him a +10 epic cloak of charisma) ....kills players whom didn't roleplay much (New players that's new to RPG so to speak) ...allows the player who handles the half construct paladin to kill innocent folks. ....encourages his favorite players to powergame and pitting us with challenges 2-3 times stronger than those who don't powergame. ...because the group has 9 players, the GM separated the group in order for him to easy management. So he separate his favorite players in one group and the ones he didn't like in a another group. ....informs the players not to be late but failed to inform us the players that he's late for 3 hours while we patiently waited for him (He and the half contruct paladin were hanging out) ...still uses version 3 rules because the GM and his favourite players love the rules of powergame.
grubby 04-19-06, 09:14 PM	Where to start on my DM's wacked out rules. No upgraded magic items, you want something better such as moving from a +1 weapon to a +3 you have to buy a whole new weapon. Armor max dex bonus applies to EVERYTHING include ranged attack rolls. Can't use items to reach preq. for anything. -4 AC when using ranged weapons. Double the price of any item that affects stats, such as an iuon stone of +2 str cost double what the suggested retail price is. And now for 1 I convinced him to correct, to my surprise. To him 5ft reach meant only attacking the square in front, back or the sides of you. You didn't even threaten the corner squares. There may be more but I don't find out about them untill I read the RAW about things I question.
Coren 04-20-06, 02:04 AM	No upgraded magic items, you want something better such as moving from a +1 weapon to a +3 you have to buy a whole new weapon. Armor max dex bonus applies to EVERYTHING include ranged attack rolls. Can't use items to reach preq. for anything. -4 AC when using ranged weapons. Well, the first 3 are pretty much RAW and the last one is a holdover from ADaD. Perhaps you can get him to change his mind on the -4 to AC if you tell him that is not a rule in 3.5.
Archangel62 04-20-06, 02:27 AM	The item thing isn't technically against the rules, but I can see the reason for banning that one, if for no other reason than to avoid problems of figuring out which feats and abilities work in and out of anti-magic zones, ditto for dipellings and junk like that. The first one though is a bit odd, the idea of not being able to buy enhancements for your item seems a tad wrong. Weapons and armor can be enhanced, you just have to find someone to do it. His reasoning is probably to keep you guys on a more even power level in his mind in terms of what you have available to you.
Calestin Kethal 04-20-06, 04:35 AM	I only have one GM house rule that bothered me. I usually play a straightforward spellcaster. Fireball, lightning bolt, and the like tend to be favored spells. Simplicity appeals to me. After several games of enemies were immune/highly resistant to my standard spells, I decided to prep a few Summon Monster spells for variety, and possible tactics changes. So for the first combat for the day, I cast Summon Monster III for a small fire elemental. Mid fight the elemental was killed, but the combat went easier. A couple in game days pass and I keep SM III prepped. Next combat I whip out SMIII for another small fire elemental. The GM says nothing happens. I roll with it. After the combat was over I ask if the spell was blocked or something, since none of my other spells were affected for the rest of the combat. He explains that he has a house rule. I had read the 1 page of his house rules and agreed with them, but I didn't remember anything about summoned creatures. He explains that he didn't write it down in the list I read. The rule went something like this: When you summon a creature you always get the same one, or if summoning more of a lower level, the same set. But if a summon creature is killed (instead of spell duration ending or being dismissed) it couldn't be summoned for a year and a day. So since my small fire elemental had been killed I couldn't summon one until the time had passed or I could use Summon Monster IV. And if I cast SMIV for small fire elementals, and rolled a 1 on my 1d3, I wouldn't get anything since my #1 fire elemental still couldn't be summoned. But if I rolled a 2, I would get 1 fire elemental, and so on. He was unwilling to change the rule in any way. The person who was about to bring a druid specializing in conjured creatures into the game scrapped his character and made a rogue. No one has used summoned creatures in his games ever since. (Which may have been his goal, though we rarely used them anyway.) We were also very careful to make sure he didn't have any other undisclosed house rules. -Calestin Kethal
Stafir Ortnev 04-20-06, 09:12 AM	It sounds more like he made that up after the first encounter in order to screw over summoned spells. Though the fact you guys made sure he had no other undisclosed houserules nicely indicates ya'll mighta figured that out as well.
Witch 04-20-06, 09:19 AM	I only have one GM house rule that bothered me. I usually play a straightforward spellcaster. Fireball, lightning bolt, and the like tend to be favored spells. Simplicity appeals to me. After several games of enemies were immune/highly resistant to my standard spells, I decided to prep a few Summon Monster spells for variety, and possible tactics changes. So for the first combat for the day, I cast Summon Monster III for a small fire elemental. Mid fight the elemental was killed, but the combat went easier. A couple in game days pass and I keep SM III prepped. Next combat I whip out SMIII for another small fire elemental. The GM says nothing happens. I roll with it. After the combat was over I ask if the spell was blocked or something, since none of my other spells were affected for the rest of the combat. He explains that he has a house rule. I had read the 1 page of his house rules and agreed with them, but I didn't remember anything about summoned creatures. He explains that he didn't write it down in the list I read. The rule went something like this: When you summon a creature you always get the same one, or if summoning more of a lower level, the same set. But if a summon creature is killed (instead of spell duration ending or being dismissed) it couldn't be summoned for a year and a day. So since my small fire elemental had been killed I couldn't summon one until the time had passed or I could use Summon Monster IV. And if I cast SMIV for small fire elementals, and rolled a 1 on my 1d3, I wouldn't get anything since my #1 fire elemental still couldn't be summoned. But if I rolled a 2, I would get 1 fire elemental, and so on. He was unwilling to change the rule in any way. The person who was about to bring a druid specializing in conjured creatures into the game scrapped his character and made a rogue. No one has used summoned creatures in his games ever since. (Which may have been his goal, though we rarely used them anyway.) We were also very careful to make sure he didn't have any other undisclosed house rules. -Calestin Kethal This is a variant rule I've seen elsewhere. It is not at all a bad rule. The only thing that should be removed is the "year and a day" thing. Change it to a day, or at most a week. It's not bad then.
stargate525 04-20-06, 01:08 PM	This is a variant rule I've seen elsewhere. It is not at all a bad rule. The only thing that should be removed is the "year and a day" thing. Change it to a day, or at most a week. It's not bad then. That variant is, I think, somewhere in the DMG. Although the 'down-time' is a week. There was also a cool one for getting personalized creatures with their own stats and crap too....
Merestil Haye 04-20-06, 02:02 PM	No upgraded magic items, you want something better such as moving from a +1 weapon to a +3 you have to buy a whole new weapon. Armor max dex bonus applies to EVERYTHING include ranged attack rolls. Can't use items to reach preq. for anything. -4 AC when using ranged weapons.Well, the first 3 are pretty much RAW and the last one is a holdover from ADaD. Perhaps you can get him to change his mind on the -4 to AC if you tell him that is not a rule in 3.5.The first three are not "pretty much RAW"; they are very much notRAW, but houserules. Let's see. Improving magic items?Adding New Abilities A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword.Max DEX bonus?This restriction [ie Max Dex to AC] doesn't affect any other Dexterity-related abilities (such as Reflex saves and skill checks).Can't use items to meet prereqs?A bonus that represents an increase in the sturdiness and/or effectiveness of armor or natural armor, or the effectiveness of a weapon, or a general bonus to an ability score. Multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score do not stack. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies. Since enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor effectively increase the armor or natural armor's bonus to AC, they don't apply against touch attacks.An enhancement bonus to an ability score has no restriction on what the enhanced score can be used for. No, these are all houserules.
Merestil Haye 04-20-06, 02:10 PM	The rule went something like this: When you summon a creature you always get the same one, or if summoning more of a lower level, the same set. But if a summon creature is killed (instead of spell duration ending or being dismissed) it couldn't be summoned for a year and a day. So since my small fire elemental had been killed I couldn't summon one until the time had passed or I could use Summon Monster IV.There is a variant in the rules which allows the same creature or creatures to be summoned. If the rule is in use, then yes if the creature dies while summoned it is not available for some time. A year and a day?A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.(Emphasis mine). All he's doing is stretching the duration. A bit... A bit much. I approve of shaking the DM down for more undisclosed houserules. I've typed up my houserules & rulings document, but the trouble is that new rulings keep getting added all the time. Not so much houserules; more things like "How Extra Spell works" (which is the latest ruling I made).
kelvinaw273 04-20-06, 02:25 PM	Originally quoted by Merestil Haye The first three are not "pretty much RAW"; they are very much notRAW, but houserules. Let's see. Improving magic items? Originally Posted by SRD Adding New Abilities A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword. Note the CREATOR can do this. If you are not the creator, you just have a +1 sword you want upgraded, it does not automatically follow that this can be done easily. Can't use items to meet prereqs? Originally Posted by D&D glossary A bonus that represents an increase in the sturdiness and/or effectiveness of armor or natural armor, or the effectiveness of a weapon, or a general bonus to an ability score. Multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score do not stack. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies. Since enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor effectively increase the armor or natural armor's bonus to AC, they don't apply against touch attacks. An enhancement bonus to an ability score has no restriction on what the enhanced score can be used for. Actually, that passage says nothing at all about whether or not a characteristic bonus from an item can help you qualify for a feat, class or anything else. All it saays is that named bonuses do not stack, and that an armour bonus (say on +3 chainmail) does not increase touch armour class. It does not say anything one way or the other. No, these are all houserules. Not all. One is clearly an error or house-rule, some are blind spots in the rules, and others are unclear - they are, in fact, areas upon which a DM would have to make a ruling. Just because RAW does not say you can do something does not mean you cannot, and just because RAW does not say you cannot do something does not mean that you can. The DM is perfectly entitled to tell you that as magic items are unique works of art it is either impossible or very hard for one caster to adjust the work of another. Say a magic sword is made as a +2 Holy Sword by a cleric of Hieronemous. A mage worshipping Boccob may very well be completely unable to enhance it to a +3 Holy Sword. An enhancement to your Dexterity from a pair of gauntlets is not permenant, it disappears when you take the gauntlets off. If you qualify for a feat when you have them on, do you still have it when you take them off? As a DM, I would rule that temporary enhancements do NOIT count; if you want a feat or other feature that requires a 13 Dex, you need a base 13 Dex. 12 Dex and a pair of bracers does not count, otherwise your feat is dependent on the item being worn at the time, which gets complicated.
grubby 04-20-06, 06:17 PM	If we are counting the FAQ as anything close to RAW then all I stated is houserules. The preq. thing- if I were to lose the item and not meet the req. for a feat, say dodge, then untill I either replace the item or use stat increases to get my dex back up I can longer use the feat. As for the uping items, if I were to return to the creator of the item, he could further enhance it as I gain money if you want to word it that way.
Brotha_T 04-20-06, 07:39 PM	I've had DM's roll one save for a lot of creatures. I understand the logistical difficulty it poses to the DM to keep track of a bunch of stats seperately, but you need to be careful about that sort of thing. I think it's a very reasonable complaint from the player if a DM rolls once for ten creatues and they all save because he had one good roll, and likewise for a bad roll. My suggestion would be to just take an average roll of 10 or 11 instead, or don't create huge battles in the first place. I don't think at DM has much room to complain about the difficulty of tracking the stats for ten creatures when he put the creatures in there in the first place. If a player makes a bonehead move and then complains about the consequences, what would your response as a DM be? You would say, well it's your own darn fault! You should start making more intelligent decisions! The same goes for the DM. If you like to create large battles but are not prepared to handle them properly, then don't create large battles. Few things ruin a player's experience more than a DM who dillutes his character's effectiveness through lethargy. For instance, if a wizad gets the chance to cast an area effect spell on a large group of creatures, he will be extremely dissapointed if the spell has no effect, even though it should have statistically succeeded on at least a few creatures.
Merestil Haye 04-20-06, 09:14 PM	Note the CREATOR can do this. If you are not the creator, you just have a +1 sword you want upgraded, it does not automatically follow that this can be done easily.Please check your pronouns. There is nothing saying that "only the original creator" can add new powers to an item. The text says A creator, not The creator. Actually, that passage says nothing at all about whether or not a characteristic bonus from an item can help you qualify for a feat, class or anything else. All it saays is that named bonuses do not stack, and that an armour bonus (say on +3 chainmail) does not increase touch armour class. It does not say anything one way or the other.My point exactly. It does not say it restricts the uses to which the enhanced ability can be put. If it was intended to so restrict the ability, it would say so. Consider; all three of the second level spells that enhance mental abilities have text in them along the lines of "this enhancement does not enable the target to gain additional bonus spells" therefore additional bonus spells are not granted even if the caster were high enough level to have such a spell last over 9 hours (the usual reason given for the target not gaining bonus spells is that the bonus does not last long enough; 9 hours is enough time for rest and preparation). Further consider that the items based on these spells do not have such text, and the wearer does get increases in bonus spells. If the item in question did not allow the wearer to use it for the meeting of prerequisites, either the rules or the item itself would explicitly say so. The rules do not (or if they do I have missed it) and neither do the items. Therefore, I conclude, the enhancement does enable prerequisites to be gained. Even the second level spells do so, although I would consider them inadequate to enable the character to take the feat; however, if he had lost an item he could (for brief periods) regain the use of the feat (which he still has) by having the second level enhancement cast on him. The DM is perfectly entitled to tell you that as magic items are unique works of art it is either impossible or very hard for one caster to adjust the work of another. Say a magic sword is made as a +2 Holy Sword by a cleric of Hieronemous. A mage worshipping Boccob may very well be completely unable to enhance it to a +3 Holy Sword.If the DM wants to introduce such restrictions to his games that's up to him. Such changes may add variety and spice to campaigns."You have to find the Claymore of Gerram Gith. He only ever enchanted the one sword, but divination shows that his work, and none other, is the bane of the Terror."A cool idea. It's still a houserule though. That does not make it wrong. I too have houserules. An enhancement to your Dexterity from a pair of gauntlets is not permenant, it disappears when you take the gauntlets off. If you qualify for a feat when you have them on, do you still have it when you take them off? As a DM, I would rule that temporary enhancements do NOIT count; if you want a feat or other feature that requires a 13 Dex, you need a base 13 Dex. 12 Dex and a pair of bracers does not count, otherwise your feat is dependent on the item being worn at the time, which gets complicated.That is the DM's right, and you can justify it however you please. It does not make it any less a houserule though. I'd query your justification on the grounds that you can assume I would wear the item all the time except when responding to sanitary necessities Certainly when actively adventuring, and when sleeping, Dex-enhanciing items will always be worn. And how complicated is it to make a note on the character sheet that the ability score is raised? You do it once, and thereafter leave it in place until the item is lost. If caught without it then make the adjustments on the fly. I fail to see that is any more complex than your method. I think we'd better just conclude that our styles are somewhat different and that on this issue at least, we must agree to disagree.
driverxaros 04-22-06, 05:22 AM	i have a problem with my DM , the problem is that he has major disagrement with the class of the barbarian let's start 1) with the abilitie RAGE he say that you must attack everything you see and that you are blinded from fury can't think of anything else (something like the frenzy) also that is to powerfull for the character :mad: :mad: 2) with the uncanny dodge it is'n normal to use your uncanny dodge abilitie with medium armot it is to heavy for you to dodge :mad: :mad: 3) the other problem is that my character HAS to stink beacause he is a BARBARIAN i don't say that i don't have to smell bad but i don't see in the rules something about negative bonus when interacting with other Npcs (and the weird thing is that i have the highest CHA of the party) :mad: :mad: 4) and as long we are playing he comes to think and other stuff that making furious (not fast) :D if you can i would like some help to confront him with some serious answers to stop messing with my favorite class PS : sorry about my english i am a bit rusty
kelvinaw273 04-22-06, 04:34 PM	i have a problem with my DM , the problem is that he has major disagrement with the class of the barbarian let's start 1) with the abilitie RAGE he say that you must attack everything you see and that you are blinded from fury can't think of anything else (something like the frenzy) also that is to powerfull for the character :mad: :mad: The rules on this are quite clear, under the barbarian description. Ask you r DM why he particularly wants you to hack to pieces the rest of the party? Our DM does rule that our barbarian MAY hit an ally while raging - if he fumbles and attack (rolls a natural 1) - but that is rare. 2) with the uncanny dodge it is'n normal to use your uncanny dodge abilitie with medium armot it is to heavy for you to dodge :mad: :mad: This is not in the rules for Uncanny Dodge. I suggest that you ask him why if medium armour does not affect your AC modifier it should affect your ability to dodge under toher circumstances - after all, Uncanny dodge is your ability to sense danger, not the speed at which you react to it. Then if he perseveres, get a mithril chain shirt. 3) the other problem is that my character HAS to stink beacause he is a BARBARIAN i don't say that i don't have to smell bad but i don't see in the rules something about negative bonus when interacting with other Npcs (and the weird thing is that i have the highest CHA of the party) :mad: :mad: Point out that as a hunter in the wild, your character has to keep clean to prevent his prey from scenting him. Most hunting cultures bathed regularly, I think at least one Amerindian tribe bathed daily, winter or summer. 4) and as long we are playing he comes to think and other stuff that making furious (not fast) :D if you can i would like some help to confront him with some serious answers to stop messing with my favorite class PS : sorry about my english i am a bit rusty
kelvinaw273 04-22-06, 05:04 PM	Please check your pronouns. There is nothing saying that "only the original creator" can add new powers to an item. The text says A creator, not The creator. Very true. But they do not specifically say that one can or cannot add to the work of another. It is a DM-call, I personally don't rate DM calls as house-rules. House-rules are CHANGES to the rules. DM-calls are where the rules do not say anything about the question. My point exactly. It does not say it restricts the uses to which the enhanced ability can be put. If it was intended to so restrict the ability, it would say so. Why? I could answer that if it WAS intended to not restrict the ability, it would say so. It simply does not say either way. Again, it is a DM-call, not a house-rule. Consider; all three of the second level spells that enhance mental abilities have text in them along the lines of "this enhancement does not enable the target to gain additional bonus spells" therefore additional bonus spells are not granted even if the caster were high enough level to have such a spell last over 9 hours (the usual reason given for the target not gaining bonus spells is that the bonus does not last long enough; 9 hours is enough time for rest and preparation). Further consider that the items based on these spells do not have such text, and the wearer does get increases in bonus spells. If the item in question did not allow the wearer to use it for the meeting of prerequisites, either the rules or the item itself would explicitly say so. The rules do not (or if they do I have missed it) and neither do the items. Therefore, I conclude, the enhancement does enable prerequisites to be gained. A conclusion requires evidence or proof. What you have is an assumption. Assume: an ASS of U and ME. Never assume. Once again, the rules do not say, so it is a DM-call. Even the second level spells do so, although I would consider them inadequate to enable the character to take the feat; however, if he had lost an item he could (for brief periods) regain the use of the feat (which he still has) by having the second level enhancement cast on him. If the DM wants to introduce such restrictions to his games that's up to him. Such changes may add variety and spice to campaigns."You have to find the Claymore of Gerram Gith. He only ever enchanted the one sword, but divination shows that his work, and none other, is the bane of the Terror."A cool idea. It's still a houserule though. That does not make it wrong. I too have houserules. That is the DM's right, and you can justify it however you please. It does not make it any less a houserule though. No, I call them DM-calls. They are issues that a player should ASK their DM about, whereas house-rules are things that the DM specifically changes and that he should inform the players of. I'd query your justification on the grounds that you can assume I would wear the item all the time except when responding to sanitary necessities Certainly when actively adventuring, and when sleeping, Dex-enhanciing items will always be worn. And how complicated is it to make a note on the character sheet that the ability score is raised? You do it once, and thereafter leave it in place until the item is lost. If caught without it then make the adjustments on the fly. I fail to see that is any more complex than your method. No, I would not assume that. I don't wear the same item day in and day out, save my wedding ring, and since I got divorced I don't wear that any more. But even when adventuring, you take items off now and again. But even so, it is an assumption that raised abilities through non-normal means (ie not natural or permenant) boost any and all attributes associated with those abilities, such as spell-casting. In the Neverwinter Nights game a character with their spellcasting attribute boosted does not gain extra spells, although the DC for the saves against their spells does adjust. Not pure D&D I know, but it makes clear that other interpretations exist. I think we'd better just conclude that our styles are somewhat different and that on this issue at least, we must agree to disagree. I am not saying you are wrong, and I agree our styles are different. What I want to say is that these are grey areas in the rules, and that is why we have DMs. I expect a DM to rule on grey areas as they are encountered, whereas I expect a DM to tell me about house rules in advance. If people were more aware of the fact that they ARE grey areas, and that no-one can foresee some of them, there might be a lot less arguments when the DM does rule on them. As I said originally, no-one should assume that just because it does not say you CAN do something that you can't, and just because it does not say that you CANNOT do something does not mean that you CAN. I have been on both sides of the arguments over the years, where a player or DM assumed something unsaid in the rules, and then found that the reason another character was doing so well while everyone else was handicapped was down to their personal interpretation of the rules ... and heard the resulting argument with the DM when he ruled they were out of order and they couldn't do that anymore.
drogo 04-22-06, 05:45 PM	My dm has some annoying house rules. 1. Very limited item selection. For example: he wouldn't let the rouge in the group buy mithral armor he said you had to go to a dwarven smithy. 2. magic weapons such as: shock, frost, or holy. Don't exist you have to get a mage to cast a spell on your weapon that gives it something like shock, but it only lasts for a set amount of time
The White Sorcerer 04-23-06, 02:43 AM	he wouldn't let the rouge in the group buy mithral armor he said you had to go to a dwarven smithy. Completely reasonable.
crinos43 04-23-06, 03:21 AM	Without reading everything here, i think I have the biggest house rule flub ever. This is a game I dodged because it is run on a day I usually have to work, but i hear about it all the time. The game is triple-gestalt, and everything out of EVERY D20 BOOK KNOWN TO MAN IS LEGAL! One guy once told me about his epic-level Gunman/Jedi/Sorcerer and i thought I was gonna puke.
crinos43 04-23-06, 04:59 AM	And now that I have recoverd from that vent, these are actual house rules that I have used. Everytime i run a game, I make sure to have copies of these rules on hand for the players. - Before ability adjustments, the total of all six abilities MUST equal 80. Sure you get end up with 3 18's, but i also make NPCs this way. - If you do not like your HP roll, you can have me roll it, but you HAVE to take my roll. Not very often were people willing to gamble their rolls, even 5's on a d12 were kept. - Only books allowed: three core, MMs II and III, Fiend Folio, XPH, Eberron books, Races of..., Complete... NO EXCEPTIONS! This is to reduce the amount of confusion. I also do not allow the 20-level classes in those books for that same reason, but the racial substitution levels are still allowed, though they have yet to be taken. - If the book is not listed for you to use, I won't use it. This is to be fair. - Players vote for best RPers, and they cannot vote for themselves. This rule is used in a D&D game I used to be part of, and i incorporated it in my game. Sure this could cause some fixing, but I think it's a lot better for the people who actually PLAY to choose who they think is the best. - Metagaming will cause things to change. My definition of metagaming is using out-of-character knowledge to affect in-character actions. One time, the party found out they would be fighting a raksasha. The next day, one of the players said for the party to buy blessed arrows, without making a roll in-character to see if he knew that piece of information. Very quickly, that raksasha went from having DR 15/good and piercing to DR 10/-. - Certain classes cannot be taken after first level if they were not taken at first level. Psionic classes, sorceres, monks, paladins, and barbarians I feel require a certain kind of training or a special heritage that cannot be duplicated just by saying "I'm taking a level in <insert class here>." Therefore, if you wish to, for example, become a rage mage, you must take barbarian first.
The White Sorcerer 04-23-06, 07:59 AM	Without reading everything here, i think I have the biggest house rule flub ever. Hardly. That triple gestalt kitchen sink game actually sounded pretty fun.
Witch 04-23-06, 08:34 AM	- Certain classes cannot be taken after first level if they were not taken at first level. Psionic classes, sorceres, monks, paladins, and barbarians I feel require a certain kind of training or a special heritage that cannot be duplicated just by saying "I'm taking a level in <insert class here>." Therefore, if you wish to, for example, become a rage mage, you must take barbarian first. Although I like most of your rules, (excepting the ban on 20level classes from the Complete books and others, but they're understandable), I have a question on these. It is possible for sorcerers and psions to discover later in life. In this example, you have made the arcane fist pretty impossible to achieve unless they go with Monk/Wizard, and I think most people would heavily prefer sorcerer to fit in with the theme.
kelvinaw273 04-23-06, 04:59 PM	Without reading everything here, i think I have the biggest house rule flub ever. This is a game I dodged because it is run on a day I usually have to work, but i hear about it all the time. The game is triple-gestalt, and everything out of EVERY D20 BOOK KNOWN TO MAN IS LEGAL! One guy once told me about his epic-level Gunman/Jedi/Sorcerer and i thought I was gonna puke. Those among you that looked upon this thread and said "Cool Game!" are SICK, TWISTED and IN NEED OF THERAPY!
crinos43 04-24-06, 03:45 AM	Although I like most of your rules, (excepting the ban on 20level classes from the Complete books and others, but they're understandable), I have a question on these. It is possible for sorcerers and psions to discover later in life. In this example, you have made the arcane fist pretty impossible to achieve unless they go with Monk/Wizard, and I think most people would heavily prefer sorcerer to fit in with the theme. I put this ban on multiclassing for the reason that I feel certain classes cannot jsut occur. I don't think a PC should be able to wake up one morning and say "You know, I think I'm gonna be a soulknife." That just does not work with me.
The White Sorcerer 04-24-06, 08:15 AM	SICK, TWISTED and IN NEED OF THERAPY! Why, thank you! :D
Nurgan_the_drunked 04-24-06, 06:34 PM	I put this ban on multiclassing for the reason that I feel certain classes cannot jsut occur. I don't think a PC should be able to wake up one morning and say "You know, I think I'm gonna be a soulknife." That just does not work with me. I think we understand the rule; it's just that there may well be decent exceptions, if proposed sensibly. If when I make my first level Fighter, I establish that this character has a psionic nature that hasn't manifested yet and may come into play in minor ways until then, would that be OK? What if my sorcerer has had monk training, but couldn't be a sorcerer & be a monk at 1st, what if I take it at 2nd and play up the "Monkness" etc. would that be permissible? I’m Just curious how lenient you are on this one. Certainly a Fighter who gets to 5th and with no warning to anyone gets an odd level that clashes with concept I can see your point, but if they've been playing a Lawful Good, stick in backside, Righteous crusader Paladin, just without levels, would you let them take the class?
theDuBixCube 04-24-06, 07:00 PM	Ok....suppose it my turn.....as a DM, I've only had, belive it or not, one argument about a house rule I made...and it was with my BF of all people....I made the house rule that the Evasion feat for you 1/2 damage if you made the save...Improved evasion got got you 1/2 automatically and 1/4 if you saved....well..needless to say, by Bf had a problem with that...<mainly because he had made his save and I said he still took damage>. His argument was that the Evasion feat means that you find something to hide behind.....my counter argument was "you are in a completely bare room and someone has cast fireball...what the f**k are you planning on hiding behind?...air!?!? LOL> Thats really been my only house rule...I've modified Evasion slightly....there HAS to be something in the room to duck behind THAT IS BIG ENOUGH TO COVER YOUR CHARACTER before I let it work the way as written....otherwise, forget it...you are going to take SOME damage. This has to do with my refusal to belive that a 4th lvl char. is somehow "twisty" enough to contort themselves between the flickering flames of a fireball to take no damage at all, but can't manage to make the roll to get out of the ropes that they are tied up with in a differnt instance....I prefer a bit of "realism" in my games.... I don't know if it's been addressed already, but I'm at work and don't have the time to sift through 8+ pages of posts. If Evasion and Improved Evasion were indeed feats, I would completely agree with your assesment of the situation. However, Evasion/Improved Evasion are Extraordinary Abilities. When I think of Extraordinary Abilities, I tend to think of things that would otherwise be "unbelievable", so to speak. I would have to agree with your BF on this one. However, were I a player in your game, I wouldn't complain about it as it could be much worse. On the other hand, that rule could certainly be the difference between narrow escape and certain death. ;) *Disclaimer* My reply is written with 3.5 in mind, not sure if the aforementioned abilities were classified differently in 3.0. Or if you're playing 3.5 or 3.0. If they were and if you are, disregard. *End Disclaimer*
stargate525 04-24-06, 07:14 PM	I think we understand the rule; it's just that there may well be decent exceptions, if proposed sensibly. If when I make my first level Fighter, I establish that this character has a psionic nature that hasn't manifested yet and may come into play in minor ways until then, would that be OK? What if my sorcerer has had monk training, but couldn't be a sorcerer & be a monk at 1st, what if I take it at 2nd and play up the "Monkness" etc. would that be permissible? I’m Just curious how lenient you are on this one. Certainly a Fighter who gets to 5th and with no warning to anyone gets an odd level that clashes with concept I can see your point, but if they've been playing a Lawful Good, stick in backside, Righteous crusader Paladin, just without levels, would you let them take the class? I personally like the 'if you can RP it, then I'll allow it'. I once played a sorceror stuck at a monastary for a year, so he took two levels in monk. Boosted his armor class and was logical In Game.
Priest_of_Shaundakul 04-24-06, 07:21 PM	I had a DM, who, get this, equated each point of BAB into damage as well as chance to hit. What were the reprecussions?: A 10th level Fighter had an additional +10 damage from BAB alone... A 5th level Cleric had +3 damage, etc But the funny part? He didn't use this rule with the monsters :confused: Suffice to say, games got boring real quick.
Posokhov 04-24-06, 10:18 PM	This is an annoying and nosensical houserule my DM has: you can only speak 6 syllables per round. :pbbbtt: Wow. No offense to him, but does he struggle speaking? In all honesty, I could understand if he implemented that rule for characters with INTs of 3 or 4. 6 syllables in 6 seconds. My DMs' "fun" house rules: 1.) DM #1: If he didn't plan on someone using the skill, then they can't. If you try to use it again, he ignores your skill checks for the rest of the session. A messenger enters town and wants to speak with the king, but we've been hired to protect him. <After engaging in conversation with the messenger> Me: "I rolled a 26 for sense motive." DM: "He wants to get in your pants." Me: "Ok. Now how about an actual answer to the sense motive check?" DM: "The king comes out of the castle and starts talking to the messenger." 2.) DM #2: He tries to make his D&D sessions into anime clones. a] No matter how much you're carrying, you can always move at your maximum speed. b] No matter how far you move in a single round, you aren't susceptible to AoO's because while moving at maximum speed, you are too quick to hit. c] He has a house rule where you can run up a 4 foot high rock, backflip off it, land behind your target, and attack your now-flatfooted target in the same round. With 0 jump skill in full platemail. That's right, run up a 4 foot high rock, do a backflip that covers 10 feet of ground while wearing an entire suit of platemail, land on your feet facing the enemy's back, the swing your hastened greatsword 5 times. All in a period of 6 seconds! I quit playing with DM #2 simply because while I don't mind creativity, that hit the point of absurdity. 3.) DM #3: Ah, DM 3. Hordes and hordes of monsters. A random cleric walks by, heals everybody, then leaves. Hordes and hordes of monsters. Aforementioned cleric comes back, heals us again, buffs us slightly, then leaves. Hordes and hordes of monsters. Loot! Including ONE-HANDED GREATSWORDS that were "balanced because they weren't magical". --- I still play with #1 & #3 when they're players, but I just find it annoying to play with their "house rules".
speeblefreak 04-24-06, 10:36 PM	Wow. No offense to him, but does he struggle speaking? In all honesty, I could understand if he implemented that rule for characters with INTs of 3 or 4. 6 syllables in 6 seconds. He speaks just fine, as do all the players, the lowest Int in the group is the half-orc's 8 or so, the rule is in effect even out of combat, and it even affects the party wizard. (Boy, am I glad I decided not to be a truenamer!) His reasoning is that someone's normal rate of speech is chopped up into many D&D rounds, even though it takes no longer than usual to say. What?
stargate525 04-24-06, 11:12 PM	He speaks just fine, as do all the players, the lowest Int in the group is the half-orc's 8 or so, the rule is in effect even out of combat, and it even affects the party wizard. (Boy, am I glad I decided not to be a truenamer!) His reasoning is that someone's normal rate of speech is chopped up into many D&D rounds, even though it takes no longer than usual to say. What? I understand his reasoning for combat, you can't exactly shoot out a tactical speech in six seconds. But OUTSIDE of combat it's usually free-action, why block it up like that?
StruckingFuggle 04-25-06, 01:03 AM	You know, looking at the clock, I can say at LEAST twice that in six seconds, three or four times that if I'm rushing.
Rivelstraz 04-25-06, 05:47 AM	These are my house-rules, you'll say what do you think. All players know, and the other DMs embrace them. *Dexterity limit on armor affects all dexterity checks (Reflex, ranged attacks, skills, etc.) *Initiative is rolled with a d10, instead of d20. *When you are in danger of drowning (or similar) you roll a fortitude save, not plain constitution (I found it too easy to die drowned...) *Every class receives an extra skill point per level (rogue gets 9, cleric 3, etc.). I found that classes with two skill points are too limited, and my players picked up human just for the extra skill, which is nice, but I encourage other races with this change. Humans are still desirable (4 skill points plus intelligence bonus) but other races are actually being considered now. *Drinking a potion doesn't provoke an AoO. *I can not decide if a player bluffed (or similars) another player. Since a player can just decide he won't believe the other, it's up to him. This is of course excluding meta-gaming. Role-playing and rollplaying work together here, but the players got the last word. *I allow any feat, PrC, class (and class variants), whatever from any of the books that me and the other DM owe, however, some classes, like the Berserker Frenzy are NPC-only. *Damage from Power Attack, Smite [X], or similars don't get multiplied with a critical strike. *Feats that give bonus to a skill, now give +4 instead of +3. The feats that give +2 to two feats, now give +3 to one, +2 to other. *The feat "Mage Slayer", from the Complete Arcane, is "on-hold", and I may house-rule that the caster only provokes an AoO from the feat owner(s), not by everybody who threats him (If he's casting in a defensive stance). No player has ever had it anyways... Considering right now: *Level 6 rangers get their two-weapon fighting penalty reduced by one. Level 11 rangers, by two (if they choose the TWF style) or create a feat that requires BAB +11 that removes the penalty, instead of having to get three levels in the Tempest class. I'm considering other adjustements for TWF, since I feel it's too heavy on feats. *Half-elves to get same weapon proficiencies as elves or a extra skill point as humans.
crinos43 04-25-06, 11:38 AM	I think we understand the rule; it's just that there may well be decent exceptions, if proposed sensibly. If when I make my first level Fighter, I establish that this character has a psionic nature that hasn't manifested yet and may come into play in minor ways until then, would that be OK? What if my sorcerer has had monk training, but couldn't be a sorcerer & be a monk at 1st, what if I take it at 2nd and play up the "Monkness" etc. would that be permissible? I’m Just curious how lenient you are on this one. Certainly a Fighter who gets to 5th and with no warning to anyone gets an odd level that clashes with concept I can see your point, but if they've been playing a Lawful Good, stick in backside, Righteous crusader Paladin, just without levels, would you let them take the class? There is an exception to this, and I discussed this with one of the people who plays in my games usually (who also actually enjoyed the rule). When making a cahracter, if you wish to do a multiclass into one of these classes, they need to discuss with me their intentions. If someone wants to do a unique mystic theurge that's druid/sorcerer, they need to explain to me why sorcerer second. Monks and Paladins could easily occure if they hang oaround a temple for a long time, but they can't just become one in-game.
Entheogenic 04-25-06, 02:15 PM	Our DM has recently ruled that our party's shadowsmith (from ToM) can produce entire quivers of arrows with his class ability. The ability specificially says that he can only produce one or two items, and that the item(s) can't have any moving or flexible parts. How an entire usable quiver of arrows fits into that is beyond me, but now he can pull out 20 +3 arrows as a full-round action as often as he wants. The worst part is that the player of the shadowsmith is the one who is constantly trying to break the game by making ridiculously overpowered characters, and then rule-lawyering things to his advantage. I don't get it. Entheogenic
degoran 04-26-06, 10:46 PM	2) I was playing a warlock and the town was attacked by a horde of zombie monks (I don't get it either but think zombie with a bunch of monk powers). There is a template in the Book of Vile Darkness called Flesh Creature, which is basically a zombie that retains its intelligence, memories, and class levels. It is capable of continuing to level up. Maybe that's what he threw at the town. Otherwise, he's a whackjob.
Archangel62 04-26-06, 11:51 PM	There is a template in the Book of Vile Darkness called Flesh Creature, which is basically a zombie that retains its intelligence, memories, and class levels. It is capable of continuing to level up. Maybe that's what he threw at the town. Otherwise, he's a whackjob. Nope, those were mindless undead, he said as much. No one in the group owned vile darkness, he had zombies that were moving at a base speed of 90ft per round with no magical items. He also gave all of them evasion and constantly improving AC and to-hit. In other words if you hit them once their AC jumped by 5, if they missed you their to-hit jumped by five, they also had greater multiattack and about 14 attacks per round as evidenced by the huge number of townspeople that were being slaughtered despite the best efforts of the group.
Arcane 04-27-06, 12:14 AM	Perhaps this isn't quite a house rule, but... My DM seems to want to ruin all my characters. Every single one that I roll, whether 25s across the board or straight 6s, seems to be suicidal and targeted by the Gods themselves. He has something against them, but not me...and uses my death as comedic relief! He makes me so angry at times...:mad:. I won't murder him yet, I promise!
The White Sorcerer 04-27-06, 03:07 AM	constantly improving AC and to-hit. In other words if you hit them once their AC jumped by 5, if they missed you their to-hit jumped by five Okay, the zombie monks are fine, but this clears the threshold of absurdity with flying colors.
Zareneth 04-27-06, 11:16 PM	My DM has absolutely no clue what he's doing. I'm a player, never DMed a game in my life, and he's asking to borrow my DMG(I DONT EVEN OWN A DMG) because he doesn't have one. He doesn't know what a Level Adjustment is, and when he plays with his dad, he plays a Hound Archon, which does, in fact, have a LEVEL ADJUSTMENT. We have yet to play with him, but i have a feeling every game i do play will be void because he doesn't even know the most basic of rules.
zlatko 04-28-06, 05:56 AM	*Dexterity limit on armor affects all dexterity checks (Reflex, ranged attacks, skills, etc.) Doh. Isn't this in the rules already? *Initiative is rolled with a d10, instead of d20. This would be purely flavor, were it not for the HUGE(double the normal on d20) bonuses for characters with high dex and/or improved initiative would have. *When you are in danger of drowning (or similar) you roll a fortitude save, not plain constitution (I found it too easy to die drowned...) And your players agreed this is a good rule, of course :) Don't forget to add accumulative penalty round after round of drowning, otherwise you just gave some of your players underwater breathing. *Every class receives an extra skill point per level (rogue gets 9, cleric 3, etc.). I found that classes with two skill points are too limited, and my players picked up human just for the extra skill, which is nice, but I encourage other races with this change. Humans are still desirable (4 skill points plus intelligence bonus) but other races are actually being considered now. *Feats that give bonus to a skill, now give +4 instead of +3. The feats that give +2 to two feats, now give +3 to one, +2 to other. Another one your players embraced. BTW, the main reason ppl take human is the extra feat. Besides, it's more fun improvising then "party has everything". Did you even notice the skill descriptions? With these house rules, a skill (diplomacy, bluff, intimidate...) oriented char at higher lvls can make a Balor cry and commit suicide. *Drinking a potion doesn't provoke an AoO. This is just silly and was probably inspired by video games. For me anyone tilting their head while drinking a potion is good as a kebab. Had you a vontraption that lets you drink your potions through a straw (like I did on soccer games), I'd say fine. *I can not decide if a player bluffed (or similars) another player. Since a player can just decide he won't believe the other, it's up to him. This is of course excluding meta-gaming. Role-playing and rollplaying work together here, but the players got the last word. Nooooo!. It's called ROLEPLAY. If your players can't do that, stick to mmorpgs. Rollplay has only the supporting act in this case. Don't tell me if the players, throug metagaming, knew the old town mayor is a vampire, they would automatically pierce his disguise and pass their sense motive checks. *I allow any feat, PrC, class (and class variants), whatever from any of the books that me and the other DM owe, however, some classes, like the Berserker Frenzy are NPC-only. Fine. *Damage from Power Attack, Smite [X], or similars don't get multiplied with a critical strike. This just makes me not want to play a fighter in your games. *The feat "Mage Slayer", from the Complete Arcane, is "on-hold", and I may house-rule that the caster only provokes an AoO from the feat owner(s), not by everybody who threats him (If he's casting in a defensive stance). No player has ever had it anyways... I say this is exactly how the feat should work. But then again, I don't play in 3+fighter parties. I ran a few though. Briefly :P *Level 6 rangers get their two-weapon fighting penalty reduced by one. Level 11 rangers, by two (if they choose the TWF style) or create a feat that requires BAB +11 that removes the penalty, instead of having to get three levels in the Tempest class. I'm considering other adjustements for TWF, since I feel it's too heavy on feats. And you make me wann play ranger. *Half-elves to get same weapon proficiencies as elves or a extra skill point as humans. Doh.
The White Sorcerer 04-28-06, 07:09 AM	Isn't this in the rules already? No.
The White Sorcerer 04-28-06, 07:11 AM	Dexterity limit on armor affects all dexterity checks (Reflex, ranged attacks, skills, etc.) Having it affect skills is a bit silly. That's what the armor check penalty is for, after all.
Pegasos989 04-28-06, 07:34 AM	I have never even thought that when wearing an armor with "Max Dex Bonus 1" you could have Max Dex Bonus higher than 1. I have always thought that max dex bonus would be the maxium dexterity bonus you can have when wearing the armour. :D Ofcourse it might not affect in some situations (open lock, etc) but to things such as tumble and the like. Seems like I have had a houserule without knowing it and players have never complained. And max dex bonus and armor check penalty aren't for the same thing. Armor check penalty demonstrates that even if you have dex 12, you still may have problems when wearing a fullplate. I guess I gotta believe that max dex bonus isn't the max dex bonus you can have. :O
KVW 04-28-06, 10:31 AM	I played with a DM who awarded experience points on a merit only method. Based soley on combat in other words if you got the kill you got the xp. I did not see this as fair because it became a hack n slash fighters game. He also took away the clerics ability to turn and guess what I was the cleric. He said turning was unfair to the rest of the party it denied the fighters the chance to shred the undead and since the undead were turned and fled no one got xp. Basicly this system made the party look like this 2 6th level fighters a 3rd level cleric and a 2nd level magic user oh yeah a 4th level rogue. It also created infighting and competition among the players trying to get the kill. Mages got a % of the xp if they used a spell to damage a creature or if they closed for combat same with clerics but clerics got no xp for healing.
Salty_Boy 04-28-06, 11:32 AM	No. Yes. Maximum Dex Bonus This number is the maximum Dexterity bonus to AC that this type of armor allows. Heavier armors limit mobility, reducing the wearer’s ability to dodge blows. This restriction doesn’t affect any other Dexterity-related abilities. Even if a character’s Dexterity bonus to AC drops to 0 because of armor, this situation does not count as losing a Dexterity bonus to AC.
kelvinaw273 04-28-06, 12:15 PM	I played with a DM who awarded experience points on a merit only method. Based soley on combat in other words if you got the kill you got the xp. I did not see this as fair because it became a hack n slash fighters game. He also took away the clerics ability to turn and guess what I was the cleric. He said turning was unfair to the rest of the party it denied the fighters the chance to shred the undead and since the undead were turned and fled no one got xp. Basicly this system made the party look like this 2 6th level fighters a 3rd level cleric and a 2nd level magic user oh yeah a 4th level rogue. It also created infighting and competition among the players trying to get the kill. Mages got a % of the xp if they used a spell to damage a creature or if they closed for combat same with clerics but clerics got no xp for healing. We should come up with a name for this and post it in the Worst Types of DMs thread! That has to be the dumbest, saddest way to run a agame I have ever seen.
Witch 04-28-06, 12:28 PM	Yes. So you managed to say something, and in the same post, offer proof to the contrary. Max Dex Bonus is only to AC, not to any other checks.
Merestil Haye 04-28-06, 12:50 PM	Yes.No. Your rules quote showss you are wrong. Read it again. Maximum Dex Bonus This number is the maximum Dexterity bonus to AC that this type of armor allows. Heavier armors limit mobility, reducing the wearer’s ability to dodge blows. This restriction doesn’t affect any other Dexterity-related abilities. Even if a character’s Dexterity bonus to AC drops to 0 because of armor, this situation does not count as losing a Dexterity bonus to AC.(Bolding mine). It is quite plain that the limitation on the level of Dex bonus applies only to the characters AC and not to any other Dex-based checks. Ranged attack rolls, Reflex saves, Dex-based skills and Dexterity checks do not have, and have never had, the Dexterity modifier capped by what armour you wear.
hmmmm 04-29-06, 05:23 PM	If your first one got locked I would take that as a hint not to start a second one.
Halfer 04-29-06, 09:57 PM	Once upon a time, my PC's gained a level. While he was still leveling, the fighter had already written down his feat, and being knew to the game and trying desperately the whole night to not do anything illegal he asked me if he could erase it and take a different one. I thought to myself: "Uhm, yeah sure, you're not done leveling yet I guess I could let you do that," But it was going on 5 in teh morning, and he had an unopened 20 ounce energy drink waiting for him, and what really came out of my mouth was: "Hrmmmm, no i don't think i can let you do that. . . unnnnleeeeesssss you give me that energy drink" Yes, he gave me the energy drink.
valcarde 04-29-06, 10:44 PM	Worst DM experience I had: I join a party that is around level 4-5, so I toll a level 4 character. He didn't give me any restrictions other then 'The main 3 books'. I rolled my character, wanted to make a swashbuckling type light fighter, specializing in rapier. He didn't allow me to buy any magic items, gave me some random out of the book, but let me buy some things normally (so I had a masterwork rapier, was lucky enough to get a chain shirt +1) So we adventure for a while. After 2-3 levels, I'm noticing everyone in the party has magical weapons, but I'm still using my masterwork rapier. I ask the GM... "Oh. This world doesn't have any rapiers, because I hate them." ...
Archangel62 04-30-06, 12:15 AM	If your first one got locked I would take that as a hint not to start a second one. If you mean the thread itself it got locked because it had gotten large and they were trimming the boards, considering how long this thing has been going we would have gotten a lock on it by now otherwise.
Tanivor 04-30-06, 11:51 AM	If killed, you must change alignment, ability scores and at least 2 of the following: Class Gender Species Weapon Armor Skill Distribution Also, must change how you roleplay character. (This came about because one member of our group insisted on playing a female elven rogue regardless of what happened last time, and played the same character, even though her first two died!)
stargate525 04-30-06, 12:21 PM	If killed, you must change alignment, ability scores and at least 2 of the following: Class Gender Species Weapon Armor Skill Distribution Also, must change how you roleplay character. (This came about because one member of our group insisted on playing a female elven rogue regardless of what happened last time, and played the same character, even though her first two died!) That's not too bad of a house-rule really, if you take out the alignment force-change.
syntaxerror37 05-01-06, 01:06 AM	After 2-3 levels, I'm noticing everyone in the party has magical weapons, but I'm still using my masterwork rapier. I ask the GM... "Oh. This world doesn't have any rapiers, because I hate them." Wow. I mean just wow. I can see if he said that about the spiked chain, but a plain old rapier? That's just criminal.
The White Sorcerer 05-01-06, 02:03 AM	That's just criminal. Especially after the DM let the character have a masterwork rapier, even though they don't exist in his world. When banning stuff, a DM should at least be consistent.
hmmmm 05-01-06, 03:28 AM	If you mean the thread itself it got locked because it had gotten large and they were trimming the boards, considering how long this thing has been going we would have gotten a lock on it by now otherwise. I figured that out.
Archangel62 05-20-06, 04:01 AM	Two words: Exploding Kobolds
GFC_Seracule 05-20-06, 04:44 PM	Yes. NO. (Just to make sure everyone understands :))
Arbitrary Aardvark 05-23-06, 01:31 PM	I've had DM's roll one save for a lot of creatures. I understand the logistical difficulty it poses to the DM to keep track of a bunch of stats seperately, but you need to be careful about that sort of thing. I think it's a very reasonable complaint from the player if a DM rolls once for ten creatues and they all save because he had one good roll, and likewise for a bad roll. My suggestion would be to just take an average roll of 10 or 11 instead, Terrible idea, taking the average. Many monsters (especially those with lots of hit dice, and not much else) have high enough saves at a given CR that they save most of the time. A valid technique for spell casters is to keep casting all-or-nothing spells until the creature fails its save. Against a group of creatures, the technique is to cast an all-or-nothing spell and hope that some of the creatures fail. Taking the average nerfs those spells big time, since a spell that could be expected to affect, say, 2 of 8 monsters now effects none, or a spell which could affect a creature 25% of the time never effects it.
Arbitrary Aardvark 05-23-06, 01:37 PM	i have a problem with my DM , the problem is that he has major disagrement with the class of the barbarian let's start 1) with the abilitie RAGE he say that you must attack everything you see and that you are blinded from fury can't think of anything else (something like the frenzy) also that is to powerfull for the character :mad: :mad: Absolutely incorrect. The rules specify that you can't do anything that requires concentration, but that is about it. Your DM is thinking either about the 2nd edition Berserker, or the Frenzied Berserker prestige class. And rage isn't all that great. A 4th level fighter can have weapon specialization, which adds +2 to damage, pretty much same as rage, and can have a lot more feats than a barbarian. 2) with the uncanny dodge it is'n normal to use your uncanny dodge abilitie with medium armot it is to heavy for you to dodge :mad: :mad: The rules as written allow you to wear medium armor and keep all class features. Still, you are better off with a chain shirt in order to keep the 40 foot movement. 3) the other problem is that my character HAS to stink beacause he is a BARBARIAN i don't say that i don't have to smell bad but i don't see in the rules something about negative bonus when interacting with other Npcs (and the weird thing is that i have the highest CHA of the party) :mad: :mad: Well, one of the historical inspirations for the Barbarian class is the ancient Vikings, and they were notorious for bathing (much more than the Christians of Northern Europe at the time.)
Arbitrary Aardvark 05-23-06, 02:24 PM	If killed, you must change alignment, ability scores and at least 2 of the following: Class Gender Species Weapon Armor Skill Distribution Heck, I do that all the time for my characters. Life is to short not to have variety. (I'm pretty sure I haven't run two 3.0/3.5 characters of the same class yet.)
Salty_Boy 05-23-06, 04:42 PM	No. Your rules quote showss you are wrong. Read it again. (Bolding mine). It is quite plain that the limitation on the level of Dex bonus applies only to the characters AC and not to any other Dex-based checks. Ranged attack rolls, Reflex saves, Dex-based skills and Dexterity checks do not have, and have never had, the Dexterity modifier capped by what armour you wear. I really should know better than to post something and never bother to look at the replies.... I wasn't debating the part that you all seem to think I am (i.e. Max Dex bonuses). I was simply saying (and quoted White Sorcerer as such) that there is, in fact, something in the rules about it. I read it to understand that White Sorcerer was stating that there were no rules concerning the topic of Max Dex applied to skills. I was stating the contrary. My apologies for the confusion (and subsequent knotting of knickers).
Ravenwillow 06-09-06, 06:00 AM	If you roll matching the AC exactly, it does 1/2 dmg for 'awkward angle'. :rofl: It's strange to think that this kind of crazy thinking actually makes perfectly logical sense in someone's head. I hate to say this, but I actually like this rule enough to incorporate it.. Its called a 'glancing blow' or 'flesh wound'. Ya just didn't get that 'bite' in deep enough. I likes it.. Of course.. That means it works both ways (for which my players will be eternally grateful)
green_yawgmoth 06-11-06, 12:53 AM	Two words: Exploding Kobolds Amusing only if they yell "kobold rush OMG!" or "for the horde!" :D http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
DarknessEternal 06-11-06, 04:53 AM	I hate to say this, but I actually like this rule enough to incorporate it.. Its called a 'glancing blow' or 'flesh wound'. So "critical glancing blows" and "critical flesh wounds" make sense to you?
Kuraito 06-11-06, 07:04 AM	4. There shall be no threatening the DM with physical violence. Football player + Dnd = bad Hey, I resemble that remark, and I have never threatned a DM with violence. Hell, I'm even a weightlifter and in the boxing club, still, no threat of violence towards the DM or my fellow players. Stereo typing is just wrong man. Prejudiced against the Jock-man, I see how it is. Thats just ignant dawg.
Damior 06-11-06, 01:10 PM	Here is one thing I'm really ticked off about. My DM says that all characters except wizards, bards and paladins are illiterate, not just barbarians.
Sylian 06-12-06, 02:58 PM	Why shouldn't a cleric of the god of knowledge know how to read?
PirateGospel 06-14-06, 04:45 PM	These are my house-rules, though I don't really think they are ridiculous.. you lemme know! :D 1) Have fun. *(If you're not, you need to pull me aside and tell me. I can be a little inept and easily distracted sometimes, but I will do everything I can to make sure you have fun.) 2) Expect everything to have a price. 3) You are more than welcome to develop your own feats, prestige classes, items, and spells. These, of course, are all subject to my final approval. 4) If I ever provide you with less detail in a situation that you would like, this means one of two things: I have done it purosefully, or I have simply forgotten. Either way, asking for more information is usually the best course of action. 5) If your character experiences a permenant death (Ie, you need to write up a new character sheet) you must write up a character that consists of nothing the original character was in terms of class and race. 6) On all checks except for initiative, treat a natural 20 as though it meant perfect success. In the case of opposed checks where both rolls are natural 20's, there will be a re-roll. 7) On all checks except for initiative, treat a natural 1 as though it meant automatic failure. In the case of opposed checks where both rolls are natural 1's, there will be a re-roll. 8) Stabilizing in combat: Roll a d20, on a 1 or 2 on the dice, your character self-stabilizes. 9) Called Shots: You take a -4 penalty on your attack roll to aim your attack at a specific area of the target's body. There are mitigating factors which may increase or lower your opponent's AC, and when the called shot is placed to cause death or maiming, the opponent will get also reflex save (DC = your attack roll) to turn the blow back towards the bulk of their body. Should they make their reflex save, they will still take full damage, but remove the possibility of instantaneous death or loss of an important body part. 10) I do not require experience be used at all in order to craft any item, however both the time and gold cost in materials require an additional 10%. This 10% is added after the calculation of the materials price, and may be negated by opting to pay the experience anyways. 11) In order to scribe a spell into a spellbook, I only require 25gold per level of the spell. 12) There is always a method to my madness, regardless of how it may seem sometimes. Certain things may have much deeper meaning than they appear to, but I leave it up to you to decipher them. Many of these little ' easter eggs ' may have little to do with the storyline or party, but I'd like to think they add to the overall experience. In short, there is always a reason for the situation the party has found themselves in. 13) Taking into account rule number 12, I would like to point out a great deal of the time, I simply make things up. I've detailed out the major storyline, but what you do in game actually does effect the world around you, so I will never, ever have a written-out idea for a session. As far as I know, you could bear west when I thought you were going north. 14) I reserve the right to ammend these rules at any time. I have a poor memory and I'm sure there's something I may have forgotten or may end up adding on when I reconsider it.
Rab-Ka-La 06-14-06, 11:30 PM	[QUOTE=PirateGospel]These are my house-rules, though I don't really think they are ridiculous.. you lemme know! :D 1) Have fun. *(If you're not, you need to pull me aside and tell me. I can be a little inept and easily distracted sometimes, but I will do everything I can to make sure you have fun.) This is ridiculous! Where in the books does it say that? I need a definition of this 'fun' thing as well as appropriate rules to adjudicate it fairly. You are basically strong arming your players into having 'fun' even if they don't want to have it. Is it a melee touch attack to pull you aside? This sounds like your putting all the work on the players, especially if you are a big guy. Once you are pulled aside, how would one keep your attention long enough if you are easily distracted? There are all sorts of issues here, I would change this one.
speeblefreak 06-14-06, 11:53 PM	6) On all checks except for initiative, treat a natural 20 as though it meant perfect success. In the case of opposed checks where both rolls are natural 20's, there will be a re-roll. I attempt a Strength check to break the world. I take 20. :D
PirateJesus 06-15-06, 12:44 AM	I attempt a Strength check to break the world. I take 20. :D Okay by me, but that means we have to start over again. :/ I'm game for all sorts of silliness, but the other Players may want to have you lynched after the third or fourth TPK.
green_yawgmoth 06-15-06, 02:05 AM	These are my house-rules, though I don't really think they are ridiculous.. you lemme know! :DOkay! 1) Have fun. *(If you're not, you need to pull me aside and tell me. I can be a little inept and easily distracted sometimes, but I will do everything I can to make sure you have fun.) I'd do this even if it wasn't a house rule. 2) Expect everything to have a price. everything is supposed to have a price. 3) You are more than welcome to develop your own feats, prestige classes, items, and spells. These, of course, are all subject to my final approval.Excellent. I assume this means all books are okay, with your approval as well. 4) If I ever provide you with less detail in a situation that you would like, this means one of two things: I have done it purosefully, or I have simply forgotten. Either way, asking for more information is usually the best course of action.Dur. 5) If your character experiences a permenant death (Ie, you need to write up a new character sheet) you must write up a character that consists of nothing the original character was in terms of class and race. I have too many character ideas of varying levels to use the same one twice. 6) On all checks except for initiative, treat a natural 20 as though it meant perfect success. In the case of opposed checks where both rolls are natural 20's, there will be a re-roll.That's cool. So if I nat 20 my bluff check, the guy believes me whole-heartedly, even if he gets a 19 and has +5 more than my bluff bonus? 7) On all checks except for initiative, treat a natural 1 as though it meant automatic failure. In the case of opposed checks where both rolls are natural 1's, there will be a re-roll.To be expected with #6, although I hate the idea of not knowing what a wall is by nat 1-ing my knowledge (architecture) check. 8) Stabilizing in combat: Roll a d20, on a 1 or 2 on the dice, your character self-stabilizes. 10% chance, just like in the books. 9) Called Shots: You take a -4 penalty on your attack roll to aim your attack at a specific area of the target's body. There are mitigating factors which may increase or lower your opponent's AC, and when the called shot is placed to cause death or maiming, the opponent will get also reflex save (DC = your attack roll) to turn the blow back towards the bulk of their body. Should they make their reflex save, they will still take full damage, but remove the possibility of instantaneous death or loss of an important body part. Certainly not the worst called shot rule I've seen, but you're still giving the characters a way to make all of their weapons vorpal for free. 10) I do not require experience be used at all in order to craft any item, however both the time and gold cost in materials require an additional 10%. This 10% is added after the calculation of the materials price, and may be negated by opting to pay the experience anyways.So, for a 1,000gp item, I can pay 550gp or 600gp to negate the xp cost? 11) In order to scribe a spell into a spellbook, I only require 25gold per level of the spell. I never play wizards, so I don't care. :P 12) There is always a method to my madness, regardless of how it may seem sometimes. Certain things may have much deeper meaning than they appear to, but I leave it up to you to decipher them. Many of these little ' easter eggs ' may have little to do with the storyline or party, but I'd like to think they add to the overall experience. In short, there is always a reason for the situation the party has found themselves in. Um, okay...? I'd expect there to be a reason for everything you throw at your party. 13) Taking into account rule number 12, I would like to point out a great deal of the time, I simply make things up. I've detailed out the major storyline, but what you do in game actually does effect the world around you, so I will never, ever have a written-out idea for a session. As far as I know, you could bear west when I thought you were going north. No idea ever survives the PCs. Just so long as you have a general idea of what you intend to have happen, it's cool beans. 14) I reserve the right to ammend these rules at any time. I have a poor memory and I'm sure there's something I may have forgotten or may end up adding on when I reconsider it.So long as you ammend/add/delete rules before the session starts, and your players have a say in them. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Rjo 06-15-06, 02:50 AM	he wouldn't let the rouge in the group buy mithral armor he said you had to go to a dwarven smithy. Completely reasonable. Not reasonable at all. Elves use mithral to make elven chain. Dwarves use adamantine to make dwarven plate. :teach:
Crossover-Chronicler 06-15-06, 05:45 PM	Not reasonable at all. Elves use mithral to make elven chain. Dwarves use adamantine to make dwarven plate. :teach:That depends entirely on the campaign setting; in Middle Earth, IIRC, you'd go to Dwarves to get the mithril, and then to the elves to get in enchanted. More or less. Also, it's perfectly reasonable to seek out dwarves for any rare metal; how many "elven mines" have you heard of, compared to "dwarven mines"? For that matter, I seem to recall Dark Elves having a fondness for adamantine weapons, and dwarves working well with any metal. Personally, I don't stick to those kinds of rules. Humans can mine mithral just like dwarves can; it's just that dwarves, having a larger underground population and a hereditary affinity for stonework, are better at it. Plus there's trade, raiding, and the exchange of gifts or tributes. Accounting for all of that, there would be very few materials that are exclusive to a single race or culture unless it was a huge military asset or seen as too sacred to pass on to outsiders - an even then, they'd only have exclusive rights if they never lost a war.
Red Winter 06-16-06, 01:32 AM	My bad session, at the hands of a DM: 'You are kidnapped. You find yourself in a prison. The door is unlocked.' You enter an empty corridor. There is a door at the end of it. 'We open the door'. It's locked. We pick lock/kick down door. You enter an empty corridor. There is a door at the end of it. 'We open the door'. It's locked. We pick lock/kick down door. You enter an empty corridor. There is a door at the end of it. 'We check if the door is locked.' It's not locked. 'We go into the next corridor.' Do you want to open the door first? 'Yeah.' You enter an empty corridor. There is a door at the end of it. 'We open the door, if it's locked, we kick it down.' It's locked. '...we kick it down?' Okay. This honestly went on for two hours. One player fell asleep. We kill 3 dire rats. We find a gigantic golden statue with priceless gems for eyes. (In a prison?) Deciding discretion is the better part of valor, we decide not to pry the gems out of the statue. (He later confessed it was a very dangerous trap) More empty corridors with locked doors and almost computer-game like redundancy. We reach the prison warden's office. We peek inside, and see he's sitting down, smoking a pipe. We rush into the room, and get a suprise round. The game's about 3 hours old now, and we're wanting out of the prison. Simply put, we got two rounds of attacks in. We killed him before he even got out of the chair. Collect loot. +2 keen longsword. Amulet of bull's strength 3x a day that turns the wearer evil. We're level 1, btw. We exit prison and start next adventure. We see an ettin running away from a village. Player rolls a natural 20 on ranged touch attack with a ray of enfeeblement. The DM states, "His dexterity is too high. He dodges it." Argument arises about the 'dodging of the ranged touch attack', the fact that ettins don't have a dexterity bonus, and the DM states rule 0. We leave. In a few minutes' time, I'd recognized the Ettin from a prepared adventure from the D&D site anyways.
Sledeau 06-16-06, 02:02 AM	To the post above me, jesus, what a crappy DM. Though I'm ranting about mine, he's one of my best RL buds and a great DM most of the time. Okay, I'm playing a level 16 telepathic psion...we run into some custom made dragons of the DM's. Figuring that I needed to conserve some power points, I figured I'd try dominating one and using it for a while. I gave it a couple tries, all of them failing, and just gave up. A while after we were done that night he revealed that the dragon had a will save of 27. (!) Mostly boosted up to avoid me from mind controlling it, I guess. (with psionic feats I could boost up the will save dc of a dominate to around 29, 8 total dc from 26 int, 8 from the augmented power, 1 from an item, 2 from a metapsionic feat) He was probably scared because I had been two shotting a lot of stuff with a previous character, half-dragon human fighter before he had finally gotten killed on an unlucky roll versus slay living. (who we had calculated some stuff out with wrong, we're all rather new to DnD, but we all wanted to avoid making a mistake like that again) Not wanting an easy mode character like that again, I decided to crack open my new expanded psionics book and make something from there. I mean, these dragons even aren't that powerful, they aren't ancient. Probably more equivalent to a mature adult in terms of how tough they seemed (minus the will save stuff). But boosting up that will save is pretty crazy, leaving me with about a 10% chance to succeed on something that's probably around cr 18. If he made it equivalent to a mature adult red dragon he'd have about an 18 will save, about a 50% chance to succeed, where I'd still eat up lots of power points on him succeeding on the save. With a 10% chance to succeed, though, if it took me 10 tries to succeed, that's about 160 power points gone, about 2/3 of my total. :(
Jhulae 06-17-06, 12:34 PM	I saw a houserule that was just assinine. The DM didn't ban Warlocks, but.... For every Warlock level your character took, your character suffered -1 constitution point.
Elemental 06-17-06, 01:36 PM	9) Called Shots: You take a -4 penalty on your attack roll to aim your attack at a specific area of the target's body. There are mitigating factors which may increase or lower your opponent's AC, and when the called shot is placed to cause death or maiming, the opponent will get also reflex save (DC = your attack roll) to turn the blow back towards the bulk of their body. Should they make their reflex save, they will still take full damage, but remove the possibility of instantaneous death or loss of an important body part. Problem there is: I cast True Strike. I make a called shot to the Instant Death Area (let's say the eye or throat). I saw a houserule that was just assinine. The DM didn't ban Warlocks, but.... For every Warlock level your character took, your character suffered -1 constitution point. So in other words he banned them, he just didn't want to say flat-out he was banning them. :rolleyes:
green_yawgmoth 06-17-06, 03:19 PM	So in other words he banned them, he just didn't want to say flat-out he was banning them. :rolleyes: But he's not banning my rogue with an odd-numbered con score from taking a one-level dip in warlock so I can ranged SA at will and get a nice little at-will (Sp). Wow, this DM's a real winner at thought processes. :rolleyes: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
DMStevo 06-23-06, 10:29 AM	:bump: had to
DMStevo 06-23-06, 11:15 AM	: DM: "For f*cks sake! I decide what happens in the game, I have the RIGHT to do EVERYTHING when you're in this apartment!" As a DM, I cringe at reading this. Jack@**. :nonono:
DMStevo 06-23-06, 12:37 PM	Quote: No upgraded magic items, you want something better such as moving from a +1 weapon to a +3 you have to buy a whole new weapon. Armor max dex bonus applies to EVERYTHING include ranged attack rolls. Can't use items to reach preq. for anything. -4 AC when using ranged weapons. Well, the first 3 are pretty much RAW and the last one is a holdover from ADaD. Perhaps you can get him to change his mind on the -4 to AC if you tell him that is not a rule in 3.5. I hate to disagree, but these are not RAW by any stretch. There are rules in the DMG for upgrading magic weapons (and the Sage has talked about it in the FAQ). Not allowing this however, isn't sucha bad houserule, just slightly annoying. Armor Max Dex ONLY APPLIES to ARMOR CLASS as it says in the entry under armor in the PHB. You can use items to boost abilities for qualifying for feats. The downside of this is that if you lose the item, you can no longer utilize the feat. And the last one is just dumb. Not trying to argue, just thought i point out what's written in the RAW.
Voldar_Mecorthio 06-23-06, 02:49 PM	Here are some of mine: The Sorcerer Hater. He couldn't stand sorcerers, so he nerfed them beyond belief. If you wanted to be a sorcerer, you had to roll a d100, and you could only play if you rolled below an eighteen. "There's only a small chance you have dragon blood!" He also made you ROLL for your spells, on the scroll table, ignoring bard spells. "You dont have control over what your powers give you!" The party sorcerer (he only mentioned the roll for spells after the player decided on a sorcerer and actually rolled a 16 on the d100. Then the Sorcerer DM told him about the roll for spells, and he wanted to change to wizard but the DM said no. "You can't change your character!" He multiclassed to wizard at level 2, and since the DM didn't understand about favored class, he took a 20% XP penalty for the rest of the campaign. He also said that casting a spell cost 5 XP per level of the spell, because "magic is draining!" The nerfed sorcerer killed himself after he was level 2 when everyone else was level 5. He tried to make a new character, but the DM said he had to start at level 1. He made a monk, but died in the first encounter. He then left the game. The Elf Lover. Arwin syndrome coupled with DM favoritism. Said elves ruled the world and every other race was their slaves. Only let one player play an elf, his girlfriend. She could tell us to do anything she wanted, and we had to do it, as we were her slaves. She alloted all treasure (consisting of her getting everything good and us getting whatever she didn't want), and in roleplaying we were ignored, dismissed as "unworthy slaves". The Nerfer/ Fighter Lover. All but forced everyone to be a fighter. No mages, divine or arcane, as "they're broken". Paladins and rangers were allowed, but no spells, and paladins lost their warhorse, their immunity to disease, and their +Cha bonus to spells. Rangers lost favored enemy and the track stuff. Monks lost unarmed damage, speed bonus, AC bonus, and all supernatural abilities. No prestige classes, so the only class that wasn't nerfed was the fighter. He then gave no magical equipment. Strongest weapon in the world was a masterwork greatsword, yet monsters still had damage reduction and regeneration bypassable only by magical effects. Docter "No". If you asked, the answer was no. "Can I combine these effects? No!" Can I take this prestige class? No! Can I take this feat? No! The only things he allowed was beyond teriable feats (no chains, no metamagic, no saving throw boosting, only stuff like skill feats and stuff like track or rapid reload.) About 1% of official material wasn't overpowered. The Pervert. Did not happen to me, but was told to me by a friend. (The girl in question.) One of the players was female. Her character was introduced in the middle of an adventure, as the sex slave for the orcs they were chasing. She was found naked, and wasn't ever given the chance to get any clothes. Later in the campaign, she was hit on by every male NPC, and he set up the society so that she was arrested for wearing clothes. That's right, it was ilegal for her to not be naked! The campaign was good, except that he kept harassing her! She didn't leave, as this was the only D&D game within the area that she could find, and she loves D&D. Eventually she found another game and she left the pervert's. The Diablo Lover. Was in love with Diablo II. Every encounter was a fight, we could only carry a cetain number of items, there was mana instead of spell slots, when a monster died we immediatly got treasure, there was absolutely no roleplaying, we never even went into a civilized town. We never even saw an NPC who didn't attack us! He honestly started a session with "roll for intitive". I left after the second session, which honstestly constisted of us killing a bunch of monsters and getting treasure. No explaination of where we were, why we were there, or why the monsters were attacking us. Just fighting.
00_Whupass 06-23-06, 03:38 PM	A good friend of mine was DMing his first 3.5 edition game, he'd done no DMing since 2nd edition, as was to be expected he didn't care for all of the changes that were made between editions and therefore made efforts to shoehorn some second editon rules into 3.5, and also made some other changes. I will add them and my comments here: Modified 2nd ed like rules for weapon proficiencies. Fighters, Paladins, and Rangers start proficient with 4 weapons, Clerics, Druids, Monks and Rogues with 2, Wizards and Sorcerers with 1, and then get a single additional weapon every 3rd BAB increase. This wasn't terribly bad, the biggest problems were that in the eyes of this system there was no distinction between simple, martial or exotic. Normally these three different classifications serve as a balancing point (exotic weapons are typically more powerful, but thats ok because you have to spend a feat to become proficeint), this was not the case here. It also raise confusion about PrCs that require proficiency with "All Martial weapons" The reintroduction of Weapon speed into the initiative system. This was cumbersome in practice. It made initiative much more complicated, since the order of turns changed more than it normally does. If for instance I started the battle with my Dagger in hand its weapon speed was 1 so I subract 1 from my initiative to find my true place in the order. Oh but we noticed the approaching orcs for 178 ft away, so I drop my dagger and ready my crossbow, uh oh, the speed of a crossbow is 8, so my place in the intiative order changes and its no longer my turn. It was frustrating. The single biggest frustration about this campaign was the house rules designed to create PCs who were devout supplicants to a god. In fairness to the DM he did state outright at the begining of the champaign that the gods of this setting were VERY active and would be taking an active role in the peoples daily lives. If you PC went to his temple regularly, and prayed daily the DM would routinely add Divine bonuses to your attack rolls or skill checks, or saving throws, likewise if your character was irreverent or blasphemed he would apply divine penalties to the same sorts of actions as the gods took an interest in watching you fail. This made things especially difficult for my character who had in his youth been tricked into making a deal with a devil to summon it to the material plain in exchange for power (he was a warlock), after summoning the devil only to see it slaughter his entire villiage, he no longer has any trust in so called "Higher beings" with promises of salvation or power. Joe if you read this, your campaign was tons of fun and you were a great story teller, but some of your house rules gave incentives for players to play particular types of characters, which can stifle the fun of people who like to explore other archtypes.
DMStevo 06-24-06, 06:00 PM	Here are some of mine: The Sorcerer Hater. Is he kidding? Sorcerers are rumored to be vastly underpowered not over powered, definitely not in need of nerfing. The Elf Lover. Ugh. Just Ugh mixed with more ugh. LOTR fanboy + special treatment for the GF. Guess p***y really is powerful :D The Nerfer/ Fighter Lover. Can't....speak....DM....face.....hammer. .....you get the gist. Docter "No". Jerk who thinks he knows better than the career roleplayers who wrote this stuff. (I means some things need a little tweaking, but 99% of core material broken?!) Get you ego away from my game. The Pervert. Great job dude. Way to scare off a female gamer. If this girl was hot as well the other players should have beaten this DM with hammers for scaring her away. The Diablo Lover. Hey I love diablo 2 as well, but even diablo has a plot! Stupid...just stupid. I weep for you, sir. :nonono:
Voldar_Mecorthio 06-24-06, 07:47 PM	Don't weep too much. These were just games that I found off various find-a-game places. I stayed a couple sessions then left. I am now in a game where [gasp!] there are no idiots.
Sssargoth 10-17-06, 07:32 PM	*slinks in*:shifty: :bump: :shifty: *slinks out*
Voldar_Mecorthio 10-17-06, 08:12 PM	Wow, I had no idea this thread wasnt dead. There's a new one on General, and frankly I think we should let this one pass into the shadows. By the way, Sssargoth, why did you resurect a four month old thread?
Sssargoth 10-17-06, 08:25 PM	I didnt know there was another thread that replaced this one.
speeblefreak 10-18-06, 12:31 AM	I posted this in a separate thread, but now that I see this thread lives again... Adventure a little, rest a lot Time needed to level up in the same class: 2-3 weeks Time needed to multiclass: 1 month Time needed to prestige-class: 8-9 weeks
Sulaco 10-18-06, 09:33 AM	Isn't bumping a dead-thread technically a CoC violation?
speeblefreak 10-18-06, 07:57 PM	Isn't bumping a dead-thread technically a CoC violation? No, bumping of a thread multiple times in 48 hours is the violation.
Feriin 10-19-06, 09:29 AM	Hey, I resemble that remark, and I have never threatned a DM with violence. Hell, I'm even a weightlifter and in the boxing club, still, no threat of violence towards the DM or my fellow players. Stereo typing is just wrong man. Prejudiced against the Jock-man, I see how it is. Thats just ignant dawg. I do not threaten my DM either, I simply inform him what will happen if he does something stupid. I then follow through with it when he does something stupid. Note. I have never done anything more severe than throw my dice at him. The sob usually dodges them anyway. It would be unfair for me to anything physical against him, since I out weigh him by about 120 lbs. (we have been good friends since 1st grade). (I play Semi-Pro football, am a weightlifter, and also practice the martial arts.)
Sulaco 10-19-06, 09:39 AM	No, bumping of a thread multiple times in 48 hours is the violation. That is also a violation.
raidzuo 10-19-06, 06:14 PM	Some of my house rules during 2nd edition. I used them in 3.0 for awhile (I don't house rule anymore). Here are the bad ones: -I can change any rule I want, whenever I want. If you don't like it then get out! I'm not sure if I ever did this, unless we found a loop-hole or something. No one ever complained at least. -Clerics and Wizards may take the "Total Recall" proficiency, and are no longer required to memorize spells or use spell components Madness! This was before sorcerers and the eschew materials feat. -Clerics may pray for a spell or spell-like ability that is not listed in the Player's Handbook. This action requires one round. DM discretion advised. Too powerful obviously -- but it seemed to make sense at the time. -If you change alignment, you drop one level; 1 experience point away from leveling up. I still like this one, but don't use it :( The not so bad ones (don't read these): -Your body is pulverized (cannot be salvaged for ressurection) when your negative HP total is equal to -10, or your HP maximum (which ever value is higher). -If you have more than 50 HP, death from massive damage is equal to 50 or your maximum HP *0.5 (which ever is higher). -When an opponent flees, you may roll to hit them even if it isn't your turn. I stole this from warhammer; it's basically an attack of opportunity. -When you are attacked in melee, you may sacrifice one of your attacks and make an attack roll. If your attack is equal to the AC your opponent hit, you deflect the attack. Pretty much combat expertise. -If your THACO is 0 or below, you may divide your THACO by 4, and add the result to your AC. Again; combat expertise, unettered defense, etc. Spell specialization (also greater, master, and grandmaster) proficiencies. Identical to the old weapon specialization proficiencies; except you picked one spell and applied the bonuses (if applicable). Equivilent to empower, maximize, etc.
raidzuo 10-19-06, 06:18 PM	(I play Semi-Pro football, am a weightlifter, and also practice the martial arts.) Or a greasy pork sucker.
Dhaise 10-19-06, 06:41 PM	Here's some I've seen in various editions: A natural 1 is an attack damaging yourself (they modified it in 3.x to automatically provoking AoO's to all adjacent foes). This only affects PC's. Cinematic Combat-in the first 3 rounds of any 'big boss' encounter, all AC's ,Saves and Spell resistance checks are doubled (or tripled if the DM deems it dramatic). This gives the boss time to cast his spells, summon backup etc. If a PC falls in battle and is not ressurected or revived, his stuff may be freely divided up among all player characters save 1 itemof the players choosing, which will be offered to the player's new character at the first opportunity. Nonspellcasters who have seen a spell cast recognize it on sight, regardless of who/what is casting it. Any player character ,regardless of alignment can 'pray' for divine interventation simply by speaking aloud and asking a particular deity for aid. The Dm involved rolled percentiles and if successful, would instantly end the encounter as an automatic victory. You could attempt this effect as many times as you wished, until a particular deity answered-then you had to switch to invoking a different god. That group generally had every player attempting to invoke deities every round. Clerics could invoke whoever they liked,regardless of religon, professed alignment, or situations. A Paladin who does not observe an evil act by his comrades is absolved of all responsibility. The Warrior could even ask to borrow his holy sword while the Paladin gathers firewood and return it bloody with no harm done as long as the paladin did not question the fresh blood on the blade and the missing goblin who had surrendered without a fight. No player could 'fail' the effects of a save or die spell. If they rolled a failure,it was treated as a success. If a player rolled a nat 20 save, the effect was reflected to the attacker instead.
gojutremere 10-19-06, 06:47 PM	I have a friend who when he starts games above 1st level has an...interesting...yeah interesting method of determining starting gold and equipments. He rolls on the random item generation tables from the DMG until the amount of GP worth of gear is equal to your starting wealth. If an item puts you over this amount, you receive the already rolled items and the remainder in hard currency. You may then sell any items you dont want (for example my 6th level monk with several scrolls and a magical longsword) for one half market price. One campaign he "blessed" us with the ability to trade items amongst the party members. He otherwise is not a bad player, bad DM, or a bad guy. Just really goofy. So I dont mind playing with him, I just dont play in any game he runs which starts above 1st level.
DarknessEternal 10-19-06, 06:56 PM	He rolls on the random item generation tables from the DMG until the amount of GP worth of gear is equal to your starting wealth. If an item puts you over this amount, you receive the already rolled items and the remainder in hard currency. You may then sell any items you dont want (for example my 6th level monk with several scrolls and a magical longsword) for one half market price. That's actually a decent idea (just not so decent implementation).
gojutremere 10-19-06, 07:05 PM	That's actually a decent idea (just not so decent implementation). The problem with this is that if Ive only got 9000gp at 5th level, wouldnt that represent me previously having sold the items I didnt want/need for half market value? I have no problem with the idea but the implementatijon is terrible. It can and has resulted in characters starting out with significantly (often half to 2/3) less gold worth of gear that they should have. Which wouldnt be so bad but there was no consideration taken by the DM in his encounters. This could have made for a skill and role-play heavy game, which would have alleviated many of the problems with being undergeared. However, the DM was uninterested in anything but hack and slash.
chava 10-19-06, 07:28 PM	Let me list one of my DMs, Said he wanted a 3.0 campaign (hates 3.5 with a passion because he thinks that the new spells are too weak yadda yadda) ... I was getting sick of a wizard that had NO use because I had so few spells and no magical equipment. I should also add that the dwarf had two nice items, adamantine warhammer and an adamantine suit of fullplate. The halfling had two masterwork daggers and a riding dog. The monk had...ok the monk might have been worse off than me. The paldin had a holy avenger, +5 suit of fullplate, a ring of shocking grasp that turned any weapon he touched into a shocking weapon, cloak of charisma +2 etc etc. Heehee, shocking grasp is an arcane-only spell... In such a campaign, use magic device is your friend - then it doesn't matter if it's divine magic. And your sorcerer should get shiny pretty weapons ... or be a not-nice person and take Vow of Poverty, then you don't need his magic items because you have transcended above the need for material possession and link that with your spontaneous spellcasting being due to a celestial bloodline.... God, it's a good thing I normally dm - I like thinking of completely IC reason to do things that the game setting doesn't normally allow for.
Voldar_Mecorthio 10-19-06, 08:50 PM	I posted this in the other thread, but this is bad enough to go on both. I completly perverted DM I played with for ten minutes had a chart of sexual stuff girls could do to get bonuses. Wearing revealing clothing got her a 10% XP bonus, making out with him got a legacy item of her choice, and letting him photograph her naked let her play a gestault character. There were more, but I don't want to make this thread X rated. Even scarier was that there was a girl who did almost all of the stuff on his list. *shudder* I stayed precisley 39 seconds after he told me of this perverted horror.
Archangel62 10-20-06, 12:00 AM	Heehee, shocking grasp is an arcane-only spell... In such a campaign, use magic device is your friend - then it doesn't matter if it's divine magic. And your sorcerer should get shiny pretty weapons ... or be a not-nice person and take Vow of Poverty, then you don't need his magic items because you have transcended above the need for material possession and link that with your spontaneous spellcasting being due to a celestial bloodline.... God, it's a good thing I normally dm - I like thinking of completely IC reason to do things that the game setting doesn't normally allow for. Remember it was set in 3.0, Wizards didn't get use magical device. Also didn't have vow of poverty for the same reason. Also I was trying to be as nice as I could in that game but, well the DM said 3.0 and core only for it because he didn't want 'broken' material in... And if you want to know what happened in other games of his or ones I ran in with him playing in them just ask I have a bunch of odd stories.
robertliguori 10-20-06, 05:26 AM	I posted this in the other thread, but this is bad enough to go on both. I completly perverted DM I played with for ten minutes had a chart of sexual stuff girls could do to get bonuses. Wearing revealing clothing got her a 10% XP bonus, making out with him got a legacy item of her choice, and letting him photograph her naked let her play a gestault character. There were more, but I don't want to make this thread X rated. Even scarier was that there was a girl who did almost all of the stuff on his list. *shudder* I stayed precisley 39 seconds after he told me of this perverted horror. But...but... OK, this DM wins something, alright. And loses at life.
Archangel62 10-20-06, 05:39 AM	But...but... OK, this DM wins something, alright. And loses at life. And possibly his soul but that's a whole other issue and topic.
zvbxrpl 10-21-06, 03:13 PM	Worst DM experience I had: I join a party that is around level 4-5, so I toll a level 4 character. He didn't give me any restrictions other then 'The main 3 books'. I rolled my character, wanted to make a swashbuckling type light fighter, specializing in rapier. He didn't allow me to buy any magic items, gave me some random out of the book, but let me buy some things normally (so I had a masterwork rapier, was lucky enough to get a chain shirt +1) So we adventure for a while. After 2-3 levels, I'm noticing everyone in the party has magical weapons, but I'm still using my masterwork rapier. I ask the GM... "Oh. This world doesn't have any rapiers, because I hate them." ... Why does he hate rapiers? There is nothing about them that is worthy of hate, or for that matter, of love. They are skinny swords, end of story!
furor 10-21-06, 03:38 PM	I posted this in the other thread, but this is bad enough to go on both. I completly perverted DM I played with for ten minutes had a chart of sexual stuff girls could do to get bonuses. Wearing revealing clothing got her a 10% XP bonus, making out with him got a legacy item of her choice, and letting him photograph her naked let her play a gestault character. There were more, but I don't want to make this thread X rated. Even scarier was that there was a girl who did almost all of the stuff on his list. *shudder* I stayed precisley 39 seconds after he told me of this perverted horror. unless the girl was there to verify it then hes full of ****, and if she did actually do it, she probably looked like jabba the hutt and cher's lovechild after a good beating. thats a sad cry for help, very sad indeed.
Asciiman 10-21-06, 03:53 PM	But...but... OK, this DM wins something, alright. And loses at life. ZINGER!!! Nice one.
raidzuo 10-21-06, 07:20 PM	I just played a game last night with a DM I haven't played with in years. These aren't so much house rules as they are "made up on the fly" rules; that are solidified in stone the moment they are made. - Invisibility ends when you take damage. - Familairs don't provoke AoO when they attack. - No errata on the spell compendium (Belkar claw 2d12, sound lance 1d8, etc.). - Magic skill bonus modifiers don't apply to your craft skill checks (as a 10th level cleric I have +26 from spells). - Players don't lose xp for multi-classing in non-favored classes. - It takes 4 hours to memorize your spells. - It's "difficult" to summon demons, devils, angels, celstials, etc. via the summon monster spell; and requires an arbitrary caster check (I don't know the value). - We do strength, Intelligence, charisma checks etc. - Half the time we are told to roll "ability" checks, we fail (I once rolled a 20 and failed -- with an intelligence of 20). - Not a house rule, but I get harrassed by the DM everytime I try to use energy substutution and sculpt spell with arcane thesis. We get new house rules everygame. Maybe in a few weeks or so we'll have more house rules, and I'll post them :)
Voldar_Mecorthio 10-22-06, 11:04 AM	-Invisibility ends when you take damage Either a hater of steath or paranoid that you might do something like coup de grace the BBEG. -Familiars don't provoke AoO when they attack Tolerable but stupid. -Magic skill bonus modifiers don't apply to your craft skill checks Considering how little the craft skill comes into play this isn't too bad, but that's still idiotic. Why not? -Players don't loose xp for multiclassing into non-favored classes. An okay rule. I use this too, I advocate multiclassing strongly. -It takes 4 hours to memorize your spells You mean instead of the 8 hour rest? If so that's okay. But if you mean on top of, that's just stupid on twelve different levels, what's the point of that?! -It's difficult to summon... WHY? DM apparently hates summoning, probibly thinking it's overpowered. Educate him about this. -We do ability checks ...Don't we all? -Half the time we roll ability checks we fail Railroading. He probibly has it written down when you succeed and when you fail. Hit him in the face with a large piece of wood or metal. If you don't have a problem with this idiocy, good for you, but I can't see how could couldn't be annoyed by this.
DarknessEternal 10-22-06, 01:45 PM	-No errata on the spell compendium Why?! Errata is official WotC stuff, it's fixing their typos and/or revising stuff they realized in hindsight was too good/bad There is no official errata for the Spell Compendium. -Harassed by DM for using energy substitution... He probibly is paranoid of optomization. Point out that it's a fully legal combo and isn't really that powerful. If he disagrees try something from the CharOp board to put him in perspective. My personal favorite is usign Create Object to create antimatter. Arcane Thesis should not allow you to lower a spell's level. That's just assinine. Also, there's no such thing as anti-matter in D&D.
slaveryISfreedom 10-22-06, 03:49 PM	I'm not really going to vent about it but you guys seem to have alot of experience on what NOT to do. Would you critique a post about my dms house rules? http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10428706#post10428706 anyhoo, it was funny reading your stories
Voldar_Mecorthio 10-22-06, 03:50 PM	Whoops. Edited. And the existance of antimatter is up to the DM.
Draz 10-23-06, 10:10 PM	Do you guys think this is unreasonable? Instead of rolling saving throws, your saves get turned into a fixed number (10[maybe 11]+base save+ability modifier). The save DC get turned to d20+spell level(or equivalent)+ability modifier. I think this will cut down on dice rolling, but is it fair to players?
DarknessEternal 10-23-06, 10:38 PM	Instead of rolling saving throws, your saves get turned into a fixed number (10[maybe 11]+base save+ability modifier). The save DC get turned to d20+spell level(or equivalent)+ability modifier. I think this will cut down on dice rolling, but is it fair to players? I think I'll suggest this to my group. Yes, it's fair; it's mechanically equivalent.
Chrono Nexus 10-23-06, 10:41 PM	If an LA isn't listed, it's a player race. >_<
Deekin 10-24-06, 01:59 AM	Do you guys think this is unreasonable? Instead of rolling saving throws, your saves get turned into a fixed number (10[maybe 11]+base save+ability modifier). The save DC get turned to d20+spell level(or equivalent)+ability modifier. I think this will cut down on dice rolling, but is it fair to players? That's technicly not a house rule. It's a reverse of the varyant "players roll all the dice" in Unearthed Arcana.
speeblefreak 10-24-06, 10:25 AM	If an LA isn't listed, it's a player race. >_< Is that "no LA entry" or "no number given?" Meh. Either way. Hecatonchieres dervish here I come!
Elemental 10-24-06, 12:21 PM	My bad session, at the hands of a DM: [list] 'You are kidnapped. You find yourself in a prison. The door is unlocked.' .... This honestly went on for two hours. One player fell asleep. We kill 3 dire rats. We find a gigantic golden statue with priceless gems for eyes. (In a prison?) Deciding discretion is the better part of valor, we decide not to pry the gems out of the statue. (He later confessed it was a very dangerous trap) Taking those parts, it sounds like somebody modelled an adventure on The Eye of Argon. (http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/SF-Archives/Misc/eyeargon.html)
FeceMan 10-24-06, 01:38 PM	Sound lance is awesome.
Archangel62 10-24-06, 03:30 PM	Is that "no LA entry" or "no number given?" Meh. Either way. Hecatonchieres dervish here I come! Don't forget all those Hitdice however...let's see that would be somewhere around level 150 i think.
elondir 10-24-06, 03:43 PM	Don't forget all those Hitdice however...let's see that would be somewhere around level 150 i think. Who cares about leveling when you're already mythic level and take perfect multiweapon fighting in place of some other feat? :eek:
Archangel62 10-24-06, 10:39 PM	Oh sure, but the level adjustment is still factored in by HD.
Sulaco 10-26-06, 05:00 PM	Worst DM experience I had: ... After 2-3 levels, I'm noticing everyone in the party has magical weapons, but I'm still using my masterwork rapier. I ask the GM... "Oh. This world doesn't have any rapiers, because I hate them." The worst is that this smug prick was setting you up for this. He let you take a rapier even though "(the) world doesn't have any rapiers" and you know he was sitting on that stupid line forever, just waiting until you asked about it so he could drop his "funny" line, humiliate you, and make himself feel like a champ. Frak I hate ***holes like that! :mad:
HermitIX 10-26-06, 07:36 PM	The only one that comes to mind is a rule a friend of mine implemented for one of her games. She feels that if you don’t have any ranks in knowledge (subject) then you know NOTHING about it. My deity was Olidammara she didn’t let me know his holy symbol when I saw it! ARG!
Urban Sniper 10-27-06, 02:05 AM	I can't help myself. I just have to vent, lol. Be prepared for some length: That horrible DM I've suffered with for so long finally crossed the line. Me and another friend who like things like free will both quit this DM's game on the same night, after far too long suffering from this stuff. The DM has apparently had this homemade campaign setting brewing for a while, and got all excited when he finally found time to make it out and run it. I figured, what the heck, give it a shot. I knew I should have run for the hills when he agreed to let me play a succubus (minus racial HD, but with all stat modifiers and racial abilities) at basically a +2 LA (though he called it CR, and wouldn't beleive me that that was for monsters only...), and my friend was playing a half-farspawn. So, his campaign starts with us getting summoned into it (since it's completely broken off from the rest of the multiverse). Guy who summoned us gets hit with a Vengeful Gaze of God and killed outright. Being 3rd level, just the two of us, we are set upon by a group of 4 guards who had at least a level in one of the DMs prestige classes (meaning they were about 6th level at least). We manage to kill one, my buddy is almost dead, and my teleport isn't working, so the emperor of this place shows up and wants to know what we are. Being a demon, I'm not going to play nice with a lowly mortal, so I make a smart remark and ready myself to fly away. This guy throws a spell on me and my friend (here's the thread on that one: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=708298 )(he's an epic caster, but this spell was a 9th level spell, not epic!!). Anyway, from this point on, it's basically "do what you're told, or you're dead." Next, we meet up with the 'warmaster.' Apparently, this guy is so badass that he took down a CR 68 dragon by himself, and with no magic items. He's also bad enough to kill this emperor and all his dozens of epics that serve him (due to the same spell as above), yet chooses not to...just because?(rumor has it that he as the apocalypse demon template from d20 Modern and just happened to be immune to everything). He's supposed to give us a combat test with the rest of the party. So, we face a bunch of some kind of minotaur with DR 5/-, and witness this guy take out one just by dropping on it (he's not a monk, he's an epic warblade / Legendary Dreadnaught, and apparently has a lot of damage behind that unarmed strike of his). He kicks another thru the wall, and leaves after saying "Follow my orders or die. Fix the wall." I'm the only one who doesn't help with the wall, and game 2 picks up the following day from this. Warmaster leading, we set out to a town (where average citizen level is at least 6) where there just happens to be some kind of tournament going on to see who can become a finalist to face (you guessed it) another epic npc for control of a merc group. Since i didn't help on the wall, I'm forbidden from participating. So I do the demon thing and ethereal jaunt into the arena and prepare myself to charge into battle against the NPC fighters. But no, before it starts, warmaster comes in and grabs me (yes, i'm still ethereal, yet he can still see and touch me). He knocks me out and tosses me out of the arena, and after I'm healed, I decide to go into town and kill some mortals by sucking their souls with energy drain (DM thought I was using normal means, and warned that the warmaster would kill me if he heard screams, which he seemed to be able to do miles away. Anyway, I basically kill of a couple dozen of these 6th levels (all PC classes, since the DM doesn't beleive in NPC classes), and when it's all over, I barely get 2000xp...maybe understandable, but techically I faced and defeated several encounters. I just wanted something to show for the time I invested in actually showing up *shrug*). So, low and behold, after this tournament, which my friend wins, the warmaster takes us toward a town in search of a madness cult (why all the dozens of epics wondering around can't handle this is beyond me), and being the demon, I refuse to listen to him. So, this whole night (4 hours to get thru that tournament), I finally come to my first die roll. It went like this: Roll initiative. He goes first. He grabs you, you die (breaks my neck, I get sent to this place's Hell). My friend refuses to follow orders without me there (we are playing lovers, just to mess with everyone more than our characters already did), so he snapped his own neck and followed me down. The game went on about 30 minutes more, before it ended and XP was handed out. I get enough to just barely gain 1 level (3 to 4), my friend gains a single level, the other person who had a choice of fighting in the tournament but didn't also gained a single level, while everyone else (the losers of the tournament) gained anywhere from 2 to 4 levels. Main reason for our quick deaths was that the DM had told us that dying would get rid of that stupid spell, and that we could find a way out of Hell to continue in the campaign. Well, next day rolls around, and I question him about the XP I feel I should've got, since I spent 4 hours unable to do anything and did rightfully earn more than that little amount. Well, he brushes this question off and says that he's been thinking and now our characters can't get out of hell. It's too difficult the way the world is set up, it can only happen once (which is an event in the 12th game, currently this is game 2 now), and even if we did come back, the warmaster would just kill us again. So, yeah, we lost our characters, and the DM got mad at me when I told him I was very p***ed off for having wasted four and a half hours of my life. His retort was that "I'm running my game how I envisioned it. I'll hear nothing else on the matter." Felt real good getting away from that one, and I must say, that it is a couple years too long in happening.
Chrono Nexus 10-27-06, 03:10 AM	I can't help myself. I just have to vent, lol. Be prepared for some length: That horrible DM I've suffered with for so long finally crossed the line... -lots of stuff- ... Felt real good getting away from that one, and I must say, that it is a couple years too long in happening. QFT That's the worst DM ever. His games lack continuity, stability, fairness, and worst of all he ignores the needs and desires of his players... may his resources collection be smited from this plane, and his die cursed for twenty generations.
Archangel62 10-27-06, 03:35 AM	Every now and again I come here to remind myself what I could become if I become too wrapped up in my games. But enough on that, here's another game I played in a few years back: Memory serves we were around level 12-14 by this point. The game was a bit Monty Haul, but I figured that as long as it didn't get obscenely out of hand I could probably deal. I was a dwarven tank fighter, then there was a Samurai, a Bard (modeled on Elan), a Druid abusing the vow of poverty and the fact that the DM refused to enforce alignment restrictions, a Rogue/Monk, a cleric of Vecna who had been lying to us saying that he's a pantheist cleric (A consequence of almost none of us having a sense motice class skill), and a transmuter wizard who joined around when I did. DM: Ok, you guys are approaching the elven city, you get a strong smell of smoke, looking ahead you see a large stone wall. Rogue/Monk: I'll climb it DM: you try but you find it too slippery Me: Umm, just so I know how big is this wall? (I had joined the campaign a few months after they started and wondered if maybe we were just at an outer wall or something.) DM: You can't see the ends of it, it seems to have just dropped onto the road and stretches to the horizons left and right. The wall itself is about 200 feet high Me: Well, how strong does the wall look? DM: Roll stonecunning...(After I roll) The wall is about 4 feet thick and is very strong. (After about 15-20 minutes of debate on what to do the wizard decided to disintegrate a hole in the stone wall) DM: Water comes rushing out at you, make balance checks... (all but the Samurai and I failed, getting knocked down the road 500 feet) Samurai: Where, pray tell, did that water come from? DM: Oh it was between the outer wall and the next one you see about 15 feet ahead of it through the hole. Us: :confused: DM: I mean that when you get to the hole you see another stone wall 10 feet from the one you just went through. Me: Same dimensions? DM: (After another stonecunning roll) Yes Luckily for our sanity the rogue decided to look through his bag and found some immovable rods, which we then used to climb to the top of wall number 2. DM: Once you get to the top you see 18 more walls, the last 10 being made out of metal. (After a series of jump checks making me very happy that I had a ring of featherfall, as well as being glad that my armor had some energy resistance on it because between the walls after a while were huge walls of fire or other energies... not to mention the bard constantly singing 'Jump jump jump accross the horrificially painful chasm' or 'Pull, pull, pull the heavy dwarf up from the bottom.') We finally make it to the end and we head down, the monk slow falling, me letting feather fall do the work, the druid turning into a rabbit and jumping on me to ride down, and the samurai rapelling down with the wizard (The cleric wasn't there for this game) Suddenly, rising out of the ground was VAMPIRIC MIST. This crap is a CR 12 by itself, but this is not 1 mist, no it is dozens. And after they surrounded us and started wailing on us, draining our con severely and the DM apparently ignoring our ACs (guy with a touch AC of 23 was getting more often than guy with touch AC of 11) And we couldn't hit these things because we never could find ghost touch weaponry and ethereal granting items are banned in this DMs game. And, of course, the mist was incorporeal, so it could go into the thick wall and keep striking us with impunity but we couldn't have a hope of touching it because after it hit us its arms melded into the wall and made it untouchable.This was bad enough, but the next part was really frustrating. The DM was claiming that these beings were intimidated by us and the firepower that we had so, in the midst of us getting torn to shreds by them (excepting the druid who was untouchable and who also refused to help us...and he remained exalted) All of a sudden the Mist ran away from us, according to the DM in fear for their existance...yeah that sorta sucked.
GreatWyrm 10-27-06, 04:42 AM	All of a sudden the Mist ran away from us, according to the DM in fear for their existance...yeah that sorta sucked. That does kind of suck, but it could've been a lot worse (see: perv DM).. maybe he just didn't realize how much vampiric mist would own on you and wanted to save you from a TPK? My story: I play with a group who are also my main group of friends. The two among them who usually DM have this rule: If they both agree on something, it automatically makes it correct, no ifs ands or buts. Period. Evidently a long time ago they never agreed on anything, so they made this rule, but now they tend to agree on more or less everything, and 85% of the time they're wrong. Most infuriating thing ever.
Archangel62 10-27-06, 04:57 AM	That does kind of suck, but it could've been a lot worse (see: perv DM).. maybe he just didn't realize how much vampiric mist would own on you and wanted to save you from a TPK? My story: I play with a group who are also my main group of friends. The two among them who usually DM have this rule: If they both agree on something, it automatically makes it correct, no ifs ands or buts. Period. Evidently a long time ago they never agreed on anything, so they made this rule, but now they tend to agree on more or less everything, and 85% of the time they're wrong. Most infuriating thing ever. That certainly sounds infuriating. And as for saving us from a TPK, I don't think so. He never had problems killing us (I posted earlier in the thread about the wandering cleric of true ressurection in another campaign we were in, I can give more details on it too if desired)
Vengeblade 10-27-06, 05:08 AM	Had a game I was in about 2 years ago, here's the gist of what happened. -Opponents armor and weapons either disappeared or were stuck beyond removing for us to gain any money for 3 levels. -Being led around by a Drizzt look alike who was actually Zaknafein looking like Drizzt for some unknown reason. -Being an evil party, we were fighting werewolves, and decided to get bitten (seriously, throwing lycanthropes at evil party is not usually smart). But no matter how many times we got bit and voluntarily failed our fort saves, nothing happened. So we asked the DM why and here's what he said, "They choose not to excrete their venom." WTF??!!?!!?!?!?!? Yeah, that didn't last much longer.
Archangel62 10-27-06, 05:20 AM	Had a game I was in about 2 years ago, here's the gist of what happened. -Opponents armor and weapons either disappeared or were stuck beyond removing for us to gain any money for 3 levels. -Being led around by a Drizzt look alike who was actually Zaknafein looking like Drizzt for some unknown reason. -Being an evil party, we were fighting werewolves, and decided to get bitten (seriously, throwing lycanthropes at evil party is not usually smart). But no matter how many times we got bit and voluntarily failed our fort saves, nothing happened. So we asked the DM why and here's what he said, "They choose not to excrete their venom." WTF??!!?!!?!?!?!? Yeah, that didn't last much longer. Sounds like he was attempting to run the game from Baldurs Gate: Throne of Baal.
Sulaco 10-27-06, 10:37 AM	"They choose not to excrete their venom." WTF??!!?!!?!?!?!? WTF indeed. Since when are werewovles venomous? Seriously, I don't understand people who DM but who also have no damned idea what they are talking about.
crinos43 10-27-06, 11:18 AM	WTF indeed. Since when are werewovles venomous? Seriously, I don't understand people who DM but who also have no damned idea what they are talking about. They don't. I was not part of these two games, but I saw some pretty bad DMs. The first one couldn't decide on how characters should be made, so he suck with his STANDARD "d20+d10." When i wrote down the standard array for characters and gave it to him, he simply told me he doesn't let PCs have below 16s for stats. The other DM was not D&D, but Star Wars, but still... He let the players gain enough Dark Side Points to make Emperor Palpatine look like C-3PO, but he then awarded enough Force Points to allow them to burn them off like no tomorrow. And when i say they gained a lot, they got about 10-12 DSP in one game, but were awarded about 15-20 Force Points at the end.
EscherEnigma 10-28-06, 01:43 PM	huh. this makes me feel a bit better about myself. but one thing DMs do that pisses me off... Throws something nasty at the party, then gets sorry when it kills a party member. Look, it can be annoying and frustrating, but if you're not going to take the time to read through the monsters description and abilities fully so that you know just what it can do to us, don't be surprised when you accidentally play it right and rip one of the player's character in twine. And then, after ripping my character in two (three times. all three I ended up in the deep negatives from almost full hitpoints. creatures out of the monster manual all) they get so apologetic. Oh, and DMs that don't give sense motive/spot/listen checks or will saves when appropriate. Like, say, when a Annis Hag is using disguise self to appear more human and we never get any kind of check to see it's not quite right despite talking and interacting with her for a while. Or, say, when a bugbear barbarian is hiding behind a pillar and spots the rogue (though the rogue has 0 chance to spot the bugbear). Now, I'm not saying that this DM has a habit of accidentally killing PCs. All his players know it already, after all.
yakalopoli 10-28-06, 01:59 PM	1. the languages your character knows only counts towards speaking and understanding... to be able to read and write the language (yes, even your base racial languages), you must devote skill points for it OR take read/write as a feat. PLUS read and write (language) were seperate 2. you can never tell which way is north, you can never tell which way you were going after a battle/sleep/conversation/stopping, you can never remember which way (entrance/exit) you came in, and you can never remember which building it was/is even if you have spent weeks going in and out of that building
The White Sorcerer 10-28-06, 04:03 PM	2. you can never tell which way is north, you can never tell which way you were going after a battle/sleep/conversation/stopping, you can never remember which way (entrance/exit) you came in, and you can never remember which building it was/is even if you have spent weeks going in and out of that building This doesn't make any sense. Did the DM give any justification to this?:ahem:
Archangel62 10-29-06, 03:37 PM	1. the languages your character knows only counts towards speaking and understanding... to be able to read and write the language (yes, even your base racial languages), you must devote skill points for it OR take read/write as a feat. PLUS read and write (language) were seperate Wow...so lemme guess they thought the fighter had too many feats and the rogues had too many skill points?
Heahengel 10-29-06, 05:02 PM	1. the languages your character knows only counts towards speaking and understanding... to be able to read and write the language (yes, even your base racial languages), you must devote skill points for it OR take read/write as a feat. PLUS read and write (language) were seperate 2. you can never tell which way is north, you can never tell which way you were going after a battle/sleep/conversation/stopping, you can never remember which way (entrance/exit) you came in, and you can never remember which building it was/is even if you have spent weeks going in and out of that building 1. I have to ask - how did he deal with the Wizard's class feature(s) involving them reading and writing (scribe scroll, the entire spellbook thing, etc). 2. I can see 'you get lost in the woods' if no one in the group has any ranks in survival or something, but that is absurd.
syrinth 10-29-06, 05:09 PM	My, occasional, DM is absolutely crazy... 1. Listen checks automatically fail when you're asleep. He won't even bother looking at your roll. 2. My psicrystal cannot perceive anything that originates outside of it's sighted range. By this I mean that if a wolf howls outside of the sighted range and whoever is on guard can hear it my psicrystal can't because it originates out of it's AoE. I'm sure there will be many, many more atrocities in the near future...
Voldar_Mecorthio 10-29-06, 08:17 PM	I just got back from a game where quite literally every single NPC was epic or almost epic level, usually 20th level monk. If you don't do what you're told they kill you. For some reason the world is falling apart and while the emperor of the empire that controls the entire freaking world is a 20th level warblade, 20th level cleric, 20th level wizard, 20th level monk, 20th level swordsage, (100th level if you dont' want to count) and your average town guard is a 20th level warblade, the task of saving the world falls on you, a party of five 1st level characters. I left when a hobo I told to get a job 1-hitted me with an unarmed strike full attack that did combined damage of 87 points of damage.
fatchuck 10-29-06, 09:41 PM	I left when a hobo I told to get a job 1-hitted me with an unarmed strike full attack that did combined damage of 87 points of damage. So, what's the problem? I thought Hobos has a LA of +8 in MM4. :rofl: Sounds like your DM needs to read up on appropriate CRs for a L1 party.
Archangel62 10-29-06, 10:09 PM	So, what's the problem? I thought Hobos has a LA of +8 in MM4. :rofl: Sounds like your DM needs to read up on appropriate CRs for a L1 party. Maybe it was an exalted hobo with vow of poverty? The DM probably wanted to maintain the game how they wanted which is pretty much having the players watch while the DM....well you know
Sulaco 10-30-06, 10:03 AM	I just got back from a game where quite literally every single NPC was epic or almost epic level, usually 20th level monk. If you don't do what you're told they kill you. For some reason the world is falling apart and while the emperor of the empire that controls the entire freaking world is a 20th level warblade, 20th level cleric, 20th level wizard, 20th level monk, 20th level swordsage, (100th level if you dont' want to count) and your average town guard is a 20th level warblade, the task of saving the world falls on you, a party of five 1st level characters. I left when a hobo I told to get a job 1-hitted me with an unarmed strike full attack that did combined damage of 87 points of damage. Some DMs are just idiots. There is no other explanation.
Archtyrant Terevoth 10-30-06, 01:27 PM	I just got back from a game where quite literally every single NPC was epic or almost epic level, usually 20th level monk. If you don't do what you're told they kill you. For some reason the world is falling apart and while the emperor of the empire that controls the entire freaking world is a 20th level warblade, 20th level cleric, 20th level wizard, 20th level monk, 20th level swordsage, (100th level if you dont' want to count) and your average town guard is a 20th level warblade, the task of saving the world falls on you, a party of five 1st level characters. I left when a hobo I told to get a job 1-hitted me with an unarmed strike full attack that did combined damage of 87 points of damage. Reminds me of everquest NPCs.
Sareld 10-30-06, 02:21 PM	I can top you all. I was playing a moon elf cleric of mystra in a rather powerful party, consisting of a troll fighter, a greater fire elemental sorceror, a Gahele cleric and some wierd fishlike monster cleric, and we were searching for a monster called "The queen of all Vampires", we had come across a good aligned vampire wizard who could walk around in daylight, and who aparently knew where this vampire queen was hiding. He agreed to tell us where if we killed an ancient black dragon that had stolen most of his treassure. In this battle the entire party, who by the way had refused to share any treassure at all with me all the way, because I "didnt deserve it if I wasnt strong enough to take it from them", died horribly, while my summoned Thouccqa (spelling?) killed off the dragon with a crit dealing 9 points of fire damage while I was at 5 HP. Long story short, I looted the corpses of the corpses of my rather wealthy party mates, and decided to sell their stuff and go shopping at the vampire wizards tower. I got, amongst many other things a scroll of plane shift and a +10 sword.. and right there a bad game got worse. This is what happened: Me (to DM): Dude, what skill do I need to roll to see what my character knows of vampires? Knowledge: Arcana? DM: Yeah, that will do. Me: *rolls* Gets a 32. DM: "You remember something about vampires not being able to cross running water, and that chopping their heads off disables them. But you are not sure." Me (In character): Lord Mortimer, you are a vampire. Tell me, is it true that your kind is destroyed if you have your head removed?" LM: "Yes. That is the most efficient way of destroying us. But you need to stuff our mouths with garlic, drive a wooden stake through our hearts and bury our head and body in seperate places for it to work permanently." Me: "Very well. In that case I wish to order a magic sword that is well capable of removing heads." (out of character): I buy a +4 keen vorpal longsword! DM: He goes to work, and after a few days you get your sword. It is beautiful, and as you swing it you can feel its immense magical power. So, I went out annd recruited a new party (who were all ****** because I didnt buy any items for them), and went vampire hunting. We found the vampire queen in a nearby village, where she was having the time of her life killing everything in sight. After a short conversation, the battle begun. She goes first, but does nothing but laugh at us. I go second: Me: I charge the vampire queen! *rolls a natural 20, followed by a 19* Yay! I behead her! DM: Read the rules, idiot. Vampires are immune to critical hits! Me: But it says in the rules for vorpal weapons that vampires are affected by the loss of their heads in spite of their immunity. DM: IMMUNE TO CRITICAL HITS! MUHAHAHAHA! At this point the vampire queen started to hover around the party at great speed while casting spells. 2 of the party members were suddenly hit by falling blue whales for 100d100 "whale damage". But as he explained: "gods of her divine rank always counts as having all random die rolls maximized", so that was 20000 points of critical hit whale damage for those two. I, however, managed to quick draw my scroll of plane shift and got out of there on my turn. At that point, I was level 13. Worst. Encounter. Ever.
syrinth 10-30-06, 02:25 PM	Well I do think that he has a point on the vorpal sword not working but as for the rest of it... oi...
HomerJaySimpson13 10-30-06, 03:07 PM	oh ya? my DM allows Clerics to spontaneously cast all their spells. how about that..:P
Sulaco 10-30-06, 03:24 PM	Worst. DM. Ever. Fixed.
Sulaco 10-30-06, 03:26 PM	Well I do think that he has a point on the vorpal sword not working but as for the rest of it... oi... From teh description of Vorpals: Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads. The description specifically allows that this weapon will behead a vampire and that, unlike other undead, it is fatal.
syrinth 10-30-06, 03:31 PM	ah k, I didn't feel like pulling open mah book to check :P Then yeah, total jerkwad.
zvbxrpl 10-30-06, 05:58 PM	At this point the vampire queen started to hover around the party at great speed while casting spells. 2 of the party members were suddenly hit by falling blue whales for 100d100 "whale damage". But as he explained: "gods of her divine rank always counts as having all random die rolls maximized", so that was 20000 points of critical hit whale damage for those two. I, however, managed to quick draw my scroll of plane shift and got out of there on my turn. :uh-huh: Whale damage? I guess he's not just a cruel DM, he's also plain stupid.
Witch 10-30-06, 06:03 PM	Whale damage sounds cool.
Voldar_Mecorthio 10-30-06, 08:27 PM	The great thing about custom spells, feats, and classes that annihalate all is that you can obtain them for yourself. If the object of your annoiance summons whales to do whale damage, do whale damage to him.
wackywizjr 10-30-06, 08:33 PM	Here is one from another DM in my group. Wizards and Sorcerers start with no spells they must find or buy thier spells, and no they do not get extra money. This rule is bad when starting a first level person, but he decided to run a high level adventure and I was asked to play the party Magic. I rolled up a 15th level sorcerer and then he tells me that I have no spells. How the :censored: does a sorc make it to 15th level without any spells?!? But being 15th level he started me with 100,000gp so I start by looking for spells to buy. The highest level spell he would let me find in a very large city (Pop 1,000,000) was 2nd. I used 20,000 in gold to pay the party rogue to aquire me some scrolls fromthe palace library. hehehehe. He came back with a bag of 40 scrolls. I managed to get a pretty good selection that way.
krossbow 10-30-06, 08:43 PM	Whale damage sounds cool. Tactical whale drops FTW.:D
bruiserdeck 10-31-06, 09:47 AM	can i vent about a rule that is a real rule that i think is stupid?? I have always violently rejected to the initiative rule that states that if you win the initiative check the opponent counts as flat footed. I can understand on a suprise or something... or even if combat starts kind of suddenly and at close range. but in the game things are supposed to be happening more or less at the same time, right? and dex bonus to armor class simply represents our natural uncontious effort to duck or dodge or block a blow right? so why is it that the game says that if you and I are fully aware of and looking at each other when combat starts and I roll a 18 initiative and you roll a 15 initiative I can charge 55 feet and bash you flat footed as if you didnt notice me coming and just stood there while I swung my sword at your head? (or shot a bow or what ever) of all the, "this is not real just a play mechanic" rules in the game that one always chaps my hide.
Urban Sniper 10-31-06, 10:19 AM	<snip> of all the, "this is not real just a play mechanic" rules in the game that one always chaps my hide. I agree with you to a certain extent, there. My main reasons for this come from my DM, who has never made an npc (well, maybe one or two) without the improved initiative feat. But that doesn't really matter. I've played a game where one of the party members had a +30 initiative at about level 30 (can't remember for sure, but I know we were epic at the time), and he went first...for the party. The big dragon (yeah, a colossal wyrm) went first! :confused: It rolled, it beat his d20+30 initiative, and it breath weaponed! Amazing what happens in those DM railroads, even to the point of saying to heck with game rules. On a related topic that seems to be unwritten in that DM's games, his NPCs can't die unless the story says they can. Example: elf pirate armed with a pair of muskets and silver bullets, double criticals vs. a wererat npc that had captured me and him after our escape. The DM even admitted to the player that the 40 or more damage inflicted by the silver bullets was more than enough to kill the rat, but his reasons he didn't die was because it wasn't time for it in the story. :pbbbtt:
Sulaco 10-31-06, 11:02 AM	and dex bonus to armor class simply represents our natural uncontious effort to duck or dodge or block a blow right? Wrong. The DEX bonus to armor class represents a conscious efffort to duck or dodge a blow. Only when someone becomes truly skilled and experienced do they gain Uncanny dodge, which is an unconscious efffort to duck or dodge a blow.
LoNLinaChan 10-31-06, 11:51 AM	My DM is a crack head. Heres the premis. Our party is a disbanded goverment black ops group. We got disbanded for botching a scroll recovery job when we were lvl 5. Our dm is rather insistant in using his npc the same level thus equil half black dragon half orc. But needless to say my charactor got jacked in the encounter we botched when I searched the mundane backpack and happened to miss the bag of holding even with my detect magic up thus have been hanging around the astral plain after tossing the backpack into my havorsack. Now we're lvl 7 and my party has returned me to this plain. Still not the not modern Japan where my charactor came from. (Really long story) When I get back I learn we are now in the bum crack of the world. This is how you get fired apparently. Having collected my new gear and gifts from my interm charactor. (yet anouther long story) So now we are dredging through the primal forest to a boarder city in order to get competent help to go back to civilized life. We come to a sign that say pay 100gp ea or Dragon kill you. I paid. Why not? My charactor is actually an uber-rich girl; and as she is a mage in the realm (wild mage in actuality) she was saving up anyways. This made him very sad. No ambush for us. So now the five of us and our lvl6 npc cleric (later to be discovered to be lvl6fighter as well) are trecking through. Since nothing want to fight the great black wyrm no random encounter, and we only 600xp till lvl. Come across a kobald collecting the loot. We have a discussion about why I should let it live, me and the kobald that is. Find out the kobald tribes work for dragon. Groovy. Day 2 of five day trip while setting up camp a caravan get the ambush for not paying. Well being inteleget for a wizard; what a shock eh; I quaff two potions fly invisability. Fly over to check it out. Our half-fiend/half-ogre (don't ask) saves the woman running with her baby(please don't ask) I arive over the battle field and spot 30 kobalds laying siege to this group. Firing heavy crossbows every round. I cause a siece fire by speaking to them in draconic. I find out they didn't pay the toll. I ask how many are alive, 7 (nine when you count the running woman) I pay thier toll. The kobalds retract. We collect the survivors and pay the additional toll for the unacounted for. We press on. One more encounter before we reach the city (which puts Waterdeep to shame, and is in the absolute middle of no where)a Madusa. We do some mundane stuff. The game wraps up. Our dm declares we did not lvl. accoarding to him the combat with 30 kobalds as well as the madusa could not give us 600 exp each as we had to share it with the entire party you know our party of 5 lvl 7 charactors, 1 lvl 12 npc( that did not act), 2 lvl 2 npc caravanors (that did not actact), 5 lvl 1 npc (didn't act), 2 lvl 0 small children npc (need i say it did not act) which made out party effective lvl 15 accoarding to him. I looked at him and said so next time kill all of them so you can get more then 2 exp. Of coarse the cleric is weilding a +10 weapon and full plate thats buffed to no end. Here I thought we were in the middle of no where.
Erato 10-31-06, 02:48 PM	My (former) DM’s only rule: No metagaming allowed. Not in itself bad, but here’s how the DM interpreted ‘metagaming’: DM: ‘The bad guys take your weapons and armor, and lock you up in different cells. The doors look very solid, have no keyhole and are bared from the other side, so you can’t pick the locks. Also, you are chained to the wall.’ Player 1: ‘Did they find the hidden dagger in my boots?’ DM: ‘Yes, they found it’ Player 2: ‘Did they take my hairpins?’ DM: ‘Yes, they took them’ Player 3: ‘What about the small folding knife in my cleavage?’ DM: ‘It’s gone’ Player 2: ‘So they basically strip searched us?’ DM: ‘Yes they strip searched you’ During a break, the Dm speaks privately with the guy playing rogue and later informs us that several hours have passed (the fighter tried 27 str-checks to break lose, without any success). Rogue (while opening the prison door to the cells and freeing everybody): ‘Come with me!!!’ Player 1 :confused: : ‘How did you escape?’ Rogue: ‘No time. Come on!’ We escape, get our equipment (conveniently stored in chests near the exit) and heads for the nearest forest. Later, while sitting around our campfire: Player 1 (to rogue): ‘So how DID you escape, anyway?’ Rogue: ‘I picked the lock in my cell’ Player 2: ‘Your door had a keyhole?’ Rogue (annoyed): ‘Yes, apparently they didn’t see me as a threat.’ Player 3: ‘So….they put the guy with the thieves’ tools in the ONLY cell with a lock to pick?’ :confused: Rogue: ‘Yes….’ Player 3: ‘So, what did you pick the lock with? We found your lock picking tools beside our confiscated equipment.’ Rogue: ‘I had a fork’ Player 2: ‘A FORK!?!?!?’ Rogue (even more annoyed): ‘Yes I had a hidden fork’ Player 3: ‘Where did you hide it? There’s only one place they didn’t search me, and you can’t have a fork up your :censored: ’ Rogue: ‘I HAD A FORK UP THERE, OK!?!?!?’ Player 1 (suspicious): ‘How could you reach that fork with your arms chained to the wall? And how come you knew the exact way out of the prison?’ Rogue: …….. Player 3: ‘There’s something you’re not telling us’ DM :censored: : You are METAGAMING, you have no reason too distrust the rogue, and you ONLY do it because you knew we talked in private. :hoppingma Me :bored: : ‘Listen my character has an 18 int, a good wisdom, max ranks in sense motive and she has known the rogue for 2 days. Don’t you think she’ll distrust people who claim to: A) have a fork inserted where-the–sun-don’t-shine (to be polite) B) be able to reach it with his hands chained above his head C) be able to use said fork to pick locks D) look like the stereotypical sneaky thief and still be locked in the cell with the worst security E) lead people out of a prison he claims never to have been in before, without taking a SINGLE wrong turn’ :banghead: DM : Your character knows nothing about lock picking Me: None of us, players or DM, knows anything about lock picking. But it still sounds silly. :rolleyes: It turns out, that the DM and rogue had planed something with the rogue cutting a deal with the BBEG. We actually never suspected this, since the rogue’s player is notorious for wanting to solo-game and keep secrets. He never screws the party over or anything, he just want some time playing alone with the DM to feel special and know something the rest of us don’t know (and don’t care about either :rolleyes: ). The sad thing is; if the rogue had just claimed to have wiggled out of his chains and tricked a lone guard to open the door, we probably would have believed him. But nooooo, the idiot has to start blabbing about a freaking FORK! :rant: My lesson: You are only metagaming, if you solve the puzzles the DM didn’t want you to solve
bruiserdeck 10-31-06, 02:51 PM	Wrong. The DEX bonus to armor class represents a conscious efffort to duck or dodge a blow. Only when someone becomes truly skilled and experienced do they gain Uncanny dodge, which is an unconscious efffort to duck or dodge a blow. you miss understand me. I dont mean an unnatural spider sence like attempt to dodge.. i mean a "you just watched a guy run 50 feet with a two handed sword swinging horrizontaly at neck level" attempt to eveade the blow.
Sulaco 10-31-06, 03:29 PM	you miss understand me. I dont mean an unnatural spider sence like attempt to dodge.. i mean a "you just watched a guy run 50 feet with a two handed sword swinging horrizontaly at neck level" attempt to eveade the blow. But as you point out this is all happening simultanously. You didn't "just watch a guy run 50 feet with a two handed sword swinging horizontaly at neck level," he is doing that and your are reacting to it at the same time. His higher init means that he was a bit too quick for you this time out and that he caught you a little off guard. If you don't like it then change it, but don't kid yourself that it is somehow more "realistic" or "logical."
Sulaco 10-31-06, 03:37 PM	you miss understand me. I dont mean an unnatural spider sence like attempt to dodge.. i mean a "you just watched a guy run 50 feet with a two handed sword swinging horrizontaly at neck level" attempt to eveade the blow. But as you point out this is all happeneing simultanously. You didn't "just watched a guy run 50 feet with a two handed sword swinging horizontaly at neck level," he is doing that and you are reacting to it at the same time; trying to get out of the way, drawing your own weapon, etc. Also, actively reacting to a threat is not an "unconscious effort," it is a highly conscious one; - "spider sense" has nothing to do with it. If you don't like it then change it, but don't kid yourself that it is somehow more "realistic" or "logical."
bruiserdeck 10-31-06, 10:20 PM	EXACTLY... which is why i think its stupid that just because (A) rolled higher on initiative than (B). (A) gets to do what ever he wants and (B) just sits there flat footed and makes no attempt to dodge. BTW. reacting to an attack your aware of is an unconscious effort. its called a reflex. your body litteraly attempts protect itself before your brain can react. your right it is just the game rules but like i said before i think its a stupid book rule that i MUST house rule. (hm... new thread idea) personaly when i DM i make it situational. if you get a suprise round or if the battle starts very suddenly (both groups some how supprised or trying to get the jump on the other) but if you walk into a room. see some orcs on the other side and argue with each other for a moment, then run accross and swing your sword. I dont care what you initiative he sat there and watched you come at him with murderous intent he is not flat footed. I think there could be a rule or something in the game though... such as if you BOTH roll for initiative and you lose the initiative roll you get to make a reflex save to see if your flat footed or just slow on the attack.
DarknessEternal 10-31-06, 11:26 PM	which is why i think its stupid that just because (A) rolled higher on initiative than (B). (A) gets to do what ever he wants and (B) just sits there flat footed and makes no attempt to dodge. B is attempting to dodge. His reactions are slow enough that he isn't up to speed yet.
bruiserdeck 11-01-06, 12:15 AM	if he is attempting to dodge he is not flatfooted then is he? /shrug/ what ever. stupid to me so i house rule it.
Sulaco 11-01-06, 09:44 AM	EXACTLY... which is why i think its stupid that just because (A) rolled higher on initiative than (B). (A) gets to do what ever he wants and (B) just sits there flat footed and makes no attempt to dodge. >sigh< Once more from the top... These actions are occurring simultaneously - that means at the same time. Characetr (B) is not "just sitting there flat-footed and making no attempt to dodge," he is just not doing a very good job of it cos (A) got the drop on him. This happens all the time in real-life. The term "flat footed" was not invented for D&D, it is an extant term which means "Unable to react quickly; unprepared" and that is preceisly what the first-round flat-footed rule represents. As I said, if you don't like it then change it but don't fool yourself into believing it is more "realistic" to do so. BTW. reacting to an attack your aware of is an unconscious effort. its called a reflex. BTW, don't presume to lecture me on basic information, particularly if you cannot do so with proper grammar, capitalization, and punctuation. I am very well educated and intelligent and am quite well aware of what reflexes are, and I am also well aware - apparently moreso than you, it would appear - that they don't always kick in when you need them.
Sulaco 11-01-06, 09:47 AM	if he is attempting to dodge he is not flatfooted then is he? No, he is just not dodging very well. The key wor dis "attempting." /shrug/ what ever. How does the incredibly rude and dismissive "whatever" add to this discussion in any meaningful way? stupid to me so i house rule it. "To me" is the key part of that sentence. If you find it stupid then change it, but that does not make it stupid.
OneSidedDice 11-01-06, 11:13 AM	your right it is just the game rules but like i said before i think its a stupid book rule that i MUST house rule. Any arguments of logic aside, this makes things a lot less fun for rogues, beacuse they can't sneak attack in certain surprise rounds or after them. I know this, because I was playing an archery-focused rogue when I had a DM decide to suddenly implement this rule. Since you can't flank, your only chance to get a sneak attack is to get the drop on your opponent, and the removal of that rule makes it nearly impossible to do. The best I could hope for is a single arrow carrying sneak attack damage in the surprise round. Wow, I meant to argue against a bad house rule, and I still ended up complaining about a DM's ridiculous house rule! Awesome! :D
Nessaj 11-01-06, 11:38 AM	"They choose not to excrete their venom." WTF??!!?!!?!?!?!? Yeah, that didn't last much longer. If they have venom, then it can be harvested and sold on the black market, just like any other poison. They should add "werewolf milking" to the list of "most hazardous occupations known." :D I would know; I play White Wolf. I almost want the Storyteller to include a "snake-oil" salesman in our Werewolf game now...Just to see someone try and milk a Garou. That would be amusing till we decide to fail our Rage rolls and eat him. Even after, it would be amusing. But I digress... I suppose I should add something of my own to this discussion. A friend of mine decided to run a game once...A homebrew campaign of his. I'm playing a gnome sorcerer illusionist (yea, yea, unoriginal, but it was my first gnome, let alone illusionist-sorcerer lol) and I can't recall anyone else's characters save the druid Master of Many Forms (broken 3.0 Masters of the Wild version). First off...I can't believe I didn't catch the fact that he ripped off an episode of Samurai Jack for this idea, considering how I loved the show (he merely said he "based it on a cartoon." In either case, we start off in our respective homes (which seemed to be a promising start. He asked us where we would be from, and who we were living with at the time. I was traveling with barbarians in the north, having made this elaborate story about dropping out of school and avoiding a rather irate wizard professor) aaaand...We all fail our will saves to get teleported away against our will to Mordenkainen's mansion. He says there's this big bad danger we need to stop and he's too busy to do it himself. Sigh. In the spirit of good friendship, we decide as a group to forgo common sense and go to this island we need to go to. So we go. We walk through the forest and after some bad descriptions come to the tower in the middle of the island. Big clearing surrounding the tower full of armor and bodies riddled with arrows. The one with the blind archers, for those who've seen the episode. Luckily, we're 15th level characters or this would have gone horribly wrong. Oh wait, it did. The druid walks into the clearing first as a tendriculous to test the archers...Aaaand gets gunned down from over 150 hit points to negative lots. Luckily none of it breached her regeneration. These archers had arrows that did approximately fifty damage a hit and had all these abilities and feats so they got approx. 8 attacks a round at +30 to hit and there were I think three archers. Sigh...If your DM ever start to brag about a monster he made himself...Do yourself a favor and eat your character sheet before he does it for you. So the druid regens and we're all WTF how do we get in this tower. We decide to use ranged spells and take the archers out from the edge of the clearing after buffing outselves to the max. Me, I cast Ghostform and use a few buffs and everyone else does the same. Three rounds we get gunned down. Near-TPK. I lived thanks to my incorporeality and the druid had both a high AC and could just regen. The other two players died horribly. So a line that has become infamous in my gaming group gets uttered. "Roll a listen check. You see a man...*Gives description.*" So Mordenkainen shows up (you know...the WIZARD) and casts True Resurrection on all of us who died. Yay. I ***** out Mordenkainen for failing to mention the death archers and what does he do? He pulls out a scarf. He says to me "if you wear this scarf over your eyes, your hearing will be advanced far beyond what it normally is. You will be able to sense their arrows and dodge them, yada yada." So I pull out the finger and say "do I look like a monk to you? Screw that!" We go back and forth and eventually I decide to put the scarf on and walk into the clearing and stand there, attempting to hear the arrows. He describes the sound of the arrows being pulled and the arrows whistling through the air. He asks me "what do you do." Um...Wait? He rolls some attack rolls. I get gunned down. I die horribly. Mordenkainen casts True Resurrection again and tells me that I was supposed to RUN across the clearing. I give him two fingers this time and the party proceeds to ignore anything he says to us from now on. We decide to finish this up if only to kill these stupid archers so the druid then turns into something that can burrow and starts doing so. We burrow under the tower and break through the floor and again, up to the top of it. I don't recall what exactly we did after this since by then I had realized what he was ripping off and stopped paying attention, but we killed the bloody archers and we got to listen to a bad dubbing of the episode's ending as we freed the archer's spirits and saved the day. Worst part is, we all (me included) gave him one more chance at running a module. Figured he couldn't possibly screw up a game that was written for him already. It actually didn't go so bad if not for his whining us bypassing the entire forest of monsters with a simple fly spell. Long story shot, the party imploded on itself cuz I played a trick on the frenzied berserker. Stupid, stupid class...
OneSidedDice 11-01-06, 11:44 AM	My lesson: You are only metagaming, if you solve the puzzles the DM didn’t want you to solve I've had experiences that prove the truth of this statement. Last year I played in a game where the DM would accuse us of metagaming whenever we were doing something he didn't like. For our first "adventure", we were hired as auxiliary security by the city guard, and ended up taking out this guy that for some reason would just hide in filth in an alleyway and attack passersby, despite the fact that he was carrying magic items and so presumably had the means to stage a more elaborate attack. We collected his items and ID'd them, and discovered that they were not very exciting. Something like a pipe that cast glyph of warding 1/week, a quill that wrote explosive runes 1/week, and a ring that cast haste 1/week. We pretty rapidly decided that the extra cash selling those items would get us was more useful than keeping them around to have access to a few mediocre or short-duration spells 1/week. Clearly the DM took the fact that we were selling his awesome custom items personally. When I was making the argument to sell, I observed that, "Well, the haste ring is only useful for five rounds out of the week, and the other two just cast spells that will pretty much require us to be stationary, whereas we're probably going to be pretty aggressive." The DM instantly seizes on this and starts doing the "metagaming dance", which involves him repeatedly jabbing his finger at me and shouting, "Metagaming! That's metagaming!" at me for about half a minute until I can get a word in edgewise. "That's you metagaming about what situations I, as the DM, will place you in." "Uh, no, that's my character speculating about what kind of tasks we, as adventurers, are going to be taking on." This sort of thing happened a few more times, but the hilarious (or depressing) part is that the "boss" encounter of that adventure arc couldn't have been defeated unless we metagamed. Prior to that session, the DM decided to inform the players of the goliath fighter and elf ranger that their characters had been carrying these golden amulets all along. Just decided to mention this to them. No, they weren't family heirlooms or of any particular significance, they both just had these golden amulets. So we get sent after this orc, and as we're catching up to him, we see him cut his three companions down, and this black ooze forms over him. We think this is not a good development, but charge into combat. The goliath and I (a swashbuckler/rogue) flank him and start dishing out a pretty impressive amount of damage, with the ranger supporting us and the cleric healing as needed. Unfortunately, this orc is just beating us to death, because we were 4th-level characters and this guy was taking two attacks per round, making him at least 6th-level. Oh, and this black ooze also had the effect of enlarging him, making his attacks even more dangerous. Throughout the combat, the DM is having us make spot checks, but apparently none of us are rolling high enough. We have to have dealt over 100 points of damage to this thing before the cleric gets knocked out, forcing us to retreat, since the goliath is in very poor condition also. We flee back to the horses, and make our retreat, getting a healing potion down the cleric as we do so. At this point the DM asks the cleric's player to step outside the room, and he comes back and says, "Uh, hey, guys, Zeus (the DM used a Greek pantheon) just sent me a vision. He says we need to use the amulets to win, and the orc is wearing one." Apparently, in order to defeat this monstrous enlarged orc, we needed to: 1) Spot the fact that any gold it was wearing wasn't covered by this black ooze (which we did, but didn't find significant). 2) Spot the fact that it was wearing an amulet identical to the ones the goliath and ranger were all of a sudden carrying (which we did not do). 3) Decide that three party members needed to be wearing these amulets. 4) Realize that we needed to sunder the amulet off the orc, and put it on one of our own party members. I should point out here that no one in the group had Improved Sunder, and the only weapon in the group even capable of making a sunder attempt was the cleric's mace. So basically we were supposed to make a dubious connection, then risk an AoO from an incredibly strong enemy to perform a task none of us are especially good at. Once divine guidance (*cough* *cough*) revealed to us the correct course of action, we sundered the amulet off the orc, and got it on the cleric. At that point, anyone wearing these amulets gained fast healing 3 and the ability to hit the orc on AC 10. Another fact the DM neglected to reveal to us is that apparently the orc had fast healing of his own, and was recovering from most of the damage we were causing to him. We were just standing there, gamely swinging away at this guy, sure that he'd drop eventually, because the DM wasn't giving us hints that the thing had fast healing. The amulets also let people cause damage that wasn't subject to the orc's fast healing. So apparently it's metagaming if you're doing something the DM doesn't want you to be doing, but it's not if it's the only way out of an encounter. Oi.
Archangel62 11-01-06, 12:53 PM	I've had experiences that prove the truth of this statement. Last year I played in a game where the DM would accuse us of metagaming whenever we were doing something he didn't like. For our first "adventure", we were hired as auxiliary security by the city guard, and ended up taking out this guy that for some reason would just hide in filth in an alleyway and attack passersby, despite the fact that he was carrying magic items and so presumably had the means to stage a more elaborate attack. We collected his items and ID'd them, and discovered that they were not very exciting. Something like a pipe that cast glyph of warding 1/week, a quill that wrote explosive runes 1/week, and a ring that cast haste 1/week. We pretty rapidly decided that the extra cash selling those items would get us was more useful than keeping them around to have access to a few mediocre or short-duration spells 1/week. Clearly the DM took the fact that we were selling his awesome custom items personally. When I was making the argument to sell, I observed that, "Well, the haste ring is only useful for five rounds out of the week, and the other two just cast spells that will pretty much require us to be stationary, whereas we're probably going to be pretty aggressive." The DM instantly seizes on this and starts doing the "metagaming dance", which involves him repeatedly jabbing his finger at me and shouting, "Metagaming! That's metagaming!" at me for about half a minute until I can get a word in edgewise. "That's you metagaming about what situations I, as the DM, will place you in." "Uh, no, that's my character speculating about what kind of tasks we, as adventurers, are going to be taking on." This sort of thing happened a few more times, but the hilarious (or depressing) part is that the "boss" encounter of that adventure arc couldn't have been defeated unless we metagamed. Prior to that session, the DM decided to inform the players of the goliath fighter and elf ranger that their characters had been carrying these golden amulets all along. Just decided to mention this to them. No, they weren't family heirlooms or of any particular significance, they both just had these golden amulets. So we get sent after this orc, and as we're catching up to him, we see him cut his three companions down, and this black ooze forms over him. We think this is not a good development, but charge into combat. The goliath and I (a swashbuckler/rogue) flank him and start dishing out a pretty impressive amount of damage, with the ranger supporting us and the cleric healing as needed. Unfortunately, this orc is just beating us to death, because we were 4th-level characters and this guy was taking two attacks per round, making him at least 6th-level. Oh, and this black ooze also had the effect of enlarging him, making his attacks even more dangerous. Throughout the combat, the DM is having us make spot checks, but apparently none of us are rolling high enough. We have to have dealt over 100 points of damage to this thing before the cleric gets knocked out, forcing us to retreat, since the goliath is in very poor condition also. We flee back to the horses, and make our retreat, getting a healing potion down the cleric as we do so. At this point the DM asks the cleric's player to step outside the room, and he comes back and says, "Uh, hey, guys, Zeus (the DM used a Greek pantheon) just sent me a vision. He says we need to use the amulets to win, and the orc is wearing one." Apparently, in order to defeat this monstrous enlarged orc, we needed to: 1) Spot the fact that any gold it was wearing wasn't covered by this black ooze (which we did, but didn't find significant). 2) Spot the fact that it was wearing an amulet identical to the ones the goliath and ranger were all of a sudden carrying (which we did not do). 3) Decide that three party members needed to be wearing these amulets. 4) Realize that we needed to sunder the amulet off the orc, and put it on one of our own party members. I should point out here that no one in the group had Improved Sunder, and the only weapon in the group even capable of making a sunder attempt was the cleric's mace. So basically we were supposed to make a dubious connection, then risk an AoO from an incredibly strong enemy to perform a task none of us are especially good at. Once divine guidance (*cough* *cough*) revealed to us the correct course of action, we sundered the amulet off the orc, and got it on the cleric. At that point, anyone wearing these amulets gained fast healing 3 and the ability to hit the orc on AC 10. Another fact the DM neglected to reveal to us is that apparently the orc had fast healing of his own, and was recovering from most of the damage we were causing to him. We were just standing there, gamely swinging away at this guy, sure that he'd drop eventually, because the DM wasn't giving us hints that the thing had fast healing. The amulets also let people cause damage that wasn't subject to the orc's fast healing. So apparently it's metagaming if you're doing something the DM doesn't want you to be doing, but it's not if it's the only way out of an encounter. Oi. Somebody mentioned the same DM earlier, slight change though as the deity in that situation was Apollo. One other incident involving metagaming went pretty much like this. I was playing a wizard in a D&D campaign that the DM had set to core only and moved us back to 3.0. What had happened was in the veinof the DM making it a low magic for the players game. We're going through the orc encampment (I had been rescued from there before, by the paladin that beat me up and dumped debris on me and kept me bound and gagged for almost an hour because I 'might be evil'. But anyhow, the orcs have a pair of apparently high level mage-warriors since they are wearing heavy armor and hurling spells left and right. They toss what looks like a storm of small fireballs at me, I comment that we should probably fall back for a bit because these guys are a lot more powerful than we were. DM screams at me for Metagaming, says that there is no way that I could know this. I comment that I am a wizard and have never seen beings that can cast spells that hurl 30 orbs that deal 4d6 damage of unknown energy that can't miss while wearing heavy armor and wielding weapons. I explain that spells like this are way beyond what my character can do and this not to mention that we're losing a large number of the militia that came to help us...and still the metagaming dance continued.
Nessaj 11-01-06, 12:58 PM	I had been rescued from there before, by the paladin that beat me up and dumped debris on me and kept me bound and gagged for almost an hour because I 'might be evil'. Um...Isn't that what "Detect Evil" is for? Or is that metagaming as well? The rest of your story is good, too, but THIS made me laugh out loud. you can never tell which way is north, you can never tell which way you were going after a battle/sleep/conversation/stopping, you can never remember which way (entrance/exit) you came in, and you can never remember which building it was/is even if you have spent weeks going in and out of that building Can I roll a Survival check to find my house? :rolleyes:
OneSidedDice 11-01-06, 01:45 PM	Somebody mentioned the same DM earlier, slight change though as the deity in that situation was Apollo. Uh, that was actually probably me forgetting I'd already posted the same story in this thread, and misremembering details. Oops! :confused:
Archangel62 11-01-06, 02:20 PM	Um...Isn't that what "Detect Evil" is for? Or is that metagaming as well? The rest of your story is good, too, but THIS made me laugh out loud. \: More accurately the Paladin detected no evil on me but decided that I might just be using some kind of magic to block the image from him. The DM commented on this and he said that it didn't matter. I then had the treasures the orcs had gathered dumped on myself and my familiar. Then, after the CN BARBARIAN saw me and freed me I explained what happened. The Paladin then told me that I owed him my life and service. When I commented on him falling the DM screamed at me for metagaming.
FeceMan 11-01-06, 05:48 PM	Sulaco: we all know of the house rules thread... well this is the book rules thread. what book rules do you simply reject on principal and replace with some house rule. most of us replace spell components with an inexhaustable spell components bag for example. personaly I cant stand the rule that says who ever has the initiative in the first round automaticaly catches the opponent flat footed (unless they have uncanny dodge) this rule is silly to me. 2 guys stand 50 feet away from each other in an arena weapons drawn ready to fight. the guard yells "FIGHT" and just because fighter (A) rolled a 18 and fighter (B) rolled a 15 fighter (A) gets to charge 50 feet and attack while (B) stands there flat footed not noticing the incoming attack. I MUST house rule this any time I DM. He made a thread on it.
fun2223 11-01-06, 09:37 PM	My DM has one rule that REALLY makes me mad:Nothing that does more than 2D10 damage magic or not, I have the right to lower your scores if I think they,re to strong, to obliterate magic items you find, and to drop meteors on your head just for fun.
Heahengel 11-01-06, 09:58 PM	My DM has one rule that REALLY makes me mad:Nothing that does more than 2D10 damage magic or not, I have the right to lower your scores if I think they,re to strong, to obliterate magic items you find, and to drop meteors on your head just for fun. Wait - so no fireball, magic missile, or half the spells in the PHB? Does he only play at low levels or something?
Sulaco 11-02-06, 09:19 AM	Sulaco: He made a thread on it. I know, I know... :nonono:
fun2223 11-02-06, 05:28 PM	Wait - so no fireball, magic missile, or half the spells in the PHB? Does he only play at low levels or something? Sumthin like that... IWANNACOOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jelmore 11-02-06, 06:42 PM	My DM has instituted a fumble policy on skills and attacks. The problem is that he doesn't tell us what the policy is. When we roll a natural one we are told to roll again. I have no idea what to add to that roll or what effect it has wether I roll low or high. IMO, to keep the spirit of the game, it should always be "meet or beat". Buy yeah, my DM has something similar. If you roll a natural 1 on a melee attack, you have to make a Reflex save or have your initiative moved to the end of the list. (Last session we had 4 or 5 characters, party and monster alike, all hovering at 1...) He also does a "critical-off-a-critical" or "open-ended critical"; if, when confirming a critical hit, you roll a natural 20, you get to roll AGAIN, to double the damage AGAIN. As long as you keep rolling 20s, you get to keep going. (The most I saw was 3 20s in a row -- the original roll, the first confirm, and the second confirm. I don't remember how much damage it was, only that it was wasted on an orc...) Even though an open-ended critical ended up one-shotting a player's character, the DM likes it, because it's "more fun." He arbitrarily decided that the coin of the realm is silver, not gold. But he has not changed the prices of anything as far as buying goes, only that wealthy patrons are offering "300 silver crowns" instead of 300 gp. When the party finally got tired of it (a whole passel of level 4-5 characters, and TWO of us have +1 magic weapons, half of the others have masterwork weapons and a couple of magic trinkets the DM handed out, and a couple of assorted potions and scrolls we've bought or created) and pressed him on it, he said he'd work up an inventory list. Not a conversion rule, like "XXX silver crowns = 1 gp" or something; no, he intends to work up all-new prices for items. (Nothing has been said about the costs of making potions/scrolls/items, or services, of material components for spells, etc.) He claims to be really big on using the skill rules, but they are arbitrarily used and enforced. And no take 10s or take 20s, either. One of the things that makes it especially hard is that we only play every two weeks, and have taken a 3-month hiatus over the summer and last holiday season, and probably will this holiday season as well. So it makes it hard to enforce consistency.
Archangel62 11-03-06, 12:30 PM	Well, had one incident of a DM who during a game 1) Decided that skill ranks no longer mattered that he would just work off of dice rolls (Did this mid-game because we were able to actually have a chance of success) 2) Spontaneously created huge fields of traps with large numbers of high damage areas, IE 20d6 of all energy types (including force) per 5 feet moved
PHGraves 11-03-06, 01:56 PM	'Partial Charge': The GM in question sprung this on us when a group of skeletons took a 5' step to get into melee. He rolled the attacks and asked our AC values. When he noticed that one of the players got missed, he said "Oops. Forgot about the Partial Charge bonus. The skeleton hits you." The weird thing is that he honestly believed that there was such a thing. Luckily, we convinced him of the error (after the game, of course). Now, anytime someone makes a 5' step into melee, they declare a Partial Charge.
The White Sorcerer 11-03-06, 01:59 PM	Partial charge was a rule in 3.0, when the game still had partial actions. I don't remember if it worked like that, though.
DarknessEternal 11-03-06, 02:34 PM	There's still a partial charge. If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.
EscherEnigma 11-03-06, 06:42 PM	I remember that partial charge too, and I'm kinda guilty of almost pulling that once on a group of players. I honestly remembered it and hadn't realized it wasn't in 3.5. Anyway, after checking real quick once they all sounded surprised at the phrase, I shrugged and said 'ok, no partial charge.' and continued. But... I'm pretty sure it DID require more then 5' of movement.
Voldar_Mecorthio 11-05-06, 06:15 PM	My current DM thinks that ToB is completely broken, and has crippled it completely. The Warblade is flat out banned, and the other two can only recover their manuvers 3+Int modifier/day. He loves mages and thinks that fighters exist only to be meat shields, not to be of any serious participation after 13th level. This is an honest quote: "Of COURSE fighter-types are weaker than mages! That's the way it's supposed to be! If you hit me with a sword and I hit you with a bolt of lighting or a meteor, who do you think is going to deal more damage?" I've tried pointing out that this is a GAME, and being obsolete after 13th level, useless at 17th level, and fit only to wag your tail and bark at cats and squirls at epic levels is NOT fun. He didn't listen, and proceded to tell be how broken it was to be able to deal 100 damage per round (Strike of Perfect Clarity, 9th level Iron Heart strike). He turned a blind ear when I brought up Meteor Swarm, Disintigrate, Finger of Death, Wail of the Banshee, and Wish.
The White Sorcerer 11-05-06, 07:06 PM	He didn't listen, and proceded to tell be how broken it was to be able to deal 100 damage per round (Strike of Perfect Clarity, 9th level Iron Heart strike). That should be every other round, not per round. The warblade couldn't use strike of perfect clarity on the same round he recovers it.
Urban Sniper 11-05-06, 08:19 PM	"Of COURSE fighter-types are weaker than mages! That's the way it's supposed to be! If you hit me with a sword and I hit you with a bolt of lighting or a meteor, who do you think is going to deal more damage?" Reminds me of just the opposite of my DM, who basically hates mages or anything involving ranged combat. After the first game or two, no one has bows or any normal ranged weapons, and the only mages that can do anything are the NPCs, since it seems that all of the NPCs are basically immune to the players spells and special abilities, especially if said spells involve mind control. Only your basic destruction spells seem to have any hope of working, assuming the SR is actually able to be punctured or the NPCs actually fail to save. But there is hope! I've had a character that could out damage any mage, especially in epic levels. Rather simple build, too: fighter / weapon master / legendary dreadnaught, using a mercurial greatsword. With all of the items and nearly every point pumped into strength, (starting as a dhampir/ermordunung elf) she had at about level 30, she could critical for nearly 500 damage, and could easily do over 100 per swing at five attacks per round with a speed weapon. This was in 3.0, before the improved power attack rules, too. :D I thought about remaking her into a warblade, but found out that that would not only over-complicate things, but weaken her and lower her damage output. Go figure, lol.
PHGraves 11-05-06, 09:09 PM	The DM's thoughts on 'Partial Charge' was that you could gain 1/2 the normal Charge bonus/penalty if you moved less than 10' into combat. Once we brought it up, he did look up the rules and realized his error.
Griff 11-07-06, 11:50 AM	Our House Rules, 1: If the Dm has to ask you more then twice to roll a check, you just rolled badly. 2: dropping a baby from 9 feet can hurt it. (dont ask) 3. being inside a fire does d6d6, (yes that is a d6,d6) 4. Flirting with bf/gf on your initiave count rather then playing attention looses your go. 5. you've got 6 seconds to place your fireball, use it wisely.