Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mhutchins 12-09-04, 07:36 PM	I recently rolled stats for a game I am participating in, and I rolled pretty keen stats, but I do not know what to do with them. Typically, I play a good cleric (normally neutral good or lawful good), but I am thinking of trying my hands at something aside from cleric for a change? Any suggestions for a good change of pace? The stat roll is: 17 16 16 15 13 13. The campaign allows for any race, or classes/PrCs written by wizards of the coast. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thank you.
psionichamster 12-09-04, 07:52 PM	well, if you wanna try the other side of the religious faith, a paladin could very well benefit from those stats or a monk... personally, i always recommend a psionic character when looking for something new, although that all depends on 1. whether you or anyone has the XPH, and 2. whether the DM allows psi. char's... um, LN halfling sorcerer? TN Human monk? LE Druid/Horizon walker Elf? wizards are always fun...especially if you're TN and charge everyone by the spell. crafting is even more fun then... rogues are always fun to play...sneaky sneaky types are cool, and robbing everything rather than paying for it the hamster
Mhutchins 12-09-04, 07:58 PM	I have never really liked Arcane types simply because: Most of the times they have really bad AC. Almost always have AWFUL HP. And the ones I have seen played/have played, are useless after they use up their spells per day.
e-z0r 12-09-04, 08:05 PM	Fighter/rogue. I find they're the most fun to play. What level do you start at, in this campaign?
psionichamster 12-09-04, 08:06 PM	i've had tons of fun as a straight fighter... with those stats, and a decent build (i'm thinking Sword & Board tank...perhaps dwarf with waraxe?) you could pull a lot of weight in a brawl. monk----> drunken master? my next personal chioce is a monk specializing in subdual and knockouts, then a wicked high use rope. perhaps justiciar when it merits it...i think the idea of a bounty hunting LN monk fighting with masterwork manacles is awesome. stunning fist and flurry, carry a guisarme and trip em, then hop right on top and grapple/pin/tie em up. if you have access to "complete arcane" there's a fist of stone spell (1sor/wiz) that gives you a temp. +6 str and a natural slam attack... back in 2ed i had a gnomish monk (basically had death/stone or earth domains in today's terms) who used that spell + stoneskin in almost every altercation... this same monk once punched out a stone giant, then leapt to the next, who was offed by spell. and a single lvl of sorcerer makes that available like 4 times/day melee dominance + not a cleric +not arcane caster? Halfling outrider on a riding dog or some giant lizard... or a stag beetle rogue to assasain seems like a fun time perhaps some more specifications and we can narrow it down the hamster
Mhutchins 12-09-04, 08:19 PM	My last campaign I tried to change my cleric around. I always play 'good' characters, although she wasn't your goody two-shoes cleric. She was a cleric of St. Cuthbert who ended up as a judge. Starting Stats: Str 16, dex 14 con 15, wis 18, int 14, cha 15. If wizards were a bit stronger at low lvls I would play, but seeing as this is starting as a low lvl campaign, I am a bit reluctant. Also, I enjoy being in the fray, so to say. being up close in melee.
e-z0r 12-09-04, 08:53 PM	Make a fighter/rogue. Take maybe 4 lvls of fighter to start off, then continue on to rogue with a possible PrC somewhere around lvl 11 or some such. Like so, as a human fighter lvl 1: str 13 dex 17 con 16 int 16 wis 13 cha 15 Weapon Focus: Rapier or short sword Combat Expertise Weapon Finesse (Rapier or short sword) Then carry on concentrating on the rapierness/short swordedness. lvl 3 get improved feint lvl 4 take Weapon spec. Rapier or short sword, and take the attribute increase into cha for the +3 modifier. As a rogue, max out bluff and some other things, however you like it. You can now feint as a move action and then deliver a sneak attack every turn where your feint succeeds. Granted, your base damage isn't really that great, but with good enough dice rolls you'll be having as much hit points as the fighters, you'll have just as good an attack bonus, decent saves, good ac, other nifty rogue traits like a million skill points, and by rog11 you'll be doing +6d6 of sneak damage on a successful feint, not to mention hitting often due to your opponent being flatfooted. And it's so much more fun than being "Oog, the Half-Orc barbarion!!!1" btw. Don't forget, rogue is not the same as thief. You can still play an honest character.
e-z0r 12-09-04, 09:09 PM	Double posting.
Erix d'Pheer 12-09-04, 09:58 PM	Make a gnome illusionist/rogue/Shadowcraft Mage/Arcane Trickster, using the illusionist variant presented in Unearthed Arcana (the one that replaces bonus feats). You'll be the sneakiest gnome wizard ever.
Mhutchins 12-09-04, 11:44 PM	Any ideas for something not rogue based?
heinzk23111 12-09-04, 11:51 PM	How about a tiefling Fighter/rogue (borrowing from the fighter/rogue mentioned earlier). Shoot for the Swashbuckler prestige class. Use Rapier and Main gauche (Two weapon style), Grab expertise, disarm opponents and make them beg for mercy. Then just let them go with a waive of your feathered hat, a bow and a thank you for the "excellent duel". fight dirty and kick, throw sand in eyes, Tumble, swing from chandeliers.... Ok you get the idea ;) Darn just noticed your post about no Rogues...and you don't like Arcane users..hmmmm... Dwarf Fighter who uses the Warhammer 1/2-orc Ranger uses axes for ranged weapon (ex forester) Cavalier (Fighter of noble birth who likes to joust)
Mhutchins 12-09-04, 11:55 PM	How about a tiefling Fighter/rogue (borrowing from the fighter/rogue mentioned earlier). Shoot for the Swashbuckler prestige class. Use Rapier and Main gauche (Two weapon style), Grab expertise, disarm opponents and make them beg for mercy. Then just let them go with a waive of your feathered hat, a bow and a thank you for the "excellent duel". fight dirty and kick, throw sand in eyes, Tumble, swing from chandeliers.... Ok you get the idea ;) Does the PrC swashbuckler have any advantages over the base class one listed in complete warrior?
heinzk23111 12-10-04, 12:15 AM	Does the PrC swashbuckler have any advantages over the base class one listed in complete warrior? I havent seen the complete warrior yet but I was thinking of one that was in Dragon magazine with 2nd edition. If the complete warrior increases AC as you level up, And gives Parry, disarm, and a negative for Chr checks with NPC's it is the one I was thinking of... :D
Mhutchins 12-10-04, 01:03 AM	Not at all. This Swashbuckler gets things like weapon finese at lvl 1, and insightful strike (int mod added to damage rolls), and other things like that.
Tibs 12-10-04, 01:08 AM	Well, personally, I've always been fond of rangers...Maybe you could give that class a go? A bard (particularly a gnomish one) could prove to be a lot of fun as well. Just my two cents.
D_Martin 12-10-04, 01:16 AM	Those scores would make a heck of a good Ranger. A Rgr/Rog would be a great combo! Maybe a Deepwoods Sniper ...but Ftr/Rog would be the better way to get there because of the bonus Ftr feats(Ftr3/Rog3). A Human Rgr could get there by 6th level(Weapon Focus, PBS, Far Shot and Precise Shot). Having that many odd #'s kind of sucks, but shows great potential. Str: 16 Dex: 17 Con:16 Wis: 15( Int and Wis could be switched around, you only need a 14 for all spells, but a 15 would give a better spell DC if uped to 16) Int: 13 Cha: 13 Those Stats would also make a great Ftr/Sor or Wiz/ElK. :twocents:
Ryu Hitome 12-10-04, 02:02 AM	I would say monk, if you like being in the middle of the fray. Str 15 Dex 16 Con 16 Int 13 Wis 17 Cha 13 You're wise and you're quick. Your AC will be pretty good and your hps will be pretty nice as well. There's a feat in the Eberron sourcebook called "Monastic Training" that lets you choose a class when you take it and you can freely multiclass between monk and that class, if you want a little variety. I'd go straight monk, though. Creating a concept is even more fun for monks though, they have such a different kind of flavor and usually don't adventure for the same reasons as others.
Mhutchins 12-10-04, 02:58 AM	I love monks, but they really need a high stat build to work (like I just got ;) ) Do you think 16 str could be switched with the 15 in strength?
Cold Napalm 12-10-04, 04:01 AM	Those stats just screams play monk...although a gish would be very lovely with those stats. Str 15 dex 16 con 16 wis 13 int 17 cha 13 That would make one hell of a gish. Sun elf will get your con to 14 but int to 19 for a castery gish.
D_Martin 12-10-04, 05:18 AM	Sure, switch 15 Str for 15 Con. If you play an Elf, I wouldn't quite suggest it, but still very doable. Playing an Aasimar Monk would be very interesting IMO. But ...play what you want to play!
Mhutchins 12-10-04, 10:39 AM	Could someone define gish for me please?
psionichamster 12-10-04, 10:44 AM	multiclass its what the githyankis called multiclass characters the hamster
Mhutchins 12-10-04, 10:48 AM	I also learned a few houserules will be in place that might help decide what I want to be. 1) My DM opted to not count ammo unless it is magical. 2) My DM also decided to allow free multiclass out of not wanting to calculate. 3) No magical ingredients in spells.
psionichamster 12-10-04, 10:57 AM	multiclass sorc. monk... sorc 1 or 2 to get the cheap 1st lvl spells (shield/mage armor/Magic Missile/true strike) and monk for the rest...the skills wont be that great at the start, but with cha 13, you're set for the baby spells... then, you can be your own buffer, as well as leaping around like a monkey and knocking everyone down... use a longspear or glaive to close in, then kick em and kick em and kick em till they fall down.. pretty much the build i'm shooting for, except im going for sudbual and tying up everyone the hamster
Mhutchins 12-10-04, 11:13 AM	With these stats, couldn't they also make a half-way decent Paladin? These are a few builds I see. Str 17 dex 13 con 16 wis 15 int 13 cha 16 Or as well: Str 16 dex 13 con 16 wis 15 int 13 cha 17 With this I could put the 4th level bonus in charisma, giving me a very nifty +4 to all saving throws. Can't say that is bad. Also, if I do chose to be Asimar, that would make it a +5 to all saving throws. str 15 dex 13 con 16 wis 16 int 13 ch 17 I got this suggestion if I was going to be most spell based as a Paly. But, they went as far as putting the 17 there. If I wasnted to go that far shouldn't I just go ahead and be a cleric? As for fighter/caster combos that people said would work good in PrCs. I thought up this combo. Tell me what you think Str 16 dex 15 con 16 17 in whatever is my casting attribute is, and 13 in the two that aren't used.
eudas 12-10-04, 11:41 AM	LE Druid/Horizon walker Elf? LE druid wouldn't work; druids must be some form of neutral. eudas
psionichamster 12-10-04, 11:44 AM	str 16 dex 15 con 16 int 13 wis 13 chr 17... fighter sorc. with focus on attaining eldritch knight or spellsword (although i prefer the E. Knight...its nice to cast in armor...) mithral chain shirt and a mithral buckler, you're looking at ac +5, max dex+6 and a 10% chance of asf, with no armor check penalties...for a cost of chain shirt, buckler, plus 2000gp... throw in an amulet of nat. armor +2 and a ring o prot +2, you've got an effective 10 +2 (dex) +4 (chain) +1 (buckler) +2 (amulet) +2 (ring)=AC 21...not half bad for a sorc... if you are gonna be deep in the stuff, use blur or blink, or shield to negate them MM spells...or swap con for dex (or be a small char) and add 1 more to that AC... casting stat=17, +1 at 4th gives you +4... you'd be a great mid-line fighter or "mage guard" as you'd pretty much be the equivilant of a cleric, but with arcane spells. once you get to eldritch knight, it gets even more fun. 9/10's caster progression, a bonus fighter feat at 1st, and full BAB... now, you can be as deadly with them rays as with your sword. or straight pally could be devastating with these stats and the proper setup. the hamster
eudas 12-10-04, 11:55 AM	I recently rolled stats for a game I am participating in, and I rolled pretty keen stats, but I do not know what to do with them. Typically, I play a good cleric (normally neutral good or lawful good), but I am thinking of trying my hands at something aside from cleric for a change? Any suggestions for a good change of pace? The stat roll is: 17 16 16 15 13 13. The campaign allows for any race, or classes/PrCs written by wizards of the coast. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thank you. I recommend you go with a Gish (fighter/caster) character. Here are a couple of resources: The Comprehensive 3.5 Arcane Gish Thread (rebuilt from the binary up) http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=150451&highlight=gish+thread Character Build Spotlight: Gish http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=307309&highlight=gish+thread Fighter/Wizard is probably a more crunchy combo, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around it for a melee caster. I generally picture martial gishes as more of the Fighter/Sorcerer type. But that's just me. Check out the Knight of the Eldritch Order and the Spontaneous Knight from JosephKell's thread. Some of the Dread Army builds look pretty cool too. eudas
Mhutchins 12-10-04, 11:58 AM	What sort of setup would you suggest for a good solid Paly, hamster? As for Eldrich Knight, I am a bit leary of arcane just because I simply don't know the spells well enough to choose effective spells. What spells would you suggest for a beginner? I was thinking possibly color spray, for sure... The same goes for feats. I know Metamagic sucks at low levels and this campaign is starting at lvl 1. Would I start level 1 is a fighter, or a sorcerer? After I master Eldrich Knight, where do I go from there? Put more points into sorcerer or into fighter?
psionichamster 12-10-04, 12:13 PM	str 16 dex 15 con 13 int 13 wis 16 chr 17... play as a dwarf and you get con15 and dex 13, as a gnome con15 str 14...and both races give you all kinds of fun stuff... this way, you can either up con or chr at 4, pick up a cloak chr. +2 and gauntlets of ogre str. +2 (when you can afford/find them of course)... you would be a shining example of all goodness to other dwarves (or gnomes) everywhere... good plate, heavy shield and dwarven waraxe with EWP waraxe to use your shield. oh, and get a tower shield, too...i know paladins are unproficient, but you don't need that to put a chunk of wood btw you and the other guy...or btw you, the mage and the other guys... go up the expertise tree, perhaps even go into justiciar (CW class that gives you subdual sneak attack among other things) then, you have obvious adventuring motives: ie: SMITE EVIL (or protect good, etc...) and a fairly good resource going from the church... i'd recommend Moradin and/or bahamut. plus, if you go against undead, fear not, you may smite to your little heart's content. of course, if you wanna be human, that works too with the stats as is...just go for another 1 or 2 handed weapon (bastard sword, anyone?) and get the best shield and armor you can a holy weapon +1 also works well the hamster
Mhutchins 12-10-04, 12:44 PM	That still doesn't really give a good setup for a Paladin, Ham :/
eudas 12-10-04, 03:55 PM	I would recommend avoiding Paladin. 1) Too similar to Cleric 2) the LG align + CoC issues really are too much of a PITA for most people, they are even more restrictive than what a cleric normally faces. You don't seem keen on rogue, and you don't like arcane spellcasters. So, let's cut this list down: Barbarian Bard (arcane caster) Cleric (let's not play the same thing over) Druid (too similar to cleric) Fighter Monk Paladin (too similar to cleric) Ranger Rogue (didn't seem interested) Sorcerer (arcane caster) Wizard (arcane caster) Swashbuckler Hexblade Leaving us with: Barbarian Fighter Monk Ranger Swashbuckler Hexblade I haven't discluded Hexblade yet, because while it is a secondary arcane caster class, it 1) only gets this ability after level 4, 2) does not suffer ASF in light armor, 3) is usually only used as a 3-level dip to get Arcane Resistance and Mettle. Hmm, you didn't really like the rogue type, and you can't use Monk without going no-armor, so let's discount a few more: Barbarian Fighter Monk (no armor) Ranger Swashbuckler (no/light armor) Hexblade Leaving us: Barbarian Fighter Ranger Hexblade You said you like melee, so that counts out an archery-ranger. So... I'd say, hrm... 1) Some kind of TWF-style Ranger, maybe with 3 Hexblade levels (Arcane Resistance/Mettle), heading towards Horizon Walker; or 2) some kind of Smasher, like Barb/Fighter with Power Attack; or 3) some kind of intelligent fighter, maybe with 3 Hexblade levels (Arcane Resistance/Mettle) I'd probably avoid Heavy armors, and keep a fair dex score, high con, fair int score, fair wis score. The stats you gave us were: 17 16 16 15 13 13. Let's say for (3), we go with something like... 17 str 15 dex 16 con 16 int 13 wis 13 cha And, if you go something like Fighter2/Hexblade 3, you could put your clvl4 stat point into Str, Dex, Wis, or Cha. You'd have a strong fort save, decent ref/will saves, and Arcane Resistance/Mettle to help you out a bit as well. Wear chain mail, maybe pick up Improved Expertise, and some of the other feats from that tree. I'd probably use a Human, for the extra feat and skill points, but you'll have a few to spare. :) Where you go from there is up to you... with the extra feats/skill points you should be able to qualify for any PRC you want. *shrug* Just some idle thoughts while i'm bored at work... eudas
Mhutchins 12-10-04, 06:46 PM	I looked over swashbuckler, and the ideas came swimming into my mind. I don't mean to ask a dumb question, but how do Swashbucklers tend to handle in the lines of light fighters?
e-z0r 12-10-04, 07:04 PM	Where could I read about these swashbucklers and hexblades? They aren't available in any SRD, are they? What book are they in, then?
psionichamster 12-10-04, 07:26 PM	both in complete warrior, iirc... swashbuckler= fun time melee bashing...imp crit or a keen rapier...(although i'd prefer imp crit. and a rapier of puncturing myself) same thing with the mithral gear...or get a main gauche (parrying dagger) for the defense, and get an adamantine one to bash the other guy's knives... the hamster
heinzk23111 12-10-04, 09:38 PM	I looked over swashbuckler, and the ideas came swimming into my mind. I don't mean to ask a dumb question, but how do Swashbucklers tend to handle in the lines of light fighters? Excellent choice (IMHO), Very good in light fighting styles one-on-one. Can handle a couple of foes with the Right parries, disarms, tumbling, etc... Oh yea and for fun and flavor insult your adversay at every chance. Some thing along the lines of "you call that a thrust? I could beat you with my eyes closed!" or "Swordplay is not your best attribute, no?" and "Perhaps you grandmother taught you how to fight? Hmmm?"
Mhutchins 12-10-04, 10:13 PM	I am down to two ideas. I am considering a stoic styled paladin and a swashbuckler. A small sample background for my paladin idea. She is from a small fringe village on the border between what would be consider the 'habitable' part of the continent, and the harsh wintery wilderness. The wilderness region has very sparce life, save for a few tribes of roving barbarians, and other savage species. Recent hardships had driven off what small hunting the barbarians could get so they looked for other means to get get what they need, namely attacking the village the character is from. The village was little more than a hamlet, and had almost no defense against well trained savages. The village was sacked, and all were killed, save for my character. She was lucky enough to sneak away, on the guidance of her parents. For about a week, she wandered the wilderness in search for some bit of safety, some civilization. She found her way to the largest city in the region by chance, starving, alone, and on her last legs. She was taken into a comfortable home, but her experiences had some degree of impact on her. As she grew, so did her desire to make up for what had happened, by preventing it again. She joined the local church of a god of protection, and might (homebrew) and in time joined the city guard as well, declaring it her duty to keep what happened to her old home from happening to her new home. As for the swashy, I am thinking about making a general wandering swordswoman with a wit as quick as her rapier. Would be a less serious character. I am still perculating a background. What do you think?
UltimateReality 12-10-04, 10:21 PM	Edit: I feel like a dumbass who hasn't had enough sleep. Think of this as my magic delete-stupid-post cuz we can't delete our own posts on this forum. (Why is that?)
Mad Daerek 12-11-04, 12:26 AM	With those kind of stats a fighter rogue would mop up. What's more in the gaming environment, f/r make great characters to fill in gaps. Personally, I like to play n-e. It allows one to fit into almost any party that's somewhat tolerable to evil. Also, it gives a party a good dynamic. The world isn't full of do-gooders.
eudas 12-13-04, 09:36 AM	Excellent choice (IMHO), Very good in light fighting styles one-on-one. Can handle a couple of foes with the Right parries, disarms, tumbling, etc... Oh yea and for fun and flavor insult your adversay at every chance. Some thing along the lines of "you call that a thrust? I could beat you with my eyes closed!" or "Swordplay is not your best attribute, no?" and "Perhaps you grandmother taught you how to fight? Hmmm?" And, of course, the ever-popular "You fight like a farmer!", and other Monkey-Island insult references. =) eudas