A Cleric With A Wisdom Of 8? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Cleric With A Wisdom Of 8? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Copper_Coins
03-03-06, 04:27 PM OK, So heres the deal.

I am in a party of 5, in which I am the fighter, and lately I've been getting bored with the whole hack, slash, etc... Of the role I play.

After seeing an NpC Cleric of my deity, I thought that it might be cool to Multiclass to Cleric, as what I'm looking for is more magicy type abilities.

The problem is, I have a wisdom of 8 (-1 Modifier for the few people who don't know). And the party has an agreement about division of loot, so any wisdom boosting items will go to the existing Cleric.

I have asked my DM about this and he says that there MIGHT be some spell that switches 2 ability scores, but he hasn't found one yet.

Are there any solutions? A way to get a higher wisdom? A cleric variant?

Thanks In Advance. :D
JulesCARV
03-03-06, 04:45 PM Got any intelligence or charisma? If your intelligence is decent, consider the Archivist (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3). If you have good charisma, look into the Favored Soul, which, as far as I know, has no legal public references, but it's in the Complete Divine, I think.

If your charisma, wisdom, and intelligence are ALL bad, then you're out of luck. Sorry.
Dragen White
03-03-06, 04:51 PM not that i know of, not to discredit you from playing what you want to be, because your character should do what he wants, but sometimes you got to think like your character and not like your self, in perspective a low wisdom means your character is interested in this whole diety/ cleric thing, but since hes a little dense, at least more than an average human, he might just not "get it" the idea of it that is. Thus he may not be the best person to be a cleric, for as performing it would b a struggle, but as a DM i say theres no sacrifice without reward (if you serve the right diety) and they may bestow upon the simple minded an item to allow you first level spells, such as a amulet of wisdom +4, but it has charges and to get it refilled you must visit the temple and pay dues to your diety, or pray everyday or sacrifice a -4 in any other ability you choose at the time of its wearing. These are just options for the DM, and if you decide you dont need it anymore, they ask that you return it, and not sell it, if it is sold, you lose favor with your diety, as would a paladin if he did somthing evil, these are the ramifications a DM must implememnt to not give you a high powered item just to sell leater for extra cash.
Copper_Coins
03-03-06, 04:53 PM Both of my Intelligence and Charisma are 12.

The Archivist seems pretty cool, but does anyone have any information on the Favoured Soul? I've read the Favoured Souls with class article, but thats about all.
Cerulean_wings
03-03-06, 04:58 PM Favored soul is a cleric with spontaneous casting, like a sorcerer, and some different abilities from the cleric, but overall the same thing. You can find it in Complete Divine.
Copper_Coins
03-03-06, 05:12 PM Hmm... I don't have Complete Divine...

A little background info, if it helps:

Level 5 Dwarven Fighter
Alignment: LN
Deity/Patron: Moradin
STR: 18
DEX: 13
CON: 18
INT: 12
WIS: 8
CHA: 12

Anything else, just ask.
legowarrior
03-03-06, 05:33 PM Favored soul is alright, but if going into a Prestige classes that balance fighting and magic, try the Shugjena.
ressurrector
03-03-06, 05:40 PM I'd suggest that you look into the favored soul.
It works very well with a melee fighter-type.
Just make sure your spells known will help.

As far as mechanics: if clerics are like wizards, favored souls are like sorcs.
They do not get turn undead, they do get limited spells known, spontaneous casting, extra spells/highest lvl based on cha (saves based on wis, so no saving spells for you), energy resistances, wings (at very high level, don't expect to get there), and better proficiencies than cleric (not that this matters to you).

More than that I can't post here, try borrowing the Complete Divine from somewhere.
Copper_Coins
03-03-06, 05:43 PM I don't know if I'm just stupid, or what.

But I can't seem to find anything about Shugenja, nor anything else you guys suggest.

I don't own any of the books, as they are rare in my parts. But my DM has quite a few, mostly which we can't read, so I wouldn't know names.

But, if you can supply information on something, it'd be a great help. :D
battlebruvaz
03-03-06, 06:00 PM well, read in the character guide. if your stats are that low your allowed to re-roll as many of them as you want. i didnt reroll but my character is:

strenghth: 18
dexterity:17
innteligence:18
wisdom:15
charisma: 17

im making him a dwarf companion.

so reroll the ones your not happy with until you ARE happy with it.

but your not stupid. ;)
Kresalak
03-03-06, 06:15 PM He is not allowed to reroll his stats- the total of his modifiers is +10, which is really quite high. In point buy terms he is a 41 point buy character.
Talon Stormwarden
03-03-06, 07:22 PM He is not allowed to reroll his stats- the total of his modifiers is +10, which is really quite high. In point buy terms he is a 41 point buy character.

Didn't you know? Anything lower than +15 total gets a reroll!

I bet that DM didn't let you start with an artifact either. Bastard!
Kresalak
03-03-06, 08:03 PM My DM even twisted my wish when I wished to be all powerful! All he gave me was this crappy "Manipulate Form" ability! AND he limited me to 300 point buy!

Ok, ok, I'll stop.

Anyway, with your mental stats, you really aren't very well qualified to be any kind of primary spellcaster. However, the Pious Templar class from Complete Divine seems like it would fit your character, and would give you access to either the Paladin or Blackguard list (probably Paladin), and up to 4th level spells. It also is full BAB and has some ok special abilities.
danielinthewolvesden
03-04-06, 12:00 PM However, the Pious Templar class from Complete Divine seems like it would fit your character, and would give you access to either the Paladin or Blackguard list (probably Paladin), and up to 4th level spells. It also is full BAB and has some ok special abilities.

No, as he still doesn't have enough Wisdom to even cast 0 level spells.

Do a Favored Soul.
Feor
03-04-06, 12:56 PM I don't know if I'm just stupid, or what.

But I can't seem to find anything about Shugenja, nor anything else you guys suggest.

I don't own any of the books, as they are rare in my parts. But my DM has quite a few, mostly which we can't read, so I wouldn't know names.

But, if you can supply information on something, it'd be a great help. :D

We can't give you any more information than we already have, unfortunatly, as it's copywrited material.

If you could scrape together 4000gp you can get a Periapt of Wisdom +2(an amulet), 16000gp for +4. That'd give you access to 0th or 2nd level spells and get you your start at least. Later on you could spend stat point increases to bump your Wisdom and maybe look into buying a better Periapt or a Tome of Understanding.

And barring all that, you can just take a level in Cleric regardless, spend most of your time as a slightly sub par fighter with some extra abilities (turn undead +2 domain abilities I'd recommend the Desctruction(PHB) and Force(Complete Divine) domains myself), and talk to your DM about getting some potions or scrolls of Persistant Owl's Wisdom. (Owl's Wisdom with the Persistant Metamagic Feat(Complete Arcane) on it would last for 24 hours, but would be the equivalent of an 8th level spell, not sure how metamagic affects the ability to potion something) So when you feel you'll need to cast spells, down one of the potions before morning prayers, you get +4wisdom for the day, and can cast as needed. When you don't have the potions you can be a simple priest, spreading the word of your diety without any divine assistance.
pres_man
03-04-06, 01:49 PM If you go cleric with a wisdom of 8, you might invest in some wands. You don't have to actually be able to use a spell, it just has to be on your list to use a wand with the spell. You can invest in wisdom enhancing items to get your wisdom up to a point where you can prepare and cast spells. Also remember you still get your higher spell slots, even if you can't cast spells of that level. You can always use a higher level slot to prepare a lower level spell.
Lincoln Hills
03-04-06, 01:51 PM I agree with Feor. Even though your character doesn't have the Wisdom to cast even the 0-level divine spells, he'd still get the other perks of a 1st-level cleric:

1) Two domain powers (just avoid any domains that give '+1 caster level' for certain spells, as those'll be useless to you)
2) A substantial bonus to saving throws
3) Turning abilities (your Charisma is decent enough)
4) Access to 'divine' feats (you can put your new Turning ability to other uses, for instance)
5) The ability to use clerical items such as wands, scrolls (with a chance of failure!), and so forth.
6) A few skill points for the Cleric skill list, which includes some valuable stuff (Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge (arcana)) which aren't on the fighter list.

If your character's really interested enough not only to convert, but to take holy orders, then by all means I'd follow through with a level of cleric. It ain't feeble, even without spells.
JulesCARV
03-04-06, 02:22 PM Okay: I have an idea. It requires an alignment shift from Lawful Neutral to Lawful Good, and it loses you two BAB, and it only has half-advancement in spellcasting, but it uses all OGL or Wizards website materials.

First, you'll need to get Mounted Combat, but being a fighter, that oughtn't be hard, if you don't have it already. Also, you'll need four ranks in Ride.

Now, take a level of archivist. With your five skill points, you can buy two ranks of knowledge (nobility and royalty), and have three skill points to spare. All knowledge skills are in-class, and knowledge skills are very nice for archivists. Be sure to take Protection from Evil.

Now... I'd like to say there's a way around this, but I don't see it: Take a level of cleric. It's a wasted level, with this build, but you need it to be able to turn undead. At least you'll boost your fortitude and will saves. Spend two of your skill points boosting knowledge (religion).

Now, go into Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestige Paladin). When you advance your divine spellcasting level, advance your Archivist levels.

This is kinda a crappy way of doing things, since you basically lose a level when you take the cleric level. You lose two points of BAB, from your first cleric and archivist levels, but once you're a prestige paladin, you get some neat abilities, lose your fighter bonus feats, and advance your archivist spellcasting every other level.

That is, unless you can convince your DM to let you take prestige paladin without the turn undead ability, or you can find some way of emulating it.
Asciiman
03-04-06, 02:51 PM I've gotta say JulesCARV that's some impressive rules fan-dan-goling you've got going there. In what otherwise seemed impossilbe you've created a crappy subsitute.

I'm impressed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Copper_Coins 03-03-06, 04:27 PM	OK, So heres the deal. I am in a party of 5, in which I am the fighter, and lately I've been getting bored with the whole hack, slash, etc... Of the role I play. After seeing an NpC Cleric of my deity, I thought that it might be cool to Multiclass to Cleric, as what I'm looking for is more magicy type abilities. The problem is, I have a wisdom of 8 (-1 Modifier for the few people who don't know). And the party has an agreement about division of loot, so any wisdom boosting items will go to the existing Cleric. I have asked my DM about this and he says that there MIGHT be some spell that switches 2 ability scores, but he hasn't found one yet. Are there any solutions? A way to get a higher wisdom? A cleric variant? Thanks In Advance. :D
JulesCARV 03-03-06, 04:45 PM	Got any intelligence or charisma? If your intelligence is decent, consider the Archivist (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3). If you have good charisma, look into the Favored Soul, which, as far as I know, has no legal public references, but it's in the Complete Divine, I think. If your charisma, wisdom, and intelligence are ALL bad, then you're out of luck. Sorry.
Dragen White 03-03-06, 04:51 PM	not that i know of, not to discredit you from playing what you want to be, because your character should do what he wants, but sometimes you got to think like your character and not like your self, in perspective a low wisdom means your character is interested in this whole diety/ cleric thing, but since hes a little dense, at least more than an average human, he might just not "get it" the idea of it that is. Thus he may not be the best person to be a cleric, for as performing it would b a struggle, but as a DM i say theres no sacrifice without reward (if you serve the right diety) and they may bestow upon the simple minded an item to allow you first level spells, such as a amulet of wisdom +4, but it has charges and to get it refilled you must visit the temple and pay dues to your diety, or pray everyday or sacrifice a -4 in any other ability you choose at the time of its wearing. These are just options for the DM, and if you decide you dont need it anymore, they ask that you return it, and not sell it, if it is sold, you lose favor with your diety, as would a paladin if he did somthing evil, these are the ramifications a DM must implememnt to not give you a high powered item just to sell leater for extra cash.
Copper_Coins 03-03-06, 04:53 PM	Both of my Intelligence and Charisma are 12. The Archivist seems pretty cool, but does anyone have any information on the Favoured Soul? I've read the Favoured Souls with class article, but thats about all.
Cerulean_wings 03-03-06, 04:58 PM	Favored soul is a cleric with spontaneous casting, like a sorcerer, and some different abilities from the cleric, but overall the same thing. You can find it in Complete Divine.
Copper_Coins 03-03-06, 05:12 PM	Hmm... I don't have Complete Divine... A little background info, if it helps: Level 5 Dwarven Fighter Alignment: LN Deity/Patron: Moradin STR: 18 DEX: 13 CON: 18 INT: 12 WIS: 8 CHA: 12 Anything else, just ask.
legowarrior 03-03-06, 05:33 PM	Favored soul is alright, but if going into a Prestige classes that balance fighting and magic, try the Shugjena.
ressurrector 03-03-06, 05:40 PM	I'd suggest that you look into the favored soul. It works very well with a melee fighter-type. Just make sure your spells known will help. As far as mechanics: if clerics are like wizards, favored souls are like sorcs. They do not get turn undead, they do get limited spells known, spontaneous casting, extra spells/highest lvl based on cha (saves based on wis, so no saving spells for you), energy resistances, wings (at very high level, don't expect to get there), and better proficiencies than cleric (not that this matters to you). More than that I can't post here, try borrowing the Complete Divine from somewhere.
Copper_Coins 03-03-06, 05:43 PM	I don't know if I'm just stupid, or what. But I can't seem to find anything about Shugenja, nor anything else you guys suggest. I don't own any of the books, as they are rare in my parts. But my DM has quite a few, mostly which we can't read, so I wouldn't know names. But, if you can supply information on something, it'd be a great help. :D
battlebruvaz 03-03-06, 06:00 PM	well, read in the character guide. if your stats are that low your allowed to re-roll as many of them as you want. i didnt reroll but my character is: strenghth: 18 dexterity:17 innteligence:18 wisdom:15 charisma: 17 im making him a dwarf companion. so reroll the ones your not happy with until you ARE happy with it. but your not stupid. ;)
Kresalak 03-03-06, 06:15 PM	He is not allowed to reroll his stats- the total of his modifiers is +10, which is really quite high. In point buy terms he is a 41 point buy character.
Talon Stormwarden 03-03-06, 07:22 PM	He is not allowed to reroll his stats- the total of his modifiers is +10, which is really quite high. In point buy terms he is a 41 point buy character. Didn't you know? Anything lower than +15 total gets a reroll! I bet that DM didn't let you start with an artifact either. Bastard!
Kresalak 03-03-06, 08:03 PM	My DM even twisted my wish when I wished to be all powerful! All he gave me was this crappy "Manipulate Form" ability! AND he limited me to 300 point buy! Ok, ok, I'll stop. Anyway, with your mental stats, you really aren't very well qualified to be any kind of primary spellcaster. However, the Pious Templar class from Complete Divine seems like it would fit your character, and would give you access to either the Paladin or Blackguard list (probably Paladin), and up to 4th level spells. It also is full BAB and has some ok special abilities.
danielinthewolvesden 03-04-06, 12:00 PM	However, the Pious Templar class from Complete Divine seems like it would fit your character, and would give you access to either the Paladin or Blackguard list (probably Paladin), and up to 4th level spells. It also is full BAB and has some ok special abilities. No, as he still doesn't have enough Wisdom to even cast 0 level spells. Do a Favored Soul.
Feor 03-04-06, 12:56 PM	I don't know if I'm just stupid, or what. But I can't seem to find anything about Shugenja, nor anything else you guys suggest. I don't own any of the books, as they are rare in my parts. But my DM has quite a few, mostly which we can't read, so I wouldn't know names. But, if you can supply information on something, it'd be a great help. :D We can't give you any more information than we already have, unfortunatly, as it's copywrited material. If you could scrape together 4000gp you can get a Periapt of Wisdom +2(an amulet), 16000gp for +4. That'd give you access to 0th or 2nd level spells and get you your start at least. Later on you could spend stat point increases to bump your Wisdom and maybe look into buying a better Periapt or a Tome of Understanding. And barring all that, you can just take a level in Cleric regardless, spend most of your time as a slightly sub par fighter with some extra abilities (turn undead +2 domain abilities I'd recommend the Desctruction(PHB) and Force(Complete Divine) domains myself), and talk to your DM about getting some potions or scrolls of Persistant Owl's Wisdom. (Owl's Wisdom with the Persistant Metamagic Feat(Complete Arcane) on it would last for 24 hours, but would be the equivalent of an 8th level spell, not sure how metamagic affects the ability to potion something) So when you feel you'll need to cast spells, down one of the potions before morning prayers, you get +4wisdom for the day, and can cast as needed. When you don't have the potions you can be a simple priest, spreading the word of your diety without any divine assistance.
pres_man 03-04-06, 01:49 PM	If you go cleric with a wisdom of 8, you might invest in some wands. You don't have to actually be able to use a spell, it just has to be on your list to use a wand with the spell. You can invest in wisdom enhancing items to get your wisdom up to a point where you can prepare and cast spells. Also remember you still get your higher spell slots, even if you can't cast spells of that level. You can always use a higher level slot to prepare a lower level spell.
Lincoln Hills 03-04-06, 01:51 PM	I agree with Feor. Even though your character doesn't have the Wisdom to cast even the 0-level divine spells, he'd still get the other perks of a 1st-level cleric: 1) Two domain powers (just avoid any domains that give '+1 caster level' for certain spells, as those'll be useless to you) 2) A substantial bonus to saving throws 3) Turning abilities (your Charisma is decent enough) 4) Access to 'divine' feats (you can put your new Turning ability to other uses, for instance) 5) The ability to use clerical items such as wands, scrolls (with a chance of failure!), and so forth. 6) A few skill points for the Cleric skill list, which includes some valuable stuff (Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge (arcana)) which aren't on the fighter list. If your character's really interested enough not only to convert, but to take holy orders, then by all means I'd follow through with a level of cleric. It ain't feeble, even without spells.
JulesCARV 03-04-06, 02:22 PM	Okay: I have an idea. It requires an alignment shift from Lawful Neutral to Lawful Good, and it loses you two BAB, and it only has half-advancement in spellcasting, but it uses all OGL or Wizards website materials. First, you'll need to get Mounted Combat, but being a fighter, that oughtn't be hard, if you don't have it already. Also, you'll need four ranks in Ride. Now, take a level of archivist. With your five skill points, you can buy two ranks of knowledge (nobility and royalty), and have three skill points to spare. All knowledge skills are in-class, and knowledge skills are very nice for archivists. Be sure to take Protection from Evil. Now... I'd like to say there's a way around this, but I don't see it: Take a level of cleric. It's a wasted level, with this build, but you need it to be able to turn undead. At least you'll boost your fortitude and will saves. Spend two of your skill points boosting knowledge (religion). Now, go into Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestige Paladin). When you advance your divine spellcasting level, advance your Archivist levels. This is kinda a crappy way of doing things, since you basically lose a level when you take the cleric level. You lose two points of BAB, from your first cleric and archivist levels, but once you're a prestige paladin, you get some neat abilities, lose your fighter bonus feats, and advance your archivist spellcasting every other level. That is, unless you can convince your DM to let you take prestige paladin without the turn undead ability, or you can find some way of emulating it.
Asciiman 03-04-06, 02:51 PM	I've gotta say JulesCARV that's some impressive rules fan-dan-goling you've got going there. In what otherwise seemed impossilbe you've created a crappy subsitute. I'm impressed.