Post/Author/DateTime	Post
APannos36 06-15-07, 01:32 AM	I currently am playing a Goliath Druid with 5 levels in druid and 2 levels in master of many forms and i'm having a hell of a time figuring out what kind of a weapon i want to use. here's the deal: i am currently using a +1 Maul that deals 3 d10 damage because it is gargantuan size with an enchatment that makes it wield like a large weapon so my character can use it. (my DM has allowed me to use the maul w/o penelty). but my party has come across a good amount of money (not too much). and i was hoping that somone out here could make some suggestions. i would like to have something that deals around the same amount of damage. if anyone needs some more info, please let me know. thanks in advance.
BroadStreetBully 06-15-07, 02:03 AM	if you don't mind taking a feat for exotic weapon proficiency, i'd go with a great falchion from Sandstorm. it's a 1d12 two-handed weapon, with a 18-20/x2 crit range. if you resize it from medium to huge/gargantuan/whatever, i don't know what the new damage would be but i'm sure it'd be healthy (i believe damage resizing is on page 24 of the DMG, or somewhere in the mid 20s). you stack keen or imp. crit on top of there, and you'd be talking about a hurtin for certain.
bobothechimp 06-15-07, 03:48 AM	You're a druid, and you're using a weapon? Are you mad?
IceFractal 06-15-07, 02:27 PM	Well, he does have MoMF, so he can wildshape into forms with hands. Even so, I'd spend the money on a pair of Gloves of Man, so you can use the maul in a wider variety of forms. As far as dealing that much damage - not easily. You'd need a weapon that did 2d10 at Medium size. Heck, the magic enhancement on the Maul (Balanced, perhaps?) is quite a valuable one for you, I'd stick with that. However, for short term destruction, Greatclub + Shillelagh = 4d8, so there's your backup weapon at least.
Toran_A_Sunder 06-15-07, 02:32 PM	I'd stick wth the weapon you have and just pay to add enchantments. its a +1 maul? well pay to make it a +1 flaming maul. or a +1 acidic burst maul. or a +1 brilliant energy maul of speed. you get the idea. Thats what my friends and I normally do with our characters. Unless we find a really kick ass magic weapon while adventuring, we normally sell the weapons we get to upgrade the weapons we have had since the begining.
Class_A_Infidel 06-15-07, 06:10 PM	I'd go with a weapon called the Turning-yourself-into-whatever-badass-monster-you-come-up-with-and-kick-kobold-ass.
APannos36 06-17-07, 07:24 PM	thanks for all of the posts. i think the great falchion may be what i end up going with. i'll definitly have it be +1 and enhance it with some cool things. or maybe i'll just enhance the hell out of my maul b/c my DM upon realizing that i had been using the maul without penelty on the spot added that it has an enchantment that lets me use it without penelty (how convienient!). my DM is a great guy and now that he said that, i think i'll just upgrade the hell out of the maul. oh and about the whole "Turning-yourself-into-whatever-badass-monster-you-come-up-with-and-kick-kobold-ass." thing, my GM does enforce the rule that i have to have seen the monster to be able to turn into it. that, and i can only wild shape once per day as of right now. so it's vital that i have a good weapon. also, in my party, there are no fighters, i'm the "tank" of the group (as well as the healer, we have no cleric). we are a bit of a motley crew.
Fatalis_902 06-17-07, 11:22 PM	You're playing tank and healbot, and you're going Master of Many Forms? Please excuse me while I ponder this conundrum. It just doesn't make sense. You lose out on more spells by going MoMF, so healing doesn't work so well. Also, why can you only wildshape once per day? Doesn't MoMF stack with Druid levels for determining uses of wildshape? Or something like that where he should be able to wildshape multiple times per day?
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-18-07, 12:52 AM	I'm confused... According to my DMG the damage die on a gargantuan maul would 4d8. (PG 28) Also the master of many forms that i am fimmiliar with allows its levels to stack with druid levels for determining duration of wild shape. It also allows wild of once per day per class level, so according to my math that would 3 wilds sahpes per day. (1 for druid 5, and 2 for MomF 2). Also each wildshape would last for 7 hours. Also you can cast summon nature's alley 3 right? This allows you to summon a dire weasel, dire wolf and ape. Perhaps use thoughts forms? Oh and you can turn into any humanoid you've run into....
APannos36 06-18-07, 01:39 PM	Well, it seems that I have some things to sort out. Here we go: You're playing tank and healbot, and you're going Master of Many Forms? Please excuse me while I ponder this conundrum. It just doesn't make sense. You lose out on more spells by going MoMF, so healing doesn't work so well. Also, why can you only wildshape once per day? Doesn't MoMF stack with Druid levels for determining uses of wildshape? Or something like that where he should be able to wildshape multiple times per day? Well, when i was trying to figure out what PrC to go with, I didn't know that MMoF did not stack with my caster levels until i was taking my second level in it and asked about my new spells only to have my DM tell me that i don't get spellcaster levels for MMoF. and as far as the once per day wild shape, please refer to my response below. I'm confused... According to my DMG the damage die on a gargantuan maul would 4d8. (PG 28) Also the master of many forms that i am fimmiliar with allows its levels to stack with druid levels for determining duration of wild shape. It also allows wild of once per day per class level, so according to my math that would 3 wilds sahpes per day. (1 for druid 5, and 2 for MomF 2). Also each wildshape would last for 7 hours. Also you can cast summon nature's alley 3 right? This allows you to summon a dire weasel, dire wolf and ape. Perhaps use thoughts forms? Oh and you can turn into any humanoid you've run into.... Let's take this one item at a time.... 1. you are right on the Maul, I think that my DM just didn't look at the chart correctly (or made up the damage on the spot), i looked at the DMG and saw that the Maul would indeed to 4d8 damage. i'll have to tell him that and start using it with 4d8 instead of 3d10. 2. from looking up MMoF and the old Shifter in Master of the Wild, and the Druid section of the PHP, it doesn't say anywhere that the my levels would stack as far as spellcasting as well as using my wild shape more. i think i may veer away from MMoF and look for a different PrC for my Druid. 3. thanks for the tips on getting me more things to turn into with using my Summon Nature's Ally. I also have a Rust Bag of Tricks (pg 248 DMG). i've also started to compile a list of creatures that i have come across. Thanks for all of the help, and by the way, any of you have suggestions as far as where I should go with my character? I'm thinking that I'll stray away from the MMoF. Also, I just talked to my DM, and since i just got my Second Level in MMoF, he will allow me to take that back level and do something else with it. i'll give you a little info on the rest of our party. we consist of a : -My Goliah Druid/MMoF -A Rogue/Invisible Blade -A Binder -An Aristocrat/Swashbuckler/a few fighter levels -A Ranger -and a Wizard who is the Swashbuckler's Cohort
deviknyte 06-18-07, 02:59 PM	However, for short term destruction, Greatclub + Shillelagh = 4d8, so there's your backup weapon at least. Another add on to that is spikes. +2 enchantment bonus, +10 damage and keen. Last an hour per level if you don't have the Spell Compendium. If you do have it (because it came out afterward and thus is the updated version) it last one round/level. Which kinda sucks and I hope gets errataed back. My druid uses a lot of wilding clasps and has a wilding weapon.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-18-07, 03:58 PM	Looks as though I was wrong on the duration. Your wildshapes would only last 5 hours instead of 7. However: A master of many forms also gains one addition use of her wild sahpe ability per class level gained. Complete adventurer Page 59. As for what to do with your druid...Well you have already taken endurance, and alertness to qualify for MoMF, so I'd recommend taking at least 2 levels in for large, and giant wild shape. However if your DM would let you see if you can't swap out those two feats, for well anything else. as for what to do, striaght druid is pretty cool in its own rights.
APannos36 06-18-07, 04:09 PM	Looks as though I was wrong on the duration. Your wildshapes would only last 5 hours instead of 7. However: A master of many forms also gains one addition use of her wild sahpe ability per class level gained. Complete adventurer Page 59. well, i see that i am able to wild shape 4 times per day then, that's pretty cool. even if i take that second level back, i'll still have an additional wild shape per caster level as i advance. on a side note, i'm thinking of looking into planar shepard for a PrC. Or maybe I'll just stick with a straight Druid. who knows. i've still got some work ahead of me with this character.
APannos36 06-18-07, 09:18 PM	any one have any thoughts at all? please?
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-18-07, 09:30 PM	Planar Shepard is good. really good, as is Moon speaker, and well straight druid. For feats i'd go with faster wild shape (CD) and extra wild shape (Also CD). Not at the expense of natural spell (PHB).
APannos36 06-18-07, 09:41 PM	Planar Shepard is good. really good, as is Moon speaker, and well straight druid. For feats i'd go with faster wild shape (CD) and extra wild shape (Also CD). Not at the expense of natural spell (PHB). Ahh, feedback! Thank you wings. what is/where is moon speaker? and what book does CD stand for (i'm not that familiar with all the shorthand yet).
Ace_of_time 06-18-07, 10:00 PM	if you don't mind taking a feat for exotic weapon proficiency, i'd go with a great falchion from Sandstorm. it's a 1d12 two-handed weapon, with a 18-20/x2 crit range. if you resize it from medium to huge/gargantuan/whatever, i don't know what the new damage would be but i'm sure it'd be healthy (i believe damage resizing is on page 24 of the DMG, or somewhere in the mid 20s). you stack keen or imp. crit on top of there, and you'd be talking about a hurtin for certain. Page 28 3d6 for one size up, 4d6 2 sizes up and 6d6 for 3 sizes up. Might want keen too.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-19-07, 12:45 AM	Ahh, feedback! Thank you wings. what is/where is moon speaker? and what book does CD stand for (i'm not that familiar with all the shorthand yet). races of ebberon. CD = Complete Divine
Ace_of_time 06-19-07, 02:44 AM	If you see a book that you can't understand what the abbreviation are for there is a list under all the consolidation list with them on it. If that helps.
APannos36 06-20-07, 01:15 PM	Well, i talked with my DM, and Planar Shepard is a out. he said that if i wanted to do that, the whole party would have to agree to bail on our current quest in order for me to be able to travel between planes. he said that this campaign will not be doing any planar travel. and if i still wanted to do it and travel by myself, we would be breaking the cardinal sin of "never seperate the party". oh well, i guess my plan to be a planar shepard, choose the elemental plane of fire, then eventually be able to wild shape into and Efreet and grant wishes for the party won't happen. no big deal. i'll have to look at some other PrC's. I am however, going to take one level in fighter so i can use more weapons (not armor since i take penelties in me druid aspect), and i get a new feat. maybe i'll do Stonespeaker Guardian from Races of Stone.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-20-07, 01:52 PM	I wouldn't recommend a level in fighter. It'd be the same as taking a level of commoner for the better will save.
APannos36 06-20-07, 02:08 PM	I wouldn't recommend a level in fighter. It'd be the same as taking a level of commoner for the better will save. well, the reason for the level in fighter is this: we just got a +4 greataxe with frost strike in a treasure, i was thinking i could take that, get a good large wooden shield, and enchant it. (since i'm a goliath, i can use a greataxe one-handed) and use my feat to take stone form (a prereq for stonespeaker guardian). then i would be well on my way to that PrC. Oh, i also took power attack and cleave earlier on; so if i don't want to do stonespeaker, i could take great cleave, that way i can mow guys down in melee (since i am the heavy hitter in my party, but only have one attack as of right now) as well as summoning, spellcasting, and shifting. i'm still debating on this though. what do you guys think?
APannos36 06-20-07, 03:05 PM	ok, the axe that i said was a +4 is only a +3 with frost strike. what else do you think i should do to it if i choose to take the level in fighter? and what enchantments whould be good for a shield? oh, also, we have gotten some dragonhide. i'm going to have some armor made out of it. what armor should i make? (since i will be able to wear it w/o penelty) and what are good enchantments for armor? thanks for the advice.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-20-07, 04:50 PM	You seem to be playing your druid like a barbarian. Druids rarely use weapons because they often have about a bizzilion things better to do in combat. The druid draws combat power from two main things. 1) Wild shape: It allows you to become large, fly, swim, and whatever else the situation dictates. Further because the forms your changing into will have more combat out put they you do, it is best to use their natural weapons, and attack forms. This usually means that as a druid you'll be taking feats that help those. For example taking improved grapple. When you wild shape into say a tiger, or dire lion you can extra rake attacks well grappling, thus improved grapple helps you grapple better. The tiger gets pounce which lets it make a full attack on a charge. It also has one bite, and two claw attacks, (at this point I also recommend multi attack) and two rakes if its grappling. So one the first round of combat it charges in, attacks with a bite, and two claws, then if it can successfully win its improved grapple check it can take two more rake attacks. For a total of 5 attacks on a charge. Now a druid of 8th level swinging a great axe will only have one attack on a charge, and then only 2 during regular rounds. 2) Spells. A druids spells are not to be under estimated. They allow the druid to call in aid, through summons, and make itself, and animal companion even stronger. One top of that a druid has flame strike, and more importantly cures, and restoration. Allowing it blast as well as patch it, and the party up after the fight. And that is on top of the best self buffs in the game, and summon nature's alley which is far superior to summon monster. For example a druid opens a combat buy using summon nature's alley 3 to call in d3 hippowgriffs. And send in its animal companion. The next round the druid casts a buff spell on the animal companion. Bite of the werewolf is a good one. Now on round two the druid has d3 dire wolves + animal companion making full attacks. As compared to just one if he were to be swing that great axe himself. The next round, the fight is still going one the druid can wild shape and join the melee. Making it so round 4 you get the equivalent of d3 +2 full attack options. Instead of just one, or 2 with the great axe. If your DM will let you I recommend making your druid like so: druid X (Were X = your level) Race human For feats: 1st Spell focus conjuration, and augmented summoning. (PHB) 3rd: augmented healing CD 6th: Natural spell PHB 9th: faster wild shape CD 12th: extra wild shape CD Skills: 4 ranks in heal for augmented healing, maybe some into spot. Abilities: max out wisdom, and constitution. After that Charisma is important as your higher level monster abilities require it for their save DCs. For gear, Druids vestments, and maybe a wand or two of cure X wounds. Pearls of power are nice if your not spending all your time in wild shape. You may also want to consider wilding armor, and perhaps an animated shield. If however what I described above isn't your thing. perhaps another class all together. maybe barbarian/fighter into bear warrior. Or perhaps cleric with the destruction, and strength domains. Maybe even paladin? Don't get me wrong the druid is the most powerful thing out there, and diffinately a good tank, but only if used properly. And if it isn't your style, then it isn't your style. PS: large stature doesn't allow you to wield a two handed weapon one handed... at least not under the 3.5 rules set. However if you want the axe, and a shield go for an animated shield.
APannos36 06-20-07, 06:09 PM	wow, i'll take all that ^^ as "constructive critisism" in response, i really like playing my druid, he's really cool. i use my summon natures ally quite a bit. it's gotten me and my party out of quite a few jams. as well as using my spells. entangle has been a great help, as well as my healing spells seeing as i'm the only healer of the group. since my party hasn't gotten in a fight in the last 2 or 3 sessions, i haven't used wild shape yet (i only got it 4 sessions ago). i plan on using that a lot, and with my 1 level in MMoF, i will be able to do it more per day. on changing my character, my DM won't just let me roll up a new druid, and i don't want to. i like my goliath. i may be a bit unorthodox as far a druids go, but i certainly am using my druidic abilities when they are needed. i can't wait to use nature's rampart to set up a defensive position. also, my Rust bag of tricks gives me an extra animal at my side whenever i need it. i don't want a new character, i just want some help/advice with my current one.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-20-07, 07:04 PM	ok well post whatcha got, and what you wanna do with it, and I'll see what i can do.
APannos36 06-20-07, 07:21 PM	ok well post whatcha got, and what you wanna do with it, and I'll see what i can do. ok, it may take me a little bit to put this up though, i've got some things to do tonight. i'll get it up as soon as i can.
APannos36 06-22-07, 10:27 AM	Alright, here is my character sheet as of right now. this will be changing on Sunday (June 24) since we will be getting some treasure and gold from an encounter we had: Class: Druid/5 MMoF/2 (but I can take one of them back) Race: Goliath Align: Law/Neut Height: 8’5” Weight: 365 STR 20 DEX 14 CON 17 INT 12 WIS 22 CHA 14 AC: 19 Initiative: +2 Base attack bonus: +4 Hit Points: 72 Armor: Studded Leather (will be getting a dragonhide of some kind to improve AC) Shield: Buckler Weapon: +1 Maul, attack bonus: +10, damage, 4d8+8, crit 20 x3, notes: +1, Gargantuan, lightweight, I can use w/o penalty Back up weapon: MW Huge Scimitar, attack bonus: +9, damage: 2d6 +7, crit: 18-20 x2 Other attacks/useful items: Hawk animal companion: 2 wing attacks that do 1d8 damage per wing -2, crit 19-20 x2 (weapon that my DM gave my bird Marble Elephant “Figurine of Wondrous Power” statue (turns into a true elephant as per page 272 in the Monster Manual on my command). I can use it 4 times per week Rust Bag of Tricks: I can reach in and pull out a fuzzy ball that turns into an animal (chart on page 248 in DM guide) I control it for 10 minutes, or until killed. The animal can follow “handle animal” commands. Only one can exist at a time, I can use it 10 times per week. Other Items: Ring of Protection +3, Type 1 Bag of Holding, Rust Bag of Tricks, Wisdom Circlet (+4 to WIS) Skills: Concentration: 11 Handle Animal: 7 Heal: 4 Knowledge Nature: 8 Listen: 13 Ride: 4 Search: 10 Sense Motive: 4 Spot: 13 Survival: 11 Class Features Nature Space Wild Empathy Woodland Stride Trackless Step Resist Natures Lure Wild Shape 5/day Shifters Speech Improved Wild Shape (humanoid and Large forms – but large will go away when I take away my level in MMoF) Feats: Endurance Power Attack Cleave Eschew Materials
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-22-07, 01:18 PM	Hmm well first off, you technically do not qualify for Master of Many forms as you lack Alertness. So I guess we may as well take those two levels back. Also see if your DM well let you swap out endurance as well. For feats: I recommend taking your next feat as natural spell. (If your DM will let you switch out endurance take that instead) This will let you cast while in wild shape which will give you way more then a weapon ever could. Also eschew materials is kinda a dead feat for you because not many, if any druid spells have material components. Take maybe spell focus conj, or anything else really. Spell focus conj puts you on the road for augmented summoning though. Now for those two levels of yours. Druid 2 is always good. It will give two more uses of wild shape, and next level you can wild large size, which is were the fun begins. On the other hand one level of monk will give a feat, +2 to all your saves, unarmed strike, and +6 to your AC. You'll have to ditch your armor though. Animal companion. If your DM will let you swap it out, have you thought of picking up a Dire; boar, wolf, ape, or rino. (Require 7 levels of druid) All offer superior tanking to an eagle. However if you like the eagle thats cool too. Gear: I'm of two minds on this: 1) Your spending most of your time in wildshape so you don't need too much of it. Get things that work while in wildshape, and/or gear for you animal companion. most gear is useless as it melds into your form and becomes useless when wilding shaping. 2) If you are going to stay as golieth, then pick up stat enhancement items, and pearls of power, and a metamagic rod of extend spell is a must. You can't go wrong with wands. Still on gear if you want to get really cheap. (as in cruel) use a ring of invisibility 20,000gp and a meta magic rod of silent spell 11,000gp. Now a lot of people think this tactic is bad form. Personally I think its just using your head. Also an animated shield is just plain cool. Spells: Your primary weapon is mostly wooden, which is good. If you want to use it then go with Shilaughe, brambles, entangling staff, and spikes. I also recommend that you keep your animal companion close so as to double dip cures, and buffs. For siad buffs the best I've seen are in the spell compendium, and they are the bite X series. Starting at second level, and improving from their they do just about everything a buff can and usually contained in one spell. For example bite of the were boar is a 4th level spell, and grants +4 enhancement bonus to strength, +6 enhancement bonus to con, and +8 enhancement bonus to natural armor. Lasts a round per level. Your stats look good, just remember to pump everything to wisdom. Into the future: Wilding shaping, for now you can only become medium or small, which is good for utility, like swimming and flying, but not much else. (for you) However once you reach 8th level druid you can turn into large animals. I recomend the big cats. However a rino is fun. Feats: If you want to spend most of your time in wild shape then I recommend taking faster wild shape, and extra wild shape. If not then we need to put those wild shape uses to work. The complete divine has some wild feats in it. They allow you to burn a wild shape ability to gain an aspect of the animal. For example Elephants hide lets burn a wild shape to gain 7 natural armor. When used in conjunction with bite of the were boar and the gear you have now, you'll have an AC of 33. As for levels, again Prestieging isn't going to benefit you much. In fact most of the time you'll be giving up more then you get. However hers a brief look at what the "good" druid PrCs offer you. Master of many forms: you loss animal companion progression, and spell progression. You gain however more and better wild shape. But since you sound like thats not your thing, isn't much. Further the druids higher levels spells + its wild shape are better then the master of many forms wild shape. Planar Shepard: You give up very little. a couple of feats I think. You gain UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!!! But your DM said no, so that one is out. Moon Speaker: This gives you some funky abilities that use wild and shifting. It also helps your summons, and wild shaping. however It requires you to be a shifter, and retards your animal companion a bit. Arcane highrophant: This one is really good. For the low price of 3 levels of wizard you gain arcane spell casting, and your familiar gains abilities just as if it were you animal companion, and vise versa. Further the class continues your spell casting, and wild shape. All for a 3 level hit to druid levels. (One if you get funky with preciouses caster.) Normally I'd recommend it, but you int is really low, too low for you to benefit form arcane spells. Honestly your better off with straight druid, as no other class can hold a candle to it. If you *have* to multi class then a one level dip into monk would be the only thing that would give you more then you give up. Cheers.
Jackmojo 06-22-07, 02:20 PM	On_the_wings_of_TPK's advice is all sound, my only addition would be to take a gander at the newest version of the Druid Handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=733400) its only about 6 months out of date or so, so most of the advice is very sound. Also if you're going to have to keep the first level of Master of Many Forms, there is actually somerthing to be said for getting the first three, since that nets you both Giants and Monstrous Humanoids. Add in the 4th Level Druid spell Enhance wildshape and you'll be very ready to rumble (plus if your game goes on long enough you still get 9th level spells eventually). If you're allowed to drop it, I'd ditch all three levels since you're needing to heal and will need the spell levels. Jack
APannos36 06-23-07, 08:56 AM	well, i talked with my DM, and i brought up the fact that i don't have alertness, so i can have MMoF. he said that i was right and that i can take those 2 levels of it back. and i've made up my mind on my character, it's time for me to go straight druid. Wings, thank you so much. you've helped out quite a bit. i'm definitly going to see about swapping some of my feats out. another question though, if i take great cleave, will i be able to use its abilities in wild shape? if i can, that would be great. that's why i've been taking the power attack and cleave; so i can get my way to great cleave and mow guys down when i'm in wild shape. also, natural spell is a must for me, i'll be taking that ASAP. since i've never played as a druid before, all the advice that i've been getting has been a big help. i'm going to look up the pearls of power, and that metamagic rod of extended spells to see just what they can do. thanks a lot, and if you have anymore advice, please let me know. i'll post any changes in my druid after i redo my 2 levels later on today. i'll also post any new/changed weapons, armor, etc after as they come along.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-23-07, 11:30 AM	Yes you can use cleave, and great cleave while in wild shape. Your welcome. Happy gaming.