A DM favoritism issue. [Archive] - Wizards Community

A DM favoritism issue. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gagnrath
10-15-07, 04:05 AM The DM in the group I play with plays serious favorites based on who the player is to the characters in his game. One of our players is a fairly experianced player who makes sub-optimal characters and is the DM's just about only close friend in the world. (fun guy always willing to play what the group needs but just throws stuff together not really thinking about weather or not it'll work and or based on his mood are funny) Another always takes up for the DM in most any arguement and does him lots of small favors outside of game time. Both of these get lots of in charcter toys and its starting to cause problems. The others based on how much things they do in game make the DM work get harshly penalized and or specifically targeted to the point of stupidity.

Anyways one of our characters had limited knowledge of a magic item, He let one of the characters of a favoured player use it after a couple of oblique warnings, knowing that the odds were high the magic item would attack this other character, a paladin of torm. (though not certain) The item got really lucky rolls and rolled 3 critical hits in a row. Killing the paladin (which was made to die in the first place the player told us this to start with leaving the gold peices of the character to go to the new character that was ready made in the wings.). The dead paladin (LG paladin of torm) was then given permission to death cuse the character handing him the sword, (which is CG required by class to be chaotic) This curse essentially makes the chracter long term unplayable, and due to not knowing about the curse when he goes to the tymple of tymora gets told he must replace the paladin in torms order, that tymora agreed with torm on this, and after "years in his loyal service then torm may remove the curse" (the paladin was a 64 year old human The other character is a 146 year old elf) Oh this was the 4th charcter for the favoured player this campaign and the cursed character has been there from the start.
Black Kitten
10-15-07, 08:05 AM I have tried to understand your problem, but it's a bit hard to read between the lines. Perhaps you could try to put in a few white-lines between the various scentences?

For the rest: The main problem with DM favoring is that the DM probably feels s/he is in a sort of position of power. A DM shouldn't really have such power and you should talk to him about it. Perhaps explaining to him that making characters unplayable isn't fun and fun is what it is all about.

Your DM should try to preserve fun for the whole group and rotate the person in the limelight frequently. Perhaps suggest to him to ensure every session has at least 1 part aimed towards a certain character, or encounters where multiple characters could succeed at a given task.
DracoPhoenix
10-15-07, 08:22 AM (ok, aplogies, but: paragraphs (http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50171060?query_type=word&queryword=paragraph&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&result_place=1&search_id=5491-vuR3s0-3763&hilite=50171060). Please)

From what I've worked out,
1) There's DM favouritism, and the "subject" is not favoured.
2) The DM allowed a "favoured one" to use a cursed item, (which came with cryptic warnings, so not wholly the giver's fault) - which killed him.
3) The now (planned to) die Paladin, dies, and his replacement basically gets a free co-hort because the Deus Ex God agrees with the Paladin's god about the unfavoured PCs indentured servant-hood to the Paladin's god.

Well, a bit excessive - given you did try to warn him (& the DM would be expected to offer a much more cryptic warning :)).

Retire the character to go off and "atone for his sins". Thus no longer able to play in this particular campaign (at least under your control, DMPC / co-hort is fine).

Then roll up a remarkably similar character and continue as if nothing happened :).
Gagnrath
10-15-07, 11:20 AM Not my character.

Curse was to our high damage per round scout/pyrotechnist. This is the closest thing to true fighter in the group at the moment. Rest is spell casters. With varing degress of fighting ability. From none-to a force centered spell caster who's pretty decent as a fighter.

Curse is that half of any damage dealt by him no matter what form comes back as divine damage to the character. Oh and theres no healer in the group.

The favoritism has also come in other forms though I'm not one of the favoured, Some people get access through no extra in character work to spells that are forbidden to the rest of the group. When a character wants to do an action requiring a skill check in remarkably similiar circumstances the favoured player has lower dc's. Its in may ways funny because we've actually gotten one of the favoured players to go first on any hazarous terrain to ensure tht the DC stays in the range of possibility for others.

The favourites also get granted things like spellfire weaving, and random stat boosts when they complete quests but their compainins who often times do more than they don't get rewarded in this manner. Choosen of various gods also seems to flow this way. At first we thought that perhaps it was little things that those characters were doing that the others weren't but after 18 months or so everyone has pretty much come to the conlusion that it is those players.
DrMorganes
10-15-07, 11:57 AM Vote with your feet.

I played in one and only one game with a similar DM. He'd randomly assign penalties to characters when players argued with him. The final straw was when a clever (and perfectly legal) tactic pointed out a major weakness in his BBEG, who when down in the first round. The DM actually got angry - livid, really - and told the player who came up with the idea, immediately after the BBEG went down, "Your character is dead. *Pow* Musta had a heart attack or something."

I told the DM he was an immature twit who had no idea how to run a fair and balanced game, packed up my gear, thanked the rest of my group for the invite, and went home.

The point of the story? Assuming we're getting the whole truth of the matter, there's no way you can win here. The DM seems unable to separate himself from the game and apparently sees nothing with doling out in-game punishments as a way to maintain his Ultimate Cosmic Power (TM).
Black Kitten
10-15-07, 03:17 PM If you have been playing for 18 months, you are pretty solid in the group. I would say that gives you a voice in the group as well.

Simply said, in my opinion, you're playing with the whole group, that includes the DM. EVERYONE should be having fun. You, them, the DM.

Talk to your DM. Put to him that he is making people feel bad about their character. It doesn't matter whatever good reason he has for it, just tell him you don't like it. You didn't 'ask' for it and you don't want to play on.

If your DM argues with you on and on why certain characters deserve something and some characters don't, you'll get the clue. I have DM'ed quite a lot of groups and I have, on occasion, gimped IG rewards because the IG solution would destroy the OOG game.

The basis is respect. Without that basic need, no game can survive.
wonlee76
10-15-07, 04:50 PM It sounds like a crappy DM but I'll play devil's advocate.

Based on what you said about the favored player, he's not into or refuses to optimize his PCs resulting sometimes in something that is probably underpowered compared to most of your group.

I'm not sure about the other player who is favored by the DM since you didn't mention whether he builds underpowered PCs or not.

The issue of giving out special goodies to a "weak" PC may be a simple but heavy handed way of a DM trying to have the group balanced against each other instead of trying to go through the hassle of coming up with challenging encounters that is "fun" for the whole party.

Based on what little information you provided, I'm guessing this might be one small reason. The other stuff is just blatant favoritism such as lower skill check DCs and what not. I'm inclined to say the DM is doing a crappy job but with additional information, I might understand where the DM is coming from.
Gagnrath
10-16-07, 10:50 AM The other player builds average to powerful pc's for the group usually fairly well balanced. When he gets the DM granted goodies his charcters become hugely powerful. Most of his favoritism in his case comes from getting nifty artifacts and or being granted templates and classes that no one else is permitted.

Most of the games are fairly fun but there has been a growing sense of discontent amoung the players about the stupid things the DM does and rather alot of churn amoung the players, with people getting miffed and leaving for a couple of weeks then coming back. There is usually at least one or two fights over stupidity on the DM's part or inconsistancy per 7 to 9 hour session. I think part of the problem there is that over time he's shown not to know rules and change his rulings on vague areas and has thus lost everyones confidence in him.
DracoPhoenix
10-16-07, 01:02 PM No chance anyone else can pick up the mantle?

No favourites, no returning of favours to the current DM, just pick up the dice & lets roll, sort of thing?

If you don't want to leave the group -which is not unreasonable when it's only one problem person, even if it's the DM, then the only other option is to remove the problem player.
In this case the DM, which does complicate matters.

Pop down the local store, pick up a L1-4 module, read it through a few times and let everyone else know that you'll be happy to try your hand at the game. (Informing the DM & favoured ones is your discretion).

Expect mistakes, expect the fallen DM to point out every tiny mistake or how he'd have handled something.
Just be fair, and unless it causes a TPK try "We'll do that from now on then" - evidence / logic permitting (and does not apply to house rule "suggestions").

I have never had a problem with DM0 designed to streamline games (to avoid 30mins book searching etc) or set up campaign specific rules. I do have a problem with, as one player's DM put it:
DM:"Your character is dead. *Pow* Musta had a heart attack or something."
Empirate
10-18-07, 10:07 AM One aspect could use a little more information to go on: How do the favored players see the issue? If they're sensible folk, maybe all it takes is getting them on your side. Maybe they could talk to the DM, even point out "No, I think the DC for that should be 3 higher for me. See, Bob here had to roll a 17 to pull it off" or even go "Actually, thanks a lot, Old-Hermit-On-The-Hill, but I'll pass that on to Bob here. He has much more use for a sword as powerful as that than I do."
What you need to do is sample the feelings in your group as a whole. If everybody, even the favored players, thinks the DM isn't doing that great of a job, he's already lost any argument there could be. Don't let yourself be fed with in-game reasoning or even any reasoning at all. All it ought to take is somebody saying "DM, this game isn't satisfying to me. Change it." In an ideal gaming group, that is how things work. The DM provides fun, and challenges, but not dissatisfaction for some while heaping favor on others. That's the DM's job.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gagnrath 10-15-07, 04:05 AM	The DM in the group I play with plays serious favorites based on who the player is to the characters in his game. One of our players is a fairly experianced player who makes sub-optimal characters and is the DM's just about only close friend in the world. (fun guy always willing to play what the group needs but just throws stuff together not really thinking about weather or not it'll work and or based on his mood are funny) Another always takes up for the DM in most any arguement and does him lots of small favors outside of game time. Both of these get lots of in charcter toys and its starting to cause problems. The others based on how much things they do in game make the DM work get harshly penalized and or specifically targeted to the point of stupidity. Anyways one of our characters had limited knowledge of a magic item, He let one of the characters of a favoured player use it after a couple of oblique warnings, knowing that the odds were high the magic item would attack this other character, a paladin of torm. (though not certain) The item got really lucky rolls and rolled 3 critical hits in a row. Killing the paladin (which was made to die in the first place the player told us this to start with leaving the gold peices of the character to go to the new character that was ready made in the wings.). The dead paladin (LG paladin of torm) was then given permission to death cuse the character handing him the sword, (which is CG required by class to be chaotic) This curse essentially makes the chracter long term unplayable, and due to not knowing about the curse when he goes to the tymple of tymora gets told he must replace the paladin in torms order, that tymora agreed with torm on this, and after "years in his loyal service then torm may remove the curse" (the paladin was a 64 year old human The other character is a 146 year old elf) Oh this was the 4th charcter for the favoured player this campaign and the cursed character has been there from the start.
Black Kitten 10-15-07, 08:05 AM	I have tried to understand your problem, but it's a bit hard to read between the lines. Perhaps you could try to put in a few white-lines between the various scentences? For the rest: The main problem with DM favoring is that the DM probably feels s/he is in a sort of position of power. A DM shouldn't really have such power and you should talk to him about it. Perhaps explaining to him that making characters unplayable isn't fun and fun is what it is all about. Your DM should try to preserve fun for the whole group and rotate the person in the limelight frequently. Perhaps suggest to him to ensure every session has at least 1 part aimed towards a certain character, or encounters where multiple characters could succeed at a given task.
DracoPhoenix 10-15-07, 08:22 AM	(ok, aplogies, but: paragraphs (http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50171060?query_type=word&queryword=paragraph&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&result_place=1&search_id=5491-vuR3s0-3763&hilite=50171060). Please) From what I've worked out, 1) There's DM favouritism, and the "subject" is not favoured. 2) The DM allowed a "favoured one" to use a cursed item, (which came with cryptic warnings, so not wholly the giver's fault) - which killed him. 3) The now (planned to) die Paladin, dies, and his replacement basically gets a free co-hort because the Deus Ex God agrees with the Paladin's god about the unfavoured PCs indentured servant-hood to the Paladin's god. Well, a bit excessive - given you did try to warn him (& the DM would be expected to offer a much more cryptic warning :)). Retire the character to go off and "atone for his sins". Thus no longer able to play in this particular campaign (at least under your control, DMPC / co-hort is fine). Then roll up a remarkably similar character and continue as if nothing happened :).
Gagnrath 10-15-07, 11:20 AM	Not my character. Curse was to our high damage per round scout/pyrotechnist. This is the closest thing to true fighter in the group at the moment. Rest is spell casters. With varing degress of fighting ability. From none-to a force centered spell caster who's pretty decent as a fighter. Curse is that half of any damage dealt by him no matter what form comes back as divine damage to the character. Oh and theres no healer in the group. The favoritism has also come in other forms though I'm not one of the favoured, Some people get access through no extra in character work to spells that are forbidden to the rest of the group. When a character wants to do an action requiring a skill check in remarkably similiar circumstances the favoured player has lower dc's. Its in may ways funny because we've actually gotten one of the favoured players to go first on any hazarous terrain to ensure tht the DC stays in the range of possibility for others. The favourites also get granted things like spellfire weaving, and random stat boosts when they complete quests but their compainins who often times do more than they don't get rewarded in this manner. Choosen of various gods also seems to flow this way. At first we thought that perhaps it was little things that those characters were doing that the others weren't but after 18 months or so everyone has pretty much come to the conlusion that it is those players.
DrMorganes 10-15-07, 11:57 AM	Vote with your feet. I played in one and only one game with a similar DM. He'd randomly assign penalties to characters when players argued with him. The final straw was when a clever (and perfectly legal) tactic pointed out a major weakness in his BBEG, who when down in the first round. The DM actually got angry - livid, really - and told the player who came up with the idea, immediately after the BBEG went down, "Your character is dead. Pow Musta had a heart attack or something." I told the DM he was an immature twit who had no idea how to run a fair and balanced game, packed up my gear, thanked the rest of my group for the invite, and went home. The point of the story? Assuming we're getting the whole truth of the matter, there's no way you can win here. The DM seems unable to separate himself from the game and apparently sees nothing with doling out in-game punishments as a way to maintain his Ultimate Cosmic Power (TM).
Black Kitten 10-15-07, 03:17 PM	If you have been playing for 18 months, you are pretty solid in the group. I would say that gives you a voice in the group as well. Simply said, in my opinion, you're playing with the whole group, that includes the DM. EVERYONE should be having fun. You, them, the DM. Talk to your DM. Put to him that he is making people feel bad about their character. It doesn't matter whatever good reason he has for it, just tell him you don't like it. You didn't 'ask' for it and you don't want to play on. If your DM argues with you on and on why certain characters deserve something and some characters don't, you'll get the clue. I have DM'ed quite a lot of groups and I have, on occasion, gimped IG rewards because the IG solution would destroy the OOG game. The basis is respect. Without that basic need, no game can survive.
wonlee76 10-15-07, 04:50 PM	It sounds like a crappy DM but I'll play devil's advocate. Based on what you said about the favored player, he's not into or refuses to optimize his PCs resulting sometimes in something that is probably underpowered compared to most of your group. I'm not sure about the other player who is favored by the DM since you didn't mention whether he builds underpowered PCs or not. The issue of giving out special goodies to a "weak" PC may be a simple but heavy handed way of a DM trying to have the group balanced against each other instead of trying to go through the hassle of coming up with challenging encounters that is "fun" for the whole party. Based on what little information you provided, I'm guessing this might be one small reason. The other stuff is just blatant favoritism such as lower skill check DCs and what not. I'm inclined to say the DM is doing a crappy job but with additional information, I might understand where the DM is coming from.
Gagnrath 10-16-07, 10:50 AM	The other player builds average to powerful pc's for the group usually fairly well balanced. When he gets the DM granted goodies his charcters become hugely powerful. Most of his favoritism in his case comes from getting nifty artifacts and or being granted templates and classes that no one else is permitted. Most of the games are fairly fun but there has been a growing sense of discontent amoung the players about the stupid things the DM does and rather alot of churn amoung the players, with people getting miffed and leaving for a couple of weeks then coming back. There is usually at least one or two fights over stupidity on the DM's part or inconsistancy per 7 to 9 hour session. I think part of the problem there is that over time he's shown not to know rules and change his rulings on vague areas and has thus lost everyones confidence in him.
DracoPhoenix 10-16-07, 01:02 PM	No chance anyone else can pick up the mantle? No favourites, no returning of favours to the current DM, just pick up the dice & lets roll, sort of thing? If you don't want to leave the group -which is not unreasonable when it's only one problem person, even if it's the DM, then the only other option is to remove the problem player. In this case the DM, which does complicate matters. Pop down the local store, pick up a L1-4 module, read it through a few times and let everyone else know that you'll be happy to try your hand at the game. (Informing the DM & favoured ones is your discretion). Expect mistakes, expect the fallen DM to point out every tiny mistake or how he'd have handled something. Just be fair, and unless it causes a TPK try "We'll do that from now on then" - evidence / logic permitting (and does not apply to house rule "suggestions"). I have never had a problem with DM0 designed to streamline games (to avoid 30mins book searching etc) or set up campaign specific rules. I do have a problem with, as one player's DM put it: DM:"Your character is dead. Pow Musta had a heart attack or something."
Empirate 10-18-07, 10:07 AM	One aspect could use a little more information to go on: How do the favored players see the issue? If they're sensible folk, maybe all it takes is getting them on your side. Maybe they could talk to the DM, even point out "No, I think the DC for that should be 3 higher for me. See, Bob here had to roll a 17 to pull it off" or even go "Actually, thanks a lot, Old-Hermit-On-The-Hill, but I'll pass that on to Bob here. He has much more use for a sword as powerful as that than I do." What you need to do is sample the feelings in your group as a whole. If everybody, even the favored players, thinks the DM isn't doing that great of a job, he's already lost any argument there could be. Don't let yourself be fed with in-game reasoning or even any reasoning at all. All it ought to take is somebody saying "DM, this game isn't satisfying to me. Change it." In an ideal gaming group, that is how things work. The DM provides fun, and challenges, but not dissatisfaction for some while heaping favor on others. That's the DM's job.