Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KillerVole 12-03-07, 11:23 PM	Hello everyone. I have a small problem. I have recently been playing under a DM who is also a good friend of mine. He was one of the first DMs I ever played under, and I recall the old campaign he ran quite fondly. Unfortunately, things have changed since then. I bought the rulebooks, read the rules, and DMed for four years myself. Then, I joined his new campaign. I have found that I may have been a little nostalgic about things. Simply put, the DM has no grasp of the rules, and his structure makes me cringe. The first problem is his reading of the combat rules. He thinks everything provokes attacks of opportunity. Miss an attack on an enemy? AOO. Cast a spell, even defensively? AOO. Five foot step? AOO. Cast a spell from across the room? AOO, with a spell. The players don't seem to benefit from this. He also likes tossing debilitating effects onto, well, everything. A level four fighter, with 30 hit points, is hit by an arrow for three damage. The DM announces that the arrow has impaled his arm, rendering it useless, or his leg halving his speed, or his gut, and he will bleed to death in five rounds. Now, I don't mind a little realism, but I didn't sign up to play GURPS. Also, again, this only happens to PCs. NPCs are a bit of a problem. Guards are almost invariably high level casters in full plate. Now, this wouldn't be such a problem, except that we are stuck on a plot that pits us against the guards. They all cast fireballs, and have an AC of at least 25 (we don't know, having never actually hit). We mostly flee for our lives, and try to slow them down. He also seems a little unclear on alignment. In my opinion, a LN guard would not try to execute trespassers, who are trying to surrender, on the spot, because "the reward will make me rich." Finally, and this may be my fault to some degree, he views spellcasting as inherently broken. I play an enchanter, and cast Charm Person often. The rest of the group is made up of fighters and the like, and I am more powerful, as I use tactics and plan spell use in advance. The problem is, everyone's a better caster than me (especially guards in full plate) and they all do stuff (push people onto me, hit me for one damage, causing such pain that I can't concentrate no matter how well I roll, etc.) to neutralize any casting ability. I've tried having rules chats, but he is absolutely convinced that he is running the game exactly how it is presented in the books. I really need some non-confrontational ways to draw his attention to his problems, and make the campaign fun. I'm going to stick this one out, though if it doesn't improve I will just find ways to be busy during future campaigns. Does anyone have any advice on how to help me help this guy improve his DMing?
Salla 12-03-07, 11:50 PM	It's always bad when a friend runs a game you don't enjoy. I'm having that issue myself, though with a completely different problem than yours. You can, obviously, go through every last detail, step by step, that shows what he's doing wrong ("There's no entry on the AoO table for missing an enemy."), but it seems that it won't do any good. It'll be hard, but all you can really do is tell him that his game isn't fun, and isn't fair, and you're choosing not to participate. Make sure he knows you're not ending the friendship or something, but the fact that the NPCs and PCs operate under a completely different set of rules (they get to do things that you can NEVER do, like cripple-shots) means you aren't even playing; you're just listening to him tell a story. It's not cooperative play. It's not D&D.
navar100 12-03-07, 11:51 PM	I think he's burned out on being a DM. He's in a power trip. It's not that he won't learn the rules; it's whatever rules he uses are only against the party while the bad guys can do anything he wants. He needs to step away from behind the screen for awhile.
Salla 12-04-07, 12:08 AM	Hm. Have you ever DM'd? Maybe you could offer to run a game for him ... just don't add the 'to show him how it's supposed to be done' out loud. :)
metalmayhem80110 12-04-07, 12:15 AM	Hm. Have you ever DM'd? Maybe you could offer to run a game for him ... just don't add the 'to show him how it's supposed to be done' out loud. :) I'm not trying to be an @ss or anything, but he did say he DM'd for 4 years... So back on track, I would just have a PHB sitting next to me during the game. When he does something against the rules, just show him the actual rule. After awhile, he'll either read the combat section or get really angry. Either way, it needs to be done :P
Salla 12-04-07, 12:20 AM	I'm not trying to be an @ss or anything, but he did say he DM'd for 4 years... Hey, fair's fair, I doublechecked the thread and blew my spot check. :) I sit duly corrected and chastised. :D So back on track, I would just have a PHB sitting next to me during the game. When he does something against the rules, just show him the actual rule. After awhile, he'll either read the combat section or get really angry. Either way, it needs to be done :P
Etarnon 12-04-07, 12:26 AM	I'd suggest stop trying to tell him how to run his game. If you are having fun, stay. if it's not fun, quit. Decide on that basis.
kirkenix 12-04-07, 01:58 AM	I'd suggest stop trying to tell him how to run his game. If you are having fun, stay. if it's not fun, quit. Decide on that basis. i agree with the above statement. nothing is worse (as im sure u know) then having a player trying to tell u how to DM in game (even tho im sure this is not the approach u were taking). it bogs the game down and kills the atmosphere. it seems that u have already tried talking to him out of game, and he refuses to listen. sometimes ur just going to have to abide but what the DM says, or get out of the game.
Krusk 12-04-07, 01:59 AM	Im actually in quite a similar situation currently. Good friend running a campaign with no grasp of even the most basic of rules. My current solution? Im having a fun time role playing my character and playing with the group -as long as we are not in combat- so im playing, any rules error that comes up i sort of bite my tounge and so long as no one asks "is this right?" i let it go. -i tried pointing it out and gave up- So long as everyone is having fun. That said, i did announce a few weeks ago i would be running my own game in the near future, and invited the entire group to join. Most will be, including the DM. I am hoping that by playing by the rules my dm will eventually learn them and use them in his own game. By no grasp of the most basic of rules, i am talking crit fumble tables so bad that we dont have a single non caster. enemy melee units kill themselves at least once a combat, including enemy BBEG's. Enemy spell casters didnt cast spells at all, until he saw us cast magic missile at level 4 or so. Now thats all his liches and epic archmages cast. Aside from "epic made up mage armor of +50AC and 400 ft range". Which dosnt matter, because any attack roll that does hit has to be a crit. Which almost always "double" or "triple" crits. Meaning its a one hit kill. OH you want to use a skill? well if your die comes up 15 or higher that means instant godlike success. If it is below 15, you fail. Now if you roll a 1, you probably kill yourself somehow. Basically i try to do as little rolling with my character as possible. status buffs, summons and save vs death are my plan of action. And usually its just invisability and summon monster __. who goes off and quadcrits the BBEG and then cuts his own head off.
Salla 12-04-07, 02:51 AM	i agree with the above statement. nothing is worse (as im sure u know) then having a player trying to tell u how to DM in game (even tho im sure this is not the approach u were taking). it bogs the game down and kills the atmosphere. it seems that u have already tried talking to him out of game, and he refuses to listen. sometimes ur just going to have to abide but what the DM says, or get out of the game. The DM is doing a fine job killing the atmosphere himself.
navar100 12-04-07, 02:58 AM	I'd suggest stop trying to tell him how to run his game. If you are having fun, stay. if it's not fun, quit. Decide on that basis. If a player is not enjoying a game, he should be talking to the DM about it. It's the DM's campaign, but it's the players' game too. Reread what's going on. The problem is not the many RAW that are not being followed. The problem is that in all cases it frustrates the party and do not apply to the NPCs. The DM is not being fair.
Calium 12-04-07, 03:48 AM	Honestly your a good DM should be open to player suggestions. Currently I'm DMing a game and I don't keep all the rules memorized (AAO's, the exacts on grappling, overrunning, pinning, ect..) and have a really well experienced player in the group. When we run into a problem I ask him what the rule book regards to do. His answers are usually good enough but I occasionally look up the rule just to be sure if something didn't sound right. However I'm running a extremely relaxed game. IE I actually had a player join the game when the players were about to go from lvl 7-8 and he rolled up a lvl7 monk for the game. Well I relaxed the rules and when the group lvled he lvled. So were not doing anything to intense. Maybe your DM needs to take a more relaxed view of the game and try to think how a player does. May I suggest next time a NPC wearing fullplate decides to cast a spell you show him the rules for Arcane spell failure and suggest the rules of physics apply to people in the real world so why don't the rules for magic apply in a magical world?
Ayra 12-04-07, 04:06 AM	It's best not to bring this up during the game. Rule discussions are a great way to kill a session, because it takes a lot of time that should be put in the game. You should wait until after the session. It would seem fairly unreasonable of him if he doesn't want to listen to you if you're unhappy with the way things are going. You should tell him that the way things are going right now, you're simply not enjoying things like combat. If he doesn't want to listen, you should tell him that you'll find another group to play with (or whatever you prefer). If you talk to him about this, you should always reference to the books. Ask him where he reads that 5-foot steps provoke attacks of opportunity and the such. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions This page of the SRD (it's in the players handbook combat section as well) shows what provokes AoO's and what doesn't. It's really hard to argue your way around that. Regardless... the DM has the power of rule 0, so he can change any aspect of the game the way he wants, but that doesn't mean you're forced to play it.
Wight_Chocolate 12-04-07, 04:06 AM	I'd suggest stop trying to tell him how to run his game. That's putting it in a very negative light. There's a difference between "telling someone how to run their game" in the way that you seem to mean and "telling someone how to improve their DMing". Given that this is the Player forum and not the DM forum, I'm sure everyone's quite aware that the DM is occasionally at fault. Yes, strictly speaking, it is "their game" and they can run it however they please, but sometimes they just do some really stupid things that they'd be much better off not doing. If you advise a DM that he shouldn't do those things and subsequently explain why then, while you are "telling him how to run the game" in a manner of speaking, you're doing so in a constructive and helpful manner, in an attempt to help him make his games more enjoyable. And I think we can all agree that every DM should want to make their games enjoyable. It is, of course, entirely possible to go the other way about this and simply be bossy and disruptive ("You should give out more loot", "You should use more non-core monsters", "Forgotten Realms is better than Eberron, you should use that setting", blah blah blah) and that is a situation you should try to avoid. However, as long as you don't do so in game, there's nothing wrong with trying to help a DM improve their technique. We all have room for improvement, and they are always free to take or leave your advice as they see fit. As a DM myself, I'd certainly appreciate it if my players came to me with suggestions every now and then, even if I didn't necessarily agree with them. If you never listen to anyone and never try to build upon your technique, you're just going to stagnate in the pond of mediocrity.
IceFractal 12-04-07, 04:34 AM	Honestly, it seems like not going by the rules is the least of your problems - the DM is power-tripping, and it wouldn't be much better if he was doing it by the rules. Now why is he doing it? Could be several reasons: A) He's trying to run a "DM vs PCs" style game and doing it badly. B) He's uncertain of himself and trying to keep control. C) He thinks people like that style of game. D) He's a jerk. But in any case, I think you need to at least tell him that you don't like this style of game, and then you may find which category he fits into. First off though, make sure the other players also dislike being arbitrarily pwned. If so, you can tell him as a group, that you don't like everything being stacked in the enemies' favor. If they actually like his style, you might want to find a different game. Now assuming he isn't a jerk, and he starts playing remotely fair, then you can cue him in on the rules; just mention after the game that you were looking at the rules for ___, and it turns out they actually work differently than he'd been using. Don't stress every rule, just important ones like "missing does not provoke AoOs" and "not every hit is a disabilitating injury". Now if he is a jerk, and continues to cheat in the foes' favor despite the group being against it, that's the time to stage a coup d'etat and take over DMing (or in less dramatic terms, start your own game and bring the other players with you).
Phrennzy 12-04-07, 10:18 AM	Talk to him. Tell him the one thing you don't like about the game. Pick ONE thing and go from there. And then, more importantly, list the things you LOVE about the game.
mato_hibiki 12-04-07, 11:17 AM	I'm going with 'don't be a jerk about it' on this one. Why? Simple. If you tick the DM off, he's just going to make your ingame life hell. Getting angry is ok, on the other hand. Feel free to yell out at one point 'why the hell is everyone on the planet ten times better than me? Am I a HERO or a librarian?!' while getting thrashed for the umpteenth time. If that doesn't do you any good... Well, take a weekend off to dissect the rules with your DM?
pres_man 12-04-07, 11:49 AM	You have discussed the issue reasonably with him out of game and cited page numbers and such? He continues to nerf the party while overpowering the NPCs. At this point you have done all you can. You either have to suck it up and deal, I would suggest becoming party buffer and stop interacting with the NPCs at all if possible, or you have to drop this game. Life is too short to game with morons.
Etarnon 12-04-07, 12:09 PM	If you advise a DM that he shouldn't do those things and subsequently explain why then, while you are "telling him how to run the game" in a manner of speaking, you're doing so in a constructive and helpful manner, in an attempt to help him make his games more enjoyable. And I think we can all agree that every DM should want to make their games enjoyable. The converse is true. "DM, you need to allow my [insert twinked BS character concept from splat book here] because it will make your game better. Change the rules to suit me." Star wars force powers in star trek. Full body rebuild in Cyberpuink for zero cost. Ignore restrictions on carried gold chart by level. Ignore the weight of coins, gold and weapons. Ignore encumbrance entirely. Ignore morale for friendly NPCs, but enforce it for hostile NPCS. Ignore overheat and shutdown rules in Battletech, because it "Suxxors to not be able to do anything during my turn." All shot down as unwanted "Suggestions" to "improve play." If I'm "A Mediocre DM", because my experience and game setting says no to something that doesn't fit my game, players that think so can leave me in my mediocrity, and vacate their slot in the campaign, because there's an informal waiting list for seats at my table, for 2 to 3 people at any one time. Help in the form of unasked for advice is okay once. But when the player is continually popping up with suggestions re:rules (typically, but not always because he wants more personal power for ihs specific character), I tell him, "Run your own game, your way. Anyone here is free to join. Good luck." Don't tell the DM how to run his own game, file a complaint or a request for a rules revision, if you must. Generally, vote with your feet.
Vharuck 12-04-07, 01:12 PM	Talk to him. Tell him the one thing you don't like about the game. Pick ONE thing and go from there. And then, more importantly, list the things you LOVE about the game. Phrennzy, I love you for always bringing up this simple yet universal suggestion that nearly always works. When talking to the DM (with the rest of the players, mind you), do not be accusatory. Simply say that you don't enjoy the rules the game's played by. Make sure he knows that the players would rather use the Core official rules. And if discussing it civilly doesn't work, then I doubt anything you could do would change his mind.
Wight_Chocolate 12-04-07, 01:49 PM	The converse is true. Yes, I know. It is, of course, entirely possible to go the other way about this and simply be bossy and disruptive ("You should give out more loot", "You should use more non-core monsters", "Forgotten Realms is better than Eberron, you should use that setting", blah blah blah) and that is a situation you should try to avoid. Apparently you didn't read that part, or really pay much attention to what my post was trying to get across at all. Again, there's a difference between trying to make the game itself better and trying to get the rules changed so that your character will be more powerful.
pres_man 12-04-07, 02:13 PM	If I'm "A Mediocre DM", because my experience and game setting says no to something that doesn't fit my game, players that think so can leave me in my mediocrity, and vacate their slot in the campaign, because there's an informal waiting list for seats at my table, for 2 to 3 people at any one time. Help in the form of unasked for advice is okay once. But when the player is continually popping up with suggestions re:rules (typically, but not always because he wants more personal power for ihs specific character), I tell him, "Run your own game, your way. Anyone here is free to join. Good luck." Don't tell the DM how to run his own game, file a complaint or a request for a rules revision, if you must. Generally, vote with your feet. Discussing different houserules for various power levels is one thing. A DM claiming that they are playing the game by the book and are incorrect is another, and they should be repeatedly pointed out when they are wrong. If the DM wants to use houserules, that is fine, but they shouldn't try to claim the houserules are the RAW just because the DM is illiterate.
StevenO 12-04-07, 02:44 PM	If the party has enough players you could see if you could change roles and become your DM's rule assistant. By this I mean see if he will let you help run things so that they work as the rules intend, let him keep the creative parts but ask him to let you turn his creative into reality. Those Guards casting spells in full plate sure sound like high level Spellswords or Warmages and should be given stats as such. Once you get them written up to the level they work as the DM desires you may want to point out how their level compares with the players to show how "fair" the encounter actually is.
Man in the Funny Hat 12-04-07, 03:01 PM	Life is too short to game with morons.Too true. But for many, a bad day gaming is the ONLY day of gaming they can get. The first, best option of talking to the DM has been tried and failed. The second most suggested option of voting with your feet has also been ruled out - the OP has decided to stick it out. And apparantly simply smiling, biting the tongue, and making the most of it is gong to be insufficient. The OP still wants to see improvement in the game rather than merely suffer through it and hence the purpose of the thread. So that still leaves him with the problem of how to get the DM, a friend, to run a better, more enjoyable game. I say that you need to have ANOTHER out of game conversation with him. Clearly you are not enjoying the game. The DM needs to be TOLD that as well as your reasons why. This can be done in a matter-of-fact, non-accusatory way: "Bob, I'm not enjoying the game as much as I'd like to. Maybe it's just me but I used to enjoy your game a lot more in the old days. Maybe because back then I didn't know any different but now, having read the rules and run games as a DM for several years I have different perspectives. You may not think so but a LOT of what you're doing is NOT by-the-book. A certain amount of that is fine, even necessary or desirable, but this seems to be excessive, arbitrary, and that's what's bothering me most. Maybe we could talk some about specific rules and what your general "philosophy" or approach is about DMing." Start there. If/when that fails to produce results you really have only two options left. Leave, or tolerate it as long as you can building resentment and suppressed rage until you're about to go postal... and THEN leave.
PhaedrusXY 12-04-07, 03:09 PM	Basically i try to do as little rolling with my character as possible. status buffs, summons and save vs death are my plan of action. And usually its just invisability and summon monster __. who goes off and quadcrits the BBEG and then cuts his own head off.This is one of the funniest things I've ever read on this board. :D I'm in a campaign right now where the DM uses critical fumble rules, and it makes me glad that I'm playing a psion. :P Other than that, this DM is pretty good, though, and I have fun in his game.
KillerVole 12-04-07, 06:36 PM	Hey everyone. OK, a little more info. First, I do run a campaign, and he is a player in it. He is continually surprised that my quest is not very lethal, and has complained about the low PC death rate. I really think he's running this quest for the story. Part of my problem is that I was asked to help with the rules. When I do, he cites some made-up rule that makes little or no sense. I honestly think he believes he is running things by the rules, it's just that... Well, we both played a LARP system a few years back. It was all about crippling blows, 1/minute spells, and the like. It was balanced enough for what it was. The problem is, he's porting all the rules into D&D, and they just don't work. His old campaign was very much the same, I just didn't know better at the time. He is good at story, and roleplaying, but he definitely is trying to run a DM vs. PC game. The issue is, most of the players have never played in something of the sort before. I am not a fan of adversarial DMing, but I can deal with it. I just like consistency. His most annoying tendency, and the one that I really want to change, is his penchant for TPKs followed by "magic resets". If more than one PC dies in any given segment, usually due to arbitrary baddies, he will find an excuse to TPK the rest of us. Then, he'll reset the game to right before the disaster. An example: we screwed up a stealth run, due to a confusing description. We're stuck, in a hall, and only two PCs are left. Me and the paladin. I open a door, and we are both instantly killed by arrows of arbitrariness. No rolls. No save. Just death. Worse, I had shield and protection from arrows cast (I play a cautious type of wizard). When I pointed this out, he said, "Oh, then there were fireballs, too." Then, we were whisked back to the start of the dungeon, and admonished to do better next time. He often threatens us with level loss, but it never really seems to materialize. On the other hand, if one PC is unfortunate enough to die when on their own, their replacement becomes level one. It wasn't an issue when we were all level three, but if it happens now, it will be... problematic. If the TPK thing just stopped, I could grin and bear it, and ignore the railroading. As it is, I cringe at every combat. I have tried talking about this with him. He is always pleasant and cheerful, and readily admits his mistakes, promising to correct them (the big one was being attacked by people riding floating disks) but the corrections never materialize. This is why it's so tricky. He keeps claiming to have reviewed the rules, and says he has everything "by the book" now, but he really doesn't. Also, as to casters in armor, the universal response is: "It's custom. You won't find it in the books."
PhaedrusXY 12-04-07, 06:40 PM	In 20 years of playing D&D, and 5 years of regularly frequenting this message board, that sounds like one of the worst DMs/games I've ever heard of.
Drohem 12-04-07, 06:44 PM	Wow...even if he was my friend, I would say that we have a conflict of styles and not play in his games anymore. Automatic death at opening a door? Retro-active fireballs once you are immune to arrows? re-setting senario and lives? WTF? seriously. However, to each is own. If you enjoy this type of game, then more power to you. Nevertheless, this is not my concept of roleplaying, campaign continuity, or suspended disbelief.
pres_man 12-04-07, 06:48 PM	Another option is just to stop allowing him to cheat when it comes to you. PC: I cast a spell all the way over here where nobody can reach me. DM: You draw an AoO from the wizard on the other side of the room, he fires a fireball at you, you take 26 points of damage. PC: *rolls for concentration but doesn't even bother to look at the roll, also doesn't bother writing down damage* I make my concentration and cast my spell. DM: How did you make the concentration check and that was enough damage to kill you. PC: Sorry, you are mistaken, it wasn't that much and I easily made my concentration check for the AoO. DM: You are cheating! PC: No, I am playing as you indicated was appropriate.
KillerVole 12-04-07, 06:50 PM	I guess I've been dwelling on the negatives. The good part is, when things are rolling well, they really work. When we're not in combat, it's one of the best games I've ever played. All the players stay in-character, and the roleplaying part goes really well. It's just the rules-based situations that get icky. The suspension of disbelief thing is the biggie for me. I hate being saved by DM fiat. My first experiences ever with D&D were with a railroader (to be fair, they were his first experiences too, he's now a great DM), who always saved us. If there's no risk, I loose interest.
Duvanok 12-04-07, 08:58 PM	A DM who has no concept of how the game mechanics work has no business calling things broken or altering the game with ridiculous house rules. I feel for you, man. It's strange, nothing gets me more angry than DMs who pull this kind of crap. But. . . nothing is more entertaining to me than hearing about crazy DMs and their crazy sessions. I just love it.
pres_man 12-04-07, 09:48 PM	I guess I've been dwelling on the negatives. The good part is, when things are rolling well, they really work. When we're not in combat, it's one of the best games I've ever played. All the players stay in-character, and the roleplaying part goes really well. It's just the rules-based situations that get icky. The suspension of disbelief thing is the biggie for me. I hate being saved by DM fiat. My first experiences ever with D&D were with a railroader (to be fair, they were his first experiences too, he's now a great DM), who always saved us. If there's no risk, I loose interest. Next time that happens, just tear up your character sheet and start rolling up a new character.
Etarnon 12-04-07, 11:18 PM	Another option is just to stop allowing him to cheat when it comes to you. PC: I cast a spell all the way over here where nobody can reach me. DM: You draw an AoO from the wizard on the other side of the room, he fires a fireball at you, you take 26 points of damage. PC: *rolls for concentration but doesn't even bother to look at the roll, also doesn't bother writing down damage* I make my concentration and cast my spell. DM: How did you make the concentration check and that was enough damage to kill you. PC: Sorry, you are mistaken, it wasn't that much and I easily made my concentration check for the AoO. DM: You are cheating! PC: No, I am playing as you indicated was appropriate. I revise my stance. After the "New info" by the OP...This seems like well, to me a game I couldn't play in, after the first session of seeing it. Yup, exactly, pres_man. For the Win, of course.
Ayra 12-05-07, 03:25 AM	What do the other players think? I take back what I said before: If he won't listen outside of the game, confront him with his mistakes inside the game. Simply tell him that you're enjoying the roleplaying aspect, but that combat the way he plays it, is just not your thing. If the rest of the party agrees, he'll be forced to change the rules or simply have everyone lose interest in his game. Also directly confront him with what he's doing, he can't just kill you! Tell him you've worked a lot on your character and every time it dies due to a railroad and gets "reset" again, the character loses value to you. When he tries to kill you off like that again, tell him that it just doesn't work that way and if he wants to rule 0 it, he can play the game alone. Every time he lets someone reroll a level 1 character, directly point out the differences in strength. A level 5 fighter has 10 + 4d10 + 5xCON hitpoints. With 14 con (which is low for a fighter), he'd have an average of 40 hitpoints at level 5. If that fighter dies and has to reroll, he'll have 12 hitpoints. How is he supposed to play the tank that way? The same goes for any other classes, they just aren't strong enough to even contribute a little bit to the encounters you may be getting at that level. tl;dr version: Every time he does something wrong, tell him in the game if he doesn't listen outside of the game. Directly confront him with it, point out the rule in the book. Make sure that the other players want to play according to the rules as well.
Arlen 12-05-07, 04:05 AM	I have tried talking about this with him. He is always pleasant and cheerful, and readily admits his mistakes, promising to correct them. Every time I read this phrase, this thread doesn't add up. Two things pop up in my mind: either he's truly honest and is ignorant/forgetful of the rules(which sounds unlikely), or he's just blowing you off(which is equally unlikely if you're both good friends). huff... there are certainly ways of showing he's wrong (for example, you could highlight the "5foot step does not provoke an AoO" quote in the manual and place a tab there for easy reference), but most methods of showing a person wrong is the wrong way of going about it and just ticks them off. So let's ad hoc a method, shall we? :D You've talked to your friend before about this, so he'll probably be slightly annoyed that you're bringing up old news. After bringing it up, the first question you should ask him is, "you know, why do you think I keep bringing this up?" (do it as an inquiry, not insinuating). It will most likely catch him off guard, and him responding "I don't know, why DO you keep bringing it up?". Prod him a bit more by responding with " 'Cmon you're my friend. Why would I bring it up?" (again, as an inquiry. Have a slight tone of sadness, if appropriate. Don't BS it though; you should truly be saddened that your first DM is somewhat off-kilter). You should eventually get an interesting answer to this question which should be the start of a long conversation between the two of you.
KillerVole 12-05-07, 07:33 PM	The other players don't really seem to mind this as much as I do. Two are fairly new, one is pretty much an observer, and one is by far the most powerful character in the group (pure melee smash build), and thus doesn't have as many combat problems. The other, my brother, has complained, he was the one reduced to level one. I chatted with the DM about the level thing, but on that issue he refuses to budge, no matter the argument. I think, for some reason, he can't keep the rules of D&D, the LARP we used to play, and World of Warcraft straight in his head. Parts of all three sneak in. I've thought some more, and I'm beginning to suspect that he could have an issue with his memory, to some degree. It would explain everything getting muddled. Also, he does extensive prep work, but has forgotten to bring it to all but two sessions. I know it exists; Last session he showed us the prep for the entire early quest... I think I'll approach things subtly, and see what changes. He asks for critiques, and usually everyone tells him, good story, good roleplaying, a little iffy with the rules and spells, and he promises to read them. I think, maybe, he hasn't discovered the extended descriptions in the back of the PHB, as he seemed surprised to learn of some restrictions. I have all my spells copied from the SRD, and he took the copy home last time to study them, so things should improve. I guess I just really needed to rant a little. Thanks for all the ideas! I'm going to have a talk with him about the rules, and try to figure out where he's going. He's never really had much skill with math, maybe he just really can't understand game balance. Again, thanks for the help.
Ace_of_time 12-06-07, 01:18 AM	You could just talk to him out side the gaming table. Make A list or just tell him what you see and have a problem with. Bring some books along and show him a few rules he uses that are not what they should be. You will know after you talk to him if you need to go back to the group. A good DM doesn't mind helpful hints to help the game run smoother. But UNLIKE MOST POSTERs ON HERE SAY leaving the group should be the last option made not the first one.
KillerVole 12-06-07, 10:11 PM	Hey everyone! Thanks for the help. Apparently the DM finally did some research, and, moreover, we've moved out of the "wimpy grunts" part of his campaign, to the more heroic stuff. He's stopped the debilitating hits; he still lets people stun each other a bit easily, but it's a full round action and a successful attack to stun your opponent for one round. It's an odd house rule, which he should have explained before, but I can deal with it. He's promised to stop the TPK thing, and seems to be putting more effort into balancing encounters. We've discovered that the superguards are incredibly glass jawed (AC25, but about 15 HP), which makes previous encounters seem more fair. He still lets them cast while armored, but I guess no one's perfect. Anyway, we've just decided to appropriate some of that armor next time we kill them. He's dropped the odd World of Warcraft and LARP rules completely. Everything suddenly changed, and the quest is now fun and exciting. A happy ending for everyone. Thanks for all your help!
Ace_of_time 12-07-07, 09:10 PM	You can cast while armored. Just FYI. If they are arcana they would have to roll for spell failure but could still cast. Unless he is not rolling that and just letting them cast.
KillerVole 12-07-07, 11:16 PM	Unless he is not rolling that and just letting them cast. Exactly what's happening. Sorry I didn't make that clearer.
Kernath 12-08-07, 02:27 PM	A quick aside for what it's worth: a Battle Sorcerer (UA variant) with the Battle Caster feat could toss fireballs in mithral full plate without any ASF. Personally, that's one of my favorite builds for a BBEG's lieutenant (though a whole army of them is a bit over the top).
Ace_of_time 12-08-07, 04:46 PM	Just get one of those dog collars for him. Then when he crosses the line again.:gah: :twitch: Problem solved.