Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ElvenEnigma 07-23-04, 06:07 PM	Hello, last session our party was in for a suprise when we came home. My wizard's two towers had their roofs tore off and some of the stone was melded together (acid) and her pegasus was nowhere to be found. However, after my DM asked me it's fly speed (120 ft) and he said "not fast enough" I kinda guessed what had happened:( All that she found when searching the ruins of the second floors were black dragon scales. I know I kinda of deserve this loss for not having any defenses around her property, but I just never got around to coming up with any ideas. The reason I've started this thread though is for people to share/contribute their ideas on how to defend your stronghold from random attacks. Granted you can't defend against everything, but it would still be nice to know that you hurt/irritated whoever destroyed your house. I've taken a look at the permanency spell, but that doesn't seem to help much due to the XP cost. It would be cheaper to make a wondrous item (she has the feat) with multiple spells in it than to use permanency, not to mention it wouldn't be able to be dispelled. So....I was just curious, does anyone out there have any ideas on how they would or how they defend their stronghold? If it helps, my wizard is level 13 and focuses heavily on transmutation and enchantment spells. Currently she has 150 gold....but I'm sure I could get some other party members to loan me gold. I'd really appreciate any input on this.....thank you. Peace
FitzNighteyes 07-23-04, 06:58 PM	Well for starters, try and recruit the dragon that did it in the first place! Or figure out a way to force it to work for you. Assuming you aren't being led astray in some fashion. Not sure what could immitate a dragon attack (besides a sneaky dragon of another colour). (By the way, I like the title to this thread :thumbsup: )
ElvenEnigma 07-23-04, 07:33 PM	Our characters are clueless as to why a dragon would attack us...well, at least a black one....we kinda did steal a green one's entire hoard...whoopsies...Anyway, currently my character's goal is to slay the dragon that did this to her (she was VERY fond of that pegasus....even had a name *sigh*). It's kind of funny/sad...she spent so much money on that thing and...yeah. Word of advice to other players out there...if you're going to spend over 2k on some animal....find a way to protect the stupid thing;). Peace
TheSilentF 07-23-04, 07:35 PM	Hmmm... you can try this. When i had my stronghold before i sold it, i payed a mage to sit in my tower and cast a spell (forget the name; but from second edition) that made an illusion of a targets worst nightmere. So say a black dragon was attacking. This mage would cast this spell, and all of the sudden three Great Wyrms each of gold color were flying around the top of my castle, so hopefully w/e was attack me got sacred away before they could attack.
ElvenEnigma 07-23-04, 07:45 PM	Thanks for the idea TheSilentF......however, while illusion is nice...any smart dragon would wonder why in the world are three (rare) great gold wyrms taking interest in me and flying around my tower. Dragon: "Hmm...I wonder what happens if I hit one of those guys with a magic missile....oh hey, look it went right through them." I was thinking of having an item surround my entire house in a cube of force....but I'd probably have to craft an item and that would most likely be hella expensive for a continuous effect. Anyone else have other ideas? I just recently thought about using Shrink Item on the two towers so that they would fall into two holes that would then close themselves. But that sounds like something out of a cartoon.....not to mention it'd probably squish everything inside them (like my familiar....who luckily was with me at the time of the attack:D). Thanks for all the replies, keep 'em coming...and yes, I am rather fond of the title of this thread myself FitzNighteyes Peace
TheSilentF 07-23-04, 07:50 PM	Well, after the illusionist failed me, I cast got a mage to enchant me castle so to people eyes it looked like some really small poor famers house, but when you walked though the door, it was like my caslte inside. Try that if you have the money.
Kaminton 07-23-04, 07:52 PM	Check out the stronghold builder's guidebook for ideas. Some suggestions, in order of importance: 1. If you're powerful enough, consider hallucinatory terrain or mirage arcana to hide your tower from view. 2. Guards. If you can afford to build a stronghold, you can afford a staff. Just make sure that some of that staff consists of guards of some sort. 3. Alarms. Something that alerts you and/or the inhabitants of the stronghold of the presence of intruders. This could be as simple as the alarm spell. These are a start. Everything else depends on how much gold you want to spend and what kind of threats you're expecting. I'm afraid there's no much you can do against random dragon attacks; however, note that the mirage arcana will save is only triggered if the illusion is interacted with. If you just erase the tower from view, then the only way the dragon will notice it is if it flies into it by accident...
TheSilentF 07-23-04, 07:57 PM	Plus, i dont know how good you DM is, but to just come home and have your tower melted by a black dragon who had no reason to attack you is absurd. Unless it was in a rage or under mind influence by one of your enemies, or knew the green dragon that you stole from, black dragons wouldnt just attack a castle unprovoked...
ElvenEnigma 07-23-04, 07:57 PM	Thanks everyone for the replies. I was considering mirage arcana, however her towers have been in the town for a long time. At least 2 years....it's almost like a tourist attraction for the town. House.....house......house....TOWERS.... house.....house. hah. Well, her property is a little off by itself, but it's still within the town. So the illusion trick is pretty much out of the question...unless somehow I could make it to where only people with hostile intent couldn't find the towers. I was considering hiring guards, but I didn't know how much they would cost. I will have to get the Stronghold Builder's Guide from my friend though. Thanks for those ideas though Kaminton. Guards and the alarm spell...gotcha. Any more ideas? Thanks a bunch everyone, keep 'em comin'. Peace
ElvenEnigma 07-23-04, 08:00 PM	My DM is a good one.....and I honestly don't know why a black dragon did this to us, ha. That's what Alia is going to find out thanks to Discern Location. Our party is going to wait awhile (dumb I know, but the fighters just have to get better armor) and then go out and find out why this dragon did this to us. And you can bet that I'm going to get my revenge...it was an innoncent pegasus:(...I'm kind of glad our DM did this to us though because until now we haven't had any attacks on our residences. This opened my eyes to how vulnerable we really are. Peace
TheSilentF 07-23-04, 08:06 PM	Are you a high enough level to defeat a dragon? Cause if you are, when i split off from my party to go adventure on my own, my cleric gave me a ring that allowed me to have him instantly teleported to my side whenever i wanted him. If he doesnt want to go then he has to make a Will save of something, i dont remember, or be teleported against his will. I suggest you give on of these to one of your close friends who lives in the tower all the time (or at least someone who is high in command at your towers) so when he/she sees danger approaching they can just teleport you to the tower and you can defend it yourself (better to go down in glory while defending your castle than to die at the hands of an assasing... as my monk told me before i was killed in his sleep by an assasin... talk about ironic...)
ElvenEnigma 07-23-04, 08:12 PM	Ooooooo......good idea. I like. Do you know where I can find this ring? I remember reading about it somewhere....thanks, that is a very good idea. If Alia is prepared I believe she would stand a fair chance against a dragon. Well, as long as a dragon didn't use Anti-magic field:(. That's when I would cry. That's the best/most cheapest idea I've heard yet....thanks...any more?:D Peace
ElvenEnigma 07-23-04, 08:17 PM	Nevermind, I found what it's called. It's the Bracelet of Friends..and only 19,000....not too shabby. Shucks, it requires you to be 15th level and have the spell refuge:( Thanks for that idea, keep 'em comin':D Peace.
TheSilentF 07-23-04, 08:17 PM	Hmmm... come to think of it i dont remember where it is, i just looked over the ring sections and it was there. But i know for a fact that i saw it somewhere. And i didnt bother do write it down on my character sheet (I knew that would get back at me). I guess youll just have to look through all the magic items in the back of the DMG, im really sorry, if it will make things faster ill look also!:(
ElvenEnigma 07-23-04, 08:21 PM	Thanks for the concern TheSilentF...but I did find it.....and of course I'm two levels shy of being able to craft it *sigh*:( And I know my party will not want to dish out 19k...they barely wanted to shell out the amount for the cost of having someone cast Discern Location for us:(...does anyone have an idea on how to make an item similar to the Bracelet of Friends that involves a lower level spell? Peace
TheSilentF 07-23-04, 08:25 PM	Well, if we played in the same campeign i would give you mine cause i doubt ill end up using. The only way i can think of of getting is to steal it... You gotta good rogue in your party? And if you raided a dragons lair, you should have more than enough money to buy things:confused:
ElvenEnigma 07-23-04, 08:35 PM	hah, thank you. Believe me, I wish some of my party members were as caring as you. So..yeah, unless someone can think of a price/item that can duplicate the effects of the Bracelet of Friends I can't really use that idea:(. Does anyone have an estimate on how much it would cost to have an item that covered an entire building with a wall of force? I'm guessing somewhere in the ballpark of 81,000 for an item that functions upon command, but that's probably not right. Or perhaps I should just train an elite army of pegasi, give them levels in sorceror or something crazy. Yeah, that's the way to go....heh:D. Peace
Vanigo 07-23-04, 09:42 PM	Actually, the SBG has rules for making a building out of nothing but walls of force. And for making buildings covered by walls of force. Or prismatic walls. Not to mention other stronghold-related things, like defensive magical architecture (complete with price break for being immobile), making flying strongholds, pricing rules, suggestions for attacking and defending strongholds, and a few other odds and ends. You might want to take this over to the Tools of the Trade board, we do this kind of thing a lot over there.
ElvenEnigma 07-24-04, 01:11 AM	Okay, thanks Vanigo for the reply......I wasn't even aware there was a board like that, heh. I'll post the original questions there and see what happens.....however, like I've said many times:D...any suggestions people have besides those that have been mentioned are more than welcomed. (the next session is this coming Sunday:confused: ) Peace
Dragonspirit 07-24-04, 06:51 AM	A dragon ate my pegasus! I absolutely HATE when that happens. It will ruin your whole day! That is so wrong! Do you have any idea how tough pegasi meat is? Poor dragon probably got indigestion from it that night. As for advise, really, this seems like a plot hook and not somethign defensible. I recently destroyed one of my character's strongholds for plot development. Everything that is not your character is fair game - including cohorts, familiars, castles, or grandma's potato salad recipie. That's how it goes - wealth comes, wealth goes... it's the story that counts.
Morka 07-24-04, 09:46 AM	What does it take to a Green Dragon to hunt and kill a younger Black Dragon, collect his scales, then attack the tower of the mage who just stole his hoard, ate her pegasus, and let some carefully collected Black Dragon scales just to divert the suspicions? Remember: both are spitting acid! Wait, more tricky yet: the Black and the Green ones are archennemies. During some battle, the Green one collected some Black Scales. Now, after some quarrel with some adventurers, the intelligent Green Dragon imagine a plan to have his two worst ennemies fight together! And all he has to do is ate a succulent pegasus! Miam!
ElvenEnigma 07-24-04, 12:43 PM	ha, yeah, it's very possible that the green dragon found out who was actually behind the theft (we framed a rival adventuring party and a Dragonslayer secret society:D). I just need ideas to prepare against further random attacks so that when I rebuild (maybe get a new pegasus:sad: ) I can be at peace when I leave my home to adventure. That poor wittle pegasus...never even had a chance:( ha. Also I do believe this was a plot hook (cuz now my character wants to find out who killed her precious Eos (pegasus' name) I'm going to have her use Contact Other Plane so she can ask Boccob if her pegasus is dead.....hopefully she won't get the response of "dwarves" again to one of her questions, ha. If only there was a spell that made dieties say more than one word... Peace
TheSilentF 07-24-04, 12:48 PM	Deities say more than one word, just go to where they live and ask them yourself... And why dont you just use a true ressurectiong on your pegasus?
ElvenEnigma 07-24-04, 12:57 PM	Hello again TheSilentF I would like to use True Resurrection....but that would mean an additional +25k that my party members won't loan me. As for plane shifting, I recently got the spell, but in this campaign planar travel is heavily restricted. So far I think the alarm spell is my best option. Craft an item that wards all of my property with an alarm spell and keep a scroll of teleport handy at all times. The only problem I can see with this option is how to prevent the alarm from going off when a bird flies into a window or something.:confused:
TheSilentF 07-24-04, 01:03 PM	lol... You dont seem to have a lot of money, or a lot of valuable things. Is troubling over the loss of your tower really all that important? I say you just buy a portable hole or something and keep all your junk in there unless you have the money to pay for the sufficiant security.
ElvenEnigma 07-24-04, 01:23 PM	No, not lately. She just blew 30k on crafting personalized wondrous items for the other party members (they were gifts for a holiday similar to Xmas and she had just learned how to do it (gained a level, took Craft Wondrous Item). I imagine I could use the guilt trip/sad puppy face to get the party sorceror (who has 90k I believe...stupid sorcerors..) to lend me some money for defense. Especially if I could duplicate the item for his house (which also got attacked) and the smoking crater that used to be our shop*sigh*. Does anyone know how much an item that could generate a protective ward like the alarm spell cost? Both of her towers are 200 ft. tall and 110 ft wide at the base. There are two walls surrounding them that are shaped like two crescent moons joined. Those walls are 600 ft. long each and 20 ft. high. Finally, there are two gates at each side of her "estate" 100 ft. long and 20 ft. high. I would attempt doing the math in order to get a price....but I'm afraid my head would explode:twitch: Peace
TheSilentF 07-24-04, 01:31 PM	What level is your party?
ElvenEnigma 07-24-04, 01:35 PM	I'm level 13....the sorceror is also level 13 (close to leveling though). The rogue is 14 and the fighter/cleric just leveled up to 14. Oh, and the 90k was an exaggeration. He has somewhere between 70k-90k.
TheSilentF 07-24-04, 01:39 PM	Why dont you just ask you rogue to go on a stealing spree for you? Hes deffinently high enough level.
ElvenEnigma 07-24-04, 01:49 PM	I haven't considered that option...I'll have to ask him. Our party is all neutral, so it's not out of the question....it'll have to wait after the "dragonhunt" though. I really wish I had the Stronghold Builder's guide to look at the price of a continuous alarm effect.:(
Evandar_TAybara 07-24-04, 06:02 PM	I find it strange that people think that it was strange for the dragon to attack the tower. I mean, if it's considered normal behaviour for a bunch of "good" characters to attack people's homes, kill all the occupants and steal all the valubles within, then why is it hard to believe a evil dragon won't do the same? Evan.
ElvenEnigma 07-24-04, 06:32 PM	It's really not that strange that some powerful creature finally attacked our defenseless abodes...especially since we've ****** off countless powerful beings. Oh well, we do have one powerful ally. A local tavern owner who sometimes let us have drinks for free:D. Anyway, I've come up with the following meager defenses in an attempt to hamper anyone trying to do her harm. What do you think of these? All the items could only function once a day, but I think that'd be enough in some cases. At the two gates to her property I will have set programmed images to pop up warning/advising people to leave or enter at their own risk. Item that casts Baleful Polymorph upon first person entering doorway on the first floor in tower one. Item that casts Dominate Person upon first person entering doorway on the first floor in tower two. Item that casts Disintegrate upon first person entering the room on the second floor in tower one. Item that casts Flesh to Stone on first person entering the room on the second floor in tower two. And I think it will be cheapest to just craft 4 items that function as stones of alarm except they contact me wherever I am. What do you think of these defenses? Granted they won't stop a determined group, but they will at least hamper them significantly. Peace
Vaelan 07-25-04, 05:11 AM	TheSilentF, I find it humorous that you comment on appropriate character wealth when, according to one of your posts on your topic: The Sun Blade, you state that your 13 Rogue has more money(not including magic items) than the total expected wealth(magic items AND money combined) of a level 20 character... Anyway, to respond to the topic at hand: Brutally murder everyone you may have made an enemy of. If you kill the being that attacked your property, no need to worry about it. If not, it will be a clear indication that attacking your property will NOT be tolerated. It's also a nice excuse to get rid of possible enemies.
Kaminton 07-25-04, 06:37 PM	Since you need to rebuild the tower anyway... Use mirage arcana to make the old tower look like new, while you build your real tower some distance away, using mirage arcana to make it look like it's not there :) Then the next random attacker can attack your old, beat-up tower, while your new ones survives unscathed... Oh, and the SBG has a landlord feat in it, which provides the wealth required to build the stronghold (that scales with your level). At level 13, you'd have 150,000 gp to play with, and if you used your own money in addition to this, it gets matched. Which means you can load up your tower with pretty stuff, like enhancements to the walls (like the previously mentioned walls of force).
ElvenEnigma 07-25-04, 07:09 PM	Oooooo....good idea Kaminton. I actually might consider that. We just had a session today. The dragon ended up coming back to try and finish the job (when I got back I plagued him with constant nightmare spells). After waking up to acid dripping down on us from the ceiling of the tower (we were on the bottom floor) we engaged the fiend. Finally, the dragon teleported away to his lair and now I'm left with more damage to my tower:(. So yeah, after that battle it might be worthwhile to implement your idea Kaminton. I'll just have to decide after I find out how much it will take to repair the towers. It might be better to have one single tower instead of two...hmm....oh, and yes, I finally got to borrow the Stronghold Builder's Guide and it is packed with good ideas. That will have to wait though until we take out this dragon (we're on the way to his lair) when I have enough money to use most of the wondrous architecture. The best thing about crafting wondrous architecture is that you only need Craft Wondrous Item. Craft Wondrous Item is truly the best feat.:D P.S. I hate hotmail:headexplo Peace
DragonsArt 07-27-04, 02:34 PM	Actually, the Pegasus would have flown circles around the dragon, who only has poor maneuverability.... while the pegasus has average.
Kaminton 07-27-04, 05:45 PM	Originally posted by DragonsArt Actually, the Pegasus would have flown circles around the dragon, who only has poor maneuverability.... while the pegasus has average. Only for so long. Then the dragon will use its spells or breath weapon to take down that pegasus... hold monster on a creature that uses wings to fly isn't very pretty.
ElvenEnigma 07-27-04, 09:29 PM	Also the DM later told me the dragon had taken the Wingover feat:(
Elemental 07-28-04, 06:42 PM	Originally posted by ElvenEnigma Oooooo....good idea Kaminton. I actually might consider that. We just had a session today. The dragon ended up coming back to try and finish the job (when I got back I plagued him with constant nightmare spells). After waking up to acid dripping down on us from the ceiling of the tower (we were on the bottom floor) we engaged the fiend. Finally, the dragon teleported away to his lair and now I'm left with more damage to my tower:(. Dimensional Anchor is your friend in these circumstances. Another possibility to prevent property damage would be to put all the sensitive / expensive parts of your stronghold underground, and only put the 'public areas' in the part of it on the surface.
Dell Kallyan 07-30-04, 10:34 AM	I really have to say... that is quite possibly the best thread name I have ever seen! Anyway, after you slay the dragon in his lair you should find enough gold to repair your stronghold and use many of the options availible in the Stronghold Builder's Guide! Just be careful, the dragon will expect you to be coming and probably have set up some sort of ambush.
ElvenEnigma 07-30-04, 04:06 PM	Yes, currently I'm going to add on two more stories, one on each tower, then set up some measly defenses. That Stronghold Builder's Guide is amazing. I highly recommend it to anyone. After taking the Landlord feat (gotta wait two levels:( ) I plan on building around the two towers a bigger keep with the two towers as the inner sanctum. I also plan to eventually enchant one of the towers (or just a small room) so that it will be able to plane shift, fly, sail, crawl, and I think that's it. This will allow my character to boldly go where no woman has gone before....