A few assassin questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

A few assassin questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Psionx
10-31-06, 03:04 PM 1- Can an assassin lay a rock on the ground in the day and that would count as a shadow?
2- Can an rogue be neutral evil, get assassin level 1, then become neutral good afterwards (step to neutral, then to neutral good), and still get levels in assassin?
3- Can a rogue just kill a bugbear/kobold/goblin/orc that happens to be evil and leave its gear and stuff behind to qualify as an assassin class?
4- Can an assassin have psionics instead of spells?
DarkNick
10-31-06, 04:49 PM 1- Can an assassin lay a rock on the ground in the day and that would count as a shadow?
2- Can an rogue be neutral evil, get assassin level 1, then become neutral good afterwards (step to neutral, then to neutral good), and still get levels in assassin?
3- Can a rogue just kill a bugbear/kobold/goblin/orc that happens to be evil and leave its gear and stuff behind to qualify as an assassin class?
4- Can an assassin have psionics instead of spells?

I only have subjective answers :

1 - probably not - unless it is a very big rock. I don't know the rules for it but I assume it would have to be big enough to conceal the character. If you had someone dissapear in plain view, you were on a flat plane with one rock that has a big shadow, where would you look?
2 - I think if you became good you would lose your assassin abilities (spells esp) and can no longer advance. A killer with a heart is no longer a killer. Though many people debate whether you could have an assassin of any alignment, if you go by the rules they need to be evil. If your not evil then you probably won't stoop to using assasssin tecniques like their death attack.
3 - I suspect that to become an assassin you need to be directed by your 'guild' to kill some random person or commit cold blooded murder. Would you let someone enter your assassin guild just because they killed some mangy bugbear? Killing a monster is hardly the same as murdering someone. If this is a consideration then obviously you are not cut out to be an assassin.
4 - if your DM houserules it then why not?
UnrelentingHoror
10-31-06, 05:20 PM 1- Can an assassin lay a rock on the ground in the day and that would count as a shadow?
2- Can an rogue be neutral evil, get assassin level 1, then become neutral good afterwards (step to neutral, then to neutral good), and still get levels in assassin?
3- Can a rogue just kill a bugbear/kobold/goblin/orc that happens to be evil and leave its gear and stuff behind to qualify as an assassin class?
4- Can an assassin have psionics instead of spells?

Well buddy heres my take on it:
1-ummm, probably not, same thoughts as DarkNick.
2-Well thats abit tricky, not necissarily good I would say, the best you would be looking at is neutral unless we are talking about some severe circumstances and even then the type of life changing events that would change a cold blooded killer from evil to good would likely also see the killer retireing and having an aversion to death in general. Also assassin guilds being made up of the types that they are, probably work on a blood in/blood out basis, meaning you killed someone to get in, you don't wanna do your job anymore someone else has to die. Most likely you. But yes you would keep your skills as its simple training rather than divine granted spells like a paladin.
3-Well in my thoughts assassin guilds find you not the other way around, and their only gonna look to recruit either evil people or neutral people with a nasty streak. In the evil person's case they would probably find a target that would test his skills for the kill to get in. In the case of a neutral person with a nasty streak they want in, the target they give will probably require evil acts in a magnitude to switch your alighnement to evil. So some goody goody going out and bringing a severed bugbear head to their door asking to join up is gonna get either laughed out (if hes Reeeaally lucky) or slaughtered.
4-ummm, no I don't think so.

Ultimately this is all up to your DM, these are just my opinions, hes the guy you need to convince.
Toloran
10-31-06, 05:30 PM 1- Can an assassin lay a rock on the ground in the day and that would count as a shadow?
2- Can an rogue be neutral evil, get assassin level 1, then become neutral good afterwards (step to neutral, then to neutral good), and still get levels in assassin?
3- Can a rogue just kill a bugbear/kobold/goblin/orc that happens to be evil and leave its gear and stuff behind to qualify as an assassin class?
4- Can an assassin have psionics instead of spells?

1. By raw, yes. By reality, no. I would personally rule that the shadow has to be big enough to actually conceal you (although you wouldn't have to enter the shadow because of the ability).
2. By raw, all it requires is that you are that alignment when you become that class not that you stay it. Although from a roleplaying perspective, you need to have a good reason for the change. Although, the alignment restriction is silly IMO since you could be an assasin that only kills corrupt/evil individuals.
3. What the requirement means is that you have to be sent on a mission to kill an individual (ie, an assasination). You can't just kill something and say "yeah, I assasinated him."
4. Anything can be home ruled really, but if thats what you want I suggest the Lurk out of Complete Psionics.
Tiefling_Warlock
10-31-06, 05:35 PM 1-Only if it was a bit rock.
2-By RAW you could but you lose a lot of abilities. You could houserule that you can be good though. Ask DM.
3-RAW, yes. But I would say no. It should be directed or assasainy. You gotta stalk 'em.
4- Sure. I'd take his spells, convert to PP, every level 1 spell is 1PP, every 2 is 3, 3-5, and so on. 0=1/2 Then take his spell list. Maybe learn a power a level.

Note: If you take a wizard's spells per day and do this you end up with 343 at level 20.
gorfnad the shiznit
10-31-06, 08:18 PM 4. Psychic Rogue: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b
Pyschic Assassin: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d
Branto
10-31-06, 09:06 PM 1- Can an assassin lay a rock on the ground in the day and that would count as a shadow? Rock would be kind of inefficient. One big enough to cast a decent shadow would be too heavy. A big wooden board (or even a shield) would probably be better.

Why do you ask, anyways? Is it possible to not find a shadow within one turn's moving distance at any given time or place?

2- Can an rogue be neutral evil, get assassin level 1, then become neutral good afterwards (step to neutral, then to neutral good), and still get levels in assassin? As a general rule, I think you always have to currently meet the requirements for a class to take levels for it. Does the description of Assasin specifically state whether you lose any class features if your alignment changes? If not, I assume you'd keep them.. but you still couldn't gain more assasin levels until you go evil again.
Psionx
10-31-06, 11:06 PM for number 1 I was just seeing how small the shadow could be, but your guys answers make sense so I'll go with em.
for number 2 I think that its just training so you should keep it regardless of alignment and I don't like being evil
for number 3 I would prefer not having to kill someone of good alignment who hadn't done anything wrong but I'm willing to let a few things go
for number 4 Psychic assassin is perfect thank you.

Do you really have to join a guild to become an assassin or could you theoretically have an assassin mentor you/read about being an assassin? Or could you just say I'll be a contracted assassin for a few years (getting around the blood in/blood out clause)?

BTW: Thanks to all who replied... :cookie: :cookie:'s and :milk: will be at the back table for any who want them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Psionx 10-31-06, 03:04 PM	1- Can an assassin lay a rock on the ground in the day and that would count as a shadow? 2- Can an rogue be neutral evil, get assassin level 1, then become neutral good afterwards (step to neutral, then to neutral good), and still get levels in assassin? 3- Can a rogue just kill a bugbear/kobold/goblin/orc that happens to be evil and leave its gear and stuff behind to qualify as an assassin class? 4- Can an assassin have psionics instead of spells?
DarkNick 10-31-06, 04:49 PM	1- Can an assassin lay a rock on the ground in the day and that would count as a shadow? 2- Can an rogue be neutral evil, get assassin level 1, then become neutral good afterwards (step to neutral, then to neutral good), and still get levels in assassin? 3- Can a rogue just kill a bugbear/kobold/goblin/orc that happens to be evil and leave its gear and stuff behind to qualify as an assassin class? 4- Can an assassin have psionics instead of spells? I only have subjective answers : 1 - probably not - unless it is a very big rock. I don't know the rules for it but I assume it would have to be big enough to conceal the character. If you had someone dissapear in plain view, you were on a flat plane with one rock that has a big shadow, where would you look? 2 - I think if you became good you would lose your assassin abilities (spells esp) and can no longer advance. A killer with a heart is no longer a killer. Though many people debate whether you could have an assassin of any alignment, if you go by the rules they need to be evil. If your not evil then you probably won't stoop to using assasssin tecniques like their death attack. 3 - I suspect that to become an assassin you need to be directed by your 'guild' to kill some random person or commit cold blooded murder. Would you let someone enter your assassin guild just because they killed some mangy bugbear? Killing a monster is hardly the same as murdering someone. If this is a consideration then obviously you are not cut out to be an assassin. 4 - if your DM houserules it then why not?
UnrelentingHoror 10-31-06, 05:20 PM	1- Can an assassin lay a rock on the ground in the day and that would count as a shadow? 2- Can an rogue be neutral evil, get assassin level 1, then become neutral good afterwards (step to neutral, then to neutral good), and still get levels in assassin? 3- Can a rogue just kill a bugbear/kobold/goblin/orc that happens to be evil and leave its gear and stuff behind to qualify as an assassin class? 4- Can an assassin have psionics instead of spells? Well buddy heres my take on it: 1-ummm, probably not, same thoughts as DarkNick. 2-Well thats abit tricky, not necissarily good I would say, the best you would be looking at is neutral unless we are talking about some severe circumstances and even then the type of life changing events that would change a cold blooded killer from evil to good would likely also see the killer retireing and having an aversion to death in general. Also assassin guilds being made up of the types that they are, probably work on a blood in/blood out basis, meaning you killed someone to get in, you don't wanna do your job anymore someone else has to die. Most likely you. But yes you would keep your skills as its simple training rather than divine granted spells like a paladin. 3-Well in my thoughts assassin guilds find you not the other way around, and their only gonna look to recruit either evil people or neutral people with a nasty streak. In the evil person's case they would probably find a target that would test his skills for the kill to get in. In the case of a neutral person with a nasty streak they want in, the target they give will probably require evil acts in a magnitude to switch your alighnement to evil. So some goody goody going out and bringing a severed bugbear head to their door asking to join up is gonna get either laughed out (if hes Reeeaally lucky) or slaughtered. 4-ummm, no I don't think so. Ultimately this is all up to your DM, these are just my opinions, hes the guy you need to convince.
Toloran 10-31-06, 05:30 PM	1- Can an assassin lay a rock on the ground in the day and that would count as a shadow? 2- Can an rogue be neutral evil, get assassin level 1, then become neutral good afterwards (step to neutral, then to neutral good), and still get levels in assassin? 3- Can a rogue just kill a bugbear/kobold/goblin/orc that happens to be evil and leave its gear and stuff behind to qualify as an assassin class? 4- Can an assassin have psionics instead of spells? 1. By raw, yes. By reality, no. I would personally rule that the shadow has to be big enough to actually conceal you (although you wouldn't have to enter the shadow because of the ability). 2. By raw, all it requires is that you are that alignment when you become that class not that you stay it. Although from a roleplaying perspective, you need to have a good reason for the change. Although, the alignment restriction is silly IMO since you could be an assasin that only kills corrupt/evil individuals. 3. What the requirement means is that you have to be sent on a mission to kill an individual (ie, an assasination). You can't just kill something and say "yeah, I assasinated him." 4. Anything can be home ruled really, but if thats what you want I suggest the Lurk out of Complete Psionics.
Tiefling_Warlock 10-31-06, 05:35 PM	1-Only if it was a bit rock. 2-By RAW you could but you lose a lot of abilities. You could houserule that you can be good though. Ask DM. 3-RAW, yes. But I would say no. It should be directed or assasainy. You gotta stalk 'em. 4- Sure. I'd take his spells, convert to PP, every level 1 spell is 1PP, every 2 is 3, 3-5, and so on. 0=1/2 Then take his spell list. Maybe learn a power a level. Note: If you take a wizard's spells per day and do this you end up with 343 at level 20.
gorfnad the shiznit 10-31-06, 08:18 PM	4. Psychic Rogue: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b Pyschic Assassin: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d
Branto 10-31-06, 09:06 PM	1- Can an assassin lay a rock on the ground in the day and that would count as a shadow? Rock would be kind of inefficient. One big enough to cast a decent shadow would be too heavy. A big wooden board (or even a shield) would probably be better. Why do you ask, anyways? Is it possible to not find a shadow within one turn's moving distance at any given time or place? 2- Can an rogue be neutral evil, get assassin level 1, then become neutral good afterwards (step to neutral, then to neutral good), and still get levels in assassin? As a general rule, I think you always have to currently meet the requirements for a class to take levels for it. Does the description of Assasin specifically state whether you lose any class features if your alignment changes? If not, I assume you'd keep them.. but you still couldn't gain more assasin levels until you go evil again.
Psionx 10-31-06, 11:06 PM	for number 1 I was just seeing how small the shadow could be, but your guys answers make sense so I'll go with em. for number 2 I think that its just training so you should keep it regardless of alignment and I don't like being evil for number 3 I would prefer not having to kill someone of good alignment who hadn't done anything wrong but I'm willing to let a few things go for number 4 Psychic assassin is perfect thank you. Do you really have to join a guild to become an assassin or could you theoretically have an assassin mentor you/read about being an assassin? Or could you just say I'll be a contracted assassin for a few years (getting around the blood in/blood out clause)? BTW: Thanks to all who replied... :cookie: :cookie:'s and :milk: will be at the back table for any who want them.