Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarkDewDrop 10-11-06, 07:10 PM	This is a two part question. First what gives the ninja an advantage against most other classes? I know this sounds stupid asking this after I have looked at other classes and stuff and but I would like a little more of endgame related info. The second is I want to be a compliment to a team made of a ranger two wizards a sorcerer and a monk and an army of 200. I often run recon and I don’t do much besides that and removing a few enemy generals and stealing documents. So is there any other thing I can do for large battles.
Cherubaddon 10-11-06, 09:14 PM	First your advantages: You can gain concealment, use poison very effectively (use it! IT DOES NOT MAKE YOU EVIL! only nongood) become invisible, jump absurd distances and evetually turn ethereal. Sounds rather good for an infiltrator, doesn't it? Besides, you have a good skill selection, so you can become a "true" infiltrator, a scout, a smooth talker, or a mix of all of these. You are more stealthy than many a rogue, and a rather good fighter. Just use invisibility and Improved Initiative to use Sudden Strike, and never stay in one place for too long. To the second issue: Neither a rogue nor a scout nor a ranger can scout as good as you (if you have well-chosen skills and feats, that is), so use that advantage. Furthermore, when your group encounters an enemy unit, just turn invisible, try to figure out who the officer/supporting spellcaster is and take him out. No arcanist survives a poisoned sudden strike. Hope it helps. Have fun with him (her?)!
Nikku 10-12-06, 01:21 AM	It depends on what it is you're looking to do as a ninja. If you're looking for fighting tricks. I can't really help you much there as I haven't used the Wizard's Ninja class myself. But in general, if your looking for roleplaying aspects to try: Since you mentioned generals and large battles, I'm guessing some type of war type situations? You could infiltrate enemy camps, join with the enemy and arrange for 'things to go wrong' from the inside, other things such as spreading rumors and distrust amongst the troops such as "The enemy general has a bad habbit of killing his entire army if they fail", while it will hurt really hard on say.. a group of commoners forced to be soldiers then the well-trained super section of troops. It's still an idea to consider. Other things, destroying food supplies, sending critical information or working your way higher into the ranks to arrange the eventual final victory by arranging some 'master plan' by having your allies there waiting with the counter strategy. Could also set-up things like paranoia amongst the high ranking generals. Sneak in, drop an obvious symbol of an enemy or 'calling card' to prove you there and then sneak out without doing a thing. Just to show them how weak and futile their defenses are might get things going your way. There are other things you could do if your alignment is in the 'evil' paths, but those are the more obvious ones I'm sure you don't need my advice for. Hope this helps.
Krusk 10-12-06, 05:49 PM	The trick to being good at combat is to make good use of the invisability. Find a target you can sudden strike and target him. round one, invis hit for sudden strike. round two run somewhere else invis sudden strike. repeat. if they bother to chase you around the bttle field the rest of the party can deal with them eailsy. If they dont follow you, your sudden striking adds up to some serious damage. I would suggest a crossbow so you get range, best for running around combat taking potshots at people.
DarkDewDrop 10-12-06, 06:34 PM	Ok thx for the ideas some more would be enjoyed. I loved the more creative stuff like just not doing any thing. Also what would be a few good wepons and equip would help?
Salla 10-12-06, 09:26 PM	First your advantages: You can gain concealment, use poison very effectively (use it! IT DOES NOT MAKE YOU EVIL! only nongood) Actually, it doesn't even do that. Poison use is unaligned in itself, though the purpose to which it is put can alter that significantly. Go, Paladins with knockout darts!
xvthreetwoonevx 10-12-06, 10:44 PM	Throw knives/shuriken. Multiple sudden strikes>one sudden strike, especially when you only have limited uses of invisibility per day. Get somebody to cast a spell on you/get a feat (I know there's one out there...) to negate the concealment your enemies gain, drop a smokestick, and use your move action to hide. Next round, full-round to chuck knives/shurikens. You might want to invest in a single level of Shadowdancer for Hide in Plain Sight, because as a ninja, you want to hide as much as you possibly can. Find something to do with your standard action, perhaps aiding a friend will remaining hidden, then bust out your full-round flurry of knives (Take Rapid Shot and TWF...apply it to your knives/shurikens for mass sudden strike damage.). Even after you run out of invisibility for the day, you should still be able to pull of a decent amount of damage. Being as you can only get in SS damage when they're flat-footed, you might want to invest in some levels in Ghost-Faced Killer. Better to strike them once and kill them, especially if you're going after generals, than to hope to god your sudden strike will deal enough damage to deal with them. A few levels in dread witch (if you can qualify) and you can kill even those immune to fear. Good luck. :)
Keevo_Darkwood 10-13-06, 06:47 AM	Well, the first rule of becoming a better ninja is...not letting others know for sure that you even exist, let alone who you are. *smacks the OP around a bit with a large fish for breaking said rule by way of being the OP of this thread* :P :D :P
Sulaco 10-13-06, 10:49 AM	The key lies in understanding that the purpose of the ninja in modern fiction is to be slaughtered in vast numbers to prove how bad-ass the hero is. ;)
Keevo_Darkwood 10-13-06, 11:00 AM	The key lies in understanding that the purpose of the ninja in modern fiction is to be slaughtered in vast numbers to prove how bad-ass the hero is. ;) Ahhhh....but that only pertains to large groups of ninja. A solitary ninja is, by that same rule, a significant threat to heroes, perhaps even the BBEG. A prime example is in the original Eastman & Laird Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comic books. Shredder himself can (and much of the time, does) beat all 4 Turtles single-handedly, yet his many underlings barely even faze the half-shelled heroes.
DarkDewDrop 10-13-06, 12:46 PM	what book would I find shadow dancer in?
Keevo_Darkwood 10-13-06, 03:13 PM	what book would I find shadow dancer in? That'd be in the DMG. :)
Lenore 10-13-06, 03:20 PM	I hope this isnt a repeat but what about poisoning food supplies for the enemies :pint:
SunTzuWarmaster 10-14-06, 11:00 AM	Steal + Sabotage the enemy. targets include: coffers (enemy isn't happy when not getting paid, if they get more money, steal that too, they are funding _your_ war effort) food+water supply (previously mentioned) horses (one broken leg per horse, start a stampede (then attack or let them run wild), poison) armor (they have straps, they rust/break) weapons (potions to rust/break) tents (soldiers aren't happy without them, a good fire does miracles) entertainment (whatever they use to keep morale up, kill/bribe/capture it/him/her) spellcasters (offer them a way out, to fight for the other side....if they disagree, come back the next night) army (everyone sleeps, cutting throats is dirty but quiet) clerics (holy symbols are a good target) Leaders (subject to demoralization+death, paint their room with your side's calling card, kill the weakest sub-ordinate, then the second weakest....) for most of this list, all you have to have is a good hide/move silently check, sneak in, sabotage, sneak/Dimension Door/Teleport (+/- a good contigency keyword) away.
Melancholy 10-15-06, 03:04 AM	Here's a few things to try tactics-wise... - "Give" the enemy poisoned supplies. Got some ale and rum? Poison it all and send it in front of an approaching army. (Put extra in the rum, the officers will most likely claim it. ;) ) - When you steal those documents, replace them with false ones, or better yet, explosive runes.:evillaugh - Strike at any time. A sleep-deprived general is a lousy general. - An army isn't just made up of soldiers, kill off healers and craftsmen too. (Although that method is a bit evil.) - Randomness is scary, sow discord by striking unpredictably at random foes. - As SunTzu said, get rid of their necessities; food, water, and shelter, in short, anything that makes the enemy comfortable. - Get the enemy diseased, sickness spreads like wildfire in the cramped conditions of an army. - With a good Bluff and Disguise you can move at will in large encampments. - Move fast. Very fast. By staying ahead of enemy alarms you can strike unaware enemies over and over again by rushing through enemy camps. - Officers and Generals all have to meet at some time don't they? Find that time and come bearing gifts. (something explosive) - Most important is to protect your own army against all these tactics, be careful, stay sharp, and don't let the enemy know what's going on until it's to late. That's about all I can think of right know. Good luck with your Ninja, kill off a few officers for me!
Shaggy_Shaggs 10-15-06, 03:35 AM	Always bear in mind that ninja do not show off, ever. A showy ninja is not a ninja, he's a poser and soon to be a corpse. Work as anonymously as you can, disguise and stealth skills are your friends. Don't go into situations over your head hoping to get lucky (you won't) - make plans that incorporate comfortable levels of risk, and execute them with ruthless efficiency. If you ever find yourself tempted to brag about your latest job or your powers to some random barmaid with an incredible rack, leave without a word or commit seppuku immediately, or both. Dirty tricks are your friends, do not work fairly. When in doubt, when it would give you an advantage, cheat. (I'm not advocating breaking the rules of D&D, but any rules of fairness, propriety, alignment, honour, are right out.) It may help you to make for yourself a mantra similar to the mantra of a very successful assassin I played ages ago: "Honour and valour write fine epitaphs, but it's treachery that plants headstones."* *Offtopic side note: Amusingly, that was inscribed on his headstone after his own son turned against him and killed him in his own livingroom.
DarkDewDrop 10-15-06, 11:15 AM	Well I don’t really need to be very concerned about my armies necessities all of them are undead. So the most I worry about is positive energy. My job is mostly to win battles with minimal loss of life. Doing low things arnt above me aslong as the end results are better than having every guys head role.
LiamDeclan 10-15-06, 01:07 PM	Buy yourself a Rat and pull it out in front of people to confer or ask it important questions. Call it Master Splinter and tie a small little staff like stick to its paw. Also buy a Tower shield to wear on your back and make sure an armorsmith makes it almost bowl shaped. Call everyone in your party Donatello, Leonardo, Raphael and Michaelangelo. Hmmm, you might want to save one of those names for yourself or just call yourself Choda-boy. I believe he practiced hamster style though.
katarl 10-15-06, 03:47 PM	Try some jutsu feats (Dragon-we all know what paizo were watching when they wrote it, but we don't care). Tricks like ringing blow (shatter *and* knock on a blow means no wasted ranks in disable device) and hallucinary terrain make you quite deadly. Freedom of Movement is a bit pointless though, since ninja can turn ethereal. If you don't have the magazine to look them up, you can see them at http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/featsform.pl, under 'jutsu'. Good Ninja are played smart, manipulating people is what they do. Also, seppuku is not actually suicide, just stabbing yourself in the gut to make it look like it. Do not tell anyone though. When you get back up they'll assume you're oni (Fools...).
Maekrix_Waere 10-15-06, 08:29 PM	Ok thx for the ideas some more would be enjoyed. I loved the more creative stuff like just not doing any thing. Also what would be a few good wepons and equip would help? Well, you'll want to get magic Items to Increase your AC. ASAP, you'll want to get a Blurstrike Weapon so thet your first strike every round will make your enemies flat-footed for your Sudden Strike. (RotW, +2 Bonus) You should also see about getting spring attack to truly complement that Blurstrike weapon, Being able to hit with a Sudden Strike every round, and then move out of Full-Attack distance is really nice. Also, Get Craft (Poisonmaking). Good people can use poison too, they just don't use it as often and/or use non-lethal poisons.
DarkDewDrop 10-15-06, 09:00 PM	ya im jammin out drow posin like no tomarrow.
Maekrix_Waere 10-16-06, 11:18 PM	ya im jammin out drow posin like no tomarrow. Also, if you plan on making drow poison, I would ask your DM if he can house rule that you can increase the creation DC in order to increase the Fortitude DC, my DM lets me use a Creation DC +5=Fortitude DC +2. It works pretty well at keeping it useful now that we have gotten into higher level creatures. P.S.-Also remember, glass vials filled with Black Lotus Extract (3d6 Con, 3d6 Con, Contact) are your friend. Throwing them at your enemies is always fun. It was also extrodinarily entertaining when we were in a besieged town. One the first half dozen died by contact poison, the rest of the troops gave up trying to use the battering ram. Edit: Oh, also, we increase the price by an amount similar in proportion to the DC. For example, if I increased the Drow Poison from DC 15 to DC 25 (Increasing fortitude by +4), we would use following equation: 25/15*75. Which changes the price to 125g, which makes it take pretty much the same amount of time to make.
DarkDewDrop 10-17-06, 12:03 PM	ok cool I'll do that. O also thair is an argument in my group how long poisen lasts on a weppon or other item.
Maekrix_Waere 10-17-06, 11:04 PM	ok cool I'll do that. O also thair is an argument in my group how long poisen lasts on a weppon or other item. Our House Rules: 5 Hours -1 hour per use, or until used 5 times-1 time per hour. BTW: Those are "Minus" signs, not hyphens.
DwarvinJedi 10-17-06, 11:40 PM	As someone suggested disease is a good way to get rid of soldiers, just get an infected something and infect 1 enemy soldier(or more in case he fights it off) and then have your army retreat letting the disease spread
Maekrix_Waere 10-18-06, 05:28 PM	Now, to answer your question on what advantages a Ninja has over other classes. (BTW, these are all only my opinions, and you might not want to play a ninja like mine.) 1-Running up walls makes it hard for the guards to catch you after some infringement of the law. (Assassination, Stealing, Blowing a big ****ing hole in the city wall while it's besieged, that sort of thing) 2-Ability to go ethreal and make your weapon Ghost strike. You can go ethereal and strike people on the material plane WHILE ethereal, nice for assassinations. 3*-If you haven't been able to tell so far, you almost as good an assassin as the Assassin PrC, only Death Attack makes you slightly lower. Also, ninjas have no alignment restriction. {Holy people should be able to take that PrC too!} 4-Wisdom Bonus to AC=no ACP. And when combined with Greater Ki Dodge, it pretty much means invulnerability for 1 round. 5-Other, Unnamed Ki Powers. 6-Evasion. 7-Trapfinding. 8-Ghost Sight! Problems with the Ninja: 1-No Armour proficency. 2-Not as many skill points as rogue. 3-No Sudden Strike damage when flanking. 4-No IMPROVED evasion. 5-Not many Weapon Proficiencies. Edit: Key: {}=Editor's Note *=Disputable
The_Normal_Anomaly 10-18-06, 08:40 PM	Ahhhh....but that only pertains to large groups of ninja. A solitary ninja is, by that same rule, a significant threat to heroes, perhaps even the BBEG. A prime example is in the original Eastman & Laird Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comic books. Shredder himself can (and much of the time, does) beat all 4 Turtles single-handedly, yet his many underlings barely even faze the half-shelled heroes. Law of Ninja Strength (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Ninja/Laws)
Necropolitan 10-18-06, 08:46 PM	Master the Act of Killing 2000 Times before your target hits the ground. This alone will make you the most feared ninja... next to the guy who can kill you 2001 times before you hit the floor, that is.
Shaggy_Shaggs 10-19-06, 09:46 AM	2-Ability to go ethreal and make your weapon Ghost strike. You can go ethereal and strike people on the material plane WHILE ethereal, nice for assassinations. This doesn't actually work. Being ethereal is not the same as being incorporeal, and Ghost Strike weapons only apply to interaction between corporeal and incorporeal creatures - they don't allow for attacking from one plane to another. Easy mistake to make, the poster spawn for incorporeality is the ghost, and it's also ethereal, and the overlap tends to confuse some people. Edit: Ignore the above. While it is true of Ghost Touch weapons, it is not true of the Ghost Strike class feature.
Dei 10-19-06, 02:59 PM	If you're going to use poisons I'd suggest that rather than using it to go after powerful people (who will quickly get food testers/ spell cleansed food) I'd suggest using less powerful ones on a larger scale. Okay the general's still alive but he can't do much with half his army doubled over with chronic dysentry. Also, the supplies for normal troops will be far easier to gain access to and the less powerful poisons will be much easier to produce on a large enough scale to effect a significant portion of the enemy.
planetouched 10-27-06, 10:35 PM	This doesn't actually work. Being ethereal is not the same as being incorporeal, and Ghost Strike weapons only apply to interaction between corporeal and incorporeal creatures - they don't allow for attacking from one plane to another. Easy mistake to make, the poster spawn for incorporeality is the ghost, and it's also ethereal, and the overlap tends to confuse some people. But the text claerly states that is what the skill is for... My suggestion, is spend a month on the plane of shadows. Nifty ongoing little bonuses.
Shaggy_Shaggs 10-27-06, 10:45 PM	But the text claerly states that is what the skill is for... My suggestion, is spend a month on the plane of shadows. Nifty ongoing little bonuses.Crap, my bad. I got tripped up by the wording ("make your weapon Ghost strike"). AFAIK, there is no "ghost strike" weapon enhancement, the closest equivalent is "ghost touch", which many people claim can allow you to strike between the ethereal and material planes and that isn't an ability of that weapon enhancement at all. Upon review, Ghost Strike the class feature (as opposed to Ghost Strike the nonexistant weapon enhancement) does indeed allow striking from the ethereal plane to the material plane, for some weird reason. My apologies for the bad information.
High Octane 10-28-06, 01:26 PM	Ninjas are rogues with a smidge of monk mixed in. Play it like a rogue with a smidge of monk mixed in.
cog_and_taz 10-29-06, 08:27 AM	Before anyone else says it: take levels in the dread pirate PrC. On a more serious note though, pick up a level of monk( or more), play a warforged with the unarmored body feat and battlefists. Ghost step behind someone and FoB sudden strike with them fists.