Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fuzzypants 06-05-06, 03:11 PM	I'm currently working on a bard as a back-up character for the campaign I'm playing in (not very satisfied with my current character, so may ask to retire her and play this one). I wanted some kind of quirk to force me to take roleplaying a little more seriously, so I said to myself: "Self, why not play a mute bard?" My plan is to use a whiteboard and, rather than talk to the other players, write on it. I worked all the way through on this character and realized that all bard spells require a verbal component. However, the PHB says that it can be music, so that solves that problem there. Plus, this bard will be using a didgeridoo as her musical instrument, and she could likely "speak" through it using breath. Anyway, on to why I'm posting. I've never played a bard before (or been in a party with a bard), so I'm not sure how they function in combat. I imagine this character to only engage in melee if the situation is dire. I see her more as being ranged and a support character (buffing and healing). I don't see her as being very flashy and outrageous, but being more reserved and introverted because of her inability to speak. That makes her a little bit more bookish as well because being a mute means people will likely treat her like she's mentally retarded and/or can't hear. She's a 4th level Human Bard at the moment. Here are her stats: ABILITIES STR 10 DEX 14 CON 11 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA 18 SKILLS Bluff 3 Concentration 7 Decipher Script 6 Diplomacy 3 Gather Information 3 Knowledge (arcana) 7 Knowledge (geography) 6 Listen 7 Perform (didgeridoo) 7 Sense Motive 7 Use Magic Device 7 FEATS (subject to change based on suggestions) Skill Focus (Perform [didgeridoo]) Rapid Reload Magical Aptitude (The weapons I've chosen for her are a masterwork longsword and a masterwork light crossbow.) So you've probably read all this and are wondering "So what?" I'm wondering if there are better ideas for the feat selection. I'm also wondering what spells people think would be most beneficial. My goal is to take levels in the PrC Seeker of the Song in Complete Arcane. The books I have at my disposal are the Book of Exalted Deeds, PHB, DMG and one book from the Complete series. I think I can also use a non-PHB race with DM approval. I'd be interested in races with CHA bonuses. Oh, and this is a 32-point buy. Thanks in advance!
Voldar_Mecorthio 06-05-06, 03:25 PM	Looks good. I like it. Most people say bard is stupid, but it's a supporting player. As long as you have at least 3 other players, you should be good. As for a race with a CHA bonus, I dont know of any standard races, but Asimar has one, but it has a +1 level adjustment. You might want to look into elf subraces, beyond that I'm not really sure.
clarkvalentine 06-05-06, 03:34 PM	Harpo Marx - The prototypical nonverbal bard. :)
AZNsupermarket 06-05-06, 03:49 PM	the only official race without a lvl adjustment and a plus to cha is the spellscale from races of the dragon.
Arbitrary Aardvark 06-05-06, 04:15 PM	Don't do it. For the love of Xiombarg, don't play a mute character. Or at least, don't do it without concurrance of all the other players. Dealing with a mute character can get very tedious for the other players.
hmmmm 06-05-06, 04:18 PM	Don't do it. For the love of Xiombarg, don't play a mute character. Or at least, don't do it without concurrance of all the other players. Dealing with a mute character can get very tedious for the other players. I concur.
fuzzypants 06-05-06, 05:00 PM	Bleh, I knew people would be like "omg, don't do the mute!" In any case, the muteness is trauma-induced so I imagine developing a bond with members of the party could lead to speaking again. I'm not even sure my DM will allow me to a) switch characters and b) play a mute bard, though two out of three of the other players seem fine, if not encouraging, of the concept. As for race, any LA is a no-no (both for the campaign and personally because LA confuses me). So, does anyone have suggestions for feats, spells or even ability scores? I know I want to take "bookish" spells like read magic, comprehend languages and identify. Alter self is really tempting, and I know for sure I want to take cure moderate wounds. Beyond that, I'm not sure.
Darko 06-05-06, 05:09 PM	You HAVE to take Perform (mime), if for nothing else then for comedy value.
KirkBb 06-05-06, 05:10 PM	An idea just occured, why not learn drow sign language? If another player takes the time to learn it then all of the major problems are solved...
fuzzypants 06-05-06, 05:21 PM	KirkBb: I had actually thought about using one of her language slots for Common Sign Language. I'd have to talk to my DM about that. I'm not sure there's an Underdark in this campaign world (homebrew using Dark Sun maps). The languages I had originally chosen for her are Common, Draconic and Ignan. An odd choice, I know, but she's from the desert, so I thought those languages might be interesting and somewhat applicable. I'll likely replace them with something more useful, though (at least Ignan). Darko: lol! If this character wasn't so reserved, I probably would take Perform (mime)! *makes mental note to take that with something really asinine...like a Barbarian*
Solik 06-05-06, 06:15 PM	One thing doesn't make much sense to me -- an introvert who's treated oddly, with 18 CHA? I recognize that CHA consists of more than just good looks and a sharp tongue, but a score that high has to manifest itself somehow -- and strongly. At any rate, there's a feat in the Book of Exalted Deeds that gives a bonus to CHA, but you have to maintain a relationship with a fey to keep it. Actually, making her fey-like is one good way to explain the introvert with high CHA. If you can get your hands on Unearthed Arcana, you can use the Fey Bloodline, which also grants CHA bonuses and more (at the expense of a couple class levels dispersed throughout your career).
loaba 06-05-06, 06:47 PM	One thing doesn't make much sense to me -- an introvert who's treated oddly, with 18 CHA? Yeah, with an 18 CHA, she's about the most likable mute ever. I don't think that mutes necessarily have to be problem characters, I think they can actually be quite interesting if played right. I'm reminded now of Silent, from the Black Company series; he communicated in every way but talking (and was good with ranged weapons too...)
fuzzypants 06-05-06, 07:19 PM	One thing doesn't make much sense to me -- an introvert who's treated oddly, with 18 CHA? I recognize that CHA consists of more than just good looks and a sharp tongue, but a score that high has to manifest itself somehow -- and strongly. I wanted to represent how talented she is as a musician. I originally had CHA 16 (bumped to 17 from 4th level), so that might make more sense. I took the points from WIS, and since she's an introvert and probably seen as perhaps mentally deficient because of her muteness, she would likely be able to pick up on motives, listening, and so on. I'll think about changing that. Fey are actually pretty big in the campaign, so I'll make a note about that feat. Oo, I just had an idea. Amy'l (that's her name) grew up in the desert with a band of nomads. Perhaps they're like desert fey. I'll have to talk to my DM about that. First, I need to find out what he thinks about me changing characters. Thanks for the suggestion, Solik!
Pajaul 06-05-06, 07:30 PM	I always toyed with the idea of having a bard whose throat was slit during an attack on his school. As such he was made an eternal mute, but, he later got a “Ghost Voice” spell (or Magic mouth) spell permancy on him, so instead of him actually talking, he thinks it and a disembodied voice always says what he wants it to say. It will be really disabling for you to have a mute character, because you will have to meta game a great deal. Unless you expect the party to know sign language, but then, what will you do in darkness? Or if they are blinded? Or if you are bound? I always figured the disembodied voice plus a cool neck scar that could be hidden under a scarf was a neat idea. Plus you can always throw in the challenge of dealing with your suppressed ‘voice’ in an anti-magic field. Perform music is a good verbal component for spells, but if you have to attack you can’t be holding an instrument. Unless you got your character to learn Morse code, and taught the party, then got Perform Percussion as your ability… that would be neat. But anyway, that is just a few ideas.
fuzzypants 06-05-06, 07:49 PM	Pajaul: Can you specify what you mean by having to need to metagame a lot? My plan is to actually use a whiteboard to communicate with the party, but that will be a detriment in the situations you described. My hope is that she will eventually be able to reclaim her voice. I'm really hoping my DM will be as excited about this character as I am, and that he'll help me flesh her out more. I wrote a back story, but I really like Solik's idea about the fey. It could also tie Amy'l to another party member. Magic mouth will probably be a spell I'll want to take. In fact, I'm crossing hypnotism off the list and replacing it with magic mouth right now!
Pajaul 06-05-06, 10:01 PM	I initially thought you meant playing like this PC: I hold up a sign that says "Message". but I see you mean having an actual white board. but... The white board, how does that factor in I mean? Does your character have it? and if so, what language is she writing in? and that still doesn't solve the problem of darkness spells, or blindness, or loss of use of hands. (but would be really great for explosive runes!) If you the player use a white board, which is what I think you mean, you will display what you character says through words that everyone will have to stop and read, which can take a while if you have to explain a complicated thing. And it could really drag the game on and make it less fun for you. Plus it would lessen the tension in uh.. tense moments because they have to stop and read. I don't mean to shoot down you idea though, I'm just telling you the negatives I see, though this does not mean I am trying to reflect on you negatively, but I’m trying to show you what could happen. Also, Magic Mouth has limited time use, that is why I suggested permancy, and Ghost Voice, which I am not sure is even a real spell since I saw it mention on the boards and all they have in the PHB is Ghost sounds. Which could work as well I suppose. But anyway, what I meant was I was always toying with the idea, I didn't mean to imply my idea was better, just offer my opinion on the same musing. It is a neat concept, that can be pulled off really well but the roleplay involved and patience of your team mates is paramount for it to work. Still! I'm not trying to discourage you okay? But you have to admit it IS a silly concept if you just think about it literally. Rogue: Alright I'll sneak in from the south and you can sneak in from- Bard: :shocked:.......! Rogue: -the north, I'll be over here so when I give the- Not now bard. Bard: *points frantically, tugs on shirts*:eek:......!! Rogue: -signal you move in and we ambush the center- not now I said! Bard: *Begins jumping up and down on their back*:bigeyes: Rogue: -where we can get the most dama- ALRIGHT, WHAT IS IT ALREADY?! :mad: Bard:*points at massive patrol of orcs coming the party's way*:weep: Party::mymy:....!!!! Bard: *whips out saxophone and begins playing "Yakety Sax" as you're chased* :D
fuzzypants 06-05-06, 10:22 PM	My character has a slate and 100 pieces of chalk. I'm also taking Common Sign Language as a language (providing my DM allows it). There's a party member who knows a ton of languages, and I think she learns a new one every time she levels, so that is also an option. The situations you describe are things any adventurer is going to have to deal with. Magic mouth could work in darkness or whatever in that, she casts it on her clothes or something and has it say "I'm here!" That's just something to overcome. I guess if it's just so horribly detrimental to my group, we'll work it out there. My group tends to roleplay out just translating conversations from one language to another, so I don't think the whiteboard thing will be too time-consuming. I mean, I think we spent 30 minutes last session just repeating sentences three times because they were "translating." I wasn't offended or anything, Pajaul, just asking for clarification. :)
Solik 06-05-06, 10:24 PM	Let me also suggest that you write up Mute as a Flaw. Flaws are a concept introduced in Unearthed Arcana -- they're penalties assigned to characters that allow you to take bonus feats at level 1 (you can only take a flaw at level 1). Flaws are slightly worse than most feats in power, so that overall, you lose just a little by taking them; this is balanced by the fact that you can pick-and-choose the penalty and the bonus feat. Flaws can be overcome later by spending a standard feat on removing them. That gives you a mechanical method to simulate exactly what you're trying to do with your character concept.
AZNsupermarket 06-05-06, 10:27 PM	An idea just occured, why not learn drow sign language? If another player takes the time to learn it then all of the major problems are solved... edit: whoah! didn't know that was a real language!
loaba 06-05-06, 10:54 PM	Let me also suggest that you write up Mute as a Flaw. Flaws are a concept introduced in Unearthed Arcana -- they're penalties assigned to characters that allow you to take bonus feats at level 1 (you can only take a flaw at level 1). Flaws are slightly worse than most feats in power, so that overall, you lose just a little by taking them; this is balanced by the fact that you can pick-and-choose the penalty and the bonus feat. Flaws can be overcome later by spending a standard feat on removing them. That gives you a mechanical method to simulate exactly what you're trying to do with your character concept. Choosing a character flaw, like being mute is one thing, designing a UA Flaw is another thing altogether. I'm not a big fan of trading flaws for crunch. You can work around being mute.
Gedrin 06-05-06, 11:31 PM	A mute Bard, of 4th level, with a Charisma of 12, who could use an instrument in place of verbal components can: Go to the market and present a shopkeeper with a shopping list of 25 items, verbally. Get stopped by the guard on the way home, and automatically announce,"I am mute, but am able to communicate briefly through the use of Bardic magic. If permited, I will answer your questions when asked." Answer a few questions from the guard. Introduce themselves at a performance. Thank the audiance as they depart. ...all in the same day. At seventh level, Sculpt Sound, with a duration of 7 hours, could literally be used to cause a harp to function as a voice synthesizer. The ability to reproduce verbal communication up to 5 times per day, or more, makes mute a fairly minor difficulty in the scheme of things.
fuzzypants 06-06-06, 12:59 AM	A mute Bard, of 4th level, with a Charisma of 12, who could use an instrument in place of verbal components can: Go to the market and present a shopkeeper with a shopping list of 25 items, verbally. Get stopped by the guard on the way home, and automatically announce,"I am mute, but am able to communicate briefly through the use of Bardic magic. If permited, I will answer your questions when asked." Answer a few questions from the guard. Introduce themselves at a performance. Thank the audiance as they depart. ...all in the same day. So this works with the spell magic mouth? Seems like a really good spell to take for a mute bard. If I made it permanent, it would then act as a sort of conduit for Amy'l's speech?
Sikyanakotik 06-06-06, 02:36 AM	Actually, if you made it permanent it would just say the same thing over and over. Not so useful there. And if the muteness is post-traumatic, wouldn't it carry over into the speech-by-proxy the magic mouth gives?
CaoSlayer 06-06-06, 07:07 AM	If you wants to talk without troubles, there is a trick: Use an inteligent item that have telepathy and can talk, so you can talk through him.
fuzzypants 06-06-06, 10:28 AM	There are psions in the party, so there's another way to communicate. My DM said he's okay with me retiring my current character. I sent him my back story on Amy'l, my mechanics goal for her, and lots of things we've discussed in this thread. Now, I will sit on pins and needles with my fingers crossed. Thanks for your help, everyone!
thepsionicbard 06-06-06, 10:53 AM	there was a mute harper named marx in "once around the realms"
fuzzypants 06-06-06, 10:55 AM	there was a mute harper named marx in "once around the realms" Haw haw....Harper Marx. :D
Sereno 06-06-06, 11:05 AM	If you wants to talk without troubles, there is a trick: Use an inteligent item that have telepathy and can talk, so you can talk through him. Can a bard ever get a familiar or animal companion (through spells)? If so, you could get a parrot, and train it to talk for you. "Awwwwk! Wind in the sails!" "Mostly, we think that means 'yes'." :)
fuzzypants 06-06-06, 12:05 PM	Hahaha! That would be awesome. There is a feat called Obtain Familiar in Complete Arcane that allows other arcane spellcasters (so, bards) to summon a familiar.
Sir Knight 06-06-06, 12:33 PM	In our upcomming campaign one of the characters (A Ranger/Fighter Archer type) is going to be mute. I think in the right group it will be a very good thing to roleplay. He's really looking forward to it.
Sereno 06-06-06, 01:01 PM	Hahaha! That would be awesome. There is a feat called Obtain Familiar in Complete Arcane that allows other arcane spellcasters (so, bards) to summon a familiar. That's all you should need, then. Just get a scroll of "Obtain Familiar" and summon yourself a parrot! You'd be able to communicate telepathically with the parrot and tell him what to say, for you (even, at first, if just simple phrases like "Yes/No. Look out! etc.... Later on, you'll be able to use the spells mentioned by other posters (Sculpt Sound) to make your music REALLY do your talking. A mute, digeridoo-playing bard with a parrot! What an awesome character!
fuzzypants 06-06-06, 01:12 PM	I talked with my DM and he likes the concept, but he said the mute thing will be really problematic sometimes. I also noticed that a bard has to sing to use inspire courage. So, I'm going to scrap the mute idea, which opens more room for neater spells. My DM says he has an idea for another campaign where everyone has quirks and oddities, so I'll save the mute idea for another time.
Erak 06-06-06, 01:14 PM	Perform (didgeridoo) 7 I assume you mean Perform (Wind Instruments) 7? There is no real need to confine yourself to one instrument.....just the category.
docballen 06-06-06, 01:17 PM	There is a feat called silent spell that would help a mute cast spells...
Arbitrary Aardvark 06-06-06, 01:26 PM	There is a feat called silent spell that would help a mute cast spells... Except that bards can't use it.
fuzzypants 06-06-06, 01:30 PM	Beat me to the punch, Aardvark. ;)
malignor 06-06-06, 01:32 PM	Message Transmutation [Language-Dependent] Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0 Components: V, S, F Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Targets: One creature/level Duration: 10 min./level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No You can whisper messages and receive whispered replies with little chance of being overheard. You point your finger at each creature you want to receive the message. When you whisper, the whispered message is audible to all targeted creatures within range. Magical silence, 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal (or a thin sheet of lead), or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks the spell. The message does not have to travel in a straight line. It can circumvent a barrier if there is an open path between you and the subject, and the path’s entire length lies within the spell’s range. The creatures that receive the message can whisper a reply that you hear. The spell transmits sound, not meaning. It doesn’t transcend language barriers. Note: To speak a message, you must mouth the words and whisper, possibly allowing observers the opportunity to read your lips. Focus A short piece of copper wire.To cast this spell you need not have a voice. If, however your mute condition is basedon trauma (like you say) it's likely that you just can't bring yourself to speak... which is a different thing altogether. - By "sing" I think they mean perform (some sort of music). I'm pretty sure your DM will agree. - Take at least enough ranks in perform - whistle to use your inspure courage, so you're not screwed if in dire straights. Furthemore, verbal components can be music as well... so give a little whistle!
Antioch 06-06-06, 03:27 PM	Take sign language as one of your language options, and teach it to another character (for a paltry 2 skill points). Since you wont have to learn/teach the written format of a sign language to use it, you can see if your DM will allow it at the cost of only one skill point. Also, if you want to avoid the tedious use of writing materials, presitidigitation is a great way to circumvent that, allowing one hour of quick and easy writing at a time (amongst other uses). Finally, picking up a crappy minor wondrous item that allows free use of prestidigitation for only writing images in the air (say...a magic pen that costs 150gp or less) and you can completely go without any writing materials. Easy way to maintain it without having to bog the party down with pantomimes or frustrations.
Antioch 06-06-06, 03:30 PM	I talked with my DM and he likes the concept, but he said the mute thing will be really problematic sometimes. I also noticed that a bard has to sing to use inspire courage. So, I'm going to scrap the mute idea, which opens more room for neater spells. My DM says he has an idea for another campaign where everyone has quirks and oddities, so I'll save the mute idea for another time. Your DM could always allow you to substitute the use of your instrument (sound) to replace the need for your own voice, thus allowing you to cast bard spells so long as you are playing your instrument rather than actually singing. The same can be applied to using bardic music abilities that necessitate your voice. Easy fix. You could also have your DM allow your instrument to double as a great club (or just a club) for a backup weapon.
Missing Minds 06-06-06, 03:35 PM	I talked with my DM and he likes the concept, but he said the mute thing will be really problematic sometimes. I also noticed that a bard has to sing to use inspire courage. So, I'm going to scrap the mute idea, which opens more room for neater spells. My DM says he has an idea for another campaign where everyone has quirks and oddities, so I'll save the mute idea for another time. Emm... A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use song or poetics to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the bard sing. The phrasing is what gets me. The first line says "a perform skill" If one plays a song with an instrument, one does preform the song. How often has some instrument been a rallying point in movies and such? I can think of a few off the top of my head. Inspire is all about psying your friends up for the combat or what have you. The next line says specifically singing. Why didn't the first line say preform (song) in that case? I think the "spirit of the law" would be any aplicable preform skill but the target must be able to hear the performance. I would honestly ask the DM about it. If he's let you come this far, I don't see why he (or she) wouldn't allow it at all. Its not like it would be game breaking even in the slightest. Also, think your character will try to pick up a kazoo for in city use? I've not seen any... short (1-2 ft long) digeridoos before. (not to say they don't exist)
bholdr_mage 06-06-06, 03:45 PM	You could check out monte cook's unearthed arcana. There's an alternate bard there. Plus, your DM (with a successful perform check that is) may let you inspire without singing. :uh-huh: Well, I think I'm going home to work on an armless fighter. :uh-huh: That was a joke; not to be taken too seriously.
Antioch 06-06-06, 04:00 PM	You could check out monte cook's unearthed arcana. There's an alternate bard there. Plus, your DM (with a successful perform check that is) may let you inspire without singing. :uh-huh: Well, I think I'm going home to work on an armless fighter. :uh-huh: That was a joke; not to be taken too seriously. That could work! Using the feat trees from PH and PH2 and modified magic items (+5 boots) you could dish out some decent damage. You could also use blade boots from FRCS to have an actual weapon, though it requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
fuzzypants 06-06-06, 04:04 PM	Naw, I'm okay with dropping the mute bit. I wasn't married to it, I just wanted something that might force me to take roleplaying a bit more seriously. In any case, my character was once mute. I'm reworking her back story a bit to say why she isn't anymore. The PrC I'm aiming for is Seeker of the Song, and one of the requirements is that you must have heard another seeker of the song use one of their seeker abilities -- for exposure to the primal song. In the original back story, Amy'l had encountered a bard who inspired her to take on the bard's lifestyle -- the traveling, the music, and so on. I've altered it so that she hears him using a seeker ability, and she's so moved by the primal song that she regains her voice. Now, she will have a deep desire to uncover the primal song for herself and to pay homage to it for the gift it gave her. I'm tempted to just post the whole back story, but I'm longwinded. As you can see by my posts. :)
AaronDireBear 06-07-06, 10:36 AM	Is your DM going to let you substitute music for verbal components?
fuzzypants 06-07-06, 12:43 PM	I think he would have had a decided to go with the mute theme, at least where spells are concerned. The PHB does state that music can be used as a verbal component. Where it gets tricky is if her hands aren't free, her instrument isn't available, and so on.
Zaku 06-07-06, 12:49 PM	If he/she had a panpipe or harmonica this problem could be eliminated.